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The overlooked aspect of Osama's latest video. From FrontPage (news links in the original):
"I invite you to embrace Islam,” says Osama bin Laden in his latest videotape. Most analysts take this as pious window-dressing and focus on what they believe to be the more substantive points of his message: his comments on the war in Iraq, his critique of capitalism, the similarity of much of what he says to Democratic Party talking points, and the like. But in fact the invitation to Islam is the heart, and the most revealing aspect, of bin Laden’s entire statement.The chief reason for this, of course, is because in traditional Islamic law, the invitation to Islam must precede an attack on non-Muslims. The Islamic prophet Muhammad makes this clear, directing Muslims to issue this invitation first, and if the unbelievers refuse, to invite them to enter the Islamic social order as second-class dhimmis, and if they refuse both, to go to war with them:
Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them....If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya [the poll tax on non-Muslims]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294)
Is, then, a major attack imminent? There are numerous indications of that – suggesting that one of the primary audiences, at least for this part of Osama’s message, is the Islamic world. If such an attack comes, Osama has by means of this videotape attempted to forestall criticism by Muslims, and has laid claim to Islamic legitimacy for Al-Qaeda’s actions.But there is also a still wider significance to Osama’s invitation to Islam. He offers in this videotape a cultural critique of the Judeo-Christian West. This critique doesn’t focus on the exportation of its immoral pop culture, which some think is the primary, if not sole, grievance of the Islamic world against the West; Osama doesn’t mention that at all here. Rather, he concentrates on its religion: “You believe with absolute certainty that you believe in Allah, and you are full of conviction of this belief, so much that you have written this belief of yours on your dollar. But the truth is that you are mistaken in this belief of yours.”
Why? He lists two reasons: “you associate others with Him in your beliefs and separate state from religion.” Both of these criticisms focus on Christianity: Islam regards the divinity of Christ as an unacceptable and polytheistic association of a partner with God, and rejects the sacred/secular distinction that is ultimately derived from Christ’s directive to “render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21). Bin Laden charges the West with “manifest polytheism,” criticizing its making laws “in contradiction to [Allah’s] Law and methodology.” This is an integral part of his invitation to Islam: since Islam is a political and social system as well as a religious faith, to accept it is not merely to change one’s religious affiliation: it would fundamentally alter the nature of Western society.
The call to implement Islamic Sharia law in its fullness as an antidote to the ills of society is resonating throughout the Islamic world, with severe challenges to relatively secular regimes being mounted recently in Malaysia, Turkey, and Pakistan. Jihadists base their appeal in the Islamic world on the purity of their Islam, and on the proposition that obedience to Allah brings worldly success, as Osama says: “And our holding firm to this magnificent Book is the secret of our strength and winning of the war against you despite the fewness of our numbers and materiel.”
Six years after 9/11, and a year and a half after Donald Rumsfeld observed that “We need to find ways to win the ideological battle as well,” the jihadists’ ideological challenge is not being answered adequately. Osama’s challenge to Christianity and advocacy of Sharia is an opportunity for Western leaders to stress the aspects of Judeo-Christian civilization that Sharia law denies: notably the equality of dignity of men and women and the freedom of conscience. But no Western leader will do this, because it would contradict the multiculturalist dogma that no civilization or culture has any virtues that any others do not possess. The centrality of the jihadists’ cultural challenge to the West, and Western unwillingness to respond to this challenge, is a chief theme of my book Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, but it is getting little attention elsewhere; even conservative media figures are hesitant to discuss the cultural conflict. The ideological challenge that the jihadists are making to the West remains the single most misunderstood aspect of the war on terror. As Osama invites us once again to accept Islam, probably very few Americans would be able to articulate why they wouldn’t want to accept the invitation, and yet talk of Sharia and how it contradicts basic Western understandings of human rights remain taboo.
As Al-Qaeda attempts to follow up on Osama’s invitation, and Europe becomes increasingly riven by strife between Muslims and non-Muslims, it will become clearer why we ignore this aspect of the jihadist challenge at our own peril.
Posted by Robert at September 10, 2007 1:40 PM
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This is great Robert!
There´s great benefit from this way of analysing the things islamist are saying. To take their statements and point out from where in islamic teaching, the hadith, sira and so on, where it comes from. It´s like getting a map of islamic thinking and a good reading tips.
We all benefit from this, and it´s a easy way to show a freind who´s not that well versed in islam yet, what Osama and his likes are talking about.
Many thanks!
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at September 10, 2007 2:09 PM
Most Jihad Watchers picked up on the invitation and realized what it meant. Mr Spencer you are a great educator. Why can't the talking heads who haunt the MSM know this?
Posted by: Pelayo at September 10, 2007 2:20 PM
I just watched the Business-School Presentation by Petraeus -- charts, graphs, statistics -- and then the fantasy by Crocker in his first or second sentence, about believing in the possibility of a "free, stable, democratic Iraq" at peace with itself and "its neighbors," and then decided to check into JW and found Robert Spencer's sober prescription for a dose of reality.
Here, in the same spirit, is what one would like to see asked of General Petraeus, but that, alas, he will not be asked, and so will have no need to answer:
Q. General Petraeus, the population of Iraq is, with the current flight of the Christians, now about 98% Muslim, isn't that correct?
