The termination of Stephen Coughlin on the Joint Staff is an act of intellectual cowardice.

Intellectual cowardice is the end result of political correctness. It is a perfect description of the WOT. The refusal to call a spade a spade will do us in.

Whatever happened to the president who said: you're either with us or you're against us?

Posted by: PMK at January 5, 2008 1:55 PM

Methinks the firing of Mr. Coughlin was in actuality a breakdown of the separation of the Church and state in America. Militant Muslims have almost certainly infiltrated the ranks of the Pentagon (by stealth) and forced this (ghastly) decision upon us.

It appears now that separation of Church and state in America has mutated into separation of Church and State With Militant Islam Onboard.

As for the 'cowardice' thing involved, that is what most of us have come to expect from Bush and Company these days, sad to say.

Posted by: pythagoras at January 5, 2008 1:58 PM

"The termination of Stephen Coughlin on the Joint Staff is an act of intellectual cowardice"

Wrong ,it was trickle down policy from the top.

It's the leadership stupid !

"Here we are concerned about Obama when we already have a stealth Moslem in the White House caught holding hands with the Saudi Wahabbi King and complete with Ramadan dinners and stealing infidel's land in Israel and giving it gratis to the front line Islamic terrorist's, aka 'the Palestinian's'

Bush's visit to Israel is more than a photo op.
Olmert told Bush he could not begin the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their homes and land in Judea and Samaria on his own .
He needed the smiling and sweet face of George to kick things off for his Road Map peace,death of Israel ,dar al Islam plan.
George is coming to kill you slowly with his smile and sincere efforts for Islam ,his new found religion.
The President is sure his smile will seduce you to leave your land for his islamic terrorist Palestinian state.
Gaza went to Hamastan without a fight and so Judea & Samaria are next

Posted by: rocketman at January 5, 2008 1:58 PM

LTC Myers is on the mark. The military doesn't have the luxury of PC. The fact that Mr. Coughlin was right about a very politically touchy subject was no excuse for his dismissal. There was never an outreach program for the communists, why for the islamists, jihadists, or terrorists.(or whatever term you choose to use) From what I understand there has been a huge outcry by many officers such as LTC Myers. Hopefully someone will listen to them. But I'm not holding much hope with the current crop of generals overall. They seem to be more concerned with not rocking the boat, thus preserving their careers, than closing a massive hole in mililtary doctrine. Where are the Billy Mitchell's? The Claire Chenault's? The John Boyd's? These were just some of the men who were willing to sacrifice their careers to adjust the thinking of the top brass of their day.

Posted by: Kevin at January 5, 2008 2:13 PM

Subject: Hooray for Michigan State

The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical
engineering professor named Indrek Wichman. Wichman sent an e-mail to
the Muslim Student's Association. The e-mail was in response to the
students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet
Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were
"hate speech."

Enter Professor Wichman.

In his e-mail, he said the following:

Dear Muslim Association:

As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to
protest your protest. I am offended not by cartoons, but by more
mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on
public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the
latest in Turkey ), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of
Coptic Christians in Egypt , the imposition of Sharia law on
non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called
"whores" in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and
the rioting and looting in Paris France.

This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many,
many of my colleagues. I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal,
and uncivilized slave-trading Muslims to be very aware of this as you
proceed with your infantile "protests."

If you do not like the values of the West - see the First Amendment
-- you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose
that option.

Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up
yourselves instead of troubling Americans.

Cordially,

I. S. Wichman Professor of Mechanical Engineering

As you can imagine, the Muslim group at the university didn't
like this too well. They're demanding that Wichman be reprimanded
and the university impose mandatory diversity training for faculty and
mandate a seminar on hate and discrimination for all freshmen.

Now the local chapter of CAIR has jumped into the fray. CAIR, the
Council on American-Islamic Relations, apparently doesn't believe
that the good professor had the right to express his opinion. For its
part, the university is standing its ground in support of Professor
Wichman , saying the e-mail was private, and they don't intend to
publicly condemn his remarks.

Posted by: old fogey at January 5, 2008 2:25 PM

Hooray for Professor Wichman!

I intend to e-mail him with my support for his courage, and also the President of MSU. Is this MSU in Kalamazoo? Well, I'll find out.

Posted by: darcy at January 5, 2008 2:36 PM

Don't confuse cowardliness with a willful surrender to Islam.

Posted by: GrennBeck at January 5, 2008 2:37 PM

Kudos to the Pentagon for firing Coughlin. Christian extremists aren't any better than Muslim extremists. If we want to end Jihadi Terrorism, we need to stop doing the things that drive moderate Muslims towards Jihadi ideology.

And shame on LTC Meyers for contributing to the anti-Islam prejudice that is so counterproductive to the Long War. Thank God he's retired.

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 2:40 PM

Kudos to the Pentagon for firing Coughlin. Christian extremists aren't any better than Muslim extremists. If we want to end Jihadi Terrorism, we need to stop doing the things that drive moderate Muslims towards Jihadi ideology.

And shame on LTC Meyers for contributing to the anti-Islam prejudice that is so counterproductive to the Long War. Thank God he's retired.

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 2:40 PM

OT This was at LGF.

Interesting. Saudi visas

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=284342404135305

Posted by: Borg at January 5, 2008 2:47 PM

Jeffrey;
Just because a muslim accuses a person of being a christian extremist doesn't make him one. What information do you have that there was anything religious in the report that was so strenuously objected to.

Posted by: old fogey at January 5, 2008 2:52 PM

If the pentagon brass have chosen to put up a protective shield for Islam then we are most assuredly in deep trouble.

The Pentagon apparently insists on staying with the ridiculous notion and myth that Islam is a "religon of peace".

And as Coughlin stated so well, "it is in fact a logical flaw under any professional research methodology...you have stated the conclusion before you have done the analysis."

Another analogy might be " would a police officer put his gun down before he has completely assessed and understood the threat?

What is it that continues to be part of our achilles tendon? We are afraid to confront the real source that drives the Islamists for fear of offending Muslims, foolishly making the tenants of the Qu'ran and the hadiths that promote warfare againt the unbelievers off limits under the umbrella of multiculturalism.It is pretty bad,if not pitifully disgusting that thousands of seemingly bright military heads fail to recognize the enemy within, let alone the enemy on the battlefield.

Posted by: Mackie at January 5, 2008 2:56 PM

The saddest thing is that, even after 1,400 years of Islamic conquest, we are still busy as beavers writing books about it. Perhaps that is Islam's greatest triumph.

Because we refuse to strip Islam of its title of Religion, we can only endlessly argue against it while begrudgingly conceding to it transcendent qualities reserved and revered by our culture. Qualities that, by our cultural conditioning, protect Islam from cold examination. Islam, we have been told is a great monotheistic faith. We swallowed the lie and have been trying to puke it back up ever since.

Someday, I hope, we will examine this ancient foe in a less religious light.

Posted by: mike trivisonno at January 5, 2008 2:57 PM

The American MILITARY has gone PC! This is a big deal and a dangerous deal. How blind we are!

As is often true, the only voices of clarity are on the American right. Here's an entry from the Corner:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Y2QzNWYxZThlOTQ4YTBmYzYyNmUzOTQ4MmUzM2M5NDc=

Posted by: StillBreathing at January 5, 2008 3:00 PM

Mr. Carr:

Perusing your blog, I find this exhortation to chase after the chimera of "moderate Muslims":

"We must enlist the aid of moderate Muslims to defeat the Jihadists, and to accomplish that, we must demonstrate that changes are being made. The firing of an ideological extremist like Stephen Coughlin sends the right kind of message to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan who are not our enemies, and simply want the same things that we do - the freedom to live and worship in peace."

But I fail to find a single reference to the elements of the Qur'an, ahadith, tasfir, or sira the jihadists have consistently cited to make their case and expand their ranks, from Hasan al-Banna and his original circle of six Egyptian laborers down to the present day. Moreover, sites such as this one, which do subject such Islamic texts to analysis and criticism and document their baleful effects, are anathematized as "rightwing blogs."

This seems to indicate that you, like the DoD as described in Bill Gertz's report, hold "analysis of Muslim religious tenets" to be "a politically taboo subject area" -- which, I submit, makes you not only part of the problem but an "ideological extremist" in your own right.

Posted by: Papa Whiskey at January 5, 2008 3:16 PM

Attention Jeffrey Carr:

All Christians are bound to obey the 10 Commandments which include "thou shalt not kill."

