Funny how the article mentions slavery. Like if their false prophet didnt own and take slaves.

Posted by: Elric66 at August 18, 2007 9:22 AM

I don't have her name off hand but there is a woman that has her hand in America's textbooks with her influence. California uses her curriculum in *some* of their public schools to teach islam to the kids. It wouldn't surprise me if these edits will be made to the public school text books.

It's too bad that schools no longer can stick to reading writing and arithmetic.

Posted by: Highrise at August 18, 2007 9:29 AM

It's a land grab.

Catmeat mufti has said the same about Australia.("mosque ruins" in the Outback).

This way they can say these lands were once dar al islam and take them back.

Posted by: Gramfan at August 18, 2007 9:31 AM

In furtherance of this sort of thing, there is apparently an associate professor at Barnard writing a false "history" of the temple Mount "showing" that there is no Jewish connection to that area therefore it is Mulsim land etc etc etc.

It's all about the stories these days.

Posted by: carpediadem at August 18, 2007 9:40 AM

That's right. Abraham was a Muslim prophet too. And here is another BS peddler:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ajmal_masroor/2007/08/fuelling_fury.html

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 18, 2007 9:40 AM

Oops, Temple Mount, Muslim...sp.

Posted by: carpediadem at August 18, 2007 9:41 AM

They also were on the moon before everybody else. That's why we call them Lunatics.

Posted by: FreeSpeech at August 18, 2007 9:42 AM

People - In the "contact" option at this UK "Muslim Weekly," there's a "Complaints." Send your complaint about this pos article to the Editor, which I just did. It's very easy, I hope a few JW's will take the time to do this.
And because of the brazen "taqiyaa" I wouldn't mince words.

Posted by: darcy at August 18, 2007 9:44 AM

The Stone Age Siberians, who became the "Native Americans", were ahead of them by 20,000 years or so.

Columbus did not "discover" (South, not North)America. He only found an already- inhabited hemisphere.

But, it is ultimately what you do with the land that matters.

The post-Columbus development of North America, that finally brought us the Constitution and Bill of Rights, is not only the highest achievement of human liberty, but it also freed the Native Americans from their pre-scientific slavery to superstition, endless internecine warfare, helplessness in the face of disease, and eventually gave the survivors their own nations back.

It was a cruel and bloody birth (the attempted genocide of the Indians and Slavery, as well as failure to give women the vote until the 20th century), but we overcame these earlier human-all-too-human follies and now enjoy our founding documents' unsurpassed liberations, one and all.

Islam would reverse this unique accomplishment and return us to ignorance, slavery, cruelty, superstition and brutality.

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 18, 2007 9:53 AM

Highrise:
Susan L. Douglass

Dhimmi Watch: Look who's teaching Johnny about Islam

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001814.php

Posted by: justamomof4 at August 18, 2007 9:56 AM

(When this article was written in 1998, Hisham Zoubeir was at the University of Sheffield undertaking a multi-disciplinary degree in law. He has lived in Abu Dhabi, Cairo and London. His main interests delves into peace, equality, righteousness and spirituality.)

a multi-disciplinary degree in law, eh? Learning to speak with a forked tongue, methinks.

I wonder who was paying for this cretin's "edumacation".

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 18, 2007 9:56 AM

So the Muslims think America belongs to them. Fine. I'd like to see them try to come get it.

Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 18, 2007 10:03 AM

...an exercise in chauvinistic overreaching until one realizes that to some Muslims who take his claims seriously, America is now Muslim land -- and Islamic law stipulates that Muslims possess by right any land that once formed part of the House of Islam; this is a key element of the claims to Israel and Spain put forward by Hamas, Al-Qaeda, and others. Chauvinistic overreaching, yes, but quite possibly with a political agenda.

Sadly, I no longer believe that any of the ruling elites will make refutation of these claims.

I expect that they will coddle, accomodate, and appease these vermin as always at the expense of what is right and true.

In this expectation, is the only common ground that I share with the islamic enemy.

Posted by: witness at August 18, 2007 10:03 AM

Also, I have to disagree with the idea of the Native Americans being "freed" in the post-Columbus era. Their lands were taken from them. Countless were slaughtered. I see nothing liberating in that.

Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 18, 2007 10:05 AM

There is some evidence of Roman and Chinese wanderers reaching America. Do they claim us too?

Posted by: IAmFree at August 18, 2007 10:08 AM

Actually, primitive single-celled organisms were here long before anyone else. So the land belongs to them.

Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 18, 2007 10:11 AM

One wonders if the Muslims EVER have to prove anything they claim.

And one also wonders why we in the west so willingly put up with their bullshit.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at August 18, 2007 10:16 AM

Adam, the golem that Yahweh fashioned out of clay and had life breathed into him, may have been a muslim.

Therefore all people on Earth are muslim progeny.

It works pretty well to claim everyhing. If it doesn't just make stuff up - there are enough willfully ignorant people everywhere that will agree with you simply to avoid anything unpleasant.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 18, 2007 10:17 AM

shiek - I read the outrageous Guardian UK article written by a Mohammedan (the link you posted).

There are over 280 comments posted. Fortunately, most of them are NOT Dhimmi comments. Way down near the end of the comments one "MuhammedMustapha" makes a reference to "Robert Spencer and his paranoid Jihad Watch."

Paranoid? Nope, I don't think so. How 'bout we substitute the word "realistic" for "paranoid," MuhammedMustapha?

Posted by: darcy at August 18, 2007 10:17 AM

One wonders if the Muslims EVER have to prove anything they claim.
Isabella the Crusader

Power is proof. Political power is proof. firepower is proof. What other proof do they need?

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at August 18, 2007 10:20 AM

That's right. Abraham was a Muslim prophet too. And here is another BS peddler:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ajmal_masroor/2007/08/fuelling_fury.html
Posted by: sheik yer'mami

I just read that one... interesting how they want to make the rules in the West to benefit themselves. And they insist on treating anyone who is of another faith or race as less than second-class.

Just one more example of how they just don't get it.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 18, 2007 10:21 AM

Dear Plague_on_Both_HOuses--

You are getting close. Remember when Saddam Hussein published that internet diatribe about the garden of Eden being physically located in Iraq? Claiming that Adam and Eve were the "first Iraqis?

This sort of high-minded arrogance is the muslim attempt to be sophisticated. Revising the Bible, revising history, and making God in their image...all are marks of a colossal scheme.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 18, 2007 10:26 AM

A good refutation of these claims here:

http://defsi.typepad.com/deafening_silence/2007/07/index.html

A sample:

"Saga America proves nothing. Like Mr. Yucel, Fell had no training in history, archaeology or anthropology. His methodology and claims have been consistently rejected by serious scholars and none of his writings have ever been adopted by any reputable archaeology or anthropology program.

Fell's best-known books are America B.C., Saga America and Bronze Age America. Writing in the New York Review of Books in 1977, Glyn Daniel, Professor of Archaeology at the University of Cambridge, England, described Fell's theories as "ignorant rubbish" and "badly argued theories based on fantasies." In his book Prehistory of the Americas, Stuart Fiedel, former professor of Anthropology at the State University of New York at Purchase called Fell's theories "fantasies" that are "not taken seriously" by contemporary archaeologists."

Posted by: Leave Iraq Now at August 18, 2007 10:27 AM

If you've traveled in, say Egypt you'll find EVERYONE believes the most delusional claptrap. "Jews invented tne AIDS virus" or this tidbit from an 'educated' college' student and he learned it from his professor: Shakespeare was a secret Muslim hence his name Shaikh-Pir which means Leader-Master (get it?) so its got to be true. Pitiful.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at August 18, 2007 10:29 AM

Victims, nothing but victims, wherever you look, sez Ajmal Masroor

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/08/18/uk-identifying-muslim-terrorists-as-muslims-will-lead-to-violence-and-death/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 18, 2007 10:29 AM

"The German art historian, Alexander Von Wuthenau, also provides evidence that Muslims were in America, in the time between 300 and 900 C.E. This was at least half a millennium before Columbus was born. Carved heads that were described as "Moorish-looking" were dated between 300 and 900 C.E...."

How could Muslims arrive before Muhammad existed? Only a demented denizen of this patriarchal, supremacist rationalization system could play so loose with facts. But the "big lie" as well as a "barge of slander and lies" (as Hitler noted) are methods to counter any skeptical questions asked in the matter of truth-facts.

The future is better seen than the past. In the final analysis, what is very likely to happen in the future is that Israel will be attacked by demented Muslim fanatics such as Hissham Zoubeir and it will be necessary for the victim of Muslim aggression to turn Mecca and Medina into a nuclear wasteland. That coming event is much more likely than any Muslim being in the Americas in 300 AD. I'll bet my prophecy will come true and it will be brought about by supremacist frauds such as Hissham Zoubeir (who is probably a demented Jew-hater too).

Posted by: Frank at August 18, 2007 10:34 AM

I thought Custer was defeated by Sitting Bull, or was it Sitting Abdul?
If the Amerindians were Muslim then they would have invaded Europe and not the other way around.

Posted by: jewdog at August 18, 2007 10:34 AM

Hey.. I hear they even landed a man on the moon.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 18, 2007 10:35 AM

Since Islam is founded upon lies to begin with, please tell me why I should care what that Islamic yahoo has to say?

I'm half Italian. Let the Islamic world lay claim to the United States and let's see what happens. I suggest a landing spot in New York City harbor for the Sultan's new flotilla.

The world war is coming anyway. I hope that this kind of overreaching on the part of certain Islamist "scholars" just opens more eyes here in the United States, because what Robert states is quite true: if the Muslims believe that the United States was once Muslim land, then they will never rest until it is taken back. And this is also why Israel will never be safe and no treaty can be trusted when made with Muslims in that regard.

It doesn't matter that both claims are lies and mythology on the part of Muslims. What matters is that they are apt to believe such lies.

OT: I figure this might be of interest to many of the old time commenters here at JW, and perhaps more than a few new ones:

First Interview of Foehammer

I have already accepted another invitation and am considering a third.

So, yes, let the games begin, Islamists. I fully intend on becoming a bigger and and louder barrier standing in the way of the Islamization of the USA, and all the would-be censors in the world aren't going to be able to shut me up.

Posted by: Foehammer at August 18, 2007 10:38 AM

This is outrageous but familiar. A Muslim professor in a nearby university had an interview published in which he stated that Columbus saw minarets and mosques as he sailed by Cuba. He also stated that Abraham Lincoln's mother was a descendant of Arab Muslim sailors...so... of course, Abraham Lincoln was really a Muslim whose real first name was "Ibrahim" changed later to the spelling that we know. Dr. Zoubeir's article is also outrageous on many points. He is correct to make reference to African people being brought to the Americas for slavery. Where he fails, purposely, is to mention the centuries old slave trade, which continues to this day, that the Arabs have done to the black Africans. As another writer mentioned, the Muslims are also rewriting the history of Jerusalem to suit their purposes. I guess the big question is: Will Western academics stand for these lies or will they go along with them as just another cultural viewpoint? I fear the answer.

Posted by: maryrose at August 18, 2007 10:39 AM

Nah, this isn't a hoax. The moon landing--now, THAT was a hoax!

Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 18, 2007 10:44 AM

PLEASE read the comment section on the female circumcision article on Dhimmi Watch!

Posted by: CGW at August 18, 2007 10:50 AM

Mufti of Australia: this was Muslim land

Before shrimp on the barbee, Foster's Lager, and Crocodile Dundee, evidently there was the burqa, the book, and the Prophet. MEMRI is reporting that the Mufti of Australia and New Zealand, Taj Al-Din Hamed Abdallah Al-Hilali, is claiming that Australia was originally Muslim land, settled by Afghans. The Aborigines are their descendants:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/000920.php

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 18, 2007 10:50 AM

Well, that cinches it. According to sharia, once the Muslims have possessed land, it's theirs in perpetuity. Time for the rest of us to pack up and move out, or face death or subjugation.

Posted by: Rick at August 18, 2007 10:55 AM

It all makes sense to me now.
We'd noticed some ruins on our farm property. One of the areas we excavated was apparently a latrine long ago. We'd never been able to figure out why it was full of pebbles and white underwear. ;-)

Posted by: livefreeordie! at August 18, 2007 10:56 AM

Gee, I always thought the re-writing of history came AFTER the war was won! Sheer arrogance.

Posted by: mepeteart at August 18, 2007 11:34 AM

The reason why Columbus got lucky was because the Muslims blocked trade to the East so Columbus thought he would go the other way. This curse that the Muslims brought on European trade with the East gave Europe to America and since then God has produced many Christian saved lives ever since to out weigh the lost. Even if Muslims did find it what good did they do, very unlike Islam to not have made war with the Indians and taken the land. Did they wait for Columbus and the Europeans to build New York so they could wait for planes to be invented to crash into buildings and then say America is ours?

