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Escalation. "Rampaging Youths" Update. "77 police officers hurt in Paris riots," by Angela Charlton for the Associated Press:
VILLIERS-LE-BEL, France - Rampaging youths rioted for a second night in Paris' suburbs, firing at officers and ramming burning cars into buildings. At least 77 officers were injured, a senior police union official said Tuesday.
The overnight violence was more intense than during three weeks of rioting in 2005, said the official, Patrice Ribeiro. He said that "genuine urban guerillas with conventional weapons and hunting weapons" were among the rioters.
The riots were triggered by the deaths of two teens killed in a crash with a police patrol car on Sunday in Villiers-le-Bel, a blue-collar town in Paris' northern suburbs.
Residents claimed that officers left the crash scene without helping the teens, whose motorbike collided with the car. Officials cast doubt on the claim, but the internal police oversight agency was investigating.
Rioting first erupted in Villiers-le-Bel on Sunday night. It grew worse and spread Monday night to other towns north of Paris. Rioters hurled stones and petrol bombs at police, authorities said.
The use of firearms added a dangerous new dimension. Firearms are widespread in France, and police generally carry guns. Guns, though, were rarely used in the 2005 riots that spread to poor housing projects nationwide.
Police are facing "a situation that is far worse than that of 2005," said Ribeiro, national secretary of the Synergie officers union.
"Our colleagues will not allow themselves to be fired upon indefinitely without responding," he warned on RTL radio. "They will be placed in situations which will become untenable."
Posted by Marisol at November 27, 2007 8:04 AM
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If you go to http://news.google.com and search for Paris riot you get 1395 hits for this week. When I added "muslim" to the search terms, I only got 49 hits, none from major papers
Posted by: PapaBear![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 27, 2007 8:11 AM
"Our colleagues will not allow themselves to be fired upon indefinitely without responding,"
I would think after being shot at the first time would warrant a response.
at November 27, 2007 8:12 AM
PapaBear,
No surprise really. This is only going to get worse and sooner or later they are going to have to come to grips that they allowed insurgents immigrate and breed within their country.
Posted by: Elric66 at November 27, 2007 8:15 AM
I knew Sarkozy was too good to be true. Where the hell is the army?
Norwegian print and TV media haven't mentioned this at all so far. But then they usually ignore muslim riots whether they happen in Germany, Sweden or Belgium. How are things in the rest of the world? Is there any place left where people get accurate news from the mainstream media?
Posted by: LastNorwegian at November 27, 2007 8:22 AM
Is Paris burning?
Posted by: Shy Guy at November 27, 2007 8:24 AM
Weapons are not freely available in France, you have to be a member of a legit hunting club and there are certain categories of weapons that you are not allowed to have.
The police have intercepted lost of weapons being smuggled into these areas, and in quite frightening quantities to, now that they are using firearms I hope that the police will now declare martial law in those areas and deploy snipers to shoot those rioters carrying weapons. It has to be done, the government has no right to place its police in that position and expect thm to be shot at.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 27, 2007 8:25 AM
Perhaps they should give them a Muslim only enclave. Then they'd be happy.
at November 27, 2007 8:30 AM
Aaah, the beauty of social welfare programs that require Muslim immigration to support.
Posted by: awake at November 27, 2007 8:31 AM
Intifada!
Posted by: Cornelius at November 27, 2007 8:50 AM
"Rampaging Youths", indeed. Since this story is appearing here, I take it that the 'youths' are of the RoP. The article doesn't say. Hmm...
Posted by: Abscedere at November 27, 2007 8:51 AM
Just curious but are the Paris Police held to the same work week hour restrictions (30 hours?) as other employees? If so, this must be costing the city(ies) some serious money in overtime, etc. Are the local municipalities responsible for the cleanup costs or what? What kind of tax base can these cities have if a good portion of their citizens, their "youths" are unemployed and trashing everything.
Posted by: HOV Dummy at November 27, 2007 8:52 AM
LastNorwegian
The BBC are running it as "Youths from a suburb where many of the residents are of North African origin” I have not seen the “M” word so far.
Posted by: Fred at November 27, 2007 9:06 AM
Perhaps they should give them a Muslim only enclave. Then they'd be happy.
Posted by: Ian
They already have several Moslem-only areas. They're called Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, among others. And that's where they should all be sent.
at November 27, 2007 9:09 AM
They already have several Moslem-only areas. They're called Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, among others. And that's where they should all be sent.
Posted by: ebonystone at November 27, 2007 9:09 AM
Oh Yeah.
"Alienation from mainstream society" is used as one of the reasons for these riots. Simple fix: Just return to the many and varied regions above cited by "ebonystone" and you're good! Au Revoir!
at November 27, 2007 9:18 AM
Jihad!
France is at war!
Liberty, Equality and Fraternity are at war with Sharia "Law"!
The barricades are up, but the French are on the other side of them.
Where is Charles Martel? Where are his heirs?
La Marseillaise!
Let's go children of the fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us tyranny's
Bloody flag is raised! (repeat)
In the countryside, do you hear
The roaring of these fierce soldiers?
They come right to our arms
To slit the throats of our sons, our friends!
Refrain
Grab your weapons, citizens!
Form your batallions!
Let us march! Let us march!
May impure blood
Water our fields!
This horde of slaves, traitors, plotting kings,
What do they want?
For whom these vile shackles,
These long-prepared irons? (repeat)
Frenchmen, for us, oh! what an insult!
What emotions that must excite!
It is us that they dare to consider
Returning to ancient slavery!
What! These foreign troops
Would make laws in our home!
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would bring down our proud warriors! (repeat)
Good Lord! By chained hands
Our brows would bend beneath the yoke!
Vile despots would become
The masters of our fate!
Tremble, tyrants! and you, traitors,
The disgrace of all groups,
Tremble! Your parricidal plans
Will finally pay the price! (repeat)
Everyone is a soldier to fight you,
If they fall, our young heros,
France will make more,
Ready to battle you!
Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors,
Bear or hold back your blows!
Spare these sad victims,
Regretfully arming against us. (repeat)
But not these bloodthirsty despots,
But not these accomplices of Bouillé,
All of these animals who, without pity,
Tear their mother's breast to pieces!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Sacred love of France,
Lead, support our avenging arms!
Liberty, beloved Liberty,
Fight with your defenders! (repeat)
Under our flags, let victory
Hasten to your manly tones!
May your dying enemies
See your triumph and our glory!
Refrain
We will enter the pit
When our elders are no longer there;
There, we will find their dust
And the traces of their virtues. (repeat)
Much less eager to outlive them
Than to share their casket,
We will have the sublime pride
Of avenging them or following them!
Refrain
Posted by: tanstaafl at November 27, 2007 9:20 AM
It will happen here, sometime after a Democrat 'victory' in November '08 is my guess.
Everybody ready?
Posted by: undaunted at November 27, 2007 9:31 AM
France is a disaster, how is thier tourism industry doing I wonder?
Shame that the "problems" are in the outlining suburbs of the cities, they already have a strategic advantage, where they could lay siege to the Parisians and choke thier supply lines.
I am partly joking but it really looks bad in France.
Posted by: Arbreshe at November 27, 2007 9:33 AM
Maybe the French like this stuff.
Revolution rape beneadings and mayhem has been its hallmark since the French Revulsions with Diderot and Rousseau and the gangs of Paris.
And so grateful or so bitchy every time the West has had to come to its rescue.
And now the question of whether France will survive its socialists and its islamists.
Will this be the last time?
Posted by: dgene at November 27, 2007 9:34 AM
Firearms being used against police and other infidels may be the trigger of the inevitable civil war that is coming to France and other European countries, Australia, Canada, the US and all other nations that keep allowing mass Muslim immigration. Every one of these countries, unless trends are reversed immediately, will either become sharia states or will descend into messy civil war. That is the legacy of political correctness and multiculturalism in the West.
Posted by: Wimbledon Womble at November 27, 2007 9:34 AM
According to TF1:
82 police have been injured.
The Prime Minister and the Minister for the Interior have visited the scene and have announced a "stronger action plan" to pre-empt expected trouble tonight.
The Prime Minister described those who have been shooting at police as criminals [you think?!]. He has received advice from Sarkozy, who is in China but should be back Wednesday morning.
Four police have been wounded by shotgun pellets. A spokesman said that the use of hunting rifles by the rioters has "crossed the line" and that the police were being confronted by guerilla warfare.
Six towns have been affected by rioting.
See:
Posted by: watling at November 27, 2007 9:35 AM
The police casualties in these French riots have always been extraordinarily high and one sided. Am I the only one to notice this?
Their hands must be well tied against taking meaningful action.
Posted by: poetcomic1 at November 27, 2007 9:35 AM
But remember, this is not VIOLENCE, but merely an "expression of rage", so we must not be too hard on these misguided little boys.......
Posted by: n.a. palm at November 27, 2007 9:36 AM
Not a single word about the "youths" being Muslims in this account.
Not a single word about the "youths" being Muslims in the account in The Times, though there the names of the two boys riding the motor-bike --no longer described, as it was initially (was that initial account false?), as being stolen -- are at least given, and a careful reader will figure out who those "youths" are.
Not a single attempt to ask if just possibly the attitudes and atmospherics of Islam, which come from the texts and tenets of Islam, and which affect those who may never have attended a madrasa, may never have attended a mosque, but nonetheless know that they are "Muslims" (they've been told that, they are keenly aware of that), and so have a grievance against all those non-Muslims who thwart them, do not give them their due, do not treat them with the respect they deserve, and they have, as Muslims, every right to steal, to rape "les sales brigittes" who have it coming to them, anyway, don't they, because they are not good Muslim girls?
Of course the criminal behavior of a debased and hopeless underclass is hardly limited to Muslim boys in France. But those outbursts lacked an ideological justification systematic and durable enough to last, to keep on lasting. Islam provides a Total System, a way to understand and explain everything that happens, and above all, to offer up, forever, an Enemy: the Unbeliever, the Infidel, the Non-Muslim. It's very convenient. Islam's texts and tenets, its attitudes and atmospherics, are shared by hundreds of millions, and those within that world, the morally and intellectually advanced, who become the skeptics, the doubters, the Muslim-for-identification-purposes-only Muslims, and then, in some cases, become open apostates, but along the way are hounded and and made fearful and punished, so that almost all remain quiet, outwardly conforming to the requirements of totalitarian Islamic demands for loyalty and expressions of loyalty.
Islam provides that justification for the criminality of this particular underclass, criminality against Infidels and the Infidel nation-state, and its symbols of authority, the police, and its institutions, such as the municipal library (full of those hideous Infidel books, so unnecessary and so insulting for young Muslims to have to read or even know about), and so is not merely one more instance of the criminality of the semi-demented young to be found in various Western countries, particularly among those who are led to believe they can take out their grievances in any way they can. No, they can not.
