Our trustworthy allies.

Posted by: joeblough at October 24, 2007 10:04 AM

Turks and Iranians attacking the Kurds. Iranians cooking up nukes. Political murder bombings in nuclear Pakistan. It's just a matter of time before a jihadist gets his hands on a nuke and they will not hesitate to use it.

Posted by: ironman at October 24, 2007 10:13 AM

Much as I sympathize with the desire to establish a Kurdish homeland, the fact is that Turkey is acting in self-defense. The Turks are no saints, but they are doing nothing wrong here. The United States should not expect them to look the other way when their soldiers are murdered by Kurdish separatists.

Posted by: Karl Pov at October 24, 2007 10:47 AM

Our trustworthy allies. by joeblough

Joe, are you talking about Turkey or the Kurds?

When the Kurds perpetrate an attack in Turkish territory, the Turks have every right to respond.

If we think that the Kurds can somehow be made to cooperate with the us (United States), think again. It would be in the Kurds best interest to restrain themselves, but they cannot.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 24, 2007 10:48 AM

President Pelosi is charge now.

Posted by: mike trivisonno at October 24, 2007 11:07 AM

Turkey’s got 80,000 troops massed on the border. Hopefully they’ve been fully trained on protocol regarding innocent Iraqi civilians. Surely they would enter as liberators, not conquerors. Any display of the Turkish flag would be quickly squashed by senior officers and the Iraqi flag would be put up in its place.

It would be wrong to show anything other than deep respect for Iraq and the Iraqi people. After all, they have a good soccer team.

Posted by: pez at October 24, 2007 11:31 AM

I've said it before, the best thing for all parties involved would be to set up an independent Kurdistan in Mesopotamia that would renounce territorial ambitions in Anatolia. Such an entity would be allowed to stand silent as to territorial ambitions in Persia or Syria, at least for the time being, but Turkey gets territorial integrity out of the deal.

And Kurdistan acts like an independent state anyhow.

Posted by: Greek Fire at October 24, 2007 12:06 PM

Various US regimes have armed everyone in the MI to such an extent, that we have created several Frankenstien monsters. Now we don't know how to control them. Arming everyone in sight is still going on, creating more monsters. This is a very stupid policy, guaranteed to blow back in our faces. How many Americans in Iraq have been killed by American supplied arms and explosives? Lots, and you can place that blame on short sighted, ignorant politicians with an (usually self serving) agenda.

Posted by: duh_swami at October 24, 2007 12:08 PM

Don't blame this one on the United States. I think it great that another country takes the blame this time. I can't fault the Turks for acting in self-defense. Just wait until the "Kurdish genocide" is blamed only on NATO's Turkey, with no metion of Saddam or his cousin, "Chemical Ali".

Posted by: CTYankee at October 24, 2007 12:29 PM

If Turkey can bomb a country because of rebels held up in another country, then so can Israel, India, Afghanistan, and Lebanon.

The world only screams when Israel does it. Someone should point that out to the MSM.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at October 24, 2007 12:50 PM

If Turkey can bomb a country because of rebels held up in another country, then so can Israel, India, Afghanistan, and Lebanon.

I think Turkey's position is the same, but in reverse: If Israel can do it (as in the case of last year's invasion of Lebanon), then so can Turkey.

Posted by: Seamus at October 24, 2007 1:49 PM

Duh_swami, The US did not supply or sell arms to "everyone in the MI." Historically it was the US and the USSR supplying weapons. Saddam didn't get his T-62s, 55s, and MIG fighters from the United States. Egypt and Syria, among others, were also supplied by the USSR. After 1979 we cut off all military aid to Iran.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 24, 2007 2:49 PM

The Republic of Turkey may have once been a friend of The United States, based on perceived mutual self interest, but Turkey is a friend no more. The majority of the population of Turkey supports Islamic Fundamentalist Prime Minister Ergodan. Mr Ergodan recently threatened the United States with even less support against Islamists than before. Recall when the government of Turkey refused to allow American forces to use our bases in Turkey for the land incursion into Iraq. Despite cringing appeals by the Bush Administration, the Turks are massing troops to invade Iraq themselves. The bombing has begun. They claim "Kurd terrorism" as their justification. They have played this card before.

The most popular film in Turkey last year was the extreme, vehemently anti-American, "Valley of the Wolves." This depicts murderous American soldiers in league with an organ-harvesting Jewish doctor. Now it is a television series. Recent polls reveal that Turks are among the most anti-American and anti-Christian peoples in the world.

The US needs to redeploy its forces in the region to potentially more friendly countries, perhaps Armenia, Kurdistan, or Greece. We need to terminate Turkey's NATO membership and oppose their entry into the EU.

We should condemn the unrepentant Turks for their government directed murder of Armenians as they stand posed to commit the same crime against the Kurds.

Posted by: Alek at October 24, 2007 3:14 PM

...just in case anyone did not notice"

Bad guy weapons: (none are US Manufacture)

1) Mostly AK47's . The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the desert than the M16, and the Russian 7.62 mm round kills reliably. PKM belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly are bad shots. Undisciplined " spray and pray" type fire. However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. (Iran, again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's just say they know better now.

