This is funny. In the ummah, mosques are monitored by their own co-cultists. If the cesspoolian nations feel the need to monitor mosques then does it not make sense for infidel nations whom they seek to destroy to do the same?

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at September 25, 2007 12:17 PM

"If we accept the Pew Center’s estimate that there are 2.35 million Muslims in the United States, then 5% of that number would be 117,500 Muslim-Americans who have a favorable view of Al-Qaeda. A number that should not only send chills down our spines, but cries out for eternal vigilance."

This is indeed a chilling statistic.

Posted by: ConorMacNessa at September 25, 2007 12:33 PM

I proceed on the assumption that all Muslims are confused human beings (how could anyone who thinks Mohammed is the model man not be confused?), but those who adhere to the Wahhabi sect of Islam (which I think Mohammed would have approved of heartily) are particularly warped and we have them here in large numbers in America. Trouble is most politicians remain clueless about this enormous menace to our basic freedoms. In fact, the Democratic Party is actively courting Muslim voters as one more way of insuring that Republicans remain in the minority. So, good for Peter King and would that many more Republicans speak out as he has. I would welcome Democrats doing the same, but I've pretty much given up on them where the Islamic threat to our liberties is concerned.

Posted by: Wellington at September 25, 2007 12:35 PM

I know Representative King and his family personally, and I have known that he has felt this way, especially since 9-11. It is great that this realization is being publicized, but this is nothing new from Peter. More people need to get Congressman King's message out all over the country, and the world.

Posted by: Gotham at September 25, 2007 12:48 PM

Every mosque must be monitored, every sermon must be in English, and every imam scrutinized. Any mosque that has an imam who preaches the Wahabbi party line and advocates Jew and Christian hatred, and advocates implementation of sharia in the US must be shut down and the imam deported or jailed - no ifs, ands, or buts.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 12:50 PM

Peter King has always been a Congressman I could stomach listening to. Lets see, on one side we are hearing leaders beginning to speak out against them. On the other side they are having prayer sessions with them. Big difference. We will never hear the other side speak out against them, hello, they are with them. How many times must we have the football pulled away before we begin to understand this?

Posted by: tgusa at September 25, 2007 12:54 PM

Pete King is the man. He will not back down and his supporters in his district will never allow him to be ousted from his seat.

Posted by: awake at September 25, 2007 12:58 PM

Is "Mohammed Cat" finally starting to get out of the bag?

Posted by: sounder at September 25, 2007 1:04 PM

sung to the tune of...

When Islam first, at Allah's command,
Arose from out the arid plain,
It rose a nightmare from Muhammad's fevered brain,
This was the charter, the charter of the land,
And inidel barbarians sang this strain:

Rule Islamiya!
Islam will rule the world!
And if you you refuse to surrender, into hell be hurled!

Posted by: jsla at September 25, 2007 1:06 PM

"infidel"

Posted by: jsla at September 25, 2007 1:11 PM

"It isn't just Democrats. Virtually no one wants to speak about this. Fantasy-based analysis rules the airwaves, and fantasy-based policymaking dominates Washington."

Unfortunately, this statement is 100% on the money. While the conservative base seems well aware of the threat, the Republican "leadership" is as clueless as anybody. Starting with President Bush and all the way down the line. It's got to be something in the water in Washington. Hopefully, Congressman King will start people thinking and wising up. But I won't be holding my breath.

Posted by: Proud Infidel at September 25, 2007 1:11 PM

25% of Muslim-Americans refused to give an answer when asked if they had a favorable or unfavorable view of Al-Qaeda.

25% of 2.35 million = 587,500

587,500 = Al-Queda sympathizers
117,500 = Al-Queda recruitment base

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 25, 2007 1:20 PM

Muslims are not confused human beings. If so, they are equal in confusion as those people who withhold medical care and pray through Jesus for a cure (miracle), or those snake handlers who have faith that when the rattler bites them they will not even get sick. About thirty years ago a man drank strychnine believing that his faith would spare him; he died an ugly death.

I understant religious fundamentalism, I have the t-shirt, and I have been there.

When a Muslim bomb-belt carrying killer pushes the button, you best believe that he actually knows with a fervent cetainty that Allah will provide him with all his carnal desires.

Just like the fellow who drank the poison - Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 1:24 PM

A few years back, at the mosque I went into (in a major US city), as a definite non-muslim, I was not received warmly, but neither were people hostile to me. I could tell that I made them uncomfortable, but I didn't care, and eventually they warmed up some. I mean, what were they going to do, demonstrate how great islam is by telling me to leave? They told me that muslims are not supposed to be friends with Christians (which actually, is only partly true. For on the one hand they are not, but on the other hand, they are commanded to be friends with the 'People of the Book') but they put up with me, and I befriended them. They were nice enough people from Saudi, Iraq, Yemen, UAE, Egypt, etc., and even the Bronx, but their world view, shaped by their twisted theology, is whacked. I mean on every day terms they were people with normal concerns and emotions, but the false teaching and lies (i.e. Qu'ran) that leads their deceived hearts just had such a complete grip on them that they were not open to hearing anything else. It is not an educated view; it seems more like a brain-washed view. Eventually, after 6 months or so of faithful weekly attendance, and fasting with them for Ramaaden etc., I was able to explain the true gospel with them, which conflicts greatly with mohammed's recent (700 A.D.)twisted version of things. So some have heard.

Perhaps it is time to go back in and have a seat (or a carpet) around their rice, chicken, yogurt and dates again...what's the the worst thing that could happen, them asking me to leave? I'll just say, no, thank you, I think I'll stay. Them hating me? Many already hate us, right? Them attacking me? That would not be a good idea for them. Really. Them killing me? Unless a kernel of wheat dies and goes into the ground, it does not reproduce, right? Them calling the law? Oooh, asking the very government that they want to overthrow to protect them....hmmm...quandry for them. Ya, maybe its time we get our boots in the mosques.

Posted by: angryeagle at September 25, 2007 1:34 PM

I have told this story before, so I apologize in advance to those who have heard this story before; but this is a very fitting headline to tell it again.

My husband and I used to own a business in Southern California -- Encino to be exact -- and we had two Muslim male employees who attended Mosque on a regular basis. So one day my husband asked these two guys what kind of things were being said by the imams during their 'sermons', if you call them sermons; specifically things being said about Israel/Jews.

We are strong supporters of Israel, so their answer really shocked us. All they said to two of my husbands questions were, "Oh, you don't want to know!!!" And they would not give specifics.

The shocking part for me was that whatever was being said, that they didn't want to disclose, was being stated in a mosque in Encino, California. Naively I assumed that hateful things were being spewed about Israel/Jews in the Middle East -- not here in the US. This happened about 3 years ago, before I was introduced to Jihad Watch and understood the Truth about Islam.

Education is key -- and yes -- I am in full support of monitoring every Mosque in America.

Posted by: champ at September 25, 2007 1:37 PM

If we think it will be different here in the USA then anywhere else in the world now or in the passed history of Islam we are living in "La La" land and soon to be in "Islam land".

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at September 25, 2007 1:40 PM

Havoc, cancer is monitored for a while; the doctor finds the growth, tests a biopsy, then eradicates it. Sometimes the treatment causes as much pain and suffering as the cancer.

Some people just pray that the growth will vanish; then they die.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 1:54 PM

A no brainer.

Ban muslim immigration.

Deport those with a greater allegiance to sharia than to the laws of the country.

Bulldoze all those mosques supported by the House of Saud.

And monitor these islamists.

