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The list just keeps growing. No word yet, however, on any demonstrations planned to wish "dath" on Osama bin Laden or any of the others who have, as we're endlessly told, "hijacked" Islam.
An AP photo (thanks to Infidel Avatar).
Posted by Robert at August 7, 2007 7:30 AM
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OT
Anyone have the Aug 6 2007 Channel 4 Dispatches program? Is the video posted anywhere?
Posted by: Borg![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at August 7, 2007 7:48 AM
BATH for Osama and Adam
(sulfuric acid)
at August 7, 2007 7:50 AM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Hearts and minds campaign not going well then!
I think if the real Bush turned up there ....the peoples would too stunned to know what to do.
I'm sure you would not take too kindly to other nation's war machines to come to the Amerike to hunt for criminals by a foreign nation....the same is for Pak.
Pak now knows very well that terror does not pay.... and that there are complexities which need to be separated from Islam.
Hukamat is looking at this carefully....indeed some of the best minds from the ISI are looking into this...and results and strategies should be forthcoming shortly....
In the meantime please keep your politicans under control....Obama especially...being a muslim he should be ashamed to even mention the word Pakistan and bomb in the same sentence.
Posted by: Naseem at August 7, 2007 7:58 AM
Obama says he is a Christian and attends a Christian church.
His mother was a Christian and so were his grandparents who raised him and sent him to church.
Posted by: CGW at August 7, 2007 8:03 AM
These islamists clowns are breaking their own rules about creating art out of people, l am sure mo is not happy about this. l would give them an F grade for their sorry looking art.
Naseems dont your muslims every hold down a job or they always ranting and seething with rage when rioting? you guys have too much time on your hands. you need to relax and have a good beer on your hot summer days.
at August 7, 2007 8:03 AM
Tancredo! Tancredo! He's got it right from the get-go. Let the Pakeez & 'Rage-boy' scream to their hateful hearts delight!
Posted by: descendantofacrusader at August 7, 2007 8:06 AM
"Anyone have the Aug 6 2007 Channel 4 Dispatches program? Is the video posted anywhere?"
I haven't been able to find it.
A previous Despatches Programme called 'Undercover mosque' was posted on YouTube, so the August 6 programme may turn up there eventually.
Posted by: Burnside at August 7, 2007 8:09 AM
Look at what hate speech can be found on JihadWatch! Robert Spencer must be chastised for this type of speech!
-XRDC
P.S. - Tancredo in '08
Posted by: XRDC at August 7, 2007 8:20 AM
The listing of those on the dath list reminds me of the scene from the jerk
Navin R. Johnson: Well I'm gonna to go then. And I don't need any of this. I don't need this stuff, and I don't need you. I don't need anything except this.
[picks up an ashtray]
Navin R. Johnson: And that's it and that's the only thing I need, is this. I don't need this or this. Just this ashtray. And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that's all I need. And this remote control. The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that's all I need. And these matches. The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control and the paddle ball. And this lamp. The ashtray, this paddle game and the remote control and the lamp and that's all I need. And that's all I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one - I need this. The paddle game, and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches, for sure. And this. And that's all I need. The ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, this magazine and the chair.
[walking outside]
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079367/quotes
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at August 7, 2007 8:22 AM
Yes, "dath" to the infidels. Apparently, the ability to spell isn't uppermost on the list of a jihadist's priorities.
Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 7, 2007 8:24 AM
Naseem...during WW2 a Hitler look alike, dressed like Hitler in uniform, paraded around down town New York. All he got were stares. These days someone with a cell phone would call the police.
Other nations war machines...I dont think the people of any nation look forward to being invaded, either by force or invitation. Anytime in history that this has happened, something is wrong, and in the end, it is the people who pay for it.
Good luck to Hukamat...Complexities are multiplicities of simplexities. I dont think too many Quranic and Allahaholic absolutists are going to go for anything comming out of these *best minds*, other than "Allahu Akbar".
Keep your politicians under control...Can you control Mushy? Haha...Geo Bush does not say, or do anything, untill he calls me first to get permission...I think you are right about Obama...
By the way, what does DATH mean in Arabic, or is that just local slang meaning, * We love you guys, we just have a strange way of showing it*.
Posted by: duh_swami at August 7, 2007 8:31 AM
DATH must be a reference for Tancredo...
Is he one of those cigar aficionados or something?
-XRDC
Posted by: XRDC at August 7, 2007 8:33 AM
"Apparently, the ability to spell isn't uppermost on the list of a jihadist's priorities."
Oh, come on GetBornAgain, cut them some slack. It's hard to find time for proper English lessons between two slaughters of infidels. :-))))
Posted by: Proud_Islamophobe at August 7, 2007 8:36 AM
You have to give these lugnuts credit. They are bilingual after all. "Dath" to Bush of America! In the background it say's death to Obama. Are those epitaphs wearing levis?
Posted by: mustang65 at August 7, 2007 8:40 AM
The more the “Muslim world” acts like animals, the more they are treated like animals - which is exactly what they want. It is an exploitation of what Bruce Thorton calls “Third-worldism” that is prevalent amongst the western left. It is the perception that exotic, dark-skinned denizens of impoverished countries are like animals in a nature documentary. They are "Noble Savages;" don’t disturb them in their natural habitat or they might bite you.
It is like that filmaker who was eaten by bears. No one blames the bears because they are mere beasts whos behavior is governed by instinct. In fact, the filmaker was to blame because of his deliberate agitation. So it is amongst elite, academically trained, liberals and their so called expertise in human sociology. The weaker socio-economic classes in society have been denied too much wealth and education to fully understand the nuances of moderation and self-discipline. Like starving dingos snatching babies, the oppressed proletariat will often lash out unreasonably at their masters in despiration. But of course the oppressor’s behavior is the "root cause."
To the Left, even “moderate muslims” are what Tim Blair refers to as “terrorist forming insects,” who can only react to stimuli and will metamorphasize into bloodthirsty terrorists because of some offense that we have done to them, like the war in Iraq, support for Israel, drawing cartoons, or knighting Salman Rushdie.
This childish vision of humanity is exactly what Muslim radicals want, because the solution propsed by liberal elites becomes that of more capitulation to their demands - creeping sharia law and the cessation of the persecution of jihadists, which will enable the eventual Muslim Hegemony they seek. It is like demanding the stoppage of suburban sprawl to protect the habitat of some endangered species - one that is higher than you on the food chain and will unrepentantly eat you at the first chance they get. Even womens rights activists avoid adressing issues like the burqa, wife beating, and female genital mutilation in the muslim world in fear of stimulating the wild beast of Islam with western ethnocentrism.
The problem is, of course, that Mulsims as well as every other “third worlder,” are human beings. They have the same rights and responsibilities of everyone else, and therefore, their actions must be judged with the same universal standard that the left places on white people and Jews.
at August 7, 2007 8:57 AM
I don't know, you guys... I was certain the one English word all Mohammedans could spell was "death". (We already know Pakistanis can't spell "America".)
I think this is a phony protest, enacted by enraged second-grade dropouts.
And, where is Rage Boy? I'm starting to miss him.
Posted by: Abscedere at August 7, 2007 9:00 AM
Meanwhile, Naseem, are you able to step out and publicly proclaim that you're Ahmadi?
Didn't think so....must be one of those complexities which need to be separated from Islam.'
Posted by: Vee at August 7, 2007 9:04 AM
Tancredo! Tancredo! He's got it right from the get-go. Let the Pakeez & 'Rage-boy' scream to their hateful hearts delight!
Posted by: descendantofacrusader at August 7, 2007 8:06 AM
Tom Tancredo has always got it right, controversial or not. That is because he, unlike white house, cares for America. Given the sellout senate and impotent congress, America cannot go wrong with Tom Tancredo: http://www.teamtancredo.com/
Posted by: Alert at August 7, 2007 9:10 AM
Yes, "dath" to the infidels. Apparently, the ability to spell isn't uppermost on the list of a jihadist's priorities.
Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 7, 2007 8:24 AM
Unlike Hinduism, that places highest value on knowledge (Hindus pray to goddess Saraswati, the goddess of knowledge), Islam cares for nothing other than hostility, violence and destruction. Mo made sure, jahil as muslims are, jihad and katl gets a higher priority than ilm.
Posted by: Alert at August 7, 2007 9:17 AM
Tancredo has now officially made it - his very own "dath" sign. I like the man and his stance against amenesty and his ideas on education. Looking forward to the NH Primary (Still first in the nation!)!
at August 7, 2007 9:17 AM
I am offended by the picture of the American flag burning, it is a sacred symbol to me and my fellow Americans....and Naseems comments don't respect my patriotic sensitivities, this is discrimination towards Americans........it just doesn't sound right from this angle. Maybe cause in the good ol' U.S.A. we let sh*t roll off our backs and work hard too overcome what others think about us. F@*K pakistan and the whole mid-east. With the exception of Isreal, I hope the rest of the mid-east burns. In the late 80's there was a metal band named S.O.D.(Stormtroopers of Death) and they had this song titled "F--- the Middle East" the lyrics of that tune are so true.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 7, 2007 9:18 AM
Naseem, why don't you seek the Islamic Rage Boy as your husband. He is perfect for you.