"Extreme" or not.

Islam teaches quite the opposite: "Wneh the forbudden months have pased, slay the infidels everywhere they are found..."

Your "point" is worthless and bogus.

Posted by: pythagoras at January 5, 2008 3:26 PM

We have a Commander in Chief who doesn't know a wahabbi froma wabbit. I do not regret voting for that man; the alternatives were too unpalatable. I probably will not vote this time for the first time since the mid term election in 1970. I did not vote in 1968 for the same reason that I will avoid this one. I could not stand Nixon or Humphrey.

If I do manage to accidently find myself in a voting booth, I don't think I can muster the moxie to vote for a president.

Posted by: Pelayo at January 5, 2008 3:26 PM

You give a monkey a blog, and what do you get?

Posted by: Pelayo at January 5, 2008 3:29 PM

"Kudos to the Pentagon for firing Coughlin. Christian extremists aren't any better than Muslim extremists. If we want to end Jihadi Terrorism, we need to stop doing the things that drive moderate Muslims towards Jihadi ideology.

And shame on LTC Meyers for contributing to the anti-Islam prejudice that is so counterproductive to the Long War. Thank God he's retired." by Jeffrey Carr

Mr. Carr,

I'm trying to to understand the logic of that statement. Does that mean that in the 7th century, when Muhammad told his followers that Allah told them to slay the unbelievers where they found them, that it was Christians and Jews that were responsible for the jihad? And for pointing out the sources of the injunctions to jihad in the Qur'an and in Hadith and Sharia Law, Mr. Coughlin qualifies for the descriptor of "Christian extremist"?

Could you clarify and qualify your statements, or is it sufficient that you've done all you've intended to accomplish, by dropping in, making a statement, and then running away?

I think if you could demonstrate some grasp of the facts of this case, rather than content yourself with political invective, you might be taken seriously and contribute something the discussion.

We await your further response.

Posted by: FredIsinglass at January 5, 2008 3:35 PM

This sad episode bespeaks to a major problem and that is the extraordinary reluctance to consider that a major religion can be so flawed that it is a threat to freedom, the Constitution and our way of life. Most folks here in America still can't bring themselves to consider the possibility that Islam is as much a totalitarian ideology as is Marxism or fascism. It hides behind its religious veil very, very effectively.

All this must change as we move into the future. We will need leaders who, to begin with, say nothing good about Islam and then eventually, I am convinced, we will need leaders who condemn it. And we had better move to complete energy independence before such condemnation occurs or otherwise we will experience economic meltdown. Much remains to be done as America faces yet another totalitarian monster (yes, I think "monster" is the right word), one that is arguably the most menacing and deceptive of all time.

And again I must write what a burden to the entire world the Islamic faith is. How I wish it didn't exist. But it does and it is a mortal threat to democracy, truth, justice, freedom, tolerance and a whole host of other wonderful and good things. Damn Mohammed. Damn him for all time.

Posted by: Wellington at January 5, 2008 3:38 PM

Jeffery Carr, are you blind too?
http://foehammer.net/zenphoto/war-posters-by-others/image/blind.jpg

You use the Christians are just as bad argument, prove it.
/no using McVeigh, no bombing abortion clinics

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 5, 2008 3:40 PM

Hooray for Professor Wichman!

I intend to e-mail him with my support for his courage, and also the President of MSU. Is this MSU in Kalamazoo? Well, I'll find out.

Posted by: darcy at January 5, 2008 2:36 PM

It's MSU in East Lansing, and this Wichman thing is from February 2006! You can research it on the 'net, and also read a Frontpage Magazine article about it.

Posted by: darcy at January 5, 2008 3:40 PM

Someday, I hope, we will examine this ancient foe in a less religious light. mike trivisonno


Mr. Trivisonno: That is not possible because it's origin is a religious origin and not political, social or cultural.


The King James version of the Bible states clearly in Genesis chapters 16, 17, and 18 that Abraham was God's chosen one to be the father of many nations out of which came the Jewish people. Then, at the beginning of the dispensation of Grace, Christianity became God's chosen people as well. Abraham had a covenant with God (Gen. 17:2). Abraham was married to Sarah and they were, at first, childless. Sarah told him to go into her bondwoman, Hagar, so that he might father a child by her. When Hagar's baby was born he was named Ishmael. Ishmael was to be a wild man; his hand against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren (Gen. 16). Then Abraham fathered a son by Sarah and called him Isaac. Genesis 17 very plainly states that God had an everlasting covenant with Isaac and not Ishmael. Hence, the enmity between the Jewish people/Christians and the Muslims (Ishmael's decendents).


I realize my comment is extremely abbreviated and will cause many questions. To explain this in more depth would require a substantial amount of time and space which is not available here.


I encourage people to search the scriptures and study them. The Bible is where we will learn how to deal with Islam in an appropriate manner.

Posted by: Larry L. Sharp at January 5, 2008 3:43 PM

"If we want to end Jihadi Terrorism, we need to stop doing the things that drive moderate Muslims towards Jihadi ideology." --posted by Jeffrey Carr

What? You cannot be serious! Oh, it's all our fault, eh? Which are you, 1. Brainwashed, 2. Stupid? Because it's one or the other.

Posted by: darcy at January 5, 2008 3:46 PM

darcy, he's an American Leftist. Just something different in their brains.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 5, 2008 3:51 PM

Jeffrey Carr: I would ask you the following: What if Thomas Jefferson, who referred to the Koran as "demonic," and Arthur Schopenhauer, who described Islam as "that despicable doctrine," and Bertrand Russell, who asserted that Islam was the one major faith that was totalitarian in structure, and Winston Churchill, who characterized Islam as the strongest retrograde force in the world, were all correct? Don't you see that you are proceeding on the major assumption that Islam itself is OK, it's just that some of its adherents are objectionable? What if all of Islam is rotten to the core in a way no other world religion is? Or are you so certain of your position that you can just dismiss the likes of those who post here at JW, along with the major historical personages I mentioned above?

Posted by: Wellington at January 5, 2008 3:54 PM

All JW Readers,

I have contacted my senator -- the same senator to whom I mailed Robert's latest book and a related DVD -- about this issue.

I requested that he look into the matter.

I mentioned that allegedly, Mr. Couglin was called a Christian zealot (perhaps by Hasham Islam).

I went on to point out ... since when does name-calling trump honest debate in settling professional disagreements? (Just imagine if another party was referred to as a Muslim extremist.)

Please contact your senator, congressman/woman, an any and all elected officials you know. Let them understand how you feel about this issue.

Let's take a united stand before it's too late.

Thanks,

Posted by: LoneRanger at January 5, 2008 4:04 PM

Wellington;
There is an excellent article in the latest Scientific American describing how we could be energy independent of foriegn oil. It would take a massive effort, but it is possible. If we even threaten to do it, the price of oil will come down. If we succeed, we take away the trillions of dollars that support them and they will sink to there level of incompetence. Look at Iraq. They have plenty of oil but after the west left, there was no maintainance of the fields. The entire projected cost is less than we have spent in Iraq an Afghanistan.

Posted by: old fogey at January 5, 2008 4:04 PM

I honestly believe that Mr. Coughlin is a casualty of the wishes of people much higher up the food chain than Secretary England. That being the case, there is not a chance that this decision would be reversed, since it probably involves tremendous diplomatic pressure being put upon the Bush administration by the Arab nations. We see the fingerprints of this pressure all over how the State Department is solicitous of Arab/Muslim causes. I am absolutely certain that the things that the President says about Islam are fed to him by his State Department and NSC handlers, as this man does not typically utter much in the way of original and brave thoughts. By the way, I am not politically predisposed to this kind of criticism of the President. I voted for him in '04. The alternative was much worse.

I am convinced that the Saudis are engaging in a full court press to reverse the gains that have been made, meager though they be, in the general public learning about what Islam is really about. The money is flowing in to their political and academic whores, who will do this dirty work with zealous shamelessness, by people like John Esposito and Karen Hughes. But, there is only so much damage they can do, because the truth will win out eventually. And they don't have the truth on their side. Just lots and lots of money.

Posted by: FredIsinglass at January 5, 2008 4:16 PM

Jeffrey Carr

Prior to making feel good politically correct concessions to so called "moderate muslims" we must have a clear understanding of what constitutes islam so we can define with accuracy the term 'moderate'. The term 'moderate' is meaningless without context. Or perhaps "moderate" suicide is ok with you too.