A.: I'd have to check my figures, but that sounds about right.
Q.: So it might be helpful to find out what Islam is all about, isn't that right?
A.: Yes sir.
Q.: General Petraeus, isn't it true that Muslims are deeply attached to their faith, and that that faith offers them a complete regulation of their lives, tells them what to do, what they must not do, and how they must regard art, science, democracy, everything?
A.: I'm not sure about that, but I'll take your word for it.
Q.: General, have you read the Qur'an?
A.: Well, not entirely sir, no. Parts of it, yes.
Q.: Do you remember which parts, exactly?
A.: No, sir. I'd have to get back to you on that.
Q.: General, I wonder if you could tell us if you have read any of the Hadith?
A.: Sorry -- could you repeat that question?
Q.: Yes. I'm wondering if you could tell us if you have read any of the Hadith?
A.: No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't, but I'll be happy to do so, or possibly one of my aides, the very talented colonels who work with me, have done so and could fill me in.
Q.: No, General, I think you really should read these -- a few hundred would do, and don't worry, they are not something you need to memorize, you merely need to get the flavor -- yourself.
A.: Fine. I'll be happy to do so while I am in Washington.
Q.: General, do you know much about Muhammad?
A.: I know that he is considered to be the prophet of Islam, sir. For Muslims he is like Jesus.
Q.: Is he? Is he like Jesus, General?
A.: I couldn't really comment on that without knowing a bit more, sir.
Q.: Did you know, General Petraeus, that for Muslims he is the Model of Conduct, uswa hasana, the Perfect Man, al-insan al-kamil?
A.: No, I didn't know that. But I'll have my staff look into it.
Q.: Would it surprise you to learn that Muhammad, the model of the Perfect Man, is a very different figure from Jesus, General?
A.: Well, I'm not one of those people who thinks that all religions are exactly the same. I understand there are differences. But still, I think that there are far more similarities between religions, between Islam and Christianity, because it stands to reason that the kind of consolation and explanation people seek, all over the world, would be more or less the same.
Q.: Are you quite sure of that, General?
A.: No, I'm not. And I will talk to my staff, and i'll be sure to get back to you on this.
Q.: General, that's all for now. There will be more questions just as soon as we remove those people, screaming their heads off, and so un-pretty in pink, from the back of the room.
at September 10, 2007 2:23 PM
I was just watching the news unfolding in Berlin about the attempted, islamic bombings in Germany and have a question.
"Where are all these ALLEGED, moderate, peaceful, democratic, lawabiding MUSLIMS that still have to turn in other muslims that want to attack a western target"?
Where are the muslims working with our govts helping us catch other muslims trying to kill us and destroy our lives?
Where are the MASSIVE islamic, street demonstrations protesting against islamic violence against NON-MUSLIMS?!?!?!?
Where is this alleged outrage all the MODERATE muslims always claiming to have when we are attacked??
Where are the muslims that wish to sign the FATWA against Osama as he is a declared terrorist?
There are none.
The islamic reaction is overwhelming silence in regards to this terrorist group trying to incinerate hundreds of civilians.
Where is CAIR on this issue?
They could CAIR-LESS about America and all other free nations not burdened by the poison of islam.
ALL muslims are GUILTY until proven innocent.
DEPORT all muslims today and outlaw islam.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at September 10, 2007 2:29 PM
Even Tom Friedman of The New Duranty Times has figured out that democracy without liberty is a tyranny of the majority. Friedman "splained" it all to the NYT readers in yesterday's op-ed--he got it from reading a "good friend's" book while flying around the Mid-East on his latest news gathering junket--that what the muhammadans in Iraq want is NOT liberty, but adherence to Islam.
So simple. So simple that the light bulb went on even in Tom Friedman's head.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 10, 2007 2:34 PM
Although I think we are aware of Robert's point,
he IS nonetheless correct...
Ideology
Obstacle #1, 2, 3, 4, & 5 are simple:
political correctness
Until we purge that, by force if necessary (as it just may be) for the survival of our entire people, this major item will never be dealt with effectively.
Purge political correctness and all its brownshirts from any effectiveness and the rest of the problem gets a whole lot easier to deal with.
Until then, everything else is just meaningless banter.
Posted by: jcom972 at September 10, 2007 2:39 PM
"...you associate others with Him in your beliefs"
--obl
Listen up,obl, you blaspheming bastard of allah:
We certainly do associate Jesus with God!
And you shameless muhammadan murderers and blasphemers associate the fiend muhammad with God. you muhammadans worhsip a pedophile, murderer, rapist, hate-filled fiend!
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 10, 2007 2:43 PM
Hungarian Crusader:
Amen, brother.
What we have to get through our thick PC heads is that the acts of LYING and DECEPTION in regards to the infidels (all of us!) are an integral part of their "religion." No "peaceful" Muslim is to be believed in regards to what they say. Only action is relevant in this case, and there is NONE. The "peaceful" Muslims should be seen as puppets. They dance on the string exactly as they are told to..."Okay, Muhammad, you go tell the press how peaceful and beautiful Islam is, while me, Mohammed and Mohammed go blow up those little white children...ready, BREAK!"
