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Professor Carl Ernst of the University of North Carolina recently saw fit to include a trip to Jihad Watch -- in a disparaging context, of course -- in his "Introduction to Islamic Civilization" course. Ernst thus demonstrates how threatened he is by the challenge we represent to the Middle East Studies academic establishment and the propaganda it purveys in our nation's universities.
And threatened he should feel, intellectually, because at Jihad Watch we are revealing the truths about Islam that he leaves out of his courses or glosses over, and are thereby challenging his academic integrity -- and not just Ernst's, but that of the entire Middle East Studies establishment. Six years after the United States was attacked by Islamic jihadists, there are few courses in colleges anywhere in the country on the jihad ideology, on Islamic supremacism, on dhimmitude, or on any related topic.
Instead, syllabi are filled with soothing apologetics that do not equip students to understand why the jihadists attacked us, what they hope to accomplish, or the many ways both violent and nonviolent that they are going about accomplishing it. Syllabi feature sentimental, hagiographic fictionalizations of aspects of Islamic history (Maria Rosa Menocal's The Ornament of the World about Muslim Spain), propagandistic smears on honest scholars and genuine scholarship (Edward Said's Orientalism), and worse.
Hugh Fitzgerald offers an alternative reading list here for students who want the truth rather than propaganda, and want to equip themselves to understand the jihad threat realistically. There are many other books we can recommend to students in particular courses as antidotes to the politically-motivated and highly biased perspective being offered by the professor. We understand, of course, that many professors in today's academically impoverished age will mark students down for disagreement, and so students often must play along, at least on papers and exams, by parroting the propaganda line being pushed by the professor.
But that shouldn't stop you from getting an education.
Hugh suggested this to me yesterday, and I think it's a terrific idea: college students, send us your syllabi. Without naming you, we will post them here and Hugh or I or both will discuss them, laying bare the conclusions your professor wants you to come to as betrayed by his choice of reading material. And we will offer alternative reading for you to take up by flashlight under the covers, not so as to affect your grade, but to give you an informed perspective. A sober knowledge of reality is always more useful than canned propaganda, and this alternative reading will stand you in good stead for the future: Islamic jihad is not going to go away, no matter how strenuously the Carl Ernsts of the world play pretend that it doesn't exist.
Send us your syllabi. It will provide observers insight into what they're calling education in Islamic Studies these days, and give us a chance to recommend readings that many others might find useful as well.
Jihad Watch: Take Us To College.
Posted by Robert at September 5, 2007 10:16 AM
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I know you went to Carolina and this Wake grad won't hold it against you. But Carolina has to come to terms with the 'insane' guy who plowed through a group of innocent students with his SUV at the pit (student gathering) in Chapel Hill. They want to dismiss him as 'insane'.
I guess they figure that if they have more studies that are sympathetic to Islam, they'll have less jihadis plowing through their students (crazy or not). He SAID he did it to avenge the treatment of muslims by America. . . I wonder if this course will go into 'poor treatment of muslims by America', or 'Koranic reasons muslims turn to jihad'. My bet is that at Carolina, they 'blame America'.
Thank you for your site and for allowing me to post here. Keep up the good work spreading the truth.
Posted by: ThackerAgency![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 5, 2007 10:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-tjAFnv9LU
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 10:57 AM
Interesting idea! Unfortunately, as the mother of a returning Junior at the Univ. of WI, Madison, I can tell you that right now their minds are not on reading Jihad Watch (or anything else for that matter!) as they settle back in to college life after the summer. My son is majoring in Religious History with an emphasis on Islamic studies and I can tell you, the syllabus for any and all of his classes is badly slanted to the PC left - especially in his class last year with 9/11 Conspiracy nutjob Kevin Barrett.
Robert (or Hugh, can't remember which of you it was), if you look back in your email files from last year, I sent you a list of books and authors from one of my son's classes with an inquiry to you as to their merits...I did not get a reply. However, at least that would serve as an indication of some of the reading matter assigned here at the University of Wisconistan.
Posted by: mepeteart at September 5, 2007 11:02 AM
The Academics are doing a damn good job of teaching American kids to hate the USA, the U.S. government and the U.S. military, and leaving out the "dirty details" about Jihad, Sharia and Islam from the lesson plan is absolutely intentional on the part of the majority of these former flower children.
Posted by: Foehammer at September 5, 2007 11:13 AM
Carl Ernst's mention of this site, and of Robert Spencer, is an obvious attempt, of course, to pre-empt those of his students who might, just might, on their own find out about this site, highly dangerous, "subversive" in the best sense, of the likes of Carl Ernst and of MESA Nostra (which google). By mentioning it, and then by undercutting it as best he can, Ernst hopes to somehow neutralize the effect of what this site contains, and the other information about Islam---books, articles, websites run by former Muslims --that might, shall we say, "confuse" his students and knock them off the True Path, fi sabil Ernst or fi sabil Safi or fi sabil Khalidi, Dabashi, you name it.
In this respect he is doing exactly as any propagandist -- not someone seeking the truth but seeking to suppress the truth -- would do, trying to keep within narrow bounds what those whose minds he is attempting to mold can find out about. Whatt is fantastic is the amount of success that such people have had in universities, not only those who are at Arab-funded "Centers" as at Exeter and Durham in England (where they carefully vet the faculty and the courses, and drive out any of those -- such as Denis MacEaoin, who dare to tell the truth), or at strategically-located Georgetown, that has not one but two such "Centers." For there, smack in the middle of Washington, is not only John Esposito's
Arab-funded fiefdom, started with seed money from a Lebanese islamochristian contractor, and now financed by the Gulf Arabs and the Saudis, that "Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding" where lean, mean, jogging John Esposito churns out the coffee-table books, full of pretty pictures of blue mosques and turbaned Turks and Iznik tiles that get you so that you forget to ask that question you were meaning to ask (what was it again? Oh yes, "well, what about Islam?"), so dazzled are you by the couleur locale and easy appeal-to-the-eye of those photographs, and then there are his "scholarly" contributions ("Islamic Holy War - Myth or Reality?"), about which the less said the better.
And cheek by sagging jowl to Esposito's operation is another "Center" that drapes itself in the Georgetown colors: that Arab (mostly Kuwaiti, I believe) funded, "Center for Contemporary Arab Studies," where goodsir Michael Hudson, and a Khalidi or two, and others have done their bit to make sure that no one figures out that the most imiportant thing to know about, when discussing the Middle East or Arabs, is Islam, Islam, Islam. Its texts. Its tenets. Its attitudes. Its atmospherics. No, you won't hear about that, you lazy Congressional aide, calling up the "Center" for advice on something to do with the Middle East. Nor will that equally lazy journalist, or that anti-Israel journalist (who could we have in mind? Novak? Georgie Anne Geyer? There are so many to choose from.) who wants a nice quote to stick into his story that will buttress his slant, his transparent prejudices.
It was the same when Martin Kramer's devasting little book on the state of play in Middle Eastern sutdies came out. This short book was going, intelligent apologists for Islam knew, to find its way into the hands of graduate students, certainly, and possibly into the hands of the cleverer undergraduates as well. Oh dear. What could be done? So they began to do what Roger Owen, once a "well-known PLO groupie" (J. B. Kelly's descrition of him to me) and lowly lecturer of some sort or another at St. Antony's, who somehow -- god knows how -- managed to get to Harvard, and even to become that appetizing thing, the "A. J. Meyer Professor of Middle Eastern Economics" (according to Kelly, A. J. Meyer was himself not much of anything), a chair funded by...well, who do you think might have funded such a chair? What Arab government? Or what oil company, intent on currying favor with the Saudis and others? Go ahead, find out by calling Harvard and let's put the results right here, shall we?). Owen cleverly assigned Kramer's text, assigned it but made sure it was attacked in a hundred undercutting ways, using not a sword but rather a bare bodkin, inserted here, and here, and here, and here.