Posted by: dgene at September 25, 2007 1:56 PM

"25% of Muslim-Americans refused to give an answer when asked if they had a favorable or unfavorable view of Al-Qaeda. 5% of Muslim-Americans said they had a favorable view of the group that attacked the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and tried to attack the White House or Capitol building."
-- from the article above

This can have only one meaning. That 25% of Muslims now living in America (and some of whom have managed to receive American citizenship, the citizenship of the most powerful Infidel nation-state) who refused to say if they had a favorable or an unfavorable view of Al Qaeda, of course had a favorable view. There can be no other conceivable interpretation. They were worried about the poll-taking. They do not trust the polls, and in any case are past masters at taqiyya, that is at dissimulation -- religiously-sanctioned dissimulation -- to protect both the Faith, and Believers. Only the most fervent, those who think they have no need to disguise their views, so convinced are they that Allah will provide and protect them, and that "Islam is here to stay" no matter what the indigenous Infidels may think, will tell the truth.

And among that remaining group of 70% who apparently are willing to have an "unfavorable" view of Al Qaeda, how many of those simply were lying? Why, given Muhammad's statement, as well-known to Muslims as are any of Jesus's remarks to Christians -- that "War is Deception," should Believers not follow the example of that Model of Right Behavior, uswa hasana, that Perfect Man, al-insan al-kamil, Muhammad?

Such polls of Muslims in Western countries misreport in only one way: they always and everywhere will underreport the real levels of sympathy, and indeed enthusiasm, for Al Qaeda, or if not for Al Qaeda, then for other groups that use terrorism. And the real question to be asked, and that if the respondent were quite sincere and were a Believing Muslim can have only one answer is: do you support the Jihad to spread Islam, to remove all obstacles to its spread, so that one day, over the entire globe, Islam will dominate and Muslims rule?

Any Muslim who answers "no" is either lying or does not know his Islam, or thinks, quite incorrectly, that he can be a Muslim and reject a central duty of Islam, a duty that has been called the "Sixth Pillar of Islam."

And we Infidels have a duty as well. We have a duty to study the texts, and understand the tenets, and the attitudes, and the atmospherics, of Islam.

The author above cautiously uses the figure of 5% rather than the minimum percentage -- 30% -- he has every right to use-- to calculate the estimated number of Muslims in this country who, at a minimum, approve of Al Qaeda. He writes that, assuming a figure of 2.35 million Muslims, "5% of that number would be 117,500 Muslim-Americans who have a favorable view of Al-Qaeda." But if the minimum percentage we can assume approve of Al Qaeda is 30%, then the total number of Muslims living in this country who approve of those who wish to kill us, for being Infidel members of the most powerful and resolute Infidel nation-state, is not 117,500, but six times as many, or more than 700,000 Muslims in this country, who approve of a group that has killed thousands of Americans and wishes to kill, it claims, millions more.

And of that total figure of 2.35 million Muslims, at least one million must consist of the group known as "Black Muslims" who are not orthodox in their Islam (indeed, are not regarded by Arab Muslims as real Muslims), who for example countenance the use of music at some of their official gatherings (impossible in Islam), and who are less likely than orthodox Muslims to accept all the tenets of Islam, including Jihad as a central duty, and the state of permanent war between Believers and Infidels. So one assumes that the "700,000 Muslims" would belong to the regular Muslims, who amount to 1.35 million. And that means that, even if we ignore the certainty that many Muslims who claimed not to approve of Al Qaeda in fact did so (And why would they not lie? What could possibly prevent them? And why would the Muslims participating in the poll not assume, given their experiences in Muslim countries, that any answer they provided to a seemingly confidential poll would in fact make its way to the police or F.B.I.? And that is why one can be sure that any built-in misreportiing will be in the underreporting of support for Al Qaeda), more than half of the non-native (i.e. Black) Muslims in this country are perfectly willing to declare their support of Al Qaeda, or at the very least, to "refuse to answer that question" -- which is, in this case, obviously the same thing.

Posted by: Hugh at September 25, 2007 2:03 PM

It's the liberals who will ultimately cause the downfall of our nation because they want free rights and protection for everyone, plus they want to give away all of our assets.

Here is something that's going to piss everybody off.....My friend owns rental properties and a Yemeni couple applied to rent one of his properties in an upscale area of Columbus, OH. The Yemeni man wanted to rent a home for his second wife and child, then presented a government voucher of $850 to pay for part of the rent. My friend turned him down, but found out our government also paid for their cars and rent for the other man's wife and child. At this point, I am absolutely enraged that our government is paying for the rent and cars of Yemeni's to live here, not just for one wife, but two to live in a wealthy neighborhood.

Posted by: Bonniea at September 25, 2007 2:04 PM

Pelayo: I would vigorously contend that all Muslims are confused human beings and that most Christians are not. Here's my argument. If you admire a man like Mohammed there's something clearly not right about that. Mohammed was a brutal human being and also a charlatan who "received" numerous divine revelations justifying his many sexual desires. Jesus was not brutal nor did he have any of his earthly passions sanctioned by the divine. Now, not being at all religious as I am, I don't think Christianity or any religion is the true faith, but just as a scientist may have a particular hypothesis about a medicine, a chemical, a galaxy, etc. that proves to be incorrect, so the Christian (or Buddhist, Hindu, Zoroastrian, etc.), as I see things, is "merely" wrong in believing that Christianity is the true faith. But neither the scientist nor the Christian under this scenario is confused. They are only incorrect. One is confused, however, if you admire a man like Mohammed, think Islamic religious law should apply to both believers and non-believers, find jihad an acceptable way to spread the faith and I could go on and on here. In short, in my world view (which many who post here would disagree with as is their right), Christians are only wrong. Muslims are confused and wrong. Huge difference. Yes, there are a minority of Christians who, because of extreme interpretations of their faith, do really weird and stupid things like handle poisononous snakes or deny their children basic medical care, but the fault lies here with these individuals, not with all of Christianity. Not so with Islam. Here the entire faith is warped, the only one among the major religions of the world. That's why I contend that all Muslims are confused, which is far worse than simply being in error.

Posted by: Wellington at September 25, 2007 2:09 PM

King is right and on the right side. Monitor mosques and be ready to deport hate mongering clerics.

When they finally stop muslim immigration, and deport the illegals, we should deport the leftist idiots right along with them. They can go and hang out in Iran with their buddy Beasty Boy Ahmadinijad. Since a large percentage of these leftists/liberals are gay, Beasty will welcome them with open arms...and a rope...

Posted by: duh_swami at September 25, 2007 2:12 PM

...Hugh is, as usual, absolutely correct....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 25, 2007 2:16 PM

awake,

Hey awake. Make sure you tell Eagle I said hi, LOL

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 2:20 PM

Wellington, I can think like a Christian fundamentalist and believe that I can extrapolate those old experiences and old beliefs and understand how other religionists think.

When the comandment comes from God or Allah it is a devine commandment. Whether it is good or bad does not matter, it is from a god. For Muslims, all things taught by Allah are good and also convenient for the male.

Do not confuse modern Christianity with the original. If we still followed Paul with the same zeal that was held 200 years ago, women could not yet vote, hold elective office, or be a church leader - or even speak aloud in church for that matter. Divorce would be prohibited, and women would get the short end of the estate when the husband died. Fundamental Muslims are following Allah and Mo with the same zeal that they had over 1,000 years ago.

Maybe you are right; it's just that Christians have overcome their original confusion.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 2:30 PM

"Why do those on the left in our country not want us to speak of this? Why do so many Democrats not want us to question the motives of those from within who look favorably upon Al-Qaeda? Surely it’s not for crass political reasons or to pander for votes.
"

Sorry, but it Surely is for crass political reasons and pandering for votes. To politicians, and especially Demodratic politicians, the prospect of losing Muslim votes in Dearbon Michigan, is a far more hateful thought than the death of a couple hundred Americans in a terrorist attack. We should know this by now by watching their stance on illegal immigration to this country. Muslims, like illegal immigrants, represent blocks of votes far more precious than any life.

