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As far as one can tell from this article, there is not that much useful information in this report, except for a restatement of possible outward signs of radicalization among Muslims living in the West. But the article then takes a contradictory turn as the report shifts its focus to how easy it is for jihadists to blend in when they choose to do so (as the al-Qaeda playbook suggests).
This, along with the assumption that the Internet is the source of "radicalizing" material, implies a limited set of tools for understanding the jihad ideology, for outward appearance and Internet habits are only the tip of an iceberg they still dare not examine for connections to Islamic texts and teachings older than the Internet or al-Qaeda.
"NYPD warns of homegrown terror threat," by Tom Hays for the Associated Press:
NEW YORK - They preferred bookstores or hookah bars to mosques. They stopped listening to pop music and instead surfed Web sites promoting radical Islam. They threw away their baseball caps and grew beards.
There are many reasons they may seem to eschew mosque attendance. For one, they may congregate privately.
New York Police Department intelligence analysts have concluded those were some of the telltale signs of homegrown terrorists in the making -- a mounting threat as grave as that from established terrorist groups like al-Qaida.
An NYPD report released Wednesday warns of a "radicalization" process in which young men -- otherwise unremarkable legal immigrants from the Middle East -- grow disillusioned with life in America and adopt a philosophy that puts them on the path to jihad.
"Hopefully, the better we're informed about this process, the more likely we'll be to detect and disrupt it," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said while presenting the findings at a briefing of private security executives at police headquarters.
The findings drew swift criticism from Arab-American civil rights groups, which accused the NYPD of stereotyping and of contradicting recent federal warnings that the chief terrorism threat remains foreign.
In a statement, Department of Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said federal authorities "appreciate efforts to better understand the phenomenon of radicalization."
"We are fortunate that radicalization seems to have less appeal in the U.S. than in other parts of the world," he said, "but we do not believe that America is immune to homegrown terrorism."
The FBI declined to comment.
Police officials said the study is based on an analysis of a series of domestic plots thwarted since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, including those in Lackawanna; Portland, Ore.; and Virginia. It was prepared by senior analysts with the NYPD Intelligence Division who traveled to Hamburg, Germany; Madrid; and other overseas spots to confer with authorities about similar cases.
The report found that homegrown terrorists often were indoctrinated in local "radicalization incubators" that are "rife with extremist rhetoric."
Instead of mosques, those places were more likely to be "cafes, cab driver hangouts, flop houses, prisons, student associations, non-governmental organizations, hookah bars, butcher shops and bookstores," the report says.
The Internet also provides "the wandering mind of the conflicted young Muslim or potential convert with direct access to unfiltered radical and extremist ideology."
The report warns that potential terrorists are difficult for law enforcers to detect because they blend in well with society. It also argues that more intelligence gathering is needed to thwart potential terror plots at their earliest stages.
Potential homegrown terrorists "are not on the law enforcement radar," the study says. "Most have never been arrested or involved in any kind of legal trouble."
They "look, act, talk and walk like everyone around them," the study adds. "In the early stages of their radicalization, these individuals rarely travel, are not participating in any kind of militant activity, yet they are slowly building the mind-set, intention and commitment to conduct jihad."
The Council on American-Islamic Relations accused the NYPD analysts of distorting the innocent behavior of observant Muslims.
"Is Islamic attire or giving up bad habits ... now to be regarded as suspicious behavior?" asked the group's chairman, Parvez Ahmed.
Here, Ahmed and CAIR unwittingly offer a stronger affirmation of the fact that jihadists are devout Muslims than anything mentioned above about baseball caps, beards, and music.
