I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often, actually.

Posted by: Bingo at August 29, 2007 7:55 PM

Most Americans speak English, so why are "Iraqi AMERICANS" speaking in Arabic -- are they trying to raise suspicion? Hearing them speak in Arabic would have made me uncomfortable too.

Posted by: champ at August 29, 2007 7:59 PM

I live in SD and saw the story on the local news this morning. The broadcaster here said that these guys were in San Diego to teach our military Iraqi customs. So, supposedly they were working for the military.

Posted by: beecher137 at August 29, 2007 8:12 PM

Every effort should be made to accomodate and to support this 'passenger with child' who elected to get off the plane. This PC thing has gone too far, we have rights too.

On Sept. 11-2002, one year after the Islamic terror attack on the WTC, I was supposed to fly from LA to Frankfurt.

I 'elected' not to fly, because there was a group of 4 young Koran-flashing, beardy Arabs in the age group between 20 and 30, plus a sinister looking Imam in his fifties, about to board.

I took it upon myself to spend another night in LA, a great inconvenience at my expense, and I rearranged my ticket to fly the next day.

I would do the same today if I saw myself in a similar situation.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 29, 2007 8:19 PM

I see it this way: this administration and the xenophobic bandwagon - such as Mr. Spencer and his cohorts, through their incessant hostility towards Muslims and Arabs, have been successful in making Americans scared, and in some cases hateful and vindictive. We are only seeing the “strange fruits” that are coming out of the tree of hatred that Mr. Spencer and others have sown. Bravo, Mr. Spencer!

Posted by: ataa at August 29, 2007 8:21 PM

ANY person of middle eastern decent has to be aware, ESPECIALLY on an airlplane, that travelling in groups and speaking Arabic is going to set off alarm bells. If they don't like that, tough, ride a bicycle.

Posted by: billyoblog at August 29, 2007 8:26 PM

Troll alert! Ataa alert!

Islamo-logic on display above:

When are you going to fly a jet into a building, Spencer?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 29, 2007 8:29 PM

I think the term "FEAR" is over used,I think the general public in America is not "AFRAID" of Muslims.
The general public and MOST of the thinking worlds populations are cautious, and alert to those elements of society that have been known to cause death and destruction...
Islamic believers have brought this on themselves, by not correcting the fanatical element within it's ranks.

I am not afraid of much, and Muslims don't even register a blip on my fear scale, I do not fear man, any man.
I watch, I am vigilant and I am cautious...

Americans aren't scared of Muslims, or the fanatical extremists that Islam breeds.
We can't take it upon our selves to investigate or handle the threat we might perceive on our own because of our laws, so we bring it to the authorities. When another attack happens on our soil that procedure will change.
Then Islamic fanatics will know fear.

Posted by: Robert at August 29, 2007 8:29 PM

incessant hostility?

Stop the acts of brutality. Disavow terror. Join civilization as willing partners. Act like grownups.

Or else the moslem world will REALLY see incessant hostility. The civilized world has about had its fill of islam.

Posted by: infidel! at August 29, 2007 8:32 PM

This attitude about moslems didn't come out of the blue. We read stories about how they hate us daily. Go to Memri and watch the videos. We didn't start this airport scare dealeo.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 29, 2007 8:34 PM

ataa,

Interesting name. Spelled slightlt different it would remind me of someone else.

I'm sorry but I must have missed the part where Robert planted this tree of hatred you refer to. Silly me was under the impression that is what muslims had firmly planted when they evicerated 3000 innocent Americans.

Posted by: billyoblog at August 29, 2007 8:36 PM

"tree of hatred that Mr. Spencer and others have sown"

You are in extreme denial, ataa. The "tree of hatred" is Islam, and Robert Spencer & others are merely telling the truth about the evil behind this "religion of peace".

I for one am thankful for Robert's work, because I was once in complete denial too; and I would rather know the truth then stay stuck in La-La-Land, because that's a very dangerous place to live.

Being informed is your responsibility. Not only for your own safefy, but for the safety and protection of others and for our nation as well.

Posted by: champ at August 29, 2007 8:45 PM

Why aren't airplanes haram anyway? Women without bags sitting near moslems ...the flight attendants are mostly women and they might touch a moslem. Haram movies....maybe even a *gasp* woman pilot!
And it is after all, an invention of the "infidel" mind.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at August 29, 2007 8:46 PM

Civil disobedience. One shouldn’t have to ride on an airplane with men who pray five times a day to a God that calls for his death. If enough people did this, applicable Islamic teachings in hand, the system would break down and we could address the problem (which has nothing to do with Robert Spencer).

Posted by: pez at August 29, 2007 8:47 PM

ataa: Mr. Spencer and the Bush Administration are not the problem. You and your kind are. Robert Spencer and like-minded individuals merely convey what Muslims and their Islamic schools of theology over the centuries have said about their ultimate design------making the entire Earth Islamic; replacing all constitutional and legal systems with sharia. After all, the Koran calls upon Muslims to subjugate the world, by force if necessary. One knows this or should know it; there is no third alternative. These are not Mr. Spencer's words you excoriate, my words, or the words of millions (and they are growing by the tens of millions every year, those who properly understand what Islam is really all about). They are the words of Muslims. And you are part of the problem, either through ignorance or conscious deception. Shame on you.

Posted by: Wellington at August 29, 2007 8:55 PM

This is my first ever post - I hate to swim up stream as I usually agree with most folks on this site. But come on - just because they were speaking Arabic. I have to admit, if I was on that plane - I would be pretty ticked off that my flight got canceled (or delayed until the next morning).

Posted by: ICareDoYou at August 29, 2007 8:55 PM

You can bet your bottom dollar that if I think there is a problem of this nature on a plane I'm riding, I WILL SAY SOMETHING...

It's a post-911 world and people better deal with it.

ataa: you're a gutless troll. bite me. No, better yet, get on my plane and start your drivel up with me....

Posted by: kozanne at August 29, 2007 9:17 PM

ICAREDOYOU...These men know that to call attention to themselves by speaking Arabic, will make some passangers nervous. They know it is likely to cause a commotion. They have heard , or should have heard of the Six Imams who created similar concerns.
It's possible these guys were from the boonies of the Congo, but they were not. They are American and most certainly speak English. So why the Arabic?...Is there something there you can trust?

Posted by: duh_swami at August 29, 2007 9:20 PM

ICareDoYou: This is pretty much a "take no prisoners" website by those who have at least a basic understanding of Islam. Compassion is not absent here, but there are limits. So, here's a question for you: If someone you loved----your mother, a spouse, your son or daughter, a sibling, a grandfather, etc.----were getting on a plane, and you heard some other passengers, three or four bearded men, for instance, speaking Arabic, would you be indifferent to said scenario? I think I rest my case here, but please prove me wrong if you are so inclined.

Posted by: Wellington at August 29, 2007 9:22 PM

ICareDoYou:

I bet if the plane were blown up you'd be ticked off even more.

You are on the wrong site. Scroll up to the top of the screen and click on 'Dhimmi Watch.'

We'll be looking for you there.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 29, 2007 9:23 PM

ICareDoYou,

You just validated Robert's post. This IS the world we live in. Sad, but true. If you were in a similar situation, on that plane, would you toe the PC line and ignore what you were hearing, or would you possibly mention it to someone?

This is a life and death struggle against those who willfully choose not to recognize Islam for what it is. PC, and CAIR, tells you to mind your own business and to not engage in thoughts that might be deemed as religious bigotry.

I ask you, if it were yourself and/or your family, on that plane, witnessing firsthand the events, what would you do personally?

Posted by: awake at August 29, 2007 9:24 PM

ICAREDOYOU...welcome to posting at JW/DW. Don't let the responses throw you, we are all on the same page...except ataa. He is a drop a bomb and run troll.

Posted by: duh_swami at August 29, 2007 9:26 PM

We don't really know exactly what happened--seems like the facts are still sketchy at best. I'll wait a bit before making an opinion here.

Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 29, 2007 9:27 PM

ataa-dhimmi,

You stated, "Bravo, Mr. Spencer!" At least we agree on one thing.