Feh.

***********
Over at Dr. Bostoms blog, he covers this topic and adds in the comments section the following details:

Comment from a current Army LTC who has participated in one of Coughlin’s seminars:

MAJ (USAR) Stephen Coughlin is to my knowledge the only Islamic Law scholar on the Joint Staff…

The ONLY Islamic Law scholar in the Joint Staff?
Say it isn't so!

From the posted article above . . .LTC Joseph C. Myers also mentions he was once a Cadet at West Point, which reminds me of the discussion here at JW/DW regarding General Vines severely lacking reading list.

This deliberate ignorance saturating every level of security is beyond alarming.

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at January 5, 2008 4:20 PM

One of the clearest, best, and most important statements ever posted up here -- or postedanywhere -- about the failure of the American government, and the Bush Administration, to begin to think and reason clearly about what it must do if it is to understand the world-wide, long-term, even permanent, threat of Jihad.

This statement by LTC Myers saddens, and stirs, and infuriates. One is saddened, stirred, infuriated, that such a piece had to be written, by an American military man, in order to denounce the stupid and cruel and dangerous decision to fire Stephen Coughlin (oh, sorry: not to fire, but "not to renew his contract), leaving us at the beginning of a very long, likely endless (but manageable, if we come to our senses in time) conflict, that one of the very few people who understands the matter, Stephen Coughlin, is shortly to be out of the Pentagon, while one Hasham Islam (and who knows how many others like him) sits contentedly in his office, just down the hall, no doubt, from his supposed boss and puppet, Deputy Secretary of Defense Gordon England.

Meanwhile, the incoherence and the squandering of men, money, and materiel, the sheer stupidity about doctrine, the timidity about learning too much that in turn might require taking steps that people don't know how to articulate or explain (because they are ignorant, and mentally lazy, and have been for decades), the rigidity (not wishing to figure out how a situation -- for example Iraq -- can be made to work to our advantage if we only are willing to ruthlessly exploit the Camp of Islam's pre-existing divisions, rather than attempt naive and sentimental feelgood missions based on the assumption that "democracy" is transplantable, that the very word "freedom" means the same thing to "ordinary [Muslim] moms and dads" in the Middle East as it does, say, to those who attend caucuses in Iowa or New Hampshire or in any other of the remaining forty-eight, and that surely "prosperity" and "freedom" will somehow -- the "how" of that "somehow" is never stated, never explained -- lessen the threat that comes from the doctrine of Jihad, and from Muslims all over the world, some ruling the states of Iran and Saudi Arabia, some breeding rapidly in the historic heart of the West, and some simply content to say and do very little, but in the end they will go along, as they must, for so it is written, in Qur'an, and Hadith, and Sira.

I wrote above that the piece saddens, and stirs, and infuriates. Mostly, right now. It stirs. It stirs one to be implacable in one's disgust at those who have misunderstood so much, and been so lazy in their misuunderstanding, and have made other men pay, some like you and I mere taxpayers shelling out our share for that trillion-dollar continuing folly in Iraq, and some with their lives, like the two American soldiers killed by an Iraqi soldier supposedly fighting with them -- despite the official line, this is not the first time it has happened in Iraq -- for a goal that is unattainable and that in any case, from the Infidel point of view, makes no sense.

Rage and disgust should not get in the way of ice-cold analysis. But keep track of those whose stupidity, rigidity, timidity, and cupidity (all those who, of all parties, have been the recipients in ways direct and indirect, of Saudi, Kuwaiti, Emiratian, and other Muslim Arab largesse for so many years, as this country failed to come up with either a foreign policy, or an energy policy, over the past thirty years that might have made sense, because it would have been based on a clear-eyed understandinig of Islam.

We can't take much more of these fools. The army, losing its young officers, can't. The civilians, forced to spend hundreds of billions unnecessarily every year, can't. The country, forced to endure the continued in-migration of hundreds of thousands of Muslims who are apparently flooding in without a single attempt to do the obvious: halt all Muslim migration, and help support those in Europe who wish to do the same thing, because Western Europe is even further along the road of decay and disarray, if such were possible, than such decisions as the firing of Stephen Coughlin demonstrate is the case here.

Rage however you wish. But rage.

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 4:23 PM

Perhaps the yanks are thinking: If we close our eyes: Block our ears: Render Islam unmentionable: and genuinely know nothing about its ideology, it might all just go away!!!. My apologies, thats already the tried and tested European view. It seems the yanks are just sheep following!!!.

Posted by: U.K. TODAY. at January 5, 2008 4:40 PM

Perhaps the yanks are thinking: If we close our eyes: Block our ears: Render Islam unmentionable: and genuinely know nothing about its ideology, it might all just go away!!!. My apologies, thats already the tried and tested European view. It seems the yanks are just sheep following!!!.

Posted by: U.K. TODAY. at January 5, 2008 4:42 PM

I'm afraid Islam is just too subtle for many people to grasp. In contrast, the ideology of racial superiority is is as clear as it is stupid and offensive and the ideology of goverment ownership of the means of production is as clear as it is undemocratic and unworkable. But the ideology of Jihad and Islamic supremacism is hidden in a welter of confusing and often self-contractictory mumbo-jumbo. Plus, it's a religion, not just a political agenda.
It really needs to be studied to be understood, and who has the time or patience for that? And even if they do, there's always enough wiggle room to give it the benefit of any doubt.
Luckily, the jihadis themselves seem to be doing a pretty good job at instructing the general public.

Posted by: jewdog at January 5, 2008 4:44 PM

The effort to get the "truth" out will be like climbing Mt. Everest. With MSM continuing the Multi-Cultural, PC,Social Engineered Brainwashing that has been going on for the last 20 years or more.

This Jeffery Clown is a classic example of what the West is up against. For He will certainly believe he deserved his head being sawed off when they get around to him.

Just a little more dialog, a touch more understanding, a pinch more of consideration, an extra sensitivity class, If I had only fetched my Masters Boots.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at January 5, 2008 4:50 PM

My reason for commending the Pentagon for firing Coughlin is because his views are counterproductive. We cannot win the Long War as long as we do nothing about stemming or stopping the radicalization of moderate Muslims, and, more importantly, identifying how U.S. actions are contributing to that radicalization. This is no different than DOD efforts to devise an effective COIN strategy, which eventually General Petraeus did. Now we need to do the same for the Jihadi movement, and both the IC and the Pentagon appear to understand that.

I write about this in detail, fully referenced, here:

http://idolator.typepad.com/intelfusion/2008/01/how-to-defeat-1.html

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 4:54 PM

My reason for commending the Pentagon for firing Coughlin is because his views are counterproductive. We cannot win the Long War as long as we do nothing about stemming or stopping the radicalization of moderate Muslims, and, more importantly, identifying how U.S. actions are contributing to that radicalization. This is no different than DOD efforts to devise an effective COIN strategy, which eventually General Petraeus did. Now we need to do the same for the Jihadi movement, and both the IC and the Pentagon appear to understand that.

I write about this in detail, fully referenced, here:

http://idolator.typepad.com/intelfusion/2008/01/how-to-defeat-1.html

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 4:55 PM

My reason for commending the Pentagon for firing Coughlin is because his views are counterproductive. We cannot win the Long War as long as we do nothing about stemming or stopping the radicalization of moderate Muslims, and, more importantly, identifying how U.S. actions are contributing to that radicalization. This is no different than DOD efforts to devise an effective COIN strategy, which eventually General Petraeus did. Now we need to do the same for the Jihadi movement, and both the IC and the Pentagon appear to understand that.

I write about this in detail, fully referenced, here:

http://idolator.typepad.com/intelfusion/2008/01/how-to-defeat-1.html

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 4:56 PM

Sorry for the multiple posts. My Firefox browser appears to be running amuck. Whoever has admin authority for this blog, please delete my duplicates ASAP.

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 5:00 PM

What Jeffery Carr complacently, and ignorantly, and pie-in-the-skyly, thinks of as the "Jihadist movement" is merely orthodox Islam.

Here's an idea. Let's arrange a debate. On one side, the quite-absurdly-self-assured jeffery-carrs of this world. On the other, two kinds of people: non-Muslims, such as Coughlin and Spencer and Bostom who know the texts of Islam, and know them well, and ex-Muslims, such as Wafa Sultan, Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who were born and raised within the world of Islam, and know exactly the tenets, the attitudes, the atmospherics of Islam, and are articulate enough, in English, to explain them.