Sound cynical? Yes, but that's the kind of power hungary creatures we're dealing with. Tragically, the Congressmen Kings of the world are far and in between.

Posted by: rational at September 25, 2007 2:33 PM

" do you support the Jihad to spread Islam, to remove all obstacles to its spread, so that one day, over the entire globe, Islam will dominate and Muslims rule? "

.,...go to your local gas station and ask the Muslim operator ....I will...I will report back>....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 25, 2007 2:35 PM

"fantasy-based policymaking dominates in Washington"

It's been this way since the end of WW2 and for the life of me I cannot understand why it is that way. The idea of 'containment and management' when it comes to fighting our enemies has completely taken hold and the concept of total warfare leading to total victory has been thrown out the window. I see it in the fighting overseas, and I see it in our (lack of) homeland defense. It's no reflection on the skills and efforts of our men and women in uniform, but rather 'the people in charge' back in Washington.
Total warfare, leading to true victory, means just that: total warfare against the enemy and anyone even perceived to be the enemy. They're seen to be preaching hate in their churches? They recruiting soldiers for the jihad? They're raising money for the conquest of the west? They're supporting 5th column training camps on our own soil? Monitor their activities. Shut 'em down. Seize their assets. Don't deport the people you catch- put them in jail. Make their lives hell. Nazi's sympathizers weren't cut any slack- treat these people the same way.
King is right on the money, but he will be demonized for what's he's said. I suspect his fellow Republicans will scream the loudest about this.

Posted by: livefreeordie! at September 25, 2007 2:44 PM

If we accept the Pew Center’s estimate that there are 2.35 million Muslims in the United States, then 5% of that number would be 117,500 Muslim-Americans who have a favorable view of Al-Qaeda. A number that should not only send chills down our spines, but cries out for eternal vigilance.

I think you can safely add the 25% who refused to give the answer whether or not they support A/Q.

Kitman.

Then there is an unspecified number who flat-out lied.

Taquiyya.

Look got your number of potentially violent moslems to be at least a million.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at September 25, 2007 2:59 PM

Although I am all for freedom of speech, I think it is dangerous when people make wide and untrue generalizations. There is not one religion better than another, nor is there a religion more dangerous than another. People of all religions force their agendas on other people in the name of religion. I've seen Muslims do it, Christians, Jews, etc. . .

It is an intelligent person who can separate a radical from someone pure of faith. There will always be radicals in all religions. Radicals that "spew" hatred, but it takes a bit of intelligence and knowledge to be able to separate the two.

I myself am a Christian, and as a Christian, I believe in loving and accepting everyone. I love people of all colors, all religions, all sexualities. . . But what I cannot and will not love, is ignorant people such as you all who do not have the intelligence to realize that if you were TRUE Christians, you wouldn't feel the hatred you are all feeling.

Posted by: leaho at September 25, 2007 3:07 PM

After listening to specials on Discovery Channel, Fox news, etc - there are way more than 5% that are ok with jihad - the kind that their prophet taught - the violent kind - the kind that Al Qaeda does. What no one in these specials do is ask why they can follow such a character as Mohammed, or do they bring up the fact of their double talk (deception) to infidels, or any passages of the koran that abrogate those peaceful passages.

I would guesstamate that there are closer to over a million that are ok with all types of jihad and that is why about a handful of the truly peaceful ones speak out and the majority of 'moderate' muslims do absolutely nothing. Doing nothing means acceptance.

When these documentaries start asking why all those 'moderates' can follow such a creep as mohammed, then I will start (maybe) changing my mind on all of this. And I say maybe because I haven't heard it yet, nor their response to such a question.

Posted by: R_not at September 25, 2007 3:14 PM

leaho

So leaho, as a true Christian, do you beleive Mohammed was a prophet of God?

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 3:16 PM

Leaho--

Putting words in people's mouths is a great way to get off on the wrong foot with people. I don't hate Muslims.

But if you think all religions are equally prone to "radicalism" and violence, it's good that you've found us. I hope you'll click the "Islam 101" tab at the top of the page for a look at the texts and teachings that are at issue here.

Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor

Posted by: MarisolJW at September 25, 2007 3:17 PM

Visa holders (and even Natualized U.S. Citizens) can be returned to their respective native country.

American born U.S. citizens, of course, cannot be.

Firebrand Muslim clerics caught preaching those tenets of true Islam which run afoul of our Constitution and applicable American law (theocracy, jihad, supremacism, and perhaps even sedition) should be arrestd, charged appropriately, and be subjected to public trials at which the texts of the sermons which brought them to trial are given to public scrutiny.

Those found guilty should be jailed; after which appropriate deportations should follow.

Quiet deportations and 'wrist slappings' leave the American public perpetually uniformed about Islam and subjects them to ongoing misrepresentation of the facts by the likes of CAIR and our clueless (or deceitful) media and politicians.

Posted by: PRCS at September 25, 2007 3:19 PM

Hey awake. Make sure you tell Eagle I said hi, LOL
Posted by: Elric66

Elric, I read your exchange with "Eagle" on his board. I suggest you call him Ostrich from now on.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at September 25, 2007 3:19 PM

I'm not from Congressman Kings state, but sent him an email expressing support.

Posted by: rejjie at September 25, 2007 3:21 PM

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ:

I'm not sure if I am the person being referred to in leaho's post.

Although my post was deleted, I nowhere espoused or demonstrated any kind of hatred towards anyone. I'm not quite sure what I did wrong in the post except to relate my experiences and thought processes that led me to Christianity.

I do, however, HATE Islam. It is false and it leads souls to a diminished life and eventually to eternal separation from God. The main danger that I see in it is the teaching that certain human beings are of more value than others.

Mosques that teach Islam should be monitored. Christians that have the truth should be willing to tell others, in love, about the Saviour.

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 25, 2007 3:23 PM

Troll alarm!

We seem to have another lover-boy from the Islamo-camp above,,,,

Interesting that Islamic countries know their birds by the feathers as we can see here, and they manage to keep them out:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22483441-2702,00.html

The Indonesians didn't let him come into the country, and heaven knows how he got into Australia. How exactly? Could it have something to do with this guy:

http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1047&Itemid=64

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 25, 2007 3:23 PM

As a Christian, I believe that I have no right to judge. I do believe though, that if I happened to be born in a country like Iraq or Iran, there is a very good chance that I would be a Muslim and not a Christian. Most of us are the religion of our parents. Therefore, why would I think that I, being a Christian, is any better than a Muslim?

Posted by: leaho at September 25, 2007 3:26 PM

I'm not from Congressman King's state, but sent him an email expressing support.

Posted by: rejjie at September 25, 2007 3:26 PM

Allahfanculo,

He couldnt hack it. He finally blocked me because the ostrich couldnt handle debate. He gets more dhimmified with each blog. He is a sad individual indeed.

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 3:27 PM

From the "Jews for allah" thread.
Why are moslems coming to the West?
From the SoS* website

Rabi'a ibn 'Amir(radiyallahu 'anhu) went to the leader of the Persians. The leader asked him, "Why are you coming to our lands? If you are coming for money then we will pay everyone of you a salary so leave us alone." But Rabi'a said, "That is not why we are here. We are sent to free the creation from being slaves of one another to being slaves of Allah the Creator of the creation and from the oppression of religion to the justice of Islam and we want to deliver people from the narrowness of this world to the vastness of this world and the Afterlife.
Posted by: interestinconundrum [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 25, 2007 12:26 PM

Posted by: interestinconundrum at September 25, 2007 3:29 PM

leaho,

Thats a nice little dance. Dont have the fortitude to express an opinion?

