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An update on this story. "Official Links German Terror Plot to Syrian Arms, Pakistani Operatives," by Spencer S. Hsu and Craig Whitlock for the Washington Post:
Three terrorism suspects arrested this month in Germany had acquired detonators that originated in Syria and received direct orders to act from operatives in Pakistan, the German interior minister said Tuesday.
The minister, Wolfgang Schaeuble, told reporters in Washington that the detonators were smuggled into Germany from Syria through Turkey and that the suspects were days away from acting on plans to target Americans in Europe. He did not disclose further details about the connections to Syria and Turkey, adding, "We don't really know more."
"We know that this is a clear network, highly conspiratorial," Schaeuble said after two days of meetings with U.S. security officials, including Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. "The demand came from Pakistan . . . 'You should go on for action. Do not go on preparing for months and months and months, but now is the time to take action in the first half of September,' and they did."
[...]
German officials said the suspects had trained at camps in Pakistan run by the Islamic Jihad Union, a Central Asian network based in Uzbekistan and Pakistan. U.S. and German investigators said they were examining whether al-Qaeda operatives may have been involved in organizing the plot but have not uncovered firm evidence of a connection.
[...]
Some interesting and unfortunate information:
In Germany, it is not against the law to attend a terrorist training camp outside the country.
German lawmakers are debating whether to change the law but have been unable to find a solution. Some legislators have said that it should not be illegal simply to attend a training camp and that prosecutors should have to prove intent to engage in terrorism; others argue that such an approach would be impractical.
Schaeuble said authorities know of several citizens and residents of Germany who have returned after attending militant camps in Pakistan but lack evidence to charge them with any crimes. At least three remain under surveillance, he said.
"We know we have a lot of people in Germany who are suspected of becoming terrorists," he said. "It is a delicate issue. We don't have enough evidence to make it a legal situation. But we know they are linked to a terrorist network. . . . Now we have to watch them."
Posted by Marisol at September 27, 2007 2:05 AM
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We all know that the only way Germany and the rest of Europe will save themselves from certain doom is to immediately close the borders to all Muslim immigration and free travel.
But, that ain't gonna happen, because these same governments signed away the rights to their lands and citizens decades ago in exchange for oil. So long as the Western world is addicted to oil, it will never pry itself free of the Islamic domination encroaching on all fronts.
Posted by: Suziq![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 27, 2007 2:23 AM
Suziq-- from what I can tell, you might need to adjust your link so the actual url only appears once. The multiple occurences are causing our filter to flag it as possible spam, even though it isn't.
I hope that helps, and makes sense (it's pretty late).
Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor
at September 27, 2007 2:39 AM
From the article:
Some legislators have said that it should not be illegal simply to attend a training camp and that prosecutors should have to prove intent to engage in terrorism; others argue that such an approach would be impractical.
Lawyers know that proving intent is very difficult. You have to prove beyond a doubt what the person was thinking at that moment, which is difficult since many of us are not mind-readers. Unless the suspect says or writes down "I want to engage in terrorism", it's going to be difficult to prove.
But, as jaded as I've become, I'm still stunned at this paragraph. Who are the legislators who feel it is their duty to protect the right of jihadists to attend terrorist training camps?
This is beyond the realm of satire. We (or at least the Germans) are now entering a state of clinical psychosis.
Posted by: special_guest at September 27, 2007 3:03 AM
Schaeuble said authorities know of several citizens and residents of Germany who have returned after attending militant camps in Pakistan but lack evidence to charge them with any crimes. At least three remain under surveillance, he said.
"We know we have a lot of people in Germany who are suspected of becoming terrorists," he said. "It is a delicate issue. We don't have enough evidence to make it a legal situation. But we know they are linked to a terrorist network. . . . Now we have to watch them."
Two things.. those "citizens" may very well be Syrian-Germans or Lebanese-Germans or Turk-Germans or they may be the offspring of the many whom my leftist government foolishy allowed into my country by the millions.
NOT that this absolves Germany. Our electorate should have KNOWN BETTER whom they chose to elect for so long. And for the most part continue to vote for.
The German people should have known better than to swallow the MSM propaganda once again.. given the way that our media served the Nazis from the get-go "back then"!
We should have known better!
Second.. "We know we have a lot of people in Germany who are suspected of becoming terrorists,"
Yep.. then they joined the Nazi party, the SA and the SS.. now are we going to join the jihad??!!
I say to my fellow Germans loud and clear: You only get so many second chances.
I really am in pain having to say these things. The truth HURTS. It F*CKING HURTS.. sorry..
And I apologize for these fools.. what can I *DO*??!
