This is why the ummah remains mired in the Third World-the only thing worth learning is the Koran. It's not even learning it that's important-mindlessly reciting it without understanding it and especially questioning it is the big thing. It also might explain why the ummah sends so many "students" our way to learn something other than the Koran.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 30, 2007 7:49 AM

The article states "both US and Saudi cash flooded in to encourage the jihad against Russian troops"

The US used Afghanistan to create a Vietnam for the soviets. Too bad the monster they created turned around and started to bite the creator.

Posted by: Swissy at October 30, 2007 7:54 AM

LOL (to create a vietnam for the soviets)...is that out & out lie still being circulated after it's been shot down 20 years ago? wow...lol
Nice try, lousy lie...lol
...and lay off the kook fringe websites for "news"-it's eating away at your rationale`

;-)

Posted by: jcom972 at October 30, 2007 8:22 AM

"Its head, Mullah Ghulam Rasool, says his 5,000 students learn no militancy. "It's strictly religious education, we keep them away from politics," he insists."

No militancy. No politics. Yeah Right. If that were so it eliminates most of what is in the "holy koran". What's left to memorize?

Posted by: USorThem at October 30, 2007 8:40 AM

In 2005, a young Pakistani girl graduated with my daughter's high school class, and the whole year, she wore a form of dress called a shalwar kameez...I think. Complete with head covering. I can't help but wonder if anything Americano rubbed off on her, since she spent a whole year here. She was from Lahore, so I don't know what the situation is there for citified ladyfolk. If what happens to them in the 'stans of the wastelands of Pakistan, I cringe to think that all that education was completely wasted.

Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at October 30, 2007 8:41 AM

taqqiyah
lol

Posted by: jcom972 at October 30, 2007 8:42 AM

Now, what exactly is wrong with “creating Vietnam for the soviet troops”? as Swissy comments above.
If only, after the WWII, the US had helped in “creating Vietnam for the Soviet troops” in the countries of the Eastern Europe it would not have taken 50 year for them to get out from the Communist jail.

It seems “Swissy” must have spent his formative years in a leftist madrassa and like that 12-year-old Imran Mohammed described in the posting he is only able to utter what he has been told to memorize.

No, Americans did not “create the monster”. The monster has been there 1400 years and is called Islam. It is the same monster that has been busy chopping off heads of Christian, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus (and occasionally Soviet troops) since its birth.

Posted by: thomas. h at October 30, 2007 9:45 AM

This story about the "education" provided by madrasas is one stone in the edifice of understanding that needs to be built, built so high that no one can avoid seeing it:

The failures, political, economic, social, moral, and intellectual, of Muslim societies are a result of Islam itself.

Posted by: Hugh at October 30, 2007 9:47 AM

Well isn't that nice, and several nukes in their hands as well.

The future for Pakistan sounds just fine, just fine.

Posted by: thehappyinfidel at October 30, 2007 9:47 AM

This kid can recite 60 pages? I had trouble memorizing the "Raven" in eighth grade. After reciting it, I immediately began an active effort to forget it.

This kid must repeat what he has memorized at least once or twice per day or else he will begin forgetting it. It is an all consuming task, it must occupy his every thought. The article hints that Arabic is not his native language and also that he does not speak it; he only speaks it phonetically as he recites the sounds.
A waste of time and a wasted life!

In a few years the bleeding heart libs will wonder whay there is so much severe poverty in Pakistan. The next thing will be a push for more foreign aid. After all it is American foreign policy to blame, eh?

Remember, in about six years this "kid" will strap on a bomb harnass and kill some filthy infidels, waste no tears on him.

Posted by: Pelayo at October 30, 2007 10:20 AM

"his faltering voice suddenly breaking into fluent Arabic>"

This in itself says a lot, in this case about the cultural imperialism imposed by Islam.

Posted by: johnb at October 30, 2007 10:34 AM

How to prepare suicide bombers and cannon fodder...

Posted by: Daffersd at October 30, 2007 11:06 AM

Up to one in five state schools lie empty because of a lack of money to pay teachers, some of whom are barely qualified. The literacy rate is 49 per cent. Mr Haider, whose sister runs a village schools project in a rural area outside Karachi, recalls how of 400 people she recently asked to sign a register, all but eight did so with their thumbprints.

from the article

With no ability to read and write, how can a young boy learn the Koran, a book written in a foreign tongue? Was it read aloud? Just how "fluent" was this child's Arabic? Did he know the meaning of the sounds he was uttering?

Posted by: PMK at October 30, 2007 11:07 AM

"...his faltering voice suddenly breaking into fluent Arabic"

That bit got me thinking too. Not just about the Arab imperialism inherent in Islam, but about the child himself.

He is 12 years old. He cannot write, and presumably can only "read" in Arabic (the hard copy article showed a photo of him and his classmates pouring over their Korans).

