Since the whole place is already erupted, what new eruption's are they concerned about? Unless they, Iran/Syria, are going to cause one. They have some kind of a trick up their sleeves...

Posted by: duh_swami at July 8, 2007 4:05 PM

How can any sane person ever logically understand the mindless killer mentality of islamists? We have been hearing for some time of some big plan for a war with Israel for some time. Well its July 7th, is Iran getting more brave or just cheap talk?

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at July 8, 2007 4:16 PM

Uh, am I alone in my bewilderment? Confused, as to whether the Lebanese government is Hizbollah controlled, and therefore the 'Lebanese opposition is who the West should root for, or what??

I root for Israel. And I root for non-Iranian-backed Syrian forces threatening Lebanon, that much I remember.

Hell, I don't have a current scorecard for Lebanon.

Posted by: localmalcontent at July 8, 2007 4:18 PM

Say Whut??/i>

now that's confused! I support the Christian, multicultural Lebanese government, not ANYTHING Syrian or Iranian-supported, I tried to say....
(you know that!)

Posted by: localmalcontent at July 8, 2007 4:25 PM

What is this - a choice between Iranian partisans and Syrian partisans? What's the difference?

One might as well be choosing between Hamas and Fatah in the West Bank or between the Sunnis and the Shia in Iraq.

Let the volcano that is Lebanon erupt. The Iranians and Syrians have been nurturing it for more than two decades. May both be caught in the lava flow. (Please President Bush, send no "peacekeepers"!!!!)

Posted by: PMK at July 8, 2007 4:39 PM

Slightly OT, but important:

How much more must we let Iran get away with?

In 1979, Iran got off scot free after taking US hostages and holding them for 444 days. Carter did nothing except whimper like a puppy that had just been kicked. Now the Iranians hated the Soviet Union every bit as much as they hated the US, but why didn't they storm the Soviet Embassy and take Soviet hostages? Andrei Gromyko told us why in no uncertain terms: the Soviet Union would have declared war on Iran and destroyed that embryonic theocracy within days, nipping in the bud so many future problems in the process, and the Iranian theocrats were clever enough to realise that. They knew Brezhnev, despite the fact that he was ailing and had little time to live, wasn't Carter.

What we have seen throughout the last 28 years, and for the foreseeable future, is Carter's legacy. This has been the price of weakness, and weakness is how the theocrats view restraint, because restraint isn't a word that exists in Islamic doctrine. Carter's spinelessness is the Iranians enduring image of the US and the West. Every liberal utterance in the West is proof of our weakness to the nutjobs who rule Iran with a rod of iron. And how else can the Iranians view us when they have been behind the following, either directly or through their proxies, and suffered no consequences:

The US Embassy hostage crisis in 1979-81.

And through its Hezbollah proxy, the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks at Beirut Airport which killed 241 US Marines, and the kidnapping of most of the 15 American hostages held in Lebanon between 1984 and 1991.

And against Israel, we saw the March 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, which killed 29 people. In March 1994, three Iranian agents were arrested in Thailand after an abortive attempt to detonate a truck bomb at the Israeli Embassy in Bangkok. And Iranian involvement is also suspected in the July 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires that killed 96 people.

And that isn't the end. Iranian-backed Hizbollah rained 4,000 rockets down on Israel last year, whilst Iranian bombs take their toll of Coalition soldiers in Iraq and now Afghanistan. Iranians murdered five US soldiers only a couple of months ago, and Iran continues to equip Hizbollah for their next round with Israel, not to mention its stream of threats, nay promises, to nuke Israel and create yet another Holocaust.

