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In Human Events this week I discuss the mini-controversy over some old memo by Rumsfeld:
Donald Rumsfeld, retired for almost a year, has inadvertently touched off one last firestorm this week with the release in the Washington Post of some staff memos he wrote while in office. In one, he observed that oil billions have shielded Muslims “from the reality of the work, effort and investment that leads to wealth for the rest of the world. Too often Muslims are against physical labor, so they bring in Koreans and Pakistanis while their young people remain unemployed. An unemployed population is easy to recruit to radicalism.”Predictably, the Council on American Islamic Relations was offended. CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper huffed that Rumsfeld’s remarks indicated a “stereotypical attitude” that had led to the American invasion of Iraq. “Our policy was never based on reality,” opined Hooper. “It was based on the wild ideas of those who wanted to invade the region....It shows you what kind of wrong-headed policymakers we had at the time.”
With a firestorm brewing, the White House quickly disavowed Rumsfeld’s statement: “It’s not in line with the president’s views,” explained spokeswoman Dana Perino. “We are aware that we have a lot of work to do in order to win hearts and minds across the Arab world and the Muslim world. And I can understand why they would be offended by those comments.”But did they really have reason to be offended? What had Rumsfeld said that was offensive? That many Muslims in oil-rich states such as Saudi Arabia don’t like physical labor, and so they bring in foreign workers? And that young men there with nothing to do can drift into jihad groups? But Saudi Arabia does indeed have a large number of immigrant laborers, as well as a youthful population with a lot of money and time on its hands. Might some of these young men find a purpose in life in the jihad?
In reality, no neutral observer would dispute it. The Times of London reported this week that “an analysis by NBC News suggested that the Saudis make up 55% of foreign fighters in Iraq. They are also among the most uncompromising and militant. Half the foreign fighters held by the US at Camp Cropper near Baghdad are Saudis.”
And the House of Saud has done little to prevent young Saudi men from joining the jihad; in fact, it has been encouraged at the highest levels. The Saudi chief justice, Sheikh Saleh al-Luhaidan, said in 2004: “If someone knows that he is capable of entering Iraq in order to join the fight, and if his intention is to raise up the word of God, then he is free to do so.” The Times also notes that even after 9/11, “despite promises to crack down on radical imams, Saudi mosques continued to preach hatred of America.” And with American troops right next door in Iraq, and nothing much to do at home, all too many Saudis went north to act on that hatred.
Instead of taking offense at Rumsfeld’s statement and deriding it as evidence of a “stereotypical attitude,” CAIR could have taken the release of his memo as an opportunity to explain what they’re doing to prevent young Muslims from being enticed by the jihad ideology that has snared all too many youthful Saudis. Instead, once again the organization, which bills itself as the nation’s leading Muslim civil rights group, chose to take the low road of finger-pointing instead of offering real solutions.
CAIR’s reaction was characteristic; much more disheartening was the White House response, which had the air of an abused wife being afraid to bring up her husband’s drinking problem, for fear he would fly into a rage. The release of the Rumsfeld could have been an occasion for the White House to call the Saudis to account for the double game they have long been playing in regard to jihad terrorism. With the Saudi King Abdullah on a high-profile visit to Great Britain, where he has upbraided the British for not doing enough to fight the war on terror, the timing would have been perfect.
Another opportunity missed.
Posted by Robert at November 6, 2007 8:07 AM
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"Donald Rumsfeld, retired for almost a year, has inadvertently touched off one last firestorm this week with the release in the Washington Post of some staff memos he wrote while in office. In one, he observed that oil billions have shielded Muslims “from the reality of the work, effort and investment that leads to wealth for the rest of the world. Too often Muslims are against physical labor, so they bring in Koreans and Pakistanis while their young people remain unemployed. An unemployed population is easy to recruit to radicalism.”
This is EXACTLY in all truth the reality in Saudi Arabia right now, here today. Why the firestorm? Are we supposed to pretend the ultra rich welfare state of the Saud's have created doesn't exist...and its not a breeding ground for disillusioned Muslims who become easy pickings for suicide missions?
Posted by: SoteriA![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 6, 2007 8:24 AM
It just goes to show that truth is the first casualty of politics.
Posted by: tanstaafl at November 6, 2007 8:27 AM
In many ways what Rumsfeld said is no different than what Amnesty International has noted from a different angle. The practical apartheid and exploitation of "guest workers" (especially in Saudi-A-Totolitarian-Gas-Station) is an open secret. It's the gas station that prevents Amnesty International from gaining any traction on this matter. As for Fibrahim Hooper, his internalization of Arab-racist-supremacist-Islamic dogmas and rituals has put him in a Chuckle-head trance when it comes to objective truth and reality. He is a deciever and therefore a self-deciever. (This clown of the CAIR-liar circus couldn't even see through a sociopath liar like the Reverend Jim Nutter).
Rumsfeld and Amnesty International speak to the truth on this matter. However, the gas station influence is hard to overcome (at this time). That may change if Rudy Giuliani becomes president.
Posted by: Frank at November 6, 2007 8:32 AM
All these idiot reporters have to do is look at the number of foreign nationals are employed in the Gulf countries to determine the validity of Rumsfeld statement.
It's obvious that the Arabs either can't or won't work at labor jobs.
Posted by: Vince at November 6, 2007 8:32 AM
Vince:
It's obvious that the Arabs either can't or won't work at labor jobs.
Perhaps they are wishing they had some slaves (like the good old days) to do these unpleasant tasks for them.
Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at November 6, 2007 8:38 AM
Heck, that's old news known for decades...bringing in a slave class to abuse, leaving their own to rot in the desert...then when they cause problems at home, the royal family are simply "go on kid, get outta here...go commit homicide bombing somewhere else...anywhere but here" then call it "fighting terror"...their country is like the USSR only from within...
...then again, hey, it's CAIR causing the firestorm, and WaPo has sucked up to them repeatedly before.
They don't like bad PR-it causes them to have an "internal spiritual struggle"...
As before...I'd be very surprised if the house of saud lasts past 2010...as it will implode from within, under its own dead weight.
...and if Rumsfeld released it to WaPo, who h-a-t-e-s his g-u-t-s anyway, you can bet it was to let them chew on it, as they'd release anything if they knew it would cause problems for W (who probably knew its impending release beforehand), which it didn't...but it did for CAIR...lol
I'd bet W & Rummy are laughing their @$$es off right about now at the press...and this was all calcualted (and age-old practice, in politicalspeak: "feeding the jackals")...it has the pattern of a colossal chess game...and the playing board is the planet.
Absolutely Brilliant!
at November 6, 2007 8:41 AM
Don's words could not be more true.
We've had friends and relatives who have worked over there for decades in oil field and civil engineering jobs. What he describes is EXACTLY how the situation is. 'Spoiled' and 'lazy' are two really good descriptive adjectives for the natives.
at November 6, 2007 8:44 AM
Good ol Rummy LOL
Posted by: Elric66 at November 6, 2007 8:46 AM
Note added to above comment: Rudy Giuliani has to be very careful-especially if he receives the nomination for president. I have no doubt, that during a campaign, it will come out that his life has been in danger from belief-system operatives both before and after 911. I detect in Rudy a personal edge in this matter. He knows what these clowns are about. This guy knows a lot about the gas station and its role in Jihad.
Posted by: Frank at November 6, 2007 8:50 AM
I belive that part of CAIR's mission statement is to "be offended," so their "hurt feelings" are as bogus as a three-and-a-half-dollar-Euro.
What I find terribly disturbing is this:
Dana Perino ... “We are aware that we have a lot of work to do in order to win hearts and minds across the Arab world and the Muslim world.And I can understand why they would be offended by those comments.”
