"Proactively support terrorism"
-- from the article above

What a hideous word "proactively " is. The English language got along without it very well, until about 20 years ago, when it first came in. Now you can hardly avoid bumping into it. It is unnecessary.

Posted by: Hugh at August 3, 2007 7:58 AM

"As many as one in 11 British Muslims agree with and proactively support terrorism, a Government adviser [himself a Muslim] has warned police.

Haras Rafiq also told officers at Scotland Yard that up to 20 per cent of the Muslim population ' sympathise' with militants, while stopping short of being prepared to 'blow themselves up.'"
-- from the article above

Of course this number is a guess, but it is not a guesss to call it the absolute minimum. I suspect ita gross underestimate. But in any case it is not the only question to be asked. Other questions to be asked include:

1) Do those 10 out of 11 British Muslims who do not "proactively support terrorism" actively denounce it? Do they work with the police, are they eager to do whatever they can to protect their fellow (though Infidel) citizens, are they going all out to work against, on every occasion, that "1 out of every 11" who are not true-blue citizens?

2) How many of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" believe that all obstacles to the spread of Islam, including the legal and political instiutions created, over many centuries, by the non-Muslims, the Infidels, of what is now Great Britain, should be dismantled, and that Islam, by right, should dominate everywhere, and Muslims, by right, should everywhere rule, as they do now in Dar al-Islam? Or do those people who identify themselves as Muslims in fact simply not believe the main tenets of Islam, and the worldview that divides us all into two categories: Believers and Infidels?

3) How mahy of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" who do not "proactively support terrorism" do so in other ways -- for example, by lending moral and finanical support to those who do "proactively support terrorism," and would, if necessary, refuse to report on them, and even help them to escape?

4) How many of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" who do not "proactively support terrorism" know perfectly well what passages in the Qur'an, what stories in the Hadith, what details in the life of Muhammad, so obviously can be appealed to, and are appealed to, by those who are enrolled in the army of those who "proactively support terrorism"?

5) How many of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" who do not "proactively support terrorism" are actively monitoring the mosques, and especially taking note, or even recording, the khutbas (the sermons at Friday Prayers), and reporting anything that smacks of encouraging hatred toward Infidels - Christians, Jews, Hindus -- and toward the institutions of the Infidel nation-state, including Parliament, the army, the judiciary?

6) How many of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" who do not "proactively support terrorism" have decided to actively encourage their children to understand the hostility, even murderous hatred, toward Infidels that is explicit in many passages in the Qur'an and Hadith, and in the life of that Perfect Man, Muhammad, and have encouraged their children, not by ignoring but by confronting and denouncing, such passages, to be able -- just -- to fit into the society which has, without much thought, welcomed them into its midst, or allowed them to settle deep behind what Muslims are taught to regard as enemy lines?

7) How many of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" who do not "proactively support terrorism" know perfectly well the real numbers and are alarmed, say, when the British government depends on "experts" such as Haras Rafiq who wildly understate, and almost comically limit, their discussion of aspects of the matter, to the problem of terrorism.

8) How many of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" dare to face up to the texts and tenets and attitudes and atmospherics of Islam, and begin to tell something like the truth about it, to themselves, to their children, to their fellow Muslims, and above all to the Infidels to whom they owe a great deal -- for being allowed to settle in a well-run polity, a polity that recognizes the individual and his rights, that unlike Islam is not a collectivist faith, a Total System, but that allows them to breathe, mentally and morally, in ways that neither they nor their children could possibly do in the lands of Dar al-Islam from which thyey came?

9) How many Muslims are willing to describe for the sake of Infidels the actual talk that goes on about those Infidels, among Muslims -- in madrasas, mosques, or in shops and on the street and of course inside houses -- when everyone thinks no Infidel is present, to tell the distrubing home truths that those who have been born and raised in Muslim societies know perfectly well about, and that every defector from Islam, the best of the best among those who have been born into Islam through no fault of their own, those unassailable witnesses, from Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina to Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan -- have testified, are testifying, will continue to testify, and are being joined, every minute, by the very best people born into Islam, who can no longer stand it, even if they may continue to call themselves, say, "cultural Muslims" when in fact they are what I have long described as "Muslims-for-identification-purposes-only" Muslims?