Posted by Marisol at August 16, 2007 7:32 AM
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This story is despicable how it is reported. There is nothing "home grown" in the U.S. about islam. Islam is totally foreign to the shores of the U.S. There is no history of marauding Arab bandits or cut throats in the U.S. who adopt a code for their mutual benefit of criminal rape and criminal looting. There is no native religion in any of the Americas that has anything to do with Mecca or Medina or the Kaaba. Apparently, Mohamed was never known remotely or otherwise by the civilizations of the America. Moslems did not discover or settle America. Moslems played no part in the history of the colonies or the growth of america. Moslems played no role in the bill of rights, the abolition of slavery and the extention of rights to all persons including women.
What is disingenuously reported here is that American Moslems and other American psychopaths are choosing Jihad over American culture as if there is something implicit in American culture that fosters the growth of islam. The American press must articulate a truth which it hides. Of all people who have blended into the U.S., American moslems like moslems everywhere especially today in Europe are retaining their way of life regardless of how offensive or different it is to the Western way of life.
This should be no shock to the press which after all loves to force every story into the ridiculous rubric that all cultures are of equal dignity and morality. As if someone who says their god allows them to cut off your head while you scream for your life is of equal morality with you!
What is offensive in the use of the term "home grown" is an obvious attempt of these press reporters to separate the violence implicit in islam which is totally foreign to anything American from the act of "American" islamic followers who are second generation assimilated and unassimilated Americans and as such represent a fifth column of subversive murderers. Add to this danger other psychopathic mostly criminally convicted Americans in American prisons turning to islam and the U.S. needs to worry not about home grown islam, but the grafting of islam into an overly tolerant U.S. society.
Posted by: David England![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at August 16, 2007 8:28 AM
...Jihadists tend to be Muslim....it does have the ring of truth to the phrase....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 16, 2007 8:32 AM
"An NYPD report released Wednesday warns of a "radicalization" process in which young men -- otherwise unremarkable legal immigrants from the Middle East -- grow disillusioned with life in America and adopt a philosophy that puts them on the path to jihad"
.....they have the option of just returning to Pakistan, Somalia, Jordan, Iran, Egypt,or the Muslim country of his choice...but since he probably did not enter this country with dreams on intergrating into American society as a peaceful and prosperous individual...he will not leave...his Jihad must continue....
ban muslim immigration now...
at August 16, 2007 8:51 AM
"We are fortunate that radicalization seems to have less appeal in the U.S. than in other parts of the world," he said, "but we do not believe that America is immune to homegrown terrorism."
-- from the article above
This statement, variants of which are made so often with such self-assurance, needs to be examined. We are often told that "Muslims in America are different" or "the situation in America is different from that in Western Europe." [At least this concedes that there is a "problem" with Muslims in Western Europe]. Why? Oh, because Muslims in America are so very "different" because they are so well-off, so many engineers, so many computer programmers, that sort of thing. In other words, something about the American Dream, defined entirely in terms of economic wellbeing, but having nothing to do with the legal and political institutions of the United States that help to explain not only that economic wellbeing, but all the other things, far more important than mere bank accounts, that make America America.
Implicit in this view -- "radicalization has less appeal in America "" -- is the by-now thoroughly discredited notion, which keeps coming in by the rhetorical back door, that "poverty" causes what is demurely called "radicalization." But that is not so. "Miike" Hawash was an Intel engineer, with an American wife, and Little-League playing children, and a salary of $360,000 a year, yet he was prpeared, having redisovered and deepened his faith in Islam, to go off -- after 9/11 -- to Afghanistan to kill Americans.
The word "radicalization" does not tell us anything, but attempts rather to hide the truth from us. What is "radicalization"? It is the state in which an individual Muslim, or a group of Muslims, decide to be very good Muslims indeed, and to do all that is demanded of Muslims, including the duty of participating in Jihad to remove all obstacles, everywhere, to the final triumph of Islam. Some Muslims choose not to participate directly. Some choose to avert their minds from that duty, to pretend that it does not exist. Some out of filial piety, and the apparent need to have an "identity," to continue to call themselves "cultural Muslims," meaning that they are no longer believers at all, but don't really want to make that leap into the dangerous unknown, the leap made by Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and no doubt tens or hundreds of thousands of others around the world, who do so not quite so openly and noisily, out of fear.