Remember do not hate Muslims in general but question the system it self as we all have a right to question what is in the cave.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at August 18, 2007 11:35 AM

If I wrote what I am thinking about this article I would be banned, because I would turn the air blue.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 18, 2007 11:38 AM

Remember do not hate Muslims in general but question the system it self as we all have a right to question what is in the cave.

Guano?

Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 18, 2007 11:41 AM

August 18, 2007

"Muslims were in America before Columbus!"

So were cockroaches, sharks, and crocodiles.

Posted by: Prickzilla at August 18, 2007 11:48 AM

This isn't a matter of "hate" when calling Muslims into question, people.

This is a matter of do we want to survive into the next century as American or not?

Hurry the Hell up. The train is leaving...

Posted by: Foehammer at August 18, 2007 11:51 AM

This is just a reprint of an article from 1998. http://www.themodernreligion.com/ht/before-columbus.html

Nothing in it, just the Islamic propaganda machine working. Obviously they didn't get enough press the previous time so they are just trying again.

*YAWN*

Posted by: payingattention at August 18, 2007 11:55 AM

This isn't a matter of "hate" when calling Muslims into question, people.

This is a matter of do we want to survive into the next century as American or not?

Hurry the Hell up. The train is leaving...

Posted by: Foehammer at August 18, 2007 11:51 AM

Actually, no; the train for which you had tickets this afternoon, left earlier this morning around midnight -- apparently in a very big hurry and without explanation.

The First Class section was full and there were no second or third class sections on the train.

Sorry, no ticket refunds my slack-jawed friends.

Posted by: witness at August 18, 2007 11:58 AM

Hurry the Hell up. The train is leaving...
Posted by: Foehammer

I'm on the train with Foehammer and all of like mind, I want to survive and raise my family in freedom...not slavery.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 18, 2007 12:05 PM

ALL CHRISTIAN and JEWISH Land is actually MUSLiM LAND..... Well, if you follow the reasoning that all TRUE Christians and TRUE Jews accept the"truth" of Islam and that Christians and Jews as many who claim are just infidels who believe a false doctrine. So they see all of Europe and the Americas as Muslim land inhabited by infidels who believe Jesus (isa) was the Crucified which Islam "corrects" and rejects. Any land that is considered Christian is in fact perceived land in need of Liberation by Islam.

Anyway, there is evidence to support very slight Islamic influence in America brought on through the Manila Galleon expeditions. The vestiges of the Moro culture however had little effect on the Religious beliefs of Native American Populations or in any other manner with the exception of dress which could be seen through the South from the Apache to the Seminole which is identical to dress in the Southern Philippine Archipelago of the time. The majority of those who escaped and settled in the US were Christian, in fact New Orleans area was settled in the 1500 by Philippine immigrants long before the French and was called "Little Manila" and survived as a fishing community well after N.O. was established. There are also tribal people in the Philippine Islands who claim to be Native Americans brought over as conscripts working the Galleons. To try to claim it predates Columbus is retarded. In fact they probably like most are completely oblivious to any real facts in this matter.
So let me take this all to it's logical conclusion, the Profit was eating at a Barbecue "Jim" Abu Bakr threw in his honor. (This is where he got his nickname because he was partial to Ham and kept demanding More Ham from his host.) Anyway' after an excellent get together and a little time preaching to and converting the Jinn to Islam. Mo developed a severe case of indigestion and of course gas which he prolifically passed to the delight of all present.
The important point is that those very molecules, as precious and Holy as they are now permeate the entire atmosphere of out Planet and have sealed the fact that all of the Globe has been sanctified by the Holy Profit. Now consider the small amounts of Earthly Atmosphere that has traversed the Galaxy facilitated by the Infidels and their satanicly diabolical "space program" thereby marking the Heavens with the tiny particles of the Profit's Divine molecular claim to the entirety of the Universe.

Thank You

Posted by: AllahSnackbar at August 18, 2007 12:06 PM

Friday, August 17, 2007
Clergy To Be Used During Martial Law
For over a year now, the U.S. goverment has been secretly training ministers to be part of a "Clergy Response Team" to "help quell public unrest if martial law is ever declared."

Shreveport's KSLA News 12 broke this story on Wednesday, and a once secret program is now openly publicized. The clergy are being advised to use Romans 13 to encourage parishioners to submit to the sudden and massive expansion of government control that takes place during martial law. The following news story is from KSLA News 12:

http://www.chalcedon.edu/blog/2007/08/clergy-to-be-used-during-martial-law.php

Thank you islam. Bye-bye train.

Posted by: witness at August 18, 2007 12:20 PM

More fairytales....and I suppose Islam was here before little green men roamed the earth too.

Stoned on Islam -- how tragic.

Posted by: champ at August 18, 2007 12:36 PM

Islam in America before Columbus
By Hisham Zoubeir

“Before the West declared themselves the great scientists of the earth, before their own Renaissance, Muslims already were making discoveries in science that took the West hundreds of years to even begin to imagine. What a shame that people in Europe were being persecuted by the Church for their suppositions that the earth was round; they should have come to the Islamic world—- an Afghan Muslim had proved that in 793 C.E.!”

Eratosthenes
From N.S. Gill,
Your Guide to Ancient / Classical History.

Who Is Eratosthenes:

“Eratosthenes is known for his mathematical calculations.
Eratosthenes was called "Beta" (the second letter of the Greek alphabet) because he was never first, but he is more famous than his "Alpha" teachers because his discoveries are still used today. Chief among these are the calculation of the circumference of the earth (note: the Greeks did know the earth was spherical) and the development of a mathematical sieve named after him. He made a calendar with leap years, a 675-star catalogue, and maps. He recognized the Nile's source was a lake, and that rains in the lake region caused the Nile to flood.
Occupation: Mathematician
Life and Career Facts:
Eratosthenes was born in 276 B.C. in Cyrene (Syrene) in present-day Libya.
Eratosthenes was the third librarian at the famous Alexandrian library. He studied under the Stoic philosopher Zeno, Ariston, Lysanias, and the poet-philosopher Callimachus.
Eratosthenes is reported to have starved himself to death at Alexandria in 194 B.C.”

Islam in America before Columbus
By Hisham Zoubeir

“The German art historian, Alexander Von Wuthenau, also provides evidence that Muslims were in America, in the time between 300 and 900 C.E. This was at least half a millennium before Columbus was born. Carved heads that were described as "Moorish-looking" were dated between 300 and 900 C.E.”

Encyclopaedia of the Orient

“Muhammad

Mecca 570 or 571 AD- Madina 632) The founder of Islam; the receiver and transmitter of what Muslims believe is God's message to humankind, as recorded in the Koran, the principal religious text for Muslims.”

Vikings in America
edited by
D. L. Ashliman
University of Pittsburgh

“According to Icelandic sagas written in the 12th and 13th centuries (but based on much earlier oral tradition), in about 985 Bjarni Herjolfsson, a Norse settler in Greenland, was blown off course and sighted a continent west of Greenland, but he did not go ashore. About 15 years later Leif Eriksson (son of Erik the Red) explored the new continent. For the next ten years a number of voyages were made from Greenland to the new land, which the Norsemen called "Vinland" because of the profusion of grapes that grew there.”

I could go on and on “Frisking” this fellow, but I think this explains nearly all we need to know about Hisham Zoubeir:

“When this article was written in 1998, Hisham Zoubeir was at the University of Sheffield undertaking a multi-disciplinary degree in law. He has lived in Abu Dhabi, Cairo and London. His main interests delves into peace, equality, righteousness and spirituality”

I don’t think you can get a more Orwellian Double speaking PCBS maker then this fellow.

Sorry for the lazy way of footnoting, but this guy just isn’t worth of a formal refutation.

Posted by: senor doeboy at August 18, 2007 12:40 PM

Oh please, the horsecrap flies again out of the muslim butt!!
Let me prove this is TOTAL fallacy and nothing more.
The muslims in their many attacks and invasions of Southern Europe, the Black Sea coast, and other regions of the Medit. area used BYZANTINE SHIPS, BYZANTINE SAILORS, and also certain city-states of Italy to make their crossings happen.
These included the Genoese and Venetians on occasion if the Turks could afford them.
Yes, the Byzantines and Italians charged HUGE sums of money to move the mohammedians, but how could a muslim force cross the expanse of the Atlantic OCEAN when they could not even cross the Bosporous regions?!?!?!?!?
Yes, it is so believable.

Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at August 18, 2007 1:19 PM

Well, the Divil ye say! What about St. Brendan? He made his seven-year voyage to the Americas long before Mohammed was born. Moslem claims are just a lot of Blarney and blather. America is part of Ireland, fair and square.

Posted by: Chatillon at August 18, 2007 1:24 PM

Muslims have discovered inter-stellar travel and are settling on Alpha Centauri even as we speak!

Pigs are flying in many Islamic countries as well!

You can buy the Brooklyn bridge in any major madrassa!

I'm too old to laugh and it hurts too much to cry.

Posted by: tanstaafl at August 18, 2007 1:26 PM

I rarely post nowadays in this site for lack of time, but occasionaly there is one or two subjects when I feel very tempted to add my my opinion and knowledge.

First of all, Mr Spencer added that he does not know whether there is any scholarly refutation regarding this matter. I had heard about this outrageous claim before (just like there are also claims about black africans finding America, or about the Chinese fleet of 1421 under Zheng He finding America by one English quack called Gavin Menzies). All of these are ridiculous and unsubstantiated.

I will therefore mention a few of the most common, and add my two cents:

- The Phoenician claim (circa 1500-1200 BC)
This claim actually has some ground to stand on. The Egyptians commissioned several explorations from Phoenician sailors (particularly under queen Hatshepsut), and there is evidence of cocaine traces found in Egyptian mummies. Cocaine is indigenous to South/Central America. I have also heard of ancient vessels found near the Azores, or the Canary islands (I don't remember), but I don't know if their origins are known. In fact, these wrecks may well belong to much older ships for all I know. I find this claim hard to believe for the simple reason that classical ships were built to sail on calm waters (a bireme or a trireme would most likely sink in the Atlantic). Nevertheless, Mesoamerican myths (like the one of the god Quetzalcoatl, who looked essentially "white" and who came from the East), support the evidence that at any time in the past, there was contact between the two shores of the Atlantic. Whether one of the sources was phoenician, it is at this time impossible to say.

- The Romans (200 BC - 300 AD)
This claim stands on even shakier grounds than the phoenician claim. There is no evidence whatsoever that I know of, and even worse, the Romans were not good sailors. In fact, most of their naval tech was either Greek, Phoenician, or Carthaginian.

- The Irish (around the 600s)
Based on a legend of an Irish saint that reached land on the other side of the ocean. Completely unsubstantiated by any sort of evidence.

- The Moors (circa 700 AD - 1200 AD)
This claim is completely ridiculous. It is based on the supposed "Moorish" appearance of some mesoamerican statues, that are in fact completely mesoamerican in origin. If I am not mistaken, the first Moor to reach the Americas was a slave under the expedition of Ponce de León

- The vikings (circa 800s - 1100)
This one is actually substantiated not only by the sagas, but by the archeological remains. The vikings would have done their own version of "island hopping" using Iceland and Greenland to reach Newfoundland. I actually believe this one, even if their are contradictions in the sagas regarding geography and weather.

- The Chinese under Zheng He (1419-1421)
The Ming eunuch admiral Zheng He led a huge fleet with more than 10,000 sailors in several hundred ships, in an expedition that reached the shores of eastern Africa. There is no evidence that he reached America. In fact, even the Chinese scholars think that Gavin Menzies and his "1421 - The year China found America" is a load of crap

- The Basques, Catalans, Portuguese fishermen (1300s)
There is some reason to suspect that any of these fishermen, searching for cod in the well known Newfoundland fisheries, could have sailed more to the west and found the mainland.

- Portuguese explorers (prior to 1424)
The 1424 map by german cartographer Waldsemuller shows quite distinctly that the Portuguese knew the cartography of the coast of Newfoundland, New England and Nova Scotia. Columbus would later marry Filipa Perestrelo (from the Perestrelo family of Portuguese explorers) and reputedly gain access to this map, and claim that one of the three "islands" found in this map were in fact Cuba, Hispaniola and Puerto Rico (I think).

- Christopher Columbus/Colon
Columbus did find the Antilles in 1492 and his find is well documented. There is actually more controversy regarding his ancestry. It is now known for a fact that his "Genoan" origin claims were forged in 18th century documents. Columbus never wrote anything in Italian (he only used broken Castillian, Catalan, or Portuguese). Most of the islands he named in the Antilles have Portuguese names (Cuba is just one among more than 30) and there is good reason to suspect that he was most likely an Iberian (Portuguese being the strongest claim).

Now, if Columbus (or Cristofõn Colon, as he signed his name) was in fact a Portuguese, there is every reason to suspect that he was a descendent of Portuguese Jews. A Portuguese historian suspects that he was one member of the Portuguese Jewish Zarco family (that produced explorers like João Gonçalves Zarco).

