Elkarra said he was instructed by the FBI not to publicly discuss into details.

How convenient!

And anyone should believe him - why?

No one should be threatened - but he has no right to ask us to believe a threat was made without substantiation, especially when coming from a member of the religion of perpetual unsubstantiated victimhood.

Posted by: justamomof4 at December 9, 2007 8:06 AM

And esp. coming from a member of the religion of "War is deceit."

This current issue that Iran stopped it's nuclear program 4 years ago is probably deception. Because of "taqiyya," anything Muslims say must be viewed with suspicion and distrust.

Posted by: darcy at December 9, 2007 8:46 AM

Basim Elkarra has a habit/made a business of such allegations. Wonder how these all turned out?

These are the words of Basim Elkarra, executive director of the Sacramento chapter of CAIR:

“We have documented numerous reports of intimidating tactics used recently by some FBI agents. We’ve become disappointed and alarmed at reports of abuse by local FBI.”

And:

"There have been threats of deportation, telling someone they can't have an attorney, when the attorney was on the phone they wouldn't speak to the attorney."

In addition, Elkarra made allegations that law enforcement threatened to detain people for jaywalking; conducted surveillance of a mosque, and grabbed a youth by the arm.

During one arrest, according to Elkarra, agents

"knew there were three females in the house and five children, but they still came in with guns”.

Posted by: justamomof4 at December 9, 2007 8:51 AM

In addition, Elkarra made allegations that law enforcement threatened to detain people for jaywalking; conducted surveillance of a mosque

Posted by: aynrandgirl at December 9, 2007 9:17 AM

I have family members in FL with young children in school and sincerely hope that the headscarf thing doesn't happen to any of their kids.
The CAIR crime bosses could find themselves discussing discrimination against Muslims with the type of gator that doen't play football.

I once again call on the Senate to investigate CAIR's finances and connections and the MEGA-MOSQUES finances!

Posted by: Aunt Bea at December 9, 2007 9:59 AM

#1. Coming from the Sac Bee, this is par for the course.

#2. Only muslims are cited for jaywalking?

#3."knew there were three females in the house and five children, but they still came in with guns”.

How long has this guy lived in Sac? This is normal police routine.

#4. This looks like an attempt at damage control due to Savage lawsuit. Some more theater jihad, acting the victim jihad.

#5, Is it possible to fire the FBI?

Posted by: duh_swami at December 9, 2007 10:21 AM

Since the FBI is going investigating any death threat. Will the FBI please investigate the death threats all Americans are receiving from the Islamofascist?

Oh wait... that profiling… And it's not profiling when you assume any threat against the Islamofascist propaganda cell in America called CAIR is legit?

Who do these moronic rats and toadies at the FBI think they are kidding?

Posted by: senor doeboy at December 9, 2007 10:31 AM

Mosques in Iraq have been sites where forces gather to fire on American soldiers. They have been weapons depots. They have been repositories for explosives used in roadside bombings. Not once, not a hundred times, but thousands of times.

In the "Palestinian"-occupied territories, mosques fulfill the same function. They are also places to which "Palestinians" have run when being pursued by Israelis.

In Bangladesh, mosques have been natural centers of anti-Hindu agitation, and one can find on-line the pictures of a hapless Hindu pleading for his life, as he is beaten to death by Muslim worshippers apparently whipped up by a particularly effective imam in a particularly bloodthirsty khutba.

In Italy, in France, in Great Britain, in Germany, the police and other security services have found mosques with false ceilings, in which counterfeit passports and other useful documents have been found. They have found guns, grenades, devices for making explosives. All of this -- in mosques.

Why shouldn't mosques be under surveillance? Why shouldn't every last khutba be taped? Why shouldn't there be agents taping those who attend those mosques where it is discovered that certain things are said, or done, when mosques have such a record as this? There is no distinction in Islam between religion and politics. Islam is all-encompassing. Infidels must stop being mesmerized by the word "religion" and understand this.

Of course, one need not require a mosque to be whipped up to want to kill a passing Infidel. One need not need a mosque in which to plot or plan. One need not have a mosque in which to hide false papers and weapons. Of course not. So monitoring mosques, or demanding that madrasas show what they teach (what happened to the demand for the textbooks, and syllabi used, in that Saudi Academy near Washington, D.C.?), is only part of what must be done.

