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"Al-Qaeda Pipeline" Update. "Terror trainee estimates set off alarm," by Ben Leapman for the Telegraph :
London: Up to 4,000 extremists have attended terrorist training camps in Afghanistan before returning to Britain, security chiefs have revealed.
The alarming figure raises fresh questions about border controls and the capacity of the intelligence and security services to keep the country safe.
It demonstrates how Gordon Brown's plans for tighter checks on people entering Britain, unveiled last week, will come too late to keep out many dangerous individuals.
Afghanistan was the centre for Al Qaida's terrorist training activities between 1996, when the Taliban regime came to power, and the end of 2001, when America and Britain invaded the country. Since then, the focus has shifted to areas of Pakistan along the Afghan border.
More than 400,000 journeys are made each year between Britain and Pakistan, the vast majority of them legitimate. It is not known how many travellers continue their journey overland into Afghanistan.
Double the estimate
A senior security source said of the Al Qaida camps: "There are 3,000 to 4,000 people who went from the UK to Afghanistan and came back. The important question is, where are they now?" The figure is more than double the estimate of 1,600 which MI5 gave last autumn for the number of individuals actively involved in plotting terrorist attacks in the UK.
There are several possible explanations for the gap. Some of those who came back to Britain from Afghanistan may since have given up terrorist activities. Others may have left the UK to fight in Iraq.
MI5 and MI6 are working on the assumption, however, that Al Qaida sees its British Muslim recruits as too valuable to be used in Iraq, and that most are ordered to return to their communities in Britain to establish autonomous terrorist "sleeper cells". Concerns over sleeper cells have been heightened since the failed "doctors' plot" attacks in London and Glasgow two weeks ago.
Estimates for the total number of extremists who have received weapons training and religious instruction at Al Qaida camps, mostly in Afghanistan, have ranged from 20,000 to 70,000. Until now, intelligence sources have said it was impossible to estimate how many of those were British residents.
Posted by Marisol at July 22, 2007 1:12 AM
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So much for that "tiny minority of extremists" theory that the Pollyanna Left keeps upholding.
Talk is getting extremely cheap, that's my take on things. I'm planning to write my first book about all this nonsense we keep harping on here each day, between now and the end of next year.
After that I'm going to have to gear up to get political or get directly involved with some grassroots movement to shake up the lobby in Washington, DC. I'm not sure yet because that's new territory for me, but I will say this much -- we aren't going to get anywhere whining about all this and holding our breath. We need to get a lot of rich, fat elitist morons out of power in our U.S. government (and I would assume the UK and Europe, too), and we'd better do it within the next 10 years or we're going to be up to our necks in Islamic Jihad, Sharia and political Islam on our own soil. You can then forget about having a normal life anymore -- it will be daily terror, incessant dogma and constant tax relief for more and more Islamic immigrants.
Talk - is - cheap.
Posted by: Foehammer![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at July 22, 2007 1:47 AM
Dear Foehammer,
There's a huge book to be written about the figures. Ask Robert if he'll forward an email to me from you and I'll send you some substantiated European figures - which you probably will already know!
Posted by: Jonathan Ralbrooke at July 22, 2007 3:34 AM
One comment on those jihad "doctors".. the way they botched those terror attmepts makes me wonder if they ever were very good doctors to begin with..
What a bunch of losers.
Posted by: Allahfanculo at July 22, 2007 4:01 AM
Though I think that's a conservative estimate, what struck me was this possibility...
...wouldn't it prove eerily interesting to find out that 4,00 is also the same approximate number that go to the UK to be...doctors(?).
Just a thought.
:-)
at July 22, 2007 5:35 AM
"One comment on those jihad "doctors".. the way they botched those terror attempts makes me wonder if they ever were very good doctors to begin with..."
