| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Dhimmi Watch | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog | Raymond Ibrahim | Robert Spencer |  |
|
|
|||||||||||
|
|
The idea that Bush will only be safe if he converts to Islam is in accord with Muhammad's words to the Jews of Bait-ul-Midras: "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe." But otherwise: "You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
Abu Bakar Bashir also says that the Bali bombers were counterterrorists. This is one reason why it is not enough for Muslims to condemn "terrorism," when those identified as "terrorists" reject the label. But so far spokesmen for CAIR, for example, have resisted calls to be specific and condemn Hamas and Hizballah particularly as terror groups.
Note also the repeated emphasis on Islam, the declaration of fidelity to the Qur'an, the affirmation of Osama bin Laden's Islamic orthodoxy. Yet all week, all over the country, Muslim and non-Muslim college students, full of righteous indignation, have loudly protested against the Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week speakers as if it were we who have made the equation between Islam and supremacism and violence. They would do better to take up their arguments with people like Abu Bakar Bashir.
"The voice of the Bali blast speaks: Abu Bakar Ba'asyir," by Philip Smucker in Asia Times (thanks to all who sent this in):
ATol: What role does the US play in the war against radical Islamic groups in Indonesia and beyond?Ba'asyir: The US is a tool for the Zionists. The US has a program and has a crusade that is being carried out in an unfair way, which is by spreading the message that there is Islamic terrorism in this world and basically all the enemies, all the terrorists are Islamists and all the people who fight for sharia law. Everyone who is active is left with the stigma that they are terrorists. They are being arrested and imprisoned.
Yes, there are cases when some persons in some Islamic groups carry out bombings here in Indonesia. It is also unfortunately the case that they are bombing places that are relatively safe. It is easy for them to become prey to US efforts to stigmatize all Muslims.
What "US efforts to stigmatize all Muslims"? Note that this is being said by one of the intigators of the Bali bombing. He is doing quite well to stigmatize Muslims without any outside help.
ATol: Have you rethought your initial approval of the Bali bombings?Ba'asyir: The bombers were carrying out their acts in Indonesia, a relatively safe place. When events occur, they [are] taken as justification by the government and US. They say, "See what the Muslims are doing, this is why we have to fight terrorism!"
ATol: So you are saying that bombings in safe places - like Bali and at the Marriot Hotel in Jakarta - are bad ideas that give ammunition and fuel to the Americans?
Ba'asyir: Yes.
ATol: Are there young Indonesian Muslims bent on engaging in jihad against the United States? How strong is this movement?
Ba'asyir: Among the youth, many want to fight the US because of the aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan. And in Indonesia they attack US interests, but I think it is a mistake to do that here in Indonesia against US interests because Indonesia is a safe place, a safe country, safe from conflict.
So I, for instance, I prefer that it be done through dakwa, through preaching. America is instigating a war of ideas, therefore we should fight back with our own war of thoughts, issues, preaching.
ATol: So you are condemning the Bali bombers?
Ba'asyir: No. The bombers are actually counter-terrorists because they are opposing US terrorism. They are mujahids.
ATol: How do you fight back against what the US government is doing and saying? What is your strategy?
Ba'asyir: What we try to do is counter the lies, break down the lies. We want to uncover the truth that the Koran teaches. This activity in and of itself is much more productive and efficient than bombing because just by doing that - preaching the truth - I am being called all kinds of things. There was even an attempt to take me to Guantanamo, [Cuba] but fortunately I was saved by Allah.
ATol: You call the Bali bombers counter-terrorists, but some would argue that by calling them counter-terrorists, you are encouraging them to engage in this activity.
Ba'asyir: What I was saying before is that what they were intending to do was right. However, the method was wrong, they were bombing a safe place, so the point here is how you do it as well - the method you use.
ATol: Don't you think you are encouraging more young men to bomb?
Ba'asyir: They are not terrorists, they are not instigating terror, that is not their intention. They want to fight terror. I don't think that by saying this that it will encourage them. Only the method is wrong. But it is not right to call them terrorists. Theirs is a reaction, not an action.
ATol: Many people think that students who have attended your school here have taken their inspiration from Osama bin Laden. Can you tell me what kind of an influence he has been on students in your school and on young people in Indonesia?
Ba'asyir: Generally, the influence of [bin Laden] is good. His intention to fight the US is good. However, the methods and steps that he uses are not necessarily to be applied here in Indonesia. You have to take heed of the situation, but generally speaking it is good.
Again, the steps he uses in other countries are not necessarily applicable here. Some young Muslims here clearly idolize him and others would not. There are also students who have quit the school, my school, because they would not necessarily agree with his teachings.