In the case of Muslims, the grievances are not merely, or even mainly, those of "unemployment" and "discrimination" and so on -- both prominently mentioned in the full article above. Employed or unemployed, Muslims in France have, in opinion poll after poll (see "Muslims in Europe," ed. Bernard Lewis, 1990), shown worrisome attitudes toward Infidels. The hostility to non-Muslims, the believe in Islamic supremacism, is a permanent feature of Islam, inculcated by the texts, by the clerics, by everything in Islam, and also by the mere fact of being told one is a "Muslim" and therefore one has a duty to offer one's sole allegiance to the umma and Islam -- in other words, while mosques and madrasas may be sufficient to spread and maintain the hold of Islam, they are not always necessary. It is the mere fact of self-idnetification as a "Muslim" that can lead so many to think and behave in a way that, naively, Western elites think can be ended if only government-sponsored "good" mosques (presumably on the model of those sermons, or khutbas, that, when Kemalism was at its self-assured height, the Religious Affairs Ministry would write for delivery in Turkish mosques).
The self-assured hatred of, not all, but far too many, Muslims in Western Europe (where they have been treated far too leniently for far too long, with unendurable behavior being endured), their belief that they need not owe allegiance to the Infidel nation-state nor even show it the slightest respect, the belief that it is they, and their belief-system, that is superior to all else (for no one suggests otherwise, no one dares to point out that the political, economic, social, moral, and intellectual failures of the Muslim lands, the places that they or their parents or grandparents came from, are the result of Islam itself; no one dares to spell that out, and to keep pointing it out, until the Infidels realize it, and then the Muslims themselves will be forced, through the implacable self-assurance of the Infidels, to question Islam, for the link, between Islam and the failures of Islamic states, societies, and individuals, is, when presented properly, overwhelmingly convincing, impossible to refute).
The belief of many young Muslims that Infidels are inferior, that Infidel institutions are without value and the Infidel authorities can be disgegarded, attacked, even shot at at will, that it is great fun to destroy Infidel property, even greater fun to rape "les sales brigittes" -- those French girls who, of course, as loose Western women, have it coming to them, don't they? and then the belief, which the non-Muslim authorities in France have done nothing to discourage or disprove, that eventually France will be Muslim, as demography works inexorably in favor of a larger and larger Muslim presence, and in the meantime, long before that happens, they can behave as they wish, secure in the belief that the frightened or demoralized Infidels, whether it is the police, or French lyceens being assaulted and robbed and beaten by Muslims as they participate in a march (as happened two years ago), or merely some Frenchman who, for some reason, dares to yell at or stand up to some Muslim vandals, and for his pains is beaten to death.
It is this attitude by Muslims, young and in some cases not so young, that has to be destroyed, crushed, and it can only happen with methods, and attitudes, far different from those visible today.
Posted by: Hugh at November 27, 2007 9:40 AM
I remember the 2005 French riots well, seemed like they lasted forever. I started every one of my history classes will a daily update about how many cars were burned in France the night before.
We'll see how far the "youths" take this "expression of anger".
Posted by: Arbreshe at November 27, 2007 9:45 AM
taanstafl:
I hate to say it, but the era of Charles Martel is much different than the era of the Marseillaise. The later with all of its political and social repercussions have helped to create the current European environment.
Shy Guy:
That's a scary reference -- these "youths" are succeeding where the Nazis in 44' failed.
My only question for now regarding this issue is this: where is the reaction from the average Frenchman? I'm not convinced yet that they subscribe to the same worldview as most of their politicians and the EU political establishment.
at November 27, 2007 9:46 AM
I just heard a report about this on FNC. The on the scene reporter made sure that we understood that not all the rioters were moslem. The word moslem was brought up by the stateside reporter, but was met by an almost indignant answer.
Posted by: interestinconundrum at November 27, 2007 9:54 AM
I know the French have a paramilitary force that are supposed to deal with these sorts of things. Among other things, they are will trained in savate, so lethal force may not always be nesessary. What are they doing, sitting around twiddling their thumbs? If not them, then send in the Foreign Legion. At least of something goes wrong they can blame it on a bunch of foreigners.
Posted by: Balrog at November 27, 2007 9:55 AM
Time for the French to put on a major travelling production of classic Voltaire play:
"Mohammed- or Fanaticism".
Free tickets for all.
It may be their last chance to ever see it.
Posted by: profitsbeard at November 27, 2007 9:56 AM
This is war, and there's not point trying to wish it away. Sarkozy has to be as tough on this as when he was Interior Minister during the 2005 riots.
The police have to start shooting back - they can't wait until one of their number, or a firefighter or bystander, is killed. Those involved who can be deported should be - the rest should be jailed for a long time.
Longer term France needs to bulldoze the banlieues, and scatter what's left of these scum to all corners of that very large and sparsely populated country, so they can never again create their own autonamous ghettos. That will give the next generation of immigrant youths a better chance of assimilating, and if they don't at least they'll be easier to contain.
As for the BBC, if they won't acknowledge that the Muslim religion of ritual murderers is a factor in their crimes, they're hardly going to mention it with regards to rioters...
http://monkeytenniscentre.blogspot.com/2007/11/bbc-turks-who-killed-christians-are.html
at November 27, 2007 9:57 AM
I think Hughs excellent comment points out what they really are these youths, this is what all politicians in Europe will come to understand but only after a lot of infidel blood has been spilt.
I have tried to point out to many French that even if they are only marginal Muslims, they are still deeply infected by the hate filled ideology of Islam, which is made worse by their brutal criminality. And what is more their brutality places them at the top of the gangster tree, with Muslim Gangster rap also helping them, where they manipulate non-Muslim youths, and in and around all that are the Jihadists stirring them up further.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 27, 2007 9:58 AM
Six towns have been affected by rioting.-from watling's link
Only six towns? I suppose it's early in the game. The last youthful intifada lasted for weeks.
What with a mere 751 such 'multi-culti' zones (convienently listed on one long webpage) brimming with youthful energy - things are bound to get, how shall we say, 'restive'.
Posted by: miira at November 27, 2007 9:59 AM
Hugh, as usual, hits the nail on the head. And with the media in Europe and elsewhere afraid to even mention the Muslim character of the uprising, for it is an uprising, the scope and nature of the real problem remains hidden to the masses.
It's times like these that I'm grateful for Rober Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald and the folks at Jihad Watch. A light in the darkness of dhimmitude.
Posted by: Proud Infidel at November 27, 2007 10:09 AM
Such nice kids. I can't wait for them to arrive in my neighborhood one day.
Posted by: Foehammer at November 27, 2007 10:09 AM
Read the comments section of
http://monkeytenniscentre.blogspot.com/2007/11/bbc-turks-who-killed-christians-are.html
Just sickening.
at November 27, 2007 10:14 AM
I could swear that the French already have a word in their vocabulary to deal with these Muslim youths...fix BAYONETS.
Posted by: AmericanTiger at November 27, 2007 10:17 AM
When will the French?
1. Immediately declare martial law.
2. Suspend civil liberties.
3. Assign the regular army, territorial army, and Foreign Legion to crush this jihadist action.
4. Blockade ALL muslim-majority areas.
5. Impose an immediate media blackout
6. Immediately deport ALL muslims to any nation of their choosing as long it is outside continental Europe.
I figure the govt will endorse and use all these measures when it is the politicians homes, families,neighborhoods, and cars being burned.
The people need to push their useless leaders to these options today.
There is no other way to live peacefully in Europe or anywhere else, but to physicall remove muslims and to outlaw islam as a political cult focused only on overthrow of all non-islamic cultures.
War has been declared and too many people are refusing to defend themselves.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 10:18 AM
Interesting Conumndrum -
regarding the Christians killed by Muslim Turks...thank you for the link...another reminder of why Vlad Tepes impaled thousands of these monsters:
Tilman was stabbed 156 times, Necati 99 times and Ugur's stabs were too numerous to count. They were disemboweled, and their intestines sliced up in front of their eyes. They were emasculated and watched as those body parts were destroyed. Fingers were chopped off, their noses and mouths and anuses were sliced open. Possibly the worst part was watching as their brothers were likewise tortured. Finally, their throats were sliced from ear to ear, heads practically decapitated.
I beleive we must start bayoneting all combatants and killers...before they are burned alive by raging mobs of westerners bent on vengeance.
Posted by: AmericanTiger at November 27, 2007 10:29 AM
Just trying to stir up some French nationalism sentiment!
It was the French national anthem - it may have it's flaws, but it is easier to sing than ours. (yes, it does sound better in French)
I'd like to think that Charles Martel's defense of Tours was the start of the French nation (and European nationalism).
Posted by: tanstaafl at November 27, 2007 10:46 AM
The Eurocrats and mainstream politicians have been lying to the French, and to the other Europeans, for a couple of decades now. I'm wondering how many more rampages of arson and destruction there will have to be before the Europeans catch on. So far, all I see in the various articles are comments that not enough has been done to alleviate the "unemployment and alienation" of the "youths" in these suburbs.
But wait a minute. The whole reason for bringing large numbers of Moslem immigrants to Europe in the first place was that the falling birth-rates of the native Europeans meant that there would be a shortage of workers -- immigrants were needed to fill all these jobs. But apparently this job-shortage never existed since there are now millions of immigrants unemployed and on the dole. Immigrant workers were supposed to be to support the welfare-state; instead they have become its chief beneficiaries.
It's high time that the French, and other Europeans, told them that it's over, that they've had a few good decades on the gravy-train, but now it's time to get out. I'd love to see France to be the one to start the process, but it could just as well begin in any other European country. And if the EU tries to say they can't, well, then there's secession.
It's not too late, Europe, if you'd only realize it.
at November 27, 2007 10:49 AM
It's France. They won't fight back...100% PC BS.
Posted by: jindle86 at November 27, 2007 10:51 AM
"The overnight violence was more intense than during three weeks of rioting in 2005, said the official, Patrice Ribeiro."
Patrice is a French name, but Ribeiro is not - it is a Portuguese surname. There are millions of Portuguese living in France. In Portugal we even say that the third largest "Portuguese" city is Paris, because of the hundreds of thousands of Portuguese immigrants that live in Paris and in its suburbs.
These suburbs are not like the American suburbs, with their wooden houses, gardens, parking spaces, etc. The European suburbs, are in most cases, ugly housing projects whose sole aim was to provide a roof to the millions that work in the major cities, but that do not live there.
The early waves of Portuguese immigrants in France faced horrible conditions. We sometimes call OUR suburbs "bidonville", which is an obvious gallicism. "Bidon" is a plastic container, pretty much the equivalent of a jerrycan. The first waves of immigrants lived in shanty towns built from plastic and zinc plates, many had no shoes, and I remember one immigrant who told that he got his first pair of jeans by the time he was 15. Imagine that!!!