Posted by: champ at August 29, 2007 9:32 PM

Interest:

"Why aren't airplanes haram anyway?"

Because some idiot Immam back in the early part of the 20th Century (about 1905-1910, to venture a guess) read a story in his copy of "Morning Rage" newspaper about a new invention called the 'aeroplane'.

Then he got thinking..Hmmm, why didn't we think of that?

So he got to digging in all the unholy writings and musings of Mo, and Lo and Behold! He found it! The proof that the Muslims invented aviation!

Us stupid Kaffirs (sorry for that term - forgive me) didn't get the memo.
-------------------------------------------------
Just like everything else in this world, neat and modern an technical, THEY invented it first.

To the point here, I am a pilot. I don't know the details of what happened on the aircraft after it pushed back, but believe me, folks, it had to have been pretty ugly. American pilots will NOT put up with this kind of sh*t. Any potential conflict on an aircraft while it is still on the ground - WILL REMAIN ON THE GROUND!

There, to give all you good folks a professional perspective of why the flight was cancelled.

Posted by: boneshack at August 29, 2007 9:43 PM

If the travelling public had confidence in the screening process and security procedures, things like this wouldn't happen.

But the public confidence isn't there, and for many good reasons: The screening process doesn't inspire confidence, both with respect to the things that slip through (and ongoing security probes such as the recent cheese/wires oddities), and the reluctance to profile based on who has attacked us, and who is likely to attack us.

And the screeners don't inspire confidence. The higher ups seem more concerned with public relations than actual safety, and the rank-and-file employees 1.) often appear to be foreign nationals (raising questions of loyalties, as well as of cultural barriers to a functioning team), and/or 2.) just going through the motions rather than displaying any particular vigilance.

If the public cannot trust the screening process or the screeners, passengers will feel they are on their own, and suspicions feed off of and amplify one another.

Posted by: MarisolJW at August 29, 2007 9:47 PM

Sorry about the crabby post.

I'm sure the passengers on 9/11 thought it was a highjacking and had no idea what was in store until it was too late. God bless those "Let's Roll" Americans. I'd go down fighting, too.

Stunts like the flying imans are just provocative, but you never can be sure.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 29, 2007 9:51 PM

Durka, Durka!
YOU LOSE, Acccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmed!
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:yvGe9wFZ_mkJ:www.us-english.org/inc/official/states.asp+california+%22english+is+the+official+language%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
(save this link for "other reasons, too"
Furthermore, Lindbergh Field is privately owned, not an outright federal installation...even with that said, you'd have to be ON or IN the building to shield yourself behind Federal statutes...
...but they were ON/IN the plane, thus private property of the airline, and as long as that aircraft is NOT airborne, even by an inch, California Official Constitutional statute applies!
AND I QUOTE: California State Constitution,
article 3, section 6 reads:

§ 6. Offical state language
Sec. 6. (a) Purpose.
English is the common language of the people of the United States of America and the State of California. This section is intended to preserve, protect and strengthen the English language, and not to supersede any of the rights guaranteed to the people by this Constitution.
(b) English as the Official Language of California.
English is the official language of the State of California.
(c) Enforcement.
The Legislature shall enforce this section by appropriate legislation. The Legislature and officials of the State of California shall take all steps necessary to insure that the role of English as the common language of the State of California is preserved and enhanced. The Legislature shall make no law which diminishes or ignores the role of English as the common language of the State of California.
(d) Personal right of Action and Jurisdiction of Courts.
Any person who is a resident of or doing business in the State of California shall have standing to sue the State of California to enforce this section, and the Courts of record of the State of California shall have jurisdiction to hear cases brought to enforce this section. The Legislature may provide reasonable and appropriate limitations on the time and manner of suits brought under this section.

As I said,
Durka Durka...YOU LOSE!
LOL

I love it when a plan comes together!
(sorces furnished by a friend, who's also an attorney licensed to practice before the US Supreme Court, so it's as good as in the bank)
SLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAMMMM DUNK!!!
CHA-CHINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!

Posted by: jcom972 at August 29, 2007 9:58 PM

Better to be late than too late.

Better to be mistaken than taken.

After 3,000 were slaughtered, such concern is only rational when people speaking Arabic (who can speak English, obviously) arouse suspicion.

If you're worried, then get off the flight and be inconvenienced rather than risk being interred.

Mr. Spencer should open an online nursery and start selling his Patented "Trees of Hate".

Glenn Beck needs a whole grove for his sardonic imaginary college called "Hate U.".

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 29, 2007 9:58 PM

The broadcaster here said that these guys were in San Diego to teach our military Iraqi customs. So, supposedly they were working for the military.
Posted by: beecher137

I can't resist: they were in San Diego to teach our military jihad?

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 29, 2007 9:59 PM

I wouldn't give a rat's ass if they were teaching basket weaving...speak english or GTFO.

Posted by: jcom972 at August 29, 2007 10:02 PM

Marisol :

'the screeners don't inspire confidence'- spot on!

I don't know how bad it is in the US, but I can tell you for a fact that Eurabian Airports are TOTALLY infiltrated by Muhammedans, from the cleaners to the screeners, from the baggage handlers to the Taxi-drivers (are there any other ones?) The taxi drivers are just annoying and can be avoided. But the other jobs are well paid and it is incomprehensible that no natives can be found for those jobs.

It is absurd!

Even here in Australia where I live there is a Muhammedan second in line of command for the overall security of the airport.

Insane! Mad!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 29, 2007 10:04 PM

I agree with Marisol.

Here in Toronto, most of the conversations around me in public are not English. It is common for people to prefer speaking in their first language.

However, I have decided that, if my instinct ever tells me something is not right, I will do my best to do something or get away. I have given myself permission to listen to my gut. If that means I get off the subway because a crazy person is making me nervous, I get off and catch the next train.

In the station yesterday, at ground level, I saw two large unattended backpacks on a seat. I passed them, looking around to see who they belonged to. There were people around, so I didn't do anything.

I went upstairs, checked the bus schedule, then went back down to buy a cold drink. The bags were still there, so I asked the two TTC employees who were nearby, "Whose bags are those?" They said, "Oh, those are ours."

In the past, I would have wondered if they were lost. Yesterday, I wondered if they were bombs.

Maybe that "traveler with a child" has made the same decision. Maybe his or her gut said to get off the plane. Maybe it was founded in well-placed fear of these specific Arabic speaking men; maybe not.

As Marisol said, we can't exactly feel total confidence in the airport screening process, so what are we to do? As a parent, I'd get off a hundred planes if I thought for a second my child might be in danger. Better safe than sorry.

This incident also suggests that people are realizing that Islam is not a religion of peace and the tiny minority of people willing to become terrorists is not so tiny after all (10 percent of 2 billion is still 2 million, etc.)

Sometimes it's hard to second-guess our instinct; sometimes it's best not to.

Posted by: Josephine at August 29, 2007 10:12 PM

It IS a shame you can't look different, act different, or talk different without the other normal passengers thinking you're going to blow the damn plane up!! BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE FRAKKING ISLAMO-NAZI COUSINS HIJACK AIRLINERS AND KILL 3000 INNOCENT PEOPLE!!!!!!
English is the language of this country. If you want to come here you either speak it, or shut up so we don't know that you can't.

Personally, I'd have opened the emergency exit and thrown the 6 SOB's off onto the tarmac head first. Better safe than sorry.

Posted by: livefreeordie! at August 29, 2007 10:19 PM

Josephine sez:

(10 percent of 2 billion is still 2 million, etc.)

hahahahahaha!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 29, 2007 10:20 PM

sheik yer'mami: Thanks for your post. It helps to confirm that the real problem is idiocy from within and not the terror from without (which could be handled efficiently if the former problem didn't exist). We have the same kind of nonsense here in the States. Britain replicates this and so do numerous continental European nations (Canada too). Holy hell, what will it take? Melbourne gone? New York gone? London or Paris eviscerrated? The self-destruction continues, courtesy of multiculturalism, political correctness, pacifism, self-loathing......... Ah, I need a beer.