ATol: Do you think [bin Laden] is a positive inspiration on young people in Islamic world in general?
Ba'asyir: Generally it is positive. What he is trying to teach, to pass on, is jihad against the US. He opposes US terrorism against countries. Jihad can be done through arms and can be done through words as I'm doing now - as preaching.
ATol: Has the US military's failure to catch bin Laden made him even more of a hero in the Islamic world?
Ba'asyir: As long as his intent is to uphold Islam, God willing he will always be safe and saved by God. You can start to see the effects now. Western power is weakening and, on the other hand, Osama has linked up with the Taliban and others and is gaining power. I always believe that in the end Islam will have victory. Whoever is trying to block or fight Islam will eventually lose. Therefore all the sacrifices will bear fruit.
ATol: What are the tools you use to fight back against George W Bush's "war on terror"?
Ba'asyir: For Islam, the truth is Islam. There were many prophets but Mohammed was the last and he trumps the others. We spread the truth, or dakwa, orally, over the radio and Internet; through all kinds of technical tools.
ATol: Do you think the US is getting the message that [in regards to Iraq] it may be inspiring more terrorists than it can possibly kill?
Ba'asyir: I'm sure that many Americans understand they are losing the battle in Iraq. We can see - at least domestically - that there is more pressure against the war. And there is no doubt that the US is failing and losing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
However, President Bush is a very stubborn man. He is very extremist. But this is also one of God's ways of destroying his entire crusade. Allah is letting him be stubborn, be himself and, in doing so, he creates all this mess and therefore eventually it will end in defeat.
ATol: So, you think it is a message from God but that Bush doesn't understand the message?
Ba'asyir: I have written a letter to Bush saying he should not use God's name to destroy Islam. The only way that Bush can survive is for him to do what is being ordered by God which is to believe in Islam, to convert to Islam. If he wants to be safe he should take up Islam.
ATol: Do you think it is possible for the US to change foreign policy and to live in peace with Islam?
Ba'asyir: In Islam, you cannot force someone to convert to Islam. But what is fair and just is Islamic law. It is quite possible to have peace with the US, but the US has to distance itself from Israel or decide not be used as a tool by the Zionists. But peace is the objective of Islam - to live in peace.
Under the rule of Sharia, that is.
Posted by Robert at October 26, 2007 5:40 AM
Print this entry
| Email this entry
| Digg this
| del.icio.us
Ya know, in another genre this drivel of theirs would pass as a comedy skit-it's so absurd.
Posted by: jcom972![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 26, 2007 6:09 AM
Not to worry, the Kos kidz have the answer:
Converting to Islam to achieve peace is quite okay, check here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/24/0320/2227
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at October 26, 2007 7:55 AM
Why is it that every time I read what muslim leaders and clerics say, I feel as if I'm standing on my head? Up is down, wrong is right, light is dark, good is evil. They twist everything around to fit their islamic view of the world.
Mr. Spencer and the others like him who work so hard, have uncovered "the truth that the koran teaches". Too bad so few people are willing to listen and learn.
And don't forget, it's all the fault of the "Zionists" as usual.
Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at October 26, 2007 8:07 AM
sheik,
sounds like the dailykook'sters have been sipping on a little too much Kool-Aid?
ImNoDhimmi,
it's ok...that's the feeling ya get when your head's trying not to explode from having to listen to all the relentless tripe emanating from that horizontal cut under their noses, which never heals because it won't stop moving.
lol
at October 26, 2007 8:22 AM
shiek-yer-mami
A little tune to the music of one of Jimmy Buffet's songs.
Down in Guyana where the happy folks live
Everybody doing what Buana Jim say
He say Kool Aid --- cyanide
credit to the Mad Beach Band--Madeira Beach 1979
Posted by: Aunt Bea at October 26, 2007 8:31 AM
Dear Jihad Watch Readers,
My comment today is not exactly a propos of Mr. Spencer's post this morning, though I do have some thoughts to share on this website and Mr. Spencer's writings.
Might I request that you take a look at the newest post on my "blog", in which I consider the role of Mr. Spencer's polemical style and what effects it might have on his influence?
The URL is http://superfluous-man.blogspot.com
Yours,
SM
at October 26, 2007 9:00 AM
More warped logic from the Destroyers. All of this jihad against the US is because of the US invading Afghanistan and Iraq. Well, what caused the US to invade those places? Had 9/11 never happened those two countries would continue to be "paradise" by their thinking.
But then again, 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy, right?