There is substantial material regarding this subject in this site

http://www.dightonrock.com/articles-Columbus.htm

Now why would there be so much fuss about Columbus in the Americans is something I never understood. He was a lousy sailor, a poor governor, and his finds were completely accidental (and based on an error that the Erath was 2/3 of its actual size). Columbus was a mistake. In fact that is the only reason why very few Portuguese scholars even bothered to address this matter, because he is a failure. Our failure, but still, a failure. If Italo-Americans need him for self-esteem purposes, so be it, but they should know that there were excellent Italian explorers that actually helped change the course of Mankind (like the XV century explorer of the African coast, working for Portugal, called Cadamosto).

Posted by: cruzado at August 18, 2007 1:38 PM

We all know that the Muslims came to America through their underground network of tunnels, but the Jews destroyed them along with the highly sophisticated technology involved in building them -- as well as the brilliant Muslim men who constructed these tunnels.

More reason to hate!

Posted by: champ at August 18, 2007 1:38 PM

And the cow jumped over the (Islamic crescent) moon.

Posted by: pythagoras at August 18, 2007 1:54 PM

There is another lesson here, I believe. On the one hand we are treated to yet another example of Moslem primacy: the first from the Old World to visit the New World. Whether there is any truth in it or not remains to be seen in my view. It is in any case irrelevant. Jews and Christians inhabited the Holy Land, Asia Minor and North Africa long before Mohammed and Khadija put together their business plan for taking over the lucrative Meccan pilgrimage trade. Moslem claims are nothing new, are almost always bizarrely extravagant (e.g. "Neil Armstrong heard the azan while landing on the moon and is now a Moslem"). But on the other hand we are witness to outrages perpetrated by Moslems against non-Moslems throughout the world.

Moslem claims of the kind presented here, true or not, have no bearing on the right of other people to live their lives in peace whether or not they embrace Islam. The piecemeal land grabbing must simply be stopped cold, with the recognition that Moslems will never be happy with that situation and will always rant against it when powerless or resort to any outrage when able to. Whatever their state, Moslems cannot, must not be further placated. They are implacable. The West in turn must henceforward be immovable: no more retreats, no more acquiescence.

If Moslems have achievements, I am happy for them provided they are verifiable as such. But is the disappearance of Augustine's city of Hippo an achievement? What about the Egypt of Anthony? Is the partitioning of Cyprus an achievement? How about leaving Israel in peace? Wouldn't that be an acievement?

Posted by: Chatillon at August 18, 2007 2:24 PM

Profitsbeard

I'm not familar with any attempted genocide against the indians. It sounds like more politically corrected up history to me.

Which president ordered their genocide?

I know people like to simplify our conflicts with the natives, but when you do that it can really give people the wrong impression, especially if they are not familar with American history.

Posted by: GuitarBob at August 18, 2007 2:51 PM

CapitalistGig

I'm a little rusty when it comes to the old testament, but doesn't it state that the garden of Eden was located between the Tigeris and Euphrates rivers? Which would put it in modern day Iraq.

This is also the area were we find evidence of some of the earliest civilizations on Earth, which I don't think is a coincidence.

Posted by: GuitarBob at August 18, 2007 3:02 PM

Allahfanculo posted:

"Hey.. I hear they even landed a man on the moon."

You're close. There are some who claim that Armstrong heard the call to prayer while on the moon and converted to Islam shortly after, It's in this link, toward the bottom

http://www.exn.ca/apollo/history/armstrong.cfm

Just goes to show you, the most off-the-wall thing you can dream up, the ROP has been there already.

Posted by: freedomschool at August 18, 2007 3:21 PM

Very few citations of articles and documents (may we see them for ourselves, please?), and very few specifics. And many of the anecdotes appear to be taken from Muslims who would have a vested interest in spreading this revisionist history. (And it appears Dr. Barry Fell wasn't exactly universally respected for his speculations.)

And if "mosques" were discovered in Cuba, Texas and elsewhere, well, where are they? Near what cities? Or did the sneaky infidel wipe out all traces of those, too, as he allegedly did to the "real" Injil and Tawrat?

As for the claim that Western explorers encountered "Moorish"-looking peoples, and may even have referred to them as "Mohammedans," we continue to see example after example even today that people can and do make huge mistakes in misidentifying people outside their own ethnicity: One might recall the recent news items about Middle Eastern men able to pass as Latinos and enter the country through Mexico.

All in all, a highly fractured fairy tale from Hisham Zoubeir.

Posted by: MarisolJW at August 18, 2007 3:24 PM

Sure, the mohammedans were in America.

Wasn't that when Al Gore invented the internet?

Posted by: joeblough at August 18, 2007 3:31 PM

MarisolJW ,
The original inhabitants of the "New World" were referred to as "Indians" because the explorers of the time thought they looked like people from India.
Calling them "Moorish" is probably the same mistake.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 18, 2007 3:31 PM

When was the last time a Native American was seen praying to Mecca?

I get the feeling that Islam was not well recieved by the Natives. If, in fact, there is proof of Muslims comming here.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at August 18, 2007 3:34 PM

I would have sincerely agree with everyone so far: The zombies now have their "claim" to the New World, and will not stop until they have it back.

Oh, and this little gem:

>> The name Tallahassee actually means, "Allah will deliver you sometime in the future".

Right. And 'Islam' really means peace in arabic.

I need another Tylenol...

Posted by: boneshack at August 18, 2007 3:39 PM

As far as I know, the ancestors of Native Americans crossed to North America via an ancient land-bridge that once spanned between Asia and the region of Alaska.

I suppose China will be making claims on American land next, but only when they become Muslims...

Posted by: Foehammer at August 18, 2007 4:03 PM

Prickzilla-

"...and crocodiles."

I think you mean alligators.

(Or is that Allah-gators?)

GuitarBob-

Let's not overdo the anti-p.c. to the point of denial.

The Native Americans, especially in North America, very likely would have been exterminated ("The only good Indian is a dead Indian") if the "newcomers" had been able to manage it. But conscience caught up with their generalized attempt to erase the original inhabitants before it succeeded.

We have great sins in our history that are a blot on the nation, but the freedoms the Founding Fathers codified in the Constitution eventually trumped the commonplace brutalities of much of the country's early years, and, judged reasonably, the growing meaning of America outweighs its many birth-flaws.

If non-natives had never come to the New World, the "Indian" inhabitants are likely to still have no science, no antiseptic/antibiotic/anaesthetic rationally-based medicine, no mechanical breakthroughs, no technology beyond the canoe and bow, and endless tribal warfare.

Let's not minimize the cruelties of all of our ancestors. Native and newcomer.

But let's celebrate the greatness of the American Revolutionists' liberating achievement in the Bill of Rights.

The simple phrase "All men are created equal" gave the entirety of humanity a new World.

I agree with Churchill that "democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the rest."

And that the birthpangs were worth it.

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 18, 2007 4:16 PM

cruzado

Since you agree with Saddam Hussein that Adam and Eve were the first Iraqis, you'll probably have to concede that the first sin was committed in Iraq.

For you information, Christopher Columbus spoke and wrote in Latin. He kept a log of his voyage to the New World, and it is available in English. All of my children have read it.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 18, 2007 4:16 PM

It all makes sense to me now.
We'd noticed some ruins on our farm property. One of the areas we excavated was apparently a latrine long ago. We'd never been able to figure out why it was full of pebbles and white underwear. ;-)

Posted by: livefreeordie!

It does make sense. How else did the people living here learn how to wipe their asses.

Posted by: TexasInfidel at August 18, 2007 4:18 PM

Beat this Mohammed :http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf073/sf073a01.htm

Posted by: teba at August 18, 2007 4:38 PM

Besides taking over the land, it also aims at conversion of native american population. LAck of complete exposure to germs of the old world,lack of fire power and so many differences between the old and new world doesn't mean anything to these ignorant fools.
Zubeir will do better if he spends time debating some Inadian (real) Hindus, who claim that Macca was infact a shrine of Lord Shiva, called 'Makkeshwar', which was destroyed by Mohammad as a revenge for expulsion of his ancestors from the shrine because they succumbed to the temptation of eating animals. THose are the assertions which seems to be as true as his claims, or even more true.

Posted by: pagan at August 18, 2007 4:44 PM

Now if Zoubeir claimed that Columbus recorded in the ship's log that he encountered numerous suicide bombers on his trips to the new world, I might see something credible in Mr. Zoubeir's claims of a Muslim connection to the Americas.

The real tragedy of this kind of crap, is that it's probably being taught in some U.S. school systems -- all in the name of "inclusion."

Posted by: rational at August 18, 2007 4:46 PM

All over Arabia, especially in northwestern Arabia are to be found, especially in the desert, stones with Hebrew writing on them. They long predate any writing in Arabic, because Arabic was not a written language until the 7th century. In First-Year Property, one learns about deeds and recording of deeds, and the difference between the first-in-time and first-to-record systems. Perhaps Jews should not make merely their obvious, well-justified, and modest historical claim to the Land of israel, but also to all of Arabia. And the Christian Copts do the same with Egypt - for god's sake, they were there long before the Muslim Arabs arrived. And the Christians to all of North Africa. And the Zoroastrians to all of Iran. And the Hindus to all of the area now split among the states of India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan.

All very silly. But two, three, four, and more, can play this game -- and what's more, the prior claims of the non-Muslims to vast lands are in fact based on history, as the claim of an early Muslim presence in America is not.

Besides, as always Muslims demonstrate an interest in land, not in people. It is the land they claim. They have no interest in the people here, and in the legal and political institutions created over time, the art and science created over time, by such people. Infidels hardly matter, except insofar as they remain an obstacle to the spread of Islam, and must be subdued, by deception or head-on, by qitaal or terrorism or Da'wa or demographic conquest. And by nonstop deception and lies intended to keep the unwary unwary, and to keep Infidels as confused and misinformed and as on the defensive as is possible.

It will work, for a while, with some. But too many are coming to their senses. Too many are finding out.

Posted by: Hugh at August 18, 2007 4:55 PM

An article this splendid deserves to be put up in full, not merely linked:

"Before the West declared themselves the great scientists of the earth, before their own Renaissance, Muslims already were making discoveries in science that took the West hundreds of years to even begin to imagine. What a shame that people in Europe were being persecuted by the Church for their suppositions that the earth was round; they should have come to the Islamic world—- an Afghan Muslim had proved that in 793 C.E.!

However, the studying of the universe brought forth more questions, and more curiosity. The Muslims in West Africa were so intrigued by what was on the other side of the Great Sea, that they began their expeditions into the great unknown. Early reports of these travels are sketchy, but we can be sure that they crossed the Atlantic by 889 C.E.

That was 603 years before Columbus. And that is not counting the actual physical evidence in the United States today that dates back even further; however, we do know, as De Lacy O’Leary pointed out, that Muslims definitely had the scientific knowledge and skill to make journeys across the Atlantic ocean.

We were in the Americas, hundreds of years before Columbus, and of that we can be sure.

Clyde-Ahmad Winters. Barry Fell. Alexander Von Wuthenau. Ivan Van Sertima. What do they have in common? A lot. They all provided evidence to the above statement; and it is a statement of fact, not an opinion, although many have chosen to ignore it.

Now, we are all aware of the grave tragedy that befell the various African people after the discovery of America. Many people from there were forcefully taken from their homes to America, to serve the people who had taken over that land. Black slavery. We also know, for a fact, that many of these people were indeed Muslims; that has never been in dispute, nor should it be. Clyde Ahmad Winters has given us details of how huge numbers of Muslims were brought to Latin America in a 1978 issue of Al-Ittihad: A Quarterly Journal of Islamic Studies, although later on in 1543, Muslims in Spanish colonies were ejected from them by the residing government.

Dr. Barry Fell, a noted New Zealand archaeologist and linguist of Harvard University showed detailed existing evidence in his work, "Saga America" that Muslims were not only in the Americas before Columbus arrived, but very active there as well. The language of the Pima people in the South West and the Algonquian language had many words in their vocabulary that were Arabic in origin, and Islamic petroglyphs were found in places such as California.

In the Inyo county of the State of California, according to Fell, there is another petroglyph that states, "Yasus bin Maria" which means in Arabic, "Jesus, son of Mary". This is not a Christian phrase; in fact, the phrase is to be found in the verses and ayahs of the Holy Qur’an. This glyph, as Fell believes, is centuries older than the US. In the US he found texts, diagrams and charts engraved on rocks that were used for schooling that dated back to 700-800 C.E. The schooling was in subjects such as mathematics, history, geography, astronomy and sea navigation. The language of instruction was Kufic Arabic, from North Africa.