The Portuguese also faced racism (and the French chauvinism can easily be turned into racist behaviour), discrimination on account of their darker skin colour or culture, etc.
Thirty years later, the Portuguese colony in France is an example of successful integration. Not because the French did anything special or diferent with the Portuguese community. Because the Portuguese that moved to France, moved with a specific intent: to improve their life, and to integrate. That is why you get people like "Patrice Ribeiro" (instead of Patricio Ribeiro) or French soccer team player "Robert Pires" (instead of Roberto Pires). Most of these second generation immigrants can barely speak Portuguese, but I can assure you that their French accent is perfect. Every summer they return to Portugal, eat some bbq sardines and for a few months they ARE Portuguese, but for the rest of the year they are French. And that is what INTEGRATION is all about.
These "youths" (Magrebines) had it much easier, and yet they burn and riot. They are not integrated and will never be. North Africans haven't been "European" since the Roman Empire fell. Why should they integrate, when they live in ethnic enclaves? Multiculturalism is a failure.
When in Rome be a Roman. This was true 2000 years ago, just as it is true today.
Posted by: cruzado at November 27, 2007 10:53 AM
The worker shortage was a lie from day 1.
It was just an excuse by the EU to culturally destroy Europe from within.
Europe always had plenty of workers and it is the political elite who has committed the worst crime against their own citizens. We can still plenty of ethnic Europeans who dont have jobs due to the unhealthy economic climate.
Muslims dont come to the west for work, they come for healthcare, housing, and welfare checks that they would never see in an islamic country.
Its all about the money, freedom, and benefits.
Islam is raging unchecked as cancer and when will there be treatment?
Anyone for chemotherapy?
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 10:56 AM
«When will the French [...] [a]ssign the regular army?»
Never.
Too large a proportion of French soldiers are Muslims, who will never harm their fellow Muslims. Disobedience would be the rule, leading to a total disintegration of the army.
Besides, it's problematic to use military force (which exists to defend against foreign invasion) against the country's own citizens.
Face it: France is finished, the question is how rapid and how violent the transition to sharia will be.
at November 27, 2007 11:04 AM
It will happen here, sometime after a Democrat 'victory' in November '08 is my guess.
Everybody ready?
Posted by: undaunted
How can there be a Democrat victory when this Democratic Congress has the lowest approval rating in US history? Rudy will win the Presidency in '08, and the GOP will take back some of the seats they lost in '06. Hitlery's dyke personality isn't going to help them any either.
Posted by: Bonniea at November 27, 2007 11:11 AM
I dont believe France is deat quite yet.
The highest estimate is over 10% of the army is composed of muslim terrorists....is there any other kind?
Another issue is I dont believe ethnic French troops will have issues or guilt of shooting down muslim rioters in the streets burning France bit by bit to the ground.
Muslim immigrants ARE a foreign, occupying army wrecking France so many elements of the army and Legion would be happy to provide help to clean out the nation.
The French are smarter than many believe, they just have to show political will and be provoked to an overwhelming level.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 11:16 AM
There is not much difference between Demo and Republican, but the Republican will get my vote. The appointment of Supreme Court justices is the only thing that matters, although we have been shafted there occasionally too.
The fight against islam will continue to be like the Mad TV skit....you know the one where the big guy blusters, then hits like a wimp.
at November 27, 2007 11:18 AM
Are all French politicians the heirs of Pierre Laval or what?
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at November 27, 2007 11:27 AM
Cruzado,
Excellent post! Not only were the Portugese effectively assimilated into French society but also Vietnamese, Christian Lebanese, Christian Black Africans like the famous tennis player (I forget her name), and hundreds of thousands more. They did not moan and certainly did not riot over French "racism" but successfully became French without any affirmative action or special government programs.
Special treatment to integrate minorities always has the opposite effect. If France wants to succesfully integrate these North Africans, they would end all welfare payments, require them to attend French-only schools, and make acceptance of Christianity, French language and culture a prerequisite for citizenship. This is the only way they'll ever be integrated into European society. If they refuse to accept these conditions, deport them.
Posted by: Provoslavni at November 27, 2007 11:33 AM
They already have several Moslem-only areas. They're called Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh, among others. And that's where they should all be sent.
You forgot Malmo.
The French are smarter than many believe, they just have to show political will and be provoked to an overwhelming level.
They need to take the country back from the clutches of the French intellectuals, especially the ex-university professor crowd.
Not a single word about the "youths" being Muslims in this account.
That's cuz Moslems are exempt from the law. As in welfare fraud here in the States. As in polygamy here in the States. As in concealing the nature of the crime for the Moslem in Seattle, the other Moslem in San Francisco, or the recent Moslem convert at the Kansas-Sooners. As in the...
Whoo, that's tiring.
at November 27, 2007 11:37 AM
«I dont believe France is deat quite yet.»
Well, consider this analysis in the New York Sun two years ago:
"There are about 60 million inhabitants in continental France, plus 2 million citizens in the overseas territories (essentially the French West Indies and La Reunion island in the Indian Ocean). About 20 million, most of them white and Christian, are over 50
Out of the remaining 40 million or so, 10 million or so belong to the ethnic minorities: Muslim North Africans, Muslim Turks or Near Easterners, Muslim Black Africans, Christian West Indian, African or Reunionese blacks. When one regards to the youngest age brackets, the proportion is even larger. It is estimated that 35% of all French inhabitants under 20, and 50% of all inhabitants in the major urban centers, belong to the ethnic minorities. Islam alone may claim respectively 30% and 45%. Since war is essentially the business of youths, the combatant ratio in any ethnic war may thus be one to one".
If only 10% of the soldiers are Muslims, a figure I believe is too low considering the above statistics and the fact that armies traditionally employ many young men from the lower classes to which most Muslims undoubtedly belong, we must hope that the remaining 90% control heavy weapons and ammunition. Even in that case it would be messy, as the Muslim fighters would be less reluctant to sacrifice their own lives (if you're killed combating for your faith, paradise is guaranteed). Frankly I cannot see old France boosting its morale sufficiently in time to avoid a disastrous guerilla war (Lebanese style), but how I should love to be wrong on that matter...
at November 27, 2007 11:50 AM
otranto,
I think your figures look about right from what I understand, its difficult to work out because France never asks what religion people follow in their census.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 27, 2007 11:54 AM
Longer term France needs to bulldoze the banlieues, and scatter what's left of these scum to all corners of that very large and sparsely populated country, so they can never again create their own autonamous ghettos. That will give the next generation of immigrant youths a better chance of assimilating, and if they don't at least they'll be easier to contain
I don't think the answer is to Islam is more Islam. And the notion of actually assisting the muslims in spreading to every corner of France is crazy. And just the mention of a next generation of muslim immigrants is insanity.
Deportation. You have to get rid of muslims if you want to get rid of islam. It is so stupidly simple and we all dance around the answer as if it is wrong.
at November 27, 2007 12:32 PM
the news media are not saying these are "muslim riots" because they quite simply aren't. these are ethnic riots. north africans/sub-saharan africans vs. ethnic french. islam is nothing to do with it; how can you seriously think these guys are hardline muslim extremists, motivated by a jihadist ideology? they're not and there is nothing to suggest that they are; they're simlpy impoverished, ethnically discriminated against street thugs, as can be found in cities from los angeles to london to rome. the fact that most of the people come from muslim-majority countries, and that a slightly smaller number of the people rioting probably come from muslim family backgrounds, is neither here nor there.
and for the complete idiot who mentioned malmo earlier; i am an ethnic serb raised christian who spent the first 19 years of his life in the rosengard district of malmo and was treated considerably better by the "muslim" residents of rosengard than i was by the ethnic swedes who lived outside it, who got uneasy whenever they discovered i had a serbian name. so kindly shove it.
Posted by: elbowsunique at November 27, 2007 12:34 PM
Anyone for an outrageous scenario?
Here goes: The French start cracking down on the misunderstood youths. French Anglo-civilians start cracking heads and shooting back. The violence escalates even more. Algeria and Morrocco begin complaining to the UN over the "mistreatment" of their fellow youths, and demand to be allowed in to protect those poor ole misundrstood victims of Youthophobia. A UN resolution calls for a peacekeeping mission. France ceases to exist.
Far fetched?
Posted by: Pelayo at November 27, 2007 12:41 PM
So the moslem rioters are now using conventional weapons and hunting weapons
This is going beyond rioting, this is edging towards war, do the moslems want another taste of
la juste colère—(the just anger—of the police).
Here is a reminder
Terrorist attacks in Paris and other French cities had claimed dozens of lives of police, provoking what Interior Minister Roger Frey called la juste colère—the just anger—of the police. They vented that anger on the evening of Oct. 17. About 30,000 Muslims—from among some 200,000 Algerians, ostensibly French citizens, living in and around Paris—descended upon the boulevards of central Paris from three different directions. The demonstration of men, women and children was called by the FLN to protest an 8:30 p.m. curfew imposed only on Muslims.
The demonstrators were met by about 7,000 police and members of special Republican Security companies, armed with heavy truncheons or guns. They let loose on the demonstrators in, among other places, Saint Germain-des-Prés, the Opéra, the Place de la Concorde, the Champs Elysée, around the Place de l’Ätoile and, on the edges of the city, at the Rond Point de la Defense beyond Neuilly.
My news agency friend counted at least 30 corpses of demonstrators in several piles outside his office near the city center, into which he had pulled some Algerians to get them away from rampaging police. Another correspondent reported seeing police backing unarmed Algerians into corners on sidestreets and clubbing them at will. Later eyewitness reports recounted stranglings by police and the drowning of Algerians in the Seine, from which bodies would be recovered downstream for weeks to come.
Thousands of Algerians were rounded up and brought to detention centers, where the violence against them continued. “Drowning by Bullets,” a British TV documentary aired about four years ago, alleges that scores of Algerians were murdered in full view of police brass in the courtyard of the central police headquarters.
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/11/fucking-disgraceful-reporting-from.html
at November 27, 2007 12:43 PM
The latest report from TF1 quotes police spokesman Patrice Ribeiro as saying:
"In contrast to what happened in 2005, the authorities this time are united in their resolve to act quickly and firmly to end this situation."
But another police official, David Barbas, added:
"Our men on the front line are faced by well-organised youths who are mobile and ready for anything. It's on a knife edge out there and we feel that [the youths] want to kill a policeman. These riots happened much more quickly than in 2005. The youths are ready and just waiting for any excuse to wreak havoc."
The report adds:
Another difference compared to the riots of 2005 is that this time the youths are much better armed.
See:
http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/france/faits-divers/0,,3635849,00-inquietude-policiers-approche-nuit-.html
Posted by: watling at November 27, 2007 1:02 PM
Viva la difference!