The disruption to any conceivable achieved or achievable social cohesion or harmony, when adherents of Islam, are present in large numbers, is great and is permanent. For how, in Infidel lands, without undoing ultimatley our own legal and political institutions, and abandoning the solicitousness for individual rights, can we deal with, possibly adjust to, since they have no intention of adjusting Islam to accomodate anyone else, those who are taught to believe in the right of Islam to dominate everywhere, and of their duty to ensure that that comes about, by removing all barriers to the spread, and then to the dominance, of Islam, are present in large numbers, and allowed to demand, and receive, even from the security services, outward shows of appeasement and accommodation? Islam was created to rule. It is the faith of conquerors, and it justifies and promotes conquest by them. Isl;am was designed not to be one among many faiths, but not merely to hold out the promise of a surer path to some Paradise than that provided by other faiths, but to prevail, so that its writ may run everywhere on the earth, so that everywhere Islam dominates, and Muslims rule everywhere. The fact that some clever propaganda of the "I Am A Muslim" type appears on YouTube, designed to convince the unwary that Muslims are just the all-American boy next door -- carefully left out is any discussion of what is in the head of that boy-next-door, of what Islam inculcates and what he presumably believes, or that it is right for us to assume he believes, from what the texts provide, and what the tenets derived from those texts, and the attitudes derived from those tenets, tell him to believe, cause him to believe.

Islam can be likened to a permanently un-immiscible liquid. It cannot mix with Non-Islam, anywhere, without bad results for the Non-Muslims. There are 1350 years of history to demonstrate that. Even now, with Muslims constituting 1% of the population (and half of those being non-orthodox "Black Muslims") there are textbook publishers who have rewirtten history, and state school boards that have not only accepted but demanded such a rewriting to placate Muslims, and as the already ignorant American young are presented with a deliberately false view of Islam and of Islamic conquest, the understanding necessary to withstand Islam's propgagandists, and the rich profussion of what they offer -- the distraction, irrelevancies, the gobbledygook, the nonsense, and especially, the lies, lies, lies -- will have its effect.

And the cost of dealing with all this? Or, to bring the post back to where it began, the cost of monitoring mosques and madrasas? The cost of guarding every airport, train and bus station, the cost in man-hours for every Infidel to show up an extra hour early, the security rigmarole, the guards at Christian and Jewish schools or churches or synagogues, the cost of guarding speakers, the extra cost now of guarding bridges, and roads, and government buildings, and historic sites, all of them conceivable targets for Muslims who, as all Muslims are instructed to, wish to further the goals of Jihad, but choose, unlike others, to do so through Da'wa and demographic conquest, but do so using the instrument of violence. The cost of guarding non-Muslims, all over the Western world, their houses of worship, their schools, their means of transportation, keeps going up. And the cost of monitoroing Muslims, their mosques, their madrasas, their stores and meeting-places, keeps going up.

What is the cost of this? One writer estimates that every additional Muslim in this country costs $100,000 a year, every year, to the taxpayers -- the Infidel taxpayers. Suppose his figure is off? So what? There is some considerable amount, we all know, that everywhere in the Western world has to be spent, and will have to be spent in larger and larger amounts, merely to monitor the Muslim population. That is because of what is believed by that population, what, that is, is to be found in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira.

Is it impossible for Infidels to take this in? And is it impossible for them to then construct an immigration policy that, taking that into account, will no longer make the great privilege of living in their own lands, lands whose art, whose science, whose political and legal structure, are all flatly contradicted by Islam, no longer available to those who, in calling themselves Muslims, tell us that we are justified in assuming, when they so call themselves, that they believe in what is containted in the texts, texts that we are free to investigate for ourselves, and discover their -- for us, for our future -- permanent and disturbing significance.

Posted by: Hugh at December 9, 2007 10:42 AM

"Elkarra said the threat was related to the conflict with Savage and that his office has received many profane calls from Savage supporters"

these people are very clever. they strike when the iron is hot then withdraw back to playing the victim.

snakes.

i just want everyone to prepare for the reality that we may lose this war.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at December 9, 2007 11:20 AM

The answer is obvious why the FBI rushes to the aid of CAIR and the MSM acts so concerned.

They see the threat as a race based crime. They figure that the threat was obviously sent by a pissed off white man and since the target was a member of a protected race and religion something has to be done.

And it explains why Spencer never got so much as a phone call from the FBI from the threats he's received. He's a white man and whatever happens to him he probably deserves it, at least in the eyes of law enforcement.

Posted by: waltc at December 9, 2007 11:30 AM

leonthepigfarmer said: "i just want everyone to prepare for the reality that we may lose this war."

Our government may lose this war, but the real backbone of this country is not the government it is the people and we the people will not lose this war!

Posted by: martdod at December 9, 2007 11:40 AM

I don't think these people are clever at all, they simply fall back on playing the victim card.A tactic that eventually fails as has happened in the past with welfare victims and now the current illegal immigration victims.The tactic fails when its use becomes predictable. Lets see, a Muslim group that is an unindited co-conspirator in a terror trial is sued for stealing copyrighted material while attempting to destroy an Americans right to free speech.The suit alleges this group is a terrorist front, a fact that is repeated in the media. The Muslim group immediately cries victim while making an unsubstantiated charge of a death threat.Is anyone really surprised by this? This is predictable so I doubt savvy people even "cair" anymore.The last time so-called threats occurred was when Congress moved against CAIR and the flying imams.