Carl Ernst isn't quite as clever as Roger Owen. But he's trying. He's giving it the old college try.
Meanwhile, let's all listen one more time to George Olsen and His Orchestra doing the "Varsity Drag" -- to which, at this full-service site, I have provided a link just above.
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 11:23 AM
YOUR BRAINWASHING SESSION HAS JUST BEEN INTERRUPTED
While esteemed American university professors across the country prepare their courses, blaming Bush for 9/11 and bemoaning any strong response by the West against their global jihad, some in the West are standing up for TRUTH, JUSTICE, AND THE AMERICAN WAY.
What happens when you turn a flashlight on a bunch of roaches in the dark? They start to scramble in every direction as fast as they can. College professors reading this post by Robert are scrambling at the thought of having their brainwashing apologies for evil being EXPOSED! Outstanding!
Posted by: Tookson at September 5, 2007 11:34 AM
An audio tape of a classroom session would also be very valuable and illuminating.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 11:42 AM
Toeing the line in your essays and exams is an option, but bear in mind that if you get a high mark in your dissertation, they might put it in the university library which students would have access to.
Posted by: Houri G'Ella at September 5, 2007 11:54 AM
Robert says:
"Six years after the United States was attacked by Islamic jihadists, there is no course in any college anywhere in the country on the jihad ideology, on Islamic supremacism, on dhimmitude, or on any related topic. Not a single one."
I have been reading and learning so much about Islam lately I have often wondered about returning to school for an advanced degree in middle east or Islamic studies. I often wondered which, if any, schools would be worthwhile considering.
CampusWatch, a link is provided at JW home page, has a list of colleges and universities that offer middle east and islamic studies. It also has a sections for "recommended professors" here:
http://www.campus-watch.org/recommends.php
I recognize some names as authors of books that do not treat the anaylsis of Islam with the type of bias and timidry as a Carl Ernst or a John Esposito (Walid Phares, Efraim Karsh, P. Crone)
I wonder whether you are absolutely sure there is not a single course offered on jihad ideology as you state. Why would Campus Watch list these "recommended" professors?
Posted by: USorThem at September 5, 2007 12:08 PM
UsorThem:
I wouldn't agree with all the recommendations, but your point is well taken, and I have adjusted the original post.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at September 5, 2007 12:10 PM
Armstrong ,Esposito That is all.
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at September 5, 2007 12:12 PM
Spencer trying to evaluate syllabus of University professors!!!
Ha..Ha..Ha,
Spencer, stay in your pan, buddy! If you were qualified enough to evaluate the professors, you would have been a professor yourself. You are not, remember? You are just a hatemongering blogger. So , keep doing what you are doing, that's what suits you.
YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A PROFESSOR, even at a 3rd tier US public University. So, go evaluate materials from other bloggers etc., not from University professors. US universities are best in the world for some reason - because they hire qualified people. And you are not qualified.
Stay in your pan!
Posted by: ataa at September 5, 2007 12:16 PM
Guest speakers will be Dinesh D'Souza and the lunatic nun who claims to be both a christian and a muslim.
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at September 5, 2007 12:20 PM
Ataa: I am helping to write a textbook on critical thinking and logical fallacies.
Hence I must thank you for supplying us with what, following a few minor edits, will serve as a textbook example of "poisoning the well."
Posted by: Matt A. Moros at September 5, 2007 12:31 PM
Is Univ. of Houston's student newspaper Opinion Editor an al-Qaeda sympathizer?
U.S. silencing of Guantanamo poetry unjust By Sousan Hammad... Whether the prisoners are guilty is moot; it is unfair and unjust to deny them the right of poetry. It would be an entirely different story if their writings were politically motivated, but their writings are but a mere story, an art form to describe their feelings. Pablo Neruda, the Chilean poet, wrote that he never searched for poetry; it instead was in search for him... For prisoners - whether in Guantanamo Bay or in the Palestinian Territories - poetry helps ease frustration. It helps to break up the structure of time, and it helps to give prisoners hope that maybe, just maybe, their prison walls will one day disappear.See also al-Qaeda Training Manual Chapter 13 - Secret Writing And Ciphers And Codes Posted by: Terp Mole
at September 5, 2007 12:35 PM
"Spencer trying to evaluate syllabus of University professors!!!
"Ha..Ha..Ha,
"Spencer, stay in your pan, buddy! If you were qualified enough to evaluate the professors, you would have been a professor yourself. You are not, remember? You are just a hatemongering blogger. So , keep doing what you are doing, that's what suits you.
"YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A PROFESSOR, even at a 3rd tier US public University. So, go evaluate materials from other bloggers etc., not from University professors. US universities are best in the world for some reason - because they hire qualified people. And you are not qualified.
"Stay in your pan!"
[Posted by: ataa]
This is an interesting, if slightly flawed, argument.
Robert Spencer isn't a politician - does this mean he is "not qualified" to assess politicians' manifestos or question their views?
By the same token, Spencer should be barred from voting because he is "not qualified" to be a politician. If he wants to criticise politicians he must stand for election first.
Robert Spencer isn't a professional sportsman - does this mean he is "not qualified" to comment on his favourite football team's performances or criticise the coach's tactics? I expect millions of sports fans around the world might take issue with this.
If we follow this principle to its logical conclusion, no one should be entitled to vote; indeed, no one would be entitled to comment on anything, ever.
Come to think of it, my good man/lady, what qualifications do you have to evaluate Spencer's views?
Posted by: A Nonny Nonny at September 5, 2007 12:35 PM
ataa,
why would Spencer even want to be a professor? He makes much more money with speaking engagements, blogging, and selling books.
Why would he want to teach at a University that was more interested in spreading misinformation than truth?
He knows the material. I don't agree with everything Spencer says. But I haven't found anyone who has countered his arguments with anything other than insults (as you have give), mischaracterizations, and outright lies. I've been reading Spencer for a while. He references and documents everything he says. I encourage differing views. I haven't heard any from any of these 'reputable professors' you enjoy.
Posted by: ThackerAgency at September 5, 2007 12:37 PM
I often refer to the Jihad Watch School when I refer to it to other people, but now there is no question about it. We even learn how to write from studying Hugh's columns as a bonus as we study Islam. It's a school offering diversity of thought.
Posted by: Frank at September 5, 2007 12:44 PM
Ataa, Spencer is the embodiment of the phrase ‘those that can, do. Those who can’t, teach.
He doesn't use blogged opinion, he cites from reported sources. At risk of more of your trollery, what are your sources?
Now, back to wiping the coffee off my monitor from Hugh’s link to the ‘Varsity Drag’.
Posted by: Shakey_Premise at September 5, 2007 12:54 PM
@muhammad ataa
stay in your plane, jihadi boy'
ha ha ha ha
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 5, 2007 12:57 PM
Nonny Nonny, Ataa's arguments are not slightly flawed. They are seriously flawed.
This would mean that I can't comment on the recent performance of Notre Dame against Georgia Tech or that I cannot make critical comments about a pitcher who gives up eight earned runs in two innings.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 1:00 PM
"Robert says:"Six years after the United States was attacked by Islamic jihadists, there is no course in any college anywhere in the country on the jihad ideology, on Islamic supremacism, on dhimmitude, or on any related topic. Not a single one."
I have been a regular reader of this site for a few years now. The education I've received in the process is priceless.
Recognizing Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald as the finest instructors of jihad ideology available today . . .have either of you considered this as an opportunity to provide an online course on jihad ideology?
Is there a college/university that would offer transferable credits for such? What about an online course in Arabic taught by either an Arab Jew, muslim apostate, or Christian which could avoid any muslim conflict of interest?
My guess is there is an interest in such a program. I for one would immediately register for such a program assuming it is either run by Spencer/Fitzgerald or approved by them.
Is this feasible?