Posted by: TheOmegaMan at November 27, 2007 1:12 PM
I wonder what would happen if France drastically curtailed Muslim immigration and imposed China's one child policy on anyone receiving welfare.
Posted by: justask at November 27, 2007 1:21 PM
These muhammadite thugs need to be put down for good, now is the prime opportunity. The days of kissing Muslim's backsides needs to come to a halt, now.
at November 27, 2007 1:22 PM
What's a conventional weapon as compared to a hunting weapon? Sometimes news writers appear to be making an effort to write badly.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 27, 2007 1:28 PM
I hope you're right, Bonnie.
Posted by: undaunted at November 27, 2007 1:36 PM
Hot fitting that the nation who advance Eurabia so strongly is the one to suffer the most from their dreams. Hot poetically just.
Holland, Spain, England, Belgium, Germany and any european nation with Muslims will suffer the same problem.
How long till europeans open their eyes?
As Robert said previously, it's bkz the european ldeaders do nothing that many people turn to the nazis and other white supremacist groups. If anti-jihad becomes mainstream, the neo nazis will be shunned, and muslims will either accept european laws or move back to allah's lands.
at November 27, 2007 1:38 PM
tanstaafl:
I agree that Charles Martel and the battle of Tours can be taken as the beginning of the French nation (though it would take centuries longer to establish itself as a nation-state like we know of them today.)
And I totally agree with you that the French need some patriotic fervor now more than they've needed it in the last 60 years. But the nationalistic fervor of the French Revolution is what got France in this predicament in the first place. In my opinion, the French Revolution was one of the worst events in European history for a host of reasons and I will never accept on any level the celebration of Bastille Day. The issues that plague Europe stem from the last 500 years and the only way that Europe will find the balls to fight back will come from the foundations laid in Europe long before that.
Without proper recognition of those foundations, there is no hope for France or Europe.
Lastly -- there is no such thing as European Nationalism and there never will be. There are, however, commonalities within Europe that ALL European nations share: it's foundations in Greco-Roman thought and politics and the Catholic Church. The fact that Europeans can't even accept these statements as fact proves how displaced their perspectives and historical understandings are.
Crusader:
You're right. If the anti-jihad movement was accepted on the facts that it is based upon and not attacked with weak, politicall correct arguments from both the right and left in the West, then the Muslims would either have to accept Western laws or leave.
Posted by: GuardianofPeaceandJustice at November 27, 2007 2:18 PM
They’ve let the enemy in through the gates. Deal with it.
It doesn’t matter if these ‘youths’ are of ethnic, Mohammedan, NorthAfrican or MiddleEastern origin. These ‘youths’ are the enemy of the people of France. As agitators, anarchists, saboteurs, arsonist, snipers, muggers and murderers, their crimes against French society must be dealt with absolute force. France, deal with it. They are your ‘youths’.
at November 27, 2007 2:39 PM
...declare martial law and start deporting Muslims.....and Ban Muslim Immigration...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at November 27, 2007 2:47 PM
With each passing year of these 'youths' attacking French society and the Republic, France will look more and more like the "Paris of the Mediterranean".
Close the gates, and deal with it.
Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at November 27, 2007 2:49 PM
I hope one of our French readers can share with us how these riots are being reported in the French media (if at all)...?
How do the native French view these rioters...as wayward son's of the nation?....or as interlopers from outside?
Posted by: Cornelius at November 27, 2007 2:56 PM
Good old violence
“Just as they are killing us, we have to kill them so there will be a balance of terror…. We will do as they do. If they kill our women and innocent people, we will kill their women and innocent people until they stop.” Osama bin Laden, October 2001.
That’s a good advice for Israel in Gaza, and for situations we are now witnessing in France and the rest of Europe
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/11/good-old-violence.html
Posted by: shiva at November 27, 2007 3:10 PM
Hey Watchers--
Check out this piece of retarded bullsht from a poster calling herself elbowsunique
"...the fact that most of the people come from muslim-majority countries, and that a slightly smaller number of the people rioting probably come from muslim family backgrounds, is neither here nor there..."
@elbowsunique
You're head is neither here nor there.
Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at November 27, 2007 3:25 PM
It is reported that the youths do not feel part of the system, that these areas had been left to fester in the past and that the regeneration takes time, that it will take a generation to sort out. All politicians are talking about coming together in some grand dialogue to discuss ways to improve life in these areas.
There is some focus on criminals and drug dealers who are rejecting French society and that the violence is unacceptable, they note the difference in attitude between the parents who are asking for calm and the youths that want to riot.
The media tried to show some of the employment schemes that were trying to give opportunities to these people. They showed that the tower blocks are being torn down and regeneration projects to make the areas a better place to live in are happening.
They focus on people in these areas saying that burning down local schools and libraries is madness, there is a call for local policing.
The focus is trying to talk calmly about it, deflate tension and say that things are being done, I think to deflect a spreading of these riots.
07:30 tomorrow Sarkozy will meet the injured police, at 09:00 he meets the parents and at 09:45 there is a major meeting of the government.
The police union have been fairly strong about the use of fire arms against them.
There is no comment on Islam at all.
As for native French, disgust, comment on the stupidity of burning down their own facilities, talk around lack of jobs etc., but I would point out that a lot of normal French are fed up with these people, crime is up, violent muggings are up, people resent this.
The murder of a 23 year old women on the RER D is compared to the deaths of these two youths and the question is being asked who should be feeling the outrage more, there is some anger that the death of this young woman in a horrible attempted rape is largely ignored because of this. This shows a certain anger by some of the French people to this insecurity. Especially comments about this line being left to the muggers and rapists.
Does that help in understanding how its been reported.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 27, 2007 3:32 PM
Also note that most people in my area know that it is North Africans who are at the heart of the problem. They think that this sort of attitude is just how the North Africans are.
I get the sense that there is fear that the French are getting more and more fed up with them and that this is something that the government seems to want to head off too.
My wife works with some Arabs and there is no discussion at all about these events in her company, they just do not talk about it, though a few look a bit streesed.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 27, 2007 3:36 PM
Apparently the BBC reports that the Govt. action/pledge aist after the last time this happened was:
Just the very things to cure rampaging Jihadi criminals.
High quality uncommented video also at the BBC site: http://tinyurl.com/2h96cn
Posted by: Un:dhimmi at November 27, 2007 4:01 PM
oops! 'aist'=list btw :)
Posted by: Un:dhimmi at November 27, 2007 4:03 PM
after katrina hit new orleans. the national guard went straight into action, patrolling the streets, shooting bandits, and putting down the armed uprising from the black population. many police stations were attacked and bandits shot many cops in N.O.
why hasn't france sent in the big guns yet? sarkozy is not that strong, or is he hoping that it will all blow over? secretly biding his time and not wanting to send in the armed militia which will result in disastrous consequences for his presidency and the country. 2 million non muslim socialists will then join with the muslims and you will be looking at an attempted coup if armed cops are allowed to fire back.
france is very unstable.
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at November 27, 2007 4:24 PM
The murder of a 23 year old women on the RER D is compared to the deaths of these two youths and the question is being asked who should be feeling the outrage more, there is some anger that the death of this young woman in a horrible attempted rape is largely ignored because of this. This shows a certain anger by some of the French people to this insecurity. Especially comments about this line being left to the muggers and rapists. - Posted by: Daffersd
This is happening in other cities and townships of Europe, Denmark, Sweden, Italy, etc. Watch the people vote, don’t be surprised if the Swiss styled election goes that way in France, with “white sheeps kick black sheep” posters going up. When the people have had enough, they will “kick” with their votes, no matter what pols tell them. Sarkozy must close the gates, and let the people attend to these affairs as they must. It is too horrible to have women raped and mugged, killed, youths assaulted by these so-called ‘youths’ any longer. Stop the ‘merde’ inflow and close the gates. Let the real French deal with it.
at November 27, 2007 4:25 PM
Sorry to inject reality into this, but Lord, this is absurd.
Predominantly CHRISTIAN minorities in the LA inner cities did the same thing in 1991. This stuff can and has happened with disadvantaged minorities everywhere, across the world.
Does anyone have a SHRED of evidence that this is at all related to Islam, or is an Islamist "Intifadah", or is at all different than what happens periodically in American inner cities? I'd love to hear it. The difference between vigilance and prejudice is evidence.
Back it up.
Posted by: Shlomo_Michael at November 27, 2007 4:33 PM
Sorry to inject reality into this, but Lord, this is absurd.
Predominantly CHRISTIAN minorities in the LA inner cities did the same thing in 1991. This stuff can and has happened with disadvantaged minorities everywhere, across the world.
Does anyone have a SHRED of evidence that this is at all related to Islam, or is an Islamist "Intifadah", or is at all different than what happens periodically in American inner cities? I'd love to hear it. The difference between vigilance and prejudice is evidence.
Back it up.
Posted by: Shlomo_Michael at November 27, 2007 4:39 PM
Sorry to inject reality into this, but Lord, this is absurd.
Predominantly CHRISTIAN minorities in the LA inner cities did the same thing in 1991. This stuff can and has happened with disadvantaged minorities everywhere, across the world.
Does anyone have a SHRED of evidence that this is at all related to Islam, or is an Islamist "Intifadah", or is at all different than what happens periodically in American inner cities? I'd love to hear it. The difference between vigilance and prejudice is evidence.
Back it up.
Posted by: Shlomo_Michael at November 27, 2007 4:39 PM
Daffersd said:
Also note that most people in my area know that it is North Africans who are at the heart of the problem. They think that this sort of attitude is just how the North Africans are.
Gee, what could it be about "North" Africans? Let's check that central suppository of knowledge, Wikipedia. Could it be, perhaps, their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups "> religion?
"The people of the Maghreb and the Sahara speak various dialects of Berber and Arabic, and almost exclusively follow Islam."
WikiIslamoPediaPhobia.
Elbowsunique said:
"they're simlpy impoverished, ethnically discriminated against street thugs,"
Waa waa waaaa!
Shlomo_Michael said:
"This stuff can and has happened with disadvantaged minorities everywhere, across the world."
... but it sure seems to be concentrated in areas where that additional element, Islam, is present.
Posted by: RalphInfidel at November 27, 2007 4:59 PM
Oops, the link above should be:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups "> religion
at November 27, 2007 5:04 PM
Hmm... I give up, it works in the Preview. Paste it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
Posted by: RalphInfidel at November 27, 2007 5:07 PM
First off anyone who thinks this is coming to America hasn't spent much time here. We have our own ghetto uprisings occassionally, but they are not conducted by Muslims. Muslims in the USA are outnumbered 30 to 1 by Latinos and probably 25 to 1 by Blacks. Muslims in the USA tend to be pretty well integrated into the society, better educated than the poor immigrants coming here illegally from Mexico.