2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple, reliable and as very common. The enemy responded to our up-armored Humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still killing a lot of our guys.

3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan's area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately, they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically designed to penetrate armor.

Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's why the attacks have been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.

4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets (with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan's NCO's lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire". Jordan's base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a matter of seconds.

5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units for navigation and "Google Earth" for overhead views of our positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.

Who are the bad guys (remember that is what the Captain called them!) Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate mostly in Anbar province & Fallujah and Ramadi. These are mostly "foreigners", non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world (and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the knowledge and complicity of the Syrian govt.), and then travel down the "rat line" which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we've been hitting hard for the last few months.

Some are virtually untrained young Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in "sacrifice squads". Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.). These are the guys running around murdering civilians en masse and cutting heads off.

The Chechens (many of whom are Caucasian), are supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters (they have been fighting the Russians for years).

In the Baghdad area and south, most of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local govt.'s, the police forces and the Army. They have had a massive spy and agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's. Most of the Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long ago.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at October 24, 2007 3:25 PM

Gee, I wonder what the US reaction will be to Turkey's messing up the only relatively stable part of Iraq.
Will W reward the Turks with yet another $18,000,000,000 of our tax dollars, as he rewarded them in 2003 for stiffing us and not even letting our military to pass through its territory into Iraq?

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at October 24, 2007 3:36 PM

...by the way...Iran has never acceded to the land mine ban......

Posted by: exsgtbrown at October 24, 2007 3:39 PM

'Allah Wants This War'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,513071,00.html
By Maximilian Popp in Istanbul

The mood in Turkey is becoming increasingly jingoistic as thousands take to the streets, calling for war against the Kurdish rebel organization PKK and an invasion of northern Iraq. But Baghdad has promised to curb the Kurds.

Anger drives them on to the streets, anger provoked by the images of dead soldiers shown on Turkish television. Thousands of demonstrators walk along Istiklal Caddesi, or Independence Avenue, Istanbul's longest shopping street. They are calling for war: War against the Kurds, against the PKK, against Iraq. "We have waited long enough," reads one poster. "Allah wants this war," is the message on another.

Posted by: aggiegabe at October 24, 2007 4:26 PM

One doesn't have to like the Turks very much to realize they are in the right here. The Turks treatment of all non-Turks in Turkey is repulsive (as is the treatment of all non-Muslims) but given the state of Iraq, the Kurds are fools for allowing a the PKK a safe haven.

Posted by: Jerry M at October 24, 2007 7:45 PM

I'm sure nancy pelosi's happy as hell about her subterfuge (that of using something unrelated to force change in foreign policy, which this result was, in turn nothing BUT the result of her coup attempt) that's now blown up in her face.

Posted by: jcom972 at October 25, 2007 1:38 AM

Shame on you! You should support PKK, many assyrian christians have found refuge in Kurdistan. On Sunday the Turkish army announced it bombed an area along Iraq's northern border in retaliation against attacks by fighters for the Kurdish Workers¢ Party (PKK) who had infiltrated Iraqi Kurdistan. The
village that was hit, Enishke, is Christian.

Kurds are doing what Greeks, Armenian, Cypriots and Assyrians did not do; which is respect and to fight the bloodiest nation on the world. It not turkey on self-defence but the kurds. There are daily incidents with burning of Kurdish houses all over turkey but media are closing their eyes on this. I think that all the Greek diaspora and Cypriots should finance something like PKK. Turkey is a barbaric nation and they do not understand from treaties and stuff like that. They understand only the word of war. Fully support PKK.

P.S. why not to call gray wolves a "terrorist group", what's the difference?

Posted by: chris at October 25, 2007 5:14 AM

"Young turks"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks

1.5 million Armenians were killed in the regime of the "Young turks".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

The "Young turks" (including the kurds) were responsible for the Assyrian genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_Genocide

Posted by: arjun.sevak at October 25, 2007 5:55 AM

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/ss_turkey_10_22.asp
pelosi's now-exposed subterfuge is a dead horse.

Posted by: jcom972 at October 25, 2007 8:22 AM

Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks did not die from froze, most of them were executed or murdered at the spot, can you get it or not? Stop reproducing turkey's propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_eyewitness_accounts_related_to_the_Pontic_Greek_Genocide

Turks massacred the 2/3 of the assyrians, how can you tolerate such a nation?

Pelusi did her job! Neo cons care only for money, they do not have any ethos! Bush should go to live in Turkey 1

Posted by: chris at October 25, 2007 9:43 AM

Enragedsince1999, if the Kurds wanted stability they would stay out of Turkey, but they can't. If the Kurds wanted to help their liberators (United States) thet would stop the cross border attacks. After all these generations, they appear genetically predisposed to violence.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 25, 2007 10:41 AM

thanks to chris for showing he doesn't bother to read the posts...then again, he's not interested in "getting" anything, but pushing his own ideology-
thank you noam chomsky.

pelosi took an otherwise indisputable issue, and used it for a coup, which also failed, and made a bad situation worse...an issue which had ZERO to do with genocide, and EVERYTHING to do with usurping foreign policy WAY beyond her authority, which amounts to an attempted coup...so save the pahblum puking dead-horse...she lost, and it backfired in her face. pelosi doesn't give a rats ass about anyone, not the armenians, not the kurds, nobody...she cares about one thing-her power and control, which she just found out she doesn't have, and only served to cripple her own aims-she got her wings clipped like the plebe she is, and reminded of her role.