Outlaw Islam. Pure sedition.
Posted by: JohnAdams at September 10, 2007 2:55 PM
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO POST THIS ANNOUNCEMENT AT OTHER WEBSITES
The U.S. Senate Project (an initiative to increase congressional awareness of the nature and goals of jihad) currently has 78 volunteers in 38 states.
WE ARE STILL SEEKING ADDITIONAL CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS FROM ALL 50 STATES, ESPECIALLY THE FOLLOWING 13:
Connecticut
Delaware
Hawaii
Kansas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Montana
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming
The Project: We're looking for people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase, from Amazon or any other source, a copy of Robert Spencer's Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't and mail it, on an agreed upon date, to one of the senators in your state. We want to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message. If we get more than two people per state, books can also be sent to the U.S. House of Representatives.
If you’d like to be involved, please write to me at traehnam@yahoo.com under the subject heading “Senate,” and tell me the state your senator represents, an email address where I can reach you, and a nickname. No need for your real name. And I will never share your email address with anyone, not even with other volunteers for this project.
And visit www.jihadawareness.blogspot.com to get more info on this project and to leave comments other volunteers can read. You can also see there the growing list of participants in this project, and the states their senators represent. I've also designed a graphic that might amuse. Scroll down when you get to the site.
Once we have at least two people from every state, we can agree on a mailing date and then each of us can mail a copy of the book on that date.
Right before each of us mails the book, we can issue a press release to various media outlets in every state, and in that way announce and explain the mailing. And perhaps we can come up with some other ways of maximizing the effectiveness of this project and gaining as much positive attention as possible.
One of the project's volunteers suggested contacting Rep. Sue Myrick, who started the Anti-Jihad Caucus in Congress. I'll try to coordinate this project with Rep. Myrick to maximize its effectiveness. I've also been calling various congressional offices to get advice on how best to go about the project.
Posted by: traeh at September 10, 2007 2:56 PM
Ynkedoodl2:
Utterly correct. Islamic people would not even save themselves, so why do we insist on trying to save them in Iraq? Pull out and let them slaughter themselves. It is the only thing they are good at, and they will do the job for us much more efficiently.
at September 10, 2007 3:01 PM
The Democrats have tried to condemn General Petraeus even before his speech. They have even rejected his speech which they don't know what it contains.
On the otherhand, the Democrats do not condemn Osama Bin Laden and they have no problem with his speech. Osama does condemn the Democrats for not doing thier job in helping him in getting the American troops out of Iraq.
Maybe the Democrats would feel better if Osama presented to Congress General Petraeus's speech. The Democrats believe Osama.
Posted by: alaskan1000 at September 10, 2007 3:02 PM
I still have the question of does dyeing his beard mean that he may be actively participating in this operation? Can you dye your beard and hair if you are not an active participant?
Posted by: hoosiernorm at September 10, 2007 3:03 PM
hoosiernorm:
No, O-Bomb-a is not going to take part. That pig-faced coward won't come out of his hole to take a piss. Somehow it is always somebody else who is called to do the rough stuff. They strap bombs on their own children.
at September 10, 2007 3:13 PM
The world's odds-on favorite mass murderer, Ousamah bin Looney Tunes, is beginning to sound more and more like a member of the present US Democratic party with each passing day...
However, I couldn't help noticing that this speech of bin Looney Tunes' included references to Islam's long-approved practice of massacring non-Muslims (to be used now and in the future, says he, to kill Americans who reject Islam) AND claims that Islam actually protects Christians and Jews. Now, obviously, Islam isn't both things. Either Islam practices homicide against non-Muslims or it doesn't. Since as we all know Islam DOES indeed institutionalize the committing of first degree murder of "unbelievers" and always has, Islam obviously is NO protector of Christians and Jews or ever will be. In fact, Islam is responsible for the killing of over FIFTY MILLION CHRISTIANS IN THE 20th CENTURY ALONE ("moderate" Indonesians in 1965 massacred about one million Christians). Such deceptive talk as provided in this speech by Ousamah bin Laden is typical of Islam's taqiyya strategy and is also typical of Islam's characteristic disconnect with reality.
As for "embracing Islam" (I'd rather embrace a king cobra myrself!) notice how nauseatingly rotten our 'friend' Ousamah bin Looney Tunes is looking these days!
The moral of the "embracing Islam" story: If you wanna look like a rotten baked potato jacket 16 million years old while still in your forties go for it and embrace Islam! YOU TOO CAN LOOK LIKE Ousamah bin Loonigans himself!!!!
Posted by: pythagoras at September 10, 2007 3:25 PM
Robert, your observations on the idiological challenge of the Jihadis and the lack of a response defending Judeo-Christian and the West's values is dead on. Unless our so called leaders throw-off the shackles of multicultural idiocy and address these issues head on, it will be impossible to mount an effective defense and rally the non-Muslim world to defend it's freedom.
Much of this refusal to defend our values and attack Sharia is the persistent lie peddled by our leaders, from GW Bush on down, that Islam is a religion of peace and people like Bin-Laden are a tiny monority of extremists. As long as this myth is widely believed, it's unlikely that outside of websites and blogs like this one, anyone will respond.