As for France, these riots remind me of race riots of my youth in the USA. We had large urban ghettos full of Black people who suffered a lot of discrimination. Our solution was a fairly comprehensive reordering of things, from affirmative action, to civil rights laws, to integrated schools, to black police.
I suspect France will have to make similar changes to have any peace.
The last major race riot in the USA was 13 years ago and even that was limited to one city, and in a very odd circumstance. (Rodney King riot.)
So, while everything in the USA is not sweetness and light I do think the reforms vis-a-vis race since 1967-68 have achieved a level of fairness in society that make events like those unlikely to repeat (at least among Blacks).
Posted by: Dr0 at November 27, 2007 5:09 PM
The riots are orchestrated to coincide with the Annapolis conference...it's not about persecution, economics, discrimination, or any other of that age-old rot that never flew either...
...it's about capturing headlines away from something the entire islamist world is scared to death about: being forced to live up to their (pseudo)"peace" rhetoric, or face the music of discreditation as effective propaganda machines in the eyes of the world, who will render them irrelevant (an irrelevant mOslem is no different than a dead one in their own peers eyes).
Posted by: jcom972 at November 27, 2007 5:10 PM
"As for France, these riots remind me of race riots of my youth in the USA."
dude, the blacks in america living in the south faced real hardships and segregationist policies. the French islamic youth are given every resource and opportunities afforded to them by a government and a people who have bent over backwards for them
please do not even attempt to compare the african american struggle with the islamic uprising in france. next you'll be telling us that only poverty working class, poor, brainwashed muslims are involved in terror.
you've obviously never lived in france, travelled there or know anything about europe which has only seen a massive rise in uncontrolled immigration since the 1950's. this has nothing to do with "disaffected youth". please, you sound like nancy pelosi.
the europeans can do nothing but bend over backwards with help for minorities and refugees and this is the thanks they receive riots and islamic infitada.
at November 27, 2007 5:18 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7116213.stm
now Toulouse is being attacked. the infitada is spreading. poor france. good luck my french friend,s you are a great nation, please find the strength to overcome this evil.
"I suspect France will have to make similar changes to have any peace."
you mean appeasement? you give an inch to muslims and they take a mile.
at November 27, 2007 5:26 PM
Does anyone have a SHRED of evidence that this is at all related to Islam, or is an Islamist "Intifadah", or is at all different than what happens periodically in American inner cities? I'd love to hear it. The difference between vigilance and prejudice is evidence.Posted by: Shlomo_Michael
Put 2 + 2 together, please. Who do you think is behind the “armed attacks” on the police? In American ghetto riots of the past, there were no “armed attacks” against the police, though violence and burning, looting happened. Armed attacks with weapons is more than mere venting of frustrations, but organized and deliberate. What makes YOU think it is NOT Muslims behind these attacks, or it is not intafada? What do you have to back it up? Do you think they were Baptists, or Jehovah Witnesses? Or more likely Koran raised and fed? They don't have to be Jihad fanatics to hate France, her people, her freedoms, her culture. Being of the Islam pursuation is often enough to vent their hate, or worse, do "armed attack".
at November 27, 2007 5:38 PM
Shlomo_Michael, I would love to answer your question but there are too many unknowns and only one equation.
Have these misunderstood youths totally adopted French as their language?
Do they speak French at all?
Do they consider the French football (soccer) team as their team?
Is their refusal to adopt France as their home their own choice?
Do they expect the French people to make the changes to accomodate their demands?
I think an indicator of assimilation would be the signage over Muslim shops and stores. Are these signs in Arabic only?
I'm not going to venture an answer to your question, because I don't know.
I certainly believe that if you understood the racial situation in the US, you would not have brought it up. I think DrO took care of the question about racial unrest in the USA.
Posted by: Pelayo at November 27, 2007 5:39 PM
leonthepigfarmer,
I see from your link they have turned to that old favorite of Islamic "civilization": burning libraries and nursery schools. Ahhh, how sweet the smell of burning books and toys must be to the "disenfranchised youths".
Forget Neighborhood Watch, time for Neighborhood SWAT.
at November 27, 2007 5:41 PM
ralph
hitler, stalin and mao also burnt books.
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at November 27, 2007 5:47 PM
Shlomo_Michael
After the 2005 riots, intelligence analysis from the South Asia Analysis Group (a respected Indian think tank composed of a number of senior ex-government officials) associated the agitation and mobilisation of the 'youths' with the UK arm of Hizb ut Tahrir, a worldwide Muslim organisation devoted to the restoration of the Islamic Caliphate.
Although Hizb claims to renounce violence, there is strong suspicion (and evidence) in Britain of their incitement; a notable example being the famous 'Behead Those Who Insult Islam' cartoon protests outside the Danish Embassy - which they organised.
This group is well-known here for agitating protests and supporting legal action by radical Muslims (admittedly not on such a grand scale as Paris - but then again despite what people may say about Britain's Dhimmitude; actions on the scale of the ones currently being carried out in 'les banlieues' would not be tolerated here).
It is alleged to have not only established sleeper cells of its own in France, but is thought to be cooperating with several other, none-too-savoury groups, too.
Absolute proof? Certainly not. But none of the above would surprise me in the least - Anjem Choudhury (Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, formerly al-Muhajiroun) and the deported Omar Bakri are likely not too far away from this in my view, either.
See: http://www.saag.org/%5Cpapers17%5Cpaper1614.html for more.
PS - And watch your moral equivalence meter - it's going off the scale a little there ;)
Posted by: Un:dhimmi at November 27, 2007 5:50 PM
leonthepigfarmer,
"hitler, stalin and mao also burnt books."
Nuts of a feather.
Didn't Hitler, Stalin and Mao usually leave the library structure, removing specific books they wanted to destroy? They didn't want to end civilization, they wanted to control it.
at November 27, 2007 6:04 PM
Yep, the Nazis were selective in their book burning. But, men like Hermann Göring new the value of art and saved even Jewish works.
Deutschmarks uber idealogy, ja?
Posted by: Pelayo at November 27, 2007 6:14 PM
As the media does not identify any similarities between those expressing their 'urban anxiety" in Paris, we must assume that they share no common traits. Certainly violent gouups made up of mad Methodists, bad-to-the-bone Boy Scouts, nasty nuns, angry agnostics, or other antisocial misfits would be identified by headlines with bold print. These poor "Youth" need to file complaints with the EU Human Rights Commission, as their rights to media attention are being systematically denied by virtually all EU publishers and broadcasters.
These people show the initiative to leave their comfortable public housing unit, use their government provided transit pass to join their compatriots, use part of their government cash grant to purchase cans of petrol, stay up late searching for elderly to beat and locate unattended infidel vehicles to burn while posing for the throng of foreign media jihadists.
Someone must help these victims of media discrimination. How else will these "Youths" attract millions of like-minded Arab (excuse me... I mean Asian) jihadists to become the next wave of illegal immigrant co-religionists to burn other cities in the EU.
The media has no right to deny coverage to those who work so hard to be noticed.
at November 27, 2007 7:00 PM
Un:dhimmi
"actions on the scale of the ones currently being carried out in 'les banlieues' would not be tolerated here".
Not too sure about that, the riots that started in Brixton and spread throughout the country in 1982 were not that different. They were as a result of "insensitive policing" and "social deprivation" and resulted in the culture of handouts to the ethnic enclaves we have now.
BTW the BBC is commemorating the 25th anniversary of what it calls "The great uprising of 1982" with a special radio programme dedicated to it. I think they are calling it "Poetry from the rebellion"
at November 27, 2007 7:06 PM
RE:
Michael Schlomo, Hasim, The Serbian Guy, the gay English guy, and every other fake name you have posted here.
STOP assuming new, fake identities and just stay 1 person OK?
Nobody here will hurt you or anything.
I knew you were fake person playing the same games as you made the mistake of again comparing and blaming Christianity for everything from planets colliding, herpes being spread to Lindsay Lohan, to global warming, and the collapse of Yugoslavia into civil war.
Now you say the LA riots and other US incidents of civil unrest are again related to Christianity.
Where do I start to pick that apart?
Every riot or disturbance we have experienced in our history was related to specific minority leaders being assisinated or certain political demands not being met.
Remember Dr. King, Malcom X, Rodney King, issues with the Black Panthers?
None of those people were trying to make us into their race, their color, serve certain foods, or follow their religion.
They did not want white people to become black or to worship their beliefs, or have our women wear a certain type of clothing or risk rape and death.
This is exactly the case in France and all of Eurabia today.
If Mohammedtherapist prophet is insulted, pork is served to muslims, newspapers disrespect islam in some fashion, a male doctor attempts to treat a female muslim patient giving birth, or police arrest muslims in the commission of a crime THAN the mohammedians are reqired to wage war, fight, and subdue all non-muslims.
What dont you understand about the 2 situations?
Whatever and whoever you are posing as today, your alleged philosophy is grossly erronous and irresponsible.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 7:08 PM
I just read on FOX that the muslim terrorists are ramming cars and trucks into buildings.
Are they the police stations?
Where is the army?
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 7:12 PM
Predominantly CHRISTIAN minorities in the LA inner cities did the same thing in 1991. This stuff can and has happened with disadvantaged minorities everywhere, across the world.
Does anyone have a SHRED of evidence that this is at all related to Islam, or is an Islamist "Intifadah", or is at all different than what happens periodically in American inner cities? I'd love to hear it. The difference between vigilance and prejudice is evidence.
Back it up.
Posted by: Shlomo_Michael at November 27, 2007 4:33 PM
Really, what "CHRISTIAN minorities?" Back it up. Do you mean immigrant Latino/a's? Why do immigrants move here, then? Why don't they riot and demand things in their own countries? Why come to the USA and do that???
Ditto with Mohammedans. Yes, the Paris "Youths" are Mohammedans, and there's much more than a "shred" of evidence to back that up! Why don't they stay in their own countries and riot and demand? Eh? What's your answer to that?
Isn't "Shlomo" a Jewish name? You don't know that the Qur'an calls you "apes and pigs," and commands your annihilation as "Infidels" if you don't convert to Islam? Same with Christians in the K, btw. The wonderful Koran!
I received a piece of mail from the Carter Center today. The envelope had "Peace on Earth" written on it. I sent the letter back "Return to Sender" and under the "Peace on Earth" slogan I wrote, "Not as long as there's the Koran."
Posted by: darcy at November 27, 2007 7:17 PM
Leon, you wrote: "The blacks in america living in the south faced real hardships and segregationist policies.".
Yes, but strangely the most of the bad riots occurred in the North where there was more opportunity. Major riots were in Detroit, Oakland, Los Angeles, Newark and other northern cities, with their large, unassimilated black underclass.