10) How many of those "10 out of 11 British Muslims" who do not "proactively support terrorism" have tried to do everything they can, in thought, word, and deed, to recognize, and to alert the British public -- or do they feel no loyalty to the Infidels of Great Britain? -- about the other instruments or weapons of Jihad, to admit that, as one Muslim writer in the U.S. did the other day, that he, and other Muslims, ought by rights to be deported, and that in order to save the United States, even though he himself was no threat, he recognized the naivete of Americans and also the magnitude of the threat, he too would be willing to be asked to leave -- a most telling admission [and, of course, he is exactly the kind of truth-teller who should be allowed, even encouraged, to stay].

There's ten.

Add to the list all you want.

Posted by: Hugh at August 3, 2007 8:19 AM

Suicide bombing is only one tactic in the enforcement of Islam over me. Should I not,also be concerned about someone hitting me over the head with a rock, slicing my throat with a knife, detonating a bomb with a cell phone, sniping at me from a distance, running me over with an SUV These surveys are incomplete when they don`t tell us the extent to which Muslims accept any form of violence in the furtherance of their peaceful religion.

Posted by: nberio at August 3, 2007 8:23 AM

How many were lying when they said no?

Posted by: Elric66 at August 3, 2007 9:18 AM

Slightly off topic, but Kafeel Ahmed the "Indian" doctor succeeded in his suicide. He died in Glasgow hospital last night, saving the taxpayer a few pounds...and not a moment too soon.

Posted by: grobari at August 3, 2007 9:19 AM

Slightly off topic, but Kafeel Ahmed the "Indian" doctor succeeded in his suicide. He died in Glasgow hospital last night, saving the taxpayer a few pounds...and not a moment too soon.

Posted by: grobari at August 3, 2007 9:19 AM

In 1933 when the Nazi party took control of Germany it had 2 million members, comprising only three percent of Germany’s sixty-six million citizens. A tiny minority of extremists can control a vast number of moderates, making them irrelevant.

Now we hear that 1 out of 11 are jihadis. That's better than nine percent of the muslim population.

In 2001, the population of the United Kingdom was recorded at just under 59 million people. If 1.4 million are muslims that means 2.3% of the population are muslim and .2% are jihadi.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 3, 2007 9:26 AM

Like wild dogs, or wolves, when they smell blood and see a weakened animal, their resolve to move in for the kill gets stronger.

So it is with Islam in Europe. The more the leftist/socialists dhimmi themselves to the Muslims in their midsts, and surrender their freedom to Islam, the more the Muslims get the scent of blood, and victory, and they are becoming bolder in their support for violence.

Posted by: worldwatcher at August 3, 2007 9:35 AM

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 “So then, you will know them by their fruits.

I know it's been said before.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 3, 2007 10:07 AM

Just found this sorry couldn't help myself.
stil LOL

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1859797,00.html
'No nudity for sex'
09/01/2006
Cairo - An Egyptian cleric's controversial fatwa claiming that nudity during sexual intercourse invalidates a marriage has uncovered a rift among Islamic scholars.
According to the religious edict issued by Rashad Hassan Khalil, a former dean of Al-Azhar University's faculty of Sharia (or Islamic law), "being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage".
The religious decree sparked a hot debate on the private satellite network Dream's popular religious talk show and on the front page of Sunday's Al-Masri Al-Yom, Egypt's leading independent daily newspaper.
Suad Saleh, who heads the women's department of Al-Azhar's Islamic studies faculty, pleaded for "anything that can bring spouses closer to each other" and rejected the claim that nudity during intercourse could invalidate a union.
During the live televised debate, Islamic scholar Abdel Muti dismissed the fatwa: "Nothing is prohibited during marital sex, except of course sodomy."
For his part, Al-Azhar's fatwa committee chairman Abdullah Megawar argued that married couples could see each other naked but should not look at each other's genitalia and suggested they cover up with a blanket during sex

ROTFL!!!!