Posted by: The Resistance at August 7, 2007 9:22 AM
I am offended by the picture of the American flag burning, it is a sacred symbol to me and my fellow Americans.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 7, 2007 9:18 AM
Given the weak messages of submission sent out by white house (iftaar dinners, sensitivity training, dancing to Riyadh's tunes etc..), muslims are emboldened to denounce anyone and anyone in US specially the hnorable US flag. Tom Tancredo will make sure this nonsense comes to a stop, if not an end: http://www.teamtancredo.com/
Posted by: Alert at August 7, 2007 9:27 AM
Keep your dumb protests coming, Mohammedans.
The more you do, the more people worldwide hate you!
Posted by: darcy at August 7, 2007 9:30 AM
I havent found the Dispatches prog, but i did watch it and I felt like rage boy, was I seething!!!
Anyway, its made a splash here in the UK see this article
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/07/ntv107.xml
and this comment from same paper, see the comments added by readers, people are waking up, one mentions Robert's works (NIKI - who tells it like it is)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/08/07/dl0702.xml
Posted by: g hadi hater at August 7, 2007 9:32 AM
Darth to Frickin' Batman and Huge! Dath to all the farging bastiges and ice-holes in Congress, too, meaning also! Dath to EVERYONE...no exceptions.
Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at August 7, 2007 9:33 AM
"He should be ashamed to even mention the word Pakistan and bomb in the same sentence".
Posted by: Naseem
ROFLMAO! Ouch, I've pulled something now I need a doctor. Better make sure I don't get one of those spontaneous combustible Pakistani ones.
Posted by: Jihadtobejoking at August 7, 2007 9:37 AM
Assalamau Laikum The Resistance,
You say "why don't you seek the Islamic Rage Boy as your husband. He is perfect for you".
Ah!!!...actually he is not.
1) He lives in india not Pak.
2) He is not Ahmadi (nor likely to become one).
3) Although he sports a beard ...he does not shave his moustache as requested by Ahadith...the beard looks nowhere near as good.
Remember peoples ...it's not just about hearts & minds...it's abourt beards too.
Posted by: Naseem at August 7, 2007 9:40 AM
Tancredo & Gingrich 2008. Better yet Tancredo & Boortz. Best yet Tancredo, Savage & Boortz 2008.I'm sooooo sick & tired of islamo-fascist, and dhimmi politicians, entertainers & journalists. If these islamo-tards ever do step up to the plate and try to attack us(physically) again, there are gonna be millions of P.O'd Americans sending their asses back over to the mid-east in coffins. I put physically in parenthesis because we all know they are doing their best to attack us legally. The dhimmi Politicians will be voted out. Nobody will watch the news or read the dhimmi publications (N.Y.Times...etc.) and hopefully no one will support the crap that these stupid entertainers spew. The last one is probably gonna be the toughest though.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 7, 2007 9:42 AM
Naseem - you're funny sometimes. Keep the funny observations and drop the da'wa. You have potential.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses
at August 7, 2007 9:48 AM
Mohammedans are so dumb. I mean, look at these sheeple! It's like they're little kids in a schoolyard playing at being grownups. And the misspelled word! "Fun With Dick and Jane" is too advanced for them.
Posted by: darcy at August 7, 2007 10:01 AM
"Hearts and minds campaign not going well then!"
-Naseem
Yeah...'bout as well as your attempts to convert us.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at August 7, 2007 10:01 AM
I'm imagining Tancredo kicked back with a lit cigar laughing at this picture!
I've always looked at these scenes and wondered what it'd be like to be there and witness it first hand (from the cockpit of a A-10 or Cobra or Apache) 'cause I get pissed off when I see our flag burned. Where's a 'daisey cutter' when you need it...
at August 7, 2007 10:02 AM
What a bunch of whinning crybabies. GROW UP Muslims and get with the 21st century please!. Thank-you
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at August 7, 2007 10:04 AM
Comments at New York Times on Tancredo
Not too different from the photo above.
My comment and a poster's reply:
Old Atlantic:
August 6th,
2007
10:46 pm
If its true that this would unite the Muslim world against us, why should we have Muslim immigration?
How can one at the same time say Tancredo is wrong because Muslims will unite against us and say Virgil Goode is wrong to stay stop Muslim immigration?
— Posted by Old Atlantic
Reply by Doug Johnston: August 7th, 2007 7:38 am
"For starters, folks–MUSLIMS ARE NOT OUR ENEMY.
The fact that a few–a tiny percentage of a tiny slice–have gotten caught up in this destructive jihadist mindset–and the U.S. government seems to one of the primary focuses of their fury–does not mean the vast majority of Muslims who are peace loving, law abiding citizens of this and just about every other country on the planet are terorists plotting against this country.
To suggest nuking their two holiest places if some member(s) of their faith chose to attack us?"
Doug Johnston
My reply not yet posted through their system:
To Doug Johnston
Some are criticizing Tancredo by saying that it would unite Muslims against us. Do you think that Muslims would unite against us?
Also, how do you deal with Muslims in the US or UK or French military using nuclear weapons from those inventories against us? What do we do then? More Muslim immigration? Keep Muslims in the military?
Posted by: Old Atlantic at August 7, 2007 10:04 AM
Tom Tancredo must be shaking, shaking with laughter over this one.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at August 7, 2007 10:07 AM
Well, they do say they love dath more than we love life so I'm not at all surprised by the typically benevolent message of the peaceful ones.
Too bad there aren't more of them seeking the dath they love so much-it would do the infidel world some good if the peaceful ones voluntarily thinned out their ranks a little.
at August 7, 2007 10:17 AM
The Resistance,
You say "why don't you seek the Islamic Rage Boy as your husband. He is perfect for you".
Ah!!!...actually he is not.
1) He lives in india not Pak.
2) He is not Ahmadi (nor likely to become one).
3) Although he sports a beard ...he does not shave his moustache as requested by Ahadith...the beard looks nowhere near as good.
Remember peoples ...it's not just about hearts & minds...it's abourt beards too.
Posted by: Naseem
Naseem wouldn't marry the Islamic Rage Boy unless the Islamic Rage Boy is gay. Naseem is of the male gender -pretending to be a woman on this website - probably a fantasy thing.
Naseem is also living in the UK. Pathetic
Posted by: The Goobs at August 7, 2007 10:18 AM
"Dath to Tancredo" -- and Bush and Obama
Death Wish xxxx - Now playing in a cinema near you.
Posted by: DP111 at August 7, 2007 10:38 AM
Virgil Goode is SO RIGHT.
Stop Mohammedan immigration to the U.S. NOW!
To our President: Why are you letting in The Enemy? Really, I'd like an explanation, please.
Posted by: darcy at August 7, 2007 10:41 AM
What a bunch of morans. Don't they have Microsoft spell-checker in Pakiland?
Posted by: Professor PyroSkank at August 7, 2007 10:47 AM
Wow, this is an honor for Tom Tancredo!
Tancredo 2008!!!
Posted by: atheling at August 7, 2007 10:50 AM
In the words of that great American, Daffy Duck,
"Dath Dethpicable!" :-)
Shalom,
Theosebes
at August 7, 2007 10:57 AM
Dath to everyone. We are bomm yuo as much times as we can kioll you many times over all.
Sincerely,
ACKMEHD
Posted by: n.a. palm at August 7, 2007 11:01 AM
g hadi hater -- Thank you for those links. And well done, NIKI, whoever you are!
Posted by: Josephine at August 7, 2007 11:05 AM
Tom Tancredo is the only presidential candidate who says stop all immigration and has introduced a resolution to do it.
Its already a published theorem in genetics that one-way migration causes complete genetic replacement. See below. Tancredo is the only one telling the truth about immigration, when its already published as a theorem that it causes complete genetic replacement.
Population Genetics Island Model One Way Migration
quote
We investigated various cases of the island model with stochastic migration. If the population is infinite, the immigrants have a fixed gene frequency and the alleles are neutral, the gene frequency on the island converges to that of the immigrants.
end quote
Genetics. 1979 January; 91(1): 163–176.
The Island Model with Stochastic Migration
Thomas Nagylaki
Department of Biophysics and Theoretical Biology, The University of Chicago, 920 East 58th Street, Chicago, Illinois 60637
See following for less technical proof of a theorem that says a little more than the Island Model.
Immigration Vanishing Survival Theorem
Tom Tancredo is the only one willing to act on a truth already published in genetics journals and textbooks.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at August 7, 2007 11:08 AM
"...a tiny percentage of a tiny slice..."
From a comment in response to Old Atlantic's comment on another board.