This is down right dangerous and should offend anyone who cares about America.
I never liked Rumsy, but this particular statement of his is true nevertheless.
More disturbing than any lawsuit the CAIR could trump-up in American courts to harrass and intimidate American citizens into dhimitude, is the reaction and the attitude of the leaders who are supposed to protecting us from them.
It case you just can't seem to connect the dots let me spell out exactly what the White House has just said via Dana Parino -- "SCREW YOU AMERICAN CITIZENS, our loyalties are with islam and all their various goals and interests!"
Posted by: witness at November 6, 2007 9:03 AM
Doug Hooper really should go visit KSA more often, in fact I'll bet he could find lucrative work there.
The very seat of the religion, it should be the thought of every real moslem....live near Mecca, since jobs (according to him) are plentiful, all moslems should be employed there with the riches stolen from the infidels.
$96 a barrel oil, when we discovered the oilfields, brought it to production...until it was nationalized.
We should make food and all western commodities as expensive to them as their oil is to us.
I know we don't get the whole of our fuel from the Gulf, but they are, along with Castrolite are setting the bar high, trying to break us.
at November 6, 2007 9:03 AM
I read this and found it interesting that Rummy noted the poor work ethic of the Muslim, something other people have also noticed. The United States has immigrants from all over the world of different races and religions who are willing to assimilate and work hard in pursuit of the American dream.USA Today had an article about Hindu immigrants from India who have become power players in the hotel industry through hard work and an attitude of service. Contrast that with certain Muslim immigrants such as some Somalis in Minnesota who rather then working hard and assimilating seek to impose their religion on customers and employers, by denying cab rides to the blind or refusing to scan bacon at the local grocery store.
Posted by: Roxane at November 6, 2007 9:18 AM
Does Ibrahim Hooper think that the world has failed to notice what goes on in Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Kuwait, Qatar, and every else where the Arabs, through an accident of geology, have acquired great, continuing, and completely undeserved wealth? Does he think the millions of wage-slaves, working away in Saudi Arabia, some of them at the bottom hideously mistreated, from the house slaves who include girls from southeast Asia whose duties encompass all kinds of activities, to the street-sweeping Pakistanis and Indians, to the South Korean building contractors, to the engineers and doctors and other professionals from Europe and America at what might appear to be the top, save for the contumely with which they are treated?
Everyone in the world knows that the Saudis do not work, have not worked, and will not work. A few go to the office for a few hours -- officially the work day for Saudis is about three hours, where they chatter and check on their investments and busily order non-Saudis about. And the same goes for the Emirates and Kuwait and the rest of these places. Every single expatriate who has endured, for the dough, these awful -- morally awful, socially awful -- places knows this, and comes away merely counting the banknotes as the only consolation.
The Administration should be figuring out evry possible way to diminish the oil wealth of the rich Arab and Muslim states. In so doing, it will necessarily have to tax oil and, especially, gasoline. It ought to have done so long ago, in 1973, in order then to recapture oligopolistic rents that otherwise were going to OPEC oil producers. The gasoline tax should have been imposed with great fanfare, and the government should have committed to a steady rise in that tax, ensuring to car manufacturers, and to those in charge of mass transit programs, that the price would never go down. A powerful Saudi lobby, consisting of all those who were sure, or at least pretended to be sure, that Saudi Arabia was our "ally" and would ensure "price moderation" (whatever that meant), helped prevent such an energy policy. The Western hirelings of Saudi Arabia have not only helped them to continue to fund, without being stopped, mosques and madrasas and campaigns of Da'wa all over the West, but have helped them to prevent an energy policy that might have headed off the environmental disasters, including the loss of 90% of the world's species, that is now certain to occur.
Though Saudi Arabia and the other undeservedly rich Arab and Muslim oil states have been the recipients of the largest transfer of wealth in human history, some ten trillion dollars since 1973 alone (and there was plenty in the decades before that), without having lifted a finger to deserve it, they have failed everywhere to create modern economies. Now they talk grandly of "economic cities" they will build. But what Saudis have learned, or will learn, how to work? The Muslim Arab tradition honors not work but rather wealth gathered through raiding parties, or from the Jizyah received from non-Muslims, or from trading. Nothing is made by the Saudis or other Arab oil sheikdoms and countries. Nothing is offered by way of services. They are rentier states. And what is still more maddening, they have somehow been allowed to get the Western world to pay for, to offer up a disguised Jizyah to, all of the oil-poor Arabs and Muslims. It is not Saudi Arabia that spent tens of billions on aid to Iraq, not Saudi Arabia that has given Egypt more than $60 billion in the last feww decades, or close to $030 billion (Selig Harrison's calculation) to Pakistan since the 9/11/2001 attacks. It is not Saudi Arabia butr the West that keeps piling money into th e pockets of the corrupt "Palestinian" Authority, billions of which disappeared when Arafat died (where did it go? does anyone care?), and that continues to go to Arafat's cronies, now performing their routine as mild-mannered and sober and eminently trustworhty accountants.
And within the Western world, the rates of criminality, and of living off of the dole, of taking maximum advantage of everything the welfare state of the Infidels offers -- of Muslim immigrants, as compared to any other group, is sky-high. It's not surprising. Infidels owe Muslims the Jizyah. And as Muslim clerics have noted, in those cases where the Jizyah cannot yet be demanded, it is the right of local Muslims to help themselves.
Hooper would like us not to notice all of this. He would like us not to notice how the Saudis, and the assorted sheiks of Araby in the Emirates and Kuwait and elsewhere, do nothing, save for that gaudy island of vulgarity, Dubai, which in fact is mostly the product not of Arabs but of Iranian money, and which, architecturally, and economically, represents nothing but a glossy collection of the most unappealing luxury apartments, in a place that is only superficially modern, but as the family of a fifteen-year-old French boy, M. Robert, raped by several local men, found out, underneath the glittering surface, the supposed modernity, the the primitive and vicious nature of the regime and the people, what one may call the real Dubai -- was revealed.
"Money can buy everything, except civilization." It is our duty to limit the sums available to the rich Arabs, to threaten -- or more than threaten -- to seize their assets in the West (what can they do in return? Stop selling oil?), and to insist that they stop spending money in our countries to spread Islam, in every way possible. We have ways. We just don't use them, because we have wrongly believed, without any analysis, that it is we who need them. Not at all. And finally, a full stop to all further transfers of Infidel wealth, beyond that required to pay for oil and gas --no more disguised Jizyah to Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, the "Palestinians" or any other Muslims. Let them go to Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Kuwait, Qatar, and ask for some handouts from their fellow Muslims, fellow members of the umma. Whether their requests are granted, or granted fully, hardly matters. The very sense, among the poor Arabs and Muslims, that the rich ones are not sharing, will cause all kinds of disruption, disgruntelement, and strife within the Camp of Islam. And that internal weakening of the Camp of Islam is, or should be, the main goal of the Infidels from here on out. No boots on the ground necessary. Just preventing (from the air) any further acquisitions of major weaponry, and a steady steely determination to reverse the Muslim presence and therefore Muslim menace in the West, and an equally relentless determination to exploit whatever pre-existing fissures exist within the Camp of Islam. It will all be much less expensive, and much less wearying, and much more effective, than what, so far, has been the incoherent response of the American and other Western governments.
Posted by: Hugh at November 6, 2007 9:33 AM
"I'd bet W & Rummy are laughing their @$$es off right about now at the press...and this was all calcualted (and age-old practice, in politicalspeak: "feeding the jackals")...it has the pattern of a colossal chess game...and the playing board is the planet.
Absolutely Brilliant!"
Somehow I doubt it....I don't see how Bush calling to win the hearts and minds of the lovable muslims, and minimizing Rumsfelds statements as if they aren't true, when in deed they are true is a laughing matter at all.
