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One of the supreme ironies of the "Global War on Terror" has been the consistency with which the US has pursued pro-jihadist foreign and military policies since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. Not even the spectacular carnage of 9/11 has shaken the resolve of the State Department, for example, to back Muslim demands against Christian Serbia in Kosovo. The US of course backed jihadis during the Balkan wars of the 1990s, first the Bosnians -- allying ourselves with such Muslim luminaries as Alija Izetbegovic (see his Islamic Declaration if you still aren't sure of his true sympathies) and Osama bin Laden (that's "Mr bin Laden" if you ask the New York Times) -- and later the KLA in Kosovo.
Slowly -- haltingly -- it seems that reality is beginning to catch up with US policy. Herewith the latest from the redoubtable Serge Trifkovic in Chronicles Magazine on US policy in Kosovo:
As we near the deadline of December 10 for the Contact Group “Troika’s” report on its attempts to negotiate a solution to the problem of Kosovo, the voices of reason in the United States are finally becoming more influential and more articulate than ever before. Over the past two weeks alone, John Bolton, Christian Science Monitor commentator David Young, and a host of prominent analysts meeting at a conference in Washington D.C. have warned that the U.S. policy in the Balkans is heading for the rocks.On November 1 the Voice of America interviewed former U.S. Ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, about the future status of Kosovo. Mr. Bolton expressed the view that the State Department has conducted a consistently anti-Serbian policy for more than 15 years. Unfortunately, he said, this biased policy has continued even though there is no logical reason for it after the fall of Milosevic:
While Serbia is trying to establish an effective and functional democracy regarding human rights and other issues, the anti-Serbian policy has continued, especially with regard to Kosovo, where a decision in favor of its independence could only create other concerns. Such a decision could impact on the democracy in progress in Serbia, and the possibility that the Security Council would step beyond its authority, which would be very unfortunate. This is one of the numerous examples of behavior by the State Department, which is a problem the next President has to solve.John Bolton is the most prominent former Administration official so far to be so outspoken about the U.S. policy in the former Yugoslavia. In his VoA interview he was adamant that the United States should not recognize any unilateral declaration of Kosovo independence:
Such a decision, which would be taken under threat of violence, would actually represent a way to reward bad behavior. The issue of Kosovo should be solved by two parties at the negotiation table . . . this is much better than to impose a solution on one side or the other, based on a wrong understanding of the situation.Bolton added that the last thing we should do is to sow the seeds for future conflicts under the pressure of one side or the other. Of his new book, “Surrender Is Not an Option: Defending America at the United Nations and Abroad,” Bolton said it was focused on how the policy is actually formulated. He quoted a senior State Department official who told him that “if they knew how we formulate our foreign policy, Americans would be very dissatisfied.”
Indeed they would. Read it all.
Posted by Greg at November 5, 2007 8:44 PM
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“if they knew how we formulate our foreign policy, Americans would be very dissatisfied.”
-- from the article above
By their fruits shall ye know them. So we do know. And we are very dissatisfied.
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at November 5, 2007 8:53 PM
I find the Bolton situation extremely disconcerting. I still can't believe that Bush would disowm someone of Bolton's intelligence and savvy, though perhaps Bolton actually opted out on his own account. He complains that US foreign policy is entirely State Department driven, differs extensively with Condi and is disgusted with our weak Iran response.
Probably Bush is too indecisive himself about the issues to take firm control of many aspects of foreign policy.
at November 5, 2007 9:01 PM
I have full faith in washington , they will always side with Islam.
Hell to them OBL is a liberal
at November 5, 2007 9:06 PM
"Former New York Times correspondent in Belgrade David Binder focused on the overall dysfunctionality of today’s Kosovo: an economy stuck in misery; a bursting population of young people with criminality as the sole career choice; an insupportably high birthrate; and a society imbued with corruption and a state dominated by organized crime figures."
Kosovo or Gaza? It may be that a historic reversal of support for Jihad may yet occur, in at least two places on the globe.
Posted by: StillBreathing at November 5, 2007 9:11 PM
Gee, I just read Izetbegovic's manifesto - and all those years of listening to NPR and reading the NYTimes had me convinced that the Bosnian Muslims were modern, moderate, secular, innocent victims of racist Serbs. Maybe it's not...quite...like...that...hmmmmmmm...
Posted by: jewdog at November 5, 2007 9:17 PM
"According to James Jatras, Washington’s irrational and destructive Balkan policy is to a significant extent the product of the ignorant and misguided notion that the U.S. can curry favor in the Islamic world by sacrificing Kosovo’s Christians to the violent jihad-terror elements that dominate Kosovo’s Albanian leadership. Such an unfounded notion shows a breathtaking incomprehension of the worldwide jihadist threat."
I think Jatras nailed it. It's another example of disastrous Bush-think: the Muslim world is supposed to think that the US supporting Kosovo independence proves to Muslims that the US is not really fighting Islam and thereby this will make them friendlier. Stupid! The Muslim world – which wants the entire world Muslim – will just think it means that the infidel Bush is even dumber than they thought, and that Allah is probably blinding him like Allah does sometimes blind infidels as in the Koran.
Posted by: FM at November 5, 2007 10:11 PM
Are the stands of the various presidential candidates - both GOP and Dem - known on this one? I'm guessing Hilary would continue the Clinton policy, but what about Obama, Rudy or Romney? Anyone know their stands on this issue? I know that both Rudy and Romney have spoken out against Jihad, but does that also apply to Kosovo?
Posted by: Infidel Pride at November 5, 2007 10:17 PM
As I explain in culturism, we should look at geo-politics from a "clash of civilizations" model. Basically, that is the idea that there is the West, Islam and China. Our vision is not the world's vision. Islam or China may have dominance in this coming century.
In an effort to not be racist, we have stripped ourselves of our ability to be culturist. We want to be fair and treat all people as if they are the same. They are not!!! Diversity exists.
If we have to choose between supporting a Western friendly country like Serbia or a Islamic state like Albania, we should take sides. Similarly, supporting Palistine is a Muslim responsibility. Supporting other civilization's outposts is suicidal. We must use culturist common sense!!!
Posted by: jkp at November 5, 2007 10:18 PM
Should US policy have changed after the fall of Milosevic? Sure. Has Serbian policy towards the Albanians changed at all? Perhaps. With NATO KFOR troops stationed in Kosova for more than a decade to prevent further ethnic cleansing of Albanians by the Serbs, it's hard to tell what Serbian policy actually is concerning Kosova anymore.
Trying to read every ethnic conflict in the Balkans by what happened in Bosnia is fraught with peril. Izetbegovic is just as relevent to the Kosova situation as Ceaucescu. Bolton has a point about US policy, but we didn't magically decide to oppose Serbian ethnic cleansing in Kosova on a whim or a straw poll of State Dept employees. Kosovar independence is inevitable; a war between the Albanians and Serbs doesn't have to be. But if we can't have a serious conversation without interjecting every ethnic grievance over the past 700 years into the equation (which no doubt will be trotted out here ad nauseum), war is more than likely.
And let's be honest - Trifkovic is hardly some unbiased observer on these issues.
Posted by: scanderbeg at November 5, 2007 10:24 PM
Kosovo issue was a final straw as to my original retirement from military service-I couldn't take clintonSKY's BS anymore, and that one was beyond absurd. (CLINTON got involved in it, AND her husband, not Bush)
Kosovo is a serb province and has been for a long time-that's no "independence" issue-that's an outright land grab.
(the US military wanted nothing to do with the balkan mess-it wasn't strategically important to us, and still isn't)
When asked why I took retirement so suddenly (I'd said I wanted to make 30 years before this happened),
I asked if they wanted the official line or the plain truth.
They "ordered" the truth, so I let them have it...
(hey, they ordered me to, so they can't say squat to me afterward):
I said
"I don't work for communists."
HITlery tried to deny my retirement, as I got all kinds of hassle (she found out she couldn't, much to her HITleresque tirade-she got wind of my comments, which I thought were private), but won out in the end...as the maximum leader, or her husband, couldn't afford to risk yet another near-mass-mutiny by the Navy as they did in 1996, 1998, and 1999, who don't work for communists either.