The French islamic youth are given every resource and opportunities afforded to them by a government and a people who have bent over backwards for them.
What I see are the same sorts of barriers that Blacks, in the north circa 1967 faced. Not the whips and police dogs of the Southern seggregationists, but the cramped world of limited possibility for the future. By 1967 Detroit had second and third generation of Blacks who were up from the south. Not the original migrants who moved there 50 years ealier to escape Jim Crow.
What was good for their parents and grandparents - factory jobs, a rough all-white police force, sub-standard housing, bad schools, was not tolerable to them.
PigFarmer goes on to say "please do not even attempt to compare the african american struggle with the islamic uprising in france.".
Well I just have.
PigFarmer: "next you'll be telling us that only poverty working class, poor, brainwashed muslims are involved in terror.".
Nope, I won't. But I also won't view these riots as "terrorism". They have little to do with terrorism as we commonly understand it. They are not organized into cells, they are not pushing a political agenda, they are not communicating demands, they have no spokes-people. They are not even shocking us with brutality, when compared with 9/11 hijackers, or 3/11 train bombers or all the other jihadi we've seen produce attrocity.
It has in every way much more in common with the urban riots in the USA then with the well planned terrorist attacks of Al Qaeda.
PigFarmer goes on: "you've obviously never lived in france, travelled there or know anything about europe
Not true. I have traveled in France extensively for 30 years. I dated a French woman (born in Marseille) of Algerian descent so I have seen up close exactly what I am talking about.
If you think France is not a deeply racist society then you are wrong. It is not the Bull Conner racism of Mississippi, it's more like the racism of Detroit in 1967. (Where the two large yacht clubs in the center of the city had not one black member. Where the nice suburban housing outside of the central city was not open to even successful blacks.)
France is, no doubt, not as blatent as Detroit circa 1967, but it's still far from being as fair to its large minority as the USA is today.
PigFarmer goes on to say: "which has only seen a massive rise in uncontrolled immigration since the 1950's."
Well of course it has everything to do with the immigration. I would never say otherwise.
But then he goes on to say: "this has nothing to do with "disaffected youth". Which I disagree with. Who are these youth? They are a mix of new immigrants and native born children of immigrants. And yes, they are disaffected.
PigFarmer: "please, you sound like nancy pelosi."
OK, I'll try to ignore that.
"the europeans can do nothing but bend over backwards with help for minorities and refugees and this is the thanks they receive riots and islamic infitada."
I think there is a big disconnect between admitting refugees, which is done at the government level, and the experience of the arabs in France. For many they have the same constrained vision of the future that poor blacks in the USA had in the past.
Certainly the concrete high rises look alot like the famously horrible "projects" in the USA, which could also be looked at as some sort of wonderful gift to the poor, but which in fact turned out to be the biggest incubators of crime, gangs, and disfunction ever invented. Yes, I see a similarity there too.
Having welfare is nice, but it doesn't do much to make you feel important. It's not a substitute of belonging, or personal achievement.
I'm not saying they are blameless, or should be treated with kid gloves. But I am saying there is a cause, and like other posters here, I see little sign that it is "Islam" or that this is a front in some jihad, or that the rioters are seeking imposition of sharia law.
I agree with the others who say they are an angry, unassimiliated minority. Too bad France choose to let them in, in the first place.
But now that they are there I think the root causes need to be addressed. I don't think you can deport most of them, as many of them were born there.
Posted by: Dr0 at November 27, 2007 7:37 PM
"The riots are orchestrated to coincide with the Annapolis conference...it's not about persecution, economics, discrimination, or any other of that age-old rot that never flew either...
...it's about capturing headlines away from something the entire islamist world is scared to death about: being forced to live up to their (pseudo)"peace" rhetoric, or face the music of discreditation as effective propaganda machines in the eyes of the world, who will render them irrelevant (an irrelevant mOslem is no different than a dead one in their own peers eyes)."
Posted by: jcom972
-----------------------
Hmm, interesting idea. I suppose some "outside interests" could be provoking the idiots to ratchet up the protests. But... still... this is so similar to the last round of riots (caused by dumb-ass kids trying to escape the gendarmes by breaking into a power station, thereby removing themselves from the gene pool). In this case also, the initial trigger was dumb-ass kids who got killed being stupid. (I'm more inclined to believe the local "yutes" are outraged that Darwin may indeed have been right...)
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at November 27, 2007 7:50 PM
Being "born" in a certain nation means NOTHING to muslims!!
If that was the case than we here in the USA would not have hundreds of prisons bursting at the seems with "good" citizens.
I remember last year reading about a muslim woman being interviewed in Paris soon after the islamic jihad subsided and reporters were sent into the field.
The reporter asked her if she was loyal to France since she confirmed being born there or considered herself a loyal muslim.
Roughly, she responded "I am muslim first, I am muslim second, I am French third."
There goes your theory of muslims being born in the west and feeling any loyalty to the host nation.
Deportation is a superb idea and manadatory at this stage.
Tell me what is easier, throwing out the German Army twice this century or repatriating CIVILIAN MUSLIMS back to their choice of nation outside of Europe?
You should be thankful we here in the US did not think and say in WW 2 "Hey, the Germans are in France now, and it is just TOO hard to push them out now."
If we can do it to the German Army, than I hardly see any problems with muslims living in housing units.
Bring in the regular French Army and Territorial Army and work on a monthly schedule, say 45,000 a week.
The Germans paid the Soviet Army to leave and it was done in roughly 4 years.
Apply the same recipe here in the rest of Eurabia.
I did appreciate her honesty, but what she said did not respond me since I have been studying islam on and off since the first Gulf War.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 7:53 PM
Darcy, I'd like to comment on your posting too. I agree with some of your statements and disagree with others.
First off, concerning the USA you write: "Every riot or disturbance we have experienced in our history was related to specific minority leaders being assisinated or certain political demands not being met."
This is untrue. The 1967 Detroit riots were set off by percieved police brutality, when they attempted to shut down a afterhours club on a hot summer night. The Watts Riots of 1965 were caused by a police traffic stop. The Rodney King riots in L.A. were caused by police accuital in their trail for a beating of King.
You go on: "None of those people (King, Malcolm) were trying to make us into their race, their color, serve certain foods, or follow their religion.
True! Are the rioters in France demanding this? I haven't heard it. The few comments in the article from participants are about police harrassment, and lack of respect. Not the need for Sharia, or anger at pork on the menu.
You go on: "If Mohammed the rapist prophet is insulted, pork is served to muslims, newspapers disrespect islam in some fashion, a male doctor attempts to treat a female muslim patient giving birth, or police arrest muslims in the commission of a crime THAN the mohammedians are reqired to wage war, fight, and subdue all non-muslims."
I don't think cartoon riots and these are the same, except in a very superficial way. The cartoon riots were certainly about Islam, and trying to impose Islamic cultural norms on the West. (No insults of Mohammed, etc.).
Finally, your comments were to someone who posts under different names, not to me.
I agree with your point that Watts, Detroit etc. had NOTHING to do with Christianity, even though proabably close to 100% of the participants were nominal Christians. I suspect the same relationship exists between these riots and the putative faith of the participants: little connection.
Look at the participants! No beards, no robes. These are requirements for observant fanatical muslims. These guys are French hip-hop gangsters, with Arab names. If they like Obama it's because "he's a bad mother", not because they agree with his Salafist ideology.
Posted by: Dr0 at November 27, 2007 7:53 PM
Oops. "Obama" above should be "Osama". Really! It was an innocent typo mistake!
Posted by: Dr0 at November 27, 2007 7:57 PM
Hey Dr. O,
The typical muslim that butchered Van Gogh in Holland recently was wearing western style clothing and it did not stop him from murdering the filmmaker.
The 19 hijackers on 9/11 were all wearing western clothing and shaven.
They still butchered thousands in the air and on the ground.
Remember, war is deceit according to mohammedthemadman.
You are falling in the old, islamic trap.
Dont believe everything you see or hear from the MSM as they are obviously islamic sympathizers.
Your logic is deeply flawed.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 8:00 PM
Did anyone else ever remember reading an article in the Economist roughly 2 years ago regarding a small, French town on the Med coast?
It basically said, the muslims had become a majority of the population and decided to have a referendum regarding alcohol and pork products being sold in the supermarkets.
The French mayor asked the muslims to respect French traditions and appetites that had lasted for centuries in the region.
Guess what?
The muslims voted AGAINST alcohol and pork products in their supermarkets.
Apparently, muslims did not care about French feelings or traditions so there you go with tradition.
It was a small example of what is now happening in France, but it is still a powerful example of what muslims will do when they become a majority in any nation.
Dr. O, muslims DO HAVE a specific agenda that ranges from sharia law, pork products, and lifestyles.
If anyone can find this article in the Economist it would be most helpful and beneficial to all of us.
PS. Muslims did just remove pork products from a local, Chicago area highschool so the threat is very realistic of islam changing our values and tastes. This fight on the menu is not over, but war is slowly coming.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 27, 2007 8:19 PM
Hungarian Crusader
obviously the french should've been more understanding of their muslim guests, pork indeed, whatever next, pumping the muslim communities with cash, welfare, jobs and sharia freedoms and then the muslims rioting and claiming "discrimination"?
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at November 27, 2007 8:31 PM
those evil nursery schools! they are the cause of all racial conflict from 1960's african american struggle to poverty stricken poor "french" muslim youths, who love cricket (wait that's england).
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at November 27, 2007 8:34 PM
How about the French send in the army (using non-Muslim troops only); crush the riots by whatever degree of force it takes; then occupy, strip and search every last mosque in France, from basement to ceiling, and the imams' houses as well? Use sniffer dogs trained to detect explosives, drugs and such.
Confiscate every piece of paper, all computer equipment, and subject the finances of every Mosque, and every Muslim 'charitable' or 'community' or 'educational' association to a thorough forensic audit. Go through them like a packet of salts.
Every mosque found to contain illegal documents (e.g. false identity cards/ passports, such as were on one memorable occasion discovered in a ceiling cavity in a mosque in Britain), weapons, or inflammatory pamphlets and sermon tapes, or beheading videos, etc, or whose finances are suspect (involvement in fraud of any kind; money funnelled to jihad organisations/ their 'fronts') should be burnt to the ground, or bulldozed flat, or blown up by a trained demolition team, immediately upon the confirmation of such discoveries. Deport every imam associated with such mosques.
French readers and posters here - is M le Maire of Villiers-le-bel a non-Muslim?, if he is, write letters that both condole and educate. Find out who was in charge of the library that got burnt down - if they are not Muslim, write a letter, offer to donate some books, explain WHY the Muslim rioters targeted a place like a library. Find out the names and families of all 77 injured policemen, and send them letters that commend them for bravery, thank them for their service in the line of duty, but also explain the nature of the war between dar-al-Islam and dar-al-Harb in which they have just been wounded (reference this website!).