Posted by: Wellington at August 29, 2007 10:21 PM

Save money. Instead of Air Marshalls why don't airlines put Air Mascots on planes?

A cute little pig would do wonders for the flying public. No security screeners needed. No more delays, except for, ahem, weather related problems. Not much added weight either.

The piggie could be a mascot, walking the aisles. What muslim would blow himself up around something as cute as that? No virgins if he did.

Flying Pig Airlines.

Well, we would have to come up with a better name but you get the idea.

Posted by: Borg at August 29, 2007 10:25 PM

To be safe, when on an Infidel airline Middle Easterners should stick to "Aramaic Aramaic" or, if flying in and out of Italy, "marameo marameo."

Posted by: Hugh at August 29, 2007 10:29 PM

Or would they open the door in midflight and throw it off?

Posted by: Borg at August 29, 2007 10:37 PM

Solution:

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/air-infidel.jpg

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 29, 2007 10:38 PM

I wonder if we will ever learn the subtle particulars of this incident. Were the passengers worked up over nothing or had they tuned into something that was just not right?

Language alone has been over-emphasized here. For one thing these men could be Christian Arab speakers. I would be much more concerned with behavior and demeanor, nervous movement or belligerence. These are the things that should set people's danger sensors off, not just language. Dress is also important. If they were speaking Arabic in friendly, casual tones at normal volume, why should any reasonable person be terror-struck?

Don't get me wrong. I think anything we can do as a nation and as individuals to make Muslims feel uncomfortabe and unwelcome in our country is a good thing at this point. Separationism is the only alternative to much darker choices. But we should not need to lose our heads over exposure to people speaking in a foreign tongue-- any attempted 9/11 repeat could involve attackers fluent in Spanish, Russian or Hindi. Or English.

Posted by: lycaste at August 29, 2007 10:42 PM

sheikyermami - that's another cartoom muslims will protest.

It's great.

Posted by: Borg at August 29, 2007 10:43 PM

pimf - cartoon

Take a small voice recorder with you and record the conversation, discreetly.

Then there will be a record of what was being said if there is a dispute like this that ends up in court.

Posted by: Borg at August 29, 2007 10:48 PM

Sheik is right. They are everywhere, in all the wrong jobs:airports and also the tax department.

Unfortunately they have all the moronic leftoids helping them, including some churches here.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22333103-661,00.html

and this:

Check out "Jesus Bin Laden" (puke time!)

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/eating_ourselves_alive/

Posted by: Gramfan at August 29, 2007 10:53 PM

"Or would they open the door in midflight and throw it off?"

Posted by: Borg [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 29, 2007 10:37 PM
----------------------------------------------
Sorry, dude, that only works with C-17s and C-130s. You see, when while transporting a Jihadi from Gitmo to the ME, and while over the Atlantic Ocean, he/she has a "SES" (Sudden Explosion Seizure). The aft loading ramp is opened, and Jihadi "jumps" out of the Infidel military aircraft.

Problem solved. Won't be fighting this Achmed again in Afghanistan/Pakistan/Iraq/Syria/Iran/Eqypt...

Have a great Jihad-free flight in the United States.

Posted by: boneshack at August 29, 2007 10:54 PM

lycaste wrote:

"Language alone has been over-emphasized here. For one thing these men could be Christian Arab speakers."

Really? With the exception of Robert, I didn't think there were many of them left around.

Posted by: awake at August 29, 2007 10:57 PM

Ataa,

Go back to you master, Fibraham Ibe at CAIR BABIES INC. (AKA Taqqiya-R-Us). Your annoying indignation over the non-PC behavior of one passenger is so pathetic when compared to the lives lost so far to you Jihadist in your Global bid for Conquest, Sharia, Dhimmitude and Jizya. You should thank your stars no interment camps have been created so far. After all, it would be cheaper to pay for those and the post war reparations then dealing with one nuclear crater where a city once was. You should thank the well-educated bloggers on sites like this one for allowing the airing of and discussion of reasonable ideas to deal with you Jihadist, so that we can remain a True Civilization.

ICAREDOYOU… Welcome to Jihad Watch, I also recommend checking out its sister site Dhimmi Watch. It’s very revealing as to the length our supposed leaders have gone to accommodate the Mohammedan. Let me just say Pres. Bush coined the phrase “Religion of Peace” tm and the cynical laughter that follows it.

Also to my fellow posters, Remember CAIR is sending Trolls like Ataa to elicit hyperbolic responses or just plain post them on their own, so they can be used against Mr. Spencer and Mr. Fitzgerald.

Posted by: senor doeboy at August 29, 2007 11:02 PM

This is my first ever post - I hate to swim up stream as I usually agree with most folks on this site. But come on - just because they were speaking Arabic. I have to admit, if I was on that plane - I would be pretty ticked off that my flight got canceled (or delayed until the next morning).

Posted by: ICareDoYou

***

Well, if I'd been a passenger, I might have been willing to give a pass to a family (dad, mom, 2.3 kids, elderly grandma) traveling with a stroller, 2 mouse ears hat souvenirs, and a dog eared "Cat in the Hat" -- even if they were speaking Arabic.

But if the article is to be believed, this situation involved only men, 6-7 of them, traveling together, speaking Arabic. Call me an islamophobe, but that's just too many red flags for my comfort. Sure, they could be innocent as newborn babes. But if they are, they are also as naive as infants to not realize that they would attract suspicion given the current world situation.

I'm also left with a couple of questions. For one thing, how did the passenger(s) know the men were speaking Arabic? Me, I could say they "look Middle Eastern," but disguishing spoken Arabic from amongst the host of other languages used in the Middle East (Farsi, Urdu, Turkish, etc.) isn't a skill I've ever developed. Well, except for a few Arabic words that have entered the general lexicon, such as jihad, allah akbar, and the like. And for another thing, if they were here on military business, who in our government thought it would be a good idea to put a group of Middle Eastern men together on a commercial flight? Are there no military flights traveling between San Diego and Iraq???

Posted by: CJ at August 29, 2007 11:11 PM

People tend to speak in their native tongues when they are with other people from their homelands. There is nothing wrong or scary about this.

This incident does show that a lot of people are scared about flying. While 9/11 is part of the reason people are scared, and yes it is good to be watchful and alert for any form of terrorism, it is also true that those in power in the United States, and those who stand to profit by it, including the media and Robert Spencer himself, have done their best to keep the people afraid. A British politician when asked how the American politicians(the left, the right, the center) get away with everything they have got away with, he replied saying "by keeping the people in fear and debt".
You need only read the various media stories and indeed this site itself to know the amount of truth in that statement.

Posted by: cerebate at August 29, 2007 11:12 PM

Wellington, like most in this hate group, you are also blinded by hatred! It's not just the Muslims that have done some terrible things throughout the history. Read some history and you'll see that Christians have destroyed continents full of aboriginal people (North America, Australia, parts of South America, Africa...), killed millions in countless wars, given the world all types of killing machines, and even nuked other humans.

All haters are alike, be it Bin Laden, or Mr. Spencer, or those of you who are blinded by vengeance and xenophobia. Haters do not see their own faults.

Posted by: ataa at August 29, 2007 11:14 PM

ataa troll, go s*# elwhere!

That's being polite.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 29, 2007 11:20 PM

Ataa (the ghost Mohammed Atta?) said:

"killed millions in countless wars, given the world all types of killing machines, and even nuked other humans."

I don't even know where to begin here with this troll.

Jeez, where's my bottle of Tylenol?

Posted by: boneshack at August 29, 2007 11:28 PM

lycaste said:

"I think anything we can do as a nation and as individuals to make Muslims feel uncomfortabe and unwelcome in our country is a good thing at this point."

Read your own post and then go look at a mirror. You will see a hater there.

All haters are alike, does not matter what religion they claim they belong to. Their religion is 'hate.'

