Is he "cherry picking, taking things out of context"? He has to be.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at July 16, 2007 7:04 PM

As detainees, Muslims will say anything to the Infidel, to get released. And then it will be back to the Jihad, as allah commanded.

My oh my, will this Major be surprised, when these detainees are killed in a future coalition operation.

Posted by: DP111 at July 16, 2007 7:08 PM

Apparently this gentleman is a major GENERAL - the rank typically associated with command of a Division. If he believes what he is saying ( I personally never doubt what a jar-head says) he is very scary indeed.

Posted by: MP at July 16, 2007 7:16 PM

Greetings:

Here's how the POW calculus was explained to me:

1) You don't ever want to fight someone twice;

2) Some POWs have useful information;

3) Resources are consumed by the capture, relocation and
detention of POWs.

I'll do the math.

Posted by: 11B40 at July 16, 2007 7:19 PM

Man, I started reading the Koran and then I came here.

Posted by: payingattention at July 16, 2007 7:39 PM

Hmmm....does he also read Pollyanna when he isn't reading the Qur'an?

Posted by: champ at July 16, 2007 7:40 PM

Does he actually read the koran? its scary he does not really understand what he is reading.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at July 16, 2007 7:43 PM

He should read "Blogging the Qur'an" on Hotair.
He needs some helpful interpretation from an expert before he goes down the Rosy Path. You know, the one leading to conversion and jihadville.

Posted by: jewdog at July 16, 2007 7:44 PM

He is so right. They will all become Unitarians now.

Posted by: desertdawg29palms at July 16, 2007 7:53 PM

He's probably reading the few good verses and cherry-picking them. He also didn't mention whether he uses hadiths and tafseers to compliment that, implying that he doesn't.

He should write a DIY book once he's done. ;-)

Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 16, 2007 7:54 PM

HURRAH!!!!

The war is won.

A Major General's approach to defeating Jihad

Step 1) Obtain copy of Koran.

Step 2) Find naughty and mischievous Jihadist

Step 3) Open book at random

Step 4) Read excerpt with loud booming voice until Jihadist becomes a Wisconsin Lutheran

Step 5) Hold hands with reformed naughty boy, hug and sing "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing". Try to hold back the tears and put on inane grin.

HURRAH!!!

Posted by: ewha1 at July 16, 2007 8:13 PM

"He is so right. They will all become Unitarians now."

They will indeed desertdawg29palms. And with leaders like this in charge we wonder why most of Baghdad is out of control.

Hey, maybe the Yank troops don't need guns anymore. Just give 'em copies of the Koran.

Posted by: ewha1 at July 16, 2007 8:17 PM

Wouldnt that be like giving copies of Mein Kampf to deter Nazism?

Posted by: Elric66 at July 16, 2007 8:32 PM

He must be using the Reader's Digest Condensed Version of the Koran.

Posted by: atheling at July 16, 2007 8:40 PM

A U.S. Major General stationed in Iraq, a devout Christian, reads quotes from the Qur'an to jihadist prisoners.

And the result is that the jihadists accept the interpretation of a blaspheming polytheist (assuming he believes that Jesus is the son of God), and a leader of an army of infidel kafirs who have invaded and defiled Muslim lands, over the interpretation of Iraqi Muslim clerics who have studied the Qur'an and hadiths their entire lives.

C'mon, this bit of tragicomedy has to be from The Onion.

Posted by: special_guest at July 16, 2007 8:55 PM

The logic is simple, he says. If detainees read the Koran themselves, they will be better equipped to challenge extremists who deliberately misinterpret the religious text to justify jihadist campaigns. (from the General)

I'm confused. Are these not Jiahdists that he is detaining? It reminds me of the Private Ryan flick when the German detainee kept talking about baseball so he could win the confidence of the GI's. Eventually a GI blew him away. He must be the laughing stock of the stockade when he turns his back. He is reading the Cliff note version authorized by CAIR.