Posted by: Allahfanculo at September 27, 2007 3:09 AM
"In Germany, it is not against the law to attend a terrorist training camp outside the country"
It is against the law in Britain but the law only seems to be used when they try to put the training into practice. After all we do not want to cause community tensions.
Posted by: Fred at September 27, 2007 4:00 AM
'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'- right?
They would probably arrest you if I went for military training to Israel.
They used to arrest recruiters for the French foreign legion. How is it different to train for jihad?
at September 27, 2007 4:24 AM
correction: should read
'they would probably arrest you if you went for military training to Israel-'
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 27, 2007 4:29 AM
@ topic dilemma on laws dealing with terrorism:
Isn't it illegal there to have anything to do with nazism?
Hint, this may help:
http://terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/
It would be a good start.
Posted by: jcom972 at September 27, 2007 5:22 AM
But, as jaded as I've become, I'm still stunned at this paragraph. Who are the legislators who feel it is their duty to protect the right of jihadists to attend terrorist training camps?
[...]
Posted by: special_guest
Those legislators started as members of the "Greens" [see Joschka Fischer the stone thrower-punk who now LIVES in the USA!!] party then they were quickly joined in their madness by the "Sozis" [SPD] [former Chancellor G. Schröder.. 'nuff said].
Now even the "conservatives" are running along with the crowd.. we have NOONE left to vote FOR!
I and a small minority of Germans DETEST the FREAKS who have infested not only German politics to the highest levels. We are often found blogging on Politicallyincorrect.de.. vilified by the MSM and even the TV stations which we are made to pay for by the guvmint.
Our media, politics an our academe are already over run with moslems.. It is SO disgusting!!
I am already beginning to think how can we get our art treasures the HELL out of there before the moslems star to ransack the place..
No WONDER I cannot fall asleep tonight.. what a NIGHTMARE!!!
at September 27, 2007 5:45 AM
...in the US authorities are carefully watching many individuals suspected of plotting terror....(and some are known to be illegally in the country)....one can only assume they are watching to see whom the individuals contact, where they go, and what activities they partake in, in order to accumulate more data....
...it is a shame that they don't just round them up and deport them immediately......they could do that, but the MSM and the wannabe dhimmis would throw conniption fits......
...it is better to treat cancer in its early stages....it is always better....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 27, 2007 6:31 AM
@ sheik yer'mami:
"They used to arrest recruiters for the French foreign legion. How is it different to train for jihad?"
That’s an interesting point … in Germany it’s against the law to recruit Germans for foreign armies.
… But you may join the army of Allah?
--------
@ Allahfanculo:
"Now even the "conservatives" are running along with the crowd.. we have NOONE left to vote FOR!"
To put it with John Kerry: "… help is on the way!"
--> http://www.ulfkotte.de/20.html
In 2009 for the first time you will be able to vote anti-islamistic in Germany.
at September 27, 2007 6:36 AM
..."received direct orders to act from operatives in Pakistan,..."
....here is that Pakistan connection again....The Pakistan connection appears often when Muslim terrorists are caught or killed in a battle.....
Ban Muslim Immigration....Ban travel to Pakistan...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 27, 2007 6:43 AM
"...U.S. and German investigators said they were examining whether al-Qaeda operatives may have been involved in organizing the plot but have not uncovered firm evidence of a connection...."
....perhaps they should check out the Seventh Day Adventists Dude Ranch in Lahore....
at September 27, 2007 6:45 AM
"Some legislators have said that it should not be illegal simply to attend a training camp and that prosecutors should have to prove intent to engage in terrorism."
Why else would you attend a terror camp?
Posted by: Elric66 at September 27, 2007 8:38 AM
"Why else would you attend a terror camp?
Posted by: Elric66"
....you are secretly doing an individual undercover investigation in order to discover Islamic secrets and to present your findings the the security agencies of your nation....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 27, 2007 9:06 AM
exsgtbrown,
LOL I dont see the MSM doing that. But I do see people using that as an excuse
at September 27, 2007 9:17 AM
"In Germany, it is not against the law to attend a terrorist training camp outside the country."
What a joke
Posted by: Sneakyzionistcrusader at September 27, 2007 10:08 AM
""In Germany, it is not against the law to attend a terrorist training camp outside the country."
What a joke
Posted by: Sneakyzionistcrusader "
...is it against the law to return to Germany after attending terror indoctrination camps outside the country....?>...should be...
at September 27, 2007 10:26 AM
By the time we are all done ranting about these problems, the shooting war will come as a relief.