Given the region, his native language is most probably a dialect of either Urdu or Pashtun. He can recite the Koran in Arabic, but can he speak Arabic? Does he actually understand what he's reading? From the article one would guess not - he's just parroting back the word sounds verbatim.

Thanks to some visits to Italy and a watching the dubbed scenes in The Godfather, I can do a similar trick with the front page of the Gazzetta Dello Sport, but I haven't got a clue what it means.

If he doesn't have the language skills to interpret the text, or the critical thinking skills imparted by a good general education to evaluate it, then he's just an automaton - like the sheep in Animal Farm.

Some thought-provoking statistics (from a 2005 BBC news item):

"It is estimated that there are now around 20,000 madrassas in Pakistan, compared to around 137 at the time of Partition."

"According to the Pakistani newspaper, The News, there are today around 1.7m students who attend such institutions."

Posted by: Matamoros at October 30, 2007 11:45 AM

This reminds me of the Khalil Gibran Arabic school principal scandal of a few months ago. I was watching "Hannity and Colmes", which had a panel discussing the subject. Alan Colmes was repeating over and over, "Madrassa just means school, madrassa just means school!"

Well, yes--madrassa does mean school. But I doubt many Westerners have any idea what these "schools" are really like. Oh, most understand that that these are religious schools, but they probably imagine a sort of Islamic version of Shul or Sunday school.

PMK wrote:

With no ability to read and write, how can a young boy learn the Koran, a book written in a foreign tongue? Was it read aloud? Just how "fluent" was this child's Arabic? Did he know the meaning of the sounds he was uttering?
.....................

Most of the time the children are not even really reading the Qu'ran--"learning" is mostly rote memorization. I've seen footage of these "schools" and they are extremely disturbing--rows of young children (all boys, of course) sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth as though severly autistic, chanting the Qu'ranic texts in unison. A "teacher" keeps a close eye on any child who loses his place--beating the child is the most common response.

Most of these children, like the boy in Pakistan from the article, do not even speak Arabic. Even for children who's first language is Arabic, it is unlikely that they have a full understanding of what they have memorized. The Qu'ran is written in an archaic classical Arabic that is no longer spoken by anyone today. It would be like having a Christian child memorize the entire New Testament in Latin, or perhaps Aramaic, with no translation provided.

The idea that radical Islam might have a very different idea of what constitutes an education is not, I think, widely considered in the West. "Madrassa" does just mean school--but then, "Taliban" just means student.

Posted by: gravenimage at October 30, 2007 12:45 PM

And these madrassas are now being built in the States with the Bush Administration's blessing and becoming thus an equally big threat here too.

Posted by: pythagoras at October 30, 2007 2:07 PM

And these madrassas are now being built in the States with the Bush Administration's blessing and becoming thus an equally big threat here too.

Posted by: pythagoras at October 30, 2007 2:08 PM

It is time, fellow Jihad/Dhimmi Watchers, for us here at this Madrassa ( of the Counterjihad ) to recite the multiculturalist credo: "All cultures are equal!"
Of course, if you do not recite this ( in the proper whining tone of voice ) then that proves that you are "racist!"

Honestly, what HorseS@#$.

Western Civilization 101: In the Medieval university, ( under Christianity with a good deal of Judaism mixed in ) the basis for a "liberal arts" education was, first, the Trivium, which consisted of the study of grammar, logic, and rhetoric. This was in preparation for, second, the Quadruvium, which consisted of the study of arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy. Only after completing these was the student then ready to study philosophy and theology. Gee, is this maybe why Western Civilization is not a giant S@#$hole like the Isamic world, ya think??

Islam is an ULTRA-VIOLENT THUG CULT and "students" like 12 year old Imran Mohammed are being BRAINWASHED. So what are the chances of him ever becoming a "moderate" Muslim? *LOL!*

Posted by: One_of_the_last_few_Patriots_left at October 30, 2007 2:09 PM

memo to our friend "Swissy::

FYI--The Soviet Union violated Afghanistan's sovereign rights in its invasion and had no right to do so inasmuch as Afghanistan had not attacked the Soviet Union or otherwise provoked it into taking a military action against it.

For the US to let this go would have strengthened the Soviet Empire and possibly encouraged further conquests by the Soviets. Ask someone who lived in eatern Germany or Poland under the Iron Curtain if they think this was a good thing (It's for sure you don't care as you have reduced the matter to a rhetorical football for your personal use).

The US' real problem was that there weren't enough people around the world (especially in western Europe) who cared enough about democracy to take action against the Soviets on a scale commensurate with the problems they were creating. Thus the US was forced to take such unorthodox measures as training Muslim guerillas to force Russia out. So you may want to rethink your sophomoric summations of the situation. Americans should NOT have been in the situation where they had to rely on non-allies to handle an enemy of democracy (which Communism was and still is).