Posted by: Briars at July 16, 2007 9:03 PM

The problem is that this man is a general. The generals have spent a lifetime being dutiful, not thinking too much about high policy, and by a certain point...well, it's as the proverb says, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. There is more hope for those below, the colonels and majors and captains, and of course those who do the most fighting and who have seen up close what the "Iraqis" are like, even if they do not quite understand, in all cases, where the fatalism -- that inshallah-fatalism -- comes from, or that brutality and natural violence, or that victor/vanquished view of the universe, or that absence of national feeling (save in a very few --for almost everyone is out for himself, or his family, or at most his tribe or group -- the nation-state means nothing in Islam), or that habit of mental submission. They may not all know why, but they certainly know more, based on their experience, than this general who has been "reading the Qur'an." Could he be one more of the victims of that famous reading list that was cobbled-together by the likes of John Esposito and Peter Bechthold? Perhaps. Could he be one of those who has fallen for that Saudi line promoted by Jim Guerrard, that the problem is not "jihad" but only "hiraba" -- you can see why the Saudis and other Muslims would want to have the Infidels believe that, can't you?

Oh, send all the generals to re-education camp. Send them to school to learn about Islam. And count on their being removed soon enough, and replaced by others who, one hopes, will not have been so disgusted by their experience in Iraq as to leave the military altogether, but will grimly remain in because they realize what Islam is all about, and realize too how important it is for those who do understand to stay in, and rise high -- and rise high quickly.

Posted by: Hugh at July 16, 2007 9:12 PM

He's hired a company to research their motivation? Doesn't he know he can read about it for free here every day? Robert Spencer or Tim Furnish, who's been there, done that could set him straight in a trice. Spencer's calendar is a bit full these days, so, general S, hire Tim!

Posted by: Archimedes2 at July 16, 2007 9:22 PM

>>extremists who deliberately misinterpret the
>>religious text to justify jihadist campaigns.

OOOOPPPSSS!

There it is. There is where he went wrong.

What he does not seem to understand is that the 'extremists' are the ones who are CORRECTLY interpreting the quoran.

Political correctness is going to be on the tombstone of western civilization.

Posted by: Han_Solo at July 16, 2007 9:22 PM

"Are they here because they were unemployed? Are they here because they are committed to a very strong jihadist viewpoint?"
Major General Stone

Are they here because their father was mean to them?
Are they here because someone said no to Mohammad 1400 years ago?
Are they here because the Moors were driven out of Spain?
Are they here because Europeans turned them back at Vienna?
Are they here because we captured Saddam?
Are they here because we didn't kill Saddam in 1991 when we had the chance?

What's the difference? They're here and they're getting ready to kill you and your men. What are you going to do?

Posted by: PMK at July 16, 2007 9:31 PM

SO how does he deal with "fight until their in no more fitnah and all religion is for allah and his prophet"?

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at July 16, 2007 9:56 PM

Seems to me the General's approach of getting a better handle on Islam directly, via the Koran, is not a bad idea. The bad part is where he performs "outreach" with semi-willing (??) subjects and expects this to yield tangible, positive results.

The only reason a warrior should seek an understanding of the enemy at this level is to find more efficient and effective means of wiping him out.

Posted by: lycaste at July 16, 2007 10:08 PM

Will Major General Douglas Stone be sure to find out, as he re-reads his Qur'an -- and which translation is he reading, and with what helpful explanatory guides? -- about the interpretive doctrine of "naskh" (abrogation), and that, most importantly, that he come to understand the relevance of the Sunnah, that is all the material, about Muhammad, his acts and sayings, and the manners and customs of his 7th-century eastern Arabia, that serves as a kind of essential gloss on the Qur'an. It would do Major General Douglas Stone good to read a few hundred of the hadith - they are only a click away, on the Internet. And it would do him equal good to find out as much as he can about the figure of Muhammad, the Model of Conduct (uswa hasana), the Perfect Man (al-insan al-kamil), to find out about the beheading of the hundreds of bound prisoners of the Banu Qurayza, about the attack, purely for the purposes of seizing loot and women, on the inoffensive Jewish farmers of the Khaybar Oasis, about Muhammad's approval of the murders of those two mockers, Asma bint Marwan and Abu Akaf, and about little Aisha, betrothed at six, whom Muhammad "married" when she was nine, and about a good deal more -- not a bit of which can be criticized in the slightest, according to Muslims, for everything Muhammad did was wonderful, all to be emulated.