Posted by: ataa at August 29, 2007 11:28 PM

ataa the CAIR troll spews the same moral equivalence, cultural relative, nonsensical garbage trying to equate Christianity with Islamic jihad...what a surprise. I think Mr. Spencer just wrote a book on this subject. You should check it out and tell me where he spews any hatred. Then you should read the Quran and other Islamic holy texts and read the actual hate and mandate for violence against kuffar there.
God Bless you Robert Spencer and JihadWatch

Posted by: TheBigH at August 29, 2007 11:31 PM

Do you deny that Christians have killed millions? Eradicated natives from thier lands? Enslaved other humans?

So, it's not moral equivalence, it's just fact. It's sad, but humans have done this for long. And you haters are nothing but that, just haters.

Posted by: ataa at August 29, 2007 11:36 PM

To be safe, when on an Infidel airline Middle Easterners should stick to "Aramaic Aramaic" or, if flying in and out of Italy, "marameo marameo."

Posted by: Hugh at August 29, 2007 10:29 PM

Ah, such a lottery is life and people are free to tease others in our free societies - thank God (or the Fates)! And so, fare marameo, are you, perhaps (in spirit if not in fact), a descendant of the Marquise de Merteuil, or maybe the Vicomte de Valmont?

Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 29, 2007 11:36 PM

Our paranoia is a result of THEIR ACTIONS. How are we supposed to know which Muslims "appear" moderate or real Jihadists? All its going to take is one time when those suspicious characters are terrorists and thousands could die [or even worse if the plane makes to a Nuclear power plant].

I would rather see the USA a paranoid nation than politically correct soft target.

Posted by: SoteriA at August 29, 2007 11:37 PM

Ataa said: It's not just the Muslims that have done some terrible things throughout the history...

Ataa, Mr. Spencer's latest book will explain your tu quoque you, in arguments so simple even you could understand.

Posted by: Shakey_Premise at August 29, 2007 11:44 PM

SoteriA
You are already seeing the USA as a paranoid nation and guess what its still a politically correct soft target.
For this particular incident you should be wondering what it would take to make your airlines more secure and appear more secure since that is the rational , logical solution.

This incident also illustrates that American's probably think that someone who wanted to carry out an attack will hang out with other 6-7 people who look like him and talk loudly in arabic. He will probably be dressed like an afghan fighter and wwear a turban, have an AK - 47 slung over his shoulder and carry a Koran and perform namaz before boarding the plane.
Ridiculous.

Posted by: cerebate at August 29, 2007 11:49 PM

ataa said: Read your own post and then go look at a mirror. You will see a hater there.

All haters are alike, does not matter what religion they claim they belong to. Their religion is 'hate.'

ataa:

I supose you have contacted the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Sudan, Malasia, UAE, et al. to chastise them for being unwelcoming to people of non-majority religions?

Better yet, why don't you visit those places and then protest those governments so filled with hate? I don't suppose we would ever hear from you again would we?

In the West, we allow idiots like you to say what you want. Funny how Islamic states fail to do the same.

Who is filled with hate?

The person who has been mugged repeatedly and decides to carry a gun, or the repeat mugger?

If you want to see real hate, go to Mecca and criticize Islam---lets see if you are truly stupid or merely wrong headed.

Posted by: JSobieski at August 29, 2007 11:50 PM

ataa said: Read your own post and then go look at a mirror. You will see a hater there.

All haters are alike, does not matter what religion they claim they belong to. Their religion is 'hate.'

ataa:

I supose you have contacted the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Sudan, Malasia, UAE, et al. to chastise them for being unwelcoming to people of non-majority religions?

Better yet, why don't you visit those places and then protest those governments so filled with hate? I don't suppose we would ever hear from you again would we?

In the West, we allow idiots like you to say what you want. Funny how Islamic states fail to do the same.

Who is filled with hate?

The person who has been mugged repeatedly and decides to carry a gun, or the repeat mugger?

If you want to see real hate, go to Mecca and criticize Islam---lets see if you are truly stupid or merely wrong headed.

Posted by: JSobieski at August 29, 2007 11:50 PM

@aata
Here is the definition of Troll
a newsgroup (this forum) post that is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke readers; or a person who makes such a post

If you want to discuss the issue you don't post post's like you have done. You are not convincing anyone reading these post you are right, in fact you are probably doing just the opposite. As other posters have pointed out you are the one spouting HATE. Most everything here shows the truth about Islam. Prove by logic, facts or any other means of debate that your point of view is correct. Calling all of us hates is not a debate but a disturbance.

If what I said is not sinking in I guess the next thing from you is threats for our lives or safety. Please notice I have not shown any hate toward you or what you have said, and I am not threading you.

Prov 15:1
A soft answer turns away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

مقاطعة 15:1
ميسر الاجابه يبتعد غضب : ولكن الكلمات المءلمه إثارة الغضب

Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at August 29, 2007 11:51 PM

ataa said: Read your own post and then go look at a mirror. You will see a hater there.

All haters are alike, does not matter what religion they claim they belong to. Their religion is 'hate.'

ataa:

I supose you have contacted the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Sudan, Malasia, UAE, et al. to chastise them for being unwelcoming to people of non-majority religions?

Better yet, why don't you visit those places and then protest those governments so filled with hate? I don't suppose we would ever hear from you again would we?

In the West, we allow idiots like you to say what you want. Funny how Islamic states fail to do the same.

Who is filled with hate?

The person who has been mugged repeatedly and decides to carry a gun, or the repeat mugger?

If you want to see real hate, go to Mecca and criticize Islam---lets see if you are truly stupid or merely wrong headed.

Posted by: JSobieski at August 29, 2007 11:51 PM

Troll-boy Ataa:

Since you obviously can not defend Islam (and the actions of the "profit" Mo) and insist on attacking Christianity (and Judaism), let's see how well CAIR is paying you to defame JW/DW.

1. "killed millions in countless wars..."

Please name them, and, in 500 words or less, provide the underlying cause(s) of said wars. Citations will be checked!

2. "given the world all types of killing machines..." Let's do the the math..

The West: B-52s, F-16s, JDAMS, SLBMs, UAVs

Muslims: Camels, swords, and SEJs (Self-exploing Jihadis)

3. "and even nuked other humans."

Yup, did that. And we have no compunction about NOT doing it again, if necessary.

(You really, really need to read your history about this one. Please, for the sake of humanity, go to your local public library and study the real motives Truman decided to "nuke" Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You will be truly enlightened.)

How does this compare to the Chimp in power there in Iran? Not even close!

Sheik said it right: Go the &^*() somewhere else!

Posted by: boneshack at August 29, 2007 11:53 PM

JSobieski wrote:

"Who is filled with hate?"

"The person who has been mugged repeatedly and decides to carry a gun, or the repeat mugger?"

"If you want to see real hate, go to Mecca and criticize Islam---lets see if you are truly stupid or merely wrong headed."

Well put. the recidivism rate of Islamists, based off of the mandates in that god-awful text, the Qur'an, is quite possibly the worst kept secret in the world, with particular relevance to our "staunch friends and allies", Saudi Arabia.

'nuff said.

Posted by: awake at August 30, 2007 12:01 AM

ataatroll. Hate, racism and bigotry are the big guns of Islamic lunartics. Those word magick tactics no longer work. You are going to have to do more than just accuse. First off you don't know the meaning of the words 'hate', or bigotry. Dictionary deffinition:Hate.

to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

So it is not 'Hate' as you infer it. What you are talking about is 'irrational hate', that does not occur here, except when muslim trolls show up and exhibit their own irrational hate.

Bigotry:
stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Islam is the guilty party in bigotry. You accept no other creed other than your own, and Islam will murder to maintain it...Bigots.