But those who are "radicalized" -- and these are a great many -- have not embraced a doctrine that has nothing to do with, but rather has every thing to do with, Islam. The texts they read are the same. But they read the full texts. They know the duty of Muslims. They choose, however, as their instrument of Jihad not only such things as campaigns of Da'wa, and the careful Tu-Quoque-and-Taqiyya efforts designed to prevent Infidels from finding out just a little too much about Islam, mainly by keepomg those tiny Infidel minds busy with "the three abrahamic faiths" and "we revere Jesus and Moses" and of course the five canonical prayers, and the giving of zakat -- for fellow Muslims -- and the observance of Ramadan and the inspirational delights of the hajj, but also violence. And that is what "radicalization" means --not some different, wierd, unrelated set of beliefs, but merely the set of beliefs that arise naturally out of, indeed are inculcated by, Islamic texts read and understood as Muslims have read and understood those immutable texts for 1300 --or possibly 1200 -- years (for it is unclear when the Qur'anic text was fixed in amber).
But the texts are the same, the same ones read by Muslims in France as in the United States, and the same texts as are read by Muslims in Iran, or the Sudan, or Libya, or Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan. The refusal of American authorities, or writers on the subject of Islam in America, to recognize that there is no great difference, that the only differenc that for now inhibits Muslim demands and behavior is the fact that Muslims constitute 1% of the total population, that that population is far less likely, for a number of resaons, to appease or acquiesce as so many in Western Europe have done, and that they cannot act quite as openly, quite as aggressively (though many Muslim groups are doing, in fact, their blatant damnedest) as they do in Western Europe.
"Radicalization" simply means an intensification of Islamic faith, and a willingness to participate oneself directly in Jihad, rather than simply support the effort as part of a community obligation, and finally, the willingness to use violence ("terrorism") as an instrument of Jihad. And that is all.
Posted by: Hugh at August 16, 2007 8:58 AM
Again, why do we need to entertain islam?
With 1,400 years of violent jihad, millions upon millions of slaughtered individuals, and culture after culture wrecked, why do we even have to discuss this sort of nonsense?
Islam depends on our own self-examination to deflect us from the death that awaits. Centuries of history sitting right there and still we beat ourselves up for their amusement. It's insane.
Islam is the problem. Has been for centuries. The solution is equally simple. Remove the vector through which islam is spread.
at August 16, 2007 9:11 AM
Homegrown suggests America is their home. Islam is their home.
Posted by: Elric66 at August 16, 2007 9:13 AM
"Homegrown" in America or not, wherever there is Islam there is death, destruction, persecution of non Muslims, and very sensitive feelings.
Posted by: HOV Dummy at August 16, 2007 9:24 AM
DOWN WITH ISLAM? As Dutch PM Wilders points out, "the Koran is a fascist book". Will this posting, asking if the question 'down with islam?' can be asked, be allowed to stand without opposition?
There was a time when the Japanese were enemies of this country. A few generations later, a Japanese person is now married into my family. A similar evolution may happen with our current enemies (Islamo fascists). I predict this will not happen in my lifetime, if ever.
So, knowing what side I'm on (the side of wanting to live), I will take the risk of being labled 'anti-Islam' and avoid the company of people who fit the Islamic demographic. It is my right to be careful. These people are notorious liars and connivers. They consistantly prove they cannot be trusted and vociferously threaten our very paradigm with escalating fervor.