What's that phrase? "A little learning is a dangerous thing." In the case of Major General Douglas Stone, he owes it to himself and especially to his men not to be content with a little learning. It is, you see, a dangerous thing.

Posted by: Hugh at July 16, 2007 10:28 PM

I don't know what he said but I had a friend that worked for a faith based group that ran a training facility that accepted court assigned kids that were almost sent to reform school but sent there for a last chance, and one of the kids said he did not have to do certain things because he was a muslim (but one that did not know the Koran much).My friend showed him where it said Jesus was an important prophet, and the kid was impressed, then my friend said and here in another book (the Bible) Jesus said I am the way. No one gets to the Father but through me. And the kid straightened up.

Posted by: Don Singleton at July 16, 2007 10:30 PM

I suspect he is using the earlier Koranic verses and omitting the later revelations. I would also guess the believe who believe him, don't know the Koran very well and are fooled by what he says.

Posted by: non-redneck at July 16, 2007 10:33 PM

No wonder Americans are seen as foolish, ignorant and crude. This guy is naive at best and a nutbag at worst.

Think he will get it when his 'converted Muslims' read him the Islamic miranda rights before they scream 'Allahu akbar' and saw his head off before a video camera?

I doubt it.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at July 16, 2007 10:35 PM

This general is attempting the equivalent of trying to use cocaine to wean someone off crack.

Frankly, Maj. General Stone would be better off putting each of his captured jihadists in solitary for a couple of weeks - with nothing in their cells except food, water, and the four Gospels in modern Arabic. No more Quran: cold turkey.

Hugh - great comments. And - speaking as an Aussie housewife who is still grateful for those Yankee lads who rolled back the Japanese empire from way too close to my country, back when my mum was just a kid - I do hope some of those GIs in Iraq who are starting to 'get' it about Islam, will do as you say, and "grimly remain in [the military] because they realize what Islam is all about, and realize too how important it is for those who do understand to stay in, and rise high -- and rise high quickly."

Hang in there, men, you privates, corporals, sergeants, lieutenants, majors - Americans, Canadians, Australians. If you're browsing this website while you're home on leave - do pay attention.

Read Robert Spencer's "PIG to Islam and the Crusades". That one essentially tells you all you need to know. If you want more: Spencer's "The Truth About Mohammed". If you want to know why we don't want the Third Jihad to conquer the West (and the South [= southern Africa from Uganda down], and the East [= India, Thailand, Philippines, etc]), read Bat Ye'or, The Dhimmi, or even V S Naipaul, 'Among the Believers', to see what a ghastly mess Islam makes of every aspect of a society, when it dominates, the pitiless thugocracy that it fosters. At its worst, Islam creates a 'ground zero' reminiscent of Pol Pot.

Fellow-citizens. When it comes time to send christmas cards, or letters, or comfort parcels, to our men in Iraq, or in Afghanistan, let us make sure we mention Mr Spencer's invaluable books, and Bat Ye'or, and Bostom's "Legacy of Jihad".

Does anyone here have a friend or kinsman in the army in Iraq? If you do - have you sent them a present yet? - a copy of the 'PIG to Islam and the Crusades'. Or perhaps even a copy of that brilliant account of the siege of Malta, 'Blood Rock', by [I think] James Jackson, that someone posted a link about, on this site, not long ago?

Do you know an army chaplain who's serving in the Middle East? Make sure he has Mark Durie's book about the differences between Christianity and Islam.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 16, 2007 11:07 PM

Well, we WOULD relieve this assclown of his command, but like his feel-good peers who shouldn't be in the military to begin with (military isn't for social experimentations-they're to kill bad guys and destroy their wares)...he'd just go home, and be reassigned to do something else stupid...like prosecute soldiers for bogus reasons based on bogus evidence by bogus witnesses, like politically correct traitors are doing against our Marines over the bogus haditha case.