Posted by: justamomof4 at September 5, 2007 1:07 PM
I guess a qualified professor ataa holds in such esteem is the mental midget Ward Churchill passing off lies and plagiarism as scholarly work.
Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at September 5, 2007 1:09 PM
Ataa, I have a better idea. Why can't you use your geometric logic and refute what Spencer says. You haven't yet.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 1:10 PM
ataa,
So by your logic you must first prove you have any qualification to be criticizing Robert. So please, what are your qualifications and could you issue proof of these qualifications? Since the topic is Islam, I'm assuming you're a professor of Islamic studies at an accredited university (and have received your Phd at an equally accredited university).
So before you continue, if you're going to make the rules, you also have to play by them. Where's your qualifications?
Posted by: JohnDakota at September 5, 2007 1:11 PM
I will have to say that this sort of stuff (stalinesque propaganda) is my greatest concern. I am looking for info on a decent university for my youngest boy. Right now I am trying to figure out where he should apply that won’t pollute him with propaganda, he is pubic schooled but I fought the good fight and won and I want to keep it that way if I can. I have devoted countless hours over the years educating him and debating the bologna he brings home when necessary. I have spent a lot of time and effort training him to think for himself using the facts in spite of how the answer makes him feel and I don’t want my efforts screwed up by some random group of wacademics.
Harvard has sent him a application but what I have heard about that place lately so even if he were to be accepted I don’t think I want to spend my money there. He has mentioned wanting to attend Duke (you probably know how I feel about that place) but I have cunningly dissuaded him from that idea, I think. The Military Academy he would have considered but they don’t allow him the skip the full year and enter as a sophomore that he is set to do so he says that’s out he wont even apply, he’s a bit stubborn. Where ever he goes he will be a minority, last year in history class the teacher asked who could trace their family in America back to the Civil War. There were only three of 30 that raised their hand and I suppose that is indicative of the colleges as well, sadly the teacher didn’t even bother asking for a show of hands regarding the Revolution.
I want a patriotic pro American truth seeking school that will educate him further, not indoctrinate, and so does he but how do I find one? I have emailed people such as Mr. Horowitz and have received responses on how to pick a good school as per the location of the library/what is happening around it etc but I have yet to get any info on how to judge the educators ideologies at these institutions. Is there a stay away from that school list, a don’t choose this professor advisory some where? Many of you out there are much younger and or brighter than I and the schools have changed since the days of my yout (of course we did a lot more inventing with a lot less in those days as well), so are there any ideas out there because I am wracking my brain over this decision and going no where fast. If JW is still looking for syllabuses when he gets his I will send it along directly, in the mean time I look forward to more info or updates on this topic.
Who built these great American institutions, certainly not leftist propagandists, it is only in the last few decades during which leftists have hijacked these great institutions that we see academic standards crumbling. What we see happening is no different than you or I shooting everyone who was ever involved with what we have made of ourselves and calling it an improvement. Every racist group has a voice on campus, we never used to see that but again we see leftist ideologies rearing their ugly heads. I give these schools a couple more decades in leftist hands and they won’t even exist any longer, crushed out by the usual suspects from within. Who knows, maybe someday in the future we will rebuild them again.
at September 5, 2007 1:12 PM
Robert, as evinced by the vitriolic spewings of this 'ataa' clown, you are striking a nerve. More power to you!
Posted by: Infidel33 at September 5, 2007 1:14 PM
I don't know, but very much doubt, that Robert Spencer is making all kinds of money as is casually suggested in a few postings above. I know he works like a dog, and always has. He certainly is not running some self-aggrandizing outfit, and he is not making anything like the kind of money that Edward Abington makes hired as an agent of the "Palestinians" just after, as his last official act, he helped persuade the American government to give the "Palestinians" $400 million dollars in American aid, and then retired, and went right to work for them, at a salary of $750,000 a year for five years. Not bad, eh? And now that same Edward Abington is testifying as to what a swell bunch some group -- Hamas, the Holy Land Foundation, something or other -- that even the timid American government has declared beyond the pale.
And Abington in his testimony also maintains that the word "Islamist" merely describes a Believer who is quietly pious, recites the five canoncial prayers (salat), tithes (zakat), observes Ramadan, and hopes to hotfoot it on a hajj in order to walk widdershins seven times round the Magic Wonderstone at least once in his lifetime.
As far as I can tell, all the money that's to made is to be made as an agent of the Arabs and Islam. But if I'm wrong, if there is some way I can eke out a slightly-less absurdly precarious existence than I now do, let me know. Bigshots in Hollywood orin business are invited to hire me as their personal "Current-Affairs Adviser" (you know, just like those people who work for Barbara Streisand and Richard Dreyfuss and all those others who need someone else to read the newspapers and "Foreign Affairs" for them, and tell them what to think). Also available, of course, for all the usual. You know: "Political Risk Analysis." The kind of thing that corporate executives like to hire people to give them, and not only about energy.
Oh, I'll give you your money's worth on "Political Risk" Analysis. Why, I have what everyone claims to have, A Proven Track Record of Success. The last client I advised, a certain United States Government, could have saved round about $800 billion. And it wasn't my fault if that client refused to take my advice.
And I'll tell you what to think, alright., just the way someone is telling Dreyfuss or Streisand or Acme Global or Integrity Management ($183 billion in assets) what to think.
You shouldn't have to worry. And your nice coroporation shouldn't have to worry its pretty little head, either, about all the things that happen in the big wide world. Your worrying days are over, yes sir, once you have me as your mental factotum. So relax. I'll be right over.
Now, about that consultant's retainer...
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 1:15 PM
@ataa
Your junior high school principal just called. He wants to know why you're not in school today.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 5, 2007 1:15 PM
Spencer has learned from Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propagandist. He keeps saying same lie for hundreds of times, hoping people will think it true. - posted by ataa
ataa,
Kindly provide the text (with link)for this 'same lie' he [Spencer] keeps saying in Goebbels propagandist style "for hundreds of times", if you can.
Posted by: justamomof4 at September 5, 2007 1:16 PM
My husband and I have been investigating where to send our kids for a good non-indoctrinating education. We like Hillsdale in Michigan so far.
http://www.hillsdale.edu/about/default.asp
They have a great newsletter you can subscribe to called Imprimus
http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis.asp
Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at September 5, 2007 1:17 PM
ataaboy only uses circular reasoning in his assertions. He is qualified to speak because he has a PhD in:
"BECAUSE I SAID SO"
Posted by: champ at September 5, 2007 1:17 PM
Ataa it should be easy to re post this "hate" you speak of. I know Spencer is accurate when he writes and speaks about Islam because I have the same source material, The founding documents of Islam,I would be interested to know if any of those are recommended reading in the syllabus.. I think that is the point here.What is being taught Islam or apologetics?
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at September 5, 2007 1:20 PM
Ataa, the newspapers are full of sportswriters who have never played the games beyond junior high school. There are plenty of political writers who have never even run for office, much less gotten elected.
" . . . and those false claims have been answered by scholars (Muslim and non-Muslim) throughout the centuries."
OK, Mr. Ataa, who might these scholars be? Name one; the world wonders.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 1:22 PM
Reading ataa's posts reminds me of an old quote from Bertrand Russell:
"Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death....Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man."
Posted by: Mike at September 5, 2007 1:25 PM
aata. You shouldn't fear Truth.
Really, you should not.
'the truth shall set you free' !!
at September 5, 2007 1:27 PM
Looks like the lying "reverend" has socked up he is now calling himself ataa
http://exposingsutter.blogspot.com/
Posted by: Lady Predator at September 5, 2007 1:28 PM
Robert,
I am a currently enrolled in a course entitled Violence and Religion being taught by a Phd. who hasn't a clue about islam. Says he, "Muslims beleieve the Torah and Bible are sacred scripture, Jews and Christians are people of the book". I thaught his jaw was going to fall off when I told him that being people of the book means "We will kill you second" and then I proved it from islamic sources. Thanks to all the time spent at this and other sittes as well as books, it's going to be an interesting class!!!
at September 5, 2007 1:33 PM
tgusa,
The Young America's Foundation, based in Herndon, VA of all places (lots of islamic organizations nearby...many raided after 9/11) puts out a list of the 10 best colleges. See www.yaf.org.
