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Nothing really surprising here. When have we ever seen a Muslim leader in the West say, "Yes, we have a serious problem in our community, and it's up to us to clean it up"?
"Dr Bari: Government stoking Muslim tension," by Rachel Sylvester and Alice Thomson in the Telegraph (thanks to all who sent this in):
...Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, the leader of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), thinks the Government is stoking the tension."There is a disproportionate amount of discussion surrounding us," he says. "The air is thick with suspicion and unease. It is not good for the Muslim community, it is not good for society."
Here's an easy way to end the suspicion and unease: institute comprehensive programs in mosques and Islamic schools teaching against violent jihad and Islamic supremacism. Instead of focusing on "Islamophobia," as your "Islam Is Peace" campaign does, focus on what you must do to end violence committed in the name of Islam and supremacist statements of how Islam must and will dominate. Then "Islamophobia" -- and suspicion and unease about Muslims -- will vanish.
The 53-year-old special needs teacher has a gentle manner and a quiet voice - he describes himself as a "community spokesman" rather than a "religious leader" - but he does not mince his words.Britain must, he warns, beware of becoming like Nazi Germany.
"Every society has to be really careful so the situation doesn't lead us to a time when people's minds can be poisoned as they were in the 1930s. If your community is perceived in a very negative manner, and poll after poll says that we are alienated, then Muslims begin to feel very vulnerable. We are seen as creating problems, not as bringing anything and that is not good for any society."
Playing the Nazi card is a sure sign of intellectual demagoguery. Jews in Nazi Germany had not perpetrated anything like the July 7 bombings in London. They hadn't paraded around with placards warning that Britain would soon face a catastrophic terror attack, as Muslims in Britain did during the Muhammad cartoon controversy. They didn't say they wanted to see the government overthrown and replaced by religious rule, as several Muslims have in Britain. In short, they hadn't done anything: they really were victims. For Bari to compare Muslims in Britain, who have done little or nothing to root out the jihadists in their midst, to those Jews is a transparent attempt to claim a victim status that will deflect unwanted scrutiny and criticism, and demonize those who dare to suggest that Britain should defend itself against Islamization.
There is, in his view, no such thing as Islamic terrorism."Terrorists are terrorists, they may use religion but we shouldn't say Muslim terrorists, it stigmatises the whole community. We never called the IRA Catholic terrorists." Dr Bari thinks Jonathan Evans, the head of MI5, made the extremists' job easier by giving a bleak picture of the threat on the eve of the Queen's Speech.
The IRA could not and did not point to Christian Scripture to explain their actions. Their actions did not proceed in accord with the teachings of the Catholic Church. The jihadists do make extensive use of Islamic texts and teachings, and every school of Islamic jurisprudence teaches that Muslims must conquer unbelievers and subjugate them under the rule of Islamic law.
"I think it is creating a scare in the community and wider society. It probably helps some people who try to recruit the young to terrorism. Muslim young people are as vulnerable as any others. Under this climate of fear they will begin to feel victimised."...
That is, anti-terrorism causes terrorism. Don't resist, and everything will be fine.
Control orders and stop and search powers are further increasing the sense of alienation among Muslims, Dr Bari says, and the Metropolitan Police are not helping matters either."There was institutional racism and institutions as massive as the Met find it hard to change. They need more Muslim police officers. I'm not going to use the term trigger happy - sometimes the police can make mistakes - but they need to do their job in a better way."
What race are Muslims again?
Meanwhile, "I'm not going to use the term trigger happy" is more intellectual demagoguery: it's using the term while maintaining the appearance of not using it.
Sir Salman Rushdie should never have been knighted, he says. "He caused a huge amount of distress and discordance with his book, it should have been pulped."
There goes freedom of speech. Note: if you cause distress to Muslims, Bari believes you should not be allowed to speak. Such protection is accorded to no other group, but who cares?