The German art historian, Alexander Von Wuthenau, also provides evidence that Muslims were in America, in the time between 300 and 900 C.E. This was at least half a millennium before Columbus was born. Carved heads that were described as "Moorish-looking" were dated between 300 and 900 C.E. and another group of heads dated between 900 and 1500 C.E. An artifact found in the earlier group was photographed, and when later examined was found to resemble an old man in a Fez, like the Egyptians.

Ivan Van Sertima is widely renowned for his work, "They Came Before Columbus" which showed that there was definitely contact between the ancient and early African people with the Native Americans. This and another of his works, "African Presence in Early America" both prove that there were African Muslim settlements in the Americas, before the expedition of Columbus was even conceived. His research has shown that Arab Muslim trade was active in America and one can only imagine that the marvellous culture that the Native Americans had that shared so much with Islamic teachings was of great attraction to the Muslims that came so far across the sea.

And for the record, Christopher Columbus, the man who so-called discovered America, himself declared that his impression of the Carib people (i.e., Caribbean people) were "Mohemmedans." He knew of the Mandinka presence in the New World (Muslims) and that Muslims from the West coast of Africa had settled down in the Carribean, Central, South and North America.

Unlike Columbus, they had not come to enslave the populations or plunder the land; they had come to trade and they married among the Natives. Columbus further admitted that on October 21st, 1492, as he was sailing past Gibara on the coast of Cuba, he saw a Mosque. Remnants of other Masjids have been found in Cuba, Mexico, Texas and Nevada.

On the second voyage Columbus took to the West Indies, the people of Haiti told him that "black" people had been there before him. They showed him spears of these visitors, and further study of the metals involved in their construction showed that they could have been made only in one place: Guinea.

Another historian, P.V. Ramos, also showed in his essay in "African Presence in Early America" that the dietary regulations of the Carib were similar to Islamic teachings.

But let us say that we are wrong. Perhaps it is all just a coincidence; after all, there are no living survivors of the Native American Muslims, are they?

Wrong. And this last part is what originally drew me into this quest for knowledge: an exposé written by a Native Muslim.

Brother Mahir Abdal-Razzaaq El wrote in his account, posted on the Internet, about the Native Americans that were Muslims. He is of the Cherokee tribe; known as Eagle Sun Walker, and a Pipe Carrier Warrior of the Cherokees in New York. He tells of Muslim travellers that came to his land over one thousand years ago, and what is more important, existing evidence of legislation, treaties and resolutions that prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt that Muslims were in the Americas and very active. Although these documents have not been written after 1492, it is still interesting to note that Islam was in fact there. The Treaty of Peace and Friendship of 1787 have the signatures of Abdel-Khak and Mohammed Bin Abdulla. According to a federal court case from the Continental Congress, Native Muslims helped put life into the constitution.

These are a matter of record; they cannot be disputed. Go to the National Archives or the Library of Congress and see for yourself; the Treat of 1987 show that the Natives abided by an Islamic system in commerce, maritime shipping and government. The records of the State of Carolina has the Moors Sundry Act of 1790. The Cherokee Chief of 1866 was a man called Ramadhan Bin Wati. Native clothing up until 1832 was full Islamic wear. The name Tallahassee actually means, "Allah will deliver you sometime in the future". In North America, there are no less than 565 names of tribes, villages, cities, mountains and other lands sites of Islamic or Arabic roots.

The truth of Islam and the truth of the Native American culture is one and the same; many people hundreds of years ago realised that. The protection of the land and of the animals; the non-wastage of resources and the non-pollution of nature are all Islamic concepts.

I finish this article with a few Native sayings. And then, I want you to tell me that Islam is not nurtured in the hearts of these people.

"Our belief is that the Great Spirit has created all things. Not just mankind but animals, all plants, all rocks, all on earth and amongst the stars with true soul. For us, all life is holy. All of nature is within us and we are part of all nature." Chief White Cloud

"What is life? It is the flash of a firefly in the night." Crowfoot

"In the life of the Indian there was only one inevitable duty- the duty of prayer - the daily recognition of the Unseen and the Eternal." Ohiyesa

Allahu akbar. Salaam wa allaykum wa rakhmatullah wa barakatu.

(When this article was written in 1998, Hisham Zoubeir was at the University of Sheffield undertaking a multi-disciplinary degree in law. He has lived in Abu Dhabi, Cairo and London. His main interests delves into peace, equality, righteousness and spirituality.)

Read it and weep....tears of laughter.

Posted by: Hugh at August 18, 2007 5:31 PM

"When this article was written in 1998, Hisham Zoubeir was at the University of Sheffield undertaking a multi-disciplinary degree in law."

Hisham Zoubeir couldn't actually earn that law degree without acknowledging the legal principles of property* law (as posted by Hugh) could he? (rhetorical question)

* "In First-Year Property, one learns about deeds and recording of deeds, and the difference between the first-in-time and first-to-record systems." - Hugh

Posted by: justamomof4 at August 18, 2007 6:02 PM

Zoubeir, reading your lies,
the Yunwiya ancestors were displeased
and rose up screaming,

"Man of the forked tongue,
you will be delivered
to your rightful home.
Man of the forked tongue,
you will pray for deliverance
from the furies of those wrathful demons
that watch over the sacred land
and protect it from all evil.
Zoubeir of the forked tongue,
watch out for the dreaded Raven Mocker,
flying through the air in his fiery shape,
listen for his harsh croak when he comes for you.
Man of the forked tongue,
have great fear of the cannibal spirits
hiding in the water who will eat your flesh.
Watch out for the serpent Uktena
with its blood streaked crystal,
he waits in the dead of night
to have his way with you
and your forked tongue."

Posted by: the poetess at August 18, 2007 6:43 PM

Muslims (I presume he means Arabs) were in North America before Columbus but they couldn't get into Vienna and they couldn't get into Britain and they were turned away at France?

How were the Aztec or Incan civilizations ever able to survive the Muslim presence? Why weren't the Spanish conquistadors regaled with stories of Mohammad? I guess the Muslims also gave us chocolate. (That would be one accomplishment for which we can thank them.) Did the Alaskan natives build mosques before Columbus?

Great laugh for the day!

Posted by: PMK at August 18, 2007 6:56 PM

One of the 'experts' cited by Zubeir, Dr. BErry Fell. Although dismissed by serious archaeologists and mainstream researchers, for the sake of Zubeir, Dr. Fell's claim about the arrival of irish monks and Europeans on the America before Columbus are not even mentioned. views that vikings came to America long before columbus, which are based on DNA evidences.
Read wikipedia article on Fell, but check the references.
"As an example of Fell's claims, he and his followers have speculated that Irish monks reached North America centuries before Columbus. This is based on Fell's interpretation, published in 1983, of rock-cut inscriptions located at archaeological sites in West Virginia. According to Fell, these inscriptions narrated the story of Christ's nativity and were written in an old Irish script called Celtic Ogham dating back to the 6th or 8th century A.D.

Within the academic community, Fell's claims on epigraphy are generally not cited in the professional literature and, if addressed at all, universally dismissed.[1] His critics charge him with violating scientific archaeological protocols in order to make fantastic claims of pre-Columbian discoveries to a nonspecialist audience.[citation needed] One example of his linguistic work is his translation of an inscription containing the word "PIA", found on a rockface on Turkey Mountain near Tulsa, Oklahoma. Fell interpreted it as a Punic word meaning "white", and a nearby marking as a line of Ogham reading "GUIN", also meaning white in P-Celtic, asserting that it was a bilingual inscription.[2]"

I guess there are no leftist historians in US, otherwise the ideas of Zubier would have been mainstream by now.

Posted by: pagan at August 18, 2007 7:13 PM

Just as Muhammad expropriated the Jewish and Christian Prophets for Islam, so are his followers expropriating Western history and science for their religion. Isn't the first time history has been re-written, but should Islam capture the world, it will likely be the last.

Posted by: Cornelius at August 18, 2007 7:17 PM

mOslems were in America before Columbus??????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

YEAH, RIGHT! AND THEY LANDED ON THE MOON BEFORE APOLLO 11, TOO!
ROFLMFAO!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Somebody please get zoubeir back on his THORAZINE, or whatever anti-schizophrenic drug he's obviously in desperate need of! Better yet, revoke his day pass!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: jcom972 at August 18, 2007 7:27 PM

I hope this article included those great American statesmen descended from these early Muslim explorers? Men like Ibn Franklin, Thomas Jaffah'son, Franklin D'allah N'Roosevelt, John Faisal Kennedy and the Gipper himself, Ronallah'd R'agun

After all, wasn't it the Koran that originated the phrase: "All your base are belong to us!"

Posted by: Matamoros at August 18, 2007 7:50 PM

Muslims who are walking the thin red line between becomming an extremist or just floating along on the waves of uncertainty must beware of the implications and threats that eminate from such a rediculous statement by this creator of fantasy.

Those in thier desires to take more than that which they can stand to take usually end up losing much if not all of what they started with.

We have defended this land many times ,it's also in the history books,and you have failed yet to see a people fight as you will see the Free man and woman fight.

Islam is only as powerful as it's womens hems and it's wicked tongue and it's terrorism can be defeated at the end of any day.

I suggest muslims think long and hard about the lunacy found in thier spokesmens words and actions.Your time runs short.

Today already i have had two new members to my blog which means two new members who will now know about Jihad watch,have access to all the tools and weopons to fight against Islam and it's struggle,it's struggle to dominate.A struggle that it will find as a punishing and painful expierience,in the end.

Posted by: Dar al-harb at August 18, 2007 7:59 PM

Barry Fell's nonsense is well known to archaeologists and linguists and rejected by all serious scholars. A nice example of his staggering incompetence is his claim that a stone found in Mexico contains an inscription in a mediaeval South Indian script. It turns out that he had it upside down - when turned right-side up it is in perfectly ordinary colonial Spanish.

My own critique of Fell's claim that the Carrier language of British Columbia is Celtic may be found at: http://www.ydli.org/dakinfo/celticp.htm

Posted by: billposer at August 18, 2007 8:24 PM

Never one to let anachronisms get in the way of "true" science and history, I think the Muslims were the Helioti (inhabitants of the Sun) in Greek myth. The Sun is their birthright. I think we should help them to reclaim it.

Posted by: St. David, King of Georgia at August 18, 2007 9:05 PM

Muslims were definitely in Australia, look how many talented boomerang throwers there are in the MI.
Muslims can throw a boomerang with the best of them.

Posted by: duh_swami at August 18, 2007 9:14 PM

"Before the West declared themselves the great scientists of the earth, before their own Renaissance, Muslims already were making discoveries in science that took the West hundreds of years to even begin to imagine. What a shame that people in Europe were being persecuted by the Church for their suppositions that the earth was round; they should have come to the Islamic world—- an Afghan Muslim had proved that in 793 C.E.!"

You know, you really don't have to read any further than this in order to see how much "scholarship" went into this piece of drivel. The fact that the author seems unaware that the people-of-the-Middle-Ages-believed-the-earth-is-flat-truism is a myth indicates his study of "history" does not deserve serious consideration.

Posted by: CJ at August 18, 2007 9:18 PM

This article really a very strange symptom. How the even the most controversial, rejected claims are used for the fabrication of a lie to claim something for Islam. "THEY CAME BEFORE COLUMBUS" is a book claiming the credit for Africans. But Zubeir again sees something totally missing.
But what does Zubeir claims, what does he or the websites takes pride in, 'Muslims' did it, not Africans did it, or Arabs did it or anything like that, but just 'Muslims did it'. Most humanity would often consider their achievements as 'Europeans did it', Chinese did it, or say Indians did it..But for Muslims, every other identity is erased, nothing remains except for the narrow sense of being a muslim, and hence being separate from everyone who is not Muslim. Whether extremists or moderates, this sense pervades through out the Ummah.

Posted by: pagan at August 18, 2007 9:20 PM

This article reveals a very strange symptom. If we somehow ignore how anything available whether authentic or phoney has been distorted beyond identification to glorify Islam. Means does not matter: every lie, treachery, deception is fine as long as it glorifies Islam. This is the stange dictate of the religion, which goes against the shared wisdom of the rest of the humanity.
"THEY CAME BEFORE COLUMBUS" is a book claiming the credit for Africans. But Zubeir again sees something totally missing.
But what does Zubeir claims, what does he or the websites takes pride in, 'Muslims' did it, not Africans did it, or Arabs did it or anything like that, but just 'Muslims did it'. Most humanity would often consider their achievements as 'Europeans did it', Chinese did it, or say Indians did it..But for Muslims, every other identity is erased, nothing remains except for the narrow sense of being a muslim, and hence being separate from everyone who is not Muslim. Whether extremists or moderates, this sense pervades through out the Ummah.