Posted by: Catherine at August 3, 2007 10:07 AM

1 in 10 support suicide bombings. 9 out of 10 support taqiyya. 1700(and the sauds) support CAIR. If you love death more than we love life, I hope Death comes Ripping.

Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 3, 2007 10:25 AM

Just in Ok. Ca. Black mulsum bakery raid 19 detained???

WOW who would have thought a name like Black Mulsim Bakery??

Of course with courts today sutting down the tools to find islamic terrorist?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070802/ap_on_re_eu/britain_terrorism
Glasgow terror suspect dies from burns
TARIQ PANJA, Associated Press
August 2, 2007

Wait a min didn't he call Pa.?

OH no but the courts said we can't listen?

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/8/3/85446.shtml?s=ic
Friday, Aug. 3, 2007 8:53 a.m. EDT
Court Secretly Struck Down NSA Spying

OH MY

Posted by: Catherine at August 3, 2007 10:27 AM

Catherine that story is hillarious! You can't even make this stuff up. Unreal.

Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 3, 2007 10:30 AM

Catherine...I used to live near that Black Muslim bakery. The one thing I can say about it is that they made really good bread...

Posted by: duh_swami at August 3, 2007 10:45 AM

Although I share the pleasure of an English taxpayer that the fried Jihadi will no longer cost him a single pound to keep him in prison forever, I greeted his with a little sadness. The thought of him spending his life in pain, body covered in scars, and ultimately forgotten was a pleasurable thought. As to the survey results, England is facing a serious problem. Since (I assume) the majority of the Muslim population are English citizens, unless we wish to hand off to the fanatics a great gift of dismantling their own democratic rule of law, they are here to stay. Stopping additional Muslim immigration coming into the country seems also to be unlikely, but should be tried. The real effort must be to integrate and slowly wean them off these beliefs. How you do that is anyone’s guess. A poor historical analogy might give some hope. American Jews came to America, poor and oppressed in their countries of origin. Many were naturally attracted to the radical movements of their day including Communism. Although some became true radicals, dedicated to revolution, the majority saw their best interest in become loyal American citizens. While there was always a radical minority, America was sufficiently welcoming, so that the radicals remained on the margins of American Jewish life. Now I can think of a dozen reasons why this analogy isn’t applicable to Muslims in America or England, but I think there is a kernel of truth here. Assimilation is the answer. Muslims will not magically renounce their religion, nor will they disappear from our countries, but over time the goal must be for an identity of English/American first, Muslim second. We need policies that don’t appease, (no special rights to cover your face, eat Halal food in public school etc.) but that also welcome loyal Muslims into our society. They exist and they need to be encouraged. In time they will reject the intrinsic violent stupid parts of their religion, just like anyone who has ever had a gay friend realizes that for gays (as required in the old testament) is evil.

Posted by: esquared at August 3, 2007 10:57 AM

"Since (I assume) the majority of the Muslim population are English citizens, unless we wish to hand off to the fanatics a great gift of dismantling their own democratic rule of law, they are here to stay."
-- from a posting above

Why do you say such a thing? If being a citizen is a mere formality, a matter of paperwork, and the "citizen" in question has no loyalty, but is hostile, to the legal and political institutions of the state and the social arrangements and understandings of its indigenous population, the inheritors of that state who do not wish to see it -- that state -- "dismantled" (to echo your word above), then there is certainly a rational case to be made for removing the rights of citizenship from those for whom such rights are merely a cover for working against the very things of which that citizenship consists, including the individual rights that are guaranteed in Great Britain and other Infidel lands, and that have little or no meaning, and little or no worth, in lands where Islam dominates, and Muslims rule.

