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More concessions? By Amir Shah for the Associated Press:
KABUL, Afghanistan - A mother and her two children boarded a police bus only seconds before a suicide bomber detonated his payload inside, an attack that killed 13 police and civilians Tuesday, the second such bombing in Afghanistan's capital in four days, police and witnesses said.
Four children were among the 13 killed by a man wearing a pakul — an Afghan hat commonly worn in the country's north — and a shawl around the upper half of his body called a chador, said witness Amin Gul, who owns a metal-working shop next to the blast site.
"When the bus came, an old man got on, then a woman with two children, then the guy wearing the chador entered, and then a big boom," said Gul.
Ten people were wounded in the attack.
The seats in the front of the bus were covered in blood and small body parts, and the vehicle's roof was blasted away, leaving a crumpled hulk of bent metal.
Ahmad Saqi, a 20-year-old mechanic, said he helped put seven people in vehicles for runs to the hospital, and that several of the wounded had no legs.
"One woman was holding a baby in her arms, and they were both killed," Saqi said. "Half of the woman's face was blown off."
The blast killed eight police, the mother, her two children and two other children, said Health Minister Mohammad Amin Fatemi. The children ranged in age from 2 to 8. The two unaccompanied children had been heading to a special school for handicapped students, he said.
"The woman's husband is working at the health ministry. How do we tell the father his wife and two kids are dead?" said Fatemi. "This attack goes against all of Islam. There is no reason to blow up Muslims, especially during the holy month of Ramadan. My message to these people: Please stop killing Muslims."
Not "please stop killing people," or "please stop killing Afghans." Then, the obvious question: What if they were non-Muslims?
Posted by Marisol at October 2, 2007 9:01 AM
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Obviously what is needed here is a 10 day waiting period to purchase bombs coupled with a program that would allow thorough background checks of anyone interested in buying explosives. They just don't have tough enough bomb control laws over there. Muslims don't kill people, bombs kill people. Won't they ever learn?
Posted by: billyoblog![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 2, 2007 9:13 AM
A totally filthy and disgusting act from a follower of the religion of peace, again. Come to think of it that's par for the course is it not?
The most dangerous thing Muslims have to confront is other Muslims.
at October 2, 2007 9:21 AM
Muslims, please stop killing Muslims. And please stop killing the rest of us.
I guess "please" doesn't work so we'll have to move on to corporal punishment.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at October 2, 2007 9:25 AM
This is such a cowardly thing to do. At first I thought that they should go after the family of these cowards but I don't know how that would work out overall. There has to be brain storming as how to stop these sorts of acts by governments. But, then I think of how these governments are so controlled by the 'religious' leaders. I have said this before - these 'religious' leaders need to be looked at as officers in this war.
More and more I am convinced that islam is a disease and this is what happens to a society when it degenerates.
The message 'to stop killing muslims' is a sick message too. This idea that they are on a fast track to heaven if they do such a thing, but to think that muslims are some sort of special thing while everyone else on this earth is not - is sick. They are sending a message to not stop killing, but to just kill infidels instead. Hence this also tells us they won't go after those who surrounded this sick murdering thug.
Muslims will jail for untold years those who try to change islam, and do nothing to murdering thugs - or maybe slap them on their hands.
Posted by: R_not at October 2, 2007 9:32 AM
All of these phony Muslims complaining about fellow Muslims behaving just like their "prophet" Mohammad (killing to terrorize others into submission) are getting tedious.
It is perfectly "Islamic" to slaughter people randomly in order to strike fear into the hearts of the survivors so that they will submit to the will of terrorizing Allah.
All they have to do for the terror to stop is: to submit to the Islamic terrorists completely.
Or...
They could admit that Islam's dogmas are the root cause of such inhumanity and terror, and fight this cult.
To all Muslims:
Become heroic apostates.
Destroy the Koranically/Islamically-sanctified terror.
Or it will destroy you.
Posted by: profitsbeard at October 2, 2007 9:38 AM
...Islam is a thrill kill machine,, the Muslim terrorists do not care whom they kill....
....perhaps if the victimized Muslims started denouncing the Muslims terrorist leaders and stopped supporting them things might change ....The Muslim terrorists follow the Qur'an....and as was written long ago:
"So is the Qur'an the Mein Kampf of the totalitarian, supremacist movement that is the global Islamic jihad? If we take seriously the words of the book itself and how they are used by jihadists, then it clearly is their inspiration and justification. Are we to ignore the jihadists' clear statements on this because they offend contemporary sensibilities? The challenge for genuinely peaceful Muslims today is to confront this fact, rather then deny it as Islamic apologists in the West so often do, and try to formulate strategies for a large-scale rejection of literalism in the Islamic community in America and worldwide, so that Muslims can coexist peacefully as equals with non-Muslims without the continuing recrudescence of this supremacist impulse.