I can't speak for others, but I detest Islam. I hate Islam with a passion and don't care who knows it. I hate the way Islam destroys lives. I hate Islam for the fraud it is. I hate Islam for it's hegemoney. I hate Islam because it manufactures murderers out of it's 'holy(?) books, and the mouths of it's phony Imams. I hate Islam for it's supremist attitude, it's unearned self righteousness, it's threatening bluster and it's decrepid spokespeople, and it's out and out brutality. I hate Islam for it's false god Allah and the bogus Prophetless mohammad.
None of these 'hates' is irrational because they are based on truth and fact. I can't be a bigot, because I am not stuck on any creed, other than facts and truth. Just the facts as I have stated them. It is Islam, and the bulk of muslims, such as your self, who are the irrational hateing bigots...You fit the profile...Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Posted by: duh_swami at August 30, 2007 12:05 AM

Hugh -

So, as amply demonstrated by many of the posters here, the ladri have stolen from us not our bicycles but our very culture!

I trust that you follow me, here.

Ignorant and unknowing, uneducated and unaware of the richness, the fullness, of our culture they yet tread blindly to their doom - not knowing that which they defend but merely and inchoately knowing that we possess something worth defending.

How we have failed them!

Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 30, 2007 12:08 AM

ataaboy states, "Haters do not see their own faults".

Seems to describe you.

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 12:11 AM

Just after 9/11 family freinds of ours who are of Morroccan Jewish decent went to visit Israel. On their way back they made a stop over in France. At the airport the man was interogated and they found in his possession a book in hebrew written buy a 19 century jewish Iraki scolar. On the front cover was a sketch of the scholar. He had a beard and a turbin. The man was interrogated and strip searched. The poor guy did not know what hit him. Finally his wife overheard the security talking in French the only words she understood from the conversation were Osama bin Laden. It finally hit her what happened. After she finally stopped laughing she went to the security people and explained the situation. After some checking and verification the matter was settled. You would think that they would have been livid at the treatment. However, once the man got over the strip search he saw the humour in the situation. Did he cry out "racial profiling" or sue sue sue.
No. He was grateful that the security was so vigilant and he felt safer about flying. He also got a great story out of it.
Yes it is inconveniant, yes it is a pain in the --- and yes sometimes a flight will be delayed because of paranoia - but you know what - If I get to the other side in one piece because of it. So be it

Posted by: shez at August 30, 2007 12:19 AM

Hate is a strong word that should be used with prudence. I took the time to look it up and although the dictionary said nothing about an *irrational* character to hatred (just "strong or intense dislike"), that is how many people use the word, myself included. "I hate you" is irrational. "I hate all Muslims" is also irrational in my opinion.

But hate can develop from well-founded as well as irrational fears. It is a basic human property under certain circumstances and to pretend it does not, or should not, exist is infantile and accomlishes nothing. For many in the West, Islam represents a movement, a body of people, that is perilously close on the fine edge between being feared and being hated. In practical terms this distinction may not matter. On the other side, the amount of hatred wielded by a large number of Muslims, even if they are a small group by percentage, is in practice enough for the entire umma.

When you cite the so-called destruction of indigenous peoples of whole continents by Christians, do you stop to consider their motivations? Greedy and mercinary in some cases, but marked by hatred? Christianity seeks the salvation of all human souls; any hatred of "heathens" only detracts from this purpose. What do you have to show for the blood spilled in the name of Islam?

"Hatred" is what you feel when motivation has gone and all other mental expression fails you. It is not based on reason or insight or factual information. You may be mistaking a bit of exuberance here for what seems like hatred in your eyes. Most of us here are trying to understand Islam in some way and fear is indeed one of the justifications.

Posted by: lycaste at August 30, 2007 12:21 AM

Im.mad.as.HELL,

I am not threatening you or anyone else. I rather feel threatened by you all. I know that people in this group are able to do terrible things, just like some extremists in the Muslim camp are too.

The haters in this group started to call me a 'troll,' 'troll-boy,' etc. after I posted my opinion.

I have mentioned that people of all faiths have done terrible things. I did not blame any faith itself. But the participants of this group hate Islam from their guts, as one has openly mentioned here. These haters have their mind made up, no kind word or logic will work there. Kind words work for people of conscience, not for hate-filled folks.

The same way that there are some Muslims who do not see their own problems, there are others too who are oblivious of their own stink. This forum is the ultimate proof of that.

Posted by: ataa at August 30, 2007 12:44 AM

"ataaboy states"

I love that reference Champ. Here's hoping it sticks.

Posted by: awake at August 30, 2007 12:50 AM

ataaboy wrote:

"I know that people in this group are able to do terrible things, just like some extremists in the Muslim camp are too."

Number of beheadings performed by members of the JW community - Zero

Number of beheadings performed by members of the Camp of Islam - Too numerous to mention

ataaboy attempting to prove religious moral equivalence between Islam and all other faiths here at JW - PRICELESS

Posted by: awake at August 30, 2007 12:55 AM

ataa states, "I did not blame any faith itself".

No? Didn't you just make this statement:

"Do you deny that Christians have killed millions? Eradicated natives from thier lands? Enslaved other humans?"

Sounds like you're blaming the Christian faith to me.

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 12:58 AM

ataa: You are a deeply ignorant human being. Profoundly so. Whenever someone conveys to me that Christians in centuries past have used force or killed in the name of their religion and thus should be just as criticized as Muslims who have slaughtered in the name of their creed, I know I'm dealing with an Artful Dodger. Read the following and learn-------if you can.

First, I'm not a religious man as I've posted here before. I find all religions to be fairy tales and evidence of wishful thinking. But, as with so many of the Founding Fathers of this greatest nation on earth, who themselves privately were skeptics (though not all were), I think religion in public life serves a very useful purpose------------unless it is Islam. A minority of folks can properly direct their life through a philosophical approach, specifically that subdivision of philosophy usually termed ethics. Aristotelian ethics is a fine example here of how one can lead a good moral life without religion (and perhaps metaphysically, not theologically, put forward the hypothesis that a supreme entity exists). Most individuals, however, need morality backed up by some theologically based belief system. I do not write this cynically, only analytically. Whether the philosophical approach is taken or the religious, one or the other (or both) is needed for any society to function in a healthy fashion. The moral decline of modern Western society since the 1960s serves as ipso facto evidence of the validity of this contention.

Second (and please read this most carefully), the theological blueprint of any world religion, Islam excepted, is innocuous to the stability or well being of societies at large, including the polities those societies create. Nonetheless, violators of non-injurious creeds have existed through time. BUT, such persons, when acting in the name of their faith (again, not including Islam), were VIOLATING the tenets of their creed, not fulfilling them. When Muslims kill or maim or severely repress non-believers in the name of their faith, they are FULFILLING the dictates of their religion. You know this or should know it. So, when you call me and others haters for simply pointing out that Islam is possessed of a brutality to its core unlike any other major faith on earth, you reveal more about yourself and your limitations than you realize. Islam is the only religion on earth that calls for its adherents to conquer the world with miltiary force and impose its religious law upon every nation. NO OTHER RELIGION DOES THIS. I, Robert Spencer and so many persons who post on this site point this out and folks like you call us haters. We are not. We are truth tellers.

Third, and finally, look to the founders of each major religion or ethical system. They tell the examiner of such a great deal. Jesus ordered no one to be killed. Nor did the Buddha. Nor Zoroaster. Nor Confucius. Nor Lao-Tze. Nor Aristotle. Nor....... But Mohammed ordered thousands slaughtered. And the Muslim sources laud this. Mohammed also got all kinds of convenient revelations justifying his sexual desires. Can you name for me any major religious founder in history other than Mohammed who sanctioned killing and invoked divine approbation for the gratification of his sexual predilections? You see, Islam is sick in a way that no other major faith is and it starts with its founder. It's awful through and through. Go ahead, prove me wrong with anything I have written above. I dare you.

Posted by: Wellington at August 30, 2007 12:59 AM

Oops....I mean attaboy! :)

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 12:59 AM

lycaste: you said, "Christianity seeks the salvation of all human souls"

Surprisingly, all religions, even the one that you all are trashing so much, say the same thing. But the irony is that each of these religions want to do that 'salvation' in its own way!

You asked what do I have to show for the blood spilled in the name of Islam? The answer is "Greedy and Mercinary," Just like you said!

Posted by: ataa at August 30, 2007 1:03 AM

"Jesus or Muhammad, You Decide":

http://www.christring.org/shortseries/jesusormuhammad.htm

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 1:06 AM

ataaboy states, "But the irony is that each of these religions want to do that 'salvation' in its own way!"