Posted by: Roxane at December 9, 2007 11:40 AM

Your points are correct, and alarming, Hugh. It's a dinosaur we'll have to do battle with now or and in the future. I'm confident believing hundred years from now Islam will be rendered to the status of what the Mayan, Incan and all the other archaic religions of history are to the people of today: irrelevant.

Brains over brawn will triumph in the end.

The jugular of Islam is it's claim of a relationship to the Creator. Focusing on this one aspect to disallow future minds the belief that any words from the Koran are actual thoughts of the same powerful Creator that caused, for instance, (and if one is inclined to believe such things), the ubiquitous electron to exist. Yes, truly, the Koran equates the same Creator who caused positive and negative magnetic and electical forces to be what(ever) they are, everywhere in this universe of ours, and causies the elementary quarks, leptons and bosons that comprise all matter in the universe to be what(ever) they are, and this same Creator who created these things for the purpose of whatever we as human beings exist for, ( ... the thought goes that we humans must be one of ITS supreme creations, and we must be the focus of ITS purpose for creating magnetic and electrical forces, and quarks, leptons and bosons in the first place), so does the Koran say that this same Creator also caused some guy to write a book to tell everyone that, for all eternity, IT wants— no, IT DEMANDS that ITS human creation begin to get into the habit of always having to stick our butts in the air FIVE TIMES A DAY while we also modulate the atmosphere with hundreds of years old memorized vocal utterances, called prayers, to IT? Uhm, ...! Ridiculous.

Frank discourse, involving many subjects and topics brought up for discourse, and presented perhaps better than my last paragraph's presentation of thought, will bring Islam to a status of bogus in the minds of future generations. To speed up the eventual demise of Islam, we need to construct public platforms where sane, sober individuals can have public dialog. The Protestant Reformation put a whallop to the Catholic Church, and today we need another reformation with Islam to take place.

The Koran originates not from the Creator of the Universe. With this premise the jugular of Islam is exposed. And the pen is, or will definitely be mightier than the sword. Mark these words.

To some later poster: please, just the words: 'Marked and noted, mergatroid! '

Thanks, whoever you will be ...

Posted by: mergatroid at December 9, 2007 12:09 PM

i just want everyone to prepare for the reality that we may lose this war.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at December 9, 2007 11:20 AM

Leon: As a core optimist, I unfortunately must say that I agree with you. We indeed may lose this war. We are quite accustomed to impossible situations resolved favorably -- in movies and TV -- in real life there are no guarantees.

ONE of the reasons is, it seems that every last aspect of their 'religion' tends to be something they can use to hammer on us. From dietary regulations, to dress codes, through their prayer rituals -- interrupting work, needing their feet washed, and the nervousness they can raise when they pray publicly -- to rules about their book not being abused, to rules against cartooning their prophet or defaming him or them or their book -- the list seems to grow every week. Where does something in their 'faith' work against them? I'm not aware of any... they make us bend over backwards, expensively, all the time and they play the victim, outrageously, through all of this assault on our culture. While being overt supremacists, calling us ignorant and Islamophobic, and now with lawsuits planning for each and all of the above. It seems overwhelming.

But the thing that really gets me depressed about our prospects is the shameful, cowardly, useless, (actually worse than useless) behaviour of our Left, academia, Democrats, and the media they control. This is the really bad part. They coddle the complainers, actively take their side, play along with the legal routines and give the guys ideas and everything. They do this of course out of a naive belief that Islam is just as merciful and beneficial as Christianity, while denying that Christianity is either of those, combined with their ongoing agenda of destroying capitalism. These guys are going to let more than the camel's nose under the tent flap, to borrow a phrase. The problem compounds all the time, and all my attempts to goad them into seeing the truth about their new comrades-in-arms, their new savior, have failed utterly. They can not or will not open their eyes. With some of them it's obvious and deliberate; like so many before them, they think they'll be able to discard or at least control the Islamists who have done their dirty work. They will find out very soon who's really in control, but by then it WILL be too late. They don't know how to fight anyway.

Sometimes all this seems like more than a coincidence. How did Mohammed design a faith so bristly and so capable of clogging other people's systems down so that they have little choice but to 'submit?' How did he know over a thousand years ago that every requirement he put on his followers would turn out to be a weapon against infidels?

It would be a hard enough struggle if it were America united against the gathering storm, but we seem as divided now as anytime in my lifetime. Why does the Right have to fight both the Left and the Islamists simultaneously, as sole defenders our constitution and our core values? People on the left -- many, not all, thankfully -- have ceded free speech already. Not good.

Things are going to get a lot darker before the final reel in this drama. It is set up pretty much like the classic film plot, with the hero facing impossible odds and being sold out by traitors. If we're going to prevail, we are going to need the combination that saves the day in those dramas: steadfastness, courage, belief in ourselves, a helpful ally who is hidden from us at the moment, and some miraculous lucky breaks. Hopefully we won't need the temporary suspension of the laws of physics so common to these 'solutions.'