(that's a raw nerve with me...and another forum entirely)
at November 5, 2007 10:31 PM
At least one Republican's position is pretty clear, that of McCain. At the time of the bombardment of Serbia, he argued at the time that the only flaw of Clinton's was not having bombed "hard enough and fast enough". Those of us who were concerned about Serbia were laughed at.
Posted by: Kafir Nonbeliever at November 5, 2007 10:40 PM
Hmmmm...
http://www.pollingreport.com/serb9905.htm
(and CNN/Time is viciously anti-conservative so the conservative opposition is habitually higher than commie news network admits, even when shown to be biased as hell as they have been repeatedly, overwhelmingly, indisputably & conclusively)
It eventually cost him & his party the oral orifice, and restored it back to the oval office it once was.
at November 5, 2007 11:03 PM
I would dearly love to see a John Bolton / Tom Tancredo ticket.
Posted by: interestinconundrum at November 5, 2007 11:12 PM
About the question of Obama...
this isn't strictly about jihad but shows his feelings about patriotism.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-salute.htm
at November 5, 2007 11:24 PM
Forget the obamarama...not gonna happen anyway. But that aside...
...I'd love to see Bolton at State Dept...but with the islamicommie 5th column in elected office, no chance of that happening without them throwing a hissy fit over someone who'd actually be effective.
lol
at November 5, 2007 11:27 PM
A statement from the US that says we would not support an independent Kosovo would be a good start in closing the rift between the US and Russia.
Another country with the Quran as the basis for its constitution cannot be allowed.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 5, 2007 11:33 PM
Kafir N
Don't worry - McCain isn't going to get the nod. I only mentioned the candidates who I think are possibilities at all - note that I didn't ask about Tancredo or Thompson either.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at November 5, 2007 11:46 PM
Ummm, nah...though it would at least straighten some things out, after putin's last few kook comments...
like claiming US wants to invade russia for its resources...and the one claiming they'd attack us if we attacked iran...nah, not much chance of healing a rift, epsecially with one who's been KGB from the word go, as are his buddies who dominate the duma.
Besides, they're firmly within the SCOs sphere, and that means the communist occupation forces in china.
Either way, I'd prefer going beyond words, and simply not get involved with the kosovo province issue at all...because it IS a serbian province-that one IS over the line and we have more important things to deal with.
Posted by: jcom972 at November 5, 2007 11:55 PM
Bolton may get my vote again this year for anti-dhimmi of the year!
I am extremely disappointed that the United States and the U.N. are supporting the movement to make Kosovo an independent Muslim state.
I have a message for NATO and the UN:
NO MORE MUSLIM STATE BUILDING IN EUROPE!
Let the Serbs decide the fate of their own country.
Yes, Kosovo is an area of Serbia- not Albania.
at November 6, 2007 12:39 AM
I have wondered with regards to the Balkan post-Yugoslavia disintegration: how much of this was caused by Islamic influence from outside the Balkans? The Saudis and jihadis can smell an opportunity to foment social discord and make headway for Wabbism from a great distance, like sharks smelling blood in a huge ocean. It's their one true and tried talent.
The passage of time and the work of historians will reveal that there was a lot more foreign (i.e. Wahhabi) agitation and provocation there than anyone ever possibly envisioned in those pre-9/11 days. It is known that the Balkans post-Yugoslavia where a powerful attractant to jihadis and their Saudi financiers.
Islam has bloody borders, as it is said. The response may be external and condemnable, but the immediate cause may still be internal bleeding. The itch may make the condition worse, but the condition was there before the itch.
The untold story of the Balkans is still to be told by objective historians. The facts that have been coming in for some time now suggest that it was not a simple "genocide" or "ethnic cleansing" in a vacuum. Clinton responded on the presumption that it was, but his intelligence (in all senses of the word) may not have been as considerable as many think.
Sometimes one wonders to what extent the Balkans debacle was a setup by foreign jihadis.
Yet, even though we came in on the side of Islam on this one, even when Saudi Arabia would fund foment but not do anything to step in, we get no credit for it in the Muslim world.
They hated our guts before Iraq, before Afghanistan and before Israel, all by over a millennium. So what kind of naive dufus - besides your average leftist - could possibly think that Islamic hatred of all things Western has anything to do with what we have done? Our not being Muslim is, in their own words, justification enough for our being killed. Muslims hated non-Muslims to the point of wanting to kill them from the very inception of Islam. It ain't Iraq. It ain't Afghanistan (which only a terrorist-supporting irredentist could argue was a "country" we should not have gone into post-9/11). And it ain't Israel. Islam hates us because we are Dar-al-Harb.
Submit or die. That is Islam in Cliff's Notes form.
Posted by: Wimbledon Womble at November 6, 2007 1:10 AM
This administration has been a disgrace for sometime now, but I didn't think I'd be saying it's worse than the Clinton administration, but it is.
They keep sticking it to the Serbs every chance they get, they know the facts but insist on championing the violent and corrupt Albanian Kosovar's.
Now I see a report that US troops are going to assist Turkey in dealing with Kurdish rebels. How many times those guys (Kurds) have been screwed over by the US is mind boggling to say the least.
Turkey goes full bore Islamic, it is totally anti American and we watch the American administrations line up and lick their boots, sickening.
http://www.phantis.com/news/read.html?newsID=20071105185550
http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson102607.html
Posted by: The fanatic at November 6, 2007 1:35 AM
Oh there's just so much irony in the Kosovo debacle it's really difficult to know where to start.
We could talk about how every minority supported the Serbs yet the Serbs were compared with the Nazis, or the many rights that the Kosovo Albanians had under Belgrade rule, blah di blah di blah
Hovever, perhaps this interview with Serbophobe extraordinaire, Mr. Holbrooke, is the most revealing. To his credit, Mr Holbrooke was always quite honest about what kind of people the US was backing in the Balkans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/02/nation/sp_nation_holbrooke091002.htm
Question: Were you aware of the KLA and Bosnian Muslims' ties to Osama bin Laden at the time you were negotiating with them?
Richard C. Holbrooke: Yes.........( Mr Holbrooke then starts to talk about Dayton )
So there you have it.
Beyond irony.
at November 6, 2007 2:01 AM
If you want to understand the stupidity of GW Bush, read David Frum's insider tract, "The Right Man." According to Frum, in 2002 GWB gathered a Jew, a Christian and an Muslim in the Oval Office and told them that if not for "faith," he would still be an "alcoholic" with little future. GWB is a fanatic believer that religion is essential for human development. While most Muslims would love nothing better than to separate his head from his body, he has reduced America to a beggar state and squandered hundreds of billions to maintain the Muslim tyrannies, in order to save Islam as existential pillar of his stability. For GWB, to attack Islam would be to swallow a poison pill. Hence, his pathological see-no-evil policy to Muslims. Bush-Derangement-Theory? It is a fact. The President of the US is mentally unstable.
As for Izetbegovic's "Islamic Declaration": most Americans are incapable of seeing evil in anything pronounced good by GWB. Download the full text of the document.
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/documents/islamic-declaration.pdf
We fought the wrong side in the Kosovo Intervention. See for yourselves:
http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/r-s.htm
at November 6, 2007 3:50 AM
Would you be so kind as to post a reference for that instability claim? I'd like to see it.
;-)
at November 6, 2007 4:00 AM
without a reference, it's all just words.
...my brain is working just fine, which is why I called you on your echoed talking points we could easily find in the dailykook, du, SPindymedia, etc.
...but you're right...I AM an asshole-spent a career being one, and it's saved a LOT of lives because of it, DESPITE the kook fringe talking points of the kook fringe 5th column who just utter words without reference.
Now put up or STFU with your leftist BS
Posted by: jcom972 at November 6, 2007 4:10 AM
Thanks for the links, fanatic. Hanson, for me, is either spot on or so way off it's scary. That article is the former. Good stuff.
http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson102607.html
From supercargo:"GWB gathered a Jew, a Christian and an Muslim in the Oval Office and told them that if not for "faith," he would still be an "alcoholic" with little future."
So instead of him being an wino with no future, it's America that's heading for skidrow with no future. Latest estimate for the next 10 years in Iraq is a cool 2.4 trillion bucks. And that's just the direct costs.
Ah well. It's all pluses and minuses.