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 26, 2007 9:03 AM
"However, President Bush is a very stubborn man. He is very extremist."
Stubborn. Yes.
Extremist. I only wish.
Bush doesn't even know what "dakwa" is.
If Bush were a President who understood why "dakwa" is, THAT, and doing something about THAT, would be extreme.
Posted by: USorThem at October 26, 2007 9:04 AM
If I understand correctly, his contention that the bombings in Bali were wrong is because Indonesia is an islamic country.
This is a very instructive article.
Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at October 26, 2007 9:06 AM
"...otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."
If that's the case, Southern California needs a little maintenance. Where are Allah and his apostle when you need them?
Bashir sounds like a democrat...
Posted by: duh_swami at October 26, 2007 9:06 AM
Yah, see what the muslims are doing.
Are ya goin to believe your lyin eyes ?
islam should be driven out of the West.
Posted by: dgene at October 26, 2007 9:40 AM
And a number of Dems should go with them.
What an evil crew !
Posted by: dgene at October 26, 2007 9:42 AM
Dont know if GW has become a muslim (doubt it), but he sure does love those Saudi snakes.
And we are winning the war.
Well, we can't all be perfect.
Posted by: dgene at October 26, 2007 9:45 AM
Becoming a muslim keeps you safe. How so? From other muslims for example? ROFLMAO! Depending on where you happen to find yourself, you can always be killed for not being the right muslim or the right gender of muslim , or if you are not practising islam fervently enough.
Or if you are one of those unlucky muslims who live in one of those muslim countries where muslims, during the course of trying to blow up infidels, aren't really too concerned if they blow up many other muslims in the process.
Posted by: j_not_a at October 26, 2007 9:51 AM
http://a-plague-on-both-houses.blogspot.com/2007/08/vulnerable-mecca.html
Making the world safe from Islam starts in Mecca.
at October 26, 2007 10:00 AM
http://a-plague-on-both-houses.blogspot.com/2007/08/vulnerable-mecca.html
Making the world safe from Islam starts in Mecca.
at October 26, 2007 10:00 AM
If Bush "wants to be safe he should take up Islam"
Take up Islam? Like taking up golf, knitting, smoking, drinking, line dancing? Like taking up a hobby?
Or like taking up space, as Mohammedans do?
And, Bali is a "safe place"? There are no safe places in Islam! Mohammed's terrorists have proved this, beyond a doubt.
"You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle"
Um, isn't this assigning a partner to their Illah?
I'll believe their Illah owns the earth when I see him come and take it. As for Mohammed, the only part of the earth he owns is the dirt he was buried in!
at October 26, 2007 10:04 AM
If Bill Clinton was the first "black" president, then W is certainly the first Muslim president. Dubai wants to buy our ports? Sure, no problem! Saudis want to send 15,000 students here? Sure, no problem!
God, I can't wait for the election of Rudy or Romney...
at October 26, 2007 10:11 AM
I will personally, publicly and loudly proclaim that there is no god but Allah, and I will testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah the day Abu Bakar Bashirs very imaginary god (Allah) kisses my totally real arse.
Meanwhile Bashir can shove his silly play-book up any personally haram place he chooses.
Posted by: Quantum Infidel at October 26, 2007 10:27 AM
For the last several years I've been typing "the 'Muslim world' means Earth to them." I don't think many people realized I was basing that on this:
you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle
It's amazing what you can find in ahadith if you spend a few dozen hours skimming.
Posted by: Beagle at October 26, 2007 10:48 AM
Indonesia is a safe place, a safe country, safe from conflict.
Tell that to the survivors of Bali and to the families of the dead. Tell it to the non-Muslim Indonesians who live in fear of some "mujahid" who decides to take a shortcut to heaven.
BTW, not even "embracing Islam" will make you safe, if you associate with people jihadists don't like or if you happen to follow a practice they find personally offensive.
Posted by: PMK at October 26, 2007 11:00 AM
Ba'asyir's advice to bush is entirely unnecessary. bush has already done everything but recite the shahada.
Posted by: sheik yer booty at October 26, 2007 11:05 AM
You mean President Bush isn't already at least a half-Muslim by this point? You could fool me.
Posted by: Foehammer at October 26, 2007 11:09 AM
Expel us from (our) land....? What land? The U.S.? Oh I know, they mean 'expel us from the PLANET, i.e., exterminate us........
They should just say what they really mean.
Posted by: n.a. palm at October 26, 2007 11:28 AM
Reading this article just reaffirms to me that muslims are ok with all their violence and upset that we do anything about it and hold them accountable. In fact, they are incensed that we should do anything because of their idea that they are doing their god's work while we are destined for hades.