Tape that marathon session. Show it to every officer and man in the American military, and to every member of Congress. For a start.

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 5:01 PM

If Carr wishes to stop the "radicalization of the moderate Muslims" he should first tell us how he defines a "moderate Muslim." And before he does that, I insist that he read "Ten Things To Think When Thinking About Muslim Moderates." And takes it in.

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 5:04 PM

Mr Carr, One has to be patient if there is a lot of traffic on a particular thread, I believe that the only time that a double posting can occur is if the commenter presses the POST button twice. Before I preview or post a comment, I highlight that comment and copy it to the clipboard, just in case it gets lost. If the screen takes too long to refresh automatically, I try the refresh button on the browser.

Posted by: Pelayo at January 5, 2008 5:14 PM

Thanks, Pelayo. I discovered that while waiting for my browser to complete the post, if I opened another window and checked - I could see that my reply had already posted. I'm confident that I'll be able to avoid multiple postings in the future. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 5:19 PM

By Scott Stearns
White House
05 January 2008

President Bush travels to the Middle East in the coming week in hopes of urging U.S. allies in the region to support Israeli-Palestinian peace talks...."

....To give the land of Israel to Israel's enemies.... to establish a Palestinian terrorist / jihadist state in the Holy Land.....

Gen 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."......The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land."

Posted by: monk at January 5, 2008 5:20 PM

Jeffrey Carr: I too am for working with moderate Muslims against radicals but that doesn't mean that Islam is a good religion just because of that. It might be (I sincerely doubt it to put it mildly), but what if Islam is indeed rotten to the core in a way no other religion is? Or do you not concede this possibility?

You see, I don't think there is such a thing as a good Islam, but only a watered-down version of the real thing, which demands, among other things, that Sharia replace all constitutions and legal systems of every country on earth and requires death for any Muslim who leaves Islam for another religion. What other faith has these features?

Let me put it another way. Unlike any other religious creed, Islam has been, is, and always will be a death cult for a certain percentage of Muslims when they don't get their way. Oh, and by the way, Islam is the only religion founded by a truly brutal human being, who ordered thousands killed, unlike, say, Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster or Lao-tzu, who ordered no one terminated. Islam, sir, is not just another religion and that is why I don't want to see mosque after mosque rise up across the American landscape. Or do you not care that such structures begin to appear everywhere in this nation?

Posted by: Wellington at January 5, 2008 5:36 PM

From their website:

Air University
The Intellectual and Leadership Center of The Air Force
We make a difference...one student at a time!

Welcome to the Air Command and Staff College.
Our Mission:
Prepare Warriors to Lead Air, Space and Cyberspace Forces in Joint/Combined Operations.

This military 'university', is not just for officers, but for senior NCO's, too.

Now, just because the USAF has not incorporated academic study of Islam into it's curriculum, what about the university's library?

Checking the catalog, at:

https://catalog.au.af.mil/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First

one should note the books on Islam that are available for checkout:

https://catalog.au.af.mil/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=islam&Search_Code=FT*&PID=ax1akgOupid-mEf_hApQ3V6_myEEK&SEQ=20080105152052&CNT=20&HIST=1

which includes this title/author:

Onward Muslim soldiers : how jihad still threatens America and the West / Robert Spencer. Spencer, Robert, 1962- 2003
Location: Fairchild Bookstacks Call Number: 297.72 S745o Status: Not Checked Out

Similar books are undoubtedly available at U.S. military base/post exchange facilities around the world, and base/post libraries, too.

And let's be honest, one can even access the internet, and JW/DW, in ships at sea.

If military personnel really are ignorant about Islam, it's not because they don't have access to the facts.

Note: Here's a previous JW article about LTCOL Meyers: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011960.php

And, no Colonel, "Islam is a religion of peace" is not fine for public policy statements.

No amount of misinformation is fine.

Posted by: PRCS at January 5, 2008 5:40 PM

Please Mr. Carr, let's get things in the right order:
1) Study and understand Islam thoroughly.
2) Step one should make it obvious that Islam is a violent, supremacist ideology and that therefore, moderate Muslims deviate from Islamic doctrine.
3) Establish a strategy for dealing with all Muslims based on the previous two steps.
The above process should make it clear that Islam itself is a much bigger problem than our response to it. Firing Mr. Coughlin shows that this process is not being followed.

Posted by: jewdog at January 5, 2008 5:46 PM

Jeffrey Carr:

Point out those moderate Muslims that you keep talking about. The Muslims that are truly moderate have long ago disagreed with the Islamist movement, Do we not forget that it was American Muslims that incouraged our government to extracate Saddam Hussein from his despotic perch. as well as assisting in the Balkins against the Serbs in defense of Muslims --but what did it get us, after all we are still infidels,and unbelievers.

The left leaning, and liberal line that continuously worries that we our making more enemies in the Islamic world is a tired line and speaks from position of weakness of which the likes of Osama Bin Laden had hoped to count on.

Step forward Jeffrey Carr and debate others who have studied the make up of Islam for nearly 30 years such as Robert Spencer, come tell Ayaan Hirsi how we should respond, tell Wafi Sultan how we should respond, Come and have a dialogue with Ibn Warraq, and tell Bat Yeor she should have just Ignored what has happened to Europe over the last 35 years.

"Once again you cannot defeat your enemy if you cannot define him"

General Douglas MacArthur

And that is what Stephen Coughlin was doing.

Posted by: Mackie at January 5, 2008 5:50 PM

Wellington, whether or not Islam is a "good" religion is not the issue that I'm addressing, nor is it relevant in evaluating an effective strategy to fight the Jihadi terror movement. If you feel strongly that Muslims should convert to a different religion, then by all means become a missionary to the Muslim people and speak of the benefits of conversion.

If, on the other hand, you want to defeat a distributed network of terror cells, fueled by a radical ideological position, you need a multi-faceted approach, and part of that approach must include cutting off their supply of recruits by enlisting the help of moderate Muslims to convince other Muslims who may be on the edge or already involved in one of the 4 stages of the radicalization process, that they have options other than joining the Jihad.

This has the best chance of success if it's done by Muslims to other Muslims, not by Christians to Muslims.

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 5:52 PM

Previous article by LTC Joseph Myers to which a link is given in a posting above, is now posted in full here:

Regarding the National Defense University's recommendation that we all pretend that the global jihad is not a jihad, and hope that thereby it will go away, Greg Allen, on whose Right Balance radio show I have had the honor of appearing many, many times, has kindly passed on to me this memo from LTC Joseph C. Myers, Senior Army Advisor at Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell AFB.

"I tend to disagree with this article [an article on why the American government should carefully avoid using the word "Jihad" and instead use the word "Hirabah"]:

I understand our desire to de-legitimize the "jihadist" as part of our CIST objectives; but we should not fall into the trap of failing to understand ourselves the exegesis of "jihad" in theory and practice. True, jihad does not translate to “Holy War” but that is also irrelevant and moot. War is either “just” or “unjust” in Islam and jihad to be “just” must be fought for the ends of God and Islam. Even Muslim texts do not accept this artificial debate, I suggest you find a copy of the Reliance of the Traveller, the first English translation of Sharia Law in print at your local library and go to the index, look up jihad -— re-indexed to “Holy War.”
Jihad does mean in the classic Islamic texts “striving;” striving in the context of war, not in the context of individual spiritual growth...that is a later adaptation brought by Shia and Sufi scholars, the influence of ascetics, around the turn of the last millennium as Islam struggled with schism and the Moghul invasion. Its original meaning was associated with warfare and that meaning has never been rejected or renounced as invalid, it was merely added upon with the concept of “greater jihad.”

...While that term itself, becoming more spiritually prepared as an individual Muslim is associated with spiritual growth and non-violence, it also has applicability with becoming more spiritually prepared for combat: “jihad” and “shahada.” Recall Mohammed Atta’s “Last Night” preparations...which was for him and the other 9-11 jihadis a lengthy process of spiritual preparation for their martyrdom.

The resurgent global “jihad” in all its forms [including the bust in Miami yesterday] is based on classical readings of the Quran with mujahids willing to take up the sword for “dawa,” the proclamation and propagation of Islam.