If that tiny percentage of that tiny slice equaled 100 jihadis, I might agree with him. But how many billion Muslims are in the world and what percentage of that supports jihad? One million, at least?
(Sorry, I'm lousy at remembering this type of figure.)
Posted by: Josephine at August 7, 2007 11:11 AM
Four legs good, two legs bad.
Two legs bad, four legs good.
Four legs good, two legs bad.
Two legs bad, four legs good.
at August 7, 2007 11:11 AM
Looks like the love for the US is bipartisan, er tripartisan - Tancredo on the Right, Obama on the Left, Bush in the Center... They forgot HRC, who urged that nukes shouldn't be taken off the list of options.
Can this become a platform to unite Dems & GOP? Don't hold your breath.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 7, 2007 11:15 AM
Also, how come they spelt America correctly - as Naseem says, isn't it spelt 'Amriki'?
Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 7, 2007 11:17 AM
I tried to make a comment on the New York Times’ Tancredo thread contrasting the reader comments with the Qu’ran. This comment appears to have not made it through the filter:
Muslims are not our enemy.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you.
…the idea itself is downright crazy and an insult to Islam.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
...consequences of mad actions on our part.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
I think the government should put Hannibal Lector’s mask on this man to keep his mouth shut!.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them.
This comment got through from Ned though:
It’s not only crazy - it’s racist.
at August 7, 2007 11:28 AM
The statements of both Obama and Tancredo cause me to question their judgment. It is all well and good to consider such options...in private. Running one's yap about them in public with a world-wide audience is just plain stupid.
I hope, for their families' sake, that neither one of them plays poker.
Posted by: USBeast at August 7, 2007 11:30 AM
Josephine - let's be generous and say only 3% of the Ummah is militant and jihadi.
That still totals 36,000,000. Thirty-six million.
Then you have the percentage of people willing to support jihad through material aid and public support. That's a lot of millions.
at August 7, 2007 11:34 AM
Man, I have to pull out my Orwell collection. Have 'em all...English Lit Sr Seminar in college.
To describe the current world environment as 'Orwellian' would be an understatement!
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at August 7, 2007 11:36 AM
My reply not yet posted through their system:
To Doug Johnston,
Pull your head out Doug.
at August 7, 2007 11:40 AM
This has become a serious matter. Some people want to play the role of dictators to the USA. They tell you who they want to become the President - who should run and who should not run. Your screening doesn't matter. Or those who screen must put into consideration their demands. This they are doing because they have understood that we listen to things like demonstrations (Because of free speech) etc. If not, what has these demonstrators to do with the politics in the United States? Who is engineering these people? When we say that Islam wants political supremacy, it shows everyday in their day to day manifestations
I think that the leaders of the West should have the guts and think clearly on what their people want and not what the Islamists want them to do. We pay attention to international diplomacy but that is based on how it is going to benefit the citizens of our country. The earlier we stop giving concessions to these people and start thinking independently, the better for us and our children. What do we do to enhance our security? What do we do to become free from dependency on oil? ...
at August 7, 2007 11:44 AM
Josephine, I think it comes to the round figure of 100,000,000.
Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 7, 2007 11:45 AM
This has become a serious matter. Some people want to play the role of dictators to the USA. They tell you who they want to become the President - who should run and who should not run. Your screening doesn't matter. Or those who screen must put into consideration their demands. This they are doing because they have understood that we listen to things like demonstrations (Because of free speech) etc. If not, what has these demonstrators to do with the politics in the United States? Who is engineering these people? When we say that Islam wants political supremacy, it shows everyday in their day to day manifestations
I think that the leaders of the West should have the guts and think clearly on what their people want and not what the Islamists want them to do. We pay attention to international diplomacy but that is based on how it is going to benefit the citizens of our country. The earlier we stop giving concessions to these people and start thinking independently, the better for us and our children. What do we do to enhance our security? What do we do to become free from dependency on oil? ...
at August 7, 2007 11:45 AM
Nwachinemere,
It's called 'Bread & Circuses'. Look it up on Wikipedia.
The Romans had the idea first.
Keep the population overworked, stressed out, too tired to cook (so they'll eat poorly, get fat and die). Deny them adequate vacations (check out Europe - we fall WAY BEHIND).
Romans knew that to prevent an uprising, you had to keep the population happy with plenty of food and entertainment.
Food is abundant in the Weat and we have cable/sattelite television where overweight, stress-out, overworked folks can sit, eat and be entertained (foget about their troubles).
See, if folks become successful or have too much time on their hands, they ALWAYS become political. So, the idea is to hold them down so they won't. Meanwhile, the machine continues to produce our 'choices' for politicians. Of course these choices are puppets that serve the machine.
Posted by: The Goobs at August 7, 2007 11:51 AM
It matters not that Obama's mummy took him to Church. It matters not what Obama thinks he is. Any male child born to a muslim father is considered by muslims to be a muslim. Right now he is an apostate and he doesn’t even realize it, or does he, he has avoided the born to a muslim dad thing, religiously. And his mother is white his father black, he wants to be the first black pres. well how can he do that? Is he all black or half black, is he all muslim or half muslim? No, he was born all muslim, his dad took off and his mummy took care of him but he insults her almost daily, my guess is that if he would treat his mummy this way he will do the same to us. Know your muslim rulebook or figure out too late what you thought you knew. Again, any male child born to a muslim father is considered by muslims to be a muslim. Any male child born to a muslim father that violates this rule is an apostate. Thatisall.
Posted by: tgusa at August 7, 2007 12:05 PM
pez [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 7, 2007 11:28 AM
Pez, they may take a long time. Try posting one segment a little later.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at August 7, 2007 12:06 PM
interestinconundrum spot on.
Josephine good point. Also, they only took out a tiny slice out of each the twin towers and the Pentagon on 9-11.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at August 7, 2007 12:09 PM
This is OT...I found it while looking at the "Bread and Circuses" search, but read this article on how China (who is no help in the war, and is probably acting with the jihadists against us) is poisoning us.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/
/Yes the source is far right but that doesn't make the article wrong.
at August 7, 2007 12:32 PM
"I think it comes to the round figure of 100,000,000."
Posted by: interestinconundrum
To echo A_Plague_on_Both_Houses:
"That's a lot of millions."
Thanks to both of you for the stats.
"Also, they only took out a tiny slice out of each the twin towers and the Pentagon on 9-11."
Posted by: Old Atlantic
Well said.
I'm in Canada and I still remember 9/11 every time I hear an airplane overhead (that's several times a day where I live).
I also remember the eerie silence in the skies that lasted for three days because all flights had been stopped.
9/11 was the clearest, most unambiguous declaration of war that could be sent, but because there is no Muslim authority equivalent to the Pope, and the terrorists weren't wearing the uniform of one country's military, it has been attributed to the "tiny slice" of Muslims.
What's that saying about "death by a million tiny cuts"? Maybe we should change it to "jihad by a million tiny slices of Islam".
No matter how thinly you slice it, jihad is jihad.
Posted by: Josephine at August 7, 2007 12:46 PM
“Ten thousand Chinese become Christians each day, according to a stunning report by the National Catholic Reporter's veteran correspondent John Allen, and 200 million Chinese may comprise the world's largest concentration of Christians by mid-century, and the largest missionary force in history. [1] If you read a single news article about China this year, make sure it is this one.” http://atimes.com/atimes/China/IH07Ad03.html
Can anyone say human wave? In the meantime be careful what you ( and your pets) ingest. Their gubment isn’t labeled the red Chinese for nothing.
at August 7, 2007 12:48 PM
"I tried to make a comment on the New York Times’ Tancredo thread contrasting the reader comments with the Qu’ran. This comment appears to have not made it through the filter..."
pez -- Well done. I hope your comment makes it onto their comments board.
If not, that would really shed light on their bias, wouldn't it?
Maybe they'll call you a "known purveyor of hatred" for daring to quote the Koran thereby "encouraging and justifying the extremists".
Posted by: Josephine at August 7, 2007 12:56 PM
Does anyone think that Tancredo was singled out because of Jihad Watch?
Exhibit A:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/017636.php
Posted by: Greek Fire at August 7, 2007 1:23 PM
Remember peoples ...it's not just about hearts & minds...it's abourt beards too.
Posted by: Naseem
Yes, and it's about depilating the arm pits and depilating the hair on your nuts and the hair on your anus. It's also about tormenting and possibly killing infidels, braying at the moon god allah, genuflecting in front of the sacred black rock of satan, and of course, wiping your bung hole with rocks.
Not just about hearts and minds.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at August 7, 2007 1:28 PM
"Tancredo has said that threatening to bomb Mecca SHOULD be an option if Muslim terrorists use a nuke against the US. What other option is there? He has said that if anyone can think of a better deterrent then he is willing to listen."
Deterrent? Incitement is more like it. I guarantee that the message that made it down to the Muslim street is "America plans to bomb Mecca!" I also guarantee that every Christian shrine in Europe and the ME has just been placed on the target list. Way to go, Tom.