Posted by: jcom972 at July 16, 2007 11:09 PM

He quotes the nice, but meaningless parts of the Koran to prisoners who already know the meaningful parts.

He smiles. They smile.

Victory!

Then the prisoners go back to their village, assemble an IED, and the Major General's men are on patrol in that dusty village a week later, and learn the true lesson of the Koran.

And have to be returned home, reassembled, in a box.

Victory, sure.

But whose victory?

(Whatever happened to know thy enemy?)

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 16, 2007 11:10 PM

out the door, thanks to the absolute opposite of common sense: political correctness.
Without complete and utter rejection of taqqiyah, all the well-intentioned work is useless...regardless it's not the job of the military anyway.
When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow...works every time.

Posted by: jcom972 at July 16, 2007 11:35 PM

>>Make sure he has Mark Durie's book about the
>>differences between Christianity and Islam.

More info? Book title? Have not heard of it. He is quoted in some of mr spencers books but did not know he has one of his own.

Posted by: Han_Solo at July 16, 2007 11:37 PM

An article was put up here in January 2005 (that is, 2 1/2 years ago) about the reading list that General Vines was not only using himself, but recommending to all those under his command -- a list of apologists compiled with the egregious help of other apologists, especially by John Esposito, who ought to be hauled before Congress and grilled as to the sources of his Center's funding, and on the other sources -- lectures, "consultancies" and so on--of his income over the past decade, and the contents of whose books ought to be held up for public inspection, scrutiny, and ridicule.

Perhaps now is a good time to re-post that article:

Fitzgerald: The greatest Intelligence Failure of the Iraq War was not about WMD

Lt. Gen. John H. Vines, who is set to take command of American ground forces in Iraq, has assigned a series of books on Islam to his staff members. Here are comments on Vines' choices from Hugh Fitzgerald:

"The Reading List of General Vines deserves further detailed study. There are two books by Esposito. There is one by Karen Armstrong, whom, one would have thought, is by now regarded as a complete buffoon. There is something about Islam for Dummies. There is a book by the jejune Sandra Mackey on Iraq, when either the Letters of Gertrude Bell (those from Baghdad up to 1927, when she killed herself), or Philip Ireland's book published in 1939 would have helped -- and best of all would have been the essay on Iraq by the native of Baghdad, Elie Kedourie, published in Islam in the Modern World.

Nothing by Lewis. Nothing by Kedourie. Nothing by J. B. Kelly, not even that essay "Of Valuable Oil and Worthless Policies" which, while it dates in the section on the Soviet threat, does not date as a description of the misperception of Saudi Arabia. The spirit of ARAMCO propagandists still lives.

What is good about the Reading List is that it is so bad, so truly bad, that eyebrows should be raised all over Washington. Who compiled this list? Who carefully allowed in, as the single sop, the Naipaul, but left out the Lewis, the Kedourie, the Kelly? Who left out any serious essays on the nature of Islam, on Jihad? How are the Infidel soldiers supposed to comprehend the hostility that is felt towards them, even though they are only there to "rebuild" Iraq? For if they cannot understand that hostility -- which is in every textbook, every mosque, every madrassa, every Arab satellite channel, every Qur'an and volume of the Hadith and every life of Muhammad, they will be eternally confused. And confusion and incomprehension, or miscomprehension, leads to demoralization.

Here is an example of a little colloquy reported by NPR Correspondent Deborah Amos this morning. She was reporting from Basra. She interviewed a man, asking him as follows:

Amos: "Do you want foreign troops to leave?"
Iraqi: "Would you want your country to be occupied?" (Iraqis, she said, and soldiers know, tend to reply to questions cannily, warily, with questions of their own, and almost never give a straight answer to anything).

When Amos then presses him if he wants the Americans to leave, he answers:

"Yes, I do. But not before they fix everything, and stop terrorism."

How nice. I hate you, and I want you to leave. But first you have to "stop terrorism" and, oh by the way, "fix everything."