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 3:30 PM

. . .if you were TRUE Christians, you wouldn't feel the hatred you are all feeling.

Now, the desire for self-preservation is hatred? Resistance to world wide jihad is hatred?

Here is what Jesus did not say: If you are smitten in the left lung with an AK-47, turn and let them smite you in the right lung.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 3:30 PM

"There is not one religion better than another, nor is there a religion more dangerous than another."
-- from a poster above

This is not, one can be sure, the fruit of decades of study of the behavior of believers in various religions, through time and across space. It is merely the assertion of a belief, that must, simply must, be true, for if it were not true, and if one had the duty to investigate its truthfulness rather than accept some interfaith piety that may, upon that investigation, prove to have little basis in history and certainly offers no hope at the present moment, then....

What would one think of the assertion that "all political ideologies" are the same, or at least none is "better than another," and no political ideology -- Fascism, Nazism, Communism, monarchism, advanced liberal democracy solicitous of the rights of individuals -- is "more dangerous than another."

You would think that a very foolish position indeed.

Yet, substitute the word "religion" and all sorts and conditions of men -- the poster above, Dawkins of meme fame, the "independent thinker" who becomes a sudden lemming when the matter of Israel's supposed perfidy arises, and that well-paid pleaser Christopher Hitchens qui fait son petit Orwell -- they think it makes sense, they think it is a perfectly reasonable summary, they believe in the equal menace from all religions, not even bothering to distinguish those with universalist claims (Islam, Christianity) from those whose claims are linked to a particular people even if proselytes are welcome (Judaism, Hinduism). They seem unable to distinguish, or claim to be unable, the demands imposed, and methods offered as a model, by Islam on its followers, and the demands imposed, and methods implored, by Christianity on its followers.

What do you think?

Posted by: Hugh at September 25, 2007 3:31 PM

Leaho--

I'll be clear that I won't allow this thread to be driven endlessly off-topic.

But I think you need to make a distinction between people and schools of thought. I believe in the fundamental dignity of every human being (which is just one reason why I oppose Islamic sharia law). But human beings, as rational creatures, can and must make critical judgements with respect to the beliefs and opinions around them-- even the ones they were raised with.

Posted by: MarisolJW at September 25, 2007 3:32 PM

Pelayo,

Kinda ironic he is judging us but when I asked an opinion of him, he said he had no right to judge. A real phoney.

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 3:33 PM

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who saith unto us, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Leaho, this is why you must judge other belief systems, you must tell people about Jesus Christ and you must do your utmost to save people from a Christless eternity?

I can't understand what kind of Christian you are, if you won't state what you believe, obey the Lord and witness to the unsaved about Him, and give glory to the Holy God that showed His mercy to you.

Don't say I don't respect other people because I dare to share my faith! Would you let a drowning man drown because you respect his choice to go out into a rip tide?

And the God of the universe can save whom He will; many Muslims have come to Christ. Maybe you should ask them if they think you should tell people about Christ.

God bless you.

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 25, 2007 3:37 PM

Just for leaho

http://www.pottymouth.org/humor/shinola.html

Posted by: interestinconundrum at September 25, 2007 3:37 PM

Elric66, judging someones words and deeds is not the judgement that Jesus was speaking of, to me that is. To me Jesus spoke of judging the soul. A bank robber just might want some money instead of wanting to do an evil act.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 3:41 PM

Pelayo: Thanks for your response. I enjoy the give and take. I would only comment here that women being denied the right to vote and not being able to speak out in church in past times really have nothing at all to do with the theological blueprint of Christianity. These prohibitions were social in nature and found virtually everywhere. And, as societies evolved, an expansive sense of what constituted justice occurred. After all, Jesus himself never condemned slavery, an institution we now look upon, and rightfully so, as a moral horror. But I don't fault Jesus for that. He was operating at a time when one's worldview saw nothing wrong with a human being owning another human being. One needs to avoid the Whig interpretation of history as well as hesitating in taking one's modern mind-set back into a past time and deeming that previous age guilty for not having the modern point of view. But with the Islamic theological blueprint we have here a paradigm for permanent hostility to non-believers, a call to believers to subjugage the earth, an admiration for a psychopath (i.e., Mohammed), a legal system which makes the democratic experiment impossible and much more that is inimical to treating our fellow man with understanding and respect. Christianity has none of this and has shown a remarkable flexibility to adapt to man's social and poltical evolution. Even Islam has allowed for some innovations (e.g., women can vote in theocratic Iran) but so many features of the Islamic creed have totalitarian aspects (e.g., sharia is to replace all other constitutions and legal systems across the world) that no other major faith is possessed of. And that's why I single out Muslims as not only wrong but confused--------and a menace to American liberty and to Western Civilization.

Posted by: Wellington at September 25, 2007 3:42 PM

Pelayo,

Too true. If we didnt judge on anything, we would have chaos. I just found it ironic he was judging us and than told me it wasnt his place to judge. Just a little troll looking to stir things up.

On topic, if mosques are going to be used to spew hatred and recruit for jihad, we have the right to monitor.

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 3:45 PM

Leaho dear, you're an ignorant hypocrite. You love everyone but us because we "hate"?! You obviously don't know what hate is but if you want to find out, read the Qur'an. When you're through with that, read the sunna and the sira. If you're still convinced that we "hate" and one religion is as good as another, commit yourself to the nearest mental institution.

You either love everyone or you don't; which is it? If you can love your enemies, muslims, why on earth can't you love us? Islam is the most violent, intolerant, malevolent "religion" that has ever existed. Some religions are indeed better than others, and all religions are better than islam. Before you come to this website and pass judgement on us because we're not politically correct moral relativists like yourself, you might want to learn a few facts about the religion you are defending.

Posted by: Susanp at September 25, 2007 3:47 PM

If mosques can be monitored, sermons recorded, money traced, perhaps we can get Islam declared a criminal entrerprise (racket) and use the RICO statute to shut it down. The Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act has been used several times and has jailed a whole ship load of criminal bigwigs.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 3:48 PM

If some of you believe that all Mosques should be monitored, than I will be so bold to say that I believe all evangelical churches should be monitored. They are teaching young US children hatred. They are teaching that being gay is wrong, etc. . .

Do I think that people of the muslim religion are more prone to violence? Sure. . . That's a fair argument. But I also am educated enough to be able to separate a person from a religion.

Posted by: leaho at September 25, 2007 3:49 PM

http://activistchat.com/images/Khatami5.jpg

Posted by: interestinconundrum at September 25, 2007 3:50 PM

If mosques can be monitored, sermons recorded, money traced, perhaps we can get Islam declared a criminal entrerprise (racket) and use the RICO statute to shut it down. The Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act has been used several times and has jailed a whole ship load of criminal bigwigs.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 3:52 PM

A reminder: This is a non-sectarian site. No proselytizing.

Posted by: MarisolJW at September 25, 2007 3:53 PM

I don't think religion should rule the world. It is that kind of thought that creates wars. I think it's great to believe whatever it is you want to believe. But when someone is so adamant that they are right and everyone else is wrong, intolerance and hatred breeds. I know my relationship with God, and that is all that is important. No one will know the truth until they are "gone." All I know, is that when I am in heaven, I am confident I will be there with muslims and jews and christians, and all good people.

Posted by: leaho at September 25, 2007 3:54 PM

Something has really gotten slow in a server somewhere.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 3:56 PM

http://activistchat.com/images/Khatami5.jpg

Posted by: interestinconundrum at September 25, 2007 3:56 PM

'leaho'- the troll, is of course another Muhammedan troll pretending to be a Christian. That would be number 686 by the sheik yer'mami troll-count on JW.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 25, 2007 3:56 PM

Leaho-- you're not answering our questions, just pontificating. I don't see how your being convinced of your place in the afterlife protects us from jihadists on earth.