IT IS BETTER TO DIE ON YOUR FEET THAN TO LIVE ON YOUR KNEES!!! Our collective pusillanimity will be our demise. The men of America must take the skirts off and put the pants back on. The women of America must stop putting skirts on their men.
at August 16, 2007 9:55 AM
Homegrown, here on VISAs',here Illegally, they are here. Some are outwardly arrogant about their determinations to make America into a Islamic country replete with all aspects of sharia law. We have seen the ISLAMIC THINKERS on the streets of Jackson Heights in Queens New York openly calling for America to become an Islamic state,they are out there with their bull horns,their literature, setting up tables and erecting signs with messages reading “Your terrorists are our heroes” and “Allah will destroy nations that allow homosexuality.” Do we remember the lesbian woman who tried to confront them and the NYPD arrested her for disorderly conduct. Others have said the local politicians are afraid to confront them and even the police appear afraid to confront the open threats that these people make on the streets of New York.
. When worldwide protests erupted over the publication of the cartoons in Denmark depicting the prophet Muhammad, the ISLAMIC THINKERS, who have ties to the radical Muslim group Al-Muhajiroun, were among the more than 1,000 Muslims protesting in Manhattan near the Danish consulate last year. They carried signs portraying George W. Bush and Danish Editor Flemming Rose with targets on their foreheads.
Our legal system allows us to see the smoke but we are not allowed to act on such threats until we see the fire, unfortunatley it may be to late by then. Verbal and other kinds of threats against our nation must be taken much more seriously. There needs to be more latitude in the requirements of warrants in search, and seizure guidelines when it comes to these kind of threats.
Free speech does not allow you to make threats against a country,it should not be protected speech to that extreme. Most states have laws that say if you make any threats aginst a person or person electronically IE, E mail,answering machine,Etc. you can be charged with threats of terrorism , a felony.
at August 16, 2007 9:55 AM
Marisol wrote:
"Here, Ahmed and CAIR unwittingly offer a stronger affirmation of the fact that jihadists are devout Muslims than anything mentioned above about baseball caps, beards, and music."
Excellent read Marisol. Spot on.
And then the obligatory, and quite valueless:
"The findings drew swift criticism from Arab-American civil rights groups, which accused the NYPD of stereotyping and of contradicting recent federal warnings that the chief terrorism threat remains foreign."
--from the article--
Indeed. Criticism because the Islamists are keeping closer tabs on the individuals themselves? Hogwash. I also like the line that since terrorism abroad is a greater threat, that we should ignore the lesser homegrown one. Laughable.
I guess I will just never grow accustomed to Islamic logic.
at August 16, 2007 10:05 AM
There was a time when the Japanese were enemies of this country. A few generations later, a Japanese person is now married into my family. A similar evolution may happen with our current enemies (Islamo fascists).
The difference between the enemy Japanese and the muslims is that the Japanese were driven by shintoism and after WWII, Japanese society was no longer driven by shitoism. Until we get the muslims to quit being driven by islam as a political ideology, the problems will continue.
We have seen the ISLAMIC THINKERS on the streets of Jackson Heights in Queens New York openly calling for America to become an Islamic state,they are out there with their bull horns,their literature, setting up tables and erecting signs with messages reading “Your terrorists are our heroes” and “Allah will destroy nations that allow homosexuality.”
What happend to the sedition laws in this country? Did they get repealed at some point?
Posted by: walterc at August 16, 2007 10:13 AM
This is what happens when you bring in a violent and intolerant cult determined to overthrow your secular state.
No one in the government, media, or academe bothered to examine the totalitarian belief system (Islam) of the Muslims -who the 1965 Immigration Reform blithely allowed to start quietly flooding into America.
The active deception by Islamic proseltyzers and apologists about their faith's true nature, abetted by the willing self-deception of the gullible infidels (who accepted the ruse that Islam was an "equal Abrahamic religion") may be fatal to the nation if Muslim immigration is permitted to continue unscrutinized and unchallenged.
Islam is anti-Constitutional, being a self-declared theocratic tyranny.
Why this obvious slo-mo Jihad continues to get a pass by the media, by religious scholars, by politicians and by journalists, demonstrates the cowardice and brainlessness of the infidels.
The Muslims know what they want. Domination of the world by Islam.
What do the infidels want?