Write to Patrice Ribeiro. Commiserate with him on the wounding of his police officers. Tell him about Antoine Fattal, and Bat Yeor; but also tell him about Charles Martel, and Jean de Valette who led the defence of Malta in 1565. Send him some useful books: Onward Muslim Soldiers, and The Truth About Muhammad, and The PIG to Islam and the Crusades. Most educated French people read English.
Make sure he knows that he has at his back French citizens who will support him to the hilt in his defence of French sovereignty, French law , on French land, against the Muslim rejection of that sovereignty, the Muslim contempt for French Infidel law, the Muslim desire to destroy and pillage France and reduce French people to terrified and exploited slaves of a Muslim despotism. Encourage him.
Find out whether, and how many, non-Muslims still remain in and around the Islamised areas where the riots have been happening; find ways to boost their numbers and confidence, perhaps through churches or cathedrals that still exist nearby. Find ways to give hands-on and psychological support to the French non-Muslim teachers in the schools.
Hanukkah approaches. Advent is here. Christmas approaches. Use those holidays to boost morale. Even if you haven't been to church for years - make sure you go, on every feast-day, this season, and pack every church in France, to the rafters. Make lots and lots of noise - what else are church bells for? Light HUGE Hanukkah menorahs (French Christians - those of you who are wise - put a menorah in your window, in solidarity with the Jews of France, who are feeling frightened and harassed; send a gift basket to your local synagogue; invite your Jewish neighbour or colleague to dinner, and discuss the Jihad).
If all non-Muslim French citizens actively, consciously, noisily and visibly, in very large numbers, retake the streets, the squares, the schools, and the suburbs, you might just turn the tide against the Muslim thugs and bullies.
For the sake of all the saints, martyrs, and confessors of France, from Martin of Tours to Jacques Ellul, may God bless and restore France and save her from the murderous Mohammedans.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at November 27, 2007 9:09 PM
Shlomo_Michael, with the ostentatiously "Jewish-sounding" (to a Muslim) nom de poste, is back, telling us that when Muslim "youths" riot against the arch-symbol of state authority in France (admittedly, all kinds of non-Muslim French shudder at the sight of the police, who are not regarded with the respect they get in this country), nothing about Islam is involved. I thought we'd had enough of him. I don't think that I was wrong.
Posted by: Hugh at November 27, 2007 9:26 PM
Hi everyone,
I'm a Canadian who lived in France about 10 years ago, when nail bombs went off in the Paris subway and in a trash can, killing and injuring many people. At that time, the Plan Vigi-Pirate (I swear, I'm not making this up) was put in place to deal with attacks. Trash cans were blocked on the streets of France (resulting in stinking piles of garbage), riot police and soldiers with automatic machine guns patrolled train stations as well as public transit and they could ask anyone for their ID. Patrols with dogs were held during the day, not just at night. Not only that, any bag left for too long (like a half hour), unattended, in a public place would be taken away by the bomb squad and destroyed.
So for those who are asking the question: Where's the army? I can only say that I believe that Sarkozy has to authorize military presence before the troops can be called in, which may be the result of his meeting tomorrow morning.
I've been listening to both TF1 and France 2 and I've noticed that information changes. TF1 says that the police car and the bike were found 30 metres from the crash site, while France 2 says they were found 40 metres away. TF1 says that there are 77 policemen hurt, France 2 says there are 82, 6 of them by bullets. Also, there are more eyewitnesses quoted on France 2.
For example, an older man says that he saw two 12 or 13 year-olds carry a container of gasoline, delivered by a taxi, up to the roof of the library, where they kicked in the window and set the place on fire. He feels for the teens' mothers because they will suffer, but destroying property is a shame and costs lots of money. A woman who worked at the nursery school says, "This won't bring back the dead."
There have been 8 people arrested, 2 of them age of majority who were condemned to 10 months of prison without parole, 1 for throwing rocks at police and the other for destruction of a police station.
6 mayors of Parisian suburbs have called on all parents and adults to ask their children to stay home tonight. ("Youth" in France includes those of university age.) The affected areas will be lit up and people are invited to come down and talk to their elected representatives, in an effort to occupy the ground so as not to give it up to vandals.
Also, police presence will be doubled tonight and in the Val d'Oise, it is forbidden to sell gasoline in a container larger than 5 litres.
I lived in France for 5 years and came away with the impression that French people have different expectations of their government then Canadians. French people think very much of the collective, not the individual, so the French march in the streets to protest the price of gas going up (which affects independant truckers) and Canadians don't, as an example. Canadians would rather stop people from smoking in public places, which the French see as an intrusion on their personal freedom.
Many thanks to Daffersd for his translations of French news and insights.
at November 27, 2007 10:06 PM
Shlomo_Michael,
I thought we'd had enough of him. I don't think that I was wrong.
Posted by: Hugh at November 27, 2007 9:26 PM
No Hugh, as usual, you are spot on. I have had more than enough of him.
at November 27, 2007 10:17 PM
Ah,
I remember the good old days when I was a teenager, and in between school, homework, and practicing, my friends and I would go torch cars and riot.
My mom told me how they would listen to the beatles, iron their hair straight, and torch buildings back in the good old days.
Some of the younger people in my family are now busy prepping for the SAT and torching...
............................
Oh wait a minute. I never did that, nor did other people I know. I grew up in the "real world" where rioting was not considered a rite of passage that "youths" engaged in. People that caused trouble when I grew up were called thugs and looked down upon.
This has nothing to do with the word "youth." In fact, one cannot choose whether they are a "youth" or not, though I myself want to be youthful as long as possible.
Isn't it ironic how in a pathetic attempt to be PC, the press intentionally misleads by writing articles that broadly discriminate based on genetic characteristics such as age in an attempt to avoid bigotry?
Posted by: sh217 at November 27, 2007 10:22 PM
The reason the French, as individuals, are not fighting back against these Muslim rioters is that, as individuals, they would be beaten, and as vigilantes, they would be prosecuted by their own government. Ditto for the citizens of every other nation watching the creep of Islamofascism.
Only the French government can create an organized opposition to these lawless mobs of "disaffected youth" who are all to eager to find an excuse to extend their domination of the dhimmi host.
Please, Mr. Sarkozy, take this opportunity to be the leader so many frustrated individuals have been waiting for. Create law and order in your nation and eliminate every last no-go zone. Save France, and begin the salvation of Europe. The world waits for such leadership. If even one nation can stand up to these thugs, an example will be set, and we can all have hope again. Be our Charles Martel.
Posted by: Karl at November 27, 2007 11:19 PM
sarkozy has deployed armed police
this is all good etc but what happens when the police shoot dead an "innocent little french lad on his way to pick up a croissant"?
no, france must respond with the legion. bring them in now, save europe or lets just get on with sharia law and i'll order my wifes sexy black burqah.
please, in time of war, let's not pussy foot around.
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at November 28, 2007 12:23 AM
Perhaps the French need to swallow their pride and call for German divisions to assist in quashing this jihadist rebellion.
They have years of experience and could put it all to good use in France.
Is it not better to learn German rather than Arabic?
Sarkozy comes from a Hungarian background and he has acted like a total skirt and disgrace to all his ancestors.
His relatives firebombed Soviet tanks and he cant seem to call up and annhilate these ghetto muslims with the regular army.
Stop calling for calm in this hurricane and make the call to your troops.
He is useless.
Posted by: Hungarian Crusader at November 28, 2007 12:32 AM
Bonniea--I agree with your post EXCEPT for one tiny correction. It isnt Rudy that wins but the Huckster. Thats right, I now prophecy that Mike Huckabee IS the next President of the United States!
Posted by: guide inside at November 28, 2007 12:38 AM
But now that they are there I think the root causes need to be addressed. I don't think you can deport most of them, as many of them were born there. - Posted by: Dr0
Tell that to the 800,000 Jews who were kicked out of Arab countries after having lived there for generations. Tell it to the Italians or French or Engnlish or Dutch who had lived in Aftica or Asia, for generations. Tell it to any ethnic group kicked out because they were deemed 'enemy' and not wanted around anymore. Why should the West tolerate the Arab scourge of Jihad, crimes, rapes, even if they had been there for generations. Kick them out. Wherever they choose to go is their problem, be we do not need them here burning and raping and killing anymore. Tough luck!
at November 28, 2007 1:28 AM
I got a link from another tread that went to a French site today. After Google translation and reading the comments they don't get it. They are blaming it on no work and no hope because the 'black youths' are alienated from the 'white middle class'. Bottom line it is the societies fault not the mOslems fault. Out of the fifty or sixty post that I read I saw one that directed back to a US site (Frontpage) that told the truth.
ITS ISLAM STUPID!
So a lot of cars are going to be burnt until something changes.
Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at November 28, 2007 1:51 AM
Martial law,as has been suggested above, is a quality beginning. This has progressed far beyond the scope of rock throwing disenfranchised "youths."
There is a last ditch effort which can be employed by citizens, as well as authorities, should the government deem it too risky to protect the populace from ARMED marauders running amok: the advertised and indiscriminate use of pork products in the creation of no-go pork zones. The superstition angle is one that must ultimately be exploited here(much as Pershing and others did)in much the same way garlic is believed by some to ward off vampires or silver werewolves. That's assuming shooting back is actually verboten of course. This present lack of forceful reaction from a nation which killed nearly anyone on circumstantial evidence(Rose-Pierre) back in the late 18th century. Perhaps that's it-a guilt complex over past transgressions which has no bearing on the present situation. Astounding.
Posted by: We need G.C. Scott at November 28, 2007 2:06 AM
Interesting.
France is attacked by the Muhammedan invaders and the trolls on Jihad Watch come out in force to tell us its all not true.
A repeating pattern. How many times have we seen it before?
The FBI & the CIA should get their IP addresses and round them right up for Gitmo....
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 28, 2007 2:08 AM
Any EU Moslem who's out of a job for more than 90 days, kick him out. Send him and family back to country of origin, no matter what the generation. If that is not acceptable, send them to some Islamic Sharia paradise like Saudi Arabia or Somalia, with no return ticket. It is time to clean house, and get rid of those ingrate Moslem rioting 'youths', parents too. Life is tough, if you hate your adopted country, leave! We're fed up with the 'youths' of this 'religion of peace', 'nuff damage done. Time to stop it. Those primitives don't belong here.
Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at November 28, 2007 2:26 AM
I see that the "youths" are "protesting" in France again.
I'm pretty sure that no "Muslims" are involved. And even if some of them are involved, it's just a "tiny minority" of all Muslims, right?
And since Islam is a "Religion of Peace" then it can't be a contributing factor either, right?
Our mainstream media outlets are all over this story and keeping us well-informed, right?