Critics say the MCB - an umbrella organisation with 500 affiliates - has itself contributed to the growing sense of unease in Britain. The Government has cut funding to the council following claims that it had links with extremists. A Tory report this year accused it of promoting segregation.Dr Bari insists he is simply trying to unite disparate communities. "On the one hand we are accused of not engaging, being insular, and on the other hand of being too political. We can't win."
Sure you can. Cut the demagoguery, the finger-pointing, and the double talk. Take responsibility for jihadist sentiments among Muslims, and work honestly to end them. You'll be amazed at how many friends you would win if you did that.
The MCB was criticised for boycotting Holocaust Day but he says he did not mean to offend Jewish people: "It should be inclusive, commemorating all massacres."
He's a canny spin doctor: what he really means is that it should be transformed into a platform for accusing Israel of the atrocities created by the Pallywood propaganda machine.
According to a recent report by the Policy Exchange think-tank, the bookshop at the east London Mosque, which Dr Bari chairs, stocks extremist literature."The bookshops are independent businesses," he says. "We can't just go in and tell them what to sell … I will see what books they keep, if they have one book which looks like it is inciting hatred, do they have counter books on the same shelf?"
So let me get this straight: we can pulp Rushdie's book without a second thought, but we can't go into bookstores and tell them to stop stocking jihadist books.
He is more careful about who is allowed to preach in the mosque. "If I hear of a specific preacher who is inciting hatred I will ban him from preaching but I cannot disallow him from praying."
And if he prays like Samir Khan, what will happen then?
In Dr Bari's view, suicide bombers are victims as well as aggressors. "I deal with emotionally damaged children," he explains. "Children come to hate when they don't get enough care and love. They are probably bullied, it makes a young person angry and vulnerable."The extreme case could be suicide bombers, it is all they have … The people who become suicide bombers are really vulnerable."
Although he stresses there is no justification for suicide bombing - "killing innocent people is completely forbidden, Islam is very emphatic on that" - he says British foreign policy has driven Muslims into the arms of the extremists.
"Criminal people have used that as a weapon to encourage young people, those who don't have any anchor in themselves, [to become suicide bombers]. Iraq has been a disaster, the country has been destroyed for no reason, that had an impact on the Muslim psyche."
Who is innocent, Dr. Bari?
Meanwhile, by saying that "British foreign policy has driven Muslims into the arms of the extremists," Bari is suggesting that violence committed by Muslims in the name of Islam is a reaction to British and American foreign policy. Muslims, driven into a rage of frustration by the American and British actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, respond by blowing things up. American and British support for Israel, of course, helps fuel Muslim violence as well.
So what can Western governments do to make sure that something on the order of the July 7 bombing doesn’t happen again? Why, it’s simple. All they have to do is adjust their foreign policies. In other words, Bari is talking blackmail, implying: Do what we want, and we won’t blow you up.
His passion is to integrate Muslim and British cultures - he says integration must go both ways."Everybody can learn from everyone. Some of the Muslim principles can help social cohesion - family, marriage, raising children with boundaries, giving to the poor, not being too greedy."
British people could, in his view, benefit from arranged marriages. "I prefer to call them assisted marriages," he says.
[...]
"Alcohol is the worst drug long-term," he says, and adds that the Government should consider banning drinking in public places, as it has done with smoking.
[...]
Is stoning ever justified? "It depends what sort of stoning and what circumstances," he replies. "When our prophet talked about stoning for adultery he said there should be four [witnesses] - in realistic terms that's impossible. It's a metaphor for disapproval."
There should be more modesty too. "You shouldn't be revealing your body so much that it can be tempting to other people. I hope my daughter wouldn't wear a bikini but I also hope she wouldn't wear a burka."...
All right. So in your dream Britain, Dr. Bari, will the government regulate dress?
Name: Dr Muhammad Abdul BariAge: 52
Job: leader of the Muslim Council of Britain
Family: married with four children
Background: he grew up on a rice and jute farm in Bangladesh on the outskirts of Dhaka Career: trained as a pilot, before moving to Britain and switching to academia, PhD in physics King's College London, science teacher in Haringey, special needs educator for Tower Hamlets.