Also there is an Encarta list (from Princeton Review) that lists top 10 most politically conservative colleges. It appears that several of the schools overlap.
We are in the midst of a similar search for one of our kids.
Good luck!
Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at September 5, 2007 1:36 PM
If you were qualified enough to evaluate the professors, you would have been a professor yourself.
ataa,
You don't know sh*t about the 'training' of professors. Having been through this kind of training to teach, after obtaining a real degree of English Literature, I can tell you that you have NO CLUE about their 'expertise.'
Besides, so what? So what if Robert's 'education' came unofficially through the personal study, process, and analysis of Islam? WHAT HAVE YOU STUDIED THAT MAKES YOU SUCH AN EXPERT?
According to your theory, our Founding Fathers would not have been able to criticize their own political environment, George III's rule, or anything else for that matter. Franklin wouldn't even have been able to be a printer, for cryin' out loud!
Oh and BTW, it's syllabi not syllabuses, Genius. What an authority figure you are.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at September 5, 2007 1:36 PM
RecoveringHog, It's encouraging to see some intellectual bravery, but your GPA hangs in the balance. Be careful, do not show up the prof in front of his students.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 1:38 PM
@RecoveringHog: I'm glad to read that healthy debate and reasoned discourse hasn't completely been swept under the rug at every university. A professor truly worth the name should always be open to learning from his students if the truth is put forward.
Any that aren't should be held accountable.
Posted by: Foehammer at September 5, 2007 1:38 PM
Pelayo and Foehammer:
This professor is a rarity. It is a seminar style course (not lecture) and he actually admits he does not know everything. He folows the Socratic telos -- Through discussion and argument, we learn from each other.
I have already started working on my final project -- an oral presentation to the class "Intro to islam and common misconceptions"
Posted by: RecoveringHog at September 5, 2007 1:44 PM
Some of the greatest minds in history have been autodidactic . Degrees do not impress me -- words and deeds might.
Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald continue to impress. Most of my former professors? I can only name a handful. So much for impressions -- and starchy diplomas.
Posted by: Foehammer at September 5, 2007 1:44 PM
RecoveringHog, does your screen name have anything to do with the University of Arkansas? A Tennessee Alum wants to know.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 1:45 PM
Pelayo and Foehammer:
This professor is a rarity. It is a seminar style course (not lecture) and he actually admits he does not know everything. He folows the Socratic telos -- Through discussion and argument, we learn from each other.
I have already started working on my final project -- an oral presentation to the class "Intro to islam and common misconceptions"
Posted by: RecoveringHog at September 5, 2007 1:47 PM
Newsflash to ataa:
People can hate anything they want if they believe it's worthy of being hated, such as Nazism.
Islam is also worthy of being hated. And boy are you an example of why Islam is worthy of being despised.
Oh, the plural is "syllabi," btw, you ignoramus.
Robert Spencer has more brains in his little finger than you in your Mohammedan pea-brain. You couldn't teach a class on what makes grass grow.
Posted by: darcy at September 5, 2007 1:48 PM
Good on ya' RecoveringHog. You should approach anything that prof says about any religion with scepticism. If you were not prepared by your own reading and thinking, you might have swallowed his line. Keep punching away. You may even be able to educate him.
Posted by: MP at September 5, 2007 1:49 PM
Ataa, here is a website with many critics of Islam, all ex-Muslims. Enjoy!
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm
Posted by: Tom D at September 5, 2007 1:50 PM
Pelayo: No I am a Junior at a private eastern college founded by epicopalians.
Posted by: RecoveringHog at September 5, 2007 1:52 PM
Oh, geez...are you all still feeding that troll?
lol...bigger fish to fry than a micro-diversionary like that.
Anyway, back to topic...this should prove interesting on the syllabi...actually I want to see Robert's expose` on them...because it tends to give islamists and their lackeys like ernst strokes.
If ya liked what was righteously done with that propagandist ward churchill, "you ain't seen nothin' yet!"
lol
Posted by: jcom972 at September 5, 2007 1:55 PM
ataa (the intellectual bore) wrote:
"YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE A PROFESSOR, even at a 3rd tier US public University.
Well, ataa, your record of never introducing a supportable fact to your argument remains intact.
I believe, a doctorate is usually required for tenured positions, it is by no means an absolute requirement upon hiring. A simple search of "how to" produced the following results:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060825095225AALZH19
There are many qualified college professors of religion with doctorates, one example is Laury Silvers, yes, the daughter of the famed comedic actor, Phil Silvers:
http://cms.skidmore.edu/religion/faculty/index.cfm
More on Laury Silvers, no fan of true Islamists it seems:
http://pmunadebate.blogspot.com/2005/08/another-resignation-question.html
Posted by: awake
at September 5, 2007 1:56 PM
@ataa
mighty impressive.
now show us the hateful and false statements that Spencer (Peace Be Upon Him) has made on this site regarding muhammadans.
show us even one.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 5, 2007 1:57 PM
Oh, also, ataa, Robert Spencer publishes TRUTH "materials" and "Islamophobia" is something all of the INTELLIGENT people are these days, didn't you know? Oh, right - you're not an intelligent person, you're a dumb "slave" to a "god" that doesn't exist.
GOT IT?
Posted by: darcy at September 5, 2007 1:59 PM
Posted by: ataa
I'm using the proper Latin, you twit. Shows that you just use a dictionary, rather than your brain.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at September 5, 2007 2:02 PM
Be careful, those of you for some strange reason have decided to take a course on Islam, or subjects related to Islam (e.g., a course on anything having to do with the Middle East, or India, or Comparative Religion, or World Politics Today), and you suspect that the instructor is an apologist in one form or another. That form may be the forme fruste of the disease -- we are making Grand Rounds, for those of you who didn’t know -- and manageable, just, but it may also be the full-fledged thing and why should you have to endure a lower grade inflicted by a vindictive Muslim or Muslim-apologist grader? You shouldn’t.
One example. A few years ago someone I know took a course at Harvard on Islam. The graders were Muslims. On the final examination, the short-answer part of the exam consisted of a list of items that needed to be identified and discussed in a few sentences. One of the items was “Muhammad’s Night Journey.” So the student explained what this was, and where it was said to have happened, and that it was called the “miraj,” and what Muhammad actually did on his fabulous winged creature al-Buraq. But what the student did, that proved fatal to his grade on this question, and on the grades he received for the other questions, was his including the phrase “as Muslims believe” or “Muslims believe that…” When he went to complain about the entirely unjustified “C” he received on the exam – and a failing grade on that particular question – he was asked why he had written “as Muslims believe.” Well, he answered, they do believe it. But, asked the grader-instructor, are you implying that it isn’t true, that Muhammad did not make his Night Journey on Al-Buraq? The student was too stunned to answer. It was clear that the slightest calling into question of Muslim beliefs was going to be punished.
I urged that student to go to the President of Harvard and make a stink. He was graduating and chose not to. But he hasn’t forgotten what happened. And he told me that it had colored forever his view of Islam, and also his view of Harvard.
The moral of this story, not fable, is: Watch out. Faites attention. Ostorozhno. Your every phrase is indeed being watched, by Muslim teachers, for signs of any slight calling into question of the Received Islamic Version of Reality, and by their non-Muslim willing collaborators, for any signs of disrespect or doubt exhibited toward Islam.