I don't mean to talk defeatism here. But you're right, people need to prepare for a lot worse than we have now. I refuse to believe they're ultimately in the end going to win, though they may prevail past our lifetimes, and there is going to be some serious ugliness along the way. I wish it were not so.

Posted by: Goob at December 9, 2007 12:13 PM

Goob said: Leon: As a core optimist, I unfortunately must say that I agree with you. We indeed may lose this war.

After reading your post I find it hard to believe you are a "core optimist."

Sounds to me to be closer to sycophantic admiration of Islam.

Posted by: martdod at December 9, 2007 12:50 PM

We may have elected President Bush, but I seriously doubt that any of us intended to give him authority to negotiate our surrender to islam.

He is only a spokesman for the American people; and a terribly tongue-tied spokesman at that! A "decider"? No. The American people decide and delegate authority to elected officials.

President Bush has been a disaster in office and as Commander-in-Chief. I breathlessly await his retirement.

Posted by: Havoc at December 9, 2007 1:09 PM

Well said Havoc.

Posted by: martdod at December 9, 2007 1:18 PM

Martdod, it is beginning to look like we have two enemies, our own govrnment and Radical Islamers.

For the people to win this war, are we going to have to fight or own government?

Thomas Jefferson - "What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

And there is this little gem -

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."

Posted by: Pelayo at December 9, 2007 1:50 PM

Robert, Hugh, and all the posters;

Everyone has stated the facts as to what is going on time and time again. Many have made their concerns known to politicians, government agencies, and MSN to no avail. As a result no voices are heard. so CAIR and their ilk increase the offensive. As Goob pointed out, they are going after every aspects of the Western (non-believers) culture and government. The politicians and governments seem to encourage it by inviting them into various government departments. They are paraded up and down the halls of the White House and patted on their backs as if they own it. Bush said “They are our friends - a ‘religion’ of peace.” The fox is defiantly in the henhouse!! The citizens are being muzzeled and captured without any right to say otherwise. No noise of protest so business as usual - everyone is asleep. Except Savage. Now I realize a lot of people think he is a radical - about time somebody is - and a blowhard. However, he is adamant about the defense of “Borders, Culture, Language” and the Constitution. Many have been confronted by CAIR and quietly crawled away with their tails tucked between their legs. Savage wants to take CAIR on and expose CAIR for what it is - connections to terrorist and activities - those who finance CAIR and what their agenda is. The whole nine yards. I do believe Savage is the voice that will be heard. If I may suggest, everyone go to his website and contribute to his efforts so in that way our voices will be heard also. When this case is won, it will one victory of many that needs to be won. There, I have stated my opinion and hope this case is won.

Posted by: THSIMJ at December 9, 2007 2:07 PM

Pelayo, At the risk of sounding redundant I offer this:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

Posted by: martdod at December 9, 2007 2:18 PM

I hope this really wasn't an endorement for Obama because he is weak about the borders, like Bush.

Posted by: eaglecap at December 9, 2007 2:31 PM

I await to see the outcome of this law suit. he has hope now before the elections but not if the democrats gain power.

my advice for all americans posting here. if the democrats get into power we'll all need to get good attorney's because blogs (jihadwatch LGF etc), right wing conservatives radio, tv will come under scrutiny and forced out under the pretext of crimes against race and religion. all who post (as in some nations in europe france and the UK) can be prosecuted for religious intolerance and hate speech. look, germany is banning scientology but not islam?

you will be prosecuted, probably lose your jobs as you will be publicly named and shamed. you may face prison, a heavy fine and the loss of your computer privileges.

Far left socialism if a greater threat to western civilization than islam. muslims are patsies, they could be crushed over night if the governments wanted this but they oddly don't due to political correctness, the corrupt justice system and the hold that far left socialism has on the media and the civil courts.

"just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you."

we may lose this war, not to islam, god that is an easy battle. but we may lose this war to far left socialism.

all of you need to think about a good get out strategy. seriously.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at December 9, 2007 2:49 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4075442.stm

"The Racial and Religious Hated Bill would create a new offence of incitement to religious hatred and would apply to comments made in public or in the media, as well as through written material."

"The maximum penalty for anybody convicted of the new offence would be seven years imprisonment."

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at December 9, 2007 3:01 PM

leonthepigfarmer, I've gone back and read my posts, in your or in anyone else's opinion have I said anything hateful or insulting to anyones religion? I feel I have been critical but hopefully not hateful.

Not being defensive here just curious.