Posted by: profitsbeard at August 16, 2007 10:13 AM
"the Japanese were driven by shintoism..."
-- from a posting above
Perhaps more accurately to be identified as a combination of divine-emperor-worship, and aggressive hypernationalism, and even racism (the people of Nippon being the very best people in the world, as compared for example to the Chinese, the Koreans, the Malays, and of course the Dutch, the English, and the Americans) -- all subsumed under =the word "Kodo."
Posted by: Hugh at August 16, 2007 10:41 AM
walterc:
Well America has never declared war on Islamic fascism, but I wonder if THE SMITH ACT under sedition guidlines is still actively on the books?
Yates v. U.S. (1957). In 1939 with World War II looming, Congress passed the Smith Act, which made it a crime to advocate overthrowing the government by violence. In the 1950s, 14 leaders of the American Communist Party were convicted under the Smith Act.
Could we see advocating Islamic radical groups in America falling under the SMITH ACT if we ever delare war?
at August 16, 2007 10:45 AM
Islam is like kudzu. It is not native to North America, but it can take over a lot and eventually kill every plant, even trees, that it covers.
Posted by: Pelayo at August 16, 2007 10:55 AM
David England:...Islam has nothing to do with America...
It's not a coincidence that this continent was discovered in trying to avoid muslims.
Traders fell to highway robbers (muslims) on the silk road and Columbus found a new route to India, or something much greater, America, in the process.
I often wonder why muslims immigrate to the Great Satan. Oh come on. I know why.
Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 16, 2007 10:56 AM
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 08/16/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
at August 16, 2007 11:01 AM
Homegrown.
Here's the next Adam Ghadan. Up and coming islam fanatic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOoWjGA1tHk&mode=user&search=
Posted by: Borg at August 16, 2007 11:06 AM
I agree with David England, there is nothing "home grown" about jihadists. They are embracing a very alien concept while enjoying the comfort of a society they dream of destroying.
Potential homegrown terrorists "are not on the law enforcement radar," the study says. "Most have never been arrested or involved in any kind of legal trouble."
That is the whole problem, sewn up neatly in one statement....law enforcement pays no attention to the growing terrorist population until they blow something up or drive an SUV into a crowd.
at August 16, 2007 11:25 AM
Revised message to United States citizen jihad watchers:
I started posting this request at Jihad Watch only two days ago, and we’re already up to 16 volunteers.
I'm looking for at least two people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase a copy of Robert Spencer's Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't and mail it to one of the senators in your state. I'm organizing an effort to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message.
If we get more than two people per state, we’ll also send copies to the House of Representatives.
If you’d like to be involved, please write to me at traehnam@yahoo.com under the subject heading “Senate,” and tell me the state your senator represents, an email address where I can reach you, and a nickname. No need for your real name. And I will never share your email address with anyone, not even with other volunteers for this project.
Over at www.jihadawareness.blogspot.com you can leave comments other volunteers will read, and you can see the growing list of participants in this project, and the states their senators represent. I’ll try to update the list at least once a day.
Once we have at least two people from every state, we can agree on a mailing date and then each of us can mail a copy of the book on that date.
Right before we do the mailing, we can issue a press release to various media outlets in every state, and in that way announce and explain the mailing. And perhaps we can come up with some other ways of maximizing the effectiveness of this project and gaining as much positive attention as possible.
at August 16, 2007 11:28 AM
What is a 'hookah bar'? The only hookah's that I know of are an underwater breathing device for divers, and a water pipe to smoke pot and hashish out of.
And then there is this gem:...It was prepared by senior analysts with the NYPD Intelligence Division who traveled to Hamburg, Germany; Madrid; and other overseas spots to confer with authorities about similar cases.
Nice vacation at taxpayers expense. All they really had to do was read this site, or confer with RS or Hugh, and they could save all that travel money.
Potential homegrown terrorists "are not on the law enforcement radar," the study says. "Most have never been arrested or involved in any kind of legal trouble."