We have rise up and defend our values, and proclaim to the heavens their superiority to Islamic values.
Posted by: Proud Infidel at September 10, 2007 3:31 PM
"Is, then, a major attack imminent?"....from headline.
Yes, of course it is; and since they didn't succeed in bringing down the White House on 9/11, then I believe that the terrorists are committed to doing it right the next time -- and the Pentagon too.
They failed to bring down the Twin Towers the first time -- so this is why I think that they are determined to destroy the White House in the future; and then they'll probably build some god-awful Mosque looking thing in it's place.
The White House isn't their only target, but I truly believe that it's high on their list of prospects because failing is not part of their vocabulary.
Posted by: champ at September 10, 2007 3:38 PM
The Democrats have tried to condemn General Petraeus even before his speech. They have even rejected his speech which they don't know what it contains.
posted by: alaskan1000
Never forget:
The best friend that Osama Bin Laden ever had--EVER--is the Republican George Almighty Bush.
Obl said his goal was to bankrupt the USA.
George Bush went far beyond OBL's wildest fantasies!
The Republicans are still feeding the USA bullshit that this idiotic venture in Iraq could possibly have something called "victory" at the end of it. If you KNOW anything about the muhammadans, (and especially Arab muhammadans) you realize that a secular tyranny or a theocracy is ALL YOU CAN HOPE FOR!!!!!
You do realize that, don't you?
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 10, 2007 3:41 PM
hoosiernorm, JohnAdams,
how about this...(your takes brought up something I long suspected, especially after this recent tape of his)...
Your takes are pretty accurate...he is the chickenshit even the doc who was at tora bora (now Gitmo) admitted to, it's all about him, he couldn't care less about his followers...much like hitler in his ill-fated 1923 putsch...
...his ramblings bear all the marks of adam gadahn and his anti-western kook-fringe stupidity he had ingrained before he even left the US, but that's less important...
How about this possibility...
He's either a stuffed doll now, or close to death (his medical signs/behavior suggest serious deficiencies)...hs counted on being some worldwide hero hailed in muslim cities at his whim, he didn't count on being in his shithole 6 years from 9/11... he moves constantly, causing even more medical distress, and things are deteriorating faster than he can control them...both his movement and his condition...
remember, there's nothing more fearsome than a wounded animal that's cornered...
This could very well be his last hurrah, not unlike 1944's "wacht am rhein" (battle of the bulge). When you're spent, despite the rabid hatred, you've nothing left to lose...so what's left?
I've no doubt he's in a last hurrah of sorts, but not to limit this to a laugh...I still think this is a prelude to some attack attempt...like going out with a bang(?).
Thoughts?
Posted by: jcom972 at September 10, 2007 3:43 PM
OT. Is CAIR's website down? For good maybe?
Posted by: nyone at September 10, 2007 4:33 PM
Robert: precisely so. The call to convert to islam is requisite before any attack on non believers can take place. This behavior offers the jihadists the excuse they need to shed blood, namely, "we gave you a chance but you refused".
I don't know if you've seen this story, but a billion dollars in put options have been placed on NYSE which call for a 50 per cent drop in the s and p index by Sept 21. I believe they will hit us again, soon. I exited the stock market last week. See www.homelandsecurityus.com, click on U.S. news, the story was posted on Aug 27.
at September 10, 2007 4:40 PM
Q.: General, that's all for now. There will be more questions just as soon as we remove those people, screaming their heads off, and so un-pretty in pink, from the back of the room. Posted by: HughQ: General, I gather that one of our stated objectives is to prevent a full scale civil war between Shia and Sunnis?
at September 10, 2007 5:08 PM
Ummm, palm,
(yes I found it), a billion dollars isn't a lot of money in average days' trading, especially considering one day's transactions can total at least several hundred billion a day, even a trillion isn't unusual in one day's trading (stocks, commodities, & all the others combined)...
...but yes, it would be some cause for concern.
If there's significance to it, I would suggest they find specific areas where those puts were placed (much like was done with United & American Airlines on or about August 27, 2001, in unusually strong activity) , as they were on 9/11-that would be a HUGE clue where they're going to strike.
I trade options in commodity markets all the time, so I'm keepin' an eye out...especially in critical commodities...I mean above and beyond even reasonable precautionary expectations-like when folks worry and buy, say, 1,000,000 options vs normal 100,000-500,000...and suddenly you see a surge much higher-yep, something's up). If a surge in crude oil calls, RBOB, Natural gas, etc...watch out...ya know they're goin for the fields, pipelines, refineries, etc.
Also watch the spreads vs cash price...if it narrows dramatically & unexpectedly...*red alert*
If the BS flies with iran...keep an eye on some small cap ones like KDKN & FXPE- they'd be 10-baggers in 3 years max.
Ok, sorry...got a little carried away, lol.
at September 10, 2007 5:32 PM
n.a. palm, you said:
I don't know if you've seen this story, but a billion dollars in put options have been placed on NYSE which call for a 50 per cent drop in the s and p index by Sept 21. I believe they will hit us again, soon. I exited the stock market last week. See www.homelandsecurityus.com, click on U.S. news, the story was posted on Aug 27.