These would certainly have been viewed as acts of war by a confident West, which had a population determined to put all of this to a stop. But a confident West with that sort of population last existed in the 1950s, and the Iranians know it. Today we are too squeamish to squash our enemies flat. In our inverted thinking brought on by political correctness, we think the lives of their civilians and militia are more important than the lives of our own civilians or troops. As Winston Churchill said back in 1933, "The worst difficulties from which we suffer do not come from without. They come from within. They do not come from the cottages of the wage-earners. They come from a peculiar type of brainy people always found in our country, who, if they add something to its culture, take much from its strength. Our difficulties come from the mood of unwarrantable self-abasement into which we have been cast by a powerful section of our own intellectuals. They come from the acceptance of defeatist doctrines by a large proportion of our politicians ....". And he is right. Defeatism has been transported from the university campuses to the halls of power, and it shows. All manner of lawyers, journalists and human rights activists work to make the lives of terrorists and the states who support them that much easier. They pull apart countries like Israel if they act in self-defence, and peddle Jihadi propaganda. The conduct of the BBC etc has been shameful over the last decade, culminating in its disgraceful coverage of Hizbollah's bombardment of Northern Israel and the Israeli response. It has become the mouthpiece of terrorism, and nothing was better exemplified than the recently-released BBC hostage Alan Johnston telling his captors that he was on their side. We can certainly believe that.

And the window of opportunity for dealing with Iran narrows with every passing day. They are likely to have their first functioning nukes within two years, and a delivery system not long after. Given the nature of that regime, should we wait another two, three or four years to do something, just like with Nazi Germany in 1935? If we have any sense, the answer should be a resounding No!

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at July 8, 2007 4:55 PM

The "eruption" they're referring to is the all-out war expected...it was delayed for a couple reasons.

-Israel releasing their fellow terrorists in time to retrain them for further/resumed attacks...

-UN security council meeting July 16th, & if they attacked beforehand, they look like the terrorist attackers they actually are...so they waited...

-iranian logistical problems via their gas rationing & fuel problems causing riots...ooops, I mean "internal security" problems, & blowing up in their own face, forcing their pause to divert troops within first before they can deploy more without.

-arab league pulling another "peace" charade towards Israel (as if) so they want that to play out (making themselves look like the "peaceful" folks they're anything BUT-so when it all goes south-they think they look exonerated)...total trojan horse scam.

-USS Enterprise battle group setting sail tomorrow for the ME, 3 groups worries the "land of the aryans" (which is what "iran" actually MEANS- BIG clue) since it exceeds combined durkastani air forces.

-forced regrouping since several of their planned terrorist hits either failed totally, or failed to attain the psychological effect intended-and/or actually backfired.

-knowledge that western forces are well familiar with their impending tet offensive (which is anything BUT "mini-"), have the means to fight back, and are no longer giving details about military plans/operations to the terrorists #1 intelligence source and ever-faithful ally in their unholy alliance- our own press.

Nothing really difficult about this one...it's coming, and nothing will stop that-it's been in the works by them for a very long time.

Posted by: jcom972 at July 8, 2007 5:01 PM

In late Sept 1973, Soviet dependents and non-essential personnel were surreptitiously evacuated from Egypt. US intelligence made the absurd deduction that this was another sign of the continuing deterioration in Soviet-Egyptian relations (Sadat had expelled the majority of Soviet advisers the previous year). What should have been a tale-tell indicator that this was NOT the case was the fact that Soviet dependents were simultaneously being withdrawn from Syria, where no such patron-client schism existed. The Yom Kippur War began shortly thereafter, catching both Israel and America unawares.

One hopes policy-makers in Washington are preparing for possible contingencies right now in Lebanon. Are we going to prevent the overthrow of the Sinora government? If so, how far are we willing to go in that regard?

Posted by: Cornelius at July 8, 2007 5:15 PM

Tks, Spirit Of 1683. That ruthless "back at you" angle played by the Russians is what they truly respect most. Seems like we haven't employed those type of tactics since Gen. Pershing.

Posted by: We need G.C. Scott at July 8, 2007 5:26 PM

After what has recently happened in Gaza,is anyone surprised by this reporting coming from Lebanon?

I heard a former top level intel officer say(in couched terms) that Iraqs WMD's are buried in the Bekka valley. (no great secret) But he did say Iran CURRENTLY has a missle with a nuclear warhead trained on Tel Aviv courtesy of Putin. Wonder if Bush and Putin chatted about this between fishing trips in maine?

Posted by: guide inside at July 8, 2007 6:12 PM

One hopes policy-makers in Washington are preparing for possible contingencies right now in Lebanon. Are we going to prevent the overthrow of the Sinora government? If so, how far are we willing to go in that regard?

Posted by: Cornelius

Should we give a hoot? Hezbollah is still Hezbollah.