Posted by: ewha1 at November 6, 2007 4:49 AM
strange bedfellows indeed...
http://wonkette.com/politics/fear_mongering/al-qaeda-bush-is-a-dumb-drunky-drunk-liar-236253.php
http://digg.com/politics/Now_it_s_personal_Al_Qaeda_calls_Bush_an_alcoholic_liar
(forget the fact the overinflated "costs" comment echoed from propaganda pelosi & her lackeys who claimed it's been over 1 trillion already, but isn't even half that yet
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Cost-of-War/Cost-of-War-3.html
...lol
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/pelosi_iraq/2007/09/12/32216.html
gee, whod'a seen that one coming...lol)
*yawn*
at November 6, 2007 5:00 AM
is now a bad time to mention that said "costs" from the past 4 1/2 years isn't even HALF of what we pay out in total welfare "entitlements" (per YEAR)?
(that's $8.50/yr for total welfare for every $1 iraq/yr, about $5/yr counting yearly defense expenditures with it-read that as total costs to date are barely equal to yearly defense budget anyway)
It's not a state secret, public record's available freely.
In proper context it's not such a chicken little issue...but it's as OT as the diversionary screeds that needed to be shot down here (as if never seeing those coming either)...lol
at November 6, 2007 5:28 AM
Now with that taken care of...back to topic...
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={F40E0582-28E4-436A-BA9A-DA1A407500E7}
This one's one that isn't in our interests to have ever pursued at all...
...and if Bolton has his way, it should be heeded.
The kosovo province is just that...a province, of serbia.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/11/bolton-say-no-t.html
clintonsky, or her busband wouldn't know what a war is if it bit them in the ass...and their screeding about iraq is total hypocrisy on their part, as they said the same thing as Bush did, so no excuses, no BS
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={964CC896-00AE-4C73-BCB9-EB9B4AA09E83}
at November 6, 2007 5:42 AM
Interesting post, WW:"Sometimes one wonders to what extent the Balkans debacle was a setup by foreign jihadis."
The Serbs were so desperate to head off civil war in Bosnia, they offered Izetbegovich the Presidency of Yugoslavia. Meanwhile, Izetbegovich was secretly arming his political party - 100,000 party members had been given arms before the war started - and the big massacres even before the civil war began were of - not by - Bosnian Serbs.
Let's face it, even after 911 and most Westerners - including the politicians- still have no idea about Jihad, etc. None. Imagine the ignorance in the early 90's.
The poor Serbs didn't stand a chance and it gives you and idea of the problems the Israelis have had in trying to get their viewpoint across.
From WW:"They hated our guts before Iraq, before Afghanistan and before Israel, all by over a millennium."
So so true.
From supercargo:"Hence, his pathological see-no-evil policy to Muslims. Bush-Derangement-Theory? It is a fact. The President of the US is mentally unstable."
Well, I'd plump for the Jemima Puddleduck scenario myself. Naive to the N'th degree, but I do see your point.
Remember, just months before the Iraqi invasion began and Dubya -in bean counting mode- explained that the whole "Bring it on" venture would cost 50 billion tops.
Fifty friggin' billion.
Of course real Nobel prize winning economists are talking of the trillions.
Billions are just soooooooooo passé
at November 6, 2007 6:28 AM
I am scared witless by the presidential candidates. Obama or Hilary, feel sorry for the US and for the world
Posted by: hemoglobin at November 6, 2007 6:28 AM
hemo'
nah...it's a long time till the elections, and we see what's changed in a mere 6 months as the 5th column was stopped dead in their tracks, did exactly what they said they wouldn't, and of course ya have laughables like those useless lackeys who are given peace prizes for things completely unrelated to peace at all...like algore...lol.
Things are coming full circle before next november, in an election cycle, a year is an eternity to them.
It's already in motion...and the enemy's own hand (and mouth) will be their undoing, as we've seen recently at that.
In the mean time, Bolton's efforts are encouraged as per topic...it's important we get away from that crap sponsored by Useless Numbnuts, Inc (UN) & their clintonista lapdogs.
Even the smallest light shines brightest when surrounded by total darkness...and the light of truth and reality always wins out.
It's why I worked for them.
;-)
Posted by: jcom972 at November 6, 2007 7:36 AM
God bless John Bolton.
He is here when we need him.
Badly.
May the next President put him in charge of Foggy Bottom. Would really help clear out the retards.
A rarity in Washington: a man of vision as well as principle.
Posted by: dgene at November 6, 2007 8:43 AM
Quote from the president of Bosnia.
"President of Bosnia", Mr. Alija Izetbegovic.
"... The first and foremost of such conclusions is surely the one on the incompatibility of Islam and non-Islamic systems. There can be no peace or coexistence between the "Islamic faith" and non- Islamic societies and political institutions. ... Islam clearly excludes the right and possibility of activity of any strange ideology on its own turf. Therefore, there is no question of any laicistic principles, and the state should be an expression and should support the moral concepts of the religion. ..."
page 22
Wow couldn't have put it better myself, funny why didn't Mrs Amanpour cover this? Why isn't any media outlet covering this?
at November 6, 2007 12:30 PM
It is very revealing how driven the Islamists are to destroy Western civilization. The United States unilaterally attacked Serbia to prevent Milosevic from imposing a total genocide on the Muslim population in Bosnia. In return, Bosnia has become a strong recruiting ground for jihadists who have absolutely no loyalty towards the United States for our actions a decade ago. It does not matter to them that we saved them from horrible persecution - they are still bent on creating an Islamic state that shares no allegiances with us and is actively going about imposing sharia law.
http://grizzlymountain.blogspot.com/
Posted by: GrizzlyMountain at November 6, 2007 1:36 PM
Bolton is a true breath of fresh air. Contrast him with the dozen or so presidential candidates from either party.
Posted by: MP at November 6, 2007 2:16 PM
In response to the poster "scanderbeg", who in the comments field above keeps referring to "Kosova"; I think it best to clear up any confusion here, but the story posted above by Spencer refers to Kosovo which is a region of Serbia currently under UN/Nato occupation(or, if you will, Occupation). I've searched the world over and googled extensively for any mention of a place or a thing called "Kosova" and the only match I could find can be seen in the following link which discusses the Gusii people of the BANTU KOSOVA in Kenya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_Kosova
The first sentence of the Wikipedia entry states:
"Kisii (also known as Gusii or Kosova[1]) is a community of Bantu speaker who inhabit the Kisii District in Nyanza, western Kenya."
-and further on in the entry we find the following:
"They speak the language of Kisii or as commonly known as ekegusii among the native speakers. However, some older texts refer to this community as Kosova."
- Mr. scanderbeg, I'm always thrilled to learn about anything related to Kenya, and I'm sure all of us here at Jihadwatch would love to learn more about your "community of Bantu speakers" in western Kenya; but, as Spencer has only so much bandwidth to spare, I suggest you try to keep your observations relevant to the topic at hand.
Posted by: november1981 at November 6, 2007 2:42 PM
On May 6, 2004 both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch -not exactly the Serbs' friends - released reports stating the emergence of a huge child sex-slave industry in Kosovo as a direct result of its "liberation" by the US and NATO. 1/4 of its child-rapist customers are US and NATO "peacekeepers". As if we did not have enough degenerates among us, thousands of American GI's are groomed to rape children, and then they come back home, to our children. Our tax dollars at work.