Posted by: pagan at August 18, 2007 9:25 PM

This article reveals a very strange symptom. If we somehow ignore how anything available whether authentic or phoney has been distorted beyond identification to glorify Islam. Means does not matter: every lie, treachery, deception is fine as long as it glorifies Islam. This is the stange dictate of the religion, which goes against the shared wisdom of the rest of the humanity.
"THEY CAME BEFORE COLUMBUS" is a book claiming the credit for Africans. But Zubeir again sees something totally missing.
But what does Zubeir claims, what does he or the websites takes pride in, 'Muslims' did it, not Africans did it, or that Arabs did it or anything like that, but just 'Muslims did it'. Most humanity would often consider their achievements as 'Europeans did it', Chinese did it, or say Indians did it..But for Muslims, every other identity is erased, nothing remains except for the narrow sense of being a muslim, and hence being separate from everyone who is not Muslim. Whether extremists or moderates, this sense pervades through out the Ummah.

Posted by: pagan at August 18, 2007 9:26 PM

Hey.. I hear they even landed a man on the moon.
Posted by: Allahfanculo

Are you kidding me? They're at Saturn by now. Posted by: EliasAlucard

Either way.. they're both lunatics and space cadets!!

Wacky moFoes..

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 18, 2007 10:14 PM

...And folks, I have a bridge in Broklyn, NY, NY to sell to you. LOL

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at August 18, 2007 10:21 PM

Big deal. Lots of different folks came to the Americas before Columbus. I read an article (which I can't find at the moment) about recently discovered evidence of Whites being in North America even before the AmerIndians. The Incas had tales of White men with red hair who occupied their land before they did. Who knows what really happened so long ago?

Posted by: Head Bustin' Hank at August 18, 2007 10:30 PM

Head Bustin' Hank-

There was an ancient skeleton found in Oregon (or Washington?) a decade or more ago which appeared to match known Celtic remains from Europe much more that the "Siberian" remains of the "Native" Americans (and was similar to ones which were also were found in what is now China), upsetting the entrenched anthropologists so much that they reburied the remains, claiming that they were found on Native American land, and that the scientists had no right to disturb them (or thereby analyze the bones properly and potentially disrupt the acccepted theory of the "original" inhabitants of this continent).

The history of the New World (and Asia) is not what the simplifiers would have one believe.

"There more ...than is dreamed of in their philosophy."

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 18, 2007 10:55 PM

This basically comes down to theft. Theft of people's history, theft of people's identity. Muslims excel at this sort of "appropriation" of people's identity - i.e. theft.

What do modern thieves do? They steal your identity! The most brazen among them actually move into your home when you're not there and appropriate your identity. They get a hold of your credit cards ( a history that belongs to you - through your own hard work) and then they appropriate your hard-earned identity and milk it for every un-earned and un-deserved cent that they can can.

Theft- plain and simple.

Now what Muslim wants to step forward here and claim that their "prophet" that "perfect man"'s profession wasn't actually that of a professional THIEF. A caravan raider by trade.

Islam's most perfect man to be emulated was, in fact, by trade, a thief. The Koran actually talks about "booty" and the portion of the "booty" that belongs to Muhammad. What other spiritual text talks about booty? Don't Muslims see something wrong with this picture?

I think many people would agree that if you're going to be cruel enough to take all of their worldly goods, at least for God's sake, DO NOT touch what is most sacred to them, which is their identity, and which is why so many people, if they were forced to suddenly flee their homes in the event of a fire and they had only a few moments to choose what to take with them - the number one thing that most people would choose to rescue in such a circumstance - is their photo albums.

The fact that most people, in a moment of crisis, glancing desperately around them to discern what is the most precious thing of all for them to save in such a situation, is in fact, their photo albums - their history - goes to show what a heinous crime it is to steal someone's history from them. It erases the person. In the material world, it's the closest you can come to killing someone by erasing their personal identity and the identities of their father and mother and their grandfathers and grandmothers and so on.

The fact that Muslims have rewritten so many people's histories, and continue to do so today is not okay. It's theft. It's arguably the worst form of theft there is.

Muhammad was a professional thief. It's how the man made his living. That fact has ramifications that continue to reverberate down some 14 centuries. It's well beyond time to put a stop to Islamic theft, in all its various permutations.

Posted by: Caroline at August 18, 2007 11:08 PM

To allahs credit: I guess he had the good sense not to let Muslims occupy America in the first place.

And to our credit, they never will.

Posted by: champ at August 18, 2007 11:14 PM

I would merely add that the kind of person who would steal from someone else - especially steal their identity - steal anything they haven't actually earned - is someone who feels a sense of "entitlement". And a sense of "entitlement" is characteristic of people who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder as well as other forms of sociopathy.

Posted by: Caroline at August 18, 2007 11:17 PM

Hey Get this one!! this Iman is on the Board of Advisors at Kahil Gabran!!

from a story at Stop the Madrassa website where they are fighting against the opening of a School for "Arabic-English studies

the actual headline:
__

History Lesson from KGIA Advisory Imam - Muslims Discovered America!
August 18th, 2007 — stopthemadrassa

16 Days until KGIA opens. Time to get into that back-to-school spirit, so we’ll be posting new KGIA “Likely Lessons” . Today’s history lesson, from KGIA Board of advisors member Imām Al-Hājj Tālib ‘Abdur-Rashīd: Muslims discovered America!

__

my god, they are about to start teaching this science fiction at an american school!!!!

Posted by: Leave Iraq Now at August 18, 2007 11:35 PM

here's the link...sorry

http://stopthemadrassa.wordpress.com/2007/08/18/history-lesson-from-kgia-board-muslims-discovered-america/

Posted by: Leave Iraq Now at August 18, 2007 11:39 PM

OK,

So I don't believe this for a minute.

BTW, someone posted about "some saint" who visited America in 570. That would be "Brenden the Liar" Who came back with wild tales of animals that looked like the eastern buffalo. Supposedly he landed someplace near Rhode Island, and walked what is today the Appalachian trail, leaving some carvings either a Galic or Latin *can't remember) on some large rock formations in North Carolinia.

So...if the story about Muslims is true, then there's no reason to think that St. Brenden wasn't here 300 years before them, same evidence.

A couple of other questions that I haven't seen here:

assuming this to be true:....

(1) IF muslims got to North American 603 years before Columbus, why wasn't the entire continent already muslim? I mean, obviously the first peoples aren't "people of the book" so they should either be converted, or dead - how come it was neither?

(2) If a stone tool society, broken up into 500 different tribes that often don't get along is able to resist/defeat the threat of islam, that should be excellent news to our 21st century techno society, especially when the bad guy still has a 7th century mentality.

(3) If I was trying to push islam, I'd be keeping this quiet, as it shows even stone age tribes recognize what BS Moe was throwing around, AND resist an invader that's two steps up on the techno ladder (stone, bronze then iron)

(4) If true that muslims were in North America with that much of a head start, it just goes to show was a failure it is if 600 years later and folks didn't even know it was here. Vs. a MAJOR difference in the 500 years since Western Civ arrived.

As for the conicidences cited in the articles - um,that's what it is. Conicidence. One must ask how come there are so FEW conicidences?

Posted by: Sandpeep at August 18, 2007 11:44 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Isalm stated by Muhammed in the early 7th century? Wasn't Christopher Columbus in the new world(America)in the 5th century? Something just doesn't add up here...and I thought Muslims invented Algebra!

Posted by: Mac55 at August 19, 2007 12:40 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Isalm started by Muhammed in the early 7th century? Wasn't Christopher Columbus in the new world(America)in the 5th century? Something just doesn't add up here...and I thought Muslims invented Algebra!

Posted by: Mac55 at August 19, 2007 12:41 AM

It was the 15th century, but it makes no difference...they were never here, 600 years, 6 year (or 6 minutes for that matter) before Columbus.
There is no evidence of them ever being here before Columbus, nor is there even circumstantial, no matter how skillfully some fraudulent loony-tunes of an absurd claim wishes to spin it.

It didn't happen...the end.

Posted by: jcom972 at August 19, 2007 1:00 AM

In the article it says:

"In the Inyo county of the State of California, according to Fell, there is another petroglyph that states, "Yasus bin Maria" which means in Arabic, "Jesus, son of Mary". This is not a Christian phrase; in fact, the phrase is to be found in the verses and ayahs of the Holy Qur’an."

It says this is what it says in the Qur'an. Ok, I thought it would be "Issa bin Maryam"....

Posted by: ThinkForYourself at August 19, 2007 1:16 AM

Offtopic a bit - re. St Brendan (known as St Brendan the Navigator) - see Tim Severin, "The Brendan Voyage" (1978) - whether it happened or not, there is in fact nothing to say that it DIDN'T. Early Irish monks did have sturdy, seaworthy boats capable of deepwater voyages; plus physical toughness, the practical sailing skills, and the independence of mind and endless intellectual/ spiritual curiosity required. The last quality, of course, being something that Islam has never historically encouraged in its True Believers.

Severin showed that it is perfectly possible to cross the North Atlantic, 'island-hopping' the 'Stepping-Stone Route', in a 5th-century Irish sailboat of oxhides greased with woolfat (the hard part is east-west; coming home is dead easy, westerly tailwind all the way); because he made such a boat, from scratch, using all the traditional materials, and sailed it there. Severin's wife was a scholar of medieval lit and the whole enterprise kicked off when she remarked how 'odd' the Brendan stories were, compared to other contemporary saints' lives or wonder tales - that they read more like down to earth 'history' than anything else.

I'd say the chance that at least one boatload of 5th century Irish monks made it to the shores of Newfoundland, say, for a very brief visit (hence lack of archaeological evidence - unlike the Vikings they weren't looking for territory so didn't settle) and then back home again, is a whole lot better than the chance that any Muslim centuries later could have done it.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 19, 2007 1:39 AM

What a tissue of falsehoods and errors--some of which are exposed by the postings above--beginning with the first paragraph of this rehashed rubbish! And elsewhere:

"The German art historian, Alexander Von Wuthenau, also provides evidence that Muslims
were in America, in the time between 300 and
900 C.E.[Common{i.e., Christian}Era] ... Carved
heads that were described as 'Moorish-looking'
were dated between 300 and 900 C.E. ... An artifact...was photographed, and when later examined was found to resemble an old man in a Fez, like the Egyptians."

Very unlikely! The Muslims didn't subdue Mauretania (Morroco) or cross the Strait of Gibraltar until the beginning of the Eighth Century. And someone must have noticed the incongruity of iconoclastic Muslims having "carved heads" as artifacts! Not to mention the silly interpretations these sources give them.

Posted by: John C at August 19, 2007 1:47 AM

Caroline - just have to add: great point you made, and bang on topic, about identity theft, the thief mentality as a fundamental paradigm within Islam (since Mohammed the caravan raider is the model), and entitlement, as shown by this bizarre tendency of Islam, e.g. in the article under discussion, to claim/ steal anything and everything, up to and including other people's history and intellectual property, in flat defiance of all established and observable facts.

"Mohammed told such Dreadful Lies/ It made one Gasp and Stretch One's Eyes".

And many of his followers, all too often, follow his example.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 19, 2007 1:49 AM

You are right Gramfan about our illustrious catmeat drongo claiming that islam was in Oz first and ruins of mosques in the outback.
Lived for many years and travelled extensively in the Northern Territory but didn't see the ruins.
As has been said in earlier postings, they want to be able to say they are reclaiming muslim lands...............Over my dead body they will ............I think I would like to call for the extermination of islam.....not people......just islam........evil, evil, evil.

Posted by: marilyn at August 19, 2007 2:03 AM

Head Bustin Hank,

You're thinking of Kennewick Man. Like the small number of other palaeo-indian skeletons, it is different from typical native American skeletons, but it isn't really European either. It most closely resembles those of Polynesians and Ainu. The local tribes pushed hard to prevent scientific study but the courts ultimately ruled in favor of science. The SITE at which the skeleton was found was reburied, not the skeleton itself.

Posted by: billposer at August 19, 2007 2:43 AM

There is some evidence to suggest that Chinese Explorer "Zheng He" may have been in North America some 70 years before Columbus set sail and the Chinese Explorer's crew may have been Muslim?

Likewise there is no doubt that the United States has a deep "Christian" heritage."

The Original Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, Hon. John Jay (appointed by George Washington) said, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty--as well as the privilege and interests--of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christian's for their rulers."