Posted by: PMK at July 8, 2007 6:29 PM

Wonder what was said to Putin from Bush and vice versa, wouldnt you love to be a fly on the wall for that one!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at July 8, 2007 6:31 PM

Spirit of 1683,

I thought the Lebanese took at least one Russian, after kidnapping many American, British and French personnel in Beirut.

They hadn't gotten the word that Soviets were off-limits but someone wised them up and the man was freed within one to two days.

Posted by: PMK at July 8, 2007 6:33 PM

PMK: "Should we give a hoot? Hezbollah is still Hezbollah."

RESPONSE: Not sure I understand your question. Hezbollah is threatening to set up a rival government. Should we help save Sinora and his alliance of Christians and Muslim moderates, or should we not "give a hoot" and let Hezbollah take over Lebanon?

Me thinks we should give a helluva hoot.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 8, 2007 7:07 PM

ZenaWarriorPrincess-

PARTIAL ROBO-FLY TRANSCRIPT, KENNEBUNKPORT, ME.-

BUSH- Do ya'll dip your lobster in butter like we do, Pooty?

PUTIN- We usually dip them in ice cold vodka to anesthetize them before we boil them. (Pause) More vodka, Georgy?

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 8, 2007 7:57 PM

Posted by PMK: "...I thought the Lebanese took at least one Russian, after kidnapping many American, British and French personnel in Beirut..."

Correct. The soviet's GRU found out who the islamists kidnappers were. Soviet's GRU then kidnapped a relative of one of the islamokidnappers and sent an identifying body part to those holding the soviet hostage with a promise to continue to send more body parts from same relative until their comrade was released. The islamonazis repsonded very quickly by releasing the soviet hostage and no other attempts on soviets were made.
Interesting how that worked...

Posted by: TINBH at July 8, 2007 8:10 PM

Cornelius,
I beg to differ. You're assuming that we can come to the aid of the Sinora government and that will be enough to help them reclaim their land.
Hezbollah has been there for a quarter century. They don't recognize any law and order other than their own. They've set up their own charities, hospitals, governing infrastructure. They attack Israel from southern Lebanon. Sinora's government will do nothing to change that. How do we help them? By bringing in our Marines to serve as peacekeepers? Been there, done that.
We can't do anything in the Muslim world because groups like Hezbollah and Hamas will paint anyone who cooperates as an infidel.
Surely you realize that elections mean squat in Lebanon unless Hezbollah is turned to dust. Is Sinora's government willing to kill them? Would the Shia stand still for it?
There is no unity in Lebanon. Sinora's is an elected government, but the power remains with Hezbollah and Iran, until the Sunnis and Christians decide they are willing to vanquish them. I say this because Hezbollah will not give up power. They will never accede to Sinora's authority. Power is what they crave. It's what their faith calls for. They can't work with Christians who, to them, represent the Great Satan. Is Sinora willing to go into southern Lebanon and stop the attacks on Israel? I doubt it. What's the point in "helping" him? Why should we care who wins? Sunni or Shia? Heads or tails? It's still the same coin - ISLAM.

Posted by: PMK at July 8, 2007 9:25 PM

GOLAN HEIGHTS – If Israel doesn't vacate the strategic Golan Heights before September, Syrian guerillas will immediately launch "resistance operations" against the Golan's Jewish communities, a top official from Syrian President Bashar Assad's Baath party told WND.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56567

Curious isn't it? Olmert offered to give back the Golan Heights with no strings attached a month ago, and Assad never responded. Now this?

The Baath official, who spoke on condition his name be withheld, said Damascus is preparing for anticipated Israeli retaliation following Syrian guerilla attacks and for a larger war with the Jewish state in August or September. He said in the opening salvo of any conflict, Syria has the capabilities of firing "hundreds" of missiles at Tel Aviv.

No doubt Hizballah and Hamas will be the actual trigger people; wonder if rage boy will be there?

Syria passed repeated messages to the U.S. that we demand the return of the Golan either through negotiations or through war. If the Golan is not in our hands by August or September, we will be poised to launch resistance, including raids and attacks against Jewish positions (in the Golan Heights)," the Baath official said.

And we wonder why the USS Enterprise battle group setting sail tomorrow for the ME?