I think the one's laughing are teh Saudis, and why wouldn't they? They're spreading hte ideology that US is at war with, while the US tries to win their hearts and minds.
I don't see anything worth laughing about to be honest.
Posted by: Sneakyzionistcrusader at November 6, 2007 9:41 AM
If we would just get an alternative energy Manhattan Project going, we could then tell them to eat their crude.
I hear it's great over sheeps' eyeballs and hummus.
Posted by: profitsbeard at November 6, 2007 9:45 AM
The "unemployed Saudi problem" is no secret here in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis openly admit that it's a problem. And I. Cooper probably couldn't get more than a Hajj visa. From a Saudi viewpoint, he has no marketable skills.
Saudization (that's what the national program to reduce Saudi unemployment is called) has two problems: Saudi business owners prefer to hire foreign labor. It's cheaper and much more productive than hiring Saudis. The second problem is that young Saudis are, generally speaking, ill prepared by education, trainig, and mindset, for employment.
Currrently, there are about 24 million people in Saudi Arabia, about 16 million citizens and eight million guest workers. Most of that are laborers, drivers, maids doing things that the Saudis won't do. Some are skilled tradesmen - carpenters, masons, mechanics, doing things the Saudis do not want to do. A few, probably not more than 2%, are doing things that the Saudis cannot do.
Saudis visiting the U.S. are amazed at how well we pay sanitation workers.
In short, Cooper either does not have a clue, or he is hoping we don't.
Posted by: jay at November 6, 2007 9:55 AM
You can never say anything "negative" about Islam or it's followers!
How in the world did that happen? How in the world has this bs happened after 9/11?
Frank - your insight?
Posted by: darcy at November 6, 2007 10:00 AM
The truth hurts. I don't want this government trying to win the hearts and minds across the Arab and Muslim worlds. I want them to fear us. If it wasn't for the one commodity that nature blindly blessed them with, they would have nothing and be nothing. It's been more than six years since 9/11 and the White House continues to bleat like a flock of sheep whenever any criticism or less than positive comment is made of the Saudis/Muslims, etc. Yeah, you're either with us or against us - too bad we (the govt) isn't sure just what they are for. We know what they are against - any criticism of the precious Saudis/Muslims. This would be funny if not for all the dead and maimed Americans of the last several years.
Posted by: HOV Dummy at November 6, 2007 10:02 AM
What would the Saudis do if all the foreign oil workers got up and left, citing the unfair treatment they receive in the land of Mohammed?
Then again, the Chinese would probably send in more than enough replacements.
As for those labor jobs that "Arabs won't work at", how come most become industrious little worker bees once they enter the US, doing the jobs Americans won't do (according to President Bush and others who preach "comprehensive immigration reform")?
RUMMY for PRESIDENT!!!!
at November 6, 2007 10:04 AM
I spent a year in Turkey and was always amazed by the number of men that seemed to have all day to walk around, or sit and chat, drink tea and smoke. How do they get anything done?
Another thing that was a culture shock for me was their intrusive nature. seemingly intentionally interrupting with whistling, yelling, horn honking, and physical gestures. Very loud at the market as apposed to the elevator music we hear in the mall.
at November 6, 2007 10:04 AM
Muhammad is the example.
Muslims are taught that they are superior, and that the riches of "kuffar" belong to them through Allah. Thus they do even consider taking something from a kuffar to be stealing.
Once they conquer, in any manner, a productive land, and finish sucking it dry, the country ends up being a black hole because no Muslim knows HOW to be productive, much less to actively BE productive.
Remember the president of Malaysia (name?) who said that Muslims must become more proficient in science? Why? To build better weapons to kill the unbelievers, NOT to better their own life.
Islam and Muslims must be pushed out of the West, and be forced to support themselves. The sooner we get off oil the better, because then they can drink it.
Posted by: Ethelred at November 6, 2007 10:07 AM
Get up and dance!
http://www.laughingatislam.com/imagessite/onlyinfidel/Its-In-The-Koran-Windows-Media.wmv
Posted by: RedTemplar at November 6, 2007 10:09 AM
If someone were to compile a list of all the things Muslims AREN'T, as stated by Ibrahim Hooper and CAIR, do you think there'd be anything left?
Posted by: desert dweller at November 6, 2007 10:10 AM
Donald Rumsfeld said
An unemployed population is easy to recruit to radicalism.
And so is an employed population. A literate population. A wealthy population. We have seen time and again it is the Muslim doctors and engineers in the West who are drawn to jihad.
Again, there is no causal link of poverty leading to "radicalism"; it is the adherence to Islamic doctrine that causes the general poverty and violent lawlessness in Islamic-majority nations, not the other way around. It is the fatalism that Allah will provide that destroys the entrepreneurial spirit. It is the strict dichotomy between True Believer and lowly kafir that destroys the concept of a united people. It is the reliance on violence to resolve disputes that leads to the lawlessness that we see in Islamic nations.
Posted by: special_guest at November 6, 2007 10:43 AM
I think it is long overdue that the American Government began to be held completely accountable as to why they are always supporting Darth Vader and his Waahabist army over there in Saudi Arabia.
Posted by: Mackie at November 6, 2007 11:01 AM
"We should make food and all western commodities as expensive to them as their oil is to us."
Damn straight!!
at November 6, 2007 11:18 AM
"win hearts and minds" - from the mouth of Dana Perino
For those of you who were born after about 1968, those four words came out of the Vietnam War.
That was a very disturbing and disillusioning thing to hear from the Bush Admin. This war, or whatever the name dujour is, is being lost and Bush does not have the sense to get in out of the rain.
Between 1962 and 1972, We did not win a single heart or mind that belonged to the common, ordinary Vietnamese. We tried to buy or rent a few, but that was only temporary.
If anyone uses the word "pacification," it's over, and I think I'll start a prayer rug retail business; a fourtune to be made.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 6, 2007 11:27 AM
Yes, that "hearts & minds" nonsense gives me the runs, too. It is clear that President Bush was not at the head of the class the day they taught the lessons of Viet Nam.
Posted by: Havoc at November 6, 2007 12:00 PM
America actually won the Viet Nam war. It was the MSM who lost the war. Same as in Iraq today. We never get to hear about the victories because CNN and the NY Times only publish stories to hurt President Bush. In case the Bush haters haven't noticed, the US military surge has reduced casulties over 70 percent.
Posted by: Lil Green Lizard at November 6, 2007 12:48 PM
Pelayo said
This war, or whatever the name dujour is, is being lost
We didn't lose when we overthrew Saddam, crushed the Iraqi Army, removed the Baathists from power, killed Saddam's sons, and gave the Iraqis a chance to vote.
We lost when we defined "victory" as "winning the hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people. We lost when we said we will not leave until the Sunnis and Shi'ites and Kurds all live in peace with one another, and the Iraqis live in peace with the Iranians. We lost when we tried to rebuild (or build) their infrastructure faster than they could dismantle it (for example the power lines that they keep tearing down and melting for the copper).
In Iraq as in Vietnam, the "loss" was due to the politicians in D.C., not the boots on the ground. [And no, I don't mean that the politicians should "get out of the way" and let the military win, I mean we should define "victory" in terms of what is best for ourselves. Fighting in Iraq to help the Saudis is not a good definition of "victory", no matter how long we stay there fighting].
Posted by: special_guest at November 6, 2007 1:02 PM
Is it just me, or does CAIR sound like the ACLU? They ALWAYS take the contrary, anti-American position, no matter what the issue.
Anyone know how the ACLU feels about all of this islamic "inner struggle"?