I don't want to run astray of any new or possible new laws. :-)

Posted by: martdod at December 9, 2007 3:24 PM

Time for optimism my fellow jihad-watchers! The world has been awash in mass hypnotism promulgated by the practioners of evil who have a handy tool called the Koran and its associated writings..Haditha's etc. Note the glaze in the eyes and rituals identical to photos and newsreels from the 1930's Nazi's. Michael Savage and a few select people in the old and new media have not succumbed to the total brainwashing necessary for the triumph of this hateful ideology pretending to be a 'religion of peace'. This is huge. Do not underestimate the essential goodness and greatness of the American people when this mass hypnosis steadily lifts. It is just starting..truly an exciting and wonderful time to be alive. Here at JW we will be partially responsible for an unimaginable lifetime acheivement..the preservation and then the overwhelming triumph of Western Civilization over the forces of dark..the latest incarnation is Islam..before that Communism and before that Naziism. How? Read this bullet points. Act now!
* Send as much money as you can to defend Michael Savage.
* Tell every forum you visit on the net about CAIR's push to eliminate our vaunted Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion. Tell them to send money now to Michael Savage.
* Read Dan Kennedy's books on marketing and John Carlton books on Copywriting. Stop preaching. Start marketing and copywriting now. Ex: " Teddy Bear's today. Your religious freedom gone tomorrow." Ex: "Nurses in USA..get ready to turn Muslim patients beds to Mecca..coming soon. Read for details." Ex" "American Women..are you ready for your daily beating? Coming soon. Read for details." Place ads on the internet and where the newspapers still have some cajones. No money? Take some Christmas money to place ads so you can still celebrate Christmas in 5 years legally.
* Use this forum to swap marketing and copywriting ideas so we can learn from each other where our time and money is best spent defeating this latest manifestation of Satan. (Yes, I am a proud Christian..I want everyone to be free to practice their religion or none at all, Hugh. However, I was placed on this earth at this time to defeat hateful political ideologies, Islam, in my own unique and peaceful way. Oh, we will.)
* Investigate remote influencing and remote viewing websites and start learning how to remote influence mankind ( I have no use for politically correct words like 'humankind.')In time, you will be able to remote influence sentient beings like most infidels to awaken them from their trance. I am. Suggestion: go to http://www.probablefuture.com . I been using their combo CD course for almost a year. It works.
* Study hypnosis and hypnotic writing. Investigate carefully. There are courses on Conversational Hypnosis and Ebooks on Hypnotic writing. No recommendations since I have not yet used them.
That's a start. Get busy!

Posted by: remote-influencer at December 9, 2007 3:27 PM

leonthepigfarmer...'We' might lose the war, but I won't. I may be slightly older than Hugh, but I can still get out of my wheel chair, and put up one hell of a fight. Just ask any of these attendants.
Not only that, but I got a lot of old codgers with attitudes to back me up. Most of them can still walk. If the old codgers brigade won't give up, then no infidel should. 'Purdurabo', means 'I shall endure until the end'. That's exactly what us of old codgers are going to do, until the end of Islam.
We want all you younger people to join us, Hugh included, in never giving up. If the old guy in the bed next to me never gave up, neither should the rest of us.
If we could get the nurse to unlock the door, we would go down the street to a mosque and protest.
When I asked her about that, she just laughed.

Posted by: duh_swami at December 9, 2007 3:38 PM

martdod

no i was just referring to the fact that the far left are using groups such as CAIR to implement a total ban on any discussion regarding islam. islam is their patsy they can use islam to shut off any dissent to their power and to anyone who will disagree with their far left ideology.
it wasn't a dig at your posts nor anyone else's.
I'm stating that freedom of speech for the conservatives and right wingers is hanging by a thread and we may lose this battle.

the litmus test will be mr savage's impending law suit. if he wins then i see a rainbow on the horizon. if he loses then all of us need to find a really great attorney as they will come for the top leadership down to the most prolific bloggers amongst us.

europe has entered this route. observe their draconian "religious hatred laws" and see where the "democrats" want to lead us when they are in power.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at December 9, 2007 3:38 PM

Death threads (TM) are a trademark of Muslims and everyone else who issues a death tread (TM) is violating their copyright. That's why the FBI is at it.

Posted by: Swissy at December 9, 2007 3:40 PM

If his claim is false, and I believe it is, shouldn't he be arrested and indicted on Federal charges?

Posted by: Mr.C at December 9, 2007 3:43 PM

duh_swami

islam isn't the battle we will lose. we may lose to far left socialism.

muslims are the socialists patsy's. they think they have so much power but they are puppets on a string.

i doubt a small minority of muslims in the west could ever win this war. no way. a few riots here, a few bombs there, but at the end of the day the far left will silence them better than any republican or libertarian could ever hope of. and the far left may also silence us.

hope I'm not being too paranoid. but the writings on the wall, go look at europe.

maybe I just have sunday blues?

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at December 9, 2007 3:43 PM

Yeah, I know Leon, I have lots of interactions with local leftist types...I was just making light of a serious subject...Hope your Sunday improves...

Posted by: duh_swami at December 9, 2007 3:53 PM

"...you will be prosecuted, probably lose your jobs as you will be publicly named and shamed."

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer

I think we, in the US, have a little time yet, before prosecution for disliking Islam and its tenets can land us in jail. But, only a little bit.

I see what's now happening to our British and European allies, and I don't feel triumph, every time some new surreal situation threatens to pull the rug out from under them. I'm appalled, because the thought always flits through my mind: "We're next."