Things only got worse there since. The Kosovar Albanian sex-slave industry had spread its tentacles throughout Europe. Thousands of local thugs are "subcontracting" for the Albanian bosses in Kosovo. Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria and Ukraine are the main suppliers of little girls. Those little girls who try to say "no" are torture-butchered. Unspeakable horrors are going on in Pristina, Kosovo behind the walls along Clinton Boulevard and Madeline Albright Street. The abominable Western media who were instrumental in bringing this evil are silent.
at November 6, 2007 2:55 PM
"... The shortest definition of the Islamic order defines it as a unity of faith and law, upbringing and force, ideals and interests, spiritual community and state, free will and force. As a synthesis of these components, the Islamic order has two fundamental premises: an Islamic society and Islamic authority. The former is the essence, and the latter the form of an Islamic order. An Islamic society without Islamic power is incomplete and weak; Islamic power without an Islamic society is either a utopia or violence. A Muslim generally does not exist as an individual. If he wishes to live and survive as a Muslim, he must create an environment, a community, an order. He must change the world or be changed himself. History knows of no true Islamic movement which was not at the same time a political movement as well. This is because Islam is a faith, but also a philosophy, a set of moral codes, an order of things, a style, an atmosphere - in a nutshell, an integral way of life. ..." (page 19)This is from Mr. Alija Izetbegovic manifesto. I stopped reading at this page when realizing these two paragraphs are mutually self exclusive in principle:
“A Muslim generally does not exist as an individual,” and “Islamic order defines it as a unity of faith and law… free will and force.”Without the “individual” the “free will” is a meaningless term. Alija in his manifesto’s zeal for Islam is one confused dude. Unfortunately, it seems some people at State are as confused. Just give Kosovo Sharia, pull out any non-Mohammedans left there, and let them choke in their own crime wave of killings, drugs, prostitution, sex slave, whatever they do to keep themselves happy as a good Islamic society under Islamic authority. As Alija said “Islamic power without an Islamic society is either a utopia or violence.” Guess which it will be, if history of all the other Islamic “utopias” is any guide? Posted by: Battle_of_Tours
at November 6, 2007 2:58 PM
Julia Gorin once pointed out the fact that in many news articles related to Kosovo the final paragraph contains a few sentences put forth in order to "frame" the issue for the reader with an attempt to justify NATO involvement by stressing the theme of Serbian brutality and Albanian innocence; usually with a quote like this:
"Kosovo has been administered by the UN since 1999, when it took over control of the territory following a Nato bombing campaign targeting Serb forces. Nato intervened to halt a violent crackdown by Serbia against ethnic Albanians in Kosovo, some of whom had taken up arms."
SOME OF WHOM HAD TAKEN UP ARMS?
You make the call-
http://hoxha.at/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxIyuCuGlpU
"...taken up heads" would be more apt-
http://www.ex-yupress.com/evnovosti/evnovosti13_kladecapit1.jpg
Posted by: november1981 at November 6, 2007 4:56 PM
Enraged,
Your kook fringe media sources have discredited your entire reality. See if I quoted your spew right:
"As if we did not have enough degenerates among us, thousands of American GI's are groomed to rape children, and then they come back home, to our children. Our tax dollars at work."
Oh, REALLY???
What kooknut website did you get THAT BS from? lol
Your accusing our US troops of a felony (as was just done) is a serious matter, and we treat it as such.????
If this is old news where they were already convicted, it's a dead horse so perpetuating it as still ongoing is "baiting"-I take it this is a direct accusation of a felony that this alluding has not been addressed.
I'll be happy to pass it up the line if true (IF true), as they WILL listen to me.
What reference is cited for this outrageously lying accusation you just made?
Or is this yet another dailykook, DU, SPindymedia hack?
Or is this another haditha hoax in the making?
If they did, then let's see the evidence. AI's already been shot down in flames as per credibility, just like yours by your own words.
Courts deal with the nature of the evidence, not a seriousness of a crime accusation.
P-R-O-O-F.
Let's see it...NOW
grooming our troops to commit rape?????
You just been called on your GODDAMNED LIE!
PUT UP OR STFU you lying POS!
I can tolerate all the lies fraud and deceit of the left...they're laughable & don't bother me at all.
But you tell something that outrageous, making a felonious accusation, implying institutionalized rape grooming????
you BETTER be willing to prove it.
at November 6, 2007 5:05 PM
Shocked to read about Bolton. I can't believe there was someone in this administration that opposed jihadists. For me the kosovo issue is ground zero for the was against jihad. If we give in we set the precedent for the destruction of Europe. The bombing of Serbia in 1999 was a low point for the west and in particular the US.
Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 6, 2007 7:01 PM
Sad to say, poc, it was a low point...and being put under auspices of the Useless Numbnuts, Inc (UN) makes it ever more difficult to rectify and/or get out of (clinton did a good job of setting that one up).
I doubt anyone here disagrees that kosovo is a serbian province...
...but that aside, the number of people opposing jihadists in this administration, such as it is, actually outnumber those in the previous one.
Bolton's views have been no secret...one major reason why the far left elected officials were so adamantly against him staying in his post (read that as "ferociously against", which is a really big clue as their actions spoke louder than their words).
Bolton would make, at least, a great Secretary of State. He's not politically correct-he deals in common sense like the rest of us.
Posted by: jcom972 at November 6, 2007 7:09 PM
Well said, Enragedsince1999, many of NATO's bomb targeters were KLA leaders. Guys like Haradinaj ( under British control ) or Thaqi ( CIA control ) were equipped with phones and they'd tell NATO bombers who to kill. Now Thaqi has been labelled -by his handlers - as a violent psychopath, so it should give you an idea to the depths that NATO sank.
Haradinaj from the village of Gllogjan is now on trial for the slaying of many loyalist Kosovo Albanians in his fiefdom - Dukagjin Zone- in Kosovo. Even the ICTY couldn't ignore it in the end. From the opening address in his trial.
"The crimes charged here in this court involved acts of unspeakable brutality against an innocent civilian population, a population targeted by the accused and their KLA associates, either for not supporting the KLA or
merely - merely - for the perception of not supporting the KLA. Alleged collaborators were shown absolutely no mercy. They were driven from their homes, they were driven from their villages, they were abducted, they were held at the point of a gun against their will, they were tortured in prison camps under KLA control. These accused sitting in this court committed despicable crimes against humanity; they committed serious war crimes."
Female victims were raped, many had limbs cut off, eyes gouged out, it seems that being wrapped up in barbed wire to the back of a car and driven through town was a KLA favourite ploy.
And the victims crimes?
Ranged from being friendly with local Serbs, to being the son of someone who was a policeman. Stuff of that kind of henious nature.
Bodies were dumped in the local execution site at the Lake Radonjic. Serbs, Rom ( Gypsies ), loyalist Kosovo Albanians.
When NATO and the KLA took over the running of Kosoivo in 99, over 2,000 ethnic Serbs were murdered, often in daylight.
The entire Jewish community was torched out of their homes by the KLA. A NATO officer looked on and refused to do anything, according to the Jewish victims.
Good ole NATO. From winning the Cold War to actively siding with murderous psychos. How the mighty have fallen. And now their soldiers are propping up an Islamist state in Afghanistan.
From Class genius to neighbourhood crack head in a little over one decade.
That takes some doing.
at November 6, 2007 10:38 PM
From a practical perspective, maybe Serbians should consider cutting Kosovo loose (from a demographic perspective they've already lost it to Islamia anyway). They probably won't be able to do anything with it anyway and holding onto it may mean more bloodshed and warfare for these beleaguered people.
I am not saying that Serbs should cave into Islamic demands (far from it).However, at one time Albania might have been material for inclusion as part of a greater Balkan nation too; but the demographic jihad unfortunately for the Balkans was lost there too (only before Kosovo). The Serbs may want to keep in mind that fighting against Kosovar Muslims, however much they deserve to be defeated, may well entail fighting most of the Muslim world which at this point considers Kosovo as part of the ummah and will defend it with jihadists from all corners of the globe (a losing proposition for the Serbians assuredly).
I can see the reasons for fighting to hold onto Kosovo; but for purely practical reasons it may be wiser for the Serbs to say "auld lange syne" to the place--and ditch it and seal it off from greater Serbia. But that of course is their choice.
What has happened to the Balkans in Bosnia, Albania, and Kosovo is handwriting on the wall for the western democracies. The Muslim population in western Europe is now approaching 100 million and catastrophic conflicts as in Kosovo are in the offing across the oontinent; Kosovos in the future may prove more easy to avert than to reclaim.
at November 6, 2007 11:11 PM
From a practical perspective, maybe Serbians should consider cutting Kosovo loose (from a demographic perspective they've already lost it to Islamia anyway). They probably won't be able to do anything with it anyway and holding onto it may mean more bloodshed and warfare for these beleaguered people.
I am not saying that Serbs should cave into Islamic demands (far from it).However, at one time Albania might have been material for inclusion as part of a greater Balkan nation too; but the demographic jihad unfortunately for the Balkans was lost there too (only before Kosovo). The Serbs may want to keep in mind that fighting against Kosovar Muslims, however much they deserve to be defeated, may well entail fighting most of the Muslim world which at this point considers Kosovo as part of the ummah and will defend it with jihadists from all corners of the globe (a losing proposition for the Serbians assuredly).