Finally, if the thesis below were accurate then these would, in fact, be the terms used by Muslim scholars themselves (over 1400 years of written texts) with respect to this “theme” in theory and practice including the term “jahidu” (combat), but that is not the case. The scholarly texts discuss war “in the path of Allah” as “jihad.”

One can appreciate these modern Muslim scholars attempting to discredit the ideology of groups like al-Qaida, but before we latch on to these modern “vernaculars” we must make sure we fully understand the terms of reference denotatively and connotatively and historically as Muslims have understood them; not as part of a Western Strategic Communication campaign.

...In my humble opinion we still have not done our homework.

We are dealing with “classicists,” not “extremists.”

[Posted by Robert at June 23, 2006]

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 5:54 PM

Jeffrey Carr

You say Coughlin's views are counterproductive, but yet you want to stop the radicalization of moderate muslims. Coughlin's work emphasizes on the result of muslims that have already been radicalized. They've already gone way beyond the point your trying to make.

His work is also to bring into view the subversive activities by Islamic foreign agents who have radicalized muslim americans through religious teachings which all of us here are aware of happen every day at mosques here in the US and throughout the world.

The reason he was fired is because he knows the truth and the Islamics on staff at the
DOD can't handle the truth nor can they afford any one at the DOD to listen to Coughlin. The Pentagon should not be commended, they should be investigated.

Posted by: gaelen at January 5, 2008 6:03 PM

Our damned alliance with the "moderate" Iraqi government, which is really an Iranian ally, is what is at the root of this whole mess. Instead of having a proper strategy of purging Islam and working with a secular government, or keeping out of things altogether, we have hinged everything on those nudniks in Baghdad. That's caused all this moderate Muslim nonsense to take on such exagerated significance. You know, if you marry a whore, you're not going to make her a lady.

Posted by: jewdog at January 5, 2008 6:22 PM

This is the same US military that embraced bin Laden's right-hand man, Ali Mohamed, an Egyptian so-called "American", gave him top-secret clearance and had him lecture US Army Special Forces in Fort Bragg on Islam and "Middle-Eastern culture".
And the US Central Command at Fort MacDill in Tampa Florida, which is in charge of "war on terrorism", invited Ramadan Shallah, the top leader of the genocidal Islamic Jihad to lecture them!
No wonder the all-pervasive cowardice of our society now spreading throughout the top brass of the US military.
December 20, 1998: bin Laden is known to sleep several nights in a row at Tarnak farms near Kandahar. But the chief of Central Command, US Marine Corps Gen. Anthony Zinni forcefully bans any bombing, expressing fear that some shrapnel might hit a nearby mosque, not even a "shrine", but a rather cheap structure built by the Afghan government a couple decades earlier!
What would be Anthony Zinni's Islamist name? Anal al-Ziyna? ("Ziyna" means "Whore").
Just a few short months earlier, there was no restraint in bombing Serbia. Neither Ziyna nor anybody else objected to the distruction of more than 100 magnificent ancient churches and monasteries monasteries that not only were holy shrines of Serb Christianity, but treasures of world culture, on UN's World Heritage Site list. And everybody thought the Taliban were barbaric when they blew up those 2 Buddha sculptures!
In Feb. 1999, bin Laden camped in luxury with his wealthy United Arab Emirates fans for 4 days and nights, hunting bustard. This time coward Clinton and his sidekick coward Berger banned bombing, lest the oil-rich Arab princes get hurt!
And in early May 1999, in the middle of the worst bombing of Serbia, with Serb civilians being incinerated by trainload, bin Laden slept for 5 nights in a row at the Kandahar governor's residential compound. Coward Clinton banned any bombing again, saying he does not cause "collateral damage"!
Baby Bush: another Coward-in-Chief. Another wasted 2-term presidency. Even 9/11 did not force him to shake the dhimmitude and wage real war on the jihadists!
Vote for Rudy and pray it is not too late.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at January 5, 2008 6:24 PM

Pelayo,

Please rethink your decision to vote in November. People are running for different offices. Your congressman, for one. Even if there is no good presidential choice between the Dems and the GOP there is bound to be an independent or third party candidate you can support. Whether or not that person has a chance of winning shouldn't factor into it.

Unless and until more people move away from the bad choices offered by the major parties, the parties have no reason to change their stripes. If people like us stay home rather than vote, the results can be misinterpreted and the winner might overestimate his "mandate" from the people.

I share your distaste for the choices we've been given, which is why I voted for the Constitution Party in 2004. I'm headed that way this year as well, barring a primary upset in one of the parties.

Posted by: PMK at January 5, 2008 6:30 PM

It all starts at the top and its all about the money.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ramadan/islam.html

BACKGROUNDER: THE PRESIDENT'S QUOTES ON ISLAM

In the President’s Words: Respecting Islam

The United States is a nation dedicated to religious tolerance and freedom, and President Bush has acted to ensure that the world's Muslims know that America appreciates and celebrates the traditions of Islam.

Here in the United States our Muslim citizens are making many contributions in business, science and law, medicine and education, and in other fields. Muslim members of our Armed Forces and of my administration are serving their fellow Americans with distinction, upholding our nation's ideals of liberty and justice in a world at peace.
Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr
The Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
December 5, 2002

Over the past month, Muslims have fasted, taking no food or water during daylight hours, in order to refocus their minds on faith and redirect their hearts to charity. Muslims worldwide have stretched out a hand of mercy to those in need. Charity tables at which the poor can break their fast line the streets of cities and towns. And gifts of food and clothing and money are distributed to ensure that all share in God's abundance. Muslims often invite members of other families to their evening iftar meals, demonstrating a spirit of tolerance."
Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr
The Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
December 5, 2002

America treasures the relationship we have with our many Muslim friends, and we respect the vibrant faith of Islam which inspires countless individuals to lead lives of honesty, integrity, and morality. This year, may Eid also be a time in which we recognize the values of progress, pluralism, and acceptance that bind us together as a Nation and a global community. By working together to advance mutual understanding, we point the way to a brighter future for all."
Presidential Message Eid al-Fitr
December 5, 2002

Islam brings hope and comfort to millions of people in my country, and to more than a billion people worldwide. Ramadan is also an occasion to remember that Islam gave birth to a rich civilization of learning that has benefited mankind."
President's Eid al-Fitr Greeting to Muslims around the World
December 4, 2002

Ours is a war not against a religion, not against the Muslim faith. But ours is a war against individuals who absolutely hate what America stands for, and hate the freedom of the Czech Republic. And therefore, we must work together to defend ourselves. And by remaining strong and united and tough, we'll prevail."
Press Conference by President Bush and President Havel of Czech Republic
Prague Castle, Prague, Czech Republic
November 20, 2002

Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America."
Remarks by President George W. Bush in a statement to reporters during a meeting with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan
The Oval Office, Washington, DC
November 13, 2002

We see in Islam a religion that traces its origins back to God's call on Abraham. We share your belief in God's justice, and your insistence on man's moral responsibility. We thank the many Muslim nations who stand with us against terror. Nations that are often victims of terror, themselves."
President Hosts Iftaar Dinner
Remarks by the President at Iftaar Dinner
State Dining Room

Islam is a vibrant faith. Millions of our fellow citizens are Muslim. We respect the faith. We honor its traditions. Our enemy does not. Our enemy doesn't follow the great traditions of Islam. They've hijacked a great religion."
Remarks by President George W. Bush on U.S. Humanitarian Aid to Afghanistan
Presidential Hall, Dwight David Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Washington, D.C.
October 11, 2002

Islam is a faith that brings comfort to people. It inspires them to lead lives based on honesty, and justice, and compassion."
Remarks by President George W. Bush on U.S. Humanitarian Aid to Afghanistan
Presidential Hall, Dwight David Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Washington, D.C.
October 11, 2002

All Americans must recognize that the face of terror is not the true faith -- face of Islam. Islam is a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. It's a faith that has made brothers and sisters of every race. It's a faith based upon love, not hate."
President George W. Bush Holds Roundtable with Arab and Muslim-American Leaders
Afghanistan Embassy, Washington, D.C.
September 10, 2002