Named maybe, but never shamed. In order for the shaming to work, the shamers would have to play on the morality of those to be shamed. (A little something I picked up from Ayn Rand's 'Atlas Shrugged'.) When one stands by his actions, and the morality of his words and deeds, external shaming has zero effect. Multiculturalism and Diversity are poison, and I don't swallow either.

(Actually, it's gotten to be sort of fun to challenge the "teachers" of my mandatory yearly sessions.)

I think we need more projects like Traeh's. We need to come together, not once, but many times, to be recognized as a group, and a force against the Mohammedan fantasy of a world Caliphate.

Posted by: Abscedere at December 9, 2007 4:25 PM

For our discouraged friends who see defeat in the cards: My little section of Texas will never surrender! That simply means they will have to kill me first (which they may very well may do with WMD due to our feckless government). But surrender; not an option!

Posted by: TexasInfidel at December 9, 2007 4:26 PM

@3:38 leonthepigfarmer stated:

"the litmus test will be mr savage's impending law suit. if he wins then i see a rainbow on the horizon. if he loses then all of us need to find a really great attorney as they will come for the top leadership down to the most prolific bloggers amongst us."

No doubt, as evidenced the moment Washington hosted it's first Iftar dinner Nov. 2002

from our President's first Iftar dinner speech

Tonight's Iftaar also sends a message to all Americans: our nation is waging a war on a radical network of terrorists, not on a religion and not on a civilization. If we wage this war to defend our principles, we must live up to those principles, ourselves. And one of the deepest commitments of America is tolerance. No one should be treated unkindly because of the color of their skin

or the content of their creed.

No one should be unfairly judged by appearance or ethnic background, or religious faith. We must uphold these values of progress and pluralism and tolerance.

That event, and specifically that particular Presidential pronouncement, by itself, was the beginning of the end of democracy as we know it.

At this point, it is difficult to imagine any '08 candidate capable of addressing this insane perversion of tolerance.

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at December 9, 2007 4:29 PM

heroyalwhyness -

Don't take anything that President Bush says too seriously. He certainly doesn't.

Posted by: Havoc at December 9, 2007 6:14 PM

Truth is that neither Bush nor Savage are the right deliverers. Bush is far too kind to Islam, nothwithstanding his correct assessment that the fetid Middle Eastern swamp must be drained of its innumerable malevolencies, and Savage is far too controversial and impolitic. For now, perhaps Savage will do, but only temporarily. Long term he is not what the West requires so acutely. We need a Tom Tancredo type without Tancredo's built-in rhetorical and PR liabilities. No one yet of this caliber is on the horizon. Parasitical and attitudinal Islam (please excuse the redundancy) is still in the driver's seat. It's not enough to win a round here or there. We need a knockout punch against the world's most awful and deceptive ideology of all time. Savage is at best a tactical victory in the immediate months to come but much more is required. Think long term. Very long term.

Posted by: Wellington at December 9, 2007 7:04 PM

anyone been following the church killings in colorado? 2 separate shooting. men in skull caps, beards. could be your typical emo killer. get ready for a radical revision of the 2nd amendment.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at December 9, 2007 7:29 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4075442.stm

"The Racial and Religious Hated Bill would create a new offence of incitement to religious hatred and would apply to comments made in public or in the media, as well as through written material."

"The maximum penalty for anybody convicted of the new offence would be seven years imprisonment."
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer

Great! Under this law, the Brits could lock up about half the Moslems in Britain.

Posted by: ebonystone at December 9, 2007 8:37 PM

Leon,
I just took a look at some of the web articles about the Colorado shootings. There were two separate incidents, one near Denver, and one in Colorado Springs, with no connection yet made between the two. In one, four people were shot by a gunman, "a white man, possibly with a beard and skullcap", with two killed, and two injured. In the other incident the gunman killed one person, and was then himself killed by a church security guard. This was at one of those mega-churches with thousands of members. The other was at a missionary-training center.
Most revealing were the comments following one of the articles. Most of them were diatribes about the NRA and the "American gun-culture" being the cause of it all, along with a few comments in answer to these. Not a single comment suggesting any relation to terrorism.

Posted by: ebonystone at December 9, 2007 9:29 PM

CAIR Sacramento Director Basim Elkarra's History Of "Not Credible" Death Threat Allegations

By William Mayer

December 8, 2007 - San Francisco, CA - PipeLineNews.org - Despite having caused talk show personality Michael Savage the loss of possibly a million dollars in advertising revenue, as CAIR Sacramento Executive Director Basim Elkarra sees it, he is the real victim in this matter.

Embroiled in a media war against the nationally syndicated talk show host and outspoken critic of radical Islam, Elkarra is now alleging that someone has threatened to kill him.

As quoted in a Sacramento Bee news story, reprinted in the December 6 CAIR news letter, "Elkarra said he met with the FBI in the past two weeks to discuss the threat on his life. Because the investigation is ongoing, Elkarra said he was instructed by the FBI not to publicly discuss into details. FBI spokeswoman Karen Ernst confirmed the FBI received information "regarding an alleged threat" and that the Sacramento field office was investigating."