Perhaps you think that despite all this, you may learn something. Yes, you will learn something, and if you come out un-indoctrinated on the other side, you may come out as the boy in the story above did, far readier and able to learn the grim truth about Islam because you had been subjected to brainwashing.
at September 5, 2007 2:03 PM
Thanks No_Mooselimbs, eve_anne_gelical, good luck to you as well!
Posted by: tgusa at September 5, 2007 2:04 PM
tgusa,
I live in Chapel HIll, Orange County NC. I'm surrounded by some of the best universities in the United States (or so NC residents like to tell everybody). I've checked into nearly all of them. Only, I've been looking more into the academic advantages rather than the influences of the left. (I'm sure they are at all of these universities). I have to say, UNC Chapel Hill is my fav so far.(And it's not just because I work at UNC Hospital)...Duke would be my last choice (and that IS because I used to work at Duke Hospital).. but we have Wake Forest, NC State, UNC Greensboro (all within 40 miles of Chapel Hill) and then there's UNC Pembroke and UNC Wilmington..perhaps I am a bit stuck on UNC.. good luck on finding a suitable school for your son...
at September 5, 2007 2:07 PM
Miss_Anthrope, you know very well that Mohammed took away any brain power from that pathetically deceived, even all of these centuries later, group of "slaves" to "allah" known as Muslims.
Posted by: darcy at September 5, 2007 2:07 PM
Xorosho, Hugh. Sposibo pozhaluista.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at September 5, 2007 2:07 PM
Hugh, Robert, do either of you remember the photograph possibly posted on this site of a Jewish female professor, virulently anti Israel, wearing the keffiyeh as a fashion statement, smiling broadly for the camera? She was a tad plump with glasses. I don't remember if it was this site or some other site, but there was mirthful commentary about it.
Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at September 5, 2007 2:10 PM
You mean this, RecoveringHog? Yeah, it's good.
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam
at September 5, 2007 2:15 PM
darcy,
Too true, for as you know, Islam means Submission.
It's just too funny this dope thinks a dictionary definition from this year must be the answer! Der, okay...hyuck, hyuck!
DUH. They CHANGE (or update, as they like to term it) the dictionary to match the colloquialisms currently used by the populace...and how many take Latin anymore???
But I refuse to acknowledge these changes, for they are grammatically incorrect, both in English AND Latin.
(Did you follow any of that, ataa???)
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at September 5, 2007 2:16 PM
Give Robert Spencer credit, he balances things out in this very political correct world of ours.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at September 5, 2007 2:22 PM
ataa,
Please use English when you are criticizing English (NOTE: the object of your sentence is unclear - please correct). Please also use a dictionary; your brain is probably not working properly. It must be full from reading vitriolic materials.
I fixed your grammar and sytax; I hope this is helpful to you.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at September 5, 2007 2:32 PM
Robert and Hugh,
A great idea, and challenge! One of your best so far this year, and hope to see many take it by the horns, it will give somthing to all who wish , or need to know more about the dangers of islam.
Also ..
atta ;
Your words are posion, the hate you display here on this site, along with others of the followers of islam, could be the reason this site has been blocked for "hate". Perhaps that is your real reason to display your faith here, and nothing more. Consider adding to the thoughts of others, or consider what you are doing to those who are here to decide, you are doing more harm than good.
Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at September 5, 2007 2:34 PM
Ataa -
Dispense with the diversions and substantiate your accusations.
What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?
Posted by: Mike at September 5, 2007 2:35 PM
Miss_Anthrope,
The word "gonna" is in the dictionary, thus it is proper English. Neener, neener!!
Sincerely,
ataa
Posted by: Adam_Schwartz at September 5, 2007 2:38 PM
Yet another post by ataa, and yet another failure to provide any evidence for what he claims.
For being so wrong, the Islamvocates sure are scared of what he has to say. The simple thing to do it point out his errors. Yet, like ataa, they never do. So any person with half a brain logically concludes that they can't.
Isn't that right, ataa? Yes, it is.
at September 5, 2007 2:42 PM
"Discussing a game among your peers is different than writing a critique about it in a professional way. That's why newspapers hire professional critics to critique games; they do not publish critiques from any Joe, Dick and Spencer."
[Posted by ataa]
Mr/Ms ataa, you are indeed correct.
A question: please can you or anyone else tell me which qualifications are required to be a "professional critic"? Come to think of it, which qualifications are required to become a professional politician?
When do Joes, Dicks and Spencers cease to be "any" Joes, Dicks and Spencers" and become professional Joes, Dicks and Spencers? When they are paid? Or when they earn the right to append Important Acronyms to their names?
There is a slight contradiction in your approach to this debate. In your first posting, you discounted the views of Spencer because he is not "qualified" to give them.
And what do you offer as your definition of a "qualified" person? Someone who is a "professional".
As far as I am aware, Spencer is a professional writer (i.e. he writes for a living). Thus, I suspect your theory may not be entirely infallible.
On reflection, it would make for a better debate if you were to cite examples of Spencer's work which, in your opinion, incite "hate against Islam" and/or "[trashes] Muslims".
Spencer may be completely ignorant or stupid or in it for the money or he may well detest Muslims (none of which is the case, in my opinion) but you simply must - and the pun is intentional - qualify and provide evidence to support your accusations. Otherwise, you will rightly be dismissed as a troll.
at September 5, 2007 2:51 PM
There are many fronts in which to serve in Jihad. educating infidels is just one way to support the struggle for "World Peace".
Whether the Professor chooses to take up arms or fight on the Political, ecomonic, propoganda, or educational front he is just as valuable as any other Mujahadeen.
at September 5, 2007 2:59 PM
You can add Australia to that list.
Some of our universities employ Muslims to do da'awa instead of ME studies.
We have Asshats like this one here
and this one here:
Gary Bouma, a professor of sociology at Monash University, told a Muslim students’ conference that the secularist stance of universities was no longer appropriate at a time when religion played a more important role in public life. He said secularism was not a neutral stance but was itself an ideology that was inimical to religions.
These creeps even look like they hatched from the same egg.
What's needed is a comprehensive report from every University in the country. We have a right to know who aids and abets the global jihad and who employs Muhammedan agit props to spread Islam instead of free enquiry.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 5, 2007 3:03 PM
UNC Chapel Hill is an excellent university. Don't judge it by the likes of Carl Ernst and Omid Safi. Indeed, try not to judge Columbia University by the likes of Rashid Khalidi, Hamid Dabashi, Joseph Massad, and a dozen others. You should feel free to question the refusal of Columbia's President and others in the administration to recognize that the study and teaching of Islam is a very special case, an extreme case, of a problem that is found, ordinarily, in departments of literature (if the barriers to entry are low, as in Romance Language Departments, and not high, as they are in Departments of East Asian and Slavic Languages) and, to a lesser extent, history.
Surely what counts is not so much the university, which may be living off of the light-from-distant stars prestige from the past, as it is the department, and not so much the department as those faculty members in the department with whom your son or daughter may be likely to study. See what the course offerings are, what the contents as described on-line are all about. You may even be able to find syllabi, and come to think of it, that is exactly what we may do, to supplement those that are e-mailed to us for discussion and dissection.
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 3:07 PM
tgusa
In your quest to find a school, don't underestimate your influence on your son's thought processes. At some point we have to let them use their own power of reason as they filter out the garbage from what is good in their studies.
You implied that open discussion was always a norm in your home. Well, when your son sees that open discussion is not allowed in some classrooms, an alarm will go up that saying "something is wrong here." You instilled that in him, so don't be afraid to trust him to follow those values. I have two sons, so I know that is a hard thing to do. So far, they haven't given up their powers of reasoning yet. They can, and do, recognize the enemy. Good luck with your son!
at September 5, 2007 3:43 PM
Thanks I will keep that in mind tblab,
One of my favorites,
“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” Thomas Jefferson Memorial, Statue chamber inscription.
Good advice and ideas Hugh, sheik yer'mami.
Well said and agreed upon TexasInfidel.