And can anyone tell me why so many innocent bystanders get hurt or killed when Jihad is actually an "inner" struggle? Collateral damage?
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at November 6, 2007 1:08 PM
Lil Green Lizard: As further confirmation of your point, Ralph Peters, retired Army officer and author of almost two dozen books, is on record saying that the greatest innovation of twentieth-century warfare is air power and the greatest innovation of twenty-first century warfare is the role the media can have in determining the outcome of a war. Since much of the Western media is pompous, shallow and viscerally anti-military this does not bode well for America and all of the West.
On a different note, if there is a more dysfunctional, self-pitying major people in all of history than the Arabs, I don't know who they are. Islam is chiefly responsible for this but there are endemic aspects to Arab culture stretching way back to even pre-Mohammedan times that account for this as well. The Arabs as a people, exceptions to be noted, are a mess and Arab intellectuals like Fuad Ajami and Wafi Sultan have, to their credit, publicly stated as much. The Arabs, like Islam, are a burden to the world.
Posted by: Wellington at November 6, 2007 1:11 PM
Whats the surprise it's always someone elses fault.No blame can be found with the perfect religion and it's people.
They have so much money and free time then start handing the house of saud the bill for fighting these "erronous muslims" and for housing the captured and failed "heroes."
All the work that is going on in saudi arabia ....dubai....it is estimated to be at about a trillion dollars for ten years i believe.How much of that work will be done by saudis? It is Western designers whom they call.
As for CAIR when does thier trial start????
Posted by: Dar al-harb at November 6, 2007 2:03 PM
The United States didn't become a dominant world power through entanglements with the Middle East. I often wish we would develop an alternate, cheaper energy source than oil, become the world's number one marketer of it, and let China, Russia, India, and Japan become bogged down with geo-political squabbles in the Middle East.
at November 6, 2007 2:10 PM
Everybody, I am not speaking about Iraq only; however, the total struggle against world jihad has been sidetracked by Iraq. When Saddam was captured the invasion should have been over.
I would not call the invasion of Iraq a war. It should be thought of as a campaign in the broader war against jihad. In that respect we can place Iraq alongside Pelelieu, Hurtgen Forest, and Aachen. (Three battles that could have and should have been avoided.)
We are trying to pacify the Iraqis and win their hearts and minds. When some general starts talking about the light at the end of the tunnel, you'll know we've lost.
From 1964 to 1968 we were fed a steady diet of glowing reports about success and pacified villages. February, 1968 was when the house fell down and exposed the lies. The parallels between Iraq and Vietnam are getting eerily similar. Now we have another country, Iran, playing China's Vietnam role.
A war cannot be won if the people do not believe in it.
Here is a sign that the people are losing support for the Invasion of Iraq: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_waivers
The Army is lowering its standards.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 6, 2007 2:11 PM
While I'm thankful that the days of the Bush administation are numbered, and in many ways W is the lamest of lame ducks, none of the dwarves waiting in the wings (from either party) seem to bode well for the Republic.
Posted by: MP at November 6, 2007 2:13 PM
oil billions have shielded Muslims “from the reality of the work, effort and investment that leads to wealth for the rest of the world. Too often Muslims are against physical labor
as a descendent of Bedouin Raiders that always had a slave to do all the work and the attitude that they are to good to soil there hands with hard work the entire cult of islam is based on the raving of a mad Mideastern raider that always kept slaves to do the dirty work and the desendents of this cult have not changed Muhammad is the example.
Muslims are taught that they are superior, and that the riches of "kuffar" belong to them through Allah. Thus they do even consider taking something from a kuffar to be stealing.
Once they conquer, in any manner, a productive land, and finish sucking it dry, the country ends up being a black hole because no Muslim knows HOW to be productive, much less to actively BE productive.
at November 6, 2007 2:19 PM
I wonder what the Islamists will have to do before they are no longer seen as the favored victim class. Obviously, murdering homosexuals, opppressing and objectifying women, and exploiting immigrants are not enough to knock them off their perch at the top of the liberal victimhood pyramid.
http://grizzlymountain.blogspot.com/
Posted by: GrizzlyMountain at November 6, 2007 2:20 PM
I'm less concerned about winning Iraqi hearts and minds than I am about protecting Western limbs and genitals.
The idea that these loafers are going to come into my country, take away my status as a productive woman and a member out in society so that I can sit home and babysit all the little grandmuslims is laughable.
It goes without saying that my freedom is very valuable to me. But besides that, why would I take marching orders from some fat, dumb and UNhappy Muslima who stays a Muslim because she is terrorized into doing so but also terrorizes her own daughters into doing so, thus continuing the vicious cycle? Why would I let her or Abdullah the Shirker plan my life for me? It will not be tolerated, not even for an instant. When I read what Hugh wrote above about the lazy, incompetent whiners who choose jihad because they can't or won't do anything else, it makes me spittin' bullets mad to think that they would EVER have a say in how me and mine live our lives.
You want to run my life? Impress me with your daring, with your courage, with your smarts and with your business acumen. I'll still fight you to the death but I'll have more respect for you during the battle. To think that I would be subordinated by people like Wilma and Wahulla Whiner is more than I would ever bear. We infidels have pride too, ya' know!
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 6, 2007 2:21 PM
During the Saving Kuwait invasion in '91 there was a story about some Kuwaiti women who were being shown how to operate a washing machine and a dryer. I felt so sorry for them, those poor deprived women!
The firestorm is only because Rumsfeld said it. The are shooting the messenger.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 6, 2007 2:22 PM
You can never say anything "negative" about Islam or it's followers!
How in the world did that happen? How in the world has this bs happened after 9/11?
Frank - your insight?
Posted by: darcy at November 6, 2007 10:00 AM
I just saw your question and will answer it off the top of my head, dear. I have not given it a lot of thought-but here goes.
I think the gas station flunkie fronts (Cair, e.g.) dared not say anything right after 911, but waited for politics as usual to come back so they could let loose Flying Imam style clowns. And so the Cair-style mob of clowns (led by Fibby Hooper types) piled out of the Volkswagen when traffic calmed down and as they ran across the highway they were embraced by the Leftist clowns and Jew-hater clowns piling out of their Volkswagen. It was the 1939 Nazi-Soviet pact all over again.
But the problem here is a deep PC in our culture that is based on two current Western supremacist assumptions (all cultures have such assumptions) that democracy and multiculturalism are superior in all cases. However, neither are self-evidently superior in every case. Neither are compatible with Islam (just look at Saudi-A-Totolitarian-Gas-Station).
We have to let go of these two supremacist assumptions and stop assuming we have a duty to "make the world safe for democracy" and also open our eyes and see that this culture (Islam) we are being asked to be "open" to (multiculturalism) is closed (not multicultural) and is essentially an Arab-racist-supremacist belief system that will attempt to pakistan-up any indigenous culture and get it bowing to the gas station-unless it is kept at arms-length.
The problem here is Western supremacist dogmas of multiculturalism and democracy as being self-evident and goods and ends in themselves in all cases. These dogmas have to be challenged (are being challenged at JW).
In the long term, Islam is looking more and more like cold bagels to average folks. That's why I thing Rudy Giuliani (surprisingly) is so strong in the polls. Folks connect to his personal understanding of the danger of Jihad. Times are changing and people are seeing through Fibrahim Hopper style bullshit. Folks like Fibby don't see that reality-yet.
at November 6, 2007 2:38 PM
Hugh wrote:
But what Saudis have learned, or will learn, how to work? The Muslim Arab tradition honors not work but rather wealth gathered through raiding parties, or from the Jizyah received from non-Muslims, or from trading. Nothing is made by the Saudis or other Arab oil sheikdoms and countries. Nothing is offered by way of services.