Why am I not surprised?

Terror group leader Khaled Mashaal overjoyed, says Gaza exit constitutes important turning point in Palestinian-Israeli conflict. ‘Resistance is our strategic choice, we won’t put down our weapons,’ he says

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3128119,00.html

Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map

http://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=15816

We don't believe any of this because ... why?

Posted by: witness at July 8, 2007 9:56 PM

and now Al-Qaeda in Iraq has given Iran two months to cut off it's support of Iraq or face attack.
Are we having fun yet?

Posted by: duh_swami at July 8, 2007 10:27 PM

From PMK

"I thought the Lebanese took at least one Russian, after kidnapping many American, British and French personnel in Beirut. They hadn't gotten the word that Soviets were off-limits but someone wised them up and the man was freed within one to two days

Not quite. After the kidnapping , the KGB couldn't find the ringleaders........so........the KGB kidnapped a family member - a brother i think - of the group holding the Soviet diplomats, cut his nuts off , stuck them in his gob and dumped the body in the street. THEN the Soviet diplomat was released.

Compare that with Dubya , who , after 911 allowed Bin Ladens family to leave the US and then called Islam the "religion of peace"

Once a drug taking hippie coward always a........

Posted by: ewha1 at July 8, 2007 11:00 PM

I can tell you easily why no response by ass-ad to the no-strings golan offer.
Psychology & the islamist mindset:

-It would completely deflate their hate-filled pahblum, eliminating their "cause"...

-It would give the Israelis the one thing in the arab world the one thing the islamofascists canNOT afford to let happen-that of Israeli generosity.
To them "apes and pigs" don't do such a thing...

-for ass-ad to accept it would be a complete and total slap in the face, not only to his own captive audience, but to the entire mOslem world.
It would make him look like Sadat-considered a pariah-a "traitor" to the islamofascist racket...

In other words, anything short of taking it by force would not only collapse the Israeli-palestinian issue (which they perpetuate), it would cause such a schizm within the power & control racket known as ISLAM that they would never recover...all without us in the western world firing a shot.
It's not about peace...it's about extermination.
(glad ya brought that up, witness)
...and this is nothing short of an ultimatum-and a prelude-to an all-out war.

Things are gonna get pretty hot between now & Yom Kippur (Sept. 22 if memory serves me correctly), which is also the 40th year since their grand "catastrophe" of '67.

Posted by: jcom972 at July 8, 2007 11:00 PM

It's not about peace...it's about extermination.
(glad ya brought that up, witness)
...and this is nothing short of an ultimatum-and a prelude-to an all-out war.

Yup, thats the way I see things too.

Things are gonna get pretty hot between now & Yom Kippur (Sept. 22 if memory serves me correctly), which is also the 40th year since their grand "catastrophe" of '67.

Sure looks that way -- could start next week?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3422565%2C00.html

Fill up on gas this week; I see a price hike at the pump coming real soon.

Posted by: witness at July 8, 2007 11:14 PM

PMK,

There are 1 million Christians in Lebanon whom you are potentially consigning to either exile or oblivion with your attitude of imperviousness. Furthermore, the Muslim component of the conflict is not simply Sunni vs Shia; the former are largely sovereigntists who actually care about their Lebanon, the latter, agents of Iran and Syria.

To say it doesn't matter who rules Lebanon (or Iraq for that matter) is a simplistic, reductionist approach to very complex geo-political questions. I can understand the position that US forces shouldn't be introduced into any impending Lebanese Civil war, but to suggest we should remain ompervious to the outcome and just turn the country over to Syria is the kind of policy that would make a liberal Democrat proud.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 9, 2007 1:46 AM

Sounds right! All those prisoners just let go in Gaza! Still not a mention of the Israeli soldier!
They keep making it inch by inch, step by step!
What do we get in any package deal? Keep paying Lebanon, Syria all them Not to attack Israel?
That really worked for awile! I have no faith in the system! It is now the will of the people!
Which I will the government to do something.....
Add this to the UN people that have been killed recently there too. It has been brewing for some time, they are moving in and for sure their intent,,, is to wipe Israel off the map! Why Olmert seems to go along with this? Acting like the American government! If we kiss there ass!