If liberty can blossom in the rocky soil of the West Bank and Gaza, it will inspire millions of men and women around the globe who are equally weary of poverty and oppression, equally entitled to the benefits of democratic government. I have a hope for the people of Muslim countries. Your commitments to morality, and learning, and tolerance led to great historical achievements. And those values are alive in the Islamic world today. You have a rich culture, and you share the aspirations of men and women in every culture. Prosperity and freedom and dignity are not just American hopes, or Western hopes. They are universal, human hopes. And even in the violence and turmoil of the Middle East, America believes those hopes have the power to transform lives and nations."
President George W. Bush Calls for New Palestinian Leadership
The Rose Garden, Washington, D.C.
June 24, 2002

When it comes to the common rights and needs of men and women, there is no clash of civilizations. The requirements of freedom apply fully to Africa and Latin America and the entire Islamic world. The peoples of the Islamic nations want and deserve the same freedoms and opportunities as people in every nation. And their governments should listen to their hopes."
Remarks by the President George W. Bush at the 2002 Graduation Exercise of the United States Military Academy
West Point, New York
June 1, 2002

America rejects bigotry. We reject every act of hatred against people of Arab background or Muslim faith America values and welcomes peaceful people of all faiths -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu and many others. Every faith is practiced and protected here, because we are one country. Every immigrant can be fully and equally American because we're one country. Race and color should not divide us, because America is one country."
President George W. Bush Promotes Compassionate Conservatism
Parkside Hall, San Jose, California
April 30, 2002

"We're taking action against evil people. Because this great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil. This is clearly a case of good versus evil, and make no mistake about it -- good will prevail."
Remarks by the President George W. Bush at a Town Hall Meeting with Citizens of Ontario
Ontario Convention Center, Ontario, California
January 5, 2002

Eid is a time of joy, after a season of fasting and prayer and reflection. Each year, the end of Ramadan means celebration and thanksgiving for millions of Americans. And your joy during this season enriches the life of our great country. This year, Eid is celebrated at the same time as Hanukkah and Advent. So it's a good time for people of these great faiths, Islam, Judaism and Christianity, to remember how much we have in common: devotion to family, a commitment to care for those in need, a belief in God and His justice, and the hope for peace on earth."
Remarks by the President in Honor of Eid Al-Fitr
The Diplomatic Reception Room
December 17, 2001

The teachings of many faiths share much in common. And people of many faiths are united in our commitments to love our families, to protect our children, and to build a more peaceful world. In the coming year, let us resolve to seize opportunities to work together in a spirit of friendship and cooperation. Through our combined efforts, we can end terrorism and rid our civilization of the damaging effects of hatred and intolerance, ultimately achieving a brighter future for all."
President's Message for Eid al-Fitr
December 13, 2001

According to Muslim teachings, God first revealed His word in the Holy Qur'an to the prophet, Muhammad, during the month of Ramadan. That word has guided billions of believers across the centuries, and those believers built a culture of learning and literature and science. All the world continues to benefit from this faith and its achievements."
Remarks by the President George W. Bush At Iftaar Dinner
The State Dining Room, Washington, D.C.
November 19, 2001

The Islam that we know is a faith devoted to the worship of one God, as revealed through The Holy Qur'an. It teaches the value and the importance of charity, mercy, and peace."
President George W. Bush's Message for Ramadan
November 15, 2001

This new enemy seeks to destroy our freedom and impose its views. We value life; the terrorists ruthlessly destroy it. We value education; the terrorists do not believe women should be educated or should have health care, or should leave their homes. We value the right to speak our minds; for the terrorists, free expression can be grounds for execution. We respect people of all faiths and welcome the free practice of religion; our enemy wants to dictate how to think and how to worship even to their fellow Muslims."
President George W. Bush Addresses the Nation
World Congress Center, Atlanta, Georgia
November 8, 2001

All of us here today understand this: We do not fight Islam, we fight against evil."
Remarks by President George W. Bush to the Warsaw Conference on Combating Terrorism
November 6, 2001

I have assured His Majesty that our war is against evil, not against Islam. There are thousands of Muslims who proudly call themselves Americans, and they know what I know -- that the Muslim faith is based upon peace and love and compassion. The exact opposite of the teachings of the al Qaeda organization, which is based upon evil and hate and destruction."
Remarks by President George W. Bush and His Majesty King Abdullah of Jordan
The Oval Office, Washington, D.C.
September 28, 2001

Americans understand we fight not a religion; ours is not a campaign against the Muslim faith. Ours is a campaign against evil."
President George W. Bush Remarks by the President to Airline Employees
O'Hare International Airport, Chicago, Illinois
September 27, 2001
The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them."

President George W. Bush's Address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People
United States Capitol, Washington, D.C.
September 20, 2001

I've made it clear, Madam President, that the war against terrorism is not a war against Muslims, nor is it a war against Arabs. It's a war against evil people who conduct crimes against innocent people."
Remarks by President George W. Bush and President Megawati of Indonesia
The Oval Office, Washington, D.C.
September 19, 2001

The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."
Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C.
September 17, 2001

This war is OVER! The American leadership has thrown in the towel and surrendered to the enemy beacause they have always supported the enemy:

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

There's more

http://clamormagazine.org/issues/14/feature3.php

Throughout the Bush family's decades of public life, the American press has gone out of its way to overlook one historical fact – that through Union Banking Corporation (UBC), Prescott Bush, and his father-in-law, George Herbert Walker, along with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, financed Adolf Hitler before and during World War II. It was first reported in 1994 by John Loftus and Mark Aarons in The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed the Jewish People.

Posted by: witness at January 5, 2008 6:31 PM

"If, on the other hand, you want to defeat a distributed network of terror cells, fueled by a radical ideological position, you need a multi-faceted approach, and part of that approach must include cutting off their supply of recruits by enlisting the help of moderate Muslims to convince other Muslims who may be on the edge or already involved in one of the 4 stages of the radicalization process, that they have options other than joining the Jihad."

Oh god. Is he really as bad as all that?

That business about Muslims who are in "one of the 4 stagesof the radicalization process" -- the voice of the self-satsified social scientist, with a little dash of psychology, and a tad of social relations, and a bit of this and a bit of that, and of course -- bien sur -- some fat government contract to pay for his solemn "study" which results in that fatuous discovery and solemn listing of those "4 stages of the radicalizaion process." The dimwits of the worst academic and consultancy rackets are fixed on a the government teat, and see a good thing, and while normally they are simply comical, and can be treated, as they used to be by Sen. Proxmire when he would announce the most idiotic, useless, or utterly obvious government-funded studies, when it comes to a world-wide threat, the jeffery-carr level of thought and understanding simply cannot be permitted. Give him the dough, if you must, just to get rid of him, but for god's sake don't sake such a fool seriously. "The 4 stages of the radicalization process."

What does this creature think Islam is all about? What does he think Ataturk worked so hard to systematically constrain? What does he think there must be, about plain old Islam itself, for us to pin our hopes on those we like to call "moderate" Muslims -- meaning those who just don't take their Islam to heart, quite so seriously, are what for other faiths we sometimes describe as "unobservant" or "lapsed"? Yes, a "moderate" Muslim we favor is one who doesn't take the doctrine of Jihad, a deoctrine which is central, not tangential, to Islam, and if it fell into desuetude during the last two centuries, that was only because the forces of Islam, the Muslim peoples, were simply on the ropes, far too weak, which is why Afghani and Abduh sought to change (or some say "reform") Islam -- not to make it meek and mild, but because they thought it had to be modified in the face of Western power.

But three things have changed that, unnoticed apparently by the jeffrey-carrs of this world (they're all too busy making their pitches for government contracts, aren't they? Oh, they are making out like gangbusters, these boys, and they have their mountebank's patent medicine to protect, to keep assuring everybody -- come and get it, boys -- that it really truly is effective against those crazy Jihadists, the ones who, every man jack of them, first must pass through, according to Jeffrey Carr, the "4 stages of radicalization."