.............................
Great post, Hugh. Again, this is Islam revealing its Dark Ages roots. Post-Roman Europe was very much the same--petty war-lords and their thuggish "courtiers" living off the labor of despised serfs who lived in conditions barely better than slavery. The lords had absolute contempt for labor--and not just physical labor. Few were literate, and most used churchmen as scribes.
When the young louts sponging off the lord's table got too "restive" it was time for more raids with resulting distribution of booty. Many weaker states regularly paid "tribute", basically protection money, to their stronger, more bellicose neighbors. This is little different from the Jizya.
It was only with the slow rise of independent cities, craftsman guilds and renewed trade that Europe began to pull itself out of the Dark Ages. The "Muslim world" is still largely stuck in that way of seeing the world.
Abrog8 wrote:
I spent a year in Turkey and was always amazed by the number of men that seemed to have all day to walk around, or sit and chat, drink tea and smoke. How do they get anything done?
...........................
And remember, Turks--especially in the large cities--are amoung the most modern and Westernized of Muslims. I'm sure it is worse elsewhere.
More from Hugh:
Infidels owe Muslims the Jizyah. And as Muslim clerics have noted, in those cases where the Jizyah cannot yet be demanded, it is the right of local Muslims to help themselves.
............................
Right--like the situation of young muggers and thieves in Sweden, who feel they have an absolute right to assault and rob the indigenous population--after all, does that wealth not by right belong to Muslims?
There is little sense that non-Muslims have *created* that wealth, through developing ideas, trade, shear hard work. As far as they are concerned, an automobile or a cell-phone is little different from land or slaves.
from the article:
much more disheartening was the White House response, which had the air of an abused wife being afraid to bring up her husband’s drinking problem
...............................
This phrasing is striking. This is exactly what I felt after 9/11. The phrase "why do they hate us?" quickly devolved from any serious analysis of terrorism to nothing more than the hand-wringing of the terror victims. "Did we make them mad? Was it our policies? Did we deserve it?"
Ultimately, this is little different from the abused wife wondering if the beating was her fault because she nags too much, and couldn't keep the kids quiet, and burned the meatloaf one day last week.
Posted by: gravenimage at November 6, 2007 2:42 PM
Graven Image,
I'd say the real question is, why do we care if they hate us? Every time I go in to a store or restaurant and see the ugly and degrading head scarf, I absolutely boil inside knowing what that chick across the aisle has in store for me if hubby and his friends ever get the chance to take over my country. While I don't hate this woman, I sure don't have any good feelings for her. When she is in my presence I imagine this war of wills going on, she looking at me with the, "Someday, infidel" wishful thinking gaze and me with the, "If you only knew what I'm doing behind the scenes to thwart you, sweetheart" look. Right now, right here in America, there is a war of wills being played out in every supermarket, shoe store and coffee house across the nation.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 6, 2007 2:58 PM
Relax pelayo,
I understand your misgivings, but don't fall for poll-driven anything...
those "polls" won't ask THE question, especially to those listed as "the majority against the war".
That falls into two major groups, which the peaceniks are NOT the majority.
...one group are the anti-war, anti-anything-not-leftist
...the other group is against the war, NOT because we're there, but because we're not just going in and kicking their asses (aka, fighting a politically correct war)
if that were done, there'd be a very different outlook...but most of the polls are owned by leftists anyway...that's why it wasn't asked and they know it.
It's also why the MSM that touts their "facts & figures" that aren't are losing their @$$es in readership-the American populace knows it as I do.
At least now (though I hate doing it the hard way) things ARE coming full circle, despite the "all is lost" crowd who are now fighting amongst themselves, shooting themselves in the foot, leaving the rest of us to sit back and laugh at their own products-of-obsession as their own derangement syndrome became their own worst enemy.
W & Bush are very much close, and no doubt whatsoever both knew this..."feeding the jackals" is fun to do, especially when the jackals desperately deserve it.
They've become what they hate...
Rummy fed the jackals, W & he are laughing their asses off at the feeding frenzy.
(For Rumsfeld to give anything to WaPo who hates the ground he walked on is obvious bait...remember, same bunch thought Reagan was a dunce, only to be proven wrong in the end, too)
He tipped A hand-he did not tip THE hand.
Meanwhile, our boys know the REAL formula to winning hearts and minds as they have for centuries now:
"When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow".
works every time it's tried.
and as for the ever "illustrious" CAIR-kissup WaPo:
Never interfere with an enemy in the process of committing suicide-Napoleon.
at November 6, 2007 2:59 PM
jcom972, what is to me and should be to others is the apparent difficulty now with the Army and Marines attracting recruits.
I have a grand nephew (Military Police) now in Mosul, his mother and father are in edge. Mosul is relatively quiet but there were some attacks there yesterday.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 6, 2007 3:10 PM
There is a really funny article in the "Religious policeman" blog about work ethics in SA at
http://muttawa.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_archive.html
Scroll down to "The Work Ethic"
Posted by: Swissy at November 6, 2007 3:29 PM
Whoa, the venom in words of many ..., Isabella, Hugh.
The West "owns" the entire surface sphere of the Moon, or will someday own it to the extent where no Sharia Laws will ever exist to bother the future colonials there. There will never be a practicing Islamic as a passenger on the Space Shuttle. What other little tid bits can I think off the top of my head to humiliate the Islamic world?
Hugh, I've always said from telephones to typewriters, electric light bulbs, scissors, pens and crayons, bicycles, telephones, sewing machines, watches, sneakers, eyeglasses, automobiles, Intel computer chips, airplanes, Wankel and diesel and turbine engines, pianos and guitars, forklifts, bulldozers, basketballs, soccer balls ... have I left anything out? Nothing of worth comes from the mind of an Islamic male. Islam turns boys into economic and productive adult retards.
As for the Islamic female? Just compare anything they got to ..., everyone reading this please stand up from your chair right now, and please, give a warm round of applause and welcome our dear Mara.
Not only physically healthy Mara is, and will remain so, (idiotic Islamic scholars prescribe circumcision for all little girls as prevention for promiscuity) but what a psychologically healthy little girl we've got here! Mara has a charming precociousness that would be suppressed in these dinosauric cultures of any asinine Islamic based society, past or present.
And the ideal for a better world is to think and act in ways to have five hundred years from today the majority of little girls more on par "upstairs" similar to our prime example of the Best of the West, our Mara.
What the MSM requires is more writers and forums, platforms who and where one can heap humiliation to the people of Islam. The administration of Bush cannot publicly offend the Saudi's- we need their oil. Things may change in the future, but today we have to kiss up or else. Saudi leaders cannot punch their way out of a wet paper bag mentally, much less find solutions for all their social and political ills, and all their money makes them not even care to lift a finger of effort to change things. Half the political machinery in America, the Democratic party leaders and their consituents are intellectually feckless, mentally weak, and cannot be trusted for mobilizing into constructive action. From my industrial examples to our beloved Mara, at a grassroot level, we have to find a way to humiliate the common Islamic person into realizing that they are truly an inferior culture, and person, because of the teachings of the Quran. And that they'd better ketchup, or else the advances of the West only add and pile on more situations and things which bring humiliation to them. They have to change, not US.
Where are these platforms to reach the common Islamic person, and talk some sense into them? Fox News to sitcoms that portray a sober and tasteful contrast of Western ideals and values vis a vis with Islamic lunacy masquarading as normalcy?
And to this day I'm still preaching this message to the choir, and not throwing my best sardonic, caustic rhetorical wit and thoughts over their way. Ahhh!
Posted by: mergatroid at November 6, 2007 3:39 PM
Whoa, the venom in words of many ..., Isabella, Hugh.