Can it be done? The odds against it are prohibitive. But we do not do genuine Muslim reformers any favor whatsoever by denying that there is any work they need do with the Qur'an and Islamic tradition, or by pretending that the source of the problem is other than what it is.
Posted by Robert at December 8, 2005 8:06 AM"
at October 2, 2007 9:49 AM
And maybe they were expecting REASON to come from the pathology of perversion/rape/slavery/murder?
Wake up world, and smell the death. It may be your own......
Posted by: n.a. palm at October 2, 2007 9:55 AM
I have talked to some of our soldiers returning from Iraq and I am told that there are good people over there who embrace Islam. Yet it is difficult to find a Muslim in this country who will condemn without reservation this kind of murderous activity. it is high time that all of us who are not Muslim stand up and fight off the political correctness that is enabling Muslims to intimidate us.
Posted by: Andy at October 2, 2007 10:04 AM
Regarding Karzai's offer to the Taliban; I think this may be a shrewd move on his part. Given the wavering of some NATO countries in Afghanistan, and their reluctance to take a combat role, Karzai may have intended to show the true nature of the Taliban. If this is the case, the Taliban took the bait.
Posted by: johnb at October 2, 2007 10:18 AM
"it is high time that all of us who are not Muslim stand up and fight off the political correctness that is enabling Muslims to intimidate us.
Posted by: Andy "
...it is high time that we fight off the political correctness that allows Muslim immigration....
Ban Muslim Immigration...
at October 2, 2007 10:18 AM
Andy,
I would suggest that if "the good people over there who embrace Islam" didn't, they'd be dead.
They're always one BLT sandwich away from being beheaded.
Posted by: billyoblog at October 2, 2007 10:20 AM
Not "please stop killing people," or "please stop killing Afghans." Then, the obvious question: What if they were non-Muslims?
Actually, many Muslims believe Muslim = people and non-Muslim = non-people. So to Muslims, "please stop killing people means the same thing as "please stop killing Muslims" This explains how they can kill the infidel as coolly as slaughtering a goat.
Posted by: Charles Bogle at October 2, 2007 10:51 AM
At Frontpagemag this morning, Robert skewers the liberal gays in America for not speaking out against the persecution of homosexuals in the Muslim world. Great article.
The silence of the gay community in the face of such persecution in the Muslim world is the mirror image of the silence of Western feminists in the face of the Islamic persecution of women. In both cases, ideology trumps their respective raison d'etres.
It is the worst kind of short-sightedness.
Posted by: Cornelius at October 2, 2007 11:05 AM
"It is the worst kind of short-sightedness.
Posted by: Cornelius"
....just wait until the black American Muslims find out what Islam has in store for them....talk about short sightedness....yep...
at October 2, 2007 11:42 AM
ANDY: "I have talked to some of our soldiers returning from Iraq and I am told that there are good people over there who embrace Islam."
RESPONSE: There are indeed good Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan, fighting with - and dying - alongside our soldiers.
This goes to the heart of my disagreement with proponents of withdrawal. There ARE differences between Muslims...and not just confessional (Shia vs Sunni). King Abdullah in Jordan is infinitely preferable to a potential radical regime that might replace him. Karzai is certainly preferable to the Taliban. And on and on.
To suggest that we ought to cut our ties to the Muslim world because it doesn't matter WHO is in power there is just short-sighted.
CONVERSELY, a moratorium on Muslim immigration to the West is a valid (though completely improbable) course, even if it keeps out the good with the bad. This seeming contradiction is NOT an incongruity; it makes perfect strategic and tactical sense. Even "good" Muslims have a fidelity to there doctrine. The fact that they are less malevolent than their radical counterparts doesn't mean they don't present a challenge to us.
We should empower moderate Muslims in their own domain - (as we are doing) - at the same time that we keep them out of Dar ul Harb (as we are not).
Posted by: Cornelius at October 2, 2007 11:57 AM
"I have talked to some of our soldiers returning from Iraq and I am told that there are good people over there who embrace Islam."
-- from a posting above
Well, of course there are. The sympathies of the troops would naturally be with those whom, they are told, they are risking their lives to help. Soldiers have not been instructed in the ideology of Islam, nor in the history of Islam. Islam is not something you can "see" in front of you. What is in the minds of men, or potentially is in the minds of men, cannot be "seen" and so is seldom, if ever, reported on.
And they meet people, often, who are poor and simple folk, and there is a natural tendency to attribute to these people, out of a normal human tendency (and the American troops are on the whole very good-hearted, and also, though rough and tough in other ways, innocent of the doctrines of Islam or the history of Islamic conquest), all kinds of virtues.