That kind of attitude will not be understood by reading Karen Armstrong, who describes Muhammad as the man who "brought peace" to the Arabian Peninsula. It will not be understood by reading John Esposito, author of The Islamic Threat: Myth or Reality? (we know which he chose), a man who in previous editions of his books does not give more than a single mention of the word "Jihad" and has never treated of the dhimmi.

How can American officers figure out why the Christians are being terrorized, if they know nothing about the 1350 year history of Jihad-conquest and of the imposition of dhimmitude? How?

How can American officers understand what is going on if the inculcated hostility toward them is not understood?

The greatest Intelligence Failure of the Iraq War was not about WMD. It was about Islam, its tenets, its nature, the attitudes and atmospherics it engenders. It was an intelligence failure that continues as long as we prate about how everyone wants freedom (nonsense), that "democracy" will lessen the threat in the Middle East (double-nonsense), that the best way to limit a threat based entirely on the classic ideology of Islam is to say nothing, to learn nothing, to hint at nothing, about Islam itself.

Supposedly, the "faculty at Yale" and people at the "Foreign Service Institute" were responsible for this list. Let's find out something more about precisely who was involved in the selection of the final group of eight books. What are their names? What are their own interests?

Note to Hollywood: it is time for movies and television stories, not about Muslim terrorists, but about those who are apologists for Islam, and who are determined to keep certain truths from getting out, in very high places indeed. One need not be of a conspiratorial frame of mind to see that with such a Reading List, something is very amiss -- and very high up.

This has to be thoroughly investigated."

[January 23, 2005 7:09 AM]

Note: No one is expecting Vines, or Stone, or any of the others to be immersed in the different Sunni schools of jurisprudence. No one is asking them to repeat backwards the collected fatwas, fetvalar, of the Ottoman Ebu's-su'ud. But some acquaintance with the main facts of Muhammad's life (see Spencer's "The Truth About Muhammad" or any number of websites, including www.faithfreedom.org run by and for ex-Muslims), with his words and acts (those Hadith), and the Qur'an itself -- can be, at this point, demanded of all those who are in charge of making, or executing, policies on which our lives depend. And if they 1) can't be bothered or 2) find it too taxing, then they have an obligation to get out of the way for others who 1) can be and 2) don't.

Posted by: Hugh at July 16, 2007 11:40 PM

Here's the bio of this clown...
https://slsp.manpower.usmc.mil/gosa/biographies/rptBiography.asp?PERSON_ID=123&PERSON_TYPE=General
He should stick with "toys for tots", and humanitarian relief efforts...I don't trust anyone who get any indoctrination from such kook-fringes as stanford & usc...may as well be berzerkely for that matter (just ask David Horowitz).

Nice effort Doug...naive as hell, but nice effort... but it will work only as well as it would against banzai charges & kamikazes.

Posted by: jcom972 at July 16, 2007 11:45 PM

General Stone, AKA "Rockhead" has a better chance of getting honey from Nahoul then he has of making his ill-researched fantasy come true, no matter how bad he wants it to happen.

Our fearless and oh-so-ignorant leaders. Career military men are and should be trained tacticians, skilled in eliminating an enemy, not erroneously philosophizing about how to solve a 1300+ year old unsolvable problem.

Any assistance by the current administration to actually identify an enemy to destroy would be welcome anytime now to actually begin that process.

Just walking away solves all problems actually, free advice just in case any sane minds are reading.

Posted by: awake at July 17, 2007 12:01 AM

WE ARE AT WAR!!! The survival of our country is at stake and at risk. In WWII if an enemy was captured in civilian clothing he was executed. I have not read of one enemy combatant being executed. In fact, some of our soldiers and marines have been prosecuted and sentenced to prison for killing the enemy. Our President has failed to encourage and inspire the American people to get behind the war effort. We allow the enemy to operate freely in our own country: Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic Thinkers Society, etc.
This officer can study and try to understand the enemy, but his duty is to kill the enemy and protect his country.

Posted by: 1american at July 17, 2007 12:18 AM

Right on, 1american!