The West "owns" the entire surface sphere of the Moon, or will someday own it to the extent where no Sharia Laws will ever exist to bother the future colonials there. There will never be a practicing Islamic as a passenger on the Space Shuttle. What other little tid bits can I think off the top of my head to humiliate the Islamic world?
Hugh, I've always said from telephones to typewriters, electric light bulbs, scissors, pens and crayons, bicycles, telephones, sewing machines, watches, sneakers, eyeglasses, automobiles, Intel computer chips, airplanes, Wankel and diesel and turbine engines, pianos and guitars, forklifts, bulldozers, basketballs, soccer balls ... have I left anything out? Nothing of worth comes from the mind of an Islamic male. Islam turns boys into economic and productive adult retards.
As for the Islamic female? Just compare anything they got to ..., everyone reading this please stand up from your chair right now, and please, give a warm round of applause and welcome our dear Mara.
Not only physically healthy Mara is, and will remain so, (idiotic Islamic scholars prescribe circumcision for all little girls as prevention for promiscuity) but what a psychologically healthy little girl we've got here! Mara has a charming precociousness that would be suppressed in these dinosauric cultures of any asinine Islamic based society, past or present.
And the ideal for a better world is to think and act in ways to have five hundred years from today the majority of little girls more on par "upstairs" similar to our prime example of the Best of the West, our Mara.
What the MSM requires is more writers and forums, platforms who and where one can heap humiliation to the people of Islam. The administration of Bush cannot publicly offend the Saudi's- we need their oil. Things may change in the future, but today we have to kiss up or else. Saudi leaders cannot punch their way out of a wet paper bag mentally, much less find solutions for all their social and political ills, and all their money makes them not even care to lift a finger of effort to change things. Half the political machinery in America, the Democratic party leaders and their consituents are intellectually feckless, mentally weak, and cannot be trusted for mobilizing into constructive action. From my industrial examples to our beloved Mara, at a grassroot level, we have to find a way to humiliate the common Islamic person into realizing that they are truly an inferior culture, and person, because of the teachings of the Quran. And that they'd better ketchup, or else the advances of the West only add and pile on more situations and things which bring humiliation to them. They have to change, not US.
Where are these platforms to reach the common Islamic person, and talk some sense into them? Fox News to sitcoms that portray a sober and tasteful contrast of Western ideals and values vis a vis with Islamic lunacy masquarading as normalcy?
And to this day I'm still preaching this message to the choir, and not throwing my best sardonic, caustic rhetorical wit and thoughts over their way. Ahhh!
Posted by: mergatroid at November 6, 2007 3:40 PM
Understandable pelayo,
but they're not having as much difficulty as the MSM has so tried to tout for the past 7 years (an ad nauseum claim they've repeated every year since, hoping it will catch on...only now has it gotten any traction at all, and only to scare off potentials, proving the goebbels claim true-telling a lie long enough & loud enough people start to believe it)
I've actually seen on drudge several times over the past several years, one article where the left says "we're losing recruits!", alongside another showing where the "quotas have been met" and more often than not, it's "and then some".
They're not being drafted, and the purpose for a military is, after all, to kill bad guys & trash their wares...not some social(ist) experimentation grounds, and college money bit is a secondary (so that doesn't fly either). If a member goes in for any other reason, they're in the wrong line of work. (I should know...when everyone else ran off, I volunteered...just as that pseudo-"peace" deal, which turned out to be anything BUT, was signed in paris).
The grand nephew is in good area, not saying it's safe, but it is a lot safer than some (that's the kurdish part & relatively pacified).
My brother runs "babysitter" duty between Anbar (which he & his peers killed or ran off alq en masse) & Diyala (adjacent to iran).
I compare what he tells me vs. the MSM...he tells me point blank:
"the MSM are g*dd*mned liars & it's about time someone called their lyin' @$$es on it!" He also adds the MSM "trollops don't even venture out of their hotels" to actually GET a story-they "just sit in the bar, get drunk, get laid", then "make something up based on GD heresay" (his words).
He won't lie to me-if it was THAT bad (as MSM loves to screed, he'd tell me, just as he did over the balkans & that haiti circus. He says the complete opposite of the MSM @ iraq, with passion, conviction, and confidence.
My advice is not to listen to the MSM chicken littles...the ones in the field know, the MSM does not.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=BF4338A6-172B-4ABE-B1B3-18C37E6573CC
As always, remember...war & a combat zone: it's never a bed of roses. But always scrutinize, especially considering the sources of *ahem* "news".
Posted by: jcom972 at November 6, 2007 4:14 PM
"The administration of Bush cannot publicly offend the Saudi's- we need their oil. Things may change in the future, but today we have to kiss up or else."
-- from a posting above
"Or else" what? They will have to sell their oil somewhere. Oil is fungible. Sold to buyer Y instead of buyer X, simply frees up whatever oil buyer Y had previously been buying, which is now available for buyer X to buy. That's it. There is no "or else."
The Saudis depend for everything -- health care and education for their ruling class, and a country that more or less works, thanks only to the army of wage-slaves they emply -- on non-Saudis and, in the main, non-Muslims. Furethermore, the Al-Saud think of the Americans as their final guarantee, the power that will keep them ruling in case of unrest, by Shi'a in al-Hasa, by Al Qaeda all over the kingdom, even perhaps by forces within the ruling elite who are fed up with the massive theft of national wealth. But they have been led to believe that they can count on the Americans no matter what. Let's end that notion once and for all, and in every meeting with the Saudis, no more pleasantries, but the roughest conceivable treatment. Oh, they will sell their bonds, you say? And if they do, what? If the price goes down for those bonds, they will be bought by others if the price makes sense. Furthermore, they have plenty of illiquid assets in America and elsewhere in the West -- some owned by front men, iincluding front men from the U.A.E., but assorted corporate veils can be pierced if there is a desire to do so.
The Saudis are not now, and never have, done the Americans any favors. It's all nonsense and lies, and repeated endlessly by people who assume they will never have to explain their assertions. Well, they now do. And Saudi Arabia can do nothing to us. There is no "or else."
Posted by: Hugh at November 6, 2007 4:25 PM
Oh, almost forgot...
your concern on the mortality rate...
when the show began, we estimated 7,500-10,000 casualties...compared that vs. the to-date" figure
(it speaks for itself)
It's also 10% of casualty rates of previous wars, save DS I, which had element of surprise (even at that, DS II had NO element of surprise, and STILL came in WAY below estimated casualty rates)
When you factor in the death rate by civilians here via murder-by-illegals at 5 times the iraq combat rate (this one puts it at 6:1)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103
(12/day in US by illegals vs. 2/day iraq. Yes, Mosul is actually safer than our own big cities, nuf sed)
it puts the fear factor in more proper context, and not in the chicken little mentality the MSM tries to scare the living pi$$ out of people over.
Don't let the MSM ideologues scare your relatives to death like that...it's what the MSM wants, and aims for.
Posted by: jcom972 at November 6, 2007 4:31 PM
Islam stole all of its early “greatness” from the Persians and Greeks …. This much is very well documented. The “greatness” was the ability of the Caliphate to assimilate new technologies and ideas. The big conundrum occurred when the reality of science and philosophy started to fly in the face of Islamic scripture. Who won the war of hearts and minds? Was it the rationalists, or the literalists? The hearts and minds were won by the literalists. Since then the Islamic world has squandered whatever advantages its early conquests made available to it. All that is left of its assimilative power is the conquest and subjugation of other people. Now this does not mean that the powers that be within Islam are stupid. They are cunning; in fact they know that the last and only shot at conquering the west is now within several generations. The big irony here is that the one thing that made our culture technologically superior was the prevailing of rationality in thought related to science, art, and philosophy, but also in some regards lead us away from the older wisdom of the Church. This lead to obvious lifestyle changes that has made us vulnerable to a conquest of this type, so what remains to be seen is, was the advantage gained by the triumph of reason which lead to the Renaissance, and the Industrial Revolution that gave us our technological superiority a short term advantage, or a long them disadvantage. Less than 600 years ago Islam had just conquered Constantinople. It was awash in wealth a technological advancement from its victories. Forces in the Islamic world remember this. They know and see well the wealth of a whole new civilization that is within their grasp. Now it is poised to do it all over again, but this time in Western Europe. The invasion phase is over, now the colonization phase has begun. Seems we are waking up in time, but what will we do about it? the rest is all a side show.