Favourite things about Britain: fish and chips, cheese, shirts and ties
Not, you'll notice, "intellectual freedom," "the rule of law," "the splendors of English literature and art," etc.
Posted by Robert at November 10, 2007 9:47 AM
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He's a double-talking snake. He's the leader of the Muslim Council of Britain? Well, that tells us a lot about that organization, doesn't it?
Posted by: Josephine![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 10, 2007 10:38 AM
This is off topic, but I have to know.
I keep forgetting what is the percentage of the "radical" population of the islamic world?
Is it 1%, 5%, or 10% of all muslims?
Whatever it is, than why does not the majority of the "PEACEFUL" muslims keep their violent brethren in check?
Could it be collusion?
Maybe Bob knows the percentage?
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 10, 2007 10:58 AM
There is a small counter argument that has been missing too long, perhaps someone could point out where i'm confused...
Our foreign policy is allegedly responsible for, and according to these people a justification for, blowing up 'innocent' people. (of course the fact us kafirs are not innocent makes the justification irrelevent)
I put it to you that British and American foreign policy has been ordered and carried out by a 'tiny minority of extremists'. I am not Tony Blair and I am not George Bush.
Dr Bari's justification of the targeting of the UK's 'peaceful majority' can only lead me to conclude that targeting any muslim i wish would be, Dr Bari can only agree, justified in the face of actions of a 'tiny minority of extremists' from the islumic camp...
Except of course, the fact that i dont is the difference between civilization and barbarism.
Grow up Bari...by about 1000 years.
Posted by: MrTommyAtkins at November 10, 2007 11:10 AM
Compairing these "Victim" muslims with the Jews is a bit much.
Remind me why al-hussieni the grand mufti of juresalem went to berlin to meet hitler in 1941, and the thousands of bosnian muslims in the 13th hansard SS islamic units.
see these websites
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/hanjar.html
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/106543
http://emperors-clothes.com/bosnia/svijet.htm
http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_collaboration.htm
Islamist hypocrites
Posted by: Johnny Boy at November 10, 2007 11:12 AM
Hungarian Crusader:
The figure most bandied around is 10 Pct. of the Islamic community as demonstrating radical behavior. However if one steps into Saudi Arabia I think that figure may go up considerably because of the overwhelming influence of Waahabism. The percentage of Muslim sympathizers to the jihadist is another thing. A poll recently showed that Osama Bin laden was more popular then Bhutto,and Musharaf put together in Pakistan, I think the poll showed as much as 51 pct. for Bin laden.
Posted by: Mackie at November 10, 2007 11:12 AM
tax evasion within the MCB
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at November 10, 2007 11:14 AM
Denial, meet a river in Egypt.
Posted by: Dumpling at November 10, 2007 11:24 AM
Dr. Bari:
"It is not good for the Muslim community, it is not good for society."
Let me fix that for you:
".........the Muslim community....is not good for society."
Posted by: JohnAdams at November 10, 2007 11:28 AM
"When our prophet talked about stoning for adultery he said there should be four [witnesses] - in realistic terms that's impossible."--Dr. Bari from article
The very same rule, (including the impossibility) applies to the rape victim. Isn't that a funny coincidence?
Dr. Bari has more moves than a sidewinder, and he's just as venomous.
Posted by: Abscedere at November 10, 2007 11:32 AM
In my view, Islam = phallus worship.
Posted by: Abscedere at November 10, 2007 11:35 AM
Dr. Bari's interview contains a lot of Muslim circular thinking and victimization. His true feelings are hiding, barely, under his order of fish and chips. Statements such as, "Suicide bombers are victims as well as aggressors," and "...justified stoning? It depends on what kind of stoning and the circumstances." He also called for more "Muslim principles" in family relationships. I notice that he omitted one of the main Islamic 'principles' to keep their females in line, honor killings. And, despite his whining about institutional 'racism,' he included in his bio his beginnings on a rice farm to his Ph.D. at King's College and subsequent professional jobs. Poor guy; I can feel his institutional pain and sufferings.