They needed a trip to Europe, to discover that, amazing...
Posted by: duh_swami at August 16, 2007 11:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOoWjGA1tHk&mode=user&search=
Not saying it absolutely is this guy, but his voice is very familiar...like on a phone at 4:43am?
Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 16, 2007 11:40 AM
From an article here:
http://www.saneworks.us/The-fuller-exposition-of-Why-Islam-vs-Islamists-article-463-1.htm
____
Now, read existing US law as codified in Title 18 (the federal criminal code), Section 2385:
§ 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
This of course is the Smith Act of 1940, as amended. The Supreme Court has had two occasions to review cases prosecuted under the Smith Act. In the first case, Dennis v. US, 341 U.S.494 (1951), the Court heard appeals from Communist Party leaders who had been convicted of violating the Smith Act and whose conviction had been affirmed by the Court of Appeals. The Supreme Court examined the First Amendment and other constitutional challenges, was unpersuaded, upheld the statute as constitutional, and affirmed the convictions.
The second time the Court took a look at the Smith Act was six years later in the case of Yates v. US, 354 U.S. 298 (1957). By this time, however, the Court was now under the spell of Chief Justice Earl Warren and the other liberal Justices of the time. They had already tested their mettle in Brown v. Board of Education some three years earlier. The question might have been reasonably asked, would the Court sustain the legislation in the face of a First Amendment challenge and effectively overrule Dennis?
The Court delivered its answer by not even addressing the First Amendment issue. What the Court did do was to limit the Smith Act to cases where the advocacy for the overthrow of the government was more than merely theoretical and to require a real nexus between the advocacy and some action that was being urged to achieve the treasonous goal.
Now, if we were to take into consideration that the Jihadists who cite Shari’a do so to advocate the violent overthrow of the US government, one might well argue that this alone satisfies the condition under the Smith Act for a criminal conviction even under the Yates holding. The argument is fairly straightforward.
The Jihadist, following Shari’a, teaches that the purpose of Islam is the submission of the world to Allah’s will as expressed in his perfect law, the Shari’a. Further, anyone who teaches that the Muslim must be faithful and adhere to the traditional and authoritative Shari’a is advocating in effect precisely the same thing. Jihad, which most certainly includes the use and the advocacy of the use of violence in the effort to overthrow the infidel government, is an obligation on the Muslim, either as part of the collective or as an individual. By virtue of the fact that this is a religious instruction and understood to be a call to action – to live by the Shari’a fully and faithfully – and not merely some theoretical theological or political discussion, the call to observe traditional and authoritative Shari’a is the call to arms in a clear and decisive way. It would be hard to understand how this would not be a prima facie violation of the Smith Act.
______
I just found this article this morning. I am going to research a bit more on the 2 cases cited and on the history of the Smith Act.
My initial reaction was of sheer amazement that how this act is still a valid federal statute and we hear nothing about its enforcement.
WHOEVER...TEACHES OR ADVOCATES OVERTHROWING THE GOVERNMENT BY FORCE OR VIOLENCE..
Any local Iman uttering words of encouragement in his kutbha towards the establishment of sharia and a caliphate should fall under this statute. The existance of a Koran within the Mosque ought to be sufficient probable cause to wiretap every single mosque in the country so those kutbhas could be monitored.
Those protesters in Jackson Hts. NY mentioned by another poster would also fall under this.
WHOEVER, WITH INTENT TO CAUSE OVERTHROW OF THE GOVERNMENT...PUBLISHES, PRINTS WRITTEN OR PRINTED MATTER ADVISING OR TEACHING THE DUTY...DESIRABILITY, OR PROPRIETY OR OVERTHROWING ....ANY GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES BY FORCE OR VIOLENCE,...OR WHO ATTEMPTS TO DO SO,..
Have not CAIR leaders stated that they would NOT want to give the impression they would NOT want sharia imposed? Didn't the founders of CAIR say they would want sharia to be the dominate law of the country or something to that effect?