Your sarcasm on this matter thus underscores your general poor understanding and lack of information of international affairs and is therefore generally unhelpful and unappreciated.

We would also add that western Europeans' inattention to the matter of more than 50 million murders of Christians in the islamic countries while doing business with them at the same time has bitten western Europeans in the arse as well as can plaionly be seen by the rise of Muslim-only areas throughout western European cities. Would you like Americans to uncork a bottle of champagne to celebrate that?

Posted by: pythagoras at October 30, 2007 2:25 PM

Good text pythagoras. I think it is never a good idea to sleep with the devil and western governments are doing it all the time.
There is an another viewpoint that the US intentionally destabilized Afghanistan to entice the soviets to come to 'help'.
Those who think i am a leftist, sorry totally wrong. I would ban Muslim immigration today if i could. I just get mad when i see jihad empower by the west giving them money, training and weapons. Greed is the name of the game and it happens on both sides.

Posted by: Swissy at October 30, 2007 2:41 PM

Just found this on wikipedia to support my point of view:

Carter advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski stated "According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise." Brzezinski himself played a fundamental role in crafting U.S. policy, which, unbeknownst even to the Mujahideen, was part of a larger strategy "to induce a Soviet military intervention." In a 1998 interview with Le Nouvel Observateur, Brzezinski recalled:

We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would...That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Soviets into the Afghan trap...The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the Soviet Union its Vietnam War.[19]

Posted by: Swissy at October 30, 2007 3:34 PM

Alan Colmes was repeating over and over, "Madrassa just means school, madrassa just means school!"

gravenimage,

You have to love how the leftists are so forgiving of madrassas (it just means school!) that teach children nothing but the Koran's message of hate, but they have a conniption if you bring a Bible anywhere near them, or even dare to wear a crucifix around your neck in the workplace. You're forcing your religion on them, but the people who demand separate seating areas and special footbaths are just furthering diversity. The Boy Scouts are a threat to this country's existence but Osama bin Laden isn't. Go figure.

Posted by: PMK at October 30, 2007 3:48 PM

Swissy,
So the holier than thou Carter administration actually used the people of another country just to further its own interests in the Cold War (and maybe - just maybe, help Carter win the 1980 election)? SHOCKING!!!!

Who does Brzezinski think he is - Henry Kissinger?

Thanks. This is good info to have before watching the special on Carter's presidency. See what they say about Afghanistan. (Friday on C-SPAN)

Posted by: PMK at October 30, 2007 3:58 PM

So he, despite being practically illiterate has succeeded in reciting 60 pages of the Koran. Now if only I could recite the pages of my Cisco books.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at October 30, 2007 4:42 PM

I just get mad when i see jihad empower by the west giving them money, training and weapons. Greed is the name of the game and it happens on both sides.

The greedy west gives jihadies money, training and weapons, says Swissy, - and that makes Swissy MAD!

I think anyone who hasn’t been completely lobotomized by the leftist “blame the West for the Jihad” mantra can see that, in order to articulate such inanities, Swissy must be mad to begin with

Posted by: thomas. h at October 30, 2007 6:05 PM

lol...it's called hyperpartisan ideologue.

swissy needs a better source than wikipedia-"the encyclopedia that anyone can edit" (zero quality control)...lol
I also found the same loonyness uttered by this person at myDD.com (a DU offshoot of kook fringe websites).

I see them coming a mile away, especially the concealed ones trying to hide it (which they can't-their lexicons give them away every time), decades of experience.
lol

Posted by: jcom972 at October 31, 2007 3:26 AM

"Pakistan: Memorizing the Qur'an, but not learning multiplication or even how to write"

What's wrong with you people, the kids know their koran don't they ? Why do you think that multiplication or writing is more important when the life and ways of muhammad, uswa hasana, al insan, al kamil have already been mastered by these "students" ? They know how the Perfect Man behaved, and they know that they must emulate him in every respect or deed, whether beheading kaffirs or raping their women. Do you think that one requires multiplication or writing to cut an Infidel joint by joint, and does blowing oneself up requires these things ?

Islamophobes !

Posted by: arjun.sevak at October 31, 2007 4:16 AM

Let us disengage from this squalid part of the world and only revisit with B-52s as needed. I only want to read about these people in the pages of National Geographic. Like before.

Posted by: Bingo at October 31, 2007 6:36 AM

"Pakistan: Memorizing the Qur'an, but not learning multiplication or even how to write"

Good. You saw what happened when A.Q. Khan learned multiplication. While I agree they should be reading something besides the Qur'an, Pakistan needs remedial civilization training before learning any more mathematics. The less they know about math, the easier they'll be to stomp, if necessary.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at October 31, 2007 8:53 PM

Well, good point @ a q khan

"...to educate a man in mind but not in morals is to educate a menace to society!"

Looks like Theodore Roosevelt was right even 100 years ago.

Posted by: jcom972 at November 1, 2007 3:26 AM