Despite being told not to talk about the allegations publicly, the story somehow managed to get to the press, with Elkarra raising the ante, stating that the "threat" is related to his legal battle with Savage.

Elkarra is a key player in the action against Savage, coordinating the local effort to muzzle the controversial talk-show host.

At a poorly attended press event held outside of San Francisco radio station KNEW on November 27, Mr. Elkarra castigated Michael Savage for his alleged "hate speech," but in a redux of previous encounters with the organization, refused to condemn the terrorist group HAMAS, specifically and by name, when challenged to do so by this reporter - though he was given ample opportunity.

It is CAIR's record of refusing to condemn Hamas that leads so many to conclude that the "civil rights" group not so secretly is in support of the Palestinian terrorist organization, a fact which renders statements by Elkarra decrying the "hate speech" of others absurd given CAIR's total lack of moral authority.

Mr. Elkarra is no stranger to controversy and neither is the organization which he represents, the Council on American Islamic Relations, which was designated last summer as an unindicted co-conspirator in the ongoing Holy Land Foundation prosecution.

Earlier this year California Senator Barbara Boxer rescinded a "Certificate of Achievement" award given by her office to Elkarra sparking a national uproar.

When questioned about why her office had taken the unprecedented step of rescinding the award to CAIR, Senator Boxer stated that "we made a bad mistake not researching the organization," noting, "CAIR's unwillingness to condemn Osama Bin Laden by name or condemn...Hamas."

The communications director of Boxer's office also cited the cases of Ghassan Elashi [see Ghassan Elashi's Sentencing Proves CAIR's Terror Ties] a founding board member of the Texas branch of CAIR who was sentenced to 80 months in prison for business dealings with Hamas leader Musa abu Marzook, as well as the case of Randal "Ismail" Royer a CAIR communications specialist and civil rights coordinator who was sentenced to 20 for conspiracy to "support Jihad overseas."

During the Boxer dustup Elkarra also adopted the role of victim, claiming that he was subject to death threats. However upon investigation, the FBI deemed his allegations "not credible" according to Senator Boxer's office.

On January 8, 2007 CNN's Paula Zahn stated, "Basim Elkarra says he's received hate mail, including a death threat, since the controversy erupted. Senator Boxer's office tells CNN the FBI has investigated, and the death threat is not credible."

"Not credible" is probably the kindest thing one can say about stealth jihadist Elkarra, whose long history of Islamist activism, his current association with the terror-friendly CAIR and the campaign he has organized to censor Michael Savage, speak to a dark motivation.

Feigned victimhood has become a bedrock component in America's radical Islamic arsenal, claiming that Muslims are the real aggrieved party in the wake of each terrorist attack rather than those who have been forced to suffer the physical brunt of it.

This methodology has allowed groups like CAIR and other Islamist activists such as Dhabah Almontaser, the former principal of Brooklyn's besieged Arabic language school, the Khalil Gibran International Academy, to weave a self-serving narrative based upon trumped up claims of discrimination.

This tactic is employed because it has proven to be effective; accepted uncritically by America's multicultural/diversity obsessed media, to the extent that hard-core Saudi funded Hamas mouthpieces like CAIR are often only identified as "civil rights" groups, when everything they stand for screams radicalism and a desire to incrementally push the society towards Sharia.

Posted by: Roxane at December 10, 2007 12:24 AM

President Bush has been a disaster in office and as Commander-in-Chief. I breathlessly await his retirement.

Posted by: Havoc at December 9, 2007 1:09 PM

Why should president Bush not support Saudi wahhabbis, who have funded Bushs right from daddy Bush's times. Ofcourse daddy returned the favor by protecting his rich wahhabbi friends with tax-dollars and American lives but then, the wahabbis funded son Bush's failed businesses time and again. Why should son Bush not return this wahhabbi favor by:
- Aid to Saudi Arabia.
- Reasing refernces to Saudi from 9/11 interim report.
- Arms to Saudi Arabia.
- Letting Bin Ladens to safety.
- Name Saudi Arabia 'ally against terror'.

Longer Bush stays in white house, more he will please his Saudi masters. American electorate is paying a heavy price of first, electing Bush to white house, then for not impeaching him. You see, Bush has all American resources, including American armed forces at his disposal to please his wahhabbi masters. And wahhabbis, like Bandar (conveniently adopted by Bush family), know that the American president/commander-in-chief is firmly in their back pocket.

Posted by: Alert at December 10, 2007 1:39 AM

The failure and refusal of the West primarily, but not limited to the Left, to confront and condemn Islam is multi-factorial.

First, religious tolerance has become an underpinning value of modern western civilization. Islam being defined as a religion historically requires progressive western thinkers to make every effort to be tolerant. While a 19th century Western position may have been and often was perfectly accepting of the castigation of non-western religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, or Mohammadism; this attitude is now considered unenlightened and archaic. In the past, Islam could be dismissed as a backward failed culture, and there was no contradiction or discomfort with this idea.