I can see the reasons for fighting to hold onto Kosovo; but for purely practical reasons it may be wiser for the Serbs to say "auld lange syne" to the place--and ditch it and seal it off from greater Serbia. But that of course is their choice.
What has happened to the Balkans in Bosnia, Albania, and Kosovo is handwriting on the wall for the western democracies. The Muslim population in western Europe is now approaching 100 million and catastrophic conflicts as in Kosovo are in the offing across the continent; Kosovos in the future may prove more easy to avert than to reclaim.
at November 6, 2007 11:12 PM
From the interview with Cedomir Prlincevic - Chief Archivist of Kosovo and leader of the Jewish Community in Pristina
Question: Did you try to go to the KFOR?
Prlincevic: The KFOR was in my house when they came to there.
Question: WHAT?
Prelincevic: When Albanians started to destroy apartments one person called KFOR and KFOR officer came inside the house, he was there with his squad. There was a whole bunch going up and down the stairs, 24 hours pressure of people going up and down the stairs, banging, entering, demolishing… they break down the door and pour in tear gas in some places and they were robbing -
Question: Excuse me?
Prelincevic: Robbing, robbing.
Question: Now, you said the KFOR men were there? Did they actually witness it?
Prelincevic: Yes.
Question: What did they say?
Prelincevic: They didn't react at all. They didn't protect anybody.
)
The Jews of the area survived WW2.
Now, Kosovo is a Judenfrei area
Way to go lads.
Good ole NATO, the Islamists friend.
Posted by: ewha1 at November 6, 2007 11:32 PM
ewha1 My pleasure on the links. I have to a agree on Victor Davis Hanson, I think he has it right more than he doesn't, but I personally like his partner Bruce Thornton more. I imagine what bugs you about Hanson is what bugs me, he seems to not have gotten a good grasp on the falsification of events against the Serbs, he otherwise seems to be pretty savvy.
Now for Pythagoras I personally disagree on the cut your losses in Kosovo.
This land is historically Serbian and it would be criminal to allow it to go. I would rather see a population exchange of Kosovar Albanians shipped to Albania than Serbs giving up their land.
As for your point of fighting most of the Muslim world, you are correct as that seems to be the way it is with these people. That of course is where the US needs to step up to the plate and and support the Serbs instead of the Islamic aggressors.
Posted by: The fanatic at November 7, 2007 2:16 AM
Pythogras wrote: " The Serbs may want to keep in mind that fighting against Kosovar Muslims, however much they deserve to be defeated, may well entail fighting most of the Muslim world which at this point considers Kosovo as part of the ummah and will defend it with jihadists from all corners of the globe (a losing proposition for the Serbians assuredly). "
Most of the Muslim world fighting for control over Kosovo????
How did you come to that ridiculous conclusion?
I completely disagree. The entire Muslim world isn't about to fight for control over Kosovo.
True, there are jihadis from all over the globe in Kosovo that are willing to kill to advance Islam's surge into Kosovo, the Balkans, and greater Europe.
But Kosovo doesn't provide an electromagnetic impulse on the entire Muslim world to take up arms and drive out the Serbs from Kosovo.
Perhaps you exaggerated a wee bit here.
Also, simply "cutting Kosovo loose" and waving good-bye to the Serbian cultural and spiritual homeland of Kosovo is not in the Serbian mindset.
Serbs are fierce fighters who don't take losing very well. They understand quite well the logistics of warfare. When pushed into a corner, the Serbs fight back with incredible courage and intensity.
Serbs had Kosovo stolen away from them by advancing malicious Albanian Muslims. Someday in the future the Serbs will get Kosovo back and re-build it to its former splendor. Kosovo is the jewel of Serbia.
at November 7, 2007 2:17 AM
jcom
I strongly disagree with the statement by "Enraged" referring to US troops being "groomed to rape children", although I can vouch for the existence of the brothels he speaks about. The following article written by Sebastian Junger for the July 2002 editon of Vanity Fair deals with precisely this subject-
http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/kosovo_junger.htm#slaves
You can click on the link and scroll about half-way down the page till you get to the heading "Slaves of the Brothel" and read the article there.
I myself was in Kosovo a little more than a year ago and have seen with my own eyes what goes on there. The brothels in Prishtina are located on main streets disguised as normal businesses or on residential lanes where they appear from the street to be the typical three or four story cinderblock houses that are normal in the Balkans only in this instance is contained the "Nite-Club" on the first or basement floor with the girls living on the upper floors under lock and key; only allowed out once or twice a month for diversion, under their "escort's" supervision. They're illegal and have been officialy "shut down", yet they still thrive on word of mouth business from UN personnel and NGO tramps(I was told Kfor troops had been ordered confined on base when not on patrol since some time before I got there as the environment was considered hostile). I befriended some locals who took me to one of these places after I'd asked about them (my curiosity piqued by the same Junger piece I referred to above). I spoke with some Moldovan girls, none of whom seemed underaged and all had come knowing what they were getting into yet it's true that they were kept under lock and key, allowed out only rarely and with escort and none of them could leave if they wanted to as they hadn't yet earned enough to buy back their freedom( although at least two of them had been there long enough to speak fluent Albanian).
I got the sense that they had been raped and beaten by their pimps. Only some months later was I told by a Macedonian police lieutenant in Skopje that it was indeed the practice of Albanian pimps to induce fear and loyalty by treating the girls in such a manner and later to have his account confirmed by a BBC report on brothels in Soho, London which are run almost exclusively by Albanian gangs. While the girls I questioned had not been forced in to this work, it is estimated (and this is a number quoted by several different organizations for trafficked women) that around 20,000 girls are missing from Albania alone- having been sold by their parents into slavery for as little as 400 euros, lured away by promise of marriage or work abroad and even kidnapped on the streets in broad daylight to be used as sex-slaves for foreign workers and NATO/UN troops in Kosovo and Macedonia but mostly in Western Europe. Everybody there knows this has been going on.
It's a dirty little secret about NATO's Humanitarian War that more rapes and killings have occurred in Kosovo under NATO occupation than had occurred before NATO invaded with the stated pretext of preventing rapes and killings.
There's just no more sense to anything...
pardon me while I go sing "Mesecina"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ5BGGHT8nQ
Posted by: november1981 at November 7, 2007 4:22 AM
Fanatic-
"I would rather see a population exchange of Kosovar Albanians shipped to Albania than Serbs giving up their land."
All full up in Jersey?
Posted by: november1981 at November 7, 2007 4:26 AM
From November1981:"yet they still thrive on word of mouth business from UN personnel and NGO tramps(I was told Kfor troops had been ordered confined on base when not on patrol since some time before I got there as the environment was considered hostile"
That's what I'd read too. They're making a killing -geddit- off the NGOs. Typical really.
From Fanatic:I imagine what bugs you about Hanson is what bugs me, he seems to not have gotten a good grasp on the falsification of events against the Serbs, he otherwise seems to be pretty savvy."
Oh spot on. Like many NeoCons he gets it soooo right in the analysis of Islam, etc, and then essentially throws it all away and says we must democratise the ME and support the muslims in the Balkans, start a new Cold war with Russia, blah di blah di blah
And sod the cost both financially and in dead servicemen.
It's almost as if the NeoCons haven't read what they've written.
November:"There's just no more sense to anything...
Couldn't agree more. The world's gone nuts.
Posted by: ewha1 at November 7, 2007 5:14 AM
Thank you for your take, and your cordiality, november.
It's a refreshing change considering the white noise usually present at times...
Yes, (in conjunction with your references article) rapes happen a lot, unfortunately, especially in zones like that. It's beyond despicable.
I don't doubt your take (we're more in agreement than some here think, especially those who don't read MY posts-but that's another subject entirely), but that's not at issue with me...
being accused of a capital crime IS, especially since it also constitutes a war crime, and I also have trained troops/personnel so it's tantamount to accusing me and my peers directly, as if institutionalized process...that's where I draw the line.
He not only has no proof whatsoever, his claim simply didn't/doesn't exist...
I called him a Goddamned liar, because he is.
Rape by our own troops is an aberration, not the norm, and we DO go after them on it, provided there's reasonable proof (even circumstantials can work at times).