This is probably why the left has such a hard time with the logic part of it all. It is so blaringly apparent that the appeasers of islam have done absolutely no reading on the subject. And with reading comes surprises all the time.
Look at how muslims hold their people accountable if they do violence... they don't. They are ok with infidels, and their own women, being tortured and/or killed all the time. They only jail people if they try to leave islam, try to change it or discuss it, or draw a cartoon.
When going to one of those conferences that we know muslim women will always show up to defend islam - too bad this video isn't always run before the session starts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-8Yd_2Crk
Posted by: R_not at October 26, 2007 11:44 AM
Hmm, surely with all the dhimmi tax the US and the west already pay, we should all be safe...
While you laugh my friends, lets have some music...
http://www.animatronics.org/strangers/strangers.htm
Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at October 26, 2007 12:00 PM
The thinking revealed by this cleric, if one can dignify it with that term, should come as no surprise to anyone who has any real knowledge of Islam. His analyses and conclusions are in keeping with major Islamic tenets. Islam is the only religion which could produce, and does produce prolifically, "thinking" along these lines. And again, why would any sensible person want to be a Muslim? And why should any non-Muslim feel at all compelled or obligated to respect Islam? In fact, I can't offhand think of anything I respect less than Islam, including the many useful idiots in the West (e.g., Daily Kos, Noam Chomsky, Ward Churchill, the BBC, Hollywood, etc.) who keep telling us that Muslims are angry with us because we deserve it.
Posted by: Wellington at October 26, 2007 12:01 PM
OT but a good read
http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2006/04/life-in-iraq-part-ii-civilization-of.html
at October 26, 2007 12:42 PM
"You mean President Bush isn't already at least a half-Muslim by this point? You could fool me".
Posted by: Foehammer at October 26, 2007 11:09 AM
"Hmm, surely with all the dhimmi tax the US and the west already pay, we should all be safe..."
Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at October 26, 2007 12:00 PM
Not good enough. Nuking Israel on behalf of the Destroyers would be the only acceptable thing for that bunch-anything short of that simply won't do.
at October 26, 2007 12:42 PM
R_not - a link worth posting again and sending to every e-mail contact:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-8Yd_2Crk
Posted by: pvb at October 26, 2007 1:11 PM
A moderate Muslim cleric said
The only way that Bush can survive is for him to do what is being ordered by God which is to believe in Islam, to convert to Islam.
Well, Bush did say that he believes in God, and that all Gods in all religions are the same. So praying to one should be the same as praying to the other.
But Bush will have to learn that one can never be Muslim-enough for the TRUE believers. Sunni vs. Shi'ite, Sunni vs. Sunni, Shi'ite vs. Shi'ite, all of them vs. Ahmadi: no-one is ever Muslim-enough to avoid the mandatory bombing or shooting or stabbing.
Posted by: special_guest at October 26, 2007 1:15 PM
And look at the mass killings taking place between the Shia and Sunni factions of Islam: an utter carnival of carnage without end.
I still (strongly) suspect that the mass beheadings of the Madurese Muslims by the newly-Islamized Dyak tribespeople in Indonesia's Kalimantan almost a decade ago was a jihad between two separate factions of Islam slugging it out for tribal supremacy on that island.
So what what we have here from this creep whatshisfaceabadbaker (who I once had the horror of ENCOUNTERING AT THE INDONESIAN CONSULATE IN LOS ANGELES ABOUT EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO!) is a classic taqiyya. Of course, Islam has NEVER made anyone safer because the Kuran has instructions (supposedly) from al-lah for Muslims to prey upon each other and target each other's mosques for destruction. Muslims can be massacred by other Muslims at any time, whatshisfaceabad baker and his web of lies notwithstanding. Islam will NEVER make anyone safe(r).
The only GOOD way for us all to be safe is to rid the world if Islam and Muslims ASAP. Islam will never stop killing because in truth it is nothing more or less that a militarized human sacrifice cult that worships the idol Ba'al (to whom human sacrifices by the thousands were routinely offered by Mesopotamian peoples). Islam cannot and will never escape its origins of mass killing. But maybe we can.
Posted by: pythagoras at October 26, 2007 1:48 PM
Missed opportunities for follow-up questions
1) "The (Bali) bombers are actually counter-terrorists because they are opposing US terrorism."
Possible follow-up question: As seen by the senseless proliferation of nightclubs?
2) "We want to uncover the truth that the Koran teaches."