I went there, n.a. palm, but I couldn't find anything about put options. This is what I saw:
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/usnews?page=1/DOJISNA082707
Where did you see the story about a billion in put options?
Posted by: traeh at September 10, 2007 5:33 PM
do not kill the children
Beslan.
Bombs planted in a children's school. They must have been fighting against Allah.
at September 10, 2007 5:36 PM
it's on the second page...go to bottom and click "next"...it's 2/3s of the way down page.
Posted by: jcom972 at September 10, 2007 5:36 PM
Oh, brother. THERE IS NO "ALLAH" YOU STUPID DUPED-BY-PSYCHOPATH-MOHAMMED OSAMA! YOU DUMB SH--! THERE - DO YOU GET IT?????
"allah" is a pre-Islamic rock idol. A ROCK! A PAGAN LUNAR DEITY! GET OVER IT! MY GOD YOU ARE SO DUMB IT DEFIES BELIEF!
Posted by: darcy at September 10, 2007 5:47 PM
it's on the second page...go to bottom and click "next"...it's 2/3s of the way down page.
Posted by: jcom972 at September 10, 2007 5:58 PM
re the puts
whomever's trade that is has balls!! I would tend to think he's hedged it, anyone that makes a trade that big should be smart enough to figure that one out. We shall see...begs the question that if the market does drop 50% in the next 10 days will he get paid out? And if he does, what will the value of the USD be?
If anything is going to bring the market down it's the credit crunch. I can't believe these subprime mortgage lenders are "surprised" that people aren't able to repay. I called that one long ago....
Posted by: gymgal at September 10, 2007 6:03 PM
n.a. palm, you said:
I don't know if you've seen this story, but a billion dollars in put options have been placed on NYSE which call for a 50 per cent drop in the s and p index by Sept 21. I believe they will hit us again, soon. I exited the stock market last week.
Here's an article explaining the source of the so-called "Bin Laden options trade" (there were also a lot of call options, by the way). The trade is part of something called a "box spread", and apparently has nothing at all to do with anyone expecting a market crash.
...Dan Perper, a Partner at Peak 6, one of the largest option market makers and proprietary trading firms, has confirmed that the trades are part of a "box-spread trade." "This was done as a package in which the box spread was used [as a] means of alternative financing at more attractive interest rates" explained Perper.
So Perper has acknowledged that Peak 6 is the source of the trade in question. The article explains in more detail the purpose of the "box-spread." Before Perper came forward to take responsibility for the trade, another analyst had already speculated that the source of the billion in put and call options could be a box-trade, not some expectation of disaster.
at September 10, 2007 6:43 PM
"Q.: Is he? Is he like Jesus, General?"
Posted by: Hugh
Brilliant!
Posted by: Josephine at September 10, 2007 6:46 PM
Wow, It really takes a learned academic like Robert to point out to you'll that Osama is planning an attack?
Posted by: cerebate at September 10, 2007 7:29 PM
Findland news
http://tundratabloid.blogspot.com/2007/09/finlands-first-islamic-party-intends-to.html
Posted by: Borg at September 10, 2007 7:36 PM
Finland news
http://tundratabloid.blogspot.com/2007/09/finlands-first-islamic-party-intends-to.html
Posted by: Borg at September 10, 2007 7:36 PM
Finland news
http://tundratabloid.blogspot.com/2007/09/finlands-first-islamic-party-intends-to.html
Posted by: Borg at September 10, 2007 7:37 PM
OK, so we understand that this is an official, Islamic invitation: "accept Allah or we'll feel free to force you into submission".
Now, what is the proper response so that Osama or any other Arabic/Islamic apologist will understand with no misconceptions? We want to let them know "message received" and also "Nuts! No way; Islam is incompatible with Western beliefs and civilization".
Do we need to compare & contrast the "war-god" of the Old Testament ('slay every one which pisseth against the wall' being descriptive of God's command at that place and time) to Allah's command to 'slay the unbelievers' (effective from the time of Mohammed forward to eternity)?
Do we attack the Qur'an which says the Bible has been corrupted from when God revealed it? (Looking back at ancient texts, The Old Testament is remarkably unchanged; yet when Uthman consolidated the written scraps of the Qur'an (it was an oral tradition until about 650) there were so many versions of the Qur'an floating around that he had many of the dissimilar ones destroyed. Also, I understand some of the Hadiths refer to suras that are no longer found in the Qur'an.
Do we disprove the "Perfect Man" argument? Mohammed thought he was visited by demons when he started having his revelations; later he acknowledged being deceived by Satan for the verses where he agreed that some moon-goddesses (Allah's daughters?) could be added to the panoply if the Quraysh agreed to worship Allah. It's recorded in the Qur'an that Mohammed got convenient revelations from Allah permitting such formerly-forbidden things as marrying his daughter-in-law, or ambushing a caravan during the holy month.
Do we elaborate on the dignity and power of the individual in Western society? Do we describe the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights? Do we harp on what the state of Islam in the world shows us: corruption, dictatorships run by thugs, misery, poverty, unrest, illiteracy? Do we prove that Islam has NOT invented the concept of zero (and other Islamic wishful thinking)?