Posted by: MarisolJW at September 25, 2007 3:58 PM

"A reminder: This is a non-sectarian site. No proselytizing.

Posted by: MarisolJW"

yep...

..."To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith.
To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine"

Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 25, 2007 3:59 PM

"I believe in the fundamental dignity of every human being..."
-- a remark by Marisol above

You do? You haven't met me.

Posted by: Hugh at September 25, 2007 4:01 PM

I can say this about religion and wars, as far as Europe and the Americas are concerned, there has not been a religious fueled war in several generations.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 4:02 PM

and all good people.

You really do not have a clue about true Christianity if you believe being good gets you to heaven.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at September 25, 2007 4:03 PM

Hugh--

To put a new twist on an old quip, you can be that humble, because you are that great.

Posted by: MarisolJW at September 25, 2007 4:07 PM

If some of you believe that all Mosques should be monitored, than I will be so bold to say that I believe all evangelical churches should be monitored.
--posted by leaho

Believe me, at my Church (Evangelical)we would have no problem with the authorities monitoring us. Matter of fact, there are probably over two-dozen law enforcement personnel who attend the church.

What makes you think we teach our young children hatred?

We teach them Jesus who was love incarnate! It's all about LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. LOVE, LOVE and more LOVE! It's a big love fest. It's a bunch of people praying for each other and loving each other and glorying in the love of Christ.

Don't you know ANYTHING about Christianity????

Anything????

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 25, 2007 4:08 PM

leaho: If you could wave a magic wand and tomorrow all Muslims would wake up Christians, would you take the time to do so? I wouldn't hesitate here and I'm not a Christian. An earth without Muslims would be a better world.

Posted by: Wellington at September 25, 2007 4:09 PM

leaho,

Islam executes gays. What say you?

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 4:13 PM

Leaho, Christian churches may be teaching that homosexuality is wrong on a spiritual level, but which churches are teaching that homosexuals should be killed? Please, find me a currently practiced religion that does not teach that homosexuality is wrong or one that endorses the practice. An example would be a good way to bolster you argument.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 4:14 PM

Hugh,

Good post. People who say that one religion is the as another, are just expressiong the relativist view of the world: Everything is relative, so it is wrong headed for anyone to make a judgement about anything, including morality, culture, political systems, and even whole civilizations. Right and wrong, good and evil, are all in the minds of the beholder, and no one has a right to challenge the views of another.

I often wonder if the relativist' think the Spanish were wrong in ending human sacrifice in Mexico, or the British were wrong in ending child sacrifice in India. I doubt very much if the victims of these practices were relativist. I suspect that they were ever so grateful that others were willing to make moral judgements about their religious tormentors.

We should never shrink from making moral judgements about Islam. It would be a moral failure on our part to do so.

Posted by: rational at September 25, 2007 4:14 PM

I love people of all colors, all religions, all sexualities…

Then you have a problem with Islam which;

Consistently subjugates non-Arabs when it comes to power;
Requires members of other religions to be converted, subjugated, or killed; and
Kills homosexuals.

2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them.

Posted by: pez at September 25, 2007 4:15 PM

"I will be there with muslims and jews and christians, and all good people.

Posted by: leaho"

....well, you are 3/4 correct....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 25, 2007 4:16 PM

But when someone is so adamant that they are right and everyone else is wrong, intolerance and hatred breeds.
--posted by leaho

Yup. And that in a nutshell is what is wrong with Islam. Muhammad was "so adamant" that he was "right and everyone else...wrong" that intolerance and hatred have characterized his slavish worshippers ever since.

Intolerance and hatred of others is the single most prominent aspect of Islam. It is why Muhammadans don't play well with other children. And they never will.

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 25, 2007 4:19 PM

leaho sounds like my good friend Eagle. :-)

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 4:20 PM

Leaho should be happy

http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2007/09/gaza-attacks-on.html

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 4:21 PM

Muslim Cabbies At It Again

http://the-gathering-storm.blogspot.com/2007/09/storm-track-infiltration-muslim-cabbies.html

Posted by: Elric66 at September 25, 2007 4:24 PM

Leaho,

You're a Christian? Then as a Christian, you should at least have the conviction to stand by what you purport to believe. As far as the authorities monitoring evangelical Christian churches, come on! I'm sure there's plenty of folks in this world that need to hear about Jesus' love.

Posted by: livefreeordie! at September 25, 2007 4:25 PM

leaho: If you could wave a magic wand . . . by Wellington

There's a genie in a magic lamp joke in there somewhere.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 25, 2007 4:31 PM

I know this comes under the category of the blindingly obvious, but yesterday I was thinking about the amazingly stupid reactions of apparently well-meaning muslims, or apologists presenting themselves as "moderates", to the anti-jihad literature.

Why do they regard such mildly presented expository work as Spencer's, Pipes, Bat Y'eor and others as so evil, when they could go after lots of foaming-at-the-mouth bigots willing to slander anyone different than themselves, death threats and all. Why go after the gentlemen engaging in well-researched, intelligent and civilized discussion? And how do these otherwise intelligent-seeming muslims not see how silly they appear in their reactions?

I have always thought it was because they realise that this is a deep threat to their jihadist side, and embrace the notion that without jihadism their religion is meaningless, so assaults on violent jihad are taken as assaults on the faith. Of course, those actively involved in such jihad simply see it as a tactical manoever, to meet with force any commentator who shows, or encourages, resistance.

And there surely is a certain amount of all that.

But a slighlty different take on the matter struck me, all of a sudden -- I think what did it was the picture of Ahmedinijad, yesterday, slumped in his chair, getting the mother of all tongue-lashings in a forum he expected to be a cakewalk for his oily propagandistic rhetoric:

Muslims, individually and collectively, are not accustomed to the notion that their faith can be openly subjected to public scrutiny. After 1400 years, they are facing an opponent that has never been in the ascendent -- vocal, capable commentators en masse, presenting coherent expositions of the awful truth about Islam, so that they cannot hide, their apologia pales in comparison to the flood of truth, and they are meeting only limited success trying to plug the dam by bluster, threats and legal action.

Oh yes, critiques of Islam have always been around -- but they have always been across the great divide, in Dar al Harb, and didn't have to be dealt with in great numbers at the same time. Those in their own camp were dealt with summarily, and those outside were distant voices who could be largely dismissed as ignorant of Islam. But the world is too small nowadays for any such separation of Islam from its critics. The numbers of those critics is surely overwhelming to them. Take all the knowledgeable non-muslim commentators over the centuries -- and there have been a good few, very good scholars -- and roll them together: they would equal only a small fraction of those with the knowledge and resources today to expose the heart of Islam without the Islamist sugarcoating and whitewashing.

They are not accustomed to being in a world where they don't receive special status, where their faith is not regarded as above criticism. They have no idea how to weather the kind of critique that has been thrown for centuries at, for example, the Christian faith by a surrounding skeptical, highly critical, and inherently unsympathetic, society.

Those of them who have any brains will realise that the waves of scrutiny to which Islam is being exposed today are only a trickle compared to what comes next, as they manage more and more to make the case that they are part of "mainstream western society". They perhaps are only realising now that they have opened Pandora's box.