I love reading all the blogs, God you people blow me away how intelligent you are. Rather, how unintelligent I am. Didn't get schooling. Try to learn as much as I can on my own, I guess.
Dang though you people are so impressive!
You will not read this good stuff on no lefist site. There is no intelligents there. Only distortion and their own views of ..there is no point to what they are saying. So many times, I will read something and want to say something that is written so good...! I think people like Robert is a blessing! Just as my Rev-grandpa. He loved so much, people. The book he wrote took him his life time. I use to look at my grandpa and just could not imagine the wisdom inside his head!
I loved to sit at his feet and talk. Mainly questions. He loved it. He knew everything.
He said we are the ONLY people in this whole galaxy! That is how intricate God made us!

Posted by: MZ at July 9, 2007 4:40 AM

Yup, 1683

In 1979, Iran got off scot free after taking US hostages and holding them for 444 days. Carter did nothing except whimper like a puppy that had just been kicked. Now the Iranians hated the Soviet Union every bit as much as they hated the US, but why didn't they storm the Soviet Embassy and take Soviet hostages? Andrei Gromyko told us why in no uncertain terms: the Soviet Union would have declared war on Iran and destroyed that embryonic theocracy within days, nipping in the bud so many future problems in the process, and the Iranian theocrats were clever enough to realise that. They knew Brezhnev, despite the fact that he was ailing and had little time to live, wasn't Carter

Yup, Carter whimped out big time. Mind you Raegan - Iran Contra - Clinton - working with Iran in Bosnia- and Dubya - handing Iraq on a plate to the Iranians - have all screwed up big time vis a vis the Iranians.

When asked what would've happened had it been SU diplomats held in Iran , a Soviet diplomat talked about nuclear weapons and Iran being turned into glass......whether or not they'd have actually pressed the button, Iran would've been blasted back to the stone age. And maybe some relatives of the Iranian leadership would've spent the last moments of their lives choking on their own dicks.

Posted by: ewha1 at July 9, 2007 5:59 AM

...their withdrawel will prevent them from becoming human shields...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 9, 2007 7:57 AM

Cornelius,
We turned Lebanon over to Syria two decades ago.
I ask again: what do you want us to do?

We can't go in with the military and "occupy" them.

The bully pulpit is just a lot of hot air. We can talk with Sinora all we want. It means squat.

Israel tried to retaliate for the strikes against it and was condemned by Christian Lebanese. They are the only ones who can fight this war. We can't. Please explain what you think we in the US should be doing to help them beyond voicing support for Sinora. That and a transit pass will get you a ride on the subway.

Bring all the Christians to the US? I'm for that only if we would be allowed to send an entire extended family back to Beirut if even one of them suddenly turns into a Muslim jihadist.

Truth is not simplistic.

Posted by: PMK at July 9, 2007 8:11 AM

Cornelius,
There are Sunni Muslims everywhere who are "nationalistic" - the "nation of Islam". They care about Lebanon all right. Once it's theirs they set their sights on other targets, like the nation to the south. The Sunnis also condemned Israel's bombing of Beirut. They care about Lebanon but what makes you think they would do anything to unseat Hezbollah in the south? They'll never gain control of the government. They'll forever remain a minority. What makes you think they want good relations with anyone who supports Israel?

Posted by: PMK at July 9, 2007 8:19 AM

PMK: "We turned Lebanon over to Syria two decades ago. I ask again: what do you want us to do? We can't go in with the military and "occupy" them.
The bully pulpit is just a lot of hot air. We can talk with Sinora all we want. It means squat."

RESPONSE:

1) We can assist the Sinora government and anti-Syrian forces throughout Lebanon with military and economic aid.

2) We can - with the aid of our European friends (and France is certainly with us on this issue) - isolate Damascus diplomatically and economically.

You seem to have fallen into the trap of seeing all Muslims as identical, that it matters not one iota who controls what in the Muslim world. This is hardly fidelity to your insistence that "truth is not simplistic." It negates our ability to exploit differences in the Muslim world, some of which are acute. Most importantly, it concedes the battle for civilization within Darul Islam, which is a profound strategic mistake.