Do you think that Czechoslovakia, or what is now the Czech Republic, forever sullied itself, betrayed its own liberal principles, when those two statemen of old Europe, Eduard Benes and Jan Masaryk, issued the Benes Decree (or "decrees" for there were several), by which more than 3 million ethnic Germans, holding Czech citizenship, but having demonstrated by their behavior both in the pre-war period and during the war, that their loyalty lay with Germans and Deutchtum, and the Nazis (not all, but many, probably most), were expelled because, as the Czechs felt at the time, and have never regretted their decision since (nor has any figure of note, then or since, in political life, ever condemned them for it, but instead all except German revanchistes have understood and sympathized), those ethnic Germans were a permanent threat to the security of the state.

Do not simply dismiss things because you have not discovered how many, and recent, historical parallels there are, or because you think it simply impossible to make the case. The case can be made. That it has been made, so far, only here, is no reason why it cannot be made elsewhere, and just as convincingly as Benes and Masaryk made their case.

Posted by: Hugh at August 3, 2007 11:18 AM

Back in time when the Chechs expelled those "Germans" which you posted before, those years are gone and in this climate of PC, Western govenments cannot ever duplicate that with islamists. We have too many ACLU lawyers, UN and other bleating liberals who have more concern for the murderous islamists than they do for the harding working tax paying Western Joe on the street.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 3, 2007 11:36 AM

For any French speaking Jihadwatchers here is a news broadcast on Algerian attitudes to their Chinese immigrants

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1t047_alger-la-chinoise

It's inexplicable why we are the only only nations ashamed of protecting our interests.

Posted by: Sebastien at August 3, 2007 11:52 AM

hey americans, how do you feel about your kids who will have to wade in, again, to another world war to rescue europe from suicide. we europeans just don't get it. we allow dictators to fester and then when we have had enough it's too late and war begins. europe, expecially the uk, is on the verge of full scale civil war. we already have riots, no go zones, bomb attacks and ethnic cleansing, now that's a good precursor of civil war.

SOS we need help!

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at August 3, 2007 11:53 AM

Hi Leon,

How do you judge that the UK is on the verge of a full scale civil war?

Apart from beer and East Enders I don't see that the British care for much else.

Posted by: Sebastien at August 3, 2007 12:14 PM

Hugh, first of all citizenship is a legal formality, paperwork if you like. Now it is a important piece of paperwork, like a marriage certificate, but that is what it is, a legally defined set of rights and obligations. Now if you want to pass laws that define treason, or other crimes that would include disloyal citizens, who basically spit on our freedoms and in their heart are not really loyal to their country, I would give you a hesitant thumbs up. Hesitant, because of the slippery slope that you enter. To a huge degree the devil is in the details-- what constitutes a crime to either imprison or strip a person of their citizenship? . These are not trivial punishments, so the standard of proof is got to a lot higher then simply belonging to a religious group and/or country of ancestry. How do you this on a practical level? It is trite but true that freedom is only meaningful if it protects the viewpoints that are offensive. Simply hating your country of citizenship (while, depending on your country, a stupid thing) cant be enough. I understand that democracy is not a suicide pact, and that we don’t have sit with our fingers up our butt, waiting for jihadis to cut our necks before we take action. But I would say tread very carefully, the hallmark of so much human misery is when we cease to treat people like individuals with rights and lump them together in groups. (Like our Islamic friends who see us not as humans but as infidels, worthy of only conquest, or conversion)

Posted by: esquared at August 3, 2007 12:15 PM

Esquared,

Two points
1)In a state of war anything can happen.

2)Islam has not been declared an illegal doctrine. When that happens ... refer to point one.

Posted by: Sebastien at August 3, 2007 12:22 PM

leonthepigfarmer:

europe, expecially the uk, is on the verge of full scale civil war.

I hate to put the dampers on your prediction of apocalypse, but as someone who lives in the UK I think your comment is a gross exaggeration.

SOS we need help!

No, we need to help ourselves by reversing the trends of political correctness, multiculturalism and the appeasement of those who have no respect for our way of life.

I think Hugh's comment regarding how ethnic Germans were expelled from Czechoslovakia is a strong hint about how we should deal with our simmering Muslim populations.

Note to Sebastien: I like beer (though tend to drink wine these days, most of it French - I've got a 1998 Chateauneuf du Pape sitting at home) but don't watch Eastenders or indeed any soaps. Soaps rot the brain. Mind you, so does wine if you drink enough of it.