Those three things, the things which brought back Jihad as something to engage in, with fervor and hope, are the following:

1) The oil revenues. Inshallah-fatalism forever holds Muslims back economically. They are lazy, with the laziness of oriental fatalism. They are unimaginative, except in their imaginary grievances and imaginary conspiracy theories, for they are taught, in Islam, the habit of mental submission -- which militates against the entrepreneurial. That is why, despite being the recipients of themost fantastic transfer of wealth in human history -- some 10 trillion dollars since 1973 alone (in 2007 dollars), not a single Arab or Muslim state has created anyting like a modern economy, and the only ones that come close are those that have managed to suppress or constrain Islam (Turkey) or have experienced both the ferocious Soviet suppression of Islam (as of other faiths) and also have very large non-Muslim populations (Kazakhstan), or have had a history of colonial rule which encouraged a certain mental freedom and have large, entrepreneurial non-Muslim populations (Malaysia). But the Muslim Arab oil countries are hopelessly dependent for the running of their countries, on foreign workers (see Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the U.A.E.), and those without oil depend, as Muslims did in the past, on Jizyah. In the past, it was the tribute demanded of local non-Muslims. At present, it is the tribute willingly paid, disguised as "foreign aid," that Western donors start, and then are fearful of ever diminishing, much less stopping, because of the attitude of the Muslim recipients, which is that the aid is indeed a kind of Jizyah, and is owed to them by the Infidels, is theirs -- the Muslims -- by right.

The second development is the mass migration of Muslims to the Bilad al-Kufr, the lands of the Infidels, where for the first time in history a people who carry in their mental baggage hostility to those into whose lands they do not enter with a sword, but to conquer in another way, through sheer numbers -- as Muslim after Muslim has said, has predicted with glee (see Boumeddienne at the U.N. in 1974, the speech about how we, the Muslims, will overwhelm you with the weapon of the overbreeding "wombs of our women." The European elites allowed millions of Muslims to enter, and to settle, without giving proper attention to the nature of Islam, and by ignoring the warnings given by some Western scholars of Islam, such as Charles-Emmanuel Bousquet -- too many of those scholars had died, or had retired, and the new generation of apologists, who carefully helped each other in their careers, supplied the pap that is so different from what Western scholars of Islam produced in the century before the Great Inhibition set in, and continues, to this day.

Look at Muslim threats, at Muslim demands, at Muslim demonstrations ("Down with France" they shouted right on the Champs-Elysees; "England will be Muslim" read the signs they hold up in the middle of London), and they constantly ask for special privileges or are given, even without asking, by those who are so eager to meet every conceivable Muslim demand, avoid any conceivable trouble with Muslims, all kinds of special concessions, from prayer rooms and wudu-washing rooms at schools and other public places, to being let out of work for five-times-a-day prayers, to discussions of whether Shari'a might not be allowed, or the rule against hijabs in French laic schools be relaxed, or really shouldn't that Danish publication be punished, and shouldn't Muslim sensibilities be allowed to modify Western rights of free speech (just this one exception, just for Islam, please, pretty please?)? Just look at the famously tolerant Netherlands,where such people as Pim Fortuyn, Theo van Gogh, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Geert Wilders were all threatened with death -- and the first two have been killed, the third has been forced into American exile, and only Wilders remains,under armed guard, moving every night from army post to army post, in order to stay alive in the country of which he is a member of the Parliament -- this in a country where the Muslim population has gone from 15,000 in 1970 to over one million today.

And the third development, that helps to make the world-wide Jihad possible, and has brought it back not from non-existence, but from temporary desuetude, has been that of technological advances, made by Infidels, and exploited by Muslims to destroy Infidels. Those audiocassettes that Ayatollah Khomeini registered his speeches on, from his French exile at Neauphle-le-Chateau, helped bring down the Shah and a semi-decent reimge, for the nightmare of Khomeini and his malignant and turbanned epigones. Similarly, videocassettes of Infidels being decapitated, and similar scenes, along with Qur'anic excerpts, and relevant Hadith, and details of the life of Muhammad, are to be found at Muslim websites on the Internet, and Muslim anti-"Zionist" and anti-"Crusader" propaganda can be found, with those highly tendentious pictures of supposed atrocities, and beamed by satellite television, that is Arab television that exploits Western satellite technology.

Jihad, or the "struggle" to remove every barrier to the spread, and then to the dominance, of Islma, everywhere in the world, and to ensure that Muslims rule everywhere to keep Islma on top -- that is not a fiction, not a fabrication from the perfervid brain of Stephen Coughlin, or from anyone at this website or anywhere else. It is standard Islam, and the greatest scholars of Jihad in the West have left ample written evidence of that -- and so have the Muslim scholars, those who are not writing or speaking for Western audiences, or advising the terminally creduolous, as Hasham Islam does Gordon England, and no doubt Jeffrey Carr has his "own sources" of information --don't expect him to read too much on his own, please, he's too busy coming up with those, not three, and not five, but exactly four -- count them, four -- "stages of radicalization."

The jeffrey-carrs of this world will never take the time to sit down and read, quietly, for several months, with commentaries and other guides to understanding, the texts of Islam, until they have thoroughly assimilated the material. They will continue to believe that the Total Belief-Systeem of Islam is really not taken all that seriously by Muslims, for in the end aren't they just fellow humans, and aren't all humans The Same The Whole World Over, with their dreams, and their schemes, and their loves, and their hates, and their disappointments, and their joys? Isn't the Whole Wide World just one big wonderful place where we are all diverse and yet also at the very same time we are all just exactly the same, and a can-do social-scientist like...oh, like Jeffrey Carr, come to think of it, doesn't have to worry about those fusty old books like the Qur'an and Hadith and Sira because he "understands" Muslims on a "deeper" and "universally human" level. You get the type, the dreary type? Dreary, and grasping for the easy money, the government money, for those "studies" of the "4 stages" -- the 4 goddam stages -- of "radicalization" of Muslims?

And don't expect the jeffrey-carrs of this world, cashing their checks for their latest "studies," to read about the 1350 years of Muslim conquest of non-Muslim lands, from Spain to the East Indies. Don't expect him to waste time studying the treatment of all the non-Muslims -- Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists -- in so many different lands, at so many different times -- a treatment that turns out to be remarkably similar, becaues the rules, that is the Holy Law of Islam, the Shari'a, and the texts (that Qur'an, those Hadith, that Sira that the jeffery-carrs of this world simply don't have the time or the inclination -- boring! -- to study.

Oh spare us these piranhas, swimming about and grabbing onto the ship of state, the S. S. Naufragium, under the impression that the underwater part of that ship is just one big fish that they can grab onto, and suck the blood from. What they are doing is helping to sink that ship, not that the current captain, and his crew, aren't doing a bang-up job of it themselves, and probably don't need the help of the jeffrey-carrs of this world.

One would love to know what government or other contracts Jeffery Carr, with his solemn study of how to stop the "radicalization" of Muslims who, I'm afraid, have only to have pointed out to them what is contained in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, and have it pointed out again and again, with scenes of Infidel "atrocities" in Iraq or "Palestine" or for that matter anywhere -- and they can of course be exaggerated events, or events ripped out of context, or made up entirely by some imaginative Muslim propagandists, but it doesn't matter, the primitive masses will believe, and be inflamed. Look at the return of the Taliban, after more than six years of the American and NATO war-making, and distributed largesse, to Afghanistan.

Carr, all the Carrs -- they are invincible in one thing. Not in their arguments -- it's infant's play to take them apart. But in their ignorance. It keeps them going. It protects them. It prevents them from ever having doubts about their own little enterprises. Don't confuse them. Don't make them read. They want those contracts. They want that money. They want to come with those "4 stages of radicalization" and then offer all of their bright ideas as to what to do, to prevent Stage 1, or Stage 2, or Stage 3, or Stage 4.

This way more than madness lies.

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 6:45 PM

I plan on emailing this article and the Gertz article to every news outlet, talk show host, etc I can think of along with my Senators and congressman.

I hope each of you will do the same for your areas.

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at January 5, 2008 6:51 PM

Jeffrey Carr: I would respectfully submit to you that whether Islam is or is not a good religion is a very important and relevant matter indeed. If it is, then there's far more hope that things will work out well for America and the West. If it isn't, then thinking that it is could be lethal, and relying on so-called moderate Muslims would be at best a kind of strategy (one I endorse as part of a divide and conquer approach for the time being but with the conviction that Islam is deep bad news), at worst a fool's errand.

After all, Nixon went to China as a way of providing leverage between the two largest Communist powers. He was under no illusion that there was a good Marxism. And again, we sorta', kinda' aligned ourselves with Tito from time to time as a way of countering Soviet influence in Eastern Europe, but we never thought he had forged an enlightened Communism. Please reconsider your statement that Islam being or not being innocuous is an irrelevant matter. Nothing could be more relevant.