Of course it should be an option but one that should be kept under wraps not paraded around in the emperor's new clothes.
Both Tacredo and Obama have violated W. C. Field's sage rule: "Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump."
Posted by: USBeast at August 7, 2007 1:47 PM
USBeast:
"Of course it should be an option but one that should be kept under wraps not paraded around in the emperor's new clothes."
Well, I disagree. What good is a deterrent if you keep it a secret?
Still waiting to hear your alternative.
at August 7, 2007 2:08 PM
Does anyone think that Tancredo was singled out because of Jihad Watch?
Posted by: Greek Fire at August 7, 2007 1:23 PM
Tom Tancredo was singled out because he spoke brave words against the murderous ideology and ofcourse any other excuse will also do fine because, not to forget, 'war is deception'.
Posted by: Alert at August 7, 2007 2:10 PM
Yes we must be extremely careful. Cartoons drive them to target Christians, so let’s stop the cartoons someone will get killed. People are going to be killed no matter what is said not matter what we do. It is what they do, period. If they aren’t killing they are praying/calling/marching for the killing of someone, primarily this weeks villain.
“We are fighting to destroy the enemy. We are dealing with evil and its roots and its roots are America. Sheikh Mubarek Ali Gilani, Founder of Jamaat ul-Fuqra”
Islamberg USA, and what are we worried about, Tancredo, brilliant! Take that statement and substitute mecca for America. The difference, Tancredo is an American in America, the others are islamists in America. So who is the greater threat Tom or Fukra? I see much of the same outrage that I saw when Reagan condemned the Soviets as an evil empire. The enemy has changed but the rhetoric hasn’t. How will his statement play out, only the future will show. Tancredo=Bait. He did it to himself, for us, right or wrong.
“Paul Williams explosive expose on Jamaat ul-Fuqra and Islamberg.”
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/08/paul-williams-i.html
at August 7, 2007 2:16 PM
tgusa
You are absolutely correct that muslims claim Obama Hussein as one of their own because of birth. I believe they are not saying much now in hopes that he is elected; the they will deal with it. In the meantime, OHB's church is also on their side against US interests.
at August 7, 2007 2:44 PM
TexasInfidel,
Yes I know, I don’t make the rules I just point them out. Hmmm, isn’t that exactly what Mr. Spencer does, and you know what they say about him. Big meany.
Regards.
at August 7, 2007 3:09 PM
WHERE do these fools get their food and shelter??!! They never seem to work!!
And now on National Palestinian Radio: "Oew.. the 'British' resident 'detainees' might be torchered if they are relseased.. so why not keep them in Gitmo??!
And HOW THE HELL CARES if they are torchered??!!!
God, why are they bellyaching about the fate of some jihadists and moslems??!!
They need to worry about US!
Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 7, 2007 3:15 PM
Hey Jihad Watch, quit putting up pictures of Islamophobia-don't you know there's a pandemic of that horrible affliction going on in the world?
Heh heh.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at August 7, 2007 3:16 PM
what is DATH - some kind of a marshmallow roasting club?
Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 7, 2007 3:18 PM
"Well, I disagree. What good is a deterrent if you keep it a secret?
Still waiting to hear your alternative."
My alternative? Okay. Start drilling everywhere there might be a puddle of oil. Quietly, calmly let it be known that we're doing it because we believe certain sources of oil to be unreliable. Change the mind-set that regards Islam as a religion and acknowlege that it is a socio-political ideology and treat it the same way we treated the Communist Party during the Cold War.
Forbid Saudi funding for schools, mosques and anything else that could be used for their propaganda.
In short, wake up, smell the coffee, tear the mask off Sodding Arabia and cut its financial throat.
Let'em have their Mecca.
at August 7, 2007 3:20 PM
Naseem, when will you realise that to these kind of people, you're an infidel as much as I am?
Your particular sect is is discriminated against and persecuted in much of 'Dar-Al-Islam'. I live in infidel Britain and you'd have more freedom to worship here than in many muslim countries.
I'm Christian and don't share many of your beliefs but I at least respect your right to hold them. You're cheerleading for the wrong side, hun.
Posted by: Infidelandlovingit at August 7, 2007 3:42 PM
OT, Teddy Roosevelt on the koran.
He must have spent some time reading Thomas Jefferson’s copy.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/08/teddy-roosevelt.html
Teddy Roosevelt is fast becoming one of the greatest Presidents of all time in my book. His speeches on immigration, Americanism, borders, language and culture and now the koran make him a visionary and a man way ahead of his time. He gave us the answers we would need almost 100 years before we would need them.
at August 7, 2007 3:55 PM
Naseem:
Your 30 seconds are up.
Now it's time for you to go running off with some cohorts in Islam and KO some more unbelievers!
Posted by: pythagoras at August 7, 2007 3:56 PM
BUSH, TANCREDO, OBAMA.. what a strange trio..
Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 7, 2007 5:12 PM
Naseem is a man and he lives in the UK.
Posted by: The Goobs at August 7, 2007 5:13 PM
tgusa,
The China story you cited has inspired me to hope.
Imagine, the Gospel completing a 2000-year odyssey
from East to West, ending where it began!
"You shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall set
you free." Amen.
at August 7, 2007 5:15 PM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Hearts and minds campaign not going well then!
[...]
Posted by: Naseem
Salami&bacon, Nazeem.
Actually it is, child.. If even Hussein-O can start talking about doing what is needed to get bin-F*ckwaden then things may just be going in the right direction.
Personally I don't trust him to actually go through with it should he ever get elected. But it shows that he realizes what Americans want to hear.
And what we wish to see done.
So, yes.. we ARE winning hearts and minds.
Namely OUR OWN.
Who cares a hoot about yours? I call you the heartless and the mindless.
What's there to win?
Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 7, 2007 5:19 PM
I love the 'Seethe-O-Matic' Pakistani protests. Is it it a franchise? :)
Posted by: Un:dhimmi at August 7, 2007 5:37 PM
3) Although he sports a beard ...he does not shave his moustache as requested by Ahadith...the beard looks nowhere near as good.
Remember peoples ...it's not just about hearts & minds...it's abourt beards too.
Posted by: Naseem
-----------------------------------
Naseem, did Abraham Lincoln follow the Ahadith? His beard was correct.
How about one of these guys?
http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/images/ptcha06/beards.jpg
http://www.earthjunior.com/images/beards-w-plane.jpg
Here's a beard for you and it's on a Muslim.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/zarqawi.gif
BTW: How long is your beard, Naseem?
Posted by: Provoslavni at August 7, 2007 5:41 PM
Salaam Naseem,
Were these two Ahmadis? They have the right beards...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/017662.php
at August 7, 2007 5:47 PM
"Hearts and minds campaign not going well then!
Their hearts and minds belong in jars of formaldehyde.
Posted by: Pelayo at August 7, 2007 6:12 PM
John C,
Glad to be of service. The Gospels being heard by everyone on Earth, Christian’s believe that the second coming will not occur until this prophecy is fulfilled, true? Chinese Christians who’d a thunk it? Inspiration can be found in the strangest places these days. I meet many Chinese visitors in my area and I will have to be honest, the ladies are quite friendly/articulate and fun, it is obvious that they genuinely like us American guys. Woohoo.
Don’t forget to label those jars, abbynormal.
at August 7, 2007 6:30 PM
Bush: Islam is a "great world religion of peace hijacked by extremists."B. Hussein Obama: Never, ever, under any circumstances should the US use nukes.
Tancredo: No military response is off the table, including the use of nuclear weapons against Islam's holiest sites.
Whom do the jihadists fear?
Whom do they mock?
And whom do they use to advance their deadly fictions?
Posted by: Amillennialist at August 7, 2007 6:31 PM
"USBeast: "Of course it should be an option but one that should be kept under wraps not paraded around in the emperor's new clothes."
atheling: "Well, I disagree. What good is a deterrent if you keep it a secret? Posted by: atheling [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 7, 2007 2:08 PM "
Exactly - Tancredo raised the issue in terms of deterrance - in other words to find something that might actually prevent jihadis from nuking an American city. If one keeps such a thing secret, but does it after the fact - that's retaliation. Of course such retaliation might in fact be morally justified, but it would do nothing to prevent the overall massive loss of life. So really - which is more civilized? To announce in advance the potential consequences, in the hopes that this will provide a deterrant against a horrific loss of life? Or to simply retaliate after the fact, even though the latter might in fact be morally justified?
at August 7, 2007 7:02 PM
If another (God Forbid) 9/11 or similar happens to us, then we take Tancredo's suggestion immediately.
Immediately.
Posted by: darcy at August 7, 2007 7:38 PM
Caroline -- Your comment about deterrence brings to mind a current article at Hot Air:
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/06/hiroshima-62-years-ago-today/
The author includes links to three previous articles and they are, in my opinion, well worth reading, especially in light of your comment.