"Blessed is the nation whose G-d is the Lord." Psalms 33:12

Posted by: Cristy Li at August 19, 2007 7:54 AM

"Hey.. I hear they even landed a man on the moon."
Posted by: Allahfanculo
"Are you kidding me? They're at Saturn by now." Posted by: EliasAlucard
yes - next stop - 'Ur anus ... (and not the planet)
BTW - the Jews were in Mekka and Medina thousands of years before the pirates of the moon god arrived

Posted by: TINBH at August 19, 2007 8:02 AM

Several years ago Phyllis McIntosh of the State Department put out a press release: "Islamic Influence Runs Deep in American Culture." At the time there should have been a hue and cry all over America. Congressmen should have demanded not merely the front-man McIntosh be hauled up for questioning, but that all those behind her, who had thought such an obvious affront to history -- there has been no "Islamic Influence" that is "deep" in American culture, unless one wishes to call the buildup of the American navy, as prompted by the Muslim threat of the Islamic corsairs now called, misleadingly, the "Barbary pirates" (they had official sanction, and would register their intended Christian target -- see Robert A. Davis), and there is nothing about Islam's collectivism, Islam's hatred of the very idea that political legitimacy could be located in the will of the people (when it should always be located in the will of Allah), or that individuals had such rights as freedom of speech and freedom of conscience, when of course they are mere slaves of Allah, and cannot, in the Islamic view, possibly possess such rights.

Congressmen and the press should have asked for a an investigation into the participation in a monsetrous, and no doubt deliberate lie, a lie that is part of other lies -- including those being spread by the Guirard/Waller school as they make their way through the corridors of power in the Pentagon, attempting to prevent an intellligent discussion of Jihad, of by sleight-of-hand ("Jihad" never to be mentioned; "irhaba" instead to be used as the Saudis wish, on the theory, not very plausible to intelligent people, that if we play Let's Pretend about Islam, the problem of Jihad will go away, if we ignore the texts, the tenets, the attitudes, the atmospherics of Islam, if we keep pretending that "Jihad" does not mean what it has meant, to Muslims, for the entire history of Islam, but something like what the sinister apologists now claim -- merely a "spiritual struggle" -- and if further we call what all the terorrists do not "Jihad" but "irhaba," that will cause Muslims everywhere to exclaim to themselves "quite right, they are all engaged in 'irhaba.'"

But of course "irhaba" is used within Saudi Arabia, by the Saudis, to convince Saudi members of Al-Qaeda or other groups now attacking the Saudi state from within, that this is wrong, that this is un-Islamic, not because such attacks by Al Qaeda are everywhere wrong, but because attacks on the nice, truly Islamic state of Saudi Arabia are directed at the wrong target.

And what do those Saudi clerics sent in to work at re-educating the prisoners tell them? Do you think they tell them that "Jihad" or violence are not part of Islam? Do they rewrite the story of Muhamamd to turn him into Jesus? Do they say that it is wrong to attack Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists outsidew of Saudi Arabia? Of course they don't. What they say -- and what the Guirards of this world, busily plying their trade in the corridors of power, where there are always some ignorant, unwary, looking-for-a-quick-solution-even-if-it-makes-no-real-sense people eager to be persuaded (in the Pentagon, in the State Department) -- is that the Saudi rulers have been misunderstood. Of course they are good Muslims. Of course they are not really collaborating with the Infidels. Of course they are working to spread Islam everywhere, paying for the land, building the mosques, maintaining the mosques, spreading that Wahhabi propaganda. Of course they are paying for Muslims conducting Da'wa around the world, and sending their own people into sub-Saharan Africa (just look at how the practice of Islam has changed, for example, in such places as Niger). Of course they are working for the final triumph of Islam. But -- but you see -- the imams in charge of the slow but steady "re-education" add -- don't you see that for now we must behave as Muhammad beheaved with the Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya? Don't you see that we are not yet strong enough to take on the Infidels directly, through military means? We are doing -- the Al-Saud have their tame sheiks tell those few hundred "Al Qaeda" sympathizers in Saudi jails -- the very best we can. And if you call into question the rule of the splendid princes of the Al-Saud, those benevolent rulers, all dishdashas and daggers, with those sneers of cold command -- why then you merely confuse the people, you bring "confusion" into the land. You are guilty, then, of "irhaba."

And that is how and why "irhaba" is used. Not, I repeat, not to prevent Muslims from conduting Jihad, that is warfare by all means, which may include what ordinary Infidels would clearly call "terrorism" but which many Muslims have no difficulty, when the target is Infidels, seeing as merely a perfectly acceptable version of "qitaal" (mentioned 27 times in the Qur'an) or combat, i.e. military force. And certainly not to prevent Muslims from conducting Jihad by means of all the other instruments available, including the Money Weapon, propaganda including campaigns of Da'wa, and demographic conquest.

After all, the Saudi sheiks re-educating those prisoners can tell them -- who is the biggest financier of the Jihad in the world today? It is the government, and rich groups and individuals, within Saudi Arabia. Are they not good Jihadists? Who makes possible those mosques in Rome, in Madrid, in Paris, in London, in New York and Washington, and all the others, in a capillary movement, in cities and towns all over the apprently wide-open, helpless-to-resist Western world? Sure, the Emirates and Kuwait and Qatar and a few others provide billions. But we, the Saudis, have provided one hundred billion dollars in such spread-the-faith activities, while in its decades, the Soviet Union managed to supply to foreign Communists, and to its propaganda effort, a paltry $7 billion. Who's calling for a Jihad against us, the Al-Saud? Only those who do not know all of our good works, or who, like Bin Laden, have "personal issues" (the family, the 57 children, the sting of being the product of that Syrian not-quite-halal mother, and so on).

That is what is being done to prevent, even in the Pentagon, the emergence of some sense about what is going on.

Meanwhile, as the example of McIntosh's report about the supposedly great Islamic Influence on the history of America, the State Department, or elements within, are keen to appease Islam in every way, and perfectly willing to do violence to this country's history, to world history, in order to conduct that appeasement.

When McIntosh issued her press release, it was mocked by Robert Spencer and then by me, and then by others, and nothing more was heard about it. But the impulse remains, and the ignorance of those who, for example, on television interview Muslim spokesmen, but haven't a sufficient grasp -- have no grasp, in fact -- of either the history of Islam or the history of the United States -- makes them unable to present the withering cross-examination that they should be conducting, should be conducting so often that any appearance by an apologist for Islam becomes an occasion for a spectacle that will wake up and convince the audience, of the monstrousness of what is being suggested and even, perhaps, believed, by Muslims as they weave their case, for themselves and for others, as to why they have a "claim" on America, a "claim" that really means: 1) we are here 2) you can't get rid of us 3) this country, like the rest of those lands that are still in the hands of the Infidels, the Dar al-Harb, is legitimately ours, and we will say or claim whatever we need to to confuse you, to keep you unwary or on the defensive. "Muslims were in England in the 8th century." "Muslims are responsible for all of modern science." "Muslims are responsible for the Renaissance." "Muslims discovered, and what's more settled, America." Muslims this, and Muslims that.

Tout se tient. Everything connects, in Muslim propaganda. And those who further that propaganda, or the obvious ways that they attempt to make claims, or to use and manipulate the ignorance of Westerners (those who think the word "Jihad" can sensibly replaced by the word "irhaba" as the Saudis so smilingly, so =deeply truly sincerely suggest to the light-bulb-just-came-on, bright-idea clowns, but dangerous clowns, such as Guirard and all his tribe)are furthering Jihad.

As to Phyllis McIntosh, where is she now? And who put her up to that idiotic press release? Where are they know? Still deep within the State Department, or having risen still higher in its ranks?

Posted by: Hugh at August 19, 2007 8:35 AM

I the name of Christianity I claim our presence in all of the World . So would all Muslims please leave the planet .

Posted by: thedoc at August 19, 2007 8:56 AM

Three years ago, as Muslims in America were working to claim that Muslims had been with Christopher Columbus )for obvious reasons having to do with building up an entirely factitious history of a long-term "Islamic" presence here and there and everywhere), the State Department decided to play ball, and be of whatever ahistorical assistance it could be. For those in the State Department, not everyone in it, but too many in it, have repeatedly demonstrated both their lack of knowledge of relevant history, and at times even a wilful ignorance, and an eagerness to overlook what the historical record may possibly teach.

Robert Spencer responded. Here is his piece:

September 15, 2004, 5:56 a.m.

Christopher Columbus, Multicultural
Politics, not history, is behind this new tale.

"Not too many years ago, I witnessed a small band of angry protesters stalking down a Manhattan street chanting, "Columbus! Did Not! Discover! America!" I remember how quickly Columbus became a symbol of all that was wrong with the West: racism, imperialism, colonialism — and don't forget smallpox and cholera.

But now the old sea dog can come in from the cold, though an unlikelier candidate for a multicultural poster child could hardly be found. In a press release issued late last month titled "Islamic Influence Runs Deep in American Culture," Phyllis McIntosh of the State Department's Washington File burbles that "Islamic influences may date back to the very beginning of American history. It is likely that Christopher Columbus, who discovered America in 1492, charted his way across the Atlantic Ocean with the help of an Arab navigator."

Rewrite the history books, indoctrinate the children, and you can own the future. The bit about the Arab navigator is not just being put out by State, but will also be taught in Massachusetts public schools this year. Some lucky Massachusetts teachers were recently treated to a week-long workshop called "The Genesis and Genius of Islam." It featured professors from Boston College, College of the Holy Cross, Harvard, and Bridgewater State College, including Ibrahim Kalin, assistant professor of religious studies at Holy Cross. According to a local Massachusetts paper, Kalin said that "Islamic sailors were the best seamen of the day," and "noted that even Christopher Columbus had several Muslim sailors on his voyage that wound up in the New World."

Unfortunately for State and the schoolchildren of Massachusetts, there is not a shred of historical evidence for this. While assertions of this kind can readily be found on Islamic websites, none of the preeminent historians of Columbus's voyages — not Samuel Eliot Morison, Salvador de Madariaga, Paolo Emilio Taviani, or any other — has any record of this Muslim presence among the crew. And remember, Columbus was only sailing in the first place to find a way for European traders (who were Christians in those days) to avoid land routes to the Far East. Those land routes were controlled by Muslims, and passed through areas only recently conquered from Christians — most notably, the ancient holdings of the Byzantine empire, whose capital, Constantinople, had fallen to the Muslims in 1453. Columbus was commissioned by Ferdinand and Isabella, who had just defeated the last Muslims in Spain and driven them out of the country.

Did Columbus tag after the retreating Muslims and hire a navigator and a few sailors? According to the leading authority on Columbus's voyages, the historian Samuel Eliot Morison, the name of Columbus's navigator was Martín Pinzón, who served as captain of the Pinta. Of the known names of his crew members, there is an abundance of Juans and Pedros, but nary a Mahmoud or Ahmad. In those days, Christian names almost always meant the bearer was a Christian. As Muhammad Ali and Yusuf Islam can tell you, it is unlikely that a Muslim would have borne a Christian name.

It is even more unlikely that Muslim crewmen would have willingly served under Christians. Muslim Spain was not the multicultural paradise of modern myth; it was, rather, a sharia state in which non-Muslims were forbidden to hold authority over Muslims. This law was sometimes ignored, but that always aroused the resentment of the Muslim populace. Would Muslim sailors who had so recently been citizens of this state have willingly signed on to take orders from Christians — and men against whom they had just been at war?

Further, Muslim sailors would not have found Columbus's ships a congenial atmosphere: Columbus firmly believed that the Christian God had called him to this mission. In the diaries he kept during the voyage, he praised Ferdinand and Isabella for being "Catholic Christians, and princes who love and promote the holy Christian faith," as well as for being "enemies of the doctrine of Mahomet, and of all idolatry and heresy."

Columbus's crew prayed often on the ship — Christian prayers, not multicultural ones, and certainly not the maghrib and isha prayers or any other of the five daily prayers of Islam. "At sunset," according to Morison, "the Blessed Virgin was saluted with her ancient canticle, Salve Regina." Neither Morison nor any other historian of Columbus's voyages records any protest by Muslim crewmen against this overt display of Christian religiosity. Columbus's crew, historians record, even broke out in Te Deum, laudamus when they sighted land. Of the captain himself, Morison notes that "as a pious Christian, faithful in his religious duties, Columbus kept a book of hours in his cabin, and whenever possible said his prayers in private at the appointed hours."

There was an Arabic speaker on hand — but he was of Jewish, not Muslim background. According to historian Thomas W. Jodziewicz of the University of Dallas, "There was a converted Jew on board Columbus' ship who spoke Arabic: if Chinese or Japanese folks were contacted, he would supposedly be able to communicate with them!"

So why are the State Department and the Massachusetts public schools purveying all this hooey? Repeated calls to the State Department and Phyllis McIntosh went unreturned; the State Department's Bureau of International Information Programs issues a blizzard of press releases on its website, but offers no clear or easy way to contact a live human in the office. Its contact procedures are labyrinthine, self-contradictory, and generally culminate in an answering machine on which messages go unreturned.

Why would an "information" bureau play so hard to get? Could it be to fend off embarrassing questions from Americans while spreading politically motivated, ahistorical fairy tales to an eager international audience? The agenda is clear: This is about contemporary p.c. politics, not history.

It's all presented as an exercise in understanding. Speaking of his students, a Massachusetts history teacher who attended the workshop asked, "How can they understand Iraq if they don't know the history of the people?" Indeed. But it really isn't the history of Iraq, or of Columbus's voyages, that State and the Massachusetts educrats are interested in. What they're really on about is the history — and future — of the United States.