Posted by: maryrose at November 10, 2007 11:45 AM
Thanks to the multicultural and diversity engineers, we have (in the west) a condition that did not exist 20/30 years ago. Those who threw open the floodgates of immigration should be cursed with Allahs worse punishment. Now we have a semi invited, separate gov, that wants to take over and become primary.
This is like inviting a few homeless people over for dinner, and letting them stay long enough to get organized. Then they start telling you what to do in your own house, which has suddenly become theirs.
The only good thing about this is that more and more westerners/US people are becoming aware of it. How many people even 15 years ago heard that Islam is the religion of peace? Now most everyone has at least heard of jihad, Islam, Allah, Mohammad, some people have actually figured it out, like the posters here. Bari's words might go over well in Dearborn, but not here in 'We Got Your Number City'.
at November 10, 2007 11:47 AM
Islam teaches antisemitism or to hate Jews
Islam teaches to not be friends of people of the book, unbelievers,infidels and all non Muslims.
Islam teaches persecution of Muslims is worse than slaughter of non-believers...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." Sura 2:191-2:193
Islam teaches to cast terror- "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".Sura 3:151
and- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" Sura 8:12
And of course one of the Jihadists favorite Surahs that is being taught in Madrasses across the world that allows for the murder of unbelievers everywhere:
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Surah 9:29
But of course it is really the Muslims who are the victims of persecution in those violent Western countries such as Britain.
Folks! anyone interested in buying a bridge?? Dr. Bari is trying sell us one.
Posted by: Mackie at November 10, 2007 12:11 PM
After WWII virtually every mainsream Christian church had to come to terms with anti-Semitism, even though the evil of Naziism didn't come from Christianity. Islam needs to confront terrorism in the same way.
Posted by: Jerry M at November 10, 2007 12:52 PM
This authoritarian slug has some brass balls to come out and advocate stoning(murder), banning alcohol, press censorship and the abolition of free speech.
50 years ago a puke like this would have been vilified in the press and by society at large for expousing such line of totalitarian crap.
I just wish the intellectual elite here and in Europe would get their collective heads out of their asses and stop drinking from the poisoned well of post-modernism. Then they would see they've imported a implacable enemy into their midst.
at November 10, 2007 1:14 PM
Wonderful timing....I wonder whether he'll be laying a wreath at the Cenotaph tomorrow, Remembrance Sunday. I hope not.
Posted by: grobari at November 10, 2007 1:48 PM
Bari could be exhibit number one that no matter how well educated a Muslim might be, that Muslim can still be overwhelmingly poisoned by all the rubbish found in Islam. No other religion on earth produces miscreants like this Bari joker. If there is anything more putrid than Islam in its pure form, I'm not sure what it is.
Posted by: Wellington at November 10, 2007 1:57 PM
My response is here
Posted by: Don Singleton at November 10, 2007 1:58 PM
Robert--Your commentarys in this posting are excellent and right on target.
What an astonishing statement Dr. Bari makes--
"Britain must beware of becoming like Nazi Germany"
Thats the Islamo-nazi "pot" calling the Nazi kettle black.
Thats an age old Satanic inspired attack--accusing someone else of what you are actually doing.
A careful reading of the Bible shows that Jesus deals the final death blow to Satan and his current anti-semitic "surrogates" on the planet. A careful examination of the massive prophetic evidence in the Bible on this matter that spans many centuries indicates that, in my humble opinion of course, this event is in the not too distant future.
In light of all this, If this be true, it could be time for some serious spiritual inventory for them and us.
Posted by: guide inside at November 10, 2007 2:14 PM
His political arguments are just about as convincing as his wig.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/10/nterr110.xml
at November 10, 2007 2:29 PM
"The figure most bandied around is 10 Pct. of the Islamic community as demonstrating radical behavior."