Posted by: ethoman at November 6, 2007 4:32 PM
Having lived in Saudi Arabia for 3 years, I can guarantee that what Rumsfeld said was accurate and spot on. They DON'T like physical work; they DO bring in foreigners to do much of the menial labor. I have been there, and I have seen it.
It is meaningless that CAIR is offended, and it is meaningless that the administration disavowed the comments. The truth remains, whether anyone agrees with it or not.
Posted by: j5050 at November 6, 2007 4:55 PM
Hugh, the Saudi's know how to cook a Western lobster. Though they couldn't mentally punch their way out of a wet paper bag.
And it's not the oil. Or the bonds, or anything other than that idiotic book that puts those asinine thoughts in their heads.
The jugular to all the problems in that region? That bogus Quran. The kooky thoughts in the heads of people, and the cause of all the contention from that region is because of that Quran.
Someone or something is going to come along someday and bring an end to the legitimacy of that book. Mark my words, that religion is in death throes,. We may see the fall of Islam and its demise within our lifetimes.
We in the West should try an all out effort with words to convince these bozo's that their dopey book of God is not a book of God, and the West is actually the Best, and second to none. If and when and wherever the first nuclear terroristic expression happens, at this time all talking will stop and brute force will change things over there. We still have a few years before this happens, to compare ours to their future, and with words not kill them in the process of convincing them.
Forget George W. and the King of SA, or anyone like this talking for solution. George to this day has no ideological warfront in action, and their actions in the past have proven they're incapable of a political solution. But at the grass root level, there should be platforms and forums set up for frank discussion. These platforms and forums do not exist between us and them, and we should really try to talk to those people, first.
Hugh, can you imagine five years from now sober, constructive dialog at a grassroot level has brought the people of Pakistan to embrace Musharrif and Bhutto, and the people are turning their nation in to another economic Hong Kong, or post WW-II Japan; the people of Saudi Arabia have revolted and thrown the Saudi ruling class into exile within the US, and the Saudi people have a democracy and are on their way to adopting Western ideals.
This is a goal, and if something similar to what I've described doesn't happen, brute force will do so ... probably sometime in the future.
I see those looming clouds coming over the horizon, too. Portents of war those clouds are perhaps, maybe not though, too.
At the grassroot level, someone should talk to all of them. No one is. The West is the Best. Islamic cultures raises boys into nonproductive, economically retarded adults, and there's nothing to be proud of in continuing that.
Posted by: mergatroid at November 6, 2007 5:33 PM
ethoman: You are correct about so-called Islamic achievements. They were mostly borrowed from others and to the extent that they were not, it was virtually always in spite of Islam, not because of it. Islam retards almost everything in life and it is deeply parasitical. But, as you pointed out, a parasite can be cunning. Unfortunately, not enough in the West know this. Western politicians are with few exceptions particularly clueless here, and as if the Islamic infestation (yes, I think this is as good a word as any)wasn't bad enough, it's coming precisely at the time when Westerners have less confidence about their own civilization than ever before, thanks to modern leftist thought which has given us the twin idiocies of poltical correctness and multiculturalism.
Posted by: Wellington at November 6, 2007 5:41 PM
jcom972, thanks for putting some numbers on this. I have been trying to tell my neice and her husband what you just posted, but in general terms without any data. His phone call two weeks ago helped them relax, but reportd attacks yesterday upped their anxiety level a little.
His first year after training was spent in Hawaii, so going to Iraq must have been a shock.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 6, 2007 5:41 PM
ethoman: You are correct about so-called Islamic achievements. They were mostly borrowed from others and to the extent that they were not, it was virtually always in spite of Islam, not because of it. Islam retards almost everything in life and it is deeply parasitical. But, as you pointed out, a parasite can be cunning. Unfortunately, not enough in the West know this. Western politicians are with few exceptions particularly clueless here, and as if the Islamic infestation (yes, I think this is as good a word as any)wasn't bad enough, it's coming precisely at the time when Westerners have less confidence about their own civilization than ever before, thanks to modern leftist thought which has given us the twin idiocies of political correctness and multiculturalism.
Posted by: Wellington at November 6, 2007 5:42 PM
ethoman: You are correct about so-called Islamic achievements. They were mostly borrowed from others and to the extent that they were not, it was virtually always in spite of Islam, not because of it. Islam retards almost everything in life and it is deeply parasitical. But, as you pointed out, a parasite can be cunning. Unfortunately, not enough in the West know this. Western politicians are with few exceptions particularly clueless here, and as if the Islamic infestation (yes, I think this is as good a word as any)wasn't bad enough, it's coming precisely at the time when Westerners have less confidence about their own civilization than ever before, thanks to modern leftist thought which has given us the twin idiocies of political correctness and multiculturalism.
Posted by: Wellington at November 6, 2007 5:42 PM
pelayo,
I can relate to where they're coming from-it's also why I won't blow smoke in their face either-risk is the nature of the beast...though I like to keep it in context that can be related to-it doesn't make the worry go away, but it makes it easier to deal with.
If it's any consolation, we have 1 son in the persian gulf right now so you can imagine how his mama worries too.
I doubt he was shocked at being sent, but I've no doubt he was surprised. MPs tend to get sent all over (after all, they cops of the military). My brother is battalion cdr of an armor unit so he knows about getting sent to God-knows-where.
If he was in Mosul, he was over 100mi away from the Samarra incident in Anbar.
Here's a good site to track incidents (I think I posted this before elsewhere but here it is again)
http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php
That should help.
If ya haven't found already, I'll also address the bad sides of things too...but I stress accuracy, even if it's not good (inaccurate and/or misleading stuff gets more people killed than anything the enemy does & causes more & unnecessary worry/stress than the same as well).
But all that is as accurate as you'll probably find anywhere. (i.e.= yes, W needs to stop pussyfooting around & either get down to business like we were designed to do, or get out as we don't have time for socializing with PC, especially in what we affectionately call 'stanland-at least now they're actually TRYING to- looks good so far, but by no means done. After all, I have a brother over there, too, as well as several friends still in)
Just ask...I may prove rather blunt, but it will be accurate. I figure people just want it straight up, no BS.
All the best to your grand-nephew.
Tell him one thing, if nothing else:
"Thou shalt never assume"
(4th rule of combat)
He'll know what I mean.
at November 6, 2007 6:21 PM
"At the grassroot level, someone should talk to all of them. No one is."
Please. Condi Rice is, and you can see how effective she's been at it. You might as well have lunch with a rattlesnake.
This is one of the points of Hugh's article. These people have no will and no motivation to do anything but achieve their goals that the Qu'ran says they will achieve. It has been written, and with their excessive cash, the excessive cash that they haven't worked for and haven't earned, they can throw their weight around a good deal and tell themselves that they are superior to the rest of us. That's what the big joke is, that they have a little clout because they've got the goods, but they haven't used one single brain cell to think about what kind of good they could do in this world with what they've got. Instead of Build, Help, Love, Give, it's all, Subject, Destroy, Force and Enslave. Just like the Japanese during WWII who thought that their emperor was divine and that they had a righteous mission to rape their way through China on their way to taking over the world, these ignats think that because they bend over five times a day and stick their butts in the air that they have some sort of morally superior entitlement to make everybody else on the planet miserable. I, for one, will not bow down to a third class, misogynistic donkey driver and his Hefty bag of trash, nor will I subject my culture, traditions and religious beliefs to their second rate pedophile prophet spewing or crushed-head demon god.