OK, So when will the FBI arrest CAIR and take down their website? After or before the next Muslim Outreach Program and Sensitivity Training Seminar?
at August 16, 2007 12:21 PM
And the triple a dc gets into the act.
“The report is at odds with federal law enforcement findings, including those of the recently released National Intelligence Estimate, and uses unfortunate stereotyping of entire communities,” Shora said in a statement. “The use of such language by the NYPD is un-American and goes against everything for which we stand.”
Translation, you people are not following your dhimmi guvments recommendations. These newcomers have no concept of States rights or Individual rights. They are counting on the guvment as a partner in crime. Islam is at odds with America and Americans it is obvious to anyone who isn’t part of the status quo, there I said the that which shouldn’t be mentioned. I am sick of the fact that every time islamists and their motives are discussed these muslim rights orgs are out there smearing Christians, Jews, average American citizens, Cops, Food processors, John Doe’s etc.
They have no problem smearing or silencing anyone who they disagree with, yep that sounds like the American way all right. Danger will robinson danger! Islam is not compatible with America it goes against everything we fought for over the last 200 plus years. Hey guvment man, how does it feel to defecate on the graves of our heroes for freedom and individual rights? We look at the civil war era citizens and then we look now and wow what a complete and total collapse of the ideals that those of the past as well as many of us hold dear.
at August 16, 2007 12:55 PM
"Is Islamic attire or giving up bad habits ... now to be regarded as suspicious behavior?" asked the group's chairman, Parvez Ahmed.
Yes, islamic attire IS suspicious.. and it is offensive. It's like wearing a swastika armband in the streets.
And what "bad habits" is this ahmed talking about??
If he doesn't like OUR 'bad' HABITS he is FREE TO LEAVE. There are MANY islamist countries where he can go.
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out, ahmed.
Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 16, 2007 1:04 PM
But leaveIraqNow, citizens have been advocating anarchy and governmental abolishment for decades (Abbie Hoffmann, Black Panthers, Communist Party of America) and no constitutional or legal remedy ever applies to them. We've kept ignoring crackpots who had no chance and now we have a real problem.
Everyone has "rights" to demonstrate, demands outrageous things and our courts, with help from the ACLU and CAIR are wound up in a knot. These people have played us like a violin.
Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 16, 2007 1:45 PM
Ameriki1
Christian martyrdom is considered a passive event... no need to strap bombs to ones self and slaughter people to do it.
(Reply) (Spam)
ozzycda
The concept of Martyrdom is actually the same, but I do agree that for many Christians it was passive, but I wonder where the Knights Templer thought they were going when slain in battle....thanks for watching my videos, and peace
(Reply) (Spam)
Ameriki1
Ozzy you know the comparison with a Knights Templar is a complete red herring right, and a dishonest comparison. Lets try to keep on track here. Islam needs a non-Wahabi reformation to properly explain concepts like Dar-al Harb and the like. There are other genocidal passages as well that need altering.
(Reply) (Spam)
ozzycda
I am talking about the concept of Martyrdom period, since you mentioned it, if you wanted to talk about a Islamic reformation, please be upfront with it, I don't mean to sound like an A-hole, thank you for the comment, and I completely agree with you when it comes to a non-Whabbi Islam, peace
(Reply) (Spam)
Ameriki1
Maybe you are the man to do it, but not with red herrings. However I do like the idea of explaining away Islam’s genocidal tendencies ... by viewing the Koran as a document, which needs to be taken in "historical context". That is a start anyways.
(Reply) (Spam)
ozzycda
Thank you very much, and with regards to your above comment, yes there are many places where God sent messages to the Muslims for a situation, such as many parts of Sura 9, for instance the people of the book mentioned in that sura are the Byzantine Romans which were going to attack the Muslims, so those verses have nothing to do with today, also the Pagan verses as I mentioned above as well...peace and thanks for the support!