Is this the irony you're referring to:

"The God of Jesus Christ sent His Son to die for you. The god of Muhammad demands that you send your son to die for him."

Islam's way of salvation is not for me!! No thank you, ataaboy!!

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 1:13 AM

"descendant...in spirit.…Marquise de....Vicomte de..."
-- from a posting above

Certainly not. In the first place, because powdered wigs would make me sneeze. In the second place, because I've never been able to get the hang of the passé simple. In the third place, because I would look silly in a redingote, even a redingote en (Jean-David) levite or, were I a Madame la Marquise rather than a Monsieur le Vicomte, would look comical and clumsy as I tried to affix a mouche to my cheek. And in the fourth place, because were I even "in spirit" such a descendant I would certainly not choose to be the kind of Frenchman who could flaunt a last name à particule. Google “I Am An American Day” and “Hugh Fitzgerald” for further proof.

As for ladri di biciclette, some of those sympathetic and desperate ladri are able to peddle those bicycles right up into, and then across, a sky backlit by the moon, as in that scene in “Miracolo a Milano” — a scene, incidentally, shamelessly copied, without attribution, in “E.T.”

As for the other losses you refer to, losses that go far beyond bicycles built for one or two, that’s another and more painful story. Woe is you, woe is me, woe are all God’s chillun-- if they only knew.

Posted by: Hugh at August 30, 2007 1:33 AM

Mr. Ataa -- You must understand that many people become rather viscerally upset by repeated and widespread murder, mayhem, rape, arson, child molestation, and robbery, all done in the name of your god and your prophet, who himself performed these actions and is yet held up as the "perfect man" by you and your coreligionists. Civilized people don't like these behaviors -- we call them "crimes" -- and we resent their importation into our communities under the cloak of religious obligation.

People of good will, who are nonviolent themselves, can justifiably become disturbed by Koranically-inspired campaigns of intimidation and fearmongering against them. Note that the reaction of good-willed, civilized people is, at its harshest, to call you "Troll-boy;" the reaction of your coreligionists to criticism is threats of murder and actual murder. You tell me who should feel "threatened," Ataa; you, or Ayaan Hirsi Ali? You, or Salman Rushdie? You, or Wafa Sultan, or Danish cartoonists, or Aramaic scholars, or even ordinary women daring to walk to the grocery store without stifling, choking, dirtying headwraps in communities all over Europe?

Why are you "threatened"?

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at August 30, 2007 1:38 AM

attaa -

You wrote:

But the participants of this group hate Islam from their guts

Oh yes, I, at the very least do hate Islam. I hate Islam with a passion. I hate everything that Islam stands for. I hate its intolerance, its bigotry, its hatred of women-kind, its hatred of gays, its hatred of democracy, its hatred of freedom, its hatred of Christians and all other religions. I hate its supremacism and I hate its masochism. I hate its denial of all the freedoms that we in the West have fought long and hard to achieve for our peoples. I hate its inability to compromise and I hate its inability to admit that it could, in even the slightest sense, be wrong. I hate its arrogance and its pride and its singular lack of humility and its bald assertions about morality without proof. I hate its certainty of the rightness of its faith and the denial of all other faiths. I hate its stupid viewpoint of a vengefull and active God where we have moved on and developed and have had revealed to us new concepts of God that Islam seems completely unable to accept.

I hate that Islam seems stuck in the dark ages of mankind - ages of retribution without forgiveness. I hate that Islam is nothing more than a religion of vengeance and tribulation and violence - see Iraq, Iran, India, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia (and other countries).

But most of all, I hate that Islam seeks the destruction of me and mine either by killing or by subservience to its false ideal and its false God. Religions are not all equal - some religions worship things and ideals that should not be named and Islam is, regrettably, one of them.

I know Evil and Devil worship when I see it. Islam is deeply evil and follows, as its prime precept, the works and voices of the Devil - in my opinion. So, I hate Islam. For you to say that I, and others, should not so hate is completely illogical and as arrogant as Islam is: it merely demonstrates the depth of your own depravity.

Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 30, 2007 1:40 AM

@aata

When you use the phrase "extremist Muslim's" I call them "good Muslims" based upon the teaching of the Koran. They are doing and acting just as they have been told by what it says and what the imam's teach. The vast majority of Muslims are just trying to live a quite peaceful life. They don't like what the good Muslims are saying but they are not saying that it is wrong. Allah is all judge (for non-Muslims) with no mercy (unless you are a Muslim). Islam at it's core offers not hope to mankind only death, pain and judgment. Muslims don't even know if they will be allowed into heaven even if they do everything that they are told. Exception for jihad's, they will allowed
and have many virgins to boot. This to me is perverse and appeals to the base nature of man.

Christianity is just the opposite. It's teachings are about a man who showed the love of God by dying. Not only that he told everyone he would die and rise from the dead. And he did. A good Christian does not wish to kill non-Christians. To counter your point about what Christians did in the past. I would argue that they were not real Christians and they were definitely not following Jesus teachings. When I use the word 'hope' I need to define it, 'hope' according to the bible is not wishful thinking but absolute trust that God is in control and relationship with him is as an adopted son.

This is why a cling to the true and living God and his Son Jesus the Christ(Messiah) and hate the false teachings and god of Islam. I hope you will consider what I have said because Jesus died for you as well. And offers forgiveness of sin and eternal life no stings attached.

Matt 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Mark 10:45
For even I, the Son of Man, came here not to be served but to serve others, and to give my life as a ransom for many.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

مات مات 40/12
كما كان لليونان ثلاثة ايام وثلاث ليال في البطن ضخم للأسماك ، حتى ابن رجل ستكون ثلاثة ايام وثلاث ليال في قلب الأرض.

مارك 10:45
حتى انا ، ابن الانسان ، جئنا الى هنا ليس ليخدم بل لخدمة الآخرين ، وإعطاء حياتي فدية للكثيرين.

الرومان 6:23
للاجور الذنب هو الموت ، لكن هدية مجانيه من الله الحياة الابديه من خلال يسوع المسيح ر

Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at August 30, 2007 2:01 AM

I hate the Koran's terroristic intolerance, and I hate the Hadiths' glorification of a pedophile warlord ands his cruelties, perversions and revenge fantasies.

And I hate sheep's eyeballs being considered a meal.

But I love freedom of thought, the liberation of men and women, the unchaining of all slaves and the tolerance of all modes of life, and I love the open-ended psychological, scientific, philosophical and spiritual development of the non-Islamic world.

Islam is a cage.

I hate cages.

I'm such a hater.

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 30, 2007 2:02 AM

an honest question to "Rev." Jim Sutter ("ataa"):

Don't you have better things to do in life? what's this obsession with Spencer and JW?

I Really, really think you should get some laid dude.

Posted by: Leopard at August 30, 2007 2:02 AM

I have read the comments from a couple of folks here, the one that really bugs me is Atta...

"All religions have done bad things" yada yada..

Ok we can't do anything about those now they were long in the past talking about the crusades and other Religious wars is ridiculous, and not helpful. It is called blame deflection.

My question is: What group of religious fanatics since the 1970's (almost 40 years) are responsible for more death and destruction in the name of their religion?

Jews? nope never heard of Jewish fanatics running around quoting their holy book and screaming God is great as they blow themselves up in a crowd.

Jews have killed their share of Muslims, but in defense of land NOT because their religion demands it.

Christians? Nope.

Buddhists? Nope

The church of scientology? other than killing my belief that Tom Cruise was actually cool, NOPE.

I'll take Muslims for a thousand Alex......

DING DING DING We have a winner......

Muslims have to bring their radical element under control, or else the war to end all wars will be fought, the bible says it will.

IMO this WOT is just a start, eventually the Politically Correctness of nations will give way to truth first... then we fight a religious war for real. It's coming.

Posted by: Robert at August 30, 2007 2:10 AM

Buongiorno, Hugh -

I'm just some sort of cultural tramp but I do agree, Zavattini and Vittorio de Sica produced a masterpiece - a silverscreen icon.