Furthermore, their encounters with people in Iraq may be skewed. There are the Kurds who are genuinely grateful to the Americans, and whose pesh merga can be counted on, and the Americans may be mistakenly impressed with this particular subset of Iraq's Muslims, who are "on our side" but are really "on our side," for now, because they are grateful for past American protection, and hopeful that they will retain, or perhaps gain, American support, for any move from present autonomy to future independence.
And many of the "Iraqis" these troops meet -- the staff in the Green Zone, the interpreters -- are skewed, with a heavy representation of Christian Iraqis (the same waiters, drivers, and other domestic staff, largely Christian and trustworthy because they wouldn't dare be involved in any coup, upon whom Saddam Hussein relied, were inherited by the Americans). Now if you were a Christian working for, or coming into contact with, American soldiers in Iraq, what, knowing what could happen to you, would you report to them about Christian-Muslim relations? You know perfectly well what you would do. You would minimize the problem. You would maintain that "there had never before been a problem" -- and by the way, you would at this point prefer the Sunnis, or at least the old Sunni elites, whose "secular" (a word to keep in quotation marks, so as to signal its special meaning) ex-Ba'athists would likely be less of a danger to the country's remaining Christians, than the newly-empowered Shi'a, of the distinctly non-secular (no Ayad Allawis among them) variety, who have inherited most of Iraq.
And what of the Shi'a and Sunni Arabs those soldeiers have met? Of course they would meet the nicest representatives, the ones who wish to cooperate with them. Of course they will also be the recipients of all kinds of protestations of sincere friendship, not all of it feigned, and but almost all of it necessarily dependent on the current perceived need for those Americans, for protection against local enemies, and for the constant handouts, of weapons and money, and the desire to have the Americans remain is not a vote of friendship for them, and collaborating with them, as in Anbar Province, is purely out of self-interest.
No one should assume that because someone is a strapping soldier or officer, who risks his life, he cannot at the same time be a naif about Muslims, especially when the entire situation sets those soldiers up to wish for, to hope for, to see the best in those they meet, and to focus on the handful of Arab officers who may put their hands on their heart Arab-fashion and assure them, like the Arabs in the Cairo souk assuring Western clients to whom they have just offered a stupendous bargain "because, you see, effendi, I love you more than I love my father, I love you more than I love my mother."
Yes, there are a handful of Muslims who have decided they will not take seriously what the Qur'an and Hadith tell them to think about, how to treat, Infidels. But so what? It is not the exceptions, what Ayaan Hirsi Ali calls the "passive" Muslimis 9when she curtly dismisses those who talk about so-called "moderate Muslims as the solution"), who make, but rather -- as the old saying goes -- prove the rule.
Officers and men who make judgmwents about "nice Muslims" on the basis of the best they have met with, should think carefully about, analyze those encounters. For example, memories of those sweet-looking and poor children, so very different from the spoiled American brats you instinctively compare them with, who have so much while these children have so little, and just look at their childish faces as they walk away, holding triumphantly aloft their booty -- those bags of candy, those soccer balls -- that the American soldiers take such good-hearted delight in distributing (and not a few of those soldiers have been killed, shot or blown up, while distributing those toys, that candy, those soccer balls). Or you are most impressed with your interpreter (is he a Muslim? and if he is a Muslim, what kind of Muslim is he -- one who takes Islam seriously, or one who does not?), or that tremendously trustworthy group of Kurdish gardeners tending to the roses and palms in the Tikrit palace of Saddam Hussein), or those cleaners and cooks who turn out to be Christians, Assyrians or Armenians, but you had no clear idea, just as you have no clear idea that this or that Muslim officer you have come to trust is trustworthy to precisely the extent that he is not a good Muslim, but rather someone who chooses to ignore the clear texts of Islam, whether out of conviction, or temporary self-interest.
All of this must be kept clearly in mind, by the officers and men who may be tempted to draw, on the basis of highly skewed evidence viewed through the filter of wanting to believe in the "mission" and wanting to believe that their own time in Iraq was not misspent, and wanting to believe that there is no real problem with "Islam" or "Muslims" but only, as the frederick-kagans of this world would have you believe, with this new, mutant form of Islam, one that has arisen recently and has no deep roots in traditional Islam (just read "The Legacy of Jihad" and you will never think that way again), which is of course a pleasing thought. It pleases some civilians, such as Bush, and some analysts, such as the kagans and kristols. It pleases all those who believe We All Are The Same, We All Want the Same Thing.
It's nonsense. But it takes a clear head to see, amidst all the wishes and hopes and wasted effort and dreams and schemes, a clear head that, furthermore, has been filled with understanding that comes from the un-filtered-by-apologists study of Islam.