Posted by: Wellington at January 5, 2008 7:10 PM

Hugh, the 4 Stages of Radicalization comes from a report written by the Intelligence division of the NYPD, which, in turn, is run by David Cohen, formerly Deputy Director for Operations at CIA. I'm certain that he'll be very interested in hearing your views on his department's report. Please do contact him, and then let me know how it goes.

For anyone who's interested, the full report can be read here: http://seawolfllc.com/Documents/NYPD_Report-Radicalization_in_the_West.pdf

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 7:20 PM

Mr. Carr

I would like to inform you of what you call a moderate muslim, relative to a radicalized muslim by redefining the words. Below is a simple word for word comparison;

Radicalized Muslim= Good & faithful Muslim

Moderate Muslim = Less Good & Faithful Muslim

Non Muslim = Infidel or Unbeliever

Now I realize that this is simplistic but that is just to explain the point. The good and faithful follow the teaching of the Koran to the letter . The less good are the vast majority who just want to live a life with no trouble. They cannot argue against the good follower because the Koran backs up the action of jihad. It is a popular conception in the west that the radicals have hijacked Islam. That is not true, they have not hijacked it, they are just doing what it tells them to do. If you don't believe what I have said prove me wrong by the teaching of Islam in the Koran and related literature. Have you studied or read what the Koran teaches. You will be saddened and surprised at the hate, deceit and murder in it.

That is why several have posted that Islam and its teachings are the problem. A man I know who was born into Islam and later left said that a good muslim will be a terrorist.

I want, just a you do, to have this threat to our culture and way of life eliminated but to do that you need to know the enemy first.

Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at January 5, 2008 7:21 PM

As I see it, the war ain't on terrorism. From my selfish viewpoint, I have more chance of being killed at any time by an asteroid than an Islamoloon.

Terrorism is just their way of getting attention. Er, Islamoloons, not asteroids.

What I direly do not want to see is a world increasingly dominated by Islamoloons, with their penchant for enforcing their bizarre fetishes by violence.

But terrorism? Gimme a break. I am NOT worried about terrorism. I just hate to see the hundreds of millions of women and children being victimized by proponents of this brutal and nonsensical ideology.

Posted by: Goob at January 5, 2008 7:36 PM

Mr Carr

Please share with us your depth of understanding of the intricacies of the jihadist psyche, and tell us exactly in which of the four stages of the "radicalization process" is this poor soul?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Suicide-bomber-baby01.jpg

Posted by: USorThem at January 5, 2008 7:39 PM

Well Jeffrey, whoever is formerly Deputy Director for Operations at CIA just doesn't get it either. These are the guys that get sensitivity training from CAIR. Hugh spelled it out for you & the "real smart guys".
Do you not notice that islam is in ascendancy all over the world...even where we are NOT INVOLVED. The quran exhorts believers to:
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 5, 2008 7:40 PM

"I'm certain that he'll{David Cohen} be very interested in hearing your views on his department's report. Please do contact him, and then let me know how it goes."
-- from a posting by Jeffrey Carr

Well, then I will modify exactly one thing. If David Cohen is a full-time employee of the NYPD, then this "4 stages of radicalization" stuff is not being done by a consultant for a contract, but I don't take back my mockery of such things, nor of you, for apparently taking it all so seriously, and looking for hate in all the wrong places -- that is, for your dreamy belief that everything should be held up for inspection and analysis except Islam itself, for Islam itself simply cannot possibly be the source of the Jihad, or of the particular instrument that we are supposed to monomanically focus our attention on, videlicet, "terrorism."

This business of "3 stages" of this and "4 stages of that" is the kind of thing that I think Jacques Barzun made fun of in "The Culture We Deserve," and still more fun of this kind of thing is made of all that in "Social Sciences As Sorcery" by that very funny Polish exile, the one who wrote in The Spectator in the same years as Tibor Szamuely, what's his name...I forget now.
But I'll google, find it, and put it up here.

Everything else I said about your views I cheerfully reiterate.

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 7:40 PM

"4 Stages of Radicalization comes from a report written by the Intelligence division of the NYPD"

4 stages, 5, or 20, who cares? It all comes from one source, Islam.

For apologists, remember we (the west / infidels) did not invent jihad or cause it. It's been around for 1400 years or so. We weren't even around then. It has not changed. Who exercises it? The radicals. Who permits it? The moderates. And we should take on guilt? BS.

All these reports out there. Have any of these geniuses taken the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, the source of all that is Islam and studied those?

Posted by: Sounder at January 5, 2008 7:44 PM

Mr Carr,

Would you then be in favor of withdrawing all U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan because:

U.S. troop presence angers Jihadis and helps create new ones.

U.S. efforts to transplant democracy are doomed to failure and this activity also angers Jihadis and creates new ones.

Your thoughts on this?

Posted by: Davegreybeard at January 5, 2008 7:48 PM

And the name dropping thing...
I voted for GWB twice, he's the POTUS (that's a pretty high position too)
He doesn't get it either.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 5, 2008 7:49 PM

The artificial aid to memory, Google (that's "Mister Google" to you) has come through one mo' time: Stanislav Andreski. "Social Sciences as Sorcery." Stanislav Andreski, now dead, but in the 1970s he taught -- or have I got Tibor Szamuely on the brain - at the University of Reading. Poland's loss, England's gain.

The "4 Stages Of Radicalization" and How To Prevent Them is, as noted by Jeffrey Carr with a note of quiet touche-satisfaction , is not by Jeffrey Carr. He's just terribly impressed with it all. As I've noted, David Cohen is on that fixed gothamite salary, and I presume is not in the consultancy fixing-Islam racket, as I assumed Jeffrey Carr likely was. That is, again as noted, the only thing I concede. So, Reader, kindly read my analysis-cum-invective about Carr, and simply excise the bits about his being a consultant no doubt peddling his wars on How To Deal With Islam. Apparently he isn't in it for the money; he's just misleading others (and himself) for free. I'm glad to hear it.

But what about David Cohen? Why don't I go and taunt him? Well, why should I? He hasn't posted jejune stuff here. I don't even know if he still believes that the one thing that doesn't explain the behavior of millions of (tens, hundreds of millions) of Muslims is Islam., but some "stages" theory of growth: Gael Greene's "Passages" meets Walt Rostow's "The Four Stages of Economic Growth." Good God, anything is possible nowadays. I'm not going to ruffle my wonted sweetness of temper over someone who wasn't looking for trouble. I'm fair.

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 7:50 PM

Hugh, you have a wonderfully clinical way of lancing a Boil. Especially one on the Brain.

Dare I offer my 6 point plan?

No Water
No Immigration
No Sanitation
No Electricity
No Utilities
No Paycheck.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at January 5, 2008 7:53 PM

I must say, what amazes me is how so many blindly defend Islam as a 'religion of peace' and that the infidels are somehow responsible for all this jihad, yet at the same time these experts, somehow, do not seem to believe a true Muslim must believe in what his 'religion of peace' teaches,

as interestinconundrum quoted:

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Posted by: Sounder at January 5, 2008 7:56 PM

I.m.a.h - As I've said before, I'm not interested in the relative merits of any religion, including Islam. I'm only interested in helping our government find a way to win the Long War. So rather than arguing with your definitions, I'll accept them as valid. Moving on ...

A major problem in Afghanistan is that in spite of military victories against al-Qa'ida targets, al-Qa'ida and the Taliban are still making gains by recruiting from your "less good and faithful" Muslim population. And THAT is happening because a percentage of that population is feeling hopeless, and the only alternative they that believe they have is to move towards what you've called the "good and faithful" Muslims - the Jihadists.

Coalition forces must stem that tide of recruitment, or for every Taliban and al-Qa'ida fighter that they kill, another 2 or 3 will join the fray. So how is that to be done? Organize a Muslim genocide? I hope that's not what you or anyone in this forum or elsewhere is suggesting. Convert every Muslim to Christianity? Perhaps that will work, if we want to wait another 1,000 years. The only solution that's both timely and practical, is to enlist the aid of "less good and faithful" Muslims to create other mechanisms by which they can express dissent, find work, live in more stable and safe neighborhoods, etc. That will dry up the recruiting pool, and when a Taliban or al-Qa'ida fighter is killed, their numbers will drop instead of increase.

It's just common sense, IMAH. Try to step out of the religious framework that you're accustomed to and view it from a purely practical COIN framework.

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 8:02 PM

Hugh, the poor boy doesn't know what hit him. The evisceration was so complete, my mouth was more agape than Joe E. Brown's. Reading your