Posted by: Josephine at August 7, 2007 7:57 PM
Well I’ve tried and tried and failed to get some Qu’ranic text posted on the New York Times Tancredo blog. Inserted into relatively neutral comments.
Have to come to the conclusion that all speech is free, but some speech is more free than others at the New Tork Times.
at August 7, 2007 7:57 PM
I stand by the post I made at 3:20 PM.
The object of any war is to deprive the enemy of its capability to make war. Neither the threat to destroy or the actual destruction of Mecca will accomplish that object.
Did we end up worshiping the God Emperor of Nippon after Pearl Harbor? Did Osama lead a victory march down Pennsylvania Avenue after 9/11? Does anyone seriously believe that a culture that "loves death" is going to cowed by a wannabe president's saber rattling?
Again, I stand by the post I made at 3:20PM, the points of which no one has bothered to answer.
Posted by: USBeast at August 7, 2007 9:02 PM
Josephine - thanks for the links. And that was AFTER the fact. All Tancredo is doing is trying to come up with something that would have, for example, prevented the Japanese from doing what they did in the first place. If the Japanese had been informed in advance of the likely outcome of their war against us - would they have persisted in the first place? And if such an announced plan would have deterred them from the get-go, would anyone have argued that it was immoral to announce such an intention? I doubt it. But when the war started, we didn't have the technology, so it was all after-the-fact. Now, of course, we do have the technology.
Of course this situation is so much more complicated, because jihadis are trans-national actors. They now have "plausible deniability" on their side. By threatening to nuke Mecca and Medina as a MAD deterrant, Tancredo is merely trying to come up with a realistic deterrant to that sort of "plausible deniability", by holding the entire ummah responsible for the actions of its trans-national members, in order to deny them the "out" of "plausible deniability" that would leave all of us infidels utterly defenseless.
If Muslims wish to be part of an "ummah" that crosses nationalistic lines, giving them just cause (as they see it) to wage jihad against even their own citizens who are not part of the ummah, then by their own moral calculus - there is nothing immoral about making it clear that if Muslims wish to make their primary allegiance to the "ummah", then Mecca and Medina (the capital of the "ummah") will be the target should any member of the "ummah" nuke one of our "non-ummah" cities.
On what grounds could members of the "ummah" themselves object? And anyone else who objects to making this honestly clear from the outset, in order to deter such a catastrophic outcome on both sides, simply doesn't understand the kind of trans-national war that we're up against. They're either living in a 20th century nation-state world - or a fantasy "kumbayya" world.
From everything I've seen, Tancredo is an honest man, trying to put out there on the table, things that need to be seriously discussed.
He apparently said that if anyone has a better idea, bring it out there. That's a great invitation to publicly discuss how to deal with transnational terrorism, and stuff like "plausible deniability" on the part of non-state actors.
It's pathetic that people are so outraged about what he said. Unfortunately, he's just ahead of his time in terms of his honesty as a public official in trying to foster an honest public debate about incredibly difficult issues that are only going to get more difficult in time.
Posted by: Caroline at August 7, 2007 9:25 PM
pez [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 7, 2007 7:57 PM
Thanks for trying. They also serve who show that their is censorship.
Posted by: Old Atlantic at August 7, 2007 9:27 PM
That should have been "there is censorship."
Posted by: Old Atlantic at August 7, 2007 9:28 PM
Dath just pathetic.
at August 7, 2007 9:50 PM
While Tancredo’s strategy is easy (for some) to understand, it would be as hard to swallow for most just as foreknowledge of the Enola Gay’s mission would have been.
The problem as I see it is that the U.S. has been tested over and over and is viewed as a paper tiger. This at least goes as far back as the Iranian embassy incident during the Carter administration. Rocky Sickman (one of the marine guards captured by Ahmedinajad and friends) to this day believes that had the troops within the embassy used up all the ammo they had, knowing that their fates would’ve been sealed, we would have gone to war and prevented subsequent hostage-taking and hijacks in the years since.
But now, Iran views the removal of Saddam in light of the removal of the Shaw. Opportunity! The U.S. has been tested consistently over the last three decades and found to “speak loud but carry a small stick.”
Congress is divided, our military is constrained, our media and news outlets have displaced ethics and morals with “business decisions” and the general populous is complacent.
…they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them.
–Proverbs 1:31-32
I agree with USBeast about supplying our own oil and outlawing wahabbism in the U.S.
Which presidential hopeful is going to expose and put an end to the evangelistic efforts of violent Islam in the U.S.? I like Tancredo and think his contributions to protecting our borders are unparalleled in congress. I just don’t think he fully comprehends the Islamist agenda. Fred Thompson has at least gone after CAIR but where is he in the debates?
No, the onus is still on us. The JW/DWers who can put two and two together, have to be the eyes and ears for our communities, share the full picture with our friends, family, and email contact lists, and keep a strong personal faith that Good will ultimately triumph over Evil.
-XRDC
at August 7, 2007 10:31 PM
Hmmm...
So, after their bath, they did their math,
and bid their enemies the wath of dath.
Oh, to ye, of little fath,
for ye hath taken the errant path
Thus sath the Lord
(sounds like a really bad Daffy Duck cartoon)
Anyone else think they desperately need a "spullchunker"?
LOL
Posted by: jcom972 at August 7, 2007 10:36 PM
jcom972 -- That is so funny! Thanks for the laugh!
"The wath of dath"!
Posted by: Josephine at August 7, 2007 11:10 PM
The little added "E"'s over the "DATH"'s is a good sign.
They accept that language is flexible and open to revision.
Thereby, the Koran may be revisable.
(If not, it's going over The Cliff at some not-too-distant date.)
Glad to see Tom T. get his Muslim street cred.
TANCREDO 2008.
Posted by: profitsbeard at August 7, 2007 11:11 PM
The MSM has spinned Tancredo’s nuke policy as “the crazy rightwingers will destroy Islam’s sites if they get into power.” This is false, and they completely disregard the practical aspects of his policy. What he said was that he was willing to hold nukes over the heads of Islamists, the real crazies, to deter them from using nuclear weapons on us. What the heck is wrong with that? Are Mecca and Medina special to us? Or something?
Posted by: ofcourse at August 7, 2007 11:19 PM
USBeast -- I personally don't disagree with you. I don't disagree with Caroline, either.
I can see both sides of the argument and I'm going to give this issue a lot of thought.
Is the destruction of a religious holy site or artifact ever justified during a war?
It really bothers me that Muslims built their holy building on top of the holiest site in Judaism.
Some Muslim groups aren't averse to destroying other people's holy sites and have done it more than once.
The Germans bombed the heck out of parts of England that included cemeteries where my ancestors were buried and buildings where their records were stored (a holy site for a genealogy buff, I assure you).
Still, two wrongs don't make a right and I do cringe at the emotional pain it would cause good Muslims (and, yes, I do believe there are good people who are Muslim). I don't care about the feelings of jihadists and their supporters.
I guess it will all depend on what is required at the time the decision is made and on who is making the decision.
Posted by: Josephine at August 7, 2007 11:24 PM
Josephine,
My argument with Tancredo is not with his sentiments. If Mecca ceased to exist my mourning period would be measured in nanoseconds. That does not mean, however, that I endorse the open threat to cause it. For a public figure in America to voice such a threat is, as I said before, just plain stupid. It is bluffing with a busted flush. A far more potent threat would be a veiled one against the true holy sites: the oil fields.
The two main sources of Islamic terrorism are Sodding Arabia and Iran. Both use oil money to advance their agendas. If we can make ourselves and (better yet) the world independent of ME oil these two threats will be reduced to potting each other off of camels with flintlocks.
And the vast majority of Muslims who are not Arabs or Persians could still make the Hadj...in peace.
This is doable...if we have the will.
Posted by: USBeast at August 8, 2007 12:04 AM
'Dath' equals misspelt 'death'.
No, no, no, no, no! They mean 'bath' as in full body immersion Baptism. They are merely advocating that we should all be born again into Christ by practising the type of Baptism that John the Baptist espoused upon immersing our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ the Son of God, in the waters of the Jordan river.
How on earth can you all be so cruel as to assume that these Muslims are so ill-educated, so wedded to a silly world-view, so vicious, cruel and at odds with their supremely peaceful Holy Book as to advocate a death sentence upon people who are merely peacefully expressing a viewpoint different from the mainstream Islamic viewpoint. After all, everyone knows that Islam is the religion of peace - hasn't that been demonstrated often enough over the last 1600 years?
I mean, for Heaven's sake, just how many Jews and Christians have these Islamics got to slaughter before you all realise that they are right and that Islam simply does not advocate killing anyone on the grounds of religious difference. I mean, if you keep on laughing at them and demonising them (it's all your fault and you must see that) then they simply have to keep an killing Jews, Christians, Hindus and all the others simply in order to prove how tolerant they are.