I know this because her "kingmakers" told me-before it happened.
But...do continue the ideological spew...I find such dead-horse vitriol most amusing, much like a 3rd grade tantrum that also didn't work, much like the subterfuge she tried to pull.

;-)

Posted by: jcom972 at October 26, 2007 12:37 AM

@ jcom972

Last nite Bush and his government decided to give "for free" 4 fregates to Turkey. What's USA's stance to a country that 30 years ago commited a genocide against christians in cyprus and turned christian temples into mosques and barracks, while they sold antiques on smuglers.

Is this your "good ally"? Kurds have a nation of 30 million people, dont they deserve their own land? At the meatime USA promotes the creation of Kosovo-Metojia, a holy land for every orthodox. In kosovo since 1989 Albanian jihadis have forced natives serbs to leave their own land with the help of mujahedins.

It seems very odd to say "i am in favour of freedom and democracy" but at the same time to support turkey and kosovo.

Posted by: chris at October 26, 2007 2:18 AM

Oh is it a bad time to mention this too?:
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=199445
(no, I'm no fan of turkey, but less of a fan of communist 5th column elements trying to usurp power exclusive to the President, which was what this issue was ALL about)
Hmmmm, gee, what a coinkadink!
He bails at the same timeframe as the collapse of the pelosi putsch...wonder why that is?
Oh yeah, forgot...
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/6/30/104915.shtml
conflict-of-interest
(as well as her lowest ratings in history, 11-14%, her own turning on her to "end the war" as she finally admitted as her obsession just the other day "We must end this war," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said after the president spoke on Monday. (from an unrelated article Oct 22), thus giving away her entire gameplan.
Well, she TRIED to "end this war", by using that very same "cause" completely unrelated to it, because, knowing that 70% of airborne freight moves through there, it would force Bush to end the war, period...not only did it not, but she made matters worse, all to no benefit of anyone, save iran & her iranian investments.

nothing "odd" about it...
doing something otherwise noble isn't a big deal,
but using it for purposes other than honest and forthcoming reasons, clearly and unmistakably usurping foreign policy, way above her role, IS a big deal, and this was just that...using something for purposes completely unrelated to it, which she most certainly did...the malicious timing and malicious motivations, which are undeniable now, say it all.

She backed off to avoid inevitable charges of treason...REAL treason.
She got busted
she's licking her wounds
she will never recover from this, and all the ideology that keeps perpetuating this overdone issue won't help revive the obvious.
It's a dead horse...keep beating it or get over it.
The subterfuge is history.

Posted by: jcom972 at October 26, 2007 2:47 AM

So, since you regard you republican heroes as "good and fair politicians", why they do not recognise the armenian genocide?

Posted by: chris at October 26, 2007 4:50 AM

again, see a doctor for that detatchment syndrome.
Had my posts been read, both here and previous threads, such a repeated (loaded) and retarded question wouldn't have been asked, but apparently that's not possible since their ASSumptive ideology is in the way of their better juudgement.
R-E-A-D them...starting with this one...A-G-A-I-N:
http://www.anca.org/genocide/reagan.php
Made 25 years ago...(newsflash-he IS a Republican) and the vast majority of his party agrees with him, then and now...it's old news...they DO recognize it- but that's not why the persistency of this dead horse issue...

...and knock off the feigned ignorance and ASSumptions. They don't fool any knowledgeable person.
(here's another newsflash- I'm not a Republican)
case-in-point, ASSumptions are the mother of all f**kups, and such foolishness assumes a great deal.
Get a clue, kid...and try the infantile freshman leftist ideology on someone else.
I shot those ideologues down in flames decades ago.

Enjoy beating the dead horse...the rest of us have already moved on to the next subject.
Enjoy the Kool-Aid, too.
;-)

Posted by: jcom972 at October 26, 2007 5:34 AM

yeah ok, so wot?

Recognition can occur with a bill, not with statements. Make the genocide of armenians, greek and assyrians equal with the jewish holocaust, that a fair solution

Posted by: chris at October 26, 2007 6:25 AM

http://www.regnum.ru/english/897320.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={CF822C12-9767-4914-A254-20BFB27329B7}

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/democrats-split-on-genocide-resolution-2007-10-16.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/16/AR2007101601457.html

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/pelosi_turkey/2007/10/16/41296.html

http://www.newsmax.com/limbaugh/turkey_resolution/2007/10/16/41241.html

http://www.newsmax.com/koch/hostile_turkey/2007/10/15/41036.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,302497,00.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/10/congresss_new_role_undermining.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=957D1353-62EE-40FB-81E0-8E25602449B4

Posted by: jcom972 at October 26, 2007 7:50 AM