-- from a posting above
A figure made up. Plucked from the air. No evidence for it at all, and no discussion of what constitutes "demonstrating radical behavior" (in the formulation above) or being an "extremist" or a "radical" or whatever it is you are supposed to be if you are not to be automatically counted as a "moderate" Muslim which, of course, is a Good Thing. This puzzles, because since being a Muslim is entirely inoffensive and fine, why would one wish Muslims to be "moderate" -- lukewarm, tepid, undemonstrative, mild, unobservant, lapsed -- in one's Islam. It makes no sense, or rather, the sense that it makes is as follows: we all pretend that Islam is a Good Thing but, in our phrasing, reveal that our views, and our fears, are quite otherwise. For we desperately want all Muslims to be "moderate" (lukewarm, tepid, undemonstrative, mild, unobservant, lapsed) in their Islam.
And we know why. But very few will admit it, even to themselves. They are still constrained by those mind-forged manacles of the age, the ones marked "Tolerance" and "Diversity" and "Everyone Wants the Same Thing."
Posted by: Hugh at November 10, 2007 2:38 PM
Well I have some to say, but I am afraid it wont be permitted here
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/11/uk-will-become-nazi-germany-if-its-not.html
Posted by: shiva at November 10, 2007 4:27 PM
“…and poll after poll says that we are alienated, then Muslims begin to feel very vulnerable.”
YES!! And sadly this is how it must be. But Islam is more peaceful when it is vulnerable.
There is a duality to Islam. Muhammad's career can be divided into two segments: the first in Mecca preaching repentance and charity but harassed and rejected by those around him. Later in Medina he became a powerful political and military leader. We see a ruthless, bloodthirsty commander who systematically conquered and killed those who opposed him, as Allah commands.**
It is my belief that Muslims behave also with this duality. When Muslims are weak and feel vulnerable, living under secular rule and in the minority, they are more tolerant and give more emphasis to the early Meccan Suras. When Muslims feel stronger they become more hateful and violent. As Allah commanded, they literally abrogate the earlier verses and place emphasis on the Jihad of the Medina Suras.
When the West does not respond forcefully to terrorism, Islamists become bolder and, Islam itself becomes more violent as emphasis is placed on the Medina verses. When the West responds forcefully driving back Islam, the Muslims start talking peace and tolerance again. I believe this is happening in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Subjugating Islam worldwide seems like a poor long-term policy. However, short of destroying Islam completely, this is what we will have to live with. Islam becomes more violent the more power it feels it has. So it is written by Allah. By not responding forcefully to terrorism in the 90’s, Muslim leadership see Islam gaining a position of strength where they can begin to subjugate the non-believers, or kill them. The Taliban gained power; Al Qaeda gained power and exported its violence.
** some phrases in this paragraph borrowed from Spencer’s “Islam 101”.
at November 10, 2007 4:53 PM
Does this guy hear himself?
"On the one hand we are accused of not engaging, being insular, and on the other hand of being too political. We can't win."
Same with the West. When we leave Islamic countries alone, we're selfish. (We haven't been helpful enough to Pakistanis after their earthquake, another reason they're being "driven" into the radical camp.) When we try to make things better, we're interfering. When we try to give all people the same freedom we have, we're wiping out other cultures. When we work with established governments, we're supporting dictators. When we try to eliminate those same dictatorships, we're unwelcome infidels in the land of Islam. We can't win. It's time we stopped playing their stupid game.
His passion is to integrate Muslim and British cultures - he says integration must go both ways.
"Everybody can learn from everyone. Some of the Muslim principles can help social cohesion - family, marriage, raising children with boundaries, giving to the poor, not being too greedy."
So why isn't the same the case in Muslim countries? Show me a Muslim-ruled country looking to learn from its non-Muslim subjects (they're subjects, not citizens).
What do you expect to learn from your Christian doormats?
"Alcohol is the worst drug long-term," he says, and adds that the Government should consider banning drinking in public places, as it has done with smoking.
Been there, done that. (At least in America) It didn't work.