Posted by: Foehammer at September 27, 2007 10:35 AM
Some legislators have said that it should not be illegal simply to attend a training camp and that prosecutors should have to prove intent to engage in terrorism”
Standard liberal-headed stupidity. These irresponsible fools want to behave as if it were pre 9/11 or even pre 90s. The world has radically changed and they can’t accept that until many more of their innocent citizens are blown up. I guess that’s what it will take before politicians call for the obvious.
at September 27, 2007 11:09 AM
"By the time we are all done ranting about these problems, the shooting war will come as a relief.
Posted by: Foehammer"
....absolutely......amen....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 27, 2007 11:10 AM
When will the Germans wakeup to this islamist threat that is worsening?
I want to see them go nuts and kick out those welfare abusing bums.
The Germans and their taxes should not be paying for this crap.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at September 27, 2007 11:21 AM
Yep, the truth hurts. Sad but true.
Germans ripped off and then murdered about six million Jews, and further murdered about six million Christians a lot of whom were trying to defend those unfortunate Jews.
The attack by these jihadists was to be on the West and less on Germany, which initially welcomed them in.
Not sure whether Germany wants a second chance much less that it would get one. First it would have to get a lot more serious about the threat we are presently facing.
Sad but true.
Posted by: dgene at September 27, 2007 12:21 PM
--> http://www.ulfkotte.de/20.html
In 2009 for the first time you will be able to vote anti-islamistic in Germany.
Posted by: Israel_Hands
That Ulfkotte turned out to be a windbag. He threw the people who protested in Brussels on 9/11 under the bus.
I won;t bother you with the details.. but it was a rather sad affair. He definitely ha d anegative effect on turnout. Many people were misled that the demo was cancelled because Mr. Ulfkotte said so in the media.
Posted by: Allahfanculo at September 27, 2007 2:34 PM
Yea lets go ahead and just watch those known linked to terrorism,wait till they kill someone or attempt to kill them then do something.
Like i keep saying there is a limit to freedom.How many of our enemy nations would allow thier citizens to go westward for military training? If our enemy nations know of these trained people what would they do to them?
Why don't the leaders of the free world pull thier heads out of thier butts and show the terrorists and thier friends that freedom and democracy is not one of thier jihadi tools,at least not any more.
These people they are watching don't deserve the freedoms they are afforded.
Just like the sickening banter that imanutajoba has rights while here in America.How the hell does he have any rights here? He never earned any and only spits on them. I guess the American citizens rights are handed out like candy to children,but then all you have to do is break into the country and start demanding and YOU WILL GET IT.
Germany is far worse off than we are.I suggest they start figuring it out before thier country goes back to the rubble it pulled itself out of.
--------------------------
"...U.S. and German investigators said they were examining whether al-Qaeda operatives may have been involved in organizing the plot but have not uncovered firm evidence of a connection...."
Does it really matter if it was Al qaeda or hamas or fatah or hezbulla?Military training in a country that is at war with you (whether you are at war with them or not) is still NOT cool.
What do these people have for brains ? MUSH?
If these people are not getting military training from a military that is not allied or to be in direct service to that nation there at home can only mean one thing.
How about every country just allow terrorists to train in thier countries,provide everything they need,pay them to lay about to boot and we can all sit back ,wait for the events, and then look to our dear leaders to give us the answers as to what occurred,how it occurred and by whom.
That solves a lot.
Posted by: Dar al-harb at September 27, 2007 4:40 PM
" In Germany, it is not against the law to attend a terrorist training camp outside the country.
German lawmakers are debating whether to change the law but have been unable to find a solution. Some legislators have said that it should not be illegal simply to attend a training camp and that prosecutors should have to prove intent to engage in terrorism ... "
- - - - -
So according to the Germans, attending a terrorist training camp does not prove intent? Do they think people attend soccer training camps because they want to improve their golf game? Do people take art/painting classes because they want to improve their scores in the high dive? Who are these "some legislators" and what do they use for brains?
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at September 27, 2007 5:18 PM
So according to the Germans, attending a terrorist training camp does not prove intent? Do they think people attend soccer training camps because they want to improve their golf game? Do people take art/painting classes because they want to improve their scores in the high dive? Who are these "some legislators" and what do they use for brains?
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at September 27, 2007 5:18 PM
Gold Star for you!
ROTFL
Posted by: Catherine at September 27, 2007 9:01 PM
Well, think about it Catherine...
(yes, excellent point)
Since when does ANY government, especially those that reek of political correctness, use the absolute complete opposite: common sense, when implementing laws?
lol
Posted by: jcom972 at September 27, 2007 10:55 PM
do you think our saudi loving state dpartment reads this blog
so maybe they can get a clue that all these muslim groups are connected no matter their nom du jour?
Posted by: ploome at September 27, 2007 11:26 PM
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