Posted by: alexon at November 28, 2007 2:39 AM
These "protests" are best explained by the Socialists who understand the downtrodden and oppressed masses best. For example, in this quote from the story by John Ward Anderson just posted on the washingtonpost.com --
"This was a symbol -- it's the Republic, the state, and so they threw molotov cocktails at city hall" and other government buildings, said Raymonde Le Texier, a Socialist senator who was mayor of Villiers-le-Bel for a decade. "People feel forgotten by the government powers, and it's the truth -- they have been forgotten by those in power."
And this:
"Added town council member Serge Lotterie, 63, a retired postal worker also from the Socialist Party, "This has been a bomb waiting for the match to strike."
"These guys have nothing," he said of youths who went on a rampage after two teenagers were killed Sunday night when the motorbike they were riding collided with a police cruiser. "They stand in the streets at night with their hoods up and wait for things to happen, and so they close in on themselves and forget about integration."
Ah yes, they "forgot" to integrate. Penetrating stuff.
And then this: "The young guys who live here have no future," said Lotterie, the > town council member. "If you want to work in Charles de Gaulle" -- the nearby international airport -- "and if you're from Villiers-le-Bel, you're black and your name is Mohammed, there's no chance."
You see, Socialists can really understand the downtrodden, disillusioned, and oppressed.
"The town of 27,000 residents has 50 ethnic and religious groups and an unemployment rate of about 40 percent, he said. Everyone says everything is possible, but not for these guys."
"Many of the apartment houses have absentee owners who are renting each unit to as many as four families, Lotterie said. Some rent out their kitchens, so you can imagine how people live there."
Lotterie can only imagine it too.
"Many white residents of the town appeared to be taking the violence with a sense of resignation. G¿rard Jean, a town firefighter who was comforting a friend inside her ransacked beauty salon, said getting angry wouldn't help. "I feel sorry. If we get angry, we'll be like the kids in the street."
Getting angry won't help, you see. You no longer hold the moral high ground if you fight back. You're no better than the rioters, uh, I mean, "protesters," if you defend yourself.
And finally, the paralyzing moral of the story:
"The kids have one frozen idea about the police. The police are just the devil, and there's no solution," said Pierre Tap¿, pastor at a local Baptist church who moved to the town from Ivory Coast six years ago. On the other hand, when police see the young people, they see only black and immigrant youths, even though many are French, he said. "The responsibility for the situation has to be shared. The kids are at fault, and so are the police."
Moral Equivalence! Yes the "kids" are at fault, but so is everyone else. All of France is responsible.
at November 28, 2007 3:03 AM
Thanks RedSkyatNight for those additional items.
RalphInfidel, first of all I understand what Islam is and the danager it poses, I also believe that Islam is creating waves of problems with the populations that are infected by its teachings but are loosely Islamic, they create instability and this is a good thing for Islam. I think that those people who pushed Islamic immigration in the 70's expected this to happen and there is a plan over time to turn Europe Islamic using demographics.
Last night there was 1,000 police in the area and apart from a few isolated incidents it was quiet.
I would point out that Dr0 gave a very accurate description of France and its relationship with immigrants. There is no positive discrimination, but they are treated officially as French, this means that more of the Muslim population see themselves as French first then in other European countries who have bent over backwards to accomodate their religion. This should not be ignored, I am not ignoring Islam as such here. Dr0 should however realise that just because they dress in Western clothes does not make any difference.
What you are seeing is the gangster affect, which is infused with Islamic superiority, they do not accept their parents life and are rebelling against that so you can say that they are ripe for exploitation by Islamic fundamentalists at this point. They identify themselves as Muslims, as well as outsiders within the French system, in fact both the Islamic affect and social exclusion is a factor here and you cannot ignore both.
This is a lost generation, they are only able to carry out crime and deal drugs, they never worked at school and left early or disrupted classes, however without qualifications some seem to think that they can work in a bank rather than a factory, my wife who just failed her degree cannot get a full time job in a bank. So they have an inflated opinion of themselves that does not wash in the already difficult and rigid French work system.
My wife actually worked for one young Arab who had been in trouble who was trying to better himself as a property developer, but he was ripped off by others and went bankrupt, he had been told that he was too good to work in a factory, but could not handle the work he was doing.
In the places where they work some of them refuse authority, my brother-in-law had the throat cutting motion made at him by Arabs when he tried to get them to work.
There is a major difference between the young and their parents too.
However people who have lived in France should not ignore the more recent influx of Muslims from North Africa as compared to those that were given sanctuary after the Algerian war and from other French colonies, they are different in attitude and do not ignore that dynamic.
Having said that I did a French language course with a class of immigrants, amazingly the class I was in did not have a single young North African Muslim male, though one Pakistani, but 12 were Muslim females who all wore French clothes and wanted to fit in. One Syrian lady was shaparoned.
About that supermarket that stopped selling pork and alcohol, it was Muslim owned. There is white flight of course out of these areas as the crime is directed at them, for example car burning, most Muslims put some sort of sticker or something that identifies the car as being owned by a Muslim, those cars do not tend to get set on fire, so the white population try to get out.
There is also some racial hatred aimed by the Arabs and Blacks at the Gauls and Franks.
I must point out that the UK Muslim population is much more religiously extreme while having the same gangster tribal type issues too, while the imams and Mosques in the UK are much better at channeling that Islamic energy then they are in France where the more extreme imams are booted out very quickly.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 28, 2007 3:14 AM
Fred
In what way was the '82 Brixton riot 'not that different'?
It consisted of Black British 'yoots' with little or nothing in common in terms of ideology/religion (other than perhaps to smash things up a bit and loot a few shops).
The '82 rioting (it was no 'uprising') was apparently sparked by a spontaneous crowd reaction to police officers, who were assisting a black stab victim, but, in an atmosphere of distrust over police 'stop & search' policy, widely believed at the time to be discriminatory against blacks (there is another debate to be had around the veracity of this, but not here); mistook this for harassment.
The Paris violence is being fomented mainly by North African-descent 'yoots', all of whom share a common ideology and religion.
It seems to kick off regularly at the slightest provocation/proximity to a given event,and as I have pointed out; there is some indication that it may be being instigated and/or agitated by outside forces.
Brixton was also a quarter of a century ago. This is another world altogether and your example is poor.
Posted by: Un:dhimmi at November 28, 2007 3:14 AM
Un:dhimmi
No, you said what was happening in France now would never be allowed in Britain. My point was it happened with black "yoots" in 1982 so it could happen now with "Asians".
Of course there is no comparison between black "yoots" in Brixton in 1982 and "yoots of North African origin" in Paris now, except one - they know the Authorities are afraid of them.
As for Brixton and the rest, it was opportunist rioting plain and simple, but tell that to the BBC and their poetry programme (next Monday PM?) they are calling it an "uprising".
at November 28, 2007 5:26 AM
For those that do not read French:
http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/
And this gives you an idea of the type that hang around these estates, but this is in Brussells:
http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2007/11/belgians-under-siege.html
Posted by: Daffersd at November 28, 2007 6:08 AM
Fred
You are correct in that what I did say was that what is happening in France would not be tolerated in Britain.
Where you are incorrect is in your citing of Brixton as an example to the contrary. It bears no relation to Paris in any way - scale, cause, casualties, participants.
Only in the fact that it manifested itself as an act of riot - and I never said that riots could not happen in Britain.
To do so would be clearly incorrect.
Posted by: Un:dhimmi
at November 28, 2007 6:31 AM
According to the latest from Le Monde:
Sarkozy has announced the start of a judicial enquiry into the deaths of the two youths on the mini-motorbike. Apparently he has met with their parents.
Jean-Pierre Mignard - who is a lawyer acting on behalf of the families of the dead youths - applauded Sarkozy's decision.
There is no mention of any enquiries into the violent actions of the rioters in this particular article, however.
See: http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-33389862@7-40,0.html
According to France Info:
Last night there were several police injured during this current wave of rioting. Buildings, cars and dustbins were set on fire again and 22 people were arrested. There were about half the number of cars and dustbins burned out compared to the day before.
It seems as though things were calmer last night compared to Sunday and Monday night.
See: http://www.france-info.com/spip.php?article44240
Posted by: watling at November 28, 2007 7:35 AM
"Darcy, I'd like to comment on your posting too" --DrO, above comment.
DrO, I don't see where you commented on my post.
You only commented (and quoted) "Schlomo"'s.
Posted by: darcy at November 28, 2007 9:10 AM
A very funny remark by Lawrence Auster on his invaluable "View From the Right" web site.
(http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009301.html)
A reader Richards F. writes:
"I just finished watching a FoxNews segment on the overnight riots in Paris. The entire report never used the terms “Muslim” or “Arab” the entire time. Marvin Kalb was ...couched all of his commentary in sympathetic terms about the French government not dealing adequately with the grievances of the “youths,” “rioters,” and “teenagers.
A Google search of foreign press services yielded similar newsspeak...not an Arab or Muslim to be seen."
to which Lawrence responds with following:
"Well, even if the French themselves no longer care, I am still very grateful to Charles Martel for turning back that youth invasion of France in 732. If they had won, they would have forced all the French to become teenagers."
Posted by: thomas. h at November 28, 2007 10:11 AM
Regarding the claims that this has nothing to do with religion. -If it's a case of poverty then why do we not see poor white people rioting? If it's because of racism then why haven't we seen jews, gypsies or samis rioting? What we do see is people rioting against society who do not define themselves as being part of the societies they live in. -Blacks in the USA and muslims in Europe.
There is some truth in that these latest riots are not primarily motivated by islam. But islam is their identity. -The thing that sets these people apart from society and lets them hate the natives. -Muslim nationalism pure and simple. Just because they are not waving korans around doesn't make this any less a muslim problem.
And more importantly it is part of a pattern of muslim violence against infidels that we see repeated all over Europe (and indeed the world) no matter how well they are treated or how much money they earn. Whether the muslims are a majority or minority, whether it is in Sweden or Pakistan - muslims attack infidels as a group for whatever real or imagined crime individual infidels commit. Or even just to keep the infidels out of their territories as we have seen from Norway/Sweden to Iraq.
Ps: So what if the rioting muslims do not demand that the French convert? Does Nazi-germany's claims that they were responding to Polish attacks mean that Hitler conquered Poland as self-defense? And how about Bin Laden & co's focus on western imperialism in messages directed at the west while focussing on islam when talking to the muslims? Does the guy have a split personality or do you think that just maybe he, like most people, frame his message to get the best response to it? It is the same thing we see with the rioting muslims. Of course they don't come out and say they hate France. That would be counterproductive, so instead the seek to justify their violence by blaming the victims and parrot the usual PC crap. Still their real views are clearly seen in their actions.
at November 28, 2007 11:34 AM
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