What do you think is best to convey not just "NO" but "HELL, NO!" to Osama's Islamic invitation?
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at September 10, 2007 8:24 PM
Still begs the question: Why has the rodeo clown in office allowed this guy to still live? Watch World Trade Center on Showtime. It will reopen the rage wound and have you asking the same question.
Why is this guy not dead and why did we not finish the mission in Afghanistan?
What a disgrace. Our troops deserve better.
Posted by: amana39 at September 10, 2007 8:29 PM
I am not a conspiracy theorist. I had to get that out of the way. While watching farenheit 9/11, yes I saw it, we must always know what the nutters are thinking, I was suprised by one thing, the extent to which the Saudi Royal Family owns America. I'm not just talking about oil.
For example,Saudi Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, owns 5-6% of Murdoch's Fox news channel. He also owns a piece of Time/AOL, the owners of CNN. How does this play out in the real world? Fox news ran a story in 2005 headlined "Muslim riots in France", Prince Bin Talal did not like the headline called Murdoch personally, the headline changed to "Civil riots in France. CNN gave us that ridiculous beyond words Christine Amanapuor special on religions.
This same Prince Bin Talal has donated 20 million dollars to both Harvard and Georgtown Universities, just for starters.He is also the single largest stockholder in Time and Citibank. (Yidwithalid.blogspot.com) This is just one Saudi prince.
Another Saudi, Khalid Bin Mafouz,just by threatening Cambridge University Press with a libel Suite managed to get them to pulp all unsold copies of the book, recall all the books from libraries and issue an apology. All this despite the fact that the Authors of the book provided impecable sources for their claims. What was Mr. Bin Mafouz trying to supress? Saudi links to the funding of terrorism. British lible laws are different to American libel laws making it mutch easier for the plaintif to win cases even if all facts are correct. He chose not to threaten to sue the Authors as they are American.
Another American author,Rache Ehrenfeld, is challenging a suit brought againts her in Britain by Mr. Bin Mafouz for her book Funding Evil, in the American court system. She is disputing Jurisdiction and I think a second circuit court upheld her appeal. (Check terrorfinance.org)
Mr. Bin Mafouz has Sued or threatened suite over 30 times againts people linking him to funding terorrism. He has the money to draw these things out. Most of the suits have been settled.
The point I am trying to make is this. Islam is a grave threat to our way of life . One the ways of the attack is in the form of immigration and then the funding of Mosques from Saudi Arabia.
More importantly and less obvious is the attack on freedom of speech, freedom of information, the ability to go to an institute of learning without wondering if we are being taught facts or opinions.
We should be fighting foreign ownership of the media. And here I may sound like a left wing nut, we also have to fight globalisation. Globalisation does not recognise "the national good". Globalisation, foreign ownership drives our politicians to make decisions that are not in the best intrests of a country.
Mr Bin Laden, another Saudi billionaire prince, I should mention that I am referring to Osama, is inviting the West to embrace Islam. The world is acting as if he is the only Saudi threat. I just mentioned two individuals who have an impressive record in intefering in free speech. Another Saudi wants to interfere with our freedom. Please do not try to convince me that these three are "isolated incidences".
We hear so much about the "Zionist plot", "The Jewish Lobby", "The Jewish control of the media". Why do we not hear about the Saudi Control of the Media.
I have another question, if a terrorist makes a threat and no media outlet would run it, what would happen? Would we be diffusing his power?
On this day let us remember the victims of that terrible attack and let us fight the true perpetrators so that it will never happen again. We have to understand the true nature of the war war we are in.
Posted by: shez at September 10, 2007 8:33 PM
Hungarian Crusader
If you are looking for The "peaceful" Muslims,
you know the MODERATE muslims, they were in NYC marching in the parade.
Hafiz Rehman, a spokesman for the parade, said that he didn't believe that any radical Muslim groups were participating this year. He said the event's organizers opposed violence.
at September 10, 2007 8:36 PM
Osama- Mister hair club for men- can kiss my pet pig's asshole and tickle his balls with the newly refurbished beard. Yeah, the whole world can't wait to join Islam- - the religion of killers and madmen.
Any jerk-off Muslims want to attack me , come on down!!! South Carolina people know how to handle you dickheads.
at September 10, 2007 9:03 PM
hebrew handyman
is this how you handle them in south carolina?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3453252
by destroying the evidence.
"A deputy then found what he thought were explosives in the 2000 Toyota Camry and called the bomb squad. Technicians confirmed the devices were pipe bombs and destroyed them."
"Any jerk-off Muslims want to attack me , come on down!!! South Carolina people know how to handle you dickheads."
muslims were planning to attack your people in south carolina. now what?
at September 10, 2007 9:40 PM
Be thankful folks there is the most powerful internet that is doing a great public service in getting the truth out on Islam. Sites like JW/DW and many others are doing the tough job educating people to the danger of Islamofacism. Let us honor those who have died on 9/11 by using this excellent tool.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at September 10, 2007 9:58 PM
Thinking on what Robert stated as a solution to the enemies offer. I got to thinking about our roots as a nation. Despite what the MSM may say. The founding fathers had a good understanding of our God given rights and held a more scriptural view that many today. Below are some quotes I culled that may start the discussion on way to counter this treat.