Once they are mainstream here, they are no longer "other", and the strength of the "PC invulnerability cloak" they have enjoyed thus far begins to wane. In due time, assuming they are successful in becoming "normalized" in the west they will begin to feel the full force of the kind of critique Christianity has weathered for 2 centuries now, and survived. But will Islam survive this kind of scrutiny? I seriously doubt it. Particularly now that the question of inherent violence, and what this means in very specific terms, has come to the front. For many who are just waking up to this threat, the huge chasm between the Islamic take on violence and that of the JudeoChristian mindset is very obvious -- it takes only a superficial glance to see that the two are worlds apart, and the conviction that this is so only grows as one's familiarity with the sacred texts, and how they are used in the two traditions, deepens.

I think if I was an Islamist, I would also be panicking right now, lashing out, trying almost anything to hold back the tide. But it has taken on a life of its own now; it no longer depends on the isolated voices of Spencer, Pipes and crew. Academia is next, unwilling as they may be, to be dragged kicking and screaming into the light of truth; they will soon be subjecting Islam to the same treatment as other western faiths have received for many decades now in the classroom -- I predict a feeding frenzy once it picks up momentum.

Posted by: Archimedes2 at September 25, 2007 5:01 PM

They should monitor mosques, sermon content, and activities therein.

They should also monitor churches and synagogues. Sikh temples, Buddhist meeting places and so on.

The job is too big to expect our professional cops to handle, so this should be set up in a neighborhood-watch-like system.

In fact, in order that the people doing so get a proper perspective on things, I would insist that the SAME people who monitor mosques also monitor christian churches. I'd like to see their report after attending Friday prayers with a message on Sura 9 and then Sunday worship with a sermon on Matt. 5. It would be an experience we could wish on every blurry-headed dhimmwit who thinks that the two faiths are morally equivalent.

Oh, that the majority of our society could have the two faiths laid out in such plain terms on a daily basis. As a Christian I revel in the thought -- not so much in evangelistic terms (though I expect regular exposure to christian teaching would likely have something of an effect of this sort), but because it would greatly help to alleviate the mindless comparison of the two faiths as if they were minor variations on a theme. If more of our society had been through this exercise, Spencer's latest book would have been much less necessary.

Posted by: Archimedes2 at September 25, 2007 5:11 PM

Champ,
I read your story on a prior thread and it just makes me wonder about the American Muslim community?
I assume the people who said "you don't want to know" didn't agree with the imam's sermon. But then why did they continue to go to that mosque?
Are their loyalties divided? When push comes to shove, which will they choose - freedom or Islam?
Will they betray their fellow Americans?

Posted by: PMK at September 25, 2007 5:48 PM

One good turn deserves another -

Greetings in the Name of the Lord God, who said through His prophet, "Each man shall walk in the name of his own god, and I shall walk in the name of the Lord."

Or, as Krishna said to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, "However men choose to serve me, so do they approach me."

This is why I, as a religious Jew, can feel so comfortable with a polytheistic Hindu. There's no desperation to save me from a god who can't abide the thought of another religion out there somewhere.

I'm not buying into either extreme in this argument. One needn't be a fundamentalist of a Western religion, or a believer of any sort whatsoever, to simply become aware of the toll of millions of lives in just the last few decades of the war of Islam against Baha'i, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Sikhism and Zoroastrianism. That's what unites all of us on this site with even the strongest disagreements - we just want to live our lives the way we choose. We want to live, period!

Posted by: Surak at September 25, 2007 6:29 PM

"Are their loyalties divided? When push comes to shove, which will they choose - freedom or Islam?"

A very few will follow Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, right out of Islam. Some more will attempt to hold on as Muslim-for-identification-purposes Muslims, possibly pretending to others, and even to themselves, that they can somehow "reform" Islam and convince one billion primitive Believers to accept the suggested "reforms" -- though of course no details are ever given or can be given, as to the passages in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira that would have to be excised. Those who tell us that Muslims can stick merely to the Qur'an delude themselves, or possibly attempt to delude only us, that the Qur'an all by itself, is menace enough, is more than enough.

For almost all Muslims -- 98% or more -- who will, knowing full well what is in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira -- and yet continue to identify themselves as Muslims, the question you ask about divided loyalties remains moot. There can be no divided loyalty for Muslims. They are clearly taught that their sole loyalty is owed to Islam and to fellow Muslims, members of the world-wide Umma. The very idea of a Muslim pledging his allegiance to an Infidel nation-state, and meaning it, and yet remaining a good Muslim, is absurd. It misses entirely the point of Islam, the whole structure of Islam as a Total System, demanding total loyalty.

End of story.

Posted by: Hugh at September 25, 2007 6:29 PM

A reminder: This is a non-sectarian site. No proselytizing.
Posted by: MarisolJW

Hey! I resemble that remark!
(/sarc)

Ok, ok...I know..."shut up, smart aleck!"
LOL
j/k
:-D

Posted by: jcom972 at September 25, 2007 6:34 PM

Getting a lot of the I am a such and such and I think this and that lately. We don’t see it too often but when we do it should be a red flagged. If someone starts off their post with I am a such and such, I automatically start thinking what are they really? I think they are desperate and lashing out trying to put some of the blame for their behavior on the other non lethal religions. Like Archimedes2 posted they are not used to the scrutiny or to our challenges of their irrational beliefs, they are used to bullying to get their way. Keep it up, humiliation is worse than death, their words not mine.

“Will they betray their fellow Americans?”
Faster than you can say infidel.

Posted by: tgusa at September 25, 2007 6:36 PM

Why King is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxSW4j_T3MM
Muslim Man Arrested In Michigan With Assault Rifle

September 13, 2007

Now how many more areout there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHYC4ekzg60&mode=related&search=

July 06, 2006
God love the Brits!

Posted by: Catherine at September 25, 2007 6:38 PM

Catherine,
Zorkot the magnificent was last weeks news here. We all browsed his website we know he liked lions, tigers, jihad, naked fat men running in the desert and pretty boys. Nothing new there.

Posted by: tgusa at September 25, 2007 6:47 PM

PMK --

Very good question; and because my husband is sitting right here working alongside me I asked him your questions because he is the one who spoke to these two guys -- I only heard about it later.

He said, "It wasn't that they didn't agree with what was being said in their Mosque; they didn't tell me what was being said because they KNEW that I would not approve of the rhetoric. They continued to go to Mosque on a regular basis because they wanted to become more Orthodox in their faith."

More Orthodox!! Hmmmm.....

I also asked my husband if they ever displayed any 'suspicious' behavior while working for him and he said that they didn't, but we all know that that doesn't mean ANYTHING. In fact, I believe it's only part of their strategy so not to raise any red flags.

Neither my husband or I know for certain whether or not they would betray their fellow Americans, but based upon their desire to become more "Orthodox", then I would have to give a hearty YES! Scary, huh.

Posted by: champ at September 25, 2007 6:51 PM

I am seriously laughing out loud right now. I read all of your hatred comments, and I find myself getting upset. But then I just laugh, because I feel sorry for all of you blind people. So blind. Although I try not to be judgmental, I feel like most of you deserve to be judged very harshly.

I will address some of the comments made on this board directed towards my comments. One, someone said the evangelical church preaches love, love, love, love, love. Hmm. . . I suggest you watch the documentary "Jesus Camp." It talks about the propaganda taught in the evangelical church as well as the hating of anyone who is different than themselves. Yet I am intelligent to know that these few ignorant churches don't represent the entire religion.

And I would ask some of you who questioned my Christianity what kind of Christian are you? I know what I believe. And I also know what God and Jesus represent in my life. I laugh at those who judge other people's religions and beliefs. I laugh and feel sorry for you at the same time. It must be SO stressful to live your life feeling so much hate. All your hate represents is your lack of knowledge on the subject. Hate is just fear in disguise.