-- from a posting above
Isn't there another, much more obvious thought that the case of the Jihad Doctors might prompt? How carefully, with what tender attention, might such "doctors" treat their non-Muslim pattentions? I'm not talking about potential serial killers, injecting something lethal into the veins of trusting young Vijay Kumar, aged 11, who is brought in by his parents, or Mrs. Goldstein who closed her fabric store after her husband died, or retired Wing Commander Archibald Coakley, M.B.E., whose grandson brought him in, because each represents a diffeent example of the enemy, the Infidel enemy that still inhabits England and seems to think the land is not for turning.
No, there are other ways. Deliberate inattention, offering a wrong diagnosis, treating with ineffective drugs, overlooking the latest literature, forgetting ways to ease their pain, treating them roughly as they undergo certain procedures, making them anxious and enjoying their anxiety and that of their families.
Farfetched? Why? If you take to heart what others among you have obviously taken to heart, and if this is indeed the permanent enemy, and if you are told you must not only never take them as friends, but regard them as Unbelievers who are obstinate obstacles to the triumph of Islam, large boulders blocking the path you have all your life been told to take, fi sabih Allah, wouldn't the stranger reaction be for those of us on the outside to dismiss such fears? Would it really make sense to call those who harbor them, or who point out why they are not necessarily far-fetched, objectionable, and not investigate the real possibilty not only of such behavior -- but of the potential liability of doctors' groups and hospitals if they do not investigate or worry sufficiently about such matters?
Posted by: Hugh at July 22, 2007 7:06 AM
Hugh:
What concerns me is the massive rise in hospital-acquired infection in the UK. Muslim visitors refuse to use the anti-bacterial gel placed on the wards for hand cleansing, as it is alchohol based.
Could this also apply to certain doctors?
I don't trust any of them!
Posted by: Sencit at July 22, 2007 7:25 AM
4,000 in Britian, how many in America and the rest of the west? Foehammer, I wouldn't wait too long to write that book.
Posted by: songdongnigh at July 22, 2007 7:28 AM
Hey!
Nothing to be worry about,
Cair Rep condemned the doctors.
I think we are wrong about Cair,
No ties to terror, yep, that is what she said, wow! Ain’t this wonderful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwVgywQXAQw
at July 22, 2007 7:57 AM
"What concerns me is the massive rise in hospital-acquired infection in the UK. Muslim visitors refuse to use the anti-bacterial gel placed on the wards for hand cleansing, as it is alchohol based."
The situation is even more absurd in some muslim countries. The mullahs in the case described below are not merely ignorant - they are evil.
"THE tragic death of a doctor on Friday in a bomb explosion as he was on his way to the Bajaur Agency to counter claims that the polio vaccination was not an “infidel vaccination” is a shocking incident that should serve as a wake-up call for the authorities. Health officials have been struggling in the NWFP to counter propaganda by the clerics who use illegal FM stations to spread lies — like polio vaccine renders one sterile — but Friday’s incident shows how far extremists can go to “protect” their absurd beliefs and convictions. It is this obscurantist mindset that has deterred officials from eradicating polio in the province. Pakistan is one of four countries in the world where the disease is endemic. Last year saw 39 cases of polio reported from the NWFP, up by 11 recorded in 2005. According to the Guardian, 24,000 parents in the province refused to take the vaccine on religious grounds despite health officials showing fatwas signed by Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Maulana Fazlur Rahman endorsing the vaccine. This shows the kind of challenges the authorities are faced with in tribal areas where no amount of reason or logic can change opinion. That it has reached such dangerous proportions where a doctor can be so brutally killed for doing his job is frightening."
http://forum.atimes.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4692&whichpage=18
at July 22, 2007 8:26 AM
On the subject of books……..
A neglected masterpiece? A prophetic tome on the resurgence of Islam?
There has been some interesting conversations here about “1984,” George Orwell’s famous satire on the principles and practice of “Ingsoc.” (It doesn’t surprise me that Michael Moore missed that reference to English Socialism.)
But hands up who has read “1985,” the Anthony Burgess novella, written in 1978?
Anthony Burgess thought George Orwell had got it all wrong. He vastly exaggerated the importance of Communism, a system would did not take account of the “eternal verities” and hence could never have much lasting impact on the human mind.