Posted by: watling at August 3, 2007 12:42 PM

If that ain't a solid substantial fifth column in the original sense of the term, I can't imagine what would be.

Posted by: joeblough at August 3, 2007 1:23 PM

Hi Watling,

I'm half British myself and I base my wild sweeping analysis on personal first hand observation.

I should have said 'get drunk' instead of 'drinking beer'. I hope that you enjoy your Chateauneuf. I have never been very good at keeping a bottle for more than a few days.

When muslims point out the binge drinking and slutty women, I have to be honest and concede the point.

And East Enders viewers are pretty much all infected with the Diana virus. Watching a East Enders character solve a (usually self inflicted) personal crisis is unbearably painful. They are clueless and pathetic.

I never met an East Enders viewer who wasn't emotionally immature and who had to empathize with every cause going.

In fact it may even be East Enders the root cause of the British malaise.

Posted by: Sebastien at August 3, 2007 1:26 PM

Fake numbers --- what I like to call dastisticks (tm) --- ain't gonna make Britain's horrible problem go away.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at August 3, 2007 1:42 PM

Sad to see such a divided world.

Posted by: fenianhombre at August 3, 2007 2:17 PM

Roaming in thought over the Universe, I saw the little that is Good steadily hastening towards immortality,
And the vast all that is call’d Evil I saw hastening to merge itself and become lost and dead.

-- Walt Whitman

Posted by: redg27 at August 3, 2007 2:57 PM

Sebastien

you've answered your own question!

the british public are sleep walking their way to a full scale civil war, similar to the war in former yugoslavia.

how?

a) well the break up of the united kingdom, scotland's devolution and soon to be followed with welsh devolution.

b) the socialist destruction of british national identity adn the end of british nationalism, due to the break up of the british union.

c)the rise in english nationalism.

d) the islamic unrest has already begun, we have seen massive riots in bradford, leeds and oldham. 1 in 11 support suicide bombers. there are thousands of jihadists waiting to attack. we have seen bombs go off, ethnic cleansing of whites from areas in oldham. some areas are no go zones for whites.

so you see, the UK is on the verge of full scale civil war, the only ones doing the fighting at the moment are the muslim extremists and the british are, well let's just say they are enjoying their beer and eastenders a little too much to be bothered with the destruction of their heritage within 60 years.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at August 3, 2007 3:23 PM

just remember, Serbia will lose kosovo, their spiritual homeland in just 60 years due to mass illegal immigration from albania. you don't think it's not gonna happen to the UK? it's already half way there.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at August 3, 2007 3:30 PM

sorry i meant to say that serbia has almost already lost kosovo! in 60 yrs time kosovo will be the spring board for attacks against belgrade.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at August 3, 2007 3:36 PM

Hi Leon,

Agree with everything you say. It will happen sooner rather than later

Posted by: Sebastien at August 3, 2007 4:53 PM

Just worth mentioning. The figure of 1.6m Muslims in The UK is a 2000 census figure. Since then, Blair's NuLabour has allowed in millions of immigrants and asylum seekers, who have been given citizenship in short order. The real figure of muslims in the UK is likely to be around 3 million.

Posted by: DP111 at August 3, 2007 5:14 PM

3 million already since the 1950's, bomb attacks on the british, ethnic cleansing of whites in heavy pakistan areas, riots in oldham leeds etc, decline in british population massive rise in muslim population. seems like the UK willgo the same way as kosovo pretty soon. if u disagree with this then just go look what happened in kosovo.

btw, i lived in the UK for 30 years, british citizen travel there 3 timnes per year, have family friends there so if you ask me, i happen to know whats really going on.

ps i lived near somers town in london, a heavy bangladesh/pakistani neighbourhood, plenty of stabbings against whites who wander into "their" areas.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at August 3, 2007 10:50 PM

watling

i agree that we need to deport many of them, but at the moment the british people are still in deep slumber. we need to awaken arthur eh?

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at August 3, 2007 10:52 PM