Again, not the point of my contention...
To suggest we somehow, as an institution, allow, condone or otherwise groom our soldiers to commit rape is beyond the pale...it's downright schizoprenic.
Like I said...calling me names I laugh at-calling me what amounts to a war criminal-by God that's enough, and they better be prepared to prove it.
But he can't, as such an act based on his outrageous accusation simply didn't happen, and doesn't happen.
I should know about bogus accusers like that...I helped exposed jesse al-zaid (aka, jesse macbeth) the phony soldier who also made outrageous war crime claims, as well as that scott thomas beauchamp assclown who did the same thing...both are facing the music, too.
Again, thanks november.
I look forward to more of your posts.
at November 7, 2007 5:53 AM
For all those who dare to claim that Kosovo "independence" is inevitable:
The Albanians in Kosovo are mostly not native to the province, having infiltrated and/or invaded from Albania at various times during the past century - most notably by having participated in the Nazi occupation of Serbia.
To allow them to remain in Kosovo is to ratify and to reward the evil deeds of the Third Reich and of the Communist regime that followed.
They have a place to live - Albania.
Posted by: 1389 at November 7, 2007 10:30 AM
Linked to this article from here:
U.S. Balkans Policy Finally Comes Up For Debate
Posted by: 1389 at November 7, 2007 1:59 PM
jcom972:
Don't you think thy protesteth too much? Why do you take this personally? Did I accuse you or the soldiers you trained and commanded of anything? But to blanketly vouch for ALL US military personnel - this impunges your entire credibility right there. Are we to believe that only NGO's can rape children, but if a person who is in the US military is beyond reproach or even suspicion? Do you expect everybody to jump up and salute every time anyone mentions the US military? Sorry, I am not a mindlessly saluting person. There are no idols for me. I am one who picks up the biggest log around and knocks the idol down. Sure, the command responsibility rests with the criminal Clinton, but I don't excuse those GI's who get involved in crimes on their free will, and I ain't about to salute any of them. When US Army Sgt. Audra Wood, a patriotic young woman serving in Iraq, is forcibly raped at knife-point by her fellow soldier, I ain't about to salute her rapist, or her commanders who accused her of lying, refused to investigate and tried to cover-up the crime. I ain't gonna salute the Air Force Academy thugs in uniform who raped hundreds of young women cadets, or the Academy commanders who tried to cover it up. You strike me as someone who errs on cover-up side instead of facing the truth. I don't believe everything AI and HRW say, but I do believe them on this one, exactly because they were biased against the Serbs before. I do believe that many US military prsonnel rape little girls as young as 10 or 11 in those sex-slave brothels, just as the US and UN vermin do. You want PROOF? Why don't you go to Kosovo youself undercover as a sex-tourist and check for yourself, before calling me a liar? The indisputable truth is that there is a lot of rot in the US military, and speaking out against those wrongs is what true American patriotism is. But total, unthinking denial that you display is the rotten kind of patriotism.
Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at November 7, 2007 11:28 PM
Correction: I meant "thou protesteth too much".
Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at November 7, 2007 11:39 PM
I didn't say you postest to much...
I said you're a goddamned liar...and since you have so far furnished no proof of your outrageously bogus accusations, looks like my claims are valid.
YOU said in no uncertain terms we groomed troops to rape...that is a L-I-E...PERIOD.
Since I trained many of those soldiers, that is de facto impuning/indicting ME.
You damned an institution,which I was very much a part of, you are damning ME as well...
your bogus accusation amounts to not only a capital crime, but a war crime.
I drew the line, you failed to back your lie up as I knew you would, that's that.
It has nothing to do with aberrations/isolated incidents like that diversionary you just uttered to save your own lying ass...YOU said in no uncertain terms we groom soldiers to rape...
You can't, or won't address my calling your lie...
it's obvious as to why...you CAN'T...because it IS the lie I said it was/is.
I stand on my position, you have done nothing to counter my counterclaim of your lie, save that diversionary BS on irrelevant tangents which have ZERO to do with your accusation of my soldiers/personnel, and nothing to do with any refutation of my claim that you're the liar I said you were/are....'nuf sed.
You're a goddamned liar...end of story.
...and lay off the kook fringe websites you obviously get such BS from...
I said in effect...
put up or STFU
you failed to put up...do the math, LIAR.
Next time try lies that are at least ALMOST believable...that one you uttered is downright schizophrenic, and so beyond-illucid that nobody believed it...not that it surprises me any.
I stand on my position.
You told an outrageous lie
You made an outrageous accusation of capital crimes
You got your lie called on
You couldn't back it up...not even remotely.
You lost all credibility with that outrageous act
You have only YOU to blame for your outrageous accusation which proved to be a lie by your own words...and lack thereof following.
You lied, case closed.
End of story.
at November 8, 2007 2:34 AM
Some more testimony of NATO troops aiding the torture and murder of Loyalist Kosovo Albanians, ethnic Serbs, ethnic Turks, Rom, etc in Kosovo.
We've already heard of how the entire Jewish community was burnt out of their homes with NATO officers approvingly standing by. My! We rightly criticise Iran for their treatment of the tiny Jewish community in Iran, but at least the Iranians don't torch all the Jewish families out of their homes and threaten to execute them all.
Now from a loyalist Kosovo Albanian. A muslim too, who spoke of what happened once the Serbs left in 99 and NATO/KLA took over.
The guys name is Saban Fazliu. He came from the central area of Kosovo -Drenica- which was a KLA stronghold all the way back to WW2 when remnants of the SS Skenderbeg division held up there in the hills for years after WW2.
He was a forest ranger and testified in the ICTY as a defence witness in the Slobo trial- it may sound almost comical, but being a forest ranger was, according to the KLA, a death sentence. Many loyalist Kosovo Albanians were executed along with their entire families because they worked as a forest ranger. As I said, it's so bizarre it's almost comical-
http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/050819ED.htm
(
Page 42874
Witness: On the 12th, as soon as they entered, Avdi Musa was killed. This is my first example. And they began to torch houses, Serb houses, Albanian houses, houses of Albanians who didn't follow their orders. And KFOR, not UNMIK, helped them in this. I heard with my own ears when two persons came to kill me in my own house. We caught one of them. One of them managed to escape. So when KFOR came, the police, I don't know if it was KFOR police or UNMIK police, when they came, the interpreter was Albanian, and she said to him, "Don't be afraid. We will release you immediately." She thought that I was a Serb and that person came to kill me. She didn't know I was Albanian. And this is whatt I heard with my own ears when she told him, "We will release you immediately." His name was Fadil Krasniqi from Grnijsa Evijeter [phoen], and his friend managed to escape. This is true what I am saying.
Question: Were many Albanians killed after KFOR came to Kosovo?
Witness: Only from my circle of friends five were killed, Naser Haziri, Isuf Sakica, Avdyle Trstena, Islam from Belince is also killed, and Ismajl from Godance.
)
And now Kosovo is the HQ for the traffiking in underage sex slaves.
Way to go lads.
Posted by: ewha1 at November 8, 2007 3:14 AM
...and take the white-noised sock puppeted peanut gallery agenda, seen coming miles away, with you...this obsession which is nothing less than get-even-withem-ism is also obvious, and doesn't help the topic at all-just their own chest thumping.
(useless numbnuts, aka UN, studies have even less credibility after the frauds they got nailed with-if that's the best they have they're in serious trouble ), especially being called neo-cons, by neo-COMs who invented the term anyway.
...too little, too late...and too bad.
In the mean time, back to topic, unlike the obsessed-keteers tangent...
I hope Bolton succeeds with his position-he has a lot of support, including me & my peers...despite the white noise otherwise cluttering the bandwidth above for their own personal agendas whose words are no longer important via their own actions.
Such words are no longer important, since their own personal credibility is shot to hell...and only hurts the real victims of those as per the topic that's otherwise legit, unlike the attempted lies spewed forth by those on an entirely different agenda altogether.
I rested my case (again)...some chest-thumpers just can't seem to get over that one.
*yawn*
at November 8, 2007 3:31 AM
From 1389:"The Albanians in Kosovo are mostly not native to the province, having infiltrated and/or invaded from Albania at various times during the past century - most notably by having participated in the Nazi occupation of Serbia."