'Sorry if this is too venomous for you but I'm still a little cranky from reading Muslim Wife's post yesterday on JW, "Murder: non-Muslim: Haha. Muslim: du'a [prayer]." Someone needs to shut that bitch up with a well placed 2 X 4' to the head.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 6, 2007 6:31 PM
Uh oh
Isabella's pi$$ed off...
quick everyone...*DUCK!*
lol
(just kiddin')
at November 6, 2007 6:44 PM
Isabellathecrusader, just in case it gets deleted, I would copy and past it to a word processing program.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 6, 2007 6:47 PM
especially that 2x4...classic!
After all..."hell hath no fury..."
no wonder the durkanese males are so insecure about their manhood-they're afraid to find their women may have more balls than THEY do!
lol
at November 6, 2007 6:59 PM
Be afraid...be very afraid.
Yeah, but remember, I love you guys. ; )
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 6, 2007 7:10 PM
And Pelayo,
Thanks for that suggestion. It has been duly noted and accomplished. See, not all of us little Catholic girls just lie there and take it.
And JCom 972, there is nothing I find more repulsive or deserving of mockery than a Middle Eastern man who blames a woman because he can't keep his pants zipped. And when you think about how these guys take what they want because they are bigger and physically stronger than women and when they get caught at it they just lie and leave the woman to face her death, I think Middle Eastern Muslim men are the most cowardly little weasels on the planet.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 6, 2007 7:27 PM
lol...sad to say it's not indigenous to muslim men, as we have our share of them in our own culture-of course, here, they're called THUGs.
But you're right about the cowardly weasels bit-ya know it's beyond repulsive when even chauvanistic a$$e$ are reviled by this (I know of two who read this & were taken aback by it).
Sickening.
at November 6, 2007 8:01 PM
Yes, there are thugs here too, but they are the exception, not the norm. We American girls can handle an American thug, because there are lines that we all agree can't be crossed, for the most part. You normal guys would not put up with a thug hurting one of your own. You'd be packin' a 2 X 4' too, if one of those guys did something to your mom or your sister or your daughter. But ME Muslim guys, man, they are sick. They seem to celebrate someone else's torture and total humiliation. They seem to enjoy doing it more to their women than to any other men. And from the stories I've read here and other places, they almost seem to want their daughters and sisters to commit a transgression so they'll have a reason to utterly destroy them.
I can't stop thinking about that girl from London who's father and uncle paid some lowlife to murder her and he complained to his cell mate after he was arrested that he kept stomping on her neck but he just couldn't get the soul out. What the...?
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 6, 2007 8:47 PM
Truer words were never spoken. Too bad Bush still thinks it's possible to "win hearts and minds" in the islamic world and even more pathetic that he wants to. I loathe that expression, "hearts and minds", especially when applied to muslims. They have no hearts and most of their minds have been reduced to the rote, mechanical level of robots performing the functions for which they were programmed. Muslims are programmed to hate, lie, deceive, kill, and submit to an imaginary god and archaic dogma created by medieval tyrants. Who the hell cares what they think of us? They should be worried about what we think of them and from a personal perspective, I find them contemptible.
Saudis are lazy and they actually believe that they are too good to work. Many consider it beneath their dignity to use their hands for any type of work, even in medical, technological, or scientific fields. They think they are superior human beings, the master race. Stupid fools! I hope I'm still around when the oil is gone and they have nothing to show for the trillions in oil revenue but thousands of filthy Wahabbi mosques around the world, which by then will probably have been burnt to the ground by enraged citizens. The royals will have their hefty Western investments but what will the rest of the supercilious Saudi Arabs have besides their undying faith in a virulent, destructive creed?
Posted by: Susanp at November 6, 2007 11:16 PM
"And so the Cair-style mob of clowns (led by Fibby Hooper types) piled out of the Volkswagen when traffic calmed down and as they ran across the highway they were embraced by the Leftist clowns and Jew-hater clowns piling out of their Volkswagen" --posted by Frank, above
LOL! I can picture them with their frizzy wigs of multi-colored hair, droopy bloomers, big red nose, and boat-sized clod-hoppers all piling out of the VW!
That's them allright, Frank. You nailed 'em. They are nothing but clowns.
Posted by: darcy at November 7, 2007 9:25 AM
In the US cops have devices they place in cars that are likely to be stolen that make them stop running.
Anybody but me wonder why the F16's are being grounded? Which plane do the PAKI's have?
I can only hope the nuks are similarily equiped.
Rummy was so smart the Dimmi's had to get rid of him.
He was way more aware of what goes on in Islamic countries and I wish I could know more of what he had to say. Beyond what the urinal had to say.
at November 7, 2007 10:14 AM
Way to go Rummy! Tell'em like it is!
Posted by: HereticInfidel at November 7, 2007 10:21 AM
Isabellathecrusader, Condi and George should have set up platforms a long time ago which present The Best of the West to the common Islamic person. Think Radio Free Europe and the Voice of America for the Islamic crowd.
Set up an ideological warfront message that portrays life in the West as superior to the common Islamic way of life. With little or no Democratic Party influences and involvement which tends to degenerate people and societies and cultures, the West should organize a group who will broadcast our way of life through TV sitcoms and radio programs that are tailored to compare our daily walk in life with theirs.
Isabellathecrusader, ...? can I ask you a question? Can I just call you 'Ole BattleAxe, and save myself the typing of a few less keystrokes? I digress.
So many of these horrors of Islam we hear and read about, and happening in the West, they should be scripted into Soprano's- or Band of Brothers-like sitcoms. Carefully crafted, sober, as tastefully as possible write scripts to kick them in the balls two or three times a week.
These sitcoms and talk shows are targeted for the common Islamic person while they live and work in their dumb-dumb Sharia-lawed land, day after day.
If there were a number of these shows already scripted and filmed and recorded by the ideological warfront department of George W. and Condi, then let the world know these rattlesnacks refused to allow the presentation of these programs in their lands, if that be the case.
Hollywood and New York studios have vulnerable assets it probably does not want threatened, though our George and Condi could fill the role with their own studios to do this "mission."
The goal is to reach the common Islamic at the grassroot level, and to counter the radical thoughts, the madrasses. I believe we could win their hearts and minds, with words.
Condi: What steps have you taken to bring democratic reforms to the Saudi people?
Saudi: ...?
Condi: Have you stopped the television shows of hate for the West yet?
Saudi: ...?
Condi: Take a look at these videos. We'll be beaming them by satellite to your people.
Saudi: I've seen them already and I will not allow it to happen.
... I've run out of thoughts to express this idea further.
By the year 2007, there should've been some working, effective ideological warfront from this administration.
Why let this nonsense go unnoticed to their own people for another day?
Posted by: mergatroid at November 8, 2007 11:09 AM
We first have to purge the 5th column within for that to occur, as they will never allow it...
but they won't go quietly, especially when they have the unholy alliance, soros, the MSM, wakodemia, (REAL) traitorous elected officials trying to usurp foreign policy above their rank, et. al. backing them up (as they have their own overthrow agenda in mind, but got knocked on its ear 7 years ago)
In the mean time, just playin' the game, biding the time...until it CAN happen...but it WILL happen.
at November 9, 2007 5:23 AM
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