I welcome you all to go on and hating all muslims, or whatever group you are deciding to hate at the moment. I guess I have bigger visions than that. I believe if we all just understood each other, greater good would come from this world.

I will not be on this site again. I can feel myself getting dumber by the minute just reading your comments and your hatred.

I would like you all to take a good look in the mirror though, and ask yourself if Jesus would be proud of you? I'm guessing no. Jesus was different and he was persecuted because of it. You may as well be the people who nailed him on the cross, because that is the kind of hatred I am seeing.

Okay, I'll have some good laughs about all of you the next few days. I can't wait to tell all of my friends about the stupid people who have access to the internet. Ha!

Posted by: leaho at September 25, 2007 6:59 PM

Catherine,
Zorkot the magnificent was last weeks news here. We all browsed his website we know he liked lions, tigers, jihad, naked fat men running in the desert and pretty boys. Nothing new there.

Posted by: tgusa at September 25, 2007 6:47 PM

WELL SOME OF US ARE IN A TIME WARP

And the point being that as the story goes he was just confused?
But had problems
But he was in his 3rd year of Med you ask?

Where do you think he got his evil thoughts what would make a med student paint his face and carry a gun through a park?

So King is right these places need to be looked at?

Posted by: Catherine at September 25, 2007 7:00 PM

"...I think you need to make a distinction between people and schools of thought. I believe in the fundamental dignity of every human being (which is just one reason why I oppose Islamic sharia law). But human beings, as rational creatures, can and must make critical judgements with respect to the beliefs and opinions around them-- even the ones they were raised with." Posted by: MarisolJW

I agree wholeheartedly.

Posted by: Josephine at September 25, 2007 7:06 PM

"I can't wait to tell all of my friends about the stupid people who have access to the internet. Ha!"

Feel the love, folks.

Posted by: champ at September 25, 2007 7:13 PM

"...Muslims, individually and collectively, are not accustomed to the notion that their faith can be openly subjected to public scrutiny. After 1400 years, they are facing an opponent that has never been in the ascendent -- vocal, capable commentators en masse, presenting coherent expositions of the awful truth about Islam, so that they cannot hide, their apologia pales in comparison to the flood of truth, and they are meeting only limited success trying to plug the dam by bluster, threats and legal action..." Posted by: Archimedes2

Well said.

Posted by: Josephine at September 25, 2007 7:18 PM

Champ,
Thanks.

How many American Muslims are like these two and
seeking "to become more Orthodox in their faith"?
Orthodox? Do they know what that means?

Leaho,
Excuse me?

No one started out judging Islamic beliefs. For most of my life Islam was just another religion. Blissful ignorance is no longer an option. It's the Muslims' actions that got all the scrutiny. It's their actions, which they used their religion to justify, that got people to studying Islam.

By their deeds ye shall know them.

Posted by: PMK at September 25, 2007 7:35 PM

“So King is right these places need to be looked at?”Posted by: Catherine
Yes he is right, it should be a no brainer but you know our pols. Who does the guvment think runs their communities? The imams at the mosques spread the message week to week that’s why we see the rage fests almost on cue, it is on cue! Close your eyes and imagine these mosques are bases, they are in reality the main bases. They provide communications, storage, money they all have a close connection with the surrounding community so they can delegate the jihad related work. You might say they are joined at the hip it’s a requirement. The imam through the mosque relays the commands to the believers. It is actually quite ingenious I will give them credit for that. This is one reason why they have gotten away with what they have for so long. They pretend they are only worshippers like any others but really it is command HQ. The Blob, people underestimate it cause it travels so slow.

Only in movies do we see the angry killer that forcibly abducts their victims that type of killer gets caught quickly. Most serial killers don’t have to do that their victims go along freely. They are friendly, unthreatening and therefore able to kill over and over without being caught right under the noses of a society that punishes murder severely. Yet they continue to get away with it again and again for decades and some times they are never caught. Now imagine a society where this exact behavior is displayed and murder is not only condoned it is commendable even award worthy. So lets say there are 20% of 2.25 mil, that is 400,000 plus. What if we look at the other side and it is 80% that would be 1.5 mil plus.

Posted by: tgusa at September 25, 2007 7:47 PM

"I will love the Muslim Jihadist as he blows himself up next to me and my family as we dine."
-Leho

This crap reminds me of the stuff Frank Zappa was poking fun at the brainless hippies of the 60's.

Mr. King, like Mr. Churchill, sees the evil in its cacoon. Americans still were not convinced Hitler and his henchman had an agenda when all the evidence was pointing to it. Unfortunatley, Mr. King's perceptions will be sought after as more and more American corpses turn up at the hands of the Islamists. This is what England asked of Churchill as the Nazi mob arrived at her doorstep.
Leho, instead of protecting ourselves and eliminating the evil and the ideolgy that promotes it now, as innocent Americans burn later, the vigalante mobs will go after all Muslims. This is what your inaction and what I call "immature" attitude toward Islam will bring about. People like you will cause more destruction then those who try to muster truth amongst a sea of political correctness regarding Islam and the seeds of supremicism, hatred and a psychotic theology that feeds upon the worse elements of the human soul.

Posted by: Briars at September 25, 2007 8:22 PM

Leaho, you sound like you might be a recent 'born again' Christian.

Please, bear in mind that Jesus taught us to be meek, but he also taught us to be wary, and not to accept false prophets who would come after him and deceive "many". He did clearly state that there would be prophets after Him, but He did say to beware of the false prophet who would "deceive many". At this juncture, I believe we're looking at 1.2B fellow humans who have been unjustly deceived. Many of them thirst for your blood and your death.

He also taught us to judge each 'tree' by the fruit that it produces, and He gave us certain warnings to follow. Consider the fruits of islam.

May I suggest that you read and study the Beatitudes as well as Matthew 24 (entire chapter), and pay full and careful attention to the words written in red ink. Consider checking out Emmet Fox; an author who wrote of spirituality at the turn of the Century.

While it is certainly admirable to "love all", you must not "love all" to a fault; meaning your death or the death of your family at the hands of a cult that hates you, despises you, and thirsts for your death or conversion. Remember, the Devil is the author & father of confusion and deception.

Make sure that the early seeds you sow are firmly rooted, and be prepared to stand strong.

Best regards,
an Infidel (in the eyes of allah)

Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at September 25, 2007 8:51 PM

I really have a problem with "monitoring" mosques. That opens the door to "monitoring" other religions, and then we end up with religious persecution. Already we have a commenter who wants to monitor Evangelicals because he alleges that they "hate".

That's how witch hunting starts.

Secondly, I don't see how we can do it, logistically. Maybe the comment about the neighborhood watch is feasible.

I just wish we can stop immigration of Muslims altogether.

As for Peter King, he is an advisor for Rudy Giuliani regarding Homeland Security. It sounds like Giuliani is on the right track. As much as I don't like his social liberalism, I think he has the cajones and the will to protect American interests abroad and fight Islam at home. It also appears that he is leading as the RNC Nominee. If he wins, I will certainly vote for him over Hillary Clinton.

Posted by: atheling at September 25, 2007 9:02 PM

I really have a problem with "monitoring" mosques. That opens the door to "monitoring" other religions, and then we end up with religious persecution. Already we have a commenter who wants to monitor Evangelicals because he alleges that they "hate".

That's how witch hunting starts.

Secondly, I don't see how we can do it, logistically. Maybe the comment about the neighborhood watch is feasible.

I just wish we can stop immigration of Muslims altogether.

As for Peter King, he is an advisor for Rudy Giuliani regarding Homeland Security. It sounds like Giuliani is on the right track. As much as I don't like his social liberalism, I think he has the cajones and the will to protect American interests abroad and fight Islam at home. It also appears that he is leading as the RNC Nominee. If he wins, I will certainly vote for him over Hillary Clinton.