There are Muslims fighting and dying alongside Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are quite different from those trying to kill Americans. An inability to discern this reality is telling.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 9, 2007 9:20 AM

I belivie Syria has Chemical warheads for it's Missels. Syria needs to pay a heavy price if thay use them.

Posted by: Ruebacca at July 9, 2007 9:53 AM

Cornelius,
They give me no way to tell them apart. Both continue to call us the great satan. Both are united in one desire: the elimination of all other faiths. They say it on their own media each and every week.

We can't just send a stockpile of weapons over because we have no guarantee whose hands they will end up in. Military aid then becomes "occupation" or the people we send over become targets for terrorism and the government is automatically discredited for "working with infidels". How many more weapons do you want to see on the streets of the Middle East?

Why is it up to us to prop up a Sunni Muslim government? There are Sunni Arab states with a lot of money. The price of oil keeps rising. Let the Saudis and Kuwaitis give some of their oil revenues to their brothers in Lebanon instead of using it to preach jihad across the West. The problem is when they do use it they are usually aiding jihadists. We are already giving the ME plenty of money in all forms without sending more. It's time for them to put it to better use than in preaching hatred of the West. Their message has finally gotten through - to me.

Friends in Europe? Get real!
The Europeans (not Muslims - EUROPEANS) consider the US the greatest threat to world peace. And you want us to give another Muslim government military aid? It's imperialist and hegemonic America all over again - I can hear it now.

The French can do something concrete that will actually cost them money before I trust them again after the oil-for-food scam and the way the sanctions were violated. Sarkozy must prove himself FIRST.

I'm done trying to buy the loyalty of Muslims who claim to be peaceful. We've been doing that since 1979. NO MORE. If they're so damn peaceful then let them prove it.

This is the result of almost three decades of being lied to by Muslims all over the world and watching most (not all - so please JWers don't feel offended. I'm not accusing you.) Europeans sit back and watch while America and Britain did the work and they reaped the benefits.

What makes you think that a Sinora-led Muslim government will not work with Hezbollah? They're all Lebanese. Hezbollah has seats in the parliament. As progressive says: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They have more that unites them than divides them.

The individual peaceful Muslim doesn't mean that the society is peaceful. You cannot discern that. That is YOUR problem. There are people fighting and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan and those same people also think we are occupying their lands. They want us out. They see nothing wrong with suicide attacks against infidels. Peaceful they are not. They are simply doing what anyone, Muslim or not, would do. Bide their time and go along to get along until the opportunity presents itself to seize power.

The proof of that is right here in the US. (I'll leave Britain out of this, lest it offend someone.) Dearborn and Detroit, Michigan. Peaceful until they gain strength in numbers enough to press for sharia courts and the right to call for prayer on the public streets at all hours of the day.
Taxi drivers. Attain critical mass in an airport system and you try to force managers to set up separate lines so Muslim cabdrivers won't have to pick up people carrying alcohol. You end up with footbaths in an airport where there is no logical need for them. The airport is not at a beach.

Trust has been broken. It will not be repaired unless and until Muslims do something on their own without condemning the US and without holding their hands out. How many times must we reach out and take their hand only to be kicked in the shin?

Posted by: PMK at July 9, 2007 10:45 AM

"I belivie Syria has Chemical warheads for it's Missels. Syria needs to pay a heavy price if thay use them.

Posted by: Ruebacca "

....yep ...got them from Sadaam Hussein as he was trying to hide them from the UN weapons inspectors....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 9, 2007 1:39 PM

PMK,

Your inability to ascertain any difference between the Sinora gov't, composed of moderate Sunnis, Christians and Druze....and Hezbollah, a fanatical terrorist movement doing the bidding of the Ayatollahs, betrays an appalling absence of discernment.

Even if we confine your argument to Muslims (an argument that does not fit the Lebanese paradigm), it remains a lame one. What you are postulating is that for example the Tunisian gov't and society and the Iranian gov't and society are indistinguishable as they relate to the West since both are Muslim...when in fact profound differences exist between them, with important sociological and security ramifications.