Sense can be made, by officers and men, of their own experience in Iraq, if they now take down and read. What should they read? Oh, "The Dhimmi" and "Islam and Dhimmitude." "Onward Muslim Soldiers" and "The Truth About Muhammad." "The Legacy of Jihad" and "While Europe Slept" and "The Raft of Muhammad" and "The Al Qaeda Reader" and the studies of a hundred Orientalists, scholars of Islam who wrote in the conditions of mental freedom that existed before an army of Muslims and non-Muslim apologists for Islam, descended on the universities, burrowed within the academic system, or were given lots of Saudi and other Arab money to staff new "Centers" for "the study of Islam" all over the Western world, and are part of a carefully-premeditated campaign to shut out, or to shout down, all those who refuse to collaborate, and insist on studyi Islam without any of the apologetic nonsense that passes for scholarship, too much of the time, today.
Posted by: Hugh at October 2, 2007 12:06 PM
"There is no reason to blow up Muslims, especially during the holy month of Ramadan. My message to these people: Please stop killing Muslims."
There is no reason to kill anyone. This shows the contempt Muslims have for the lives of others. Al-Q has alot of "bad" Muslims to kill. I hope that becomes there focus.
I have no simpathy for Muslims.
Posted by: Ruebacca at October 2, 2007 12:20 PM
Evil allah is never satisfied; as more blood needs to be spilled on the alter of allah's insatiable hatred for man and for God. When will Muslims wake up from their hypnotic state and tell allah to bite the dust, and then turn to the One True God?! Turn from this evil!
You will know them by their fruit -- good fruit or evil fruit.
Posted by: champ at October 2, 2007 12:27 PM
More and more I am convinced that islam is a disease and this is what happens to a society when it degenerates. Posted by: R_not
islam is a degeneration: such that it stifles normal human inquiry and liberty. It is a reign of terror in the life of a person. Mustn't question, mustn't be curious, mustn't ponder the shortcomings of my prophet, mustn't think too long on the nature of my god, who is surely, according to the Koran, quite schizophrenic and changeable. Most of all, mustn't get out of line because my "brothers" after all, find it their duty to kill me if I dare do anything they would consider "unislamic".
Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at October 2, 2007 12:43 PM
Poor little children.
Is islam still the fastest growing religion?
Wow, if they keep killing people in Afghanistan and Iraq....that will at least cancel out new "reverts".
Just too bad they kill their babies and old folks, should be the young testosterone fueled mujahadeen.
at October 2, 2007 12:43 PM
Why do the muslims and their apologists make such a big deal about the fasting at Ramadan? Seems the only time they can't eat is between sunup and sundown, then from sundown to sunup they can gorge.
I do his almost everyday myself. Get up at 4am and eat at 4:30am, sun ain't up. Get to work at 5am and work most days til 7-8pm, sun gone down. Go home and eat supper. Do it again the next day. I also try and refrain from sex during my working hours, if possible. Damn, I must be a muslim!
at October 2, 2007 1:04 PM
So where are the Muslim "leaders" and others rushing to the streets to protest this cowardly act of murder of Muslim women and children? No, the same Muslim men who burn effigies and protest in the streets over some cartoons couldn't care less about the deliberate slaughter of their own by their own.
I just do not understand how we in the West might whisper a mild criticism of Islam, but scream when the late Jerry Falwell would make some comment about homosexuals or whatever. Oh the "fanaticism", the "fundamentalism" of merely spouting one's opinions. It's not as if Falwell and his followers were out stringing up a bunch of lesbians from the nearest tree...
But I guess if this government admits that Muslims are NOT like the rest of the world, i.e., the West, then all the American deaths have been in vain, and then, what's next? I suppose we can continue with the delusion that "democracy" or "freedom" will eventually take root in the Middle East or we ponder the alternative...
Posted by: HOV Dummy at October 2, 2007 1:56 PM
Allow me to correct:
"This attack is the ESSENCE of all of Islam. There is no reason to blow up anybody, especially during the unholy month of Ramadan. My message to these people: Please start killing Muslims instead of those who are wise enough not to involve themselves in this satanic cult."
Posted by: Allahfanculo at October 2, 2007 8:54 PM
From Health Minister Mohammad Amin Fatemi:"Please stop killing Muslims"
The insinuation being that worthless Infidels are okay. Because we're worthless, you see.
Wonderful stuff. And NATO countries are ploughing billions of taxpayers dollars into this gov't.
And now the Taliban, with NATO backing, are having talks with the gov't.
Wonderful wonderful stuff.
Posted by: ewha1 at October 3, 2007 1:49 AM
From HOV Dummy " But I guess if this government admits that Muslims are NOT like the rest of the world, i.e., the West, then all the American deaths have been in vain, and then, what's next? I suppose we can continue with the delusion that "democracy" or "freedom" will eventually take root in the Middle East or we ponder the alternative...
Hear hear.
Posted by: ewha1 at October 3, 2007 1:51 AM
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