Look, it's quite logical if you think about it for just a minute - without being prejudiced against the Koran and Muslims, please. It's like this: they are Muslims and they have the revealed and accurate Word of God because their prophet said that his words were the revealed and accurate Words of God and we, who do not believe him, are wrong because he said that we are wrong and he said that he is the final prophet and that has to be correct because he, the final prophet, said it and therefore, because he is the final prophet everything that he says is true and we are wrong!
Oh dear. I detect a circular argument. Hmmm, so do they! Psychologically, confronted with the knowledge of a circular argument most human beings either fold their hands and re-think, or attack. Muslims always attack because for them folding is impossible - they simply have too much of their self-identity bound up in Islam and the Ummah. Giving it up would mean indulging in the type of creative thought about reality that is explicitly forbidden by the Koran.
They are creatures just like us but they are incapable of moving, as yet, beyond or outwith the straight-jacket of comfort and familiarity - in their case, Islam - because of the circular nature of the arguments that they have chosen to address and that Islam promotes. Theirs is a false intellectualism for it addresses only Islam and Islam's world-view: it does not, nor can it, address any-one else's world view excepting to condemn it as un-Islamic.
Islamics are so deeply mired in Islam as to be incapable of any empathy for the other at all. They accept as total their own viewpoints to such an extent that no others can have any validity - witness the irrational responses to any USA government's peaceful overtures: the government of the USA, almost by definition, cannot have anything in mind other than the destruction of Islam simply because any other system of world governance other than Islam has to be destructive of Islam for Islam is the only true system of governance. As reasoning goes it's weak - very weak - but, regrettably, it is precisely that type of reasoning that is dominant in the Islamic world today. Remember, please, Islam has never undergone a process similar to the enlightenment that Europe underwent. So Islam, unlike Christianity, has never had to confront and argue with the forces of reason - it has never had to move beyond the medieval.
And there, in the medieval, the primitive, the superstitious, it is stuck - with all the concommitant horrors and slaughterings and defilings of women and blood-lust and tribal sexual necessities and carnage and educational primitivism that we would expect, perhaps wrongly, from peoples of much lesser education.
Quite simply; Islam is six-hundred years behind us, thousands of years behind Judaism and Hinduism and, possibly, Buddhism, and certainly tens of millenia behind the general human questioning experience - but then, Islam denies questioning as a human experience!
And that is why Islam will lose - no matter how long it tries to hang around it will always be out-performed by all the other philosophies. It, Islam, has only got absolute answers whereas all the others have absolute questions with relative answers. The history of our race so far proves that we humans prefer the relative answer for such an answer allows room for us to be unique and individual.
Drones of Islam? Never! Free spirits always questioning? Yes! But it's hard, very, very hard. Never the less, that's where we'll go. We'll always take the challenge over the unprovable certainty - we're all Ben Franklin's children, thank God!
Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 8, 2007 12:40 AM
Did we end up worshiping the God Emperor of Nippon after Pearl Harbor? Did Osama lead a victory march down Pennsylvania Avenue after 9/11? Does anyone seriously believe that a culture that "loves death" is going to cowed by a wannabe president's saber rattling?
Again, I stand by the post I made at 3:20PM, the points of which no one has bothered to answer.
Posted by: USBeast at August 7, 2007 9:02 PM
Tancredo is not the first to suggest nuking Mecca as a deterrent to future attacks on America. When you are dealing with an enemy that does not fear death, you have to threaten that enemy with something he does fear. Muslims will eagerly die as martyrs and gladly sacrifice their fellow muslims, even their own families. They care about one thing and one thing only---islam. Mecca is the epicenter of islam and it is paramount to the practice of islam. Muslims pray toward Mecca five times a day and are required to make at least one pilgrimage there during their lifetimes to perform silly rituals around the kabah. If the kabah and Mecca were vaporized, islam would suffer a serious setback. It might survive, but allah's omnipotence would be in serious jeopardy and doubt.
Muslims have been destroying Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, and other religious icons and shrines for centuries; it would be divine justice for them to suffer the same fate on a grand scale. I doubt it will ever happen, not by the hands of a world government anyway, but the possibility of such a catastrophe might be the only way to stop the Saudi funding of terrorism and sufficiently intimidate maniacs like bin Laden. From what I've heard and read, there are civilian citizens from various Western nations who are prepared to hit islam very hard in the most vulnerable places if Europe or the U.S. are attacked with nukes or biological weapons and the respective governments do not sufficiently retaliate.
As for the God Emperor of Japan, no we didn't end up worshipping him but we sure forced him to go on national radio and declare to the Japanese people that he was not God. We destroyed the religion that turned the Japanese into fanatics willing to die for the divine Emperor. We should be doing the same thing now by making it clear to muslims that their right to practice islam in the U.S. ends when any attempts to practice or impose sharia are made. Islam clearly teaches that muslims are superior to all other people and islam is the only acceptable religion, and must be spread until it is the only religion on earth. For that reason alone, muslims have no right or justification to immigrate to the West. By allowing them to do so, we have invited disaster. What a cruel legacy to leave our children; it is shameful.
Posted by: Susanp at August 8, 2007 12:51 AM
Yes, Naseem,
Sometimes "Winning is everything".
Are you a 'Desi Squad Member'?
I'll bet you aren't, you little coward, you!
Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 8, 2007 1:40 AM
Drop a bomb on Mecca and Medina! You gonna see a bunch of rats running around with tail tucked under.
Naseem...many terrorists come from Pakistan..I am sure. And I have no sympathy for any of those Islamic nations...preferrably I like to kick all Muslims out of America...all races. This country is my country! No one else going to take it. We have one God.....and his name is Jehovah. If you cannot worship the one True God...pack bags and get on your camel and hit the road.
America will not be taken without one hell of a fight and we not scared of your "hounds from hell". They die for paradise with whores...lol...in spirit world, you dont make love! And there is no harem! Only hell awaits Muslims who worship satan "allah".
Dath to Islam! How about that! Cleanse this land of the evil before judgement is on us. By the way...God's judgement on the wicked will be so horrible that allah (satan's) judgement will be mild compared to when Jesus come back and clean house. I fear Holy God! I do not fear allah.
Each time I see Islam carry signs threatening our people the way they do and we got the morons here in our nation..make me want to kick butts and show them what a Crusade is. They only making themselves known to us and I beleive its time for Americans....Republicans and Democrats to stand up to thes Islamic hounds from hell and put them in their place (Mecca).....go east young men/women..go east , your daddy (Mohammed) is a calling you.
I like Tancredo! I like Bush ! Obama..duh!
Posted by: Cher at August 8, 2007 1:50 AM
[Disclaimer: This post isn't a genocidal post, nor is it meant to be. It however does analyze the implications of nuking Mecca, as discussed above and derivative of Tancredo's statement.]
USBeast
A threat to the oil fields is a double edged sword - it would cause a global recession. For all our bluster about doing without oil, plain fact reamins - we can't. All our transportation needs run on that. Anybody who doubts it should look at what happened a few months ago when gasoline prices were peaking - people cut back on things like eating out and other 'unnecessary' expenses, but they didn't cut back on fuel. The unfortunate fact about gasoline is that its supply directly impacts the global currency markets, and the stability of the world's economy. While capturing the oilfields and looting them would definitely make more economic sense (aside from making whoever did it a pariah on world opinion, but there ain't much that is going to hurt the US in that department), destroying them makes no sense whatsoever.
Nuking Mecca need not be the only option, let alone the first. One option could be to simply capture Mecca (and Medina), and expel all Mohammedans from those 2 cities, and ban them from going there. Imagine the shock in the Ummah. And if things don't improve, start doing things like re-modeling the Ka'aba, maybe building a synagogue in Medina or a church in Mecca - giving Mohammedans a real sense about those 2 cities being de-Islamized. Maybe do what some Sunnis recently accused the Shia of wanting to do - destroy the tombs of Abu Baqr, Umar I and Aisha, and Mohammed's itself.
About the nuking Mecca argument, one of the consequences that anyone who does that should be prepared for is the necessity to nuke all of Dar ul Islam, or at least the major population centers. After all, if the ummah is going to explode in rage, the only option in that scenario would be to drop H-bombs on a whole host of cities - Karachi, Islamabad, Peshawar, Dhaka, Putrajaya, Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Cairo, Damascus, Teheran, Qum, Mashed, Khartoum, Kandahar, Kabul, among others. I'm not against nuking Mecca, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if anyone who proposed this would also endorse the above follow-up action. But even with all that, it wouldn't even cover Infidel countries that have huge Mohammedan populations - from India with its 130m to Europe, or the US with its 2m Muslims. Which is why Tancredo, or anyone else, would do well to start with mass deportations of all Muslims (including US citizens and converts) to Mecca, and end all Mohammedan immigration to the US.