Pity that the powder might make you sneeze for the full-bottomed is my favoured apparel - in wig-wear!

Didn't this film take the Grand Prix at Cannes (before it was the Palme d'Or)?

Well, never having seen a picture of you I cannot say that you would look foolish in a great-coat - perhaps you would look silly in its frock-coat version but even there I think that the style might just suit you (and me) for it does flatter the male figure, don't you know.

The 'simple past'! Ha, would that I could live in the simple past. Perhaps the pluperfect would be plus-perfect and, therefore, more desirable.

Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 30, 2007 2:12 AM

That idiot wouldn't know "hate" if it bit him in the ass, especially since his own hypocrisy shows.
Actually he sounds more like a freshman "peace studies" rookie freshly indoctrinated from such notable institutions as berzerkely, but it, like him, doesn't matter.
We don't "hate" anyone...we DO however hate what we're forced to become, because of such elements as him. If calling a spade a spade like we do is what he calls "hate" let that stand as his testament, and history will judge us in the end-that's why I'm not the least bit worried what some little neanderthal troll wishes to provoke.
He doesn't need laid...he needs something a lot more important-a life...that way he can accept reality for what it is, and islam is NOT.
;-)

The trolls weapon is empty-don't give him any ammo & he can't fire.

Posted by: jcom972 at August 30, 2007 2:13 AM

Ataa,
Robert Spencer wrote:

Islam is unique among religions in having a developed doctrine, theology, and legal system mandating warfare against unbelievers. This is found in the Qur'an and Sunnah, as well as in Islamic jurisprudence. Many like to point to violent passages in the Bible as an alleged equivalent to this, but actually the Bible contains no open-ended, universal command for believers to wage war against unbelievers, as does the Qur'an (9:5, 9:29, 2:190-193, etc.).

If someone changes his Islamic religion, kill him.

A Danish language researcher has spent over three years analyzing the original texts of ten different religions, and concludes that the Islamic texts stand out by encouraging terror and violence to a larger degree than other religions do. Four years after the terror attacks at the World Trade Center, Danish linguist Tina Magaard presents an analysis that questions Islam’s relationship with terror, violence and Holy War.

Islamic texts encourage terror and fighting to a far larger degree than the original texts of other religions, concludes Tina Magaard. She has a PhD in Textual Analysis and Intercultural Communication from the Sorbonne in Paris, and has spent three years on a research project comparing the original texts of ten religions. “The texts in Islam distinguish themselves from the texts of other religions by encouraging violence and aggression against people with other religious beliefs to a larger degree. There are also straightforward calls for terror. This has long been a taboo in the research into Islam, but it is a fact that we need to deal with," says Tina Magaard. Moreover, there are hundreds of calls in the Koran for fighting against people of other faiths. “If it is correct that many Muslims view the Koran as the literal words of God, which cannot be interpreted or rephrased, then we have a problem. It is indisputable that the texts encourage terror and violence. Consequently, it must be reasonable to ask Muslims themselves how they relate to the text, if they read it as it is," says Tina Magaard.

A fourth reason people focus criticism on Islam is that since 9/11/01, thousands have died in Islamic terror attacks all over the globe. See here.

But perhaps the biggest reason many people focus criticism on Islam is that it seeks to spread the rule of Islamic law all over the globe, and subordinate non-Muslims to the status of debased, second-class citizens. See Qur'an, Chapter 9, verse 29:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger [Muhammad] have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book [Jews and Christians], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Posted by: traeh at August 30, 2007 2:18 AM

"The church of scientology? other than killing my belief that Tom Cruise was actually cool, NOPE"....HAAAA!!!!!

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 2:18 AM

Hugh -

And surely you have no need of a beauty spot - even on the fly, as it were, for I am sure that you are handsome chap and that those of the feminine persuasion swoon at your feet!

Posted by: OliverPCamford at August 30, 2007 2:21 AM

Home run, traeh! The Qur'an is it's own worst enemy.

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 2:26 AM

I know this is ten hours after Robert posted this thread but in case anyone else is still paying attention I want to share something I posted on LGF in 2003:

#66 Tasty Beverage 9/11/2003 3:04:28 pm PDT

#55 DonnaV

Or maybe 80 year old Swedish grandmas whose wheelchairs were searched at the airport while CAIR's entire membership sailed past.

They pulled out a man who looked to be in his 60s, white man, silver hair, very expensive
suit, briefcase. They made him take off his shoes and jacket, open the briefcase,
everything.

And they let the three guys in front of me, who were clearly from India or Pakistan, "sail
past" with nary a word.

(btw--I feel really bad for Hindus who get searched)

Those three might have been citizens, but to hear their accents they sure as hell weren't
born here. But security picked the dangerous, threatening grandpa, because you never know when those affluent grandpas are going to go on a rampage and hijack a plane.

Comforting, eh?

------------

That was 2003.

Posted by: Tasty Beverage at August 30, 2007 2:47 AM

...and one more thing for our troll, as he will be hearing it a LOT more often in the years to come.

LAN ASTASLEM!

Posted by: jcom972 at August 30, 2007 2:49 AM

Actually, to be completely accurate, the experience I just mentioned was early 2002, but I posted it on LGF in 2003.

So we were already f**** in 2002.

Posted by: Tasty Beverage at August 30, 2007 2:51 AM

lycaste: I posted the dictionary meaning of the word hate. You are right about the word irrational, it did not include that, I did.
There is a difference between hating something because of it's disagreable nature, and hating something because one is delusional, wrong headed, or just plain mean. If you have no rational reason to hate something, and do it anyway, that is irrational hate. This is the difference between hating Islam and not hating muslims. In my view it is rational to hate Islam as the destroyer of men, but not hate the destroyed. My whole point of view would fall if I hated muslims, but I don't. Having said that, there are some who's behavior and ideas I intensly dislike, but they get that from Islam, which I hate. Those who hate with no solid reason to do so, are irrational. It's as simple as that.

Posted by: duh_swami at August 30, 2007 3:08 AM

I can't believe what a bunch of nervous nellies
are posting on this sight. So they were speaking
Arabic, so what? If people speaking Arabic getting
on a airplane scares you then please stay home and
don't mess up my flight plans.

We now have to cater to the lowest common
denominator these days. How pathetic.

Posted by: whatdafuq at August 30, 2007 3:16 AM

Yup, on time too since henny penny didn't fly with
me!

Some Hash House Harriers got arrested recently
trying to mark a course to run on with flour
(because it's more biodegradable than chalk).

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/nyregion/25beer.html?_r=2&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Instead of approaching the individuals and finding
out what the hell they were doing they call the
cops and shut the store down. Sheesh.

It's sort of "flight 77 behavior" as opposed to
"flight 93 behavior" and we are all worse off
because of its proliferation.

Posted by: whatdafuq at August 30, 2007 3:51 AM

the mere fact that we haven not been hit since nine eleven is a miracle. if people are nervous of hearing arabic spoken by men well its natural for them to be so. it will get worse if we get hit again, and muslims might just have to leave for their own lands if they feel unsafe. so far the west has shown so much restaint, but the tension is there.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 30, 2007 3:59 AM

Whatdafuq has a point. In addition to speaking Arabic -- one of the ugliest languages to be forced to listen to, a particularly unfelicitous combination of infant babble syllables and coughing -- what else were they doing? How were they dressed? Were they wearing culturally inappropriate male dresses, throwing down carpets to chew, and screeching Allahu Akbar, or were they dressed in business suits and carrying briefcases and talking quietly among themselves? In other words, did these Muslims respect our culture? If the latter, and no typical outraged-Muslim-violent-intimidation-response occurred, then perhaps this whole business IS just so much nonsense.

But on the other hand, the "lowest common denominator" -- a category Muslims despise, signing on as they have to a frozen heirarchy of violence and domination -- has actually proved to be one of America's strengths, and we can't discard their point of view. All those lowly immigrants who fled tyrannies and despotisms, who learned the language, who sent their children to school not to parrot a holy book but to learn the world, who finally realized beating their wives did not produce a happy family -- all of them, and their sense of danger, might still be worth listening to.