Posted by: atheling at September 25, 2007 9:06 PM

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is unfortunate that leaho now turns away in defensive anger, name-calling and saying that s/he will not be back, simply because questions were asked.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I do so enjoy hearing the perspectives of other people of faith, who I consider my allies in the fight against belief systems that seek to devalue and destroy.

And I apologize if I seem heavy-handed on expressing the fact that I am a follower of Christ; it's just that Muslims always use a standard greeting, and I wish to counteract that with the words of the Bible. But I will restrain and omit any further attempts at proselytizing, since I have the utmost respect for JW and DW and the moderators.

Have a wonderful evening, everyone!

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 25, 2007 9:22 PM

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is unfortunate that leaho now turns away in defensive anger, name-calling and saying that s/he will not be back, simply because questions were asked.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I do so enjoy hearing the perspectives of other people of faith, who I consider my allies in the fight against belief systems that seek to devalue and destroy.

And I apologize if I seem heavy-handed on expressing the fact that I am a follower of Christ; it's just that Muslims always use a standard greeting, and I wish to counteract that with the words of the Bible. But I will restrain and omit any further attempts at proselytizing, since I have the utmost respect for JW and DW and the moderators.

Have a wonderful evening, everyone!

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 25, 2007 9:29 PM

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is unfortunate that leaho now turns away in defensive anger, name-calling and saying that s/he will not be back, simply because questions were asked.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I do so enjoy hearing the perspectives of other people of faith, who I consider my allies in the fight against belief systems that seek to devalue and destroy.

And I apologize if I seem heavy-handed on expressing the fact that I am a follower of Christ; it's just that Muslims always use a standard greeting, and I wish to counteract that with the words of the Bible. But I will restrain and omit any further attempts at proselytizing, since I have the utmost respect for JW and DW and the moderators.

Have a wonderful evening, everyone!

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 25, 2007 9:31 PM

oops, sorry for the multiple posts. It's going crazy on me!

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 25, 2007 9:34 PM

I have been to many a church service, never heard any thing that could remotely be considered anti western. No church has ever discussed politics, law or government with me. The church has a several hundreds year history here without trying to take over the government. The mosques are fairly new and yet we are already seeing so much trouble. By all means monitor them both that makes perfect sense, islamist sense (pure). Don’t be shocked when the report says, all they did was sing songs, pray and listen to a sermon on some lesson from the Bible. They can go with me if they like that is if they aren’t already there, unofficially. Beware of false prophets, or posters, do not be deceived.

Posted by: tgusa at September 25, 2007 9:34 PM

A reminder: This is a non-sectarian site. No proselytizing.
Posted by: MarisolJW

Glad to read this. Proselytizing is not only a turnoff. It's boring and annoying at the same time.

I am here to fight islam because I want to protect my hard-won freedom FROM religion of ANY kind.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at September 25, 2007 10:04 PM

Farewell Leaho, and good luck. If I may ask, did you bother to read any of the articles posted on this site; you know, the articles that we discuss in the "comments" section? If you have read some of them, don't they concern you, disturb you, FRIGHTEN YOU?!

Don't worry your empty little head about us; we'll survive the islamic seige because unlike you, we have chosen truth and reality over political correctness and moral relativism. Return to your cozy cocoon, snuggle up to your teddy bear, and go back to sleep. Too bad your misplaced angst is not directed at the real culprit, but willful ignorance is difficult to overcome. And by all means, have a good laugh. When reality finally penetrates your thick skull, you won't be amused.

We might hate islam, I certainly do, but who has claimed to hate muslims? Who?

Posted by: Susanp at September 25, 2007 10:11 PM

"I believe in loving and accepting everyone."
"I believe that I have no right to judge."
"I think it's great to believe whatever it is you want to believe."

This is an absurd and extremely dangerous attitude. A guaranteed way to become a completely disoriented, weak and mindless slave.
I'm not an expert on Christianity, but If this is really what modern Christianity teaches, I advise christians to get rid of this ridiculous hypocrisy as soon as possible.
It's not healthy to have a suicidal mindset.

Posted by: Syndic Nuruodo at September 25, 2007 10:16 PM

"Okay, I'll have some good laughs about all of you the next few days."

Hmmm, forget the fact this is the work of someone masquerading as someone other than an outright islamist...
...sounds like a threat, not that we're going to be surprised at what her fellow terrorists have planned...especially after hearing her hero's de facto declaration of imminent war...

So, when her other hero mahdi shows up from the depths of the Earth...ooops, I mean, a well...we shall see who's going to be laughing.

Posted by: jcom972 at September 25, 2007 10:22 PM

Posted by Leaho:

As a Christian, I believe that I have no right to judge.

And yet you're posts are quite judgmental. How exactly is that not hypocritical?

I'm not sure what particular flavor of Christianity you claim, but if I were a member of your church, I'd be rather embarrassed by your behavior here.

Posted by: Greg Z at September 25, 2007 10:47 PM

"There is not one religion better than another, nor is there a religion more dangerous than another."
-- from a poster above

As Hugh more eloquently details, this is the exact battleground we as intellectual patriots of the West must meet our over-educated PC Multi-cult friends upon. For despite their years of education and entrenched positions in publicly-funded day care centers at our major universities, the liberal intelligentsia who set the PC agenda are actually intellectually lazy and quite obviously morally bankrupt as well. To accept the "all points of view are equally valid" argument is as intellectually vapid as to subscribe to some crazed notion such as "all peoples of the earth must submit to Allah or perish." Both require little thought and provide maximum psychological protection.
But you could argue with these people to the end of days and never get them to abandon their childish notions, which act as the last lifeline able to pull them out of their fetal position each morning and face the Big Bad World again. These are the geeks, the cowards, who have been hiding behind their clever books since Junior High in hopes they don't get their glasses knocked off their noses.
Well, we read books too. We know where the sun rises and sets, and we live in a world of reality knowing that our hopes and dreams, won by effort and honest intellectual inquiry, are precious but fragile things that require vigilance and often violence to maintain.
We know how to build a just society, we know how to maintain a just society, and we know how to protect a just society.
No worries though: while the PC elite holds us up in court, aiding and abetting the enemy which by night continues to work toward its next big attack, we won't have to worry about them anymore. They will be the first ones running to Canada when the shit comes down. Good. Better off without them around for it.

Posted by: JohnAdams at September 25, 2007 10:48 PM

leaho doesn't judge anyone...except us.
leaho doesn't hate anyone....except us.
leaho is going to go back to the really smart people , who are really, really nice.
/blech

Posted by: interestinconundrum at September 25, 2007 10:56 PM

tgusa -- I'm with you. I've never heard anything anti-American in the 32 years that I've been attending different churches; and it was also alleged that evangelical churches spew hatred towards gay people, but nothing could be further from the truth! I don't know what Christian churches leaho is referring to, but I've never witnessed it in my travels. The only thing my current church talks about is how to improve on ones own spiritual growth, not on how to hurt others thru jihad.

My church isn't perfect because I go there, but I can't think of a single thing that I would want hidden from a curious on-looker. Anyone is free to visit and scrutinize my church because I have nothing to hide.

Posted by: champ at September 25, 2007 11:28 PM

Wanna bet that the troll was a Muhammedan da'wa creep?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 26, 2007 12:02 AM

Yes exactly champ, just the same as thousands of churches in hundreds of places.

No thanks sheik, that’s a bad bet.

Posted by: tgusa at September 26, 2007 12:54 AM

Sheik, exactly why is Abu Anus allowed to spew such hatred in Australia, including the overthrow of the government? Why don't they deport him? Let me guess--oppressed refugee?