Thanks in advance to any and all others.
at September 5, 2007 3:52 PM
Nonny said: If we follow this principle to its logical conclusion, no one should be entitled to vote; indeed, no one would be entitled to comment on anything, ever.
Sharia in a nut shell.
Posted by: walterc at September 5, 2007 3:55 PM
I have gone through Ernst's syllabus for the introductory course in some detail. My overall impression is that he is much more concerned about Islam's public image in the U.S. than he is about providing students with the primary materials and tools they'll need to understand Islam's primary texts, history, and current status in the world today. That is, he's more concerned with public relations and image management than he is about reality. He seems to want to use the introductory course to mold students perceptions of Islam, rather than, as Robert has pointed out, giving them the tools and the resources for genuine inquiry and learning.
I also get the impression that he is somewhat out of touch with Islam-related current events, and thus generally only deals with them in a brief, cursory way. Here is what he writes in his course notes about the "Flying Imams" case:
"Importance of a class like this
Pew surveys on anti-Islamic attitudes increasing in US (2003-2006); recent issues
· imams refused boarding for praying in airport"
JW readers will recognize the misleading statement there, not to mention the inaccuracy in detail. The imams were not stopped because they had been praying; nor were they literally refused boarding. In fact, they were allowed onto the plane. Multiple witnesses said that the suspicious behaviour continued while the imams were on the plane, which unsettled several different passengers. More on this story, from mainstream news sources, are archived herehere and elsewhere in the JW archives.
This story should also been seen in the light of other news stories, also covered on JW, regarding some Muslim passengers who have deliberately engaged in provocative behaviour on airplanes in order to frighten other passengers. (Not to mention, it should be seen in light of the numerous "dry runs" and the foiled terrorist attempts of some Muslims particularly in the post-9/11 era).
Ernst also writes:
"· Islam is not to be confused with, or exclusively limited to, any of the elements of Islamic tradition, including:
· any particular regime or Empire -- the rise and fall of empire has no moral meaning
· Muslim-majority-countries-plus-countries-with-significant-Muslim-minorities
· Muslim majority countries that appeal to Islamic authority (excludes Indonesia, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Tunisia, Algeria, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kirghizia, Yemen)
Qur'anic theologies
· ethical systems appealing to Muhammad
· lineages of charismatic spiritual transmission, Sufi or Shi`i
· pilgrimage to local shrines
· music, poetry, art, architecture"
http://www.unc.edu/courses/2007fall/reli/180/001/29.htm
That is a curious statement. Perhaps Ernst's students should ask him to explain what he means by it. "Ethical systems" that appeal to Muhammad are based on the Quran, not just the Hadith. For example, 7:157-158 states:
7:157: "Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.
7:158: Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all - (the messenger of) Him unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. There is no God save Him. He quickeneth and He giveth death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believeth in Allah and in His Words, and follow him that haply ye may be led aright."
Also,
4:80. "Whoso obeyeth the messenger hath obeyed Allah, and whoso turneth away: We have not sent thee as a warder over them."
But perhaps Ernst believes that the Quran and Allah are non-essential aspects of Islam?
at September 5, 2007 4:01 PM
Robert and Hugh,
A great idea, and challenge! One of your best so far this year, and hope to see many take it by the horns, it will give somthing to all who wish , or need to know more about the dangers of islam.
Also ..
atta ;
Your words are posion, the hate you display here on this site, along with others of the followers of islam, could be the reason this site has been blocked for "hate". Perhaps that is your real reason to display your faith here, and nothing more. Consider adding to the thoughts of others, or consider what you are doing to those who are here to decide, you are doing more harm than good.
Posted by: Islofob IS-1 [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 5, 2007 2:34 PM
Personally, I think his comments did MUCH good, made for an interesting and informative discussion. Perhaps NOT his intent.......
Posted by: ooddballz at September 5, 2007 4:03 PM
Atta,
Your Islamologic has truly been entertaining. You accuse Robert of being a hater without any quotes or any logic. Only some emotional gut based response. You will see that it is specifically because Robert is not a University Professor that qualifies him to make a proper analysis of this subject. All Robert does is quote Qur’anic verses and Hadith. Then illustrates his points beautifully with quotes, and actions from the Islamic world. If there is anything “hateful” it is due to the hateful nature if Islam. Now the actions of Islamists, and Islam itself is so full of hatred that any honest evaluation would mean political suicide for any Professor, which is why Robert is better on his worst day than any Professor bound by a code of political correctness that prevents any meaningful analysis of this subject.
at September 5, 2007 4:10 PM
Miss Anthrope, allow me the chance to correct Ataa's syntax and grammar.
This is what Ataa really said, "Yada yada yada blah blah blah yada blah yada blah."
Then he said, "Blah blah blah yada yada yada blah yada blah yada."
These Islamic defenders and apologists say the same thing over and over with no factual refutation of any thing Spencer and Fitzgerld say.
In the hours that Ataa has spent here stirring thing up, he has not offered anything except his own phlegm.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 4:15 PM
While acknowledging that we live in the age of the specialist, it is useful to keep in mind that one does not have to be a gastroenterologist in order to identify a turd.
Posted by: MP at September 5, 2007 4:39 PM
Karl Ernst is just a dopey hippie New Age wannabe turning out his Sufi books published by Shambala Books. I've been in the Shambala bookstore on Telegraph Ave, Berkley many times. That was years ago. Shambala is a New Age bookstore and publisher. I breezed past the Sufi books back then. Gurjieff, yoga and Buddhism were more interesting.
I have no PhD but I'm smarter than Ernst because I never fell for his false prophet. Not Ernst's New Age Sufi version, not any version
at September 5, 2007 4:52 PM
Hugh,
Regarding your comment above about those of us who have chosen to enroll in a religion/islam course -- I need 1 more either religion or philosophy and I chose "Religion and Violence from WW1 to the Present". Thus far, the professor, a Dr. of Ethics, has shown himself to be not an apologist but ignorant of the truth about islam. We haven't really gotten deeply into islam yet. The subject did come up as we covered Ghandi and Indian Home Rule. He does seem to be open minded. I will keep you posted as I will probably be seeking your advice before this is over.
at September 5, 2007 4:54 PM
Hopeless, clueless, worthless atta stinker;
Never, not once, have we heard an argument that holds water from this troll.
There is no water in the Islamic mental desert:
Pelayo is right: Islamic defenders and apologists say the same thing over and over with no factual refutation of any thing Spencer and Fitzgerld say.
'Islamologic' without reason, without understanding, but with a determination to defend the indefensible. Again, what good is literacy when it doesn't lead to knowledge?
What good is knowledge when it doesn't lead to the defence of free enquiry, but instead to spread tyranny, oppression and the glorification of terrorism?
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 5, 2007 4:58 PM
Pelayo,
Thanks...I actually believe you captured the 'essence' of his argument much more clearly than I. Perfecto!
Seriously, I usually just mock, but as an English major & former English teacher I felt linguistically compelled to teach this time.
It felt like I was back in the inner city again. Mea culpa...you can be damn sure I'll stick to mockery from now on. Scout's Honor.
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at September 5, 2007 4:59 PM
PYTHAGORAS's recommendation to Carl Ernst's class in Islamic "Civilization":
How about taking a field trip to Saudi Arabia's Chop Chop Square on a Friday night to observe the beheadings of alleged homosexuals!!
ANY TAKERS, Mr. Ernst???
Posted by: pythagoras at September 5, 2007 5:01 PM
a memo to ataa:
It certainly requires no degree in Islamic studies to note that Islam is directly responsible for the brutal murders of well over 270 million persons in lands it invaded and subsequently enslaved (human rights do NOT exist in the Koran). Given the demographics of the world 1000 years ago that amounts to unparalleled losses of human life and plundering.