You've succumbed to the simplistic world-view that all Muslims are the same. It's a recipe for failure in this struggle for civilization.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 9, 2007 11:29 PM

Cornelius Some fine points. I don't believe in sending any troops which will end in just another quagmire - especially with the clowns we have in charge - at the same time, as you pointed out, when it comes to the MB, we'd best remember we have many "allies" amongst the Arab nationalist gov'ts who have even greater hatred for the Muslim Brotherhood. The many millions of Infidels in these countries would be decimated with an al-ikhwān gov't.

And let's be honest here, the Alawite gov't -for instance - have been a far more implacable oponent of the MB than have many / most Western gov'ts - See Bush calling for an EFFIN' dialogue with these nutf*&*ks and the UK and Germany letting countless 1,000 stay in their country

Posted by: ewha1 at July 10, 2007 5:01 AM

EWHA1,

Thanks for the input.

I certainly agree that Bush is myopic and moronic in his attempts to legitimize the Muslim Brotherhood.

I disagree with your over-all assessment of Damascus. While Hafez Assad did indeed wage war upon the MB (the slaughter at Hama, 1980), he and his son have wholeheartedly supported other fanatical Islamist groups such as Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ, and now AQI.

Syrian society is a totalitarian nightmare, but at least it is ordered along secular lines. This is certainly preferable to stonings and amputations, but by how much? People are still detained and tortured without due process. And the regime's foreign policy is as militant as any in the region. Having said all that, I don't subscribe to the argument that Assad is automatically a preferable alternative to what may come after him.

PMK is right about one thing: his assessment of Muslim immigration. There is no way to ascertain the ideological and behavioral proclivities of individual Muslims. That's why a moratorium on Muslim immigration is indispensable for the survival of the West (though one will never be instituted in this age of political correctness).

But basic intelligence can easily ascertain the proclivities of various Muslim groups and governments. To suggest that Sinora is no different than Hezbollah...that Tunisia is no different than Iran...that Karzai (for all his shortcomings) is no different than the Taliban, again, betrays an appalling ignorance.

Posted by: Cornelius at July 10, 2007 10:15 AM

“Bring all the Christians to the US? I'm for that only if we would be allowed to send an entire extended family back to Beirut if even one of them suddenly turns into a Muslim jihadist.”

What a stupid thing to say. Certainly you can’t say you are happy that the Christians lost Lebanon in their war against the Islamic fascists, at a cost to them of nearly a million lives and countless ancient property. And certainly you don’t mean Lebanon will be better off with no Christians and in the control of Nazi Syria and Iran.

It is the very hands-off approach you speak of that caused Lebanon to fall into the hands of Syria, and Hisballs. It was the stupid narrow sightedness of Western politicians, and Islamic propaganda that convinced Westerners the Lebanese civil war of 1970-1990 was a local matter. It is not! It is an attack on Western interests and values by Islamic fascist countries, and this means a lot of countries.

Posted by: ofcourse at July 10, 2007 12:36 PM

Thanks Cornelius"He and his son have wholeheartedly supported other fanatical Islamist"

TRUE

"And the regime's foreign policy is as militant as any in the region"

TRUE

"PMK is right about one thing: his assessment of Muslim immigration"

TRUE

Surely the Syrians can be tempted away from Iran's orbit. After all they have bugger all idealogy in common: one is secular -indeed Alawites aren't even muslims according to most muslims - whilst the Iranians are........rabid nutters?

They're in bed with Iran for realpolitik reasons. They're in a tough part of the world and they need a big scary brother to help them.

Isolating Iran and stopping the arming of Hezbollah would be a great reward for a bit of nimble diplomacy. Garrantee Assad Jr and his cronies a quiet time, even soften them by sending back to Syria all the MB member who are holed up in Western countries. And if we ask really nice , they might put on youtube the videos of Assads boys torturing the bastards to death.

It's win win all round folks

As naughty as the Assad regime is, the only alternative is a Muslim Brotherhood bloodbath and to be honest, I wouldn't give the large Infidel population a chance in hell if that happens.

Posted by: ewha1 at July 12, 2007 1:03 AM

i fell bad for the people of Iran and Syria. the people that governed their country do harm them. thier beliefs are insane. all they care about are thier own interests and stupid acts. they really never care for thier people to live normal life. they use thier religion to rage thier hatred to thier so called enemies.in fact thier religion is love and prosperity. they are not true son of God as they claim.

Posted by: just at July 12, 2007 4:13 AM