The manifest Destiny concept that steered the European Caucasian conquest of North America is now deemed racist and criminal. This evolution of western political philosophy makes it exceedingly difficult for confrontation of Islam despite the threat. Its adherents are members of a religion. We cannot be intolerant. They are mostly ethnically identifiable as Semitic Middle Eastern peoples, primarily Arab. To confront an ethic group is to be racist, a crime in 21st Century America and Europe.

Because of these evolved ideals of modern Western thought, the only recourse for well intentioned members of the media, e.g. New York Times or the Ruling Class: Bush, UK’s Gordon Brown, etc. is to give every benefit of doubt to our enemies in the Islamic World. They are engaged in an, albeit well intentioned, exercise of self deception and wishful thinking. We would have to abandon our cherished values of religious toleration and racial equality to challenge Islam.

The biggest problem is that the Muslim world represents about one fourth of the population of Earth. The Western leaders have to believe that the righteousness of their values must allow peaceful and harmonious coexistence of Islam and the West. Reality is ignored and denied. The alternative is unthinkable.

Posted by: Alek at December 10, 2007 1:56 AM

We need a Tom Tancredo type without Tancredo's built-in rhetorical and PR liabilities.

Posted by: Wellington at December 9, 2007 7:04 PM

Why water down American response to Jihad? Was 9/11 not over-whelming? Was not USS Cole attack a war on America? Has CAIR not intimidated media, Airlines and members of poublic like Andrew Whithead and Michaek Savage? Why this tolerance soft-corner, watered-down (which Islamists see as a weakness) response? Tancredo's response to next attack with attck on Mecca, is appropriat eand just. Anything less from Dar-al-Harb will have little or no (even reverse) effect on Dar-al-Islam, if you see the overall picture. On the other hand I can see why Americans feel like holding back in face of a relentless Jihad. Perhaps Americans have tied their own hands, in tying Israeli hands against Palestinian Jihad.

Tancredo has stood firm consistently against Jihad. That he has little or no support is a reflection on rest of America, who find Tom Tancredo too "controversial" in his "ante" while responding to blood-thirsty barbaric Jihadis. Even if Americans fo not have the stomach to fiyght back hard, they would do well to support Tom who has the clarity and courage to do the right thing for America:
http://www.teamtancredo.typepad.com

Posted by: Alert at December 10, 2007 2:02 AM

I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if CAIR tried to sue the USA for the Islamophobia that caused the 9/11 hijackers to go on a Inner-Struggle and express themselves via a mass-Slaughter of Civilians on US soil once they travelled to the USA .

But keep in mind that CAIR remained pretty silence over the Teddy Bear prison sentence and the flogging of a rape victim in Saudi Arabia
under Sharia law which Hooper now endorses by the deafening silence when he should have Condemned it.

Posted by: ala-sux at December 10, 2007 7:50 AM

ATTN: MICHAEL SAVAGE FANS !!

ROBERT SPENCER ON MICHAEL SAVAGE SHOW!!!!

Click on Mike Savage radio archive link below and go to Dec 7 show (its free):

To fans of Robert Spencer and Mike Savage (famous radio host) this is a must listen!

Robert appeared on the show to discuss CAIR and why CAIR is trying to attack Michael. Robert expressed how it was a pleasure to appear on Mr Savages show and states it is an honor to speak with Mr Savage. Obviously Robert Spencer appreciates and likes Michael Savage (as do countless conservatives who are not necessarily republican or not).

Robert talks about how he tried to contact Hooper of CAIR in 2003 to respond to various statments that are said of CAIR all the time but hooper just hung up on Mr Spencer!

Anyway you can listen to the Dec 7, 2007 Michael Savage show free here (the Spencer interview starts after 1:33 of 1:52 hour show):

http://www.talkradionetwork.com/premiumstream?dispid=304&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD0yODY4JnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0JmNoYXJ0SUQ9MzA0JnBsYXlsaXN0U2l6ZT0xMA==

Robert Spencer has appeared many times before on the Michael Savage show (he lists it on his bio of appearances here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/spencer/ ) but this time Spencer was asked to muse as to why CAIR is attacking Michael Savage personally (Savage is currently suing CAIR) and Mr Spencer talks of how Hooper of CAIR has said misleading statements about him in the past on CNN etc.

-----
I reposted the above since its so appropos to the topic.

I hope Robert Spencer appears again on Savages show and I hope you are on Dennis Pragers show again as well. Savage, Spencer and others like them have consistently covered the doings of "radical" islam-- keep up the fight!!

Posted by: Yankee_boy at December 10, 2007 11:03 AM

Bottom Line...
http://www.aim.org/aim_column/5982_0_3_0_C/
'nuf sed

Posted by: jcom972 at December 14, 2007 7:53 PM