Posted by: champ at July 17, 2007 12:20 AM

I have to agree with Elric66 that this foolishness is like giving captured German soldiers in WWII copies of Mein Kampf to show them that they have misunderstood or been misled as to Hitler's true intentions.

Foolishness + Hubris = Colossal Mistake.

Posted by: alexon at July 17, 2007 12:42 AM

Wouldnt that be like giving copies of Mein Kampf to deter Nazism?

Posted by: Elric66 at July 16, 2007 8:32 PM

It's simply like giving notebook computers to Internet Jihadists in UK prisons.

Posted by: Shy Guy at July 17, 2007 12:55 AM

I think I will send him a copy of "Islam: What The West Needs To Know". I'll send a few to my deployed friends as well. I have to do something. It makes me sick to think about how clueless our leadership is.

http://www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com/

Posted by: KufirFiDarAlHarb at July 17, 2007 1:17 AM

"I've seen it work," says Major General Stone.

A Major General? No- A major Moonbat

It'll have to get worse before it gets better-and it might not get any better. With guardians like this at the gate, I think its about time I start arming myself.

I was scanning the article for one good quote to respond to, but the amount of sheer idiocy on display is simply overwhelming-

"I intend to do my part to win in the battlefield of the brain,"...(!?)

"to try and figure out what is the insurgency motivation"...

"Are they here because they were unemployed?"(!)

dude.like.whoa!

Posted by: november1981 at July 17, 2007 3:21 AM

CITE
Gen Stone has also commissioned a study of the motivations of insurgents, in an attempt to improve understanding of how the US can prevent people becoming radicalised.
END CITE

That's the question easy enough: a shot in the head and nobody gets radicalised no more.
-------------------------------------
Hey, Jihad Joe, we're coming to get yea © Megadeth

Posted by: Hell Awaits at July 17, 2007 5:29 AM

""I have hired an outside company to study the entire insurgency and to try and figure out what is the insurgency motivation,..."

.......hmmmmmm, must be a dhimmicrat.....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 17, 2007 6:08 AM

To Hugh

Note to Hollywood: it is time for movies and television stories, not about Muslim terrorists, but about those who are apologists for Islam, and who are determined to keep certain truths from getting out, in very high places indeed. One need not be of a conspiratorial frame of mind to see that with such a Reading List, something is very amiss -- and very high up.

I agree but when was the last Hollywood movie made where the bad guys were Muslim? Can you even name one post 9-11?

Posted by: Elric66 at July 17, 2007 6:19 AM

It could just as well work the other way round:

Realizing all the bad stuff in the Book could have a good effect on one or the other Jihadist - as they might not really have studied that Book.

Posted by: FreeSpeech at July 17, 2007 7:06 AM

Sounds like trying to cure a pyromaniac by giving him a blowtorch.

The General might very well have seen it work, but can he be certain he hasn't created a few jihadists also.

I think he'd better stick to conventional war.

Posted by: rational at July 17, 2007 7:44 AM

The Majors study kind of reminds me of the "Old Doc" on the Day of the Dead movie by Goerge Romero.

Description
The living have lost the war and now the dead have taken over. A small pocket of survivors consisting of a military and scientific team staying in a secure underground bunker doing research,trying to find an answer to why the dead are walking,and also trying to find any other survivors,but without much success.The sequence of events that follow ultimately lead to their self destruction.Plenty of gore including usual gun-shots to the head, decapitation, amputation, bodies ripped apart,entrails eaten,throat rippings etc. The special effects by Tom Savini are truly outstanding and these scenes where Dr Logan(Richard Liberty) tries to train a zombie are simply amazing. If you love gore you must see "Day of the Dead".Highly recommended.

After Dr Logan fails to find the source of evil by surgical exploration, electrical stimuli, etc., The Old Doc tries to train the zombies by feeding them the entrails of his fallen comrades as reward. Maybe if MG Stone let's the boys do a few beheadings while reciting the Korans glorious words he might just save the world.

Posted by: Abrog8 at July 17, 2007 9:54 AM

@Hugh: "The generals have spent a lifetime being dutiful, not thinking too much about high policy, and by a certain point...well, it's as the proverb says, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. There is more hope for those below, the colonels and majors and captains, ..."