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at August 30, 2007 4:09 AM

No Zena, I don't think it's a miracle. I think
it's because of aggressively going after them
and not waiting for another 9/11. It's because
we're not treating this as a law enforcement
exercise. There are things we know about-- killing
them with drone aircraft, throwing them in Gitmo,
attacking their "charities", evesdropping on their
communication-- and there are things we don't.

One thing that is not responsible for us not
getting hit again is any of the countermeasures
the TSA has come up with. Taking off my shoes
and having my 6oz tube of toothpaste confiscated
even though it had less than 2oz of actual
toothpaste in it have NOTHING to do with it.

This faux vigilence of nervously complaining
about Arabic speakers does nothing either. It
may be natural for some people to get nervous.
Whatever. But don't foist your nervousness on me!
Don't impact my day because you can't take it.
Stay home. Or take some valium.

Posted by: whatdafuq at August 30, 2007 4:13 AM

ah, narcissism at its finest.
lol

Posted by: jcom972 at August 30, 2007 5:12 AM

moooslims in America, take note: we know your goal and your M.O.

We know all believing moooslims have the same goal of global sharia.

We know izlam is not a religion of peace, but a religion of pieces, and hasn't been hijacked by extremists who are practicing some warped version of the cult.

We know there's no such thing as a "moderate" mooslim; there's just mooslims. The as-of-yet non-violent ones are simply less courageous than the violent jihadists, but still help the jihad by producing more mooslims, and providing the phony peaceful pool the murderers can swim within and get cover. Hence no outcry against the violence and no help in shutting it down.

We know you're planning to take over America through a combination of demographics and intimidation by terror, lawsuits, phoney victimization and accusations of izlamophobia, etc.

We know it all! Unfortunately for you, unlike Europe, Canada, Australia, and other nations, you will NEVER be able to take America! You bit off more than you can chew trying to take us!

Maybe you don't know us. Most Americans are fiercely patriotic, freedom-loving, independent, and well-armed and willing to defend our freedom. Eventually you will awaken the sleeping giant of American citizens who will then defend their freedom!

Posted by: tjn at August 30, 2007 5:23 AM

...Ataa has gone back to the mosque to get some instruction from his Islamic Slavemaster Cleric...he has discovered some infidels who seem to know the truth about Islam...ANd Muslims hate the truth , especially when the infidels know it....

Ban Muslim Immigration...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 30, 2007 6:16 AM

the mere fact that we haven not been hit since nine eleven is a miracle. if people are nervous of hearing arabic spoken by men well its natural for them to be so. it will get worse if we get hit again, and muslims might just have to leave for their own lands if they feel unsafe. so far the west has shown so much restaint, but the tension is there.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 30, 2007 3:59 AM

Miracle? Partly, true but there are a lot of people watching for this sort of hit in the making; and I am not convinced that a serious attempt (I don't mean plan -- I mean serious military style attempt) has yet been made in the US.

Traveling in the circles I do, I hear Arabic a lot so that doesn't bother me.

In this case, I would look at other behavior -- body language says many things about intent.

For example, I sat across a guy on a train once who was reading Sura 9 from a quran while the automated messaging system on the train warned of suspicious behavior etc.

He was wearing the typical muslim garb and did mutter the nefarious "allah akbar" phrase as he closed his quaran.

If I had felt for an instance that this guy was a threat, I would have been at his throat like a wolf -- damn the the law -- damn protocol -- and damn PC/multiculturalism.

The fact is, I "KNEW" he was not a threat somehow and simply smiled as we made eye-contact.

Maybe it was simply "battle-field-instinct" that kicked in -- I don't know; but I knew this guy posed no threat at the moment dispite outside appearaces and behavior.

Moral of story; if you don't like what is going down -- get off the plane; but try not to delay the flight.

If you are on public transportation and things go "bad"; do what you need to do.

Unfortunately, thanks to islam and not paranoia, you can expect more incidents like the one on this thread.

Posted by: witness at August 30, 2007 7:28 AM

WOW - got more of a response than expected for my first ever post :)

Glad you did not call me a TROLL - I did not even know what one was before - learn something every day.

Trust me I'm on your side - I just personally would not have been too freaked out with this flight situation. I fly every week - so maybe I'm overly sensative to delayed flights - drive me crazy.

Two other points - I'm not a PC guy at all - I tell it like it is. Also if I was on the plane and it blew up - I don't know if I would be ticked off or not. I am a Christian and 100% sure of where I will spend eternity. Don't get me wrong - I love my life and I'm not expecting to get 41 vigins in heaven, but I do expect it to be a better place than the world we live in today.

God Bless America

Posted by: ICareDoYou at August 30, 2007 7:52 AM

sheik yer'mami -- That'll teach me not to post while under the influence of extra-strength Benadryl and on my way to bed.

10 percent of 2 billion is 200 million, etc.

(I'm half-zonked this morning but I think I can hear you laughing...)

Posted by: Josephine at August 30, 2007 7:57 AM

cerebate says-

People tend to speak in their native tongues when they are with other people from their homelands. There is nothing wrong or scary about this.

This incident does show that a lot of people are scared about flying. While 9/11 is part of the reason people are scared, and yes it is good to be watchful and alert for any form of terrorism, it is also true that those in power in the United States, and those who stand to profit by it, including the media and Robert Spencer himself, have done their best to keep the people afraid. A British politician when asked how the American politicians(the left, the right, the center) get away with everything they have got away with, he replied saying "by keeping the people in fear and debt".
You need only read the various media stories and indeed this site itself to know the amount of truth in that statement.

People speaking in their native tongues never used to bother others. Arabs have changed that. That is their fault, not ours. Only the brainwashed don't react now.

9/11 is part of the reason people are scared, the other part is the constant threats coming from muslims. The videos promising big surprises don't make people think they are sending a nice gift. The threats to kill millions makes the talk by the politicans that you are more likely to get struck by lightening seem foolish.

And beyond ALL of that, the history of islamic conquest and destruction is a fact, to be ignored at your own peril and the peril of your children and grandchildren. That's both ancient history and recent history. Violence has been a part of islam from the start and there is no reason to think it will change.

The history of islam is conquest. Both by sweeping in and destroying or by immigrating and becoming a majority and causing civil war that leads to countries breaking up or becoming completely islamic by murdering the minorities or subjucating them. Read some factual history. Something with names and dates, not Armstrong fantasy.

Posted by: Borg at August 30, 2007 8:41 AM

cerebate- performing namaz? Going over to the dark side?

ataa- If all islam wants is to save souls, why is it that only muslims are allowed to handle a true koran? Why does allah put a seal on non-believers hearts so that they do not know the 'truth'? If allah really wanted all people to know islam why doesn't he just put it in their hearts? Islam is a sham. And if the koran is perfect then allah can't add.

Posted by: Borg at August 30, 2007 10:03 AM

"We now have to cater to the lowest common
denominator these days. How pathetic"....from posting above.

I know the feeling, since that is the lowest common denominator USERNAME on record.

Posted by: champ at August 30, 2007 10:11 AM

ataa, No one is afraid of you and your death cult, aware does not equate fear. You cowards have no problem killing children(hell, you use the name of a killer), I'd take my kid off of that flight too. But, if I didn't have jr w/ me, I'd stay on board and stare you down for the entire flight, one wrong move and it would be showtime. OH YEAH!!!

Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 30, 2007 10:16 AM

Somebody wrote a great letter to a newspaper, I was surprised it was printed. It was a short question, I wish I remember the guys name so he could get credit. He asked "If islam is a religion of peace, why are most terrorist named mohammed?" Great question, I wonder why that is?

Posted by: americanmadestrat at August 30, 2007 10:21 AM

This incident also suggests that

people are realizing that Islam is NOT a religion of peace

and the tiny minority of people willing to become terrorists is not so tiny after all (10 percent of 2 billion is still 2 million, etc.)-posted by Josephine

B I N G O!