Very true. That crazed Maoist-cum-Stalinist-cum-Marxist demented midget, Hoxa, created such a poverty stricken cesspool in Albania that they swarmed over the border in their 10's of 1,000s to Kosovo. The Yugos - in their kindness - let them settle in Kosovo, where almost immediately they started to demand independence from Yugoslavia.
No good deed goes unpunished.
This fear/worry of the radicalised Kosovo Albanians came not only from the Serbs but from everyone in what was then Yugoslavia. Amongst Serbian, Croatian, Muslim, Slovene, Macedonian, and all other politicians, there was absolutely no difference in the assessment of the situation in Kosovo and Metohija.
From Mr Spencer's introductory blurb:"One of the supreme ironies of the "Global War on Terror" has been the consistency with which the US has pursued pro-jihadist foreign and military policies since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979."
Oh very well said, Sir.
We can't rectify our mistakes if we refuse even to admit them.
Mr Spencer is one of the few people on the internet who points this terrible mistake out.
Our MSM is so goddam bleedin' awful they can't/won't/refuse to highlight it.
In Kosovo, our taxpayers money went to Jihadis who slaughtered with impunity. With our soldiers doing nothing. It's that simple.
In many ways Kosovo is a simple islamist land grab. Even the Ottomans, in their census taking, noted that almost no ethnic Albanians lived in Kosovo - I'll find the data - And soon it'll be only ethnic Albnanians who live there.
Well done lads.
at November 8, 2007 4:31 AM
About the mass expulsion of the entire Jewish community from Pristina, right after NATO and the KLA took over Kosovo in 99, the fearless - and lovely lovely lovely - Julia Gorin did some sterling work.
Posted by: ewha1 at November 8, 2007 4:48 AM
jcom972:
Every time the US military are accused of doing wrong, whether it is bombing a wedding in the Afghan village of Kakarak - which was not only peaceful but pro-American, home to an anti-Taliban revolt - or the murder of Pat Tillman by his fellow GI's, the "proud US military's" response is frustratingly predictable: Lie and Deny. This is exactly the attitude you are exibiting here - I guess, it is deeply ingrained in our military's culture, unfortunately.
Why do you keep claiming that you trained those soldiers in Kosovo? Did you really train those GI's who are raping little girls in those child-rape houses there? Because they are doing that. The mere fact that Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch who went along with the US and NATO aggression against Serbia had to condemn them speaks volumes. Even more tellingly, the infamous Guardian of all newspapers, one of the most rabid anti-Serb rags carried the story: "NATO force accused of "feeding Kosovo sex trade"", Ian Trainor, The Guardian, May 7, 2004. NATO soldiers - who are first and foremost US Army GI's - are accused to their faces of being child-rapists, so why did the US military take it lying down? Why didn't it do its usual Lie and Deny thing? Why didn't those US military lawers receiving 6-figure salaries refute accusations this damning? Could it be that the hard evidence presented by AI and cross-corroborated by that of HRW is ... irrefutable? Can you refute it? Caution: name-calling will not do it. BBC reported it as well, on May 6. And 2 weeks earlier, UN peacekeeping department in NY admitted that NATO troops are the root of the problem.
at November 8, 2007 7:11 PM
You just don't get it, liar,
you're not gonna get out of this one...
you can't refute my calling you on that lie you told...then again, Iknew you were lying the second you uttered it. Your allies have tried this ad nauseum for years already=and they were also shot down in flames where they belong.
Your projectionistic pahblum is what's predictable, so save the "predictable" anything.
Look in a mirror...and that goes double for your sidekick troll too.
you haven't come up with a single thing to back your lie up,
and you accuse me and my peers of capital crimes, again, with NOTHING to back up your lies.
Forget the fact that all you and your lackeys diversions don't answer anything, forget the fact that you also fail to face fact that crimes must be backed up by proof...which you have NONE, nor do they...and if the long discredited for their own propaganda AI is all you have, then you still have NO proof of your accusations of crime.
I called you a goddamned liar
I meant it.
And based on you and your lame lying lackeys lack of any effective refutations of my calling you on it, it's still standing.
YOU...ARE...A...GODDAMNED...LIAR.
Now STFU since you can't PUT up.
Or...you can continue your obvious trolldom, which is all you obviously have left.
you give seljaks a bad name.
at November 8, 2007 7:57 PM
From Mr Spencer's introduction:"Not even the spectacular carnage of 9/11 has shaken the resolve of the State Department, for example, to back Muslim demands against Christian Serbia in Kosovo. The US of course backed jihadis during the Balkan wars of the 1990s, first the Bosnians and later the KLA in Kosovo."
Yes, unfortuanetly too true. How can such a great country make such god awful foreign policy decisions?
It's difficult to explain away the picture the MSM paint with the reality when it comes to Kosovo -or Israel, Bosnia, Kashmir, South Sudan, for that matter -
Even crass supidity can't explain so many lies, distortions, blatant propaganda, etc.
Take the situation of the ethnic minorities in Kosovo. You'd have expected, say, the ethnic Turks, to be close allies of the KLA. History and all that.
The reality was that they had a bloody good deal under Belgrade rule.
They had a half dozen schools where their children could be taught in their mother tongue, TV and radio programmes which broadcast Turkish music, culture programmes, etc - Suzana Taskra ( sp ) was a frequent presenter from Prizren - they had two drama companies that performed all over Europe, their senior Kosovo politicians were amongst the delegates at the Rambouillet- talks -on the Serb side of course, the KLA side had only ethnic Albanians - etc etc etc.
During NATO's bombing campaign, practically the entire ethnic Turk population held a massive rally in defence of Yugoslavia, some 30,000 attended in Prizren in April 99.
After KLA/NATO took over, many ethnic Turks were immediately sacked from their jobs, many were kidnapped - ethnic Turk President Adem Koc for instance -
Things got so bad for the ethnic Turks they demanded, and got, a HUGE Turkish army base in Prizren to try to protect them. That's how bad things are now for these people. But in the long run they're screwed, really screwed.
And compared with the other ethnic minorities, the ethnic Turks have it good. The ethnic Croats have all but ceased to exist in the place.
Well done lads.
Posted by: ewha1 at November 9, 2007 3:05 AM
Ah, diversions, diversions...mikie-the-moore-on couldn't be prouder...or is it vladimir posner...lol
Someone's obviously still sore about slobosovietsky's downfall...not that it has anything to do with the goddamned liar who falsely accused me and my peers of a capital/war crime...and failed to back it up in any way...and the lap dog runs diversionary interference to cover his withdrawl.
lol
Well, no doubt where such unfortunates come from, as Dr Jack Wheeler also had THEM pegged years ago, just as he did the islamists:
From his site @ http://tothepointnews.com
Kudos to optor:
"Otpor in Serbia
In October 1998, a group of Serbian university students formed a democracy movement dedicated to ending the (communist) dictatorship of Slobodan Milosevic. The movement was called Otpor! – Resistance! – and advocated relentless, well-organized, yet nonviolent street demonstrations and protests. Such a method – known as “Triple U” for Uncontrollable Urban Unrest – had been used to overthrow the Soviet colonial regimes of Eastern Europe in 1989.
Otpor was distinct in two ways. It was amorphous, with no charismatic leader attracting publicity and whose elimination would disband it. It was extremely street-smart clever. Otpor sought in particular, for example, to appeal to the police, forswearing violence, telling policemen they were fellow victims of an oppressive regime, with signs at protests saying: “Some victims are in blue jeans, others in blue uniforms.”
By mid-1999, persevering against gangs of Milosevic’s thugs, Otpor had grown from a few hundred students to over 4,000 members; by mid-2000 to over 70,000. In the September 24, 2000 presidential election, opposition candidate Vojislav Kostunica defeated Milosevic. When Milosevic attempted to force a second round of the election, Otpor staged a series of mass rallies in Belgrade chanting the slogan gotov je – “He’s finished.” On October 5, Otpor students and Kostunica supporters stormed the parliament and occupied Serbian state television. Two days later Milosevic conceded electoral defeat, and Kostunica was inaugurated. Otpor’s democratic revolution had succeeded. "- Dr. Jack Wheeler
Like I said...they have their own agenda, but that , like their bogus accusations of me and my peers which they cannot back up, bear no link to the topic anyway...it's about their bruised egos.