No excuses will work with this. al-lah COMMANDS MUSLIMS TO SLAY THE UNBELIEVERS EVERYWHERE THEY ARE FOUND IN the Kuran. And that is what Muslims have been doing for the past 14 centuries.
AND THAT IS ALL THE REASON ANYONE NEEDS TO BE ANTI-ISLAM.
GO FIND YOURSELF A BIGGER SHOVEL!!!!!!
Posted by: pythagoras at September 5, 2007 5:14 PM
OT - RecoveringHog: It has been a while since I read much about Ghandi, but if I remeber correctly, he was indifferent regarding the outcome of WWII, not caring if Britain or Japan won. Ask your prof if this is true, and what would have happened if Ghandi had wound up dealing with a Japanese viceroy instead of Lord Mountbatten.
Posted by: MP at September 5, 2007 5:17 PM
I have a modest suggestion to fellow academics who visit here and read this far: Check your school's library holdings.
Where I teach -- a fairly large North American university of about 30,000 students with an extensive library system -- not a single Spencer title is found in the online catalogue, although your eyebrows might become unmoored at some of the titles they do stock, and in large quantities. I suspect a systematic purge, and am seeing if I can't shame them into picking up a few Spencer titles.
If we can simply ensure that these books are available in the libraries of all North American universities -- and in the bookstores -- that would be significant progress, I think.
Posted by: Archimedes2 at September 5, 2007 5:25 PM
Show him the websites run by those who were born into, raised within, Islam and have left it: www.faithfreedom.org is a good place to start, and www.answering-islam.org. One site will lead to many others, one witness-to-Islam to others. Perhaps make him aware of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's "Infidel" (which is on the syllabus I composed), and Ibn Warraq's "Why I Am Not a Muslim" (which is not). Go to it, but sweetly, and pian piano.
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 5:25 PM
I'm a student at Emily Dickinson College and here are my Islamic Studies course books:
"The Islamic Struggle Against Western Imperialism" by G. Hadd
"Zionism and The Rise of Modern Terrorism" by Dufus Dimmie
"The Role of Women in Islamic Culture" by Edmund Burka
"Western Colonialism and Islamic Liberation Movements" by O.B.Laden
"The Zionist Threat to Iranian Nuclear Development" by Mahmoud Ahmedinejad
"Christianity, Republicans and the Fascist Threat to Palestine" by Hamm Ass
Please let me know if you think these sound useful. Thx.
at September 5, 2007 5:37 PM
The University of Michigan greatly disappointed me as an alum when they recently spent $25K to build two "foot-washing" stations on their Dearborn campus. And where was the ACLU on that one? Imagine the student demonstrations if they put up a Christmas tree...fortunately many of the real crazy tenured profs are starting to die off from Hep C and the like.
Much of my reading on this subject has led me to one conviction and one dilemma.
First, this conviction: Islam is a cancer to free society and must be banned as seditious. And please don't tell me the 1st Amendment protects speech that would abolish it. Sorry about it, but we can't have a bunch of little jihadists hiding a knife behind their mothers' skirts. Get out.
Second, how do we get rid of the militant jihadists while sparing those, and I believe there are many, who are Muslim because they were born into it, it is all they know, and are deathly intimidated to separate themselves from it. To put it simply: Muslims can stay, but Islam cannot. How do we manage that? Can we?
I think the following article written by Salman Rushdie just two months after 9/11 speaks eloquently on this matter--pointing out the evil of Islamism without apology while illustrating the plight of the millions of people who find themselves ensnared in a "religion" they really never chose.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/rushdie/yes_its_about_islam.htm
at September 5, 2007 5:39 PM
Ask I asked aata previously:
What degree did Mohammad have?
And how did he get the right to start a religion?
Did he attend the Mecca University of Comparative Religion?
Did he gat a PhD in Eschatological Exegesis?
I thought he was illiterate.
What right did he have to claim to be able to compose a book if he couldn't even read it?
How did he know those who wrote it down for him were accurate?
How did the Caliph who collected and thereby made the "orthodox" Koran get Mohammad's approval, when Mohammad was already long dead?
Your fallacious reasoning looks like the scholastic equivalent of Swiss cheese.
Posted by: profitsbeard at September 5, 2007 5:47 PM
That reminds me...we should buy the islamists more mirrors...they desperately need to look in one.
LOL
at September 5, 2007 6:01 PM
Hugh,
The only book on the syllabus is Malcom X's autobiography. Everything else is self researched: Manifest Destiny, Just War Theory, Islam, U.S. Civil rights movement among other topics.
at September 5, 2007 6:05 PM
"Hugh (a.k.a. Spencer..."
-- from the madman above
Listen, Buster, here's what you do. You go over to another site: www.newenglishreview.org. Now look at everything put up there, that is NOT about Islam, that has nothing to do with Islam, that is offered up by Hugh Fitzgerald -- you can click on Authors, and then scroll down to your little heart's content.
For example, kindly note the Presidential campaign that Hugh Fitzgerald, dont on parle, is involved in at the moment. The campaign is quietly intorduced on September 1 by means of a wordless posting -- "Cometh the Man, Cometh the Hour" -- which offers a link to a piece of music, "Heartaches" as whistled by the celebrated Elmo Tanner. For it is Elmo Tanner who, because he was such a whistler, turns out to be the Perfect Candidate for this new age that has come upon us, the age of Whistling In the Dark (about Islam, about global warming, about mass education, about everything).
There are another dozen items put up so far about the Elmo Tanner for President Campaign, and many offer apt musical accompaniments to the stages of the crossing guards at the railroad stops along the way. The Whistling-in-the-Dark Whistletop Express started in Miami and has now gotten as far as Dallas, and tonight it will be on the move again. Millions of peoplehave been swept up in the excitement of the campaign. Yet many of those postings were put upat the exact same moment, I am sure, that Robert Spencer was on the radio with someone somewhere, trying to explain the rudiments of Jihad and dhimmitude.
After you have done all that, see if you dare to claim that Spencer and I could conceivably be one and the same.
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 6:11 PM
@ataa
why would any sane person choose to become a mohammad worshipper like you?
you are obviously under the influence of SATAN and a most grievous end awaits you.
the only muhammadan converts I have ever known are in jail, on bail or fugitives.
its a disgusting, hate-filled cult that only appeals to people who want unlimited sex and want to steal and commit violence.
feh! ptui!
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 5, 2007 6:33 PM
Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 510, pp. 478-479; book 61
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) ..." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. ..."
at September 5, 2007 6:36 PM
Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61
Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab:
I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listen to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Surat which I heard you reciting ?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me". I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle taught it to me in a different way from yours". So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!". On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him (Umar) recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way", and added, "Recite, O Umar", I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you."
at September 5, 2007 6:38 PM
Things are getting much too far off topic here.
How 'bout them syllabi?
Posted by: MarisolJW at September 5, 2007 7:43 PM
No Ataa, I proved uthman copy edited mohammad and his so called "god" Had Mohammad been a real prophet , he would have come with the same message he didnt, He came with a message of murder and conquest.He does not
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
at September 5, 2007 7:54 PM
Marisol has more than a point. Revenons a nos moutons -- certainly as long as it isn't Eid al-Fitr.
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 7:58 PM
jcom972, Muslims don't have reflections in mirrors.
Champ, Please stop trying to build a pulpit on JW/DW. Can we stipulate one thing and forget trying to convert those who will not be converted. Let's agree on this: The existence of any sort of god cannot be proven. Everyone relies on faith. The mere fact that life exists on Earth is not proof. We may very will be just one remote cosmic accident.
I will say this, every time a Christian or Jew is murdered by a Muslim, I wonder what Jehovah is doing. Everytime someone like C. Ernst spews his ignorance, I wonder where Jehovah is.