Possible follow-up question: Will non-Moslems be invited to comment on this process?
3) "Jihad can be done through arms and can be done through words as I'm doing now - as preaching."
Possible follow-up question: What about inner struggle?
Etc., etc.
Posted by: Chatillon at October 26, 2007 2:09 PM
Sheikh
That DailyKos poll doesn't even offer its readers the option of voting no. One can only vote Yes, and there are 190 such moonbats at the time of this posting.
I would like to think that there are those on the Left - particularly the hardline atheists - who'd at least oppose that, but nooooooooo, doesn't look like the Kos would even support their Atheists over the Mohammedans. A part of me doesn't know whether that's funny or sad.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at October 26, 2007 2:10 PM
"The only GOOD way for us all to be safe is to rid the world if (sic) Islam and Muslims ASAP."
Pythagoras
What a lovely thought. But how?
Posted by: Wellington at October 26, 2007 2:14 PM
Nuking Israel on behalf of the Destroyers would be the only acceptable thing for that bunch-anything short of that simply won't do.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS
You'll find that even that wouldn't be enough. First, we'd have wiped out "Islam's third holiest site", so retribution for that would be in order.
Second, there would still be Jews in the world.
Third, there would still be Christians in the world.
Fourth, there would still be atheists or polytheists in the world.
Any and all pose a great danger to Islam's exclusivity. No co-stars for them. The world isn't big enough for anything but Islam.
Israel is just one item on their checkoff list.
Posted by: PMK at October 26, 2007 5:00 PM
"The idea that Bush will only be safe if he converts to Islam is in accord with Muhammad's words ... 'If you embrace Islam, you will be safe'."
--- --- --- ---
That's the theory of Islam, of course. In practice, if you're the wrong "flavor" of Islam, or if you're an "insufficient" Muslim, or if you offend somebody powerful enough that no one wants to speak against him, you'll wind up accused of "crimes against Islam" and at best be beaten and imprisoned; at worst you'll be executed unpleasantly.
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at October 26, 2007 5:07 PM
From above:
Ba'asyir: The bombers were carrying out their acts in Indonesia, a relatively safe place. When events occur, they [are] taken as justification by the government and US. They say, "See what the Muslims are doing, this is why we have to fight terrorism!"
ATol: So you are saying that bombings in safe places - like Bali and at the Marriot Hotel in Jakarta - are bad ideas that give ammunition and fuel to the Americans?
Ba'asyir: Yes.
Hey Ba'asyir, maybe someone should have worked through that logic before killing our fellow citizens in our "relatively safe" country. You need a swift kick in the Balis, you numbnut.
Posted by: RalphInfidel at October 26, 2007 5:19 PM
" ... But peace is the objective of Islam - to live in peace."
--- --- --- ---
I have a "mental cartoon" of the "peace of Islam":
bleak countryside, destroyed buildings wreathed in smoke, a few dead goats, leafless trees; front-and-center there's a wild-eyed fellow in flowing robes and a turban, bandoliers and AK-47: "Oh, see, Allah! I have done as you commanded and subdued the Infidels, the Apostates, all who would oppose you. This -- all this (gesturing to the desolation) is now all for your glory!" and a voice replies from the clouds: "Hassan, you dumb shiite...."
at October 26, 2007 6:00 PM
A Nonny Mouse - are you familiar with the cult sci fi tv series 'Babylon Five'. Check out the episode entitled 'Infection'.
It involves a story about an alien artefact designed as a sort of parasitical implant, creating a super-soldier. The race/ culture that created it, turns out to have become extinct because they programmed the implant to destroy everything that it did not recognise as a 'pure' member of their group. The parameters of 'pure' as programmed in by a religo-political committee turned out to be so impossible to meet that in the end the soldier cyborgs annihilated every single member of the community they were originally supposed to 'protect'.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at October 27, 2007 1:53 AM
"Indonesia is a safe place, a safe country, safe /from conflict."
Tell that to the Timorese Christians. If you can find any left alive.
http://www.cswusa.com/Reports%20Pages/Reports-EastTimor.htm
Posted by: Drewbenstein at October 27, 2007 9:23 AM
It's a shame that this moron still breathing and not hanging on the wrong end of a good stout rope.
Posted by: hemoglobin at October 27, 2007 10:58 PM
Comments are turned off and archived for this entry.
(Note: The Comments section is provided in the interests of free speech only. It is mostly unmoderated, but comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted. The fact that any comment remains on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch, or by Robert Spencer or any other Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch writer, of any view expressed, fact alleged, or link provided in that comment.)