*yawn*
at November 9, 2007 5:14 AM
From the Mr Spencer's introduction:"John Bolton is the most prominent former Administration official so far to be so outspoken about the U.S. policy in the former Yugoslavia."
Well, good on Mr Bolton. NATO not only went into business with Al Qaeda linked terrorists they somehow managed to trump that gargantuan mistake by making sure the group -the KLA- was led by a Maoist. Thaqi was/is a Maoist.
It's almost quaint.
Yes, a Maoist. Mao, who somehow managed to out Stalin Stalin.
Even the Soviets, in the 1950's, threw the Stalinist crap out of the window. But it got a new lease of life in the late 90's when NATO went into partnership with a proud Maoist.
Well done NATO.
Jcom: I remember when you said that you knew quote "many psychiatrists" unquote. From reading - or trying the read- the near illegible postings from you on this thread, I can see why.
I do hope they're not charging you too much.
Posted by: ewha1 at November 9, 2007 5:33 AM
LOL
lousy try from a mental projectionist, whose own writings on this entire site indicate rabidly hyperpartisan ideology (not that the equally bogus accusations of US trying to revive a cold war with russia gave that schizophrenia away, considering putin's own lunacy claiming we want to invade him & take their resources, lol...total lunacy)
what the little lap dog omitted was HOW I knew them as I helped THEM do evals on people.
No wonder they can't stay on topic (or refute my calling the liars the liars they are)-they don't wish to...LOL
Like I said, mikie-the-moore-on couldn't be prouder of them.
*yawn*
at November 9, 2007 6:13 AM
Oh, and save the pathetic johnny-come-lately claim of reading my posts NOW...had that been done first time, I wouldn't have had to park such lunatics to begin with...then again, reading posts isn't in the cards for hyperpartisan ideologues like them- trolling for targets of bruised egos IS.
Malignant narcissism tends to do that to them.
(those "psychiatrists" were instructors-they helped me write evals on personnel, something completely foreign to said ideologues who DO need their services)
Sheesh...they sound more like college freshmen than adults (or maybe they're just spelled "aDOLTs").
at November 9, 2007 6:21 AM
Oh har de har, November1981, I'd missed it, namely your post -some 30 posts down on this thread- where you clear up the mystery of this most exotic sounding location: Kosova
Hilarious, November 1981. You found where Kosova is located. In Kenya of all places.
Good one.
From Mr Jewish woof woof:"I find the Bolton situation extremely disconcerting."
Me too. The best politician the World has, surely. And now he's gone. Somehow I just knew he was too good to last.
at November 10, 2007 3:17 AM
Oh har de har, November1981, I'd missed it, namely your post -some 30 posts down on this thread- where you clear up the mystery of this most exotic sounding location: Kosova
Hilarious, November 1981. You found where Kosova is located. In Kenya of all places.
Good one.
From Mr Jewish woof woof:"I find the Bolton situation extremely disconcerting."
Me too. The best politician the World has, surely. And now he's gone. Somehow I just knew he was too good to last.
at November 10, 2007 3:19 AM
Aaaargh! The curse of the double posting strikes again. Chizzers
Posted by: ewha1 at November 10, 2007 3:22 AM
From Jonathan:I am extremely disappointed that the United States and the U.N. are supporting the movement to make Kosovo an independent Muslim state.....I have a message for NATO and the UN:....NO MORE MUSLIM STATE BUILDING IN EUROPE!"
Oh well said, Jonathan. There were some wonderful attempts at trying to justify not only the 99 bombing campaign but also the independence issue.
Take "Operation Horseshoe". A sad hoax that claimed the Serbs actually had a plan to expel the entire Kosovo Albanian population. One of the funniest aspects of the hoax was the fact that a great many of the words were words that only a Croat would use. Also, a NATO colonel claimed to have been given this plan yet his senior, in the OSCE, a general, stated under oath that he was never told of this. All rather strange to say the least.
Even the ICTY in their case against Slobo refused to touch this silly attempt at smearing the Serbs.
Jcom: So you are now claiming that a voice, claiming to be the Lord, told you He/She intentionally made the post appear twice?
Hmmmmmm!
Your quote "many psychiatrists" unquote really do have their work cut out.
Snigger
at November 10, 2007 8:05 PM
Ya just gotta love white noise like that...but nothing less than expected from rank amateurs who have nothing left but infantile antics like putting words in my mouth (if not an outright lie like he just did), and my favorite, his ASSumptions.
All this, despite the fact such neanderthals STILL cannot back up the bogus lie they made of me and my peers addressed above in the thread...that is, before the lackey spewed his witless work if white noise.
The Lord really does work in mysterious ways...too bad the lackey doesn't get the hint of his dead-horse beating.
Sometimes ya just gotta laugh at them.
Checkmate.
:-D
at November 10, 2007 10:49 PM
The officer was a Colonel Richard Ciaglinski - of the Kosovo Verification Mission KVM- and judging by his testimony in the Hague he was obviously an extremely capable officer. Articulate, clear, informed. Yet we are supposed to believe that a Yugo officer, just weeks before NATO started bombing, told this officer in great detail how the Yugoslav army was going to fight the KLA? And at the end of this lengthly divulgence of what, essentially are state secrets, the Yugoslav officer adds "And when we have finished dealing with the KLA, we will remove all the Albanians from the territory of Kosovo forever". His exact supposed words.
It's stuff the baddie from the James Bond movies would say. In some lair in a friggin' volcano off the coast of Japan FFS. You can just picture Mr Naughty doing his evil laugh and saying "And all the World's gold bullion will be mine, all mine NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH"
And if that's bizarre - to say the least - then Colonel Ciaglinski's direct superior, General -yes, a General- Drewienkiewicz - DZ - stated under oath that at no time was he told of this conversation. Now how believable is that?
Are we to suppose that, upon hearing this amazing bit of news from a Yugo officer, Colonel Ciaglinski wouldn't bother informing his superior? Hardly credible to say the least. Mr Ciaglinski is anything but a fool. So is it possible that General DZ was told of this but somehow forgot? Hardly credible either. No one would forget somthing like this and you don't get to be General if you have Alzheimers. So we are left with the only alternative, namely, that it's all pile of lies.
i.e. There really was no plan to expel the Kosovo Albanians - and the fact that the ICTY couldn't find a single witness to testify that they'd been ordered to leave Kosovo by the Yugo forces should speak volumes -
But the damage is done. The whole Operation Horseshoe story was given huge publicity by the MSM and especially in Germany. Germany was the key because the public support for the bombing by NATO was falling very low. The Operation Horsehoe hoax came at just the right time.
The shit sticks so to speak.
You can see this kind of deceit with regards to Israel. The truth, when it does finally come out, is at such a low volume that no one hears or cares, and even for those that do listen, it's too late. The damage is done.
Today Serbia, tomorrow Israel
JComYou're so right. When someone double posts on JW it can only mean one thing and one thing only.Ooooh arrrr it be the Lord's work it be. Same with lightning ooooh aaaaar. God is showing us he's mighty displeased, he be. Thunder too, oooooh arrrrrrr. Same when Daisy the cow fell ill, oooooh arrrrrr. You're so right, bumpkin JCom so right.
Get ooorrrfffff moy larrrrrrnd
Posted by: ewha1 at November 11, 2007 6:06 AM
Some gumbah's don't know when to stop their incessant diversionaries...not that it's any surprise. lol
I'm still waiting for any proof of the bogus accusation, which isn't coming anyway, not that it's any surprise...at least the bogus accuser had the good sense to walk away when nailed...this little pot calling the kettle black, well, he's another story entirely with the inexplicable meltdown he's going through...ya tend to expect that from a putin fan. college freshmen, ya know...lol
At any rate, my point's proven, the bogus accusation's been shot down...so I guess I can let the little ego-thumper finish his trashing the thread like he does in his usual predictable trolldom. We can always tell...they claim a quoe but won't furnish the link providing it (usually because the source is dubious at best, and ends up diminishing what otherwise would have been a legit point...but facts aren't important to them-politics is).
I'll leave this for the troll...he'll need it...
for his issues.
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/89/60/22186089.jpg
LOL
Posted by: jcom972 at November 11, 2007 10:49 AM
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