Posted by: Pelayo at September 5, 2007 8:14 PM
If this goes on any more, all comments will be ended. And every comment that is not on point here, unless otherwisee redeemed by some unusual quality, and certainly these theological arguments, are best erased. There may well be students, or teachers, intrigued by the idea of sending syllabuses, or syllabi, or if you happen to be in shoving distance of either Carfax or Petty Cury Lane, possibly syllabubs. They will simply be put off by the kind of stuff that some think -- wrongly -- they can continue to put here with impunity.
Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2007 8:33 PM
Don't have a syllabus to contribute, but I do know from first-hand experience that bringing a different conceptual framework into a classroom is akin to being the skunk at the garden party. I remember being told by a professor that the people whose interpretive framework I was using to explicate an ancient text were "bad people" and that I should stick to the approved post-modernist interpretation gurus. Never mind that I'd already read, assimilated and transcended the post-modern viewpoint (that was a year to remember!).
Having gone all the way to Ph.D.-dom, I can say that in a lot of instances in the humanities, it is most decidely not a requirement to critique another Ph.D. The humanities is definitely a place (maybe the last place?), where the amateur can go toe-to-toe against the professional. I think the more daunting challenge for the amateur is to work up the "amor" for the increasingly narrow topics addressed by the professional!
For me, I know Spenser is right about Islam because the things he says about their ideology are the very things they say to each other when they think they aren't being watched, across the board. The British undercover camera program about what was said in mosques showed that beyond a reasonable doubt.
Anyone who is practicing apologetics for Islam is, ipso facto, wrong and I don't care if a third-grader is the one pointing it out. Muslims should be on their knees thanking Westerners for figuring out the world and doing all of the hard work for them of moving humanity to an intellectual place where we can finally give up superstitions like Allah.
Posted by: venividivici at September 5, 2007 8:49 PM
Dear Mr. Ataa,
I saw you started entering this thread of comparing Mr. Spencer with Goebbels, the head of the nazi propaganda team.
your quote: "Spencer has learned from Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propagandist."
Did you ever hear about Godwin's Law?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
It seems to me, my dear sir, that you are using the lowest of arguments any intelligent being can ever use.
However the irony (wasn't the Grand Mufti of Palestine a great admirer of Adolf Hitler and a great friend of Eichmann) maybe your remark was inspired by pure ignorance and you can be forgiven for that, but that would make your stance on the knowledge of Islam a little bit weak.
On the other hand, in the defence of Mr. Spencer, why do you accuse him of hatred?
As I know he only quotes from original Islamic texts, unless you prove me wrong, showing a clear hatred against Judeo-Christian values (cf. the numerous citations in the Quran involving apes and pigs and "people of the book").
But I could be wrong, and mean mossad zionists always sold Mr. Spencer a wrong, tampered copy of the original Islamic writings, where, for instance the fact that the Prophet (MPBUM) married a 16 year old girl, where they maliciously made the 1 dissapear, as to make believe the Prophet (MPBUM) married a 6 year old girl. Those pesky joooooosss!!!!!
I also could be wrong and Mr. Spencer was sold a falsified copy of the Ahadith where Mohammed (MPBUH) beheaded 800 unarmed Jews, where in fact he just gave them an (admittedly short) haircut.
Those pesky Jews can really make a mess out of translations from the original Arabic texts, can't they?
I also could be wrong and Mr. Spencer was sold a falsified copy of Islamic history writings where the Islam army in 732 came to Poitiers to plunder villages and churches, but in fact they came to distribute candies and virgins. What liars those pesky Joooooooos and Christians!!!!
I can understand your disgust against 1400 years of falsication of history depicting a Religion of Peace in such a bad manner!
BTW, I have an Arabic manuscript of the 12th century describing the second law of thermodynamics, but I can't find a translator, can you help me?
Posted by: karelmartel at September 5, 2007 9:36 PM
@ataa ataa
You are so tiresome because you are not hear to learn or understand the real threat to mankind. You are here to post what is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke readers, and change the subject of the thread. We were talking about informing students taking courses in Islam from professors that are more image protectors that educators.
You wanted a verse were Jesus says he is God. Here it is. Although you'll propably change the subject to another topic or something else to continue to not answer the question we posted you. That is what trolls do.
Matt 14:61-62
Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven."
مات 14:61-62
ثم ارتفاع كاهن سألته "هل انت المسيح ابن الله المباركه؟" يسوع قال : "انا ، وسترون لي ابن رجل يجلس في الله حق اليد في مكان السلطة ويعودون على سحب السماء".
I not post to the troll again on any thread.
Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at September 5, 2007 9:50 PM
It’s not that bad Abrog8,
Over the summer my boy read some Kant, Nietzsche, Descartes, Hume, he read the Commie Manifesto and found it lacking the Five People You Meet in Heaven and found it a good read. Oh and the latest JK Rowling offering as well, he’s read them all and even though he is growing beyond that stuff he figured he might as well read that one too. Some he was assigned some he picked himself, so there are still many out there that can read and comprehend, both at the same time no less! I gave him Robert Spencers new book, he has a lot of questions about the differences in religion these days. He has not read it yet but he will, the title alone (Religion of Peace?) is too much for him to resist not cracking it open and finding out just what is inside. He won’t be needing anyone to screen Obsession for him as I have done that already and I dvr’d it so we could discuss it as it went along w/o misunderstanderating anything.
Jcom is right, never waste your time wasting time. Believe it or not Yogi Berra never said that.
at September 5, 2007 10:02 PM
"A college degree is no guarantee its owner is not an idiot." R. J. Ross
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Everyone should believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink." W. C. Fields
Posted by: USBeast at September 5, 2007 10:10 PM
I think this is a great idea. Hugh and Robert: Would you rather people used the contact form for JW to send the syllabi or put a link here or what? Maybe there would be some special e-mail address for it, and/or even a PO box for people who don't want to retype a physical syllabus but could photocopy it. Make it as easy and obvious as possible for the students.
Posted by: Lydia at September 5, 2007 10:12 PM
Back on track here. I've actually had debates with many people on the subject of Islam. Most are severly undereducated on the subject, so I have been there to educate and provoke thought. I have had some violent encounters in my debates. One time I had a liberal actually physically assult one of Roberts book. It was this in lieu of actually having a rebuttal to my arguements. The point is that the left is so entrenched in thier multi-culti dogma that it is almost impossible to have rational debates with them on this subject. Honestly all I have to do sometimes is quote Islamists, then quote scripture and Hadith, and the lefities go crazy. Ironically not at the Islamofascists, but at me for bringing it up! I dare any proffesor of Middle Eastern studies to have a class that critiques media from the Islamic world. Go to MEMRI find videos watch them, see what they say and have rational discussions about what they say, why they say it and what it all means for us. Honesty you in the Universities could never do this due to the fact that even the normal everyday thought that is spewing out of the Middle East is so vile, that you could never even repeat what they are, when you are on campus.
Posted by: Ameriki at September 5, 2007 10:12 PM
Its quite amusing to see the faith you'll seem to have in the young american generation. The commenters generally feel that the current generation wont be able to decide for themselves , wont be able to look at multiple viewpoints , wont be able to distinguish between logical fallacies and valid points,
without someone (Mr Ernst or Mr Spencer) spelling it out to them by giving them a recommended reading list.
I'd be more worried that the youth cant think for themselves.
at September 5, 2007 10:21 PM
@cerebate
I don't sell the students today short. I do have a problem when they don't hear different POV because of the lack of professionalism by the educators in many schools. I think kids can think for themselves but sadly they are not being taught that in many schools. I am speaking of the liberal schools primarily. Now I hope I am not starting a flame war that was not my intent.
Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at September 5, 2007 10:57 PM
Im.mad.as.HELL
Offtopic
The verse from the bible that you quote says Jesus is the messiah, the son of god, and sits at his right hand side.
Im not quite sure how this quote then demonstrates that Jesus IS God.
(Yes I am aware of the trinity, my point is that your quote doesnt demonstrate that jesus is god)
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