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This guy has just admitted that Islam isn't valid for all times and all places ... he sort of had to based upon some earlier things i posted concerning the genocidal nature of some of the passages in Islam. In order to win his arguement he needs claim the Koran is a historical document, which needs to be understood in historical context. Bravo. Making headway here I think. By the way I think this guys and his followers want a debate, because they claim robert has never had the courage to debate a "real" Muslim.
at August 16, 2007 2:19 PM
My conversation with youtube muslim guy taken from the link above.
Posted by: Ameriki at August 16, 2007 2:37 PM
Capitalist,
The fact that there has been no practical application of the law is not a defense for its lack of enforcement.
When is the last time you received a ticket for jaywalking? Spitting in public? or some such "crime" that is selectively enforced.
Prosecutors have a alot of descretion. When they can't gather enough evidence for a murder against someone they know actually committed the murder (e.g. a witness refuses to testify or absconds, or dies before trial), they look to other enforcement tools (Al Capone- tax evasion).
The Smith Act should be revived and put back into the law enforcement toolbox, even if its a back-up tool when other evidence gathering doesn't work.
Think of what Bush is doing now after his NEW and IMPROVED immigration reform failed. He is going back to EXISTING statutes and laws and using them as he should have long ago.
The Smith Act exists.
We don't need the Pelosi/Reid/Clintonista crowd's approval to enforce it. We just need an FBI and Attorney General Office with some intelligence and some courage...oh..and a little bit of creativity.
Posted by: Leave Iraq Now
at August 16, 2007 3:25 PM
David England,
Very good post! Every group, religious, ethnic, racial, that came to this country, came looking for the same things, freedom and opportunity. They were attracted by the ideals and principles articulated in the declaration of independence, and the constitution of the United States.
Muslims are the only group to come here that despises and rejects those founding principles, and, for the most part, are incapable of any real loyalty to any of them.
It's amazing to me that our leaders, with all the vast intellectual resources available to them, and in the face of all the evidence to the contrary, continue to pretend that Islam is not a threat to our country and civilization.
Posted by: rational
at August 16, 2007 3:45 PM
I think I may have stated this before.
If, in a society of different colored rabbits, the ones that were pink kept appearing in public places and detonating bombs to kill other rabbits...would I be wrong as a rabbit to fear the pink ones?
Jeez...gimme a break!
at August 16, 2007 5:36 PM
How many mosques are there in New Jersey?
Someone posted recently that there are 800!
800 cauldrons of hate, enmity and subversion in the tiny state of New Jersey alone!
We have our work cut out for us and still our "leaders" are allowing more Mohamedans into America!
Nuts.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at August 16, 2007 6:28 PM
NJ is also known as a "sanctuary state", though for different reasons, the terrorists are obviously exploiting this fact as well.
Posted by: jcom972 at August 17, 2007 12:54 AM
ynkedoodl2 - 800 mosques in New Jersey, eh? How many churches in the same approximate area? So: what's needed is 800 Christian congregations engaged in an 'adopt a mosque' program. NOT, however, the usual wishywashy 'interfaith' stuff. I'm thinking more along the lines of "watch and pray", and the uncomfortable bit in the gospels where Jesus coolly tells his disciples he's giving them authority to 'cast out demons'.
It would be - interesting - to find out what would happen if every one of those 800 mosques discovered that the churches next door were praying for them - as well as intelligently observing their every move. If, at every da'wa event the same sweet, gentle, gracious but unfoolable people wearing crosses and carrying Bibles turned up and insisted on asking awkward questions about the Apostasy and Blasphemy Laws, and contradicting the lies on the beautiful 'Discovering Islam' poster displays. As Jane Austen's 'Lady Susan' (herself a consummate mistress of taqiyya) said, "Facts are such horrid things!"
How are things going at your own home church - the one you picked because it was handy to a mosque?
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 17, 2007 4:04 AM
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