The multiculturalist fantasy is designed to make Americans more accepting of an influential Islamic presence in this country. But unfortunately, since few at the State Department seems concerned about how to screen terrorists out of this Islamic presence, they're likely to find that the Muslims to whom they have surrendered their history — and whom they have invited into their future — are no more multicultural than their forefathers of 1492."

Posted by: Hugh at August 19, 2007 9:04 AM

Another thing Muslims have done is attempt to force Infidels to be constantly aware of the danger of offending them, by any celebration of any event having to do with victories, in the past, over Muslims. Can Spain show any awareness, or take pride in, the Reconquista? Can the Americans openly hail the efforts of William Eaton, the American consul in Tripolitania, to go overland to free Americans held prisoners by the bey of Tripoli? Can they hail the efforts by Jefferson and the still-nascent navy to refuse to pay tribute to the Muslims who preyed on Christian shipping, unlike the European powers? Can we openly delight in the fact that near Poitiers, in 732, the Muslim Arabs were defeated by Charles Martel, and as Gibbon said, the spires of Oxford were not instead the minarets of a Total System that deplores most forms of artistic expression, and discourages the free and skeptical inquiry without which science -- as opposed to mere borrowing of the discoveries of others (see those Hindu mathematicians, those Chinese paper-makers, and of course all that Western technology -- the printing-press that a Hungarian convert to Islam, Ibrahim Muteferrika, was at long last allowed to introduce into the Ottoman empire in 1729, as one among a thousand examples -- that was appropriated, or simply accepted, as all that modern weaponry is accepted from the West as if by right, for Islam has become a Cargo Cult, which waits for the Infidel manna, in the form of goods and services, to arrive from the big birds descending god-like from the sky. Muslims still do not understand that their many failures, economic and political and social, moral and intellectual, are not the result of Infidel plotting but the result of what Islam itself imposes on Muslims, on what it encourages: that habit of mental submission, that willingness to obey a ruler if that ruler is Muslim, that inshallah-fatalism; and what it discourages and punishes, sometimes by death: above all, free and skeptical inquiry. And that is why, despite the ten trillion dollars in unmerited oil wealth, received by Muslim oil states just since 1973, not one has managed to stop being reliant on the wage-slaves from outside the Muislim world, from the lowly mistreated workers, to the Korean building contractors to, at the top, those European and American oil engineers and doctors.

Several years ago, I posted here a little piece imagining how, in a Muslim-dominated Europe (and such domination does not require a Muslim majority, but only an Infidel population that has been, even if it remains a majority, sufficiently cowed to do Muslim bidding), the Battle of Lepanto, in 1571, part of the War over Cyprus, between Venice (helped by Spain and the Papacy), and the Ottomans, which was a victory in a war that ultimately the Ottomans won.

I'll put it up again in a fresh box -- must remember at JW to think inside the box -- below.

Posted by: Hugh at August 19, 2007 9:25 AM

Here it is:

June 29, 2005
Fitzgerald: Celebrating Lepanto, 2021

Note by Robert: Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald, inspired by this Red-and-Blue politically correct celebration of the Battle of Trafalgar, peers into his crystal ball and sees, a mere 16 years hence, what the celebrations of the Battle of Lepanto will be like in the looming Eurabia

"The year: 2021. The occasion: the 450th anniversary of the Battle of Lepanto, where the Turkish fleet under Ali, the captain pasha, was defeated by the naval forces of Venice and of Spain (commanded by Don John of Austria, natural brother to the great Philip II, King of Spain). This victory helped repulse the constant efforts by the Muslim Turks to penetrate even further and seize even more Infidel lands in Eastern and Central and Southern Europe.

At the site of the engagement, the ships are all identical. Indeed, they all belong to the Eurabian fleet of a newly-expanded Eurabia, in which Turkey is the most populous member.

Of course, no one in his right mind would have wanted to label the ships with such words as "Turkish" or "European" (much less "Venetian"). "We are all Turks now," joked the French Foreign Minister, Ekmelledin Uzal, to his British counterpart, Manwar al-Oteiba. But of course, it would not do to label the sides "Turkey" and "Turkey."

Cornel West, Jr., son of the celebrated winner of two Nobel Prizes (one in literature and another for peace), was chosen to organize this event that holds so much significance for the world's peoples.

He was a natural choice. For, as president of the Eternal Peace and Dialogue-to-Death Foundation, which boasts 800,000 employees in 65 countries and is funded with the turned-over endowments of several self-extinguishing foundations, including the Ford Foundation, the Carnegie Endowment for Peace, the Soros Foundation, the Buffett Foundation, the Packard Foundation, the Walton Foundation, the Gates Foundation, the Olayan, Khashoggi, and Khaddafy Foundations, as well as the assets of three dozen slightly smaller foundations that had similarly disbanded, from all parts of the globe.

It was he, the brilliant son of an even more brilliant father, who finally hit upon the right way to label those ships that were to re-enact the Battle of Lepanto in a spirit not of celebrating a victory (what does "victory" mean, and what is "defeat," when we are all the children of the same god, and all of us indistinguishable one from the other, after all?).

At first, Cornel West, Jr., possibly remembering how the Battle of Trafalgar was re-enacted years ago, when his father was still a hard-working University Professor at Princeton and celebrated winner of the 2005 Lannan Prize for Services to Culture and Humanity, or Humanity and Culture, or something -- thought the two sides might indeed be labeled the "Blue Team" and the "Red Team," as had been done for the Trafalgar anniversary. But then it was pointed out that the painting would be costly, and besides, what with the ozone layer constantly thinning out into nothingness, more and more people seemed to be suffering from daltonism, which meant that millions of spectators watching the re-creation on television would have difficulty distinguishing one team from the other.

Then West had a brilliant idea. It was, like all brilliant ideas, so obvious -- and yet, no one had thought of it. It would make clear, utterly and transparently clear, what wars and bloodshed were really all about. They were about nothing at all. They had nothing to do with any discrete quarrels, any venomous ideologies, any attempts by one side or another to conquer one side, or another.

No, wars -- Man's Inhumanity to Man -- was all about The Other. Man, especially Western man, European man, or European man's mutated descendants in North America, who were consumed with the need to create, and then to mount a campaign against, The Other. It could be anything. It didn't matter. In the time of Lepanto, it was the terrible Turks, the malignant and the turbaned Turks, the Turks of "Mama li turchi" used to scare little Italian children.

And so it came to pass, that in 2021, in the re-created Battle of Lepanto, where Cervantes lost a hand (and later would lose his freedom to a renegade, a Christian-turned-Muslim slave-master named Venedikili Hasan Pasha, a future Beylerbey of Algiers), each side bore the exact same label -- a label that showed the futility of all warfare, of all distinctions, of all the silliness that Western man, especially, has inflicted on the otherwise naturally peaceful people in this naturally harmonious world (don't you find it getting just a little hot, and stuffy, and harder to breathe, in this wonderful still fossil-fuel-driven world of ours?).

And this is what the great son of the even greater father decided to do:

He labeled the ships of the Venetians, and the other European contributors to the fleet, "The Other." And then he labeled all the ships that represented the naval fleet of the Ottoman Turks with signs that read "The Other."

And that was that. The Battle of Lepanto. "The Other" vs. "The Other." For there is no "Other" now, in 2021. And in truth, there never really was "the Other" -- for "the Other" was simply a construct of the Western world, one which the peaceful non-Westerners made the terrible mistake of borrowing from them.

As Mustafa Schwartz-Weiss Kara-Akyol al-Padovi, the Italian Minister of Culture, noted, "yes, we are all Turks and Muslims now. We are all "The Other" now. Alhamdulillah, we are all friends, there will be no more war. There didn't have to be war in 1571. We could all have saved a lot of time, a lot of pain, if only the Venetians and the Spanish had understood then what everyone in Europe now understands."

Fruit drinks were sold. There was loukoum. There was iced Moroccan mint tea There were hubble-bubble pipes.

A splendid time was had by all."

[Posted by Hugh at June 29, 2005 1:12 PM]

Posted by: Hugh at August 19, 2007 9:29 AM

Profitsbeard

You used the term genocide which implies an organized attempt at extermination, but you can't name one executive order calling for the indians extermination.

Our conflicts with the natives started before we were even a nation and continued into the early 20th century. These conflicts consisted of a variety of wars and smaller skirmishes against many different tribes for many different reasons.

You make it sound like it was one giant genocidal campaign from beginning to end. Maybe you think that's just simplifying a complicated and long history, but the result is a misleading version of history that turns indians into perpeptual victims, and whites into their perpeptual oppressers.

King Philip's war, the French and Indian, the Pontiac rebellion, none of these conflicts had anything to do with the American government attempting genocide against the natives.

People now shed tears for Indians, but does anyone care about the Roanoke colony? The frontier settlements burnt to the ground during the french and indian wars? The French indian allies gave no quarter to white settlers during that war, but nobody cares when we're the victim.

Now I'm not trying to make the Indians into the "bad guys" and the settlers into the "good guys" or vice verca. All I'm trying to do is explain that the various Indian wars were a lot more complicated, and should not be painted with such a broad brush.

We have enough self-hating westerners thanks to PC myths, and the dumbing down of history.

Posted by: GuitarBob at August 19, 2007 11:06 AM

Well now I feel an idiot. All that talk about dumbing down history, and I misspell perpetual twice. Oh and "oppressers" should be oppressors.

I really need some spell check on this thing.

Posted by: GuitarBob at August 19, 2007 11:10 AM

Kudos to the people who commented on the Greeks' knowledge of the earth's correct shape and Eratosthenes discovery of it's circumference (to a remarkable degree of accuracy) and the various legends surrounding early exploration. I would be embarrased to be associated with such crap as published in The Muslim Weekly - but then again, I don't belong to that cult.

Hugh: IMO - nothing sums up present Islam (and its supposed glorious history of scientific advancement) better than clicking the link to Science and Technology. Under this heading there is exactly ONE entry and that deals with Allah's creations. What a bunch of assholes.

http://www.themuslimweekly.com/innerview.aspx?MENUID=SCIENCE&DESCRIPTION=Science%20and%20Technology

Posted by: johnb at August 19, 2007 11:14 AM

Millions for Defence;
Not One Cent for Tribute [jizya]

According to Zoubeir, there is "evidence that Muslims were in America, in the time between 300 and 900 C.E.[A.D.]" From his inference that this was a "Moorish" culture, it certainly DOESN'T follow that these were Muslims -- what, pre-Columbian American Muslims who pre-date Islam itself, in 300 A.D.?!! No homage (Cultural Jizya) to deep-running
"Islamic Influence" in American culture from these quarters!

Posted by: John C at August 19, 2007 11:23 AM

Muslims in America before Columbus???

How would they have navigated to the New World? Muslims have no seafaring tradition... except piracy.

Maybe they hijacked a ship... ;)

Posted by: atheling at August 19, 2007 12:18 PM

"Columbus spoke and wrote in Latin"

In that case, he must have been a Roman. Official Vatican letters are written in Latin. The fact that that there are letters written in Latin proves nothing, particularly at a time when schollars wrote in Latin. His personal letters are in most cases written in Portuguese. He married a Portuguese noblewoman. He spent his late years in a Portuguese island (where his son wrote his memoires). His first stop after his first trip was in Lisbon.

If you want to believe that a poor wool merchant that had never set a foot in a ship until he was 21 learned how to captain a fleet (and most important, would be given a fleet to command by Castille), so be it. Like I said, we don't really care.

Even without Columbus (or "Colon", which was how he called himself), 2/3 of all the oceans were explored by Portuguese explorers. Let me guess, you probably believe that Cook was the first to reach Australia, even though the continent appears in XVI century Portuguese maps and even though wrecks of XVI Portuguese galleons were found in its shores?

Just read the damn site. It has enough evidence to clear any doubts. In fact, a Portuguese film and a BBC series will address the subject in the next few years.

Posted by: cruzado at August 19, 2007 1:03 PM

"How would they have navigated to the New World? Muslims have no seafaring tradition... except piracy."

Not true. Muslims were excellent sailors. Vasco da Gama used a Muslim pilot to reach India, and others did the same thing for decades. Give credit where credit is due.

Posted by: cruzado at August 19, 2007 1:06 PM

Muslims in America before Columbus???

How would they have navigated to the New World? Muslims have no seafaring tradition... except piracy.

Maybe they hijacked a ship... ;)

Yes, but wouldn't they have fallen off the edge of their flat earth?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at August 19, 2007 2:14 PM

Recent studies of the mitochondrial DNA of First Nations/Native Americans suggests that the people of the New World may have diverged genetically from Siberians as early as 20,000 years ago, far earlier than the standard theory would suggest.