Burgess predicted that Communism would have collapsed by the year 2000.
In the 19th Century, Marx predicted that revolution would come about in the highly industrialised countries.
Actually, revolution occurred in the undeveloped countries.
Burgess predicts that the real historical sequence would be poverty, communism, capitalism.
So what would the future would be like?
Burgess predicted that Britain would in the future be governed by an unholy alliance of leftists and Radical Muslims.
Written in the 1970s, when trade union power in Britain had basically gone insane, Burgess depicts a country crippled by endless strikes, which seem to metamorphose into general strikes with great ease.
Burgess also writes of an Islam, ready to impose itself on a Christianity, “ drained of it’s power by the Second Vatican Council.”
Burgess depicts a future Britain which has sold it’s soul for Arab oil, where oil is only exported from Arab countries to Britain on the condition that Islam is taught in British schools.
The main character, Bev, an unemployed teacher, attempts to revolt against the entire system, a system which includes things like state-organised education whose goal seems to be the cultivation of mediocrity, in the name of equality.
The novel is a bit self-referential, it contains characters like those in “A Clockwork Orange.” It contains “guerrilla” teachers, who provide “real” teaching to groups of violent youths.
And how does it end? Well I won’t give away the ending, I will only tell you that the “unholy alliance” between leftists and Islamists eventually disintegrates.
How prophetic is it? Well, Burgess was out by 11 years when predicting the fate of Communism in Europe.
The power of British trade unions may have declined, but has been replaced by the tyranny of political correctness whose rise Burgess also foresaw. You only have to read a newspaper like “The Independent” whose views on the Middle-East are pc to the point of lunacy.
I actually read this book back in the 1980s so I now feel like Oriana Fallaci. I should have foreseen all this.
at July 22, 2007 8:41 AM
Burnside, in his post above, comments on the islamist campaign in Pakistan against polio vaccine. I'm just wondering if there is a similar campaign against other vaccines, like those for whooping cough and measles. How about smallpox inoculation? And blood transfusions? It seems to me there could be an opportunity here for broadcasting a lot of disinformation to the islamic world. E.g. that the various vaccines contain alcohol, or that they are derived from pork blood or pigs' glands. In the case of blood transfusions, there are lots of possibilities for spreading rumors. Here's one: Jews have much more blood in their bodies than other humans, and so they can give blood often and feel no ill effects. A large part of the supply in the world's blood-banks comes from Jews. But, transfused into non-Jews, it causes impotence and sterility (the greatest fear of the moslems, it seems). Proof? Just look at Europe, where the Jews dominate. The birth-rate has collapsed.
Here's another: the evil Christian Red Cross makes sure that all the blood it supplies to moslem countries is actually pigs' blood, or is human blood, but specially treated with an added ingredient which causes sterility.
I'm sure JW's readers can think of other possibilities.
at July 22, 2007 9:47 AM
I am certainly no communist, but i personally believe short time business interests, like stable supply of oil, free trade and open boarders and economic growth are often not on the same side of those wanting to stop islamistic expansion. Free boarder policy are great for free trade, but sadly also great for potential terrorists who can travel and transfer money freely around the world.
Posted by: GeneralObserver at July 22, 2007 9:47 AM
This info just highlights again the sad reality that the laws of Western governments are devised to protect its populations from only historically typical evils like the usual types of crime and government suppression of recognized human rights including religious practice. But the penetration of an antagonistic, anti-Western Civilization death cult like fundamentalist Islam into society through simple immigration & back-forth-travel is something very new for which governments are, to this enemies’ delight, very unprepared. The legal tools are just not there and too little defense is in place to protect society from the punishments Islamists plan to execute from within the dar al-Harb.