Our military are primarily technicians in warcraft. They do not and may not involve themselves in policy, except that they study policy in order to try to predict what forces will be necessary to support policy. It is the military's responsibility to organize, train, and equip military forces for current and future conflicts in support of actual and likely policy. (That's one hell of a job, at the moment, given the hysteria and ignorance and cynicism in Congress today).

In studying the sociological aspects of warfare, as in "knowing the enemy," the military relies heavily--almost exclusively--on academia.

What the military, at any level, does not understand is that today's academia is dedicated to the deconstruction or even to the destruction of our Western civilization. Today's academia despises the traditional military, despises our national heritage and history, despises truth-telling when it conflicts with their international socialist agenda, despises "global hegemonistic" America, and despises capitalism.

Today's academia wants us to "lose" in Iraq, for instance, so that the US can be properly humiliated. More generally, because "war for self-interest is bad," today's academia wants every military operation overseas to fail except for operations controlled by non-US authorities like the UN, and for objectives totally divorced from our legitimate national interest. Today's academia wants "neo-Nazi Amerika" to be put in its place for good. It wants the United States to be neutered and put under control of extra-national political supervision.

On the subject of Islam and other crucial subjects, the military does not know that it is being continuously fed propaganda by an academia who loathe their own society. The only hope is that the officer corps eventually figures this out, and begins to get their information independently from self study--and from honest sources like JW/DW.

Maj Gen Stone is not going to do this, quite obviously. Maybe, as Hugh suggests, the younger officers will rise to the occasion. But they are and will face a wall of academic opposition, agenda-driven disinformation, and overt hostility from the establishment. As Robert must suffer each day merely for telling the truth about Islam, they should be prepared for the inevitable slander, invidious comparison to Nazis and "Islamophobes," and being branded as nationalistic xenophobic trouble-makers.

Posted by: Stendec at July 17, 2007 9:58 AM

Good grief!! And this "try and understand the enemy" by reading a Quran is coming from a USMC General!!!

We are doomed and I am disgusted.

Posted by: HOV Dummy at July 17, 2007 10:35 AM

" I've seen it work..."
General Stone
..............
Certainly it works..the General thought of the idea..how could it not work? Actually, the whole hare brained concept was probably passed to Stone by some 2nd Lt. who will now receive a glowing fitness report. Managers spend most of their time trying to impress when they should be putting their heads down and kicking ass, which is what they are paid to do.

Posted by: pismopal at July 17, 2007 11:48 AM

Are they here because they were unemployed?
_____________________________

Islamic Terrorism is not singularly motivated by economic hardship. The numerous Doctors in the Glasgow Bombing should have been enough to disprove that theory.

I would agree that reading the Qu'ran and understanding it is a good start. Know thy enemy, where there is commonality and where there is difference. However, a huge issue with Islam is interpretation. There is no authoritative interpretation. There is the Hadith which must be considered, and the 4 jurists which also must be considered, but at its core, Islam, is scripture alone gone mad. Taken as a whole, there is not only a description of historical violence, but an actual proscription to commit violence.

You also have the issue of leading by example. Jesus died instead of waging an earthly war in heralding the kingdom of heaven. Muhammad waged war in order to further the kingdom of Allah. These are completely opposed to each other. According to the Christian belief, ultimate judgement and retribution lies with God and not with man, Islam, on the other hand, commands revenge.

I can not understand how the West does not see this. Especially, when Jihadists take care to point out the verses where this is so. Even as Christian who reads the Qu'ran myself and sees aspects that are true and good (care for poor / orphans and so on) one can not, MUST not, dismiss the violence inherent in the Qu'ran, or in the example of Muhammad, nor fail to realize how easy it is to justify a religion of war, not a religion of peace, by a cursory reading of the Qu'ran.

It is a war of the "mind," but when the West refuses to connect Jihadism with the core principles in Islam, or even allow for the word "Jihad" then we are unable to proceed at all. By binding our mouths, we bind our minds, and by binding our minds, we bind our body, and leave ourselves open to complete oppression.