Surely pork isn't far down the list. Being the anathema that it is to Islam, the smell of bacon must be eliminated from the atmosphere and the pig exterminated. After that, give us the list of foodstuffs to be eliminated from our diets and from store shelves. We need to plan.
Posted by: PMK at November 10, 2007 5:57 PM
He seems to have been dropped from the evening news bulletins. I have not seen any comments on the MSM web pages but I would guess the public reaction in Britain would be pretty hostile.
Posted by: Fred at November 10, 2007 5:59 PM
I really don’t give a toss what that sad little man thinks about our reaction to the continued conquest of Islam. He will meet me on the other side of the barricades or his beloved religion will self destruct, and I’ll meet him has he gets on the boat away from here.
I got a taxi and the guy was playing the Koran on his CD player. I asked him nicely if this was the bit about the Apes and Pigs. I can’t say he was happy and I got the script about translation but I really don’t care anymore. I’m past preaching and just about at the point where I’m resigned to my fate.
I won’t be leaving England even though nearly all of my family are, I’ve been asked by my mother to leave with her when she goes, but if I do then I’m no better than anyone else walking away because of our poor government. They won’t drive me out.
God bless England.
at November 10, 2007 6:26 PM
Britain must, he warns, beware of becoming like Nazi Germany.
so says Dr. Muhammad Abdul Bari in the article
I'm afraid it's already like Germany just before the Nazi seizure of power. i. e. in the late 20's and early 30's. The Moslems are the present-day British equivalent of the 30's German Nazis. They're not in power yet, but they're working on it. They're using the same tactics that the Nazis used: heavy propaganda, concentrating on a few big lies; abusive and violent street demonstrations against the government and majority culture; a paramilitary force at their disposal; intimidation of opponents to the point of beatings and murders; and the support of a large portion of the intelligentsia.
Yes, Britain is in danger of becoming like Nazi Germany. But it's the Moslems who are the Nazis; the government is like the dithering, ineffectual Weimar government.
Germany could have spared itself, and the world, a lot of grief if they had clamped down on the Nazis in the 20's; and Britain could spare itself a lot of grief if it clamped down of the Moslo-Nazis of the present.
at November 10, 2007 7:25 PM
This isn't the first time Bari has played the "Britain is like Nazi Germany" card.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/17/nislam17.xml
And to think, this creep will be laying a wreath at the Cenotaph tomorrow. What an insult to our war dead.
Posted by: Matamoros at November 10, 2007 10:05 PM
From Pez":His political arguments are just about as convincing as his wig."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/10/nterr110.xml
Oh har di har, Pez
Or perhaps "farmer's pig": as in "Cor blimey, look at that bloke wi' a farmer's pig on 'is head. Wot a wanker"
http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/english/alternatives/1324
Posted by: ewha1 at November 11, 2007 1:09 AM
This is classic. Regarding Mr Bari's comments which compare Brits to Nazi's couldn't be timed worse for him. Today, Sunday 11th November, is Remembrance Sunday, when Britain remembers the War dead, and what they fought and died for -- the defeat of Naziism in WWII.
Needless to say, Bari's comments are backfiring big-time. Read some of the comments in the UK's Sunday Express here (Front-page story today):-
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/24811/Muslim-brands-Britain-Nazi-
Also, check-out the front page:-
http://www.express.co.uk/ourpaper/view/2007-11-11
Posted by: Infidel419 at November 11, 2007 9:38 AM
infidel419
yes those posts from british people were refreshing lets hope this is hte majority of people taling and not the minority "neo fascist" kind as some on here will brand us. the kind of people that like to say "jew boy, paki, nig and puff" as one poster described us.
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at November 11, 2007 10:40 AM
"His passion is to integrate Muslim and British cultures - he says integration must go both ways."
What a silly idea, that the host nation should integrate with the immigrants.
at November 11, 2007 2:00 PM
"When our prophet talked about stoning for adultery he said there should be four [witnesses] - in realistic terms that's impossible. It's a metaphor for disapproval."
And yet Mohammad had women stoned.
at November 13, 2007 1:00 PM
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