Eventually, IMO, new laws and even constitutional amendments will have to be made to deal with this new kind of alien threat. However, probably many more innocent men women & children will have to be blown-up or horribly poisoned in London, New York and elsewhere before the screechings of the liberal idiots (who typically go into rightous fits at the mention of waterboarding) are ignored like the whining of naive children. It’s just a different world now with these trained alien monsters about and we must adapt or eventually perish.
at July 22, 2007 10:42 AM
What I fail to understand is why western governments would allow travel into war zones. I hear that Cindy Sheehan wants to go to Iraq now. Why are these people permitted this?
I recall (from my old U.S. passport) a whole list of countries which I was barred from traveling to (including Cuba, etc, it was a long list of banned countries -- a Canadian passport could get you into these countries, but not an American passport.) Now, though, it seems there's no "ban" on travel anywhere -- including to war zones and enemy, alien states. (Personally, the whole idea of allowing people to travel to these places -- to do what? get training and indoctrination? -- is ridiculous, imo).
Posted by: J.S. at July 22, 2007 11:02 AM
Odyessus
dammit!
i just spent 9 months, 44.000 words and a ton of research writing a book exactly along those lines! except my character meets a muslim girl who joins him in trying to take down the socialist-islamic government. it has a fantastic ending but im looking for a ghost writer to finish it. anyone wanna help?
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at July 22, 2007 11:22 AM
The world is governed by money. My personal opinion why the internet is so free for expressing ones opinions, are business interests. The free float of information on internet, are very beneficial for companies around the world.
As Naom chomsky has pointed out, the media are controlled by big corporations, and they basically writes whats is in the interest of corporate america. Corporate America wants stable oil prices, the markeds in the Middle East for their products and the last thin they want is a "clash" with islam.
On 9/11- 2001 TV showed the falling Twin Towers repeatedly. However, on 10/11-2001 they stopped rerunning the pictures, probably because business feared the psychological effect could bring the world economy into a recession.
Its all about money and interest of coprporations.
at July 22, 2007 11:35 AM
Its all about money and interest of coprporations.
Posted by: GeneralObserver
I agee with you somewhat, but the word 'all' in there is too absolute. Also, I would add 'power' to the equasion...money and power. Those are the drugs of the elite, even in Islam. However, the corporate entity ploting for money and power, does not have Allah behind them, as does corporate/political Islam. The commonality between Islam and the 'industrial military complex', is they both want global control and authority, and are willing to use dubious and deadly means to achieve it. So looking at it from that direction, the war on terror is actually a war between the globalists and the Islamists for world domination. In a globalist document called 'Quiet weapons for silent wars',(Google it), I dont vouch for it's authenticity, but it says in part that us regular folks will become 'benevolent slaves'. Islam would make us a slave to Allah, and all it's baggage.
So the two choices these people give us are not choices at all, they are slavery.
Of course the third choice is to do everything we can to put monkey wrenches into the works. It is Islam that is hanging off our arm with it's teeth now, so we have to deal with that first. But it is a mistake to ignore globalists. They have not gone away...
at July 22, 2007 12:17 PM
Thank,you, adding the power to the equation sounds interesting.
However, i dont i agree with you that it is a power struggle, at least in the short run, between globalization and islamization.
My point was islamisation BENEFITS from globalization because it creates more migration, more movement of people, less boarders, easier to smuggle weapons and so on.
And also, globalization benefits from, at least for a time, not to expose the islamisation.
I dont see globilisation as a sort of new way of slavery. Rather it allows for more specialisation, so that China produces cheaper and better fridges than USA, while USA makes better software etc. This help economic growth, which is good for corporations, who get more markeds, more places to invest, easier access to the right kinda workers etc. However, globalisation also tears down fences and boarders, and makes it easier for an ideologi like islam to settle all over the world. The previous national defense systems are gone. Also corporations realise Middle East as a marked, and oil supply as crucial for their own self interest. So it is in corporation slef interest to get a stable supply of oil form Middle East, almost at any poltical cost. My argument is that this longterm political costare to high, and those who will pay for this cost are basically our grandchildren.
at July 22, 2007 2:10 PM
England, by allowing large Muslim immigration, has gotten itself into a terrible mess. What I don't get is how Brown can go around telling everyone to pretend it's not the Muslims trying to kill them? It's just idiocy to the extreme.