However, in the debate, Tancredo was critical of those who would take that off the table as an option, and in this, I do agree with him. And he was right about the State Department as well. Michael Medved - that ultimate Bush suck-up - tried to make the argument against that that we aren't at war with 1.3b Mohammedans. Two problems with that assertion:
at August 8, 2007 2:02 AM
Infidel Pride/
"We have no idea of how many Mohammedans we are at war with"
At least 47% in our own societies. See surveys such as 'The Times' recent survey about how many Muslims supported Al-Quaida - at least broadly.
World-wide? Probably about a billion Muslims are our enemies. It's a shame, really, that we're going to have to kill so many people in order to stay free.
Still, it can't be helped. Long term freedom is more important than their short term erroneous dictatorial and absolutist reality - at least we in the West can see that.
Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 8, 2007 2:22 AM
Assalamau Laikum all,
I know that the Amerike has awesome firepower…and you are now talking about the "never to be discussed topic" but attacking Mecca/Medina the birthplace of the prophet of Humanity, humality and font of knowledge…is simply ridiculous.
Allah SWT will prevent your weapons from detonating over these holy places. Indeed enemies have tried to attack Mecca before...with overwhelming firepower ...and failed.
An event took place in Muhd's (PBUH) birthyear that they named that year as Amul Fil (Year of elephant). At that time, Mecca was a place for commerce and pilgrimage both. Pilgrims used to go there to hajj and visit Ka’ba and also keep their commerce.
The mighty King of Yemen (at that time) got jealous about Mecca and for he knew that the main reason is Ka’ba, he made a very big shrine in Yemen and tried to invite people and merchants to go there instead… but nobody paid attention.
So foolishly he fought at Mecca with a big army powered and fronted by hugh elephants (as the battle tanks of the day)..
The peoples of Mecca were feared and they went to Abdul Muttalib, (the grandfather of prophet). It is said that he believed in Allah, one God and he was against idols. But he had kept his faith hidden. He asked the peoples to pray to Allah SWT to save their houses and he prayed also.
By the power of Allah SWT, swallows (birds) in their thousands carried stones and defended Ka’ba and defeated the army and drove back the elephants and defeated them.
There is a Sura in Quran named Al-Fil (The elephant) about this story:
“See you not how your Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant? Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray?
And He sent against them Flights of Birds,
Striking them with stones of baked clay.
Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, of which the corn has been eaten up.?
So, while you may scoff at this story as childlike…it happened…if swallows can defeat elephents….missiles too can be defeated or not allowed to detonate…do not under-estimate the power of Allah SWT….
Mecca will remain, Islam will remain...your best bet is just to join up as a peaceful wuslim.
Posted by: Naseem at August 8, 2007 4:50 AM
Dath to all who need a bath.
;-)
at August 8, 2007 8:27 AM
When mecca is hit w/ a couple of nukes I'm going to throw a huge kegger, Naseem you are invited just so we can hear that fairytale about the elephants and the swallow, that would be a goof. Maybe we can invent a beer drinking game around it.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 8, 2007 8:35 AM
"Allah will prevent your weapons from detonating over these holy places." - Nasseem
LOL! That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard!
Love how "Allah" prevented Israel from winning the 1967 six-day Arab-Israeli War in which Israel took on Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia! Uh Huh, the Jews won handily!
Gee, wonder where "Allah" was during those 6 days? Oh, I know - "he" was cowering in that Meccan meteorite!
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 8:44 AM
Notice how the Mohammedans NEVER mention the 1967 Arab-Israeli War?
LOL, gee, I wonder why?!
You can bet if they HAD won over Israel, we'd never hear the end of how "Allah" sent angels and came to their aid! But, "he" didn't, now did he?
How does a Mohammedan explain that? I don't know because I've never seen a Mohammedan bring that utter and complete embarrassment up!
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 8:48 AM
Hey Darcy maybe alluh (poo be upon him) was in mecca during the 6 day war, I was born in 67 so I really don't have a recollection. But I'm pretty sure that alluh was busy scoutin' out mecca for a 9 yr old wife or something like that. Maybe there was a end of season sale on sheep or camels, of the exploding kind I am sure.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 8, 2007 9:07 AM
LOL, americanmadestrat - Hey, may I bring the chips and dip to your kegger?
If you want to shut up a Mohammedan about "Allah," just mention that 6 day War! I wonder how they explain that to themselves? Do you have any idea?
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 9:23 AM
darcy Yeah bring chips & dip. Don't forget to bring an X-tra large beer mug. As for any fan of allahs explanation of the 6 day war, all I know is that when I read about it in school. I immediately had much respect for the israeli military. What great allies to have. Unfortunately I have always thought the islamist were scumbags, little did I know as life would go on islam would prove my feelings correct.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 8, 2007 9:40 AM
US Beast - earlier you say that we should cut the Islamic world off economically in a 'containment' strategy as we did with the Soviet bloc. That's fine and should be part of the multi-dimensional attack on the Islamic world, I agree. But this is not enough in and of itself. You address one side of the war equation, but not the other. The other is the most important.
To be successful in a war you must do two things:
+ damage or destroy the enemy's means of launching attacks
+ damage or destroy the enemy's will to continue to launch attacks
Means and Will - the more important one is Will.
Putting the occupation and destruction of Mecca up on the signpost is crucial to destroying the Islamic Will to jihad. It all began in Mecca and Medinah and must end there. Concretely. We're fighting a medieval thought system. It's 'pre-abstract' in that it's concrete and superstitious and bases many things on observable, exterior behaviors and rituals. We've commented many times on the hypocrisy in this shame/honor that we notice when muslims say 'as long as no one sees me I can do what I like (drink, illicit sex, watch Family Guy on TV, on and on). It must be demonstrated that allah has no control of the world and no control of his holy sites. Mecca is the navel of the Islamic world and the 'house of allah'. It is the most vulnerable aspect in the whole belief system. Two pillars of Islam depend on it.
With all that in mind, please consider what Naseem had to say:
I know that the Amerike has awesome firepower…and you are now talking about the "never to be discussed topic" but attacking Mecca/Medina the birthplace of the prophet of Humanity, humality and font of knowledge…is simply ridiculous.
Allah SWT will prevent your weapons from detonating over these holy places. Indeed enemies have tried to attack Mecca before...with overwhelming firepower ...and failed.
[...] , while you may scoff at this story as childlike…it happened…if swallows can defeat elephents….missiles too can be defeated or not allowed to detonate…do not under-estimate the power of Allah SWT….
Mecca will remain, Islam will remain...your best bet is just to join up as a peaceful wuslim.
If Mecca doesn't remain then Islam will not remain. At least not in the virulent form that kills muslim and infidel alike. What would remain after the systematic, conventional destruction of Mecca and Medinah would be something that the rest of the world could live with. Islam would have to change or it would be destroyed, you see, because, as Naseem says: Allah TNT has all power. Allah will prevent our weapons from detonating. Allah will intervene and transmorgify any harmful weapon into something less harmful...
So you see, when we state our intentions beforehand, and then act on them in a most public and deliberate schedule, and when we repel any forces attempting to stop us from occupying Mecca and Medinah and when we offload the bulldozers and beam it all over the world as those beautiful yellow 'elephants' roll across the empty dun-colored piles of sand, enventually going through the tans and ochres of the adobe walls and up to the navel of Islam and then through that as well.... and all of this done in a most deliberate, lumbering and public way... well, what will the fence-sitters have to say about that?
It's a 'never to be discussed topic' according to Naseem. Why? If Allah TNT is going to take care of it through miracles then why is it off-limits? Saying that we will retaliate in this manner and then actually doing it will show the world that Allah TNT is not God in any way whatsoever. The Islamic, medieval idea of 'God' is much more concrete than we imagine. To prove something to superstitious, concrete people you damage the concrete of their god. Bricks and mortar. They don't have the idea of the 'temple of the Lord inside your heart'. Allah isn't in the heart of anyone: it is supposed to be distant, omnipotent, unknowable to a human and outside humans. It's not a personal god in the sense that Jewish and Christian tradition understand that concept. It's outside the Muslim and unapproachable, but this same thing has a single point of failure for the whole system on the Earth in a point of space ===> Mecca.
We take that out and we destroy the whole Muslim mental map. Each person will be forced to a) modify the map b)replace the map.
Either way - militant, political Islam is dead along with allah.
We can kill a billion muslims and the jihad will continue. We remove Allah in his 'house' and stop the jihad. The will is destroyed when Mecca is destroyed because it shows that Allah is nothing.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 8, 2007 10:45 AM
Oh, that's good, Plague.
"It began in Mecca and Medina and it must end there."
Yeah, I see what you're saying. Should the "holy sites" be reduced to rubble it will prove that "Allah" doesn't exist. Because, in the Mohammedans' mind, "Allah" would NEVER let "his" sacred places of worship be destroyed. NEVER.
No, "Allah" is not a personal god as with our Judeo-Christian God. "allah" is completely remote.
What do you mean by "Allah TNT?"