----------------------------------------------
It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence.
If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known, that we are at all times ready for War.
Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light.
I walk on untrodden ground. There is scarcely any part of my conduct which may not hereafter be drawn into precedent.
George Washington
----------------------------------------
I beleive and have stated before to fight fire with fire (religion with religion) our culture verses theirs, we need to get to the roots of our culture. They are based upon the God of the Bible, like it or not.
Heb 4:12
For the word of God (the Bible not the Koran) is living and active. Sharper than any double‑edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
اليهود 4:12
لكلمة الله (الانجيل ولا القرآن) يعيش ونشطة. ادق من اي ازدواجيه المدببه السيف ، حتى يخرقها تقسيم النفوس والروح والمفاصل نخاع ؛ ومن القضاة الافكار والمواقف من القلب
at September 10, 2007 10:22 PM
Isnt it interesting that a significant number of Christians refuse to tithe (give 10%) of their income? Its estimated that somewhere between 10 and 20% tithe on a regular basis. An INVITATION to tithe is given along with a wonderful promise from GOD that the tither will have the Devourer rebuked.(Malachi 3: 8-12)
Islam FORCES all to pay alms (2 1/2%). Isnt it interesting that the forced 2 1/2% far exceeds the invited 10%?
Also prayer is forced five times a day. How much genuine communication can there be when you are forced to kneel and utter something the devil your praying too, mocks you for.
Posted by: guide inside at September 10, 2007 10:33 PM
i have told all my friends what the true meaning of bin laden's "invitation". and to ignore all the other nonsense.
i'm trying to get people to email their seantors and reps regarding the verse in the koran that mentions the invite to non-muslims.
i have a bad feeling about what is to come in the next few weeks.
islam should be smothered not embraced.
Posted by: precept at September 10, 2007 10:45 PM
All:
I would submit that we stop referring to the term "Islamic Jihad" when we discuss what we all commonly know to be the ideology that is actively seeking to destroy our country, take away our freedoms, and establish a brutal tyrannical world civilization. THEY call it Islamic Jihad, and we should not give them the right to describe or give name to their evil movement.
I think we need to describe it for what it is:
ISLAMIC INSURGENCY
Death to Islam!!!
I will post this on all threads.
Posted by: JohnAdams at September 10, 2007 10:55 PM
@JohnAdams
ISLAMIC INSURGENCY
Although I get what you are saying. The word insurgency is being used by the MSM and the Army and I think it would be confused with all of that hype. I suggest several of us come up with a different phrase/s. Then coin that to be used. How about;
ISLAM WANTS YOU
ALLAH SAYS SUBMIT
OSAMA SAYS LAST CHANCE
Of course we would have to vote on the best. Hopefully some linguist will nail it and it won't be hard picking the best one.
Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at September 10, 2007 11:18 PM
Back in April, 1453 the massing muslim armies encircled Constantinople and Mehmet offered the city and its emperor a chance to convert to islime or peacefully vacate the city.
Constantine refused and chose to fight to the death which enraged the dogs.
Today, Osamayomama has offered the option of islamic slavery to the people of America.
It is unfortunate many people are not taking the islamic offer very seriously or trying to hear it.
Most likely an attack will follow after the 11th to throw off the US government.
Is it not time to outlaw and deport this leprosy of islam from all western shores??
Even Sauron was not as bad as muslims or the faith islam.
At least his allies were not forced to engage in any slavery or butchery of their women folk.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at September 10, 2007 11:19 PM
John Adams--
Please don't post the same thing on multiple threads. It's considered bad comments etiquette, and is inefficient, since multiple strings of responses would go on in different places, and could potentially drive a number of threads off-topic. I'm leaving the comment on this thread since it got a response, but have removed the others.
Thanks,
Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor
at September 10, 2007 11:30 PM
If this is the tape inviting the West to Islam, don't we have to wait until we get a tape inviting us to pay the jizya before they can attack? Technically speaking, of course, since didn't they attack on 9/11 without going through these steps?
Too many people now think multiculturalism and relativism ARE the West's culture. Of course, they aren't, reason and judicious discrimination of the value of various phenomena are its culture.
Islam regards the divinity of Christ as an unacceptable and polytheistic association of a partner with God
Isn't it a limitation put on God to say that he couldn't have a partner? Isn't there a prohibition against limiting the Muslim version of god in any way? How is saying that he couldn't incarnate himself as a human not a limitation? Essentially, couldn't the Muslim version of god have incarnated as every person who ever lived, since to state categorically otherwise would be to place a limitation on said being.
Posted by: venividivici at September 10, 2007 11:33 PM
If you KNOW anything about the muhammadans, (and especially Arab muhammadans) you realize that a secular tyranny or a theocracy is ALL YOU CAN HOPE FOR!!!!!
I know that most Indonesians, Bangla Deshis and Turks are "muhammadan", and that all three countries are democracies. Not perfect (as if any democracy is perfect), but neither tyrannies nor theocracies.