Posted by: Monkeywho at July 17, 2007 1:18 PM

Monkeywho:

I think you meant "presciption to commit violence," not "proscription," which means prohibition.

Sura 9, the final sura (chronologically) of the Koran, which is supposedly the final word of Allah and binding for all time on Muslims, is the concluding "prescription to commit violence," abrogating any peaceful words that appear, here and there, in the earlier suras.

So the final word of Allah to humanity includes the egregious suras 9.5 (ambush and slay the infidels whereever you find them), 9.29 (fight the infidels until they submit to Islam), and 9.111 (to win salvation, you must slay and be slain for Allah).

Posted by: Stendec at July 17, 2007 3:54 PM

Good Lord, does he want to rehabilitate them so they can see the error of their ways? And if they are so well educated then they just need to read a little more to realize what they are doing is wrong and against the Koran's teachings? We already know why they are motivated, why they are there, and what they want. Bin Laden, et. al., have said repeatedly they are just following the commands of the Koran and they are right. Asking these questions now only displays the General's ignorance and naivete, and even considering that reading the Koran will help the "hardcore Islmaic militants" in his custody confront the "extremists" turns logic on its head. This is another blatant example of our refusal to confront the realities of this war, including knowing the enemy. The report the General is commissioning, no doubt from a high-priced consultant paid with our tax dollars, will be just the thing to turn these guys around, I am sure. I can hardly wait. In the meantime, why don't we give them unlimited Internet access so they can do their own research. There are lots of Islamic websites full of up-to-the-minute information on the Koran's teachings and where the insurgents in the General's custody can learn about what really motivates the "misinterpreters of Islam".

Posted by: Saxonman at July 17, 2007 4:59 PM

Dear Stendec:

Thank you for the correction. That is exactly what I meant.

It would also be confusing to most people that Sura 9 is the last book (chronologically speaking) rather than the last book in the Qu'ran.

Aside from a basic reading of the Qu'ran. Anybody taking the time to check out the CURRENT videos translated by the kind folks at PMW will certainly be sickened and awakened to how Islam is followed in the Middle East, and now by immigrants and the internet, coming to a city, in the States, near you.

Posted by: Monkeywho at July 17, 2007 7:28 PM

To Han Solo, re the Mark Durie book.

Mark Durie - "Revelation? Do We Worship the Same God? Jesus, Holy Spirit, God in Christianity and Islam" - Cityharvest, Australia, 2006.

Bat Ye'or gave it a rave review - and she's Jewish.

Recommended for Christians - like our well-meaning but foolish general Stone! - in order to cut through the fog created by certain kinds of 'inter-faith' 'dialogue', and Muslim taqiyya, and our common failure to grasp what happens with the Quranic and Muslim appropriation and perversion of Biblical characters. It is brief, cool and clear, based on solid scholarship in the relevant texts - like Spencer, the guy knows his stuff.

Army chaplains would find it useful for educating the 'grunts' in their flock, because it sets out in simple, accessible language the difference between what Christians think and what Muslims think about the divinity and how it relates to humanity. Durie's focus is on the differing accounts of god, but he does describe, briefly but accurately, the fallout in politics and ethics - e.g. on pages 129-122 he talks about 'the sharia state' and the jihad dream of world conquest, and on pages 134-36 he relates the Muslim view of Allah as capricious and a 'plotter', to the practice of taqiyya. Such passages could be linked in with the more extensive treatments to be found in Spencer's books.

Off-topic: I would recommend Durie's book to any Christian visitor at this site who has smart high school or college kids who are encountering the usual daawa from Muslim classmates or teachers - you know, the claims that Islam honours Jesus, or that 'we worship the same god'. Arm your kids with this book and no amount of Muslim spin will ever be able to confuse them.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 17, 2007 9:39 PM

Oops - typo - the phrase 'on pages 129-22 he talks about the sharia state', should read 'on pages 120-22 he talks about the sharia state'. Sorry folks.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 18, 2007 1:51 AM