According to one alternative theory, the Pacific coast of North America may have been free of ice such as to allow the first peoples in North America to come down this route prior to the formation of the ice-free corridor in the continental interior. No solid evidence has yet been found to support this hypothesis except that genetic analysis of coastal marine life indicate diverse fauna persisting in refugia throughout the Pleistocene ice ages along the coasts of Alaska and British Columbia; these refugia include common food sources of coastal aboriginal peoples, suggesting that a migration along the coastline was feasible at the time.

Source: American Scientist

Mitochondrial DNA and the Peopling of the New World
Genetic variations among Native Americans provide further clues to who first populated the Americas and when they arrived
Theodore G. Schurr

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/14727

I wonder if the Mohammadans will take a look at DNA evidence. Or will they rewrite history like they may have rewritten religion?

Posted by: Bosun at August 19, 2007 2:21 PM

Lief Erickson was in America before Columbus.., oh that is right the muslim was in the garden of Eden before mankind was fooled!

Posted by: MZ at August 19, 2007 2:54 PM

I was able to comment already, above. Wanted to let you know that Jihad Watch is a great site. keep up the good work.

Posted by: Bosun at August 19, 2007 3:45 PM

Bard Herjólfsson may have predated Leif by at least 10 years. Later, Leif bought Bard's boat and set sail to discover the new continent.

I seriously doubt the Mohammedans discovered the Americas. However, I am sure that some ACLU type will take up their cause and sue to have their story put in the History books.

I do not want to sound negative or derogatory, but, I sometimes think that Mohammedans suffer from identity crisis and and an inferiority complex.

They spend far to much dwelling in the past and trying to take credit for things already written.

American Scientist talks about DNA evidence of native Americas, and the article in Muslim Weekly talks about liberal arts theories.

Of course, we all know liberal arts theories can expound anything that sounds good, but, DNA profiling requires science.

Posted by: Bosun at August 19, 2007 3:59 PM

"I do not want to sound negative or derogatory, but, I sometimes think that Mohammedans suffer from identity crisis and and an inferiority complex."
-- from a posting above

"I do not want to sound negative or derogatory...." Why don't you? Go ahead. Give it a whirl. Doing so lowers the blood pressure. It puts a bounce in your step. It makes you sleep easier at night. No soul-wrenching need to hold back. Find out and then tell the truth about such things, first to yourself, and then to other people. It's fine. It's necessary.

Posted by: Hugh at August 19, 2007 4:49 PM

Latest Message to United States citizen jihad watchers:

We are around the middle of the sixth day of posting this request at Jihad Watch, and we are up to 37 volunteers. Florida has now pulled even with California at 5 volunteers each.

I'm looking for at least two people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase a copy of Robert Spencer's Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't and mail it to one of the senators in your state. I'm organizing an effort to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message.
If we get more than two people per state, we’ll also send copies to the House of Representatives.

If you’d like to be involved, please write to me at traehnam@yahoo.com under the subject heading “Senate,” and tell me the state your senator represents, an email address where I can reach you, and a nickname. No need for your real name. And I will never share your email address with anyone, not even with other volunteers for this project.

And visit www.jihadawareness.blogspot.com to get more info on this project and to leave comments other volunteers can read. You can also see there the growing list of participants in this project, and the states their senators represent. I’ll try to update the list at least once a day. I've also designed a new graphic that might amuse. Scroll down when you get to the site.

Once we have at least two people from every state, we can agree on a mailing date and then each of us can mail a copy of the book on that date.

Right before we do the mailing, we can issue a press release to various media outlets in every state, and in that way announce and explain the mailing. And perhaps we can come up with some other ways of maximizing the effectiveness of this project and gaining as much positive attention as possible.

One of the project's volunteers suggested contacting Rep. Sue Myrick, who started the anti-Jihad caucus in Congress. I'll try to coordinate this project with Rep. Myrick to maximize its effectiveness. I've also been calling various congressional offices to get advice on how best to go about this. And I'll soon contact Regnery, Robert Spencer's publisher, to ask their advice and to see if we can coordinate with them in some way.

Posted by: traeh at August 19, 2007 5:57 PM

YEAH, right. And they don't screw camels either.
I'm beginning to think ALL Muslims are crazy bastards. None of them have been proving me wrong.

Posted by: Hebrew Handyman at August 19, 2007 6:13 PM

THE PINNACLE OF MUSLIM [AHEM] SCHOLARSHIP

The phrase "Muslim scholar" is an oxymoron. This reminds me of the PBS video I regretfully purchased called "Islam--Empire of Faith". PBS quotes scholar after scholar extolling the eternal greatness of Islam and bashing Christianity while making stuff up. They actually claim that the Muslims INVENTED THE AQUEDCUCTS and also INVENTED THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD!!!!!!

There probably is not a single Muslim scholar or PBS brownshirt who actually realizes that the Romans invented the aqueducts hundreds of years before Mohammed was regretably born. I mean, ask a little grade schooler in America and they'd be happy to explain it to you. And, of course, the scientific method originates from very ancient Greek philosphers. There might not even been a single Muslim on earth today not educated in the West who could accurately tell you what the scientific method actually is.

Muslim art is boring. Muslim architecture is a rip off. Muslim culture is ghastly and oppressive. Muslim scholarship is slobbering drivel of made up lies. They did perfect one thing however, and they do have a long proud tradition of it, it's called terrorism. In that endeavour nobody in the world can touch them.

Posted by: Tookson at August 19, 2007 6:58 PM

I would like to see this "archaeological and linguistic evidence for a pre-Columbian Muslim presence in North America" and then let a true Native American see it, and I am most sure they won't call it Islam.

I think it is about time to play Cowboys and Muslims.

Posted by: Sti at August 19, 2007 8:00 PM

"I wonder if the Mohammadans will take a look at DNA evidence...?

I wonder, too--would DNA evidence or expert witness, like modern medicine or forensics, have any weight or bearing in a Sharia court, to prosecute a rapist, say? And yet these people extoll the divinely-ordained superiority of their Sharia over our venerable civil law!

What an insufferable mentality they have!

Posted by: John C at August 19, 2007 8:06 PM

"The German art historian, Alexander Von Wuthenau, also provides evidence that Muslims were in America, in the time between 300 and 900 C.E. This "

This statement is an absurdity on its face. Since Islam was invented in the 7th century AD, it is highly unlikely that any Muslims were observed anywhere in the 3rd century.

Posted by: Jerry M at August 19, 2007 9:15 PM

Here are some very informative rebuttals on various of those silly claims about 'pre-columbian americas teeming with muslim life':

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=12226&highlight=#12226

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=12234&highlight=#12234

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=86947&highlight=#86947

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=13825&highlight=#13825

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=82554&highlight=#82554

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=82778&highlight=#82778

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=13483&highlight=#13483

enjoy :-D

Posted by: Tinero at August 19, 2007 10:57 PM

Eureka!

That's it, that explains it--carved Moorish heads, inscriptions like "Yasus bin Maria"--Berber and Punic Christians (descendants of ancient Mauretanians and of Semitic Carthaginians and Phoenicians) colonized the New World, circa 300 A.D.!!

Posted by: John C at August 19, 2007 11:25 PM

Now we know.

Posted by: John C at August 19, 2007 11:29 PM

Also, note the obvious Greek and Latin borrowings in the inscription Yasus [LGk & LL: Iesus] bin Maria [Latin, of course]. This clearly demonstrates these were latinized Punic people.

There, see, this conclusively proves my theory!!! (In a manic sort of way.)

Posted by: John C at August 20, 2007 12:15 AM

The Muslims invented the steam engine, telegraph, radio, the airplane, the lightbulb and television, didn't you hicks know that, as well as the first people to reach the north pole too!

Posted by: Dumbo at August 20, 2007 1:14 AM

This land will never be Islam! Muslim's here before Columbus....hmmm. Anyone read Columbus log? No mention of Muslim's at all in America...only Native's...which I come from. But when Columbus came to America..the Jews were with him which Spain kicked out at the same time.

So for anyone to say Muslim's were here before Columbus....give me concrete evidence. Never have seen any!

--------------------------------------------------
"The German art historian, Alexander Von Wuthenau, also provides evidence that Muslims were in America, in the time between 300 and 900 C.E. This "

This is such a big joke..part of the changing of our history!!!Was told years ago..the history of America is being changed by bimbo's who planned a change in future...it seems they were interested in putting Islam in America for a take over.
I save all the old book's...history books and I compare them to what we have today in our school's.

Watch Islamics/Muslim's...watch the Communist who have creeped into our country. Watch the Hispanics here claiming Texas is there's and California.

I got news for the whole damn world..this country belong to my people (Cherokee's) before any other man came here. I dislike the cult of Islam..it is the most evil religion I have ever known. And I get tired of watching them whine and ask for everything in America...when even the Native American's do not beg!
One more message to the world..and this nation and Muslims....the Cherokee's worshipped Yahweh (Jehovah)!!! This should state something about America before Columbus came! The Great White God...was not allah. He was Yahweh!

Islam will not have this nation...because they will tangle with the "white man", the "black man" and the "Native's".

Posted by: Cher at August 20, 2007 3:51 AM

I like to add this to the above:

The "Bat Creek Stone" was discovered by Smithsonian archaeologists in the 19th Century. Found under a skull in the Little Tennessee Valley, the inscription is a center of controversy. Many think it could be paleo-Hebrew indicating a Jewish presence in America 2,000 years ago. (No Muslim's?)

Posted by: Cher at August 20, 2007 4:40 AM

Cher - good to see you here speaking for the Cherokee. I hope you're spreading the alarm about Islam, along the Native American networks. Given the number of Native Americans in the US armed forces, there must be others who have begun to get a really bad feeling about Islam and what it does to people and societies.

Islam has - always and everywhere - been BAD NEWS for indigenous peoples - eg the Berbers of North Africa, the Orang Asli of Malaysia, the tribes of Borneo, the Melanesian tribespeople of Papua, the Nuba Mountain people of Sudan who have been virtually annihilated, and so on ad nauseam.

As our friend Frank here points out here repeatedly, Islam is one of the nastiest Empire Rationalisation schemes going. Hugh Fitzgerald has also lucidly explained that it appears to function as Arab supremacism - i.e it does for Arabs what Nazism did for Aryans (hence the 'Arab' northern Sudanese Muslims murdering 'black' Muslims in Darfur, because black Muslims are not 'Arab', they're an inferior variety of Muslim).

The 'christian' imperial/ colonial societies - English-speaking, Spanish-speaking, etc - are, from the POV of the Native peoples they've encountered, educable. Because of the Bible and the Golden Rule, we can be called to account. We'll even say sorry and acknowledge where we've gone wrong - because violent imperial conquest is something Jesus neither did, nor taught, nor approved. He told his followers 'teach' - NOT 'conquer and dispossess'.

But the Muslim invaders, slavers and occupiers who bulldozed their way across other people's countries all the way from North Africa to the East Indies, were OBEYING their sacred text to the letter. They were piously following Mohammed's 'perfect' example and doing exactly as he told them to do. They are never going to apologise, or repent, because they think they have nothing to repent of.

Great fighting words from you for America: 'Islam will not have this nation...because they will tangle with the "white man", the "black man" and the "Natives"'.

I only hope that in New Zealand the Maori, in Australia the Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders, and in Canada the Natives and Quebecois, can achieve your clarity of vision, and not get sucked in by Muslim daawa and its fake promise of 'brotherhood', or Muslims pretending to be victims when they represent one of the most destructive imperial ideologies on earth.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 20, 2007 6:37 AM

Zoubeir is typical of the sham-scholars in his highly selective use of sources, citing only those that support his case, and ignoring all the ones that do not. Indeed he even ignores much of the sources he does cite. Fell, Van Sertima, and others may say that Moslems reached America in the 9th c. AD, but they also say that many others also reached America before the Moslems. Among these were: the Welsh in the 6th c. AD, the Irish in the 4th c. AD, the Romans in the 1st c. AD, the Phoenicians in the 5th c. BC, and the Egyptians in the 12th c. BC or so.
Strangely, he leaves out the greatest sham-scholar of them all -- Erich von Daniken -- who "proves" that all the early human civilizations, and all their science and skills and learning, were created by space aliens. Perhaps the Moslems preserve a memory of the space aliens in their worship of the moon-god, and their reverence for the meteorite enshrined in the Kaaba. Certainly some Black Muslims come closer to this truth in their belief in the great "mother ship" waiting in orbit to carry true believers to paradise.

Posted by: ebonystone at August 20, 2007 11:47 AM

The Christian abbot of the Irish Clonfert Abbey, St. Brendan, seems to have come to America ca. A.D. 500. There are Celtic ogham runic inscriptions carved into stone in West Virginia speaking of Christian festival, virgin Mary, etc. Thus America cannot be considered as Islamic, for the Christians were here first.

Posted by: olorin at August 21, 2007 1:22 AM