Yes, democracy is rare in the muslim world, but not non-existent. The possibility of Iraq becoming a real democracy is precisely why the Iranians and other thugs are trying to mess things up. In other words, they take the possibility of Iraq NOT being a theocracy or tyranny quite seriously. The attempt to make a democracy in Iraq scares the Iranian leaders out of their minds, because they know that their own people might be inspired to set up the same thing in Iran and drive the mullahs out of power.
And that's what islam is ultimately about - power. The very word "islam" means "submission", which implies that one person has power over another.
Posted by: Bigfoot at September 10, 2007 11:37 PM
Marisol:
I apologize for the breech of etiquette, and thank you for your gentle chastisement. I will remember in future.
JA
And THANK YOU for your service to this mission.
Posted by: JohnAdams at September 10, 2007 11:58 PM
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING
Robert, that is some seriously impeccable analysis of the Osama overture to America, and I was thinking the exact same thing. I fully expect another major terrorism effort in the near future bc of it.
Your analysis of the reasons for separation of church and state in CHristianity vs Islam are excellent as you identify Biblical foundations for it, rather than silly Marxist/economic blather. Modern Marxist influenced scholarship is blind to what really motivates men and forms the foundations of ideology.
I'll be emailing this article to my friends. Thanks for telling it like it really is.
Posted by: Tookson at September 11, 2007 2:37 AM
If this has already been stated, please forgive the repetition.
The video was most likely produced some time ago, certainly before the arrests in Germany and certainly before the September 15th deadline the German terrorists were operating under. The video was most likely scheduled to be released before these attacks. In my opinion, this confirms Mr. Spencer’s thesis that the dye job was a signal that renewed battle is imminent. How many more attacks are planned for the near future is of course unknown, but it is very safe to assume that there are more attacks planned. I believe that OBL is far too intelligent to put all his bombs in one van.
at September 11, 2007 8:16 AM
in traditional Islamic law, the invitation to Islam must precede an attack on non-Muslims. The Islamic prophet Muhammad makes this clear, directing Muslims to issue this invitation first, and if the unbelievers refuse, to invite them to enter the Islamic social order as second-class dhimmis, and if they refuse both, to go to war with them:
Which is what we have done as well. We have asked Islamists or Muslims to join us in the new world order - and if they refuse, as some of them have, we are waging war on them.
at September 11, 2007 8:58 AM
I should have added. Heh, Heh.
Iran's turn next. Ofcourse, it will be issued an invitation.
Posted by: DP111 at September 11, 2007 9:02 AM
Firstly, and always, many thanks to Mr. Spencer and the others like him who fight daily to spread the truth about Islam. That said, I spent some years as an intel officer, with special responsibility for the Horn of Africa and Persian Gulf (considered intelligence "backwaters" in those days of the Cold War). I had numerous, individual Muslim friends, but was never much impressed by the religion or, particularly, by the sorry effect it had on the people who subscribed to it. There is a reason for the West's advancement and Islam's stagnation which speaks directly to the differences in their religions. Rather than deal with that, however, the traditional Muslim response has been to blame the West for its success, rather than to look inward for the cause of Islam's failures.
BUT, I see, therein, a real opportunity to fight - maybe even win - the ideological battle. We need to start linking the failures of Islamic cultures with the religion which is responsible for those failures, but that means, first and foremost, that we need to quit apologizing for the West's accomplishments and then we have to hold Islam responsible for its lack of accomplishment. There are reasons why Islamic science never progressed. There are reasons why there is little Islamic art and no great Islamic music. There is a reason for Islamic poverty and wretchedness and it all starts with the adjective "Islamic".
Secondly, we need to concentrate on that group, within Islam, which has the most to gain by its rejection, namely women. Lest you think me facetious, let me just say that I know, from my intel days, that one of the easiest ways to co-opt a Soviet servicemember was with a loaf of "Wonderbread" and a copy of "Playboy" and I've long held that Levi's and rock music did as much as "Star Wars" to undermine the Soviet Union. I see no reason why the same wouldn't work in Islamic nations - We ought to be broadcasting rock and roll and hip-hop to every Islamic country, a'la "Radio Free Europe". We should pay to print Arabic (and Farsi) versions of "Cosmo" and "Glamour" and airdrop 'em over Riyadh and Tehran. A couple million copies of "Victoria's Secret" catalogues, slipped into Iran, would do more to topple the mullahs' regime than all the covert plots the CIA could come up with.
There is nothing more terrifying to Islamic fundamentalists than the sheer attractiveness of Western cultures and lifestyles and we need to make as many Muslims aware of that lifestyle as we can. Islam is a cult and the best way to break a cult is to crack its monopoly on information and world views.
Just my humble suggestion.
Posted by: oldefarte at September 11, 2007 6:00 PM
The first crescent occurs in less than two days and begins ramadan. The Yazidis were the target at the last first crescent, August 14.
The beard (or hair dye) is an ancient move to be taken by an aging tribal king, who must repeatedly prove his strength and virility or risk being challenged to the death by a new man. The concept was explored by Sir James George Frazer in his book "The Golden Bough". Some may recall the TV mini-series "Shaka Zulu" in which Shaka used black shoe polish to color his hair.
Posted by: Emerson Twain at September 12, 2007 12:03 AM
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