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 11:08 AM
Naseembanu,
You can dream and drivel all you want but Allah-tala cound not save the flimsey Lal Masjid, downtown Islamabad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lal_Masjid
Aur India par kitne hamle nehin kiye musalmano ne? Kitne zulm nahin dhaye Kashmiriyon par. Lekin apna aur bekasoor shikar ka khoon bahne ke alava, kya paaya musalmanon ne? Kutch Bhi Nahin! Zara eis par bhi gaur ho. Kahin kafiron ko katl karne ke josh mein, Islamabad hi chaupat na ho jaay.
(And India has been attacked how many times? How many atrocities have been committed on Kashmiris? Other than flowing your and innocent victim's blood, what have muslims accomlished? Nothing! Think about that, for a moment. Make sure that in killing kafirs, Islamabad is not obliterated).
Khuda hafiz... you'll need it.
Posted by: Alert at August 8, 2007 11:22 AM
It's 'pre-abstract' in that it's concrete and superstitious and bases many things on observable, exterior behaviors and rituals.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses
BRAVO!
Excellent point!!!!!!
at August 8, 2007 11:23 AM
I was thinking about this issue after I signed off last night.
On a recent Michael Coren Show, Tarek Fatah mentioned that the Saudis had destroyed the grave of Mohammed's mother and had put (or was going to put) a parking lot over top of Mo's grave. He said a Saudi prince had built (or was building) a castle or condo that dwarfed an important mosque.
This shocked me. Aren't Muslim holy sites holy to all Muslims? My well-informed husband told me that, no, the Saudis think this is idolatry and their destruction of these sites has been going on for a while.
I just did a cursory internet search and found this article on the Western Resistance site:
-----
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/001966.html
April 19, 2006
"Saudi Arabia: Wahhabis Destroy Heritage Of Mecca"
-----
After reading this, my question is: if a Western country destroyed Muslim holy sites in Mecca, would it, in fact, be doing the Saudi's dirty work for them?
I've noticed that various countries have not taken out terrorist targets when they've been amassed at funerals and they have not bombed mosques, even when they've watched terrorists take cover inside.
These countries (Canada, the U.S., Israel, etc.) must be following some UN or other world body rules of engagement. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong and it's only because we're all such nice guys.) If it's against the rules to go in to funerals and mosques, guns-ablazin', surely it must be against the rules to bomb a holy site such as Mecca?
Posted by: Josephine at August 8, 2007 11:26 AM
If you want to shut up a Mohammedan about "Allah," just mention that 6 day War! I wonder how they explain that to themselves? Do you have any idea?
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 9:23 AM
.. and the three India / Pakistan wars :)
Posted by: Alert at August 8, 2007 11:29 AM
I wonder how they explain that to themselves? Do you have any idea?
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 9:23 AM
.. and the three India / Pakistan wars :)
Posted by: Alert at August 8, 2007 11:30 AM
Thank you for the kind words Darcy. I apologize for the Allah TNT jabs. Naseem and other muslims always follow mention of the name Allah with a variation on SWT. I think of Allah as a destructive force and so I bastardize it to TNT (tri-nitro toulene - a high explosive) because I like to think I'm being 'cute'.
I don't think this jihad nor the Muslim mindset will change until they have no alternative. The mechanisms for reform or substantive change in the belief system are not in place and have not been accessible since Ijtihad was closed in the ?eleventh or twelfth century A.D.?
They can't fix it because the system is now a closed circle. They can't escape it because it's a closed circle. The circle has to be broken from the outside and preferrable through the use of Caterpillar bulldozers & earth movers made in Peoria, Illinois ( aka the Middle of America aka God's country ) Islam can't fix itself because the muslim mind was closed long ago. The mind must be broken into pieces and the ultimate way to do this is in Mecca. Nothing else is 'sacred' and belief system relies on Mecca in two major ways - prayer and hajj and underneath as proof of 'god' playing a part in our world.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 8, 2007 11:30 AM
"Mecca will remain, Islam will remain...your best bet is just to join up as a peaceful wuslim."
-----------------
Daydreaming? You are being betaen up on every front.This is not medieval world. But you people are living in medieval world and daydreaming.Today's world is better equipped to confront islam and its aggressor mentality.For thousand years you were in India, but what about Hindus? Buddhists? Jains? Sikhs? Parsis? When you can't convert a small piece on this earth into muslim land forget about the rest of the world.
at August 8, 2007 11:36 AM
For thousand years you were in India, but what about Hindus? Buddhists? Jains? Sikhs? Parsis? When you can't convert a small piece on this earth into muslim land forget about the rest of the world.
Posted by: Nobody at August 8, 2007 11:36 AM
It won't be surprising if Pakistan is turned into India's garbagr-dump, given Jinnah stole India's land in the first place.
Posted by: Alert at August 8, 2007 11:56 AM
Though we're obviously having some problems in the short run, Islam will eventually be crushed, just like other Supremacist groups have been. As long as the Mohammedans kept quiet and didn't force themselves on the rest of the world, that was fine.
But now, since Sept. 11 (1683/2001), they have been forcing themselves on the rest of the world. That is not fine. And the world is going to say "Enough."
Just the "End Islamization of Europe" protest in Brussels on Sept. 11, a month from now, shows you that people are starting to stand up against this force of evil.
Wish I could go to Brussels! Gonna be cheering you proud Euro Islamophobes on from the States!
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 12:39 PM
Let's Roll, darcy.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 8, 2007 1:01 PM
Let's Roll, darcy.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 8, 2007 1:07 PM
Let's Roll, darcy.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 8, 2007 1:07 PM
Let's Roll, Plague (X 3) NOW!
Todd Beamer - as much of an American hero as Washington and Lincoln.
LET'S ROLL!!!!! NOW!!!!
Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2007 6:12 PM
Plague ol' buddy I see where you're coming from but you're dreaming. If Mecca were turned into a hole in the ground Muslims would come to worship at that hole in the ground.
Islam, despite its socio-political agenda, is like other organized religions in one respect. Its primary purpose is to make sure the clergy are spared unpleasantness like, say, honest work...or martyrdom for that matter.
Do you seriously believe the Ummah will just evaporate because Mecca does? Are all those Muslim clergymen going to say: "Rats! I guess I was wrong. Now I've got to shave and get a real job."?
I don't think so.
I understand the desire to land one decisive blow and get this war over. It is not going to happen.
This conflict is going to be long and bloody. Leveling Mecca may be a part of it, but only a part.
Until Tom Tancredo has been elected president and actually has the position of C in C, I wish he would remember "Loose lips sink ships."
Posted by: USBeast at August 8, 2007 6:40 PM
"When mecca is hit w/ a couple of nukes I'm going to throw a huge kegger, Naseem you are invited just so we can hear that fairytale about the elephants and the swallow, that would be a goof. Maybe we can invent a beer drinking game around it."
Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 8, 2007 8:35 AM
@americanmadestrat,
May I come too? Nothing like some cold beer.
If I can't make it to your place, I'll make sure to throw the mother of all keggers in whatever place I'm located, followed by a mithai (Indian dessert) buffet.
God bless the USA.
Posted by: karyakarta92 at August 9, 2007 12:03 AM
Hmmm...(thinking of beer drinking games of old)...
How about "DurkaBounce"?
at August 9, 2007 5:55 AM
WE ARE THE MANY, THEY ARE THE FEW!.
Western governments will not confront Islam for fear of the ‘Muslim Backlash’.
However,
concerned activists from different European nations are organising a rally outside the building of the European Parliament in Brussels on the afternoon of Tuesday 11th September from 1pm in protest against the spreading influence of Sharia Law across the continent.
Plans are being made for similar events in other European cities (and across the world) in the near future.
Your participation and support will ensure that western governments have more to fear from the anger of their own citizens.
For more information, visit: “sioe.wordpress.com”
at August 9, 2007 10:27 AM
USBeast - I'm not saying Islam will be completely destroyed, although it has that potential due to its rigid absolutism, but we won't be that lucky, I agree. I do think that Mecca's destruction would have the effect on Islam that we saw when the Romans leveled the temple in Jerusalem. Judaism changed irrevocably. I think the same thing will happen to Islam, but the damage will be worse due to the way Islam's put together.
What would remain would not be as dangerous and many people would leave it. Many people want to leave it now. Many people know its bullshit but groupthink and threats of violence keep them from expressing that. A hole in the ground will free these people up. Of course a core group of believers would never change... 200 million perhaps more... but a large percentage would leave and some others would splinter off into some kind of non-violent thing called 'Islam' in name but not resembling what we have today except in the banalities, cliches and external rituals. Islam would be forced to de-militarize and grow some ovaries.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 9, 2007 10:34 AM
Tom Tancredo is an American hero.
He is willing to stand up to the Jihadists.
Islamic terrorists fear a Tancredo administration.
Posted by: raiders3 at August 9, 2007 12:55 PM
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