Posted by: John Sobieski at July 22, 2007 2:55 PM
England is a terrific example of a country who thanks to globalisation and foreign investments has expereinced economic growth the last 10 years under Tony Blair. It is also a country who has surpassed USA as likely terror target in view of its significant population of muslim jihadists. I dont know, if that is the price of economic growth....
Posted by: GeneralObserver at July 22, 2007 3:07 PM
GeneralObserver
i dont think that the UK has surpassed the USA in terms of top terror targets. what the jihadists are planning and carrying out is low level, constant jihad in the UK and high level, high carnage attacks in the USA. For example the WTC high profile attack and the air attack on the Pentagon. I dont think that the glasgow gas bombing of glasgow airport compares with 9/11.
just wait, the next attack in the US will dwarf 9/11. the next attack in the UK will follow the same ground rules as last ones, ie improvised home made bombs used by home grown/immigrant muslim soldiers.
John Sobiesk
you just had a muslim congressman in the Senate compare George Bush to Hitler and condemn his foreign policy. the west, not just the UK is in a terrible mess.
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at July 22, 2007 3:18 PM
GeneralObserver...You're right in those examples, but I think globalisation is more than economic issues, although that might be the base. The reason I mentioned 'benevolent slavery', is because it is stated as such in the document I quoted.
Since you sound like you have an interest in economics, you should read this. I have posted the web address if you want to take a look...
http://www.syti.net/GB/SilentWeaponsGB.html
Posted by: duh_swami at July 22, 2007 5:20 PM
Sad sad.
Britain, kiss your ass goodbye.
Done in by your own elites - in govt. and in the Beeb.
Posted by: dgene at July 22, 2007 8:11 PM
dgene
so what would you propose? im not trying to start an argument but i just want to know how you would deal with this UK jihadist problem.
if you call for mass deportations, you will fail, the EU will set up trade embargos aagainst the UK.
If you start to intern a massive proportion of the UK muslim population then there would be open civil war from the socialist left.
If you support a nationalist government then you are branded as a neo-nazi, even though the UK nationalists want a dutch sytle "freedom party".
there's no easy answer, rather than track the jihadists, spy on them and arrest them when they attempt any act of terror. and yes that is very sad, but welcome to Great Britain's imperialistic hangover.
at July 22, 2007 8:57 PM
leonthepigfarmer:
so what would you propose? im not trying to start an argument but i just want to know how you would deal with this UK jihadist problem.
If you support a nationalist government then you are branded as a neo-nazi, even though the UK nationalists want a dutch sytle "freedom party".
I'd go for the nationalist government option.
Being called a neo-nazi hurts a lot less than attending the funeral of a loved one who has been blown up in a jihadist suicide bombing.
Posted by: watling at July 23, 2007 5:09 AM
"Being called a neo-nazi hurts a lot less than attending the funeral of a loved one who has been blown up in a jihadist suicide bombing.
Posted by: watling"
....Muslims have attacked such funerals....
Ban Muslim Immigration....
at July 23, 2007 7:10 AM
Britain is committing suicide and doesn't seem to mind. It's both sad and sickening to watch.
Posted by: GetBornAgain at July 23, 2007 10:46 AM
Picking up on comments by GeneralObserver and others regarding the current situation that exists between the promoters of globalisation and the promoters of "radical" Islam, the Bible spoke of this situation many years ago.
Speaking of our time, the Bible describes the final super-power nation named Mega-Babylon, whose symbol is a woman, and its successor - a confederation of nations known as the Beast.
The woman (the final Babylon nation) "rides the beast", i.e., it controls or governs the "beast", but the beast overthrows and destroys the woman.
Then begins a terrible period on earth where it appears that Islam will rule for seven years before its ultimate destruction.
Posted by: Ozi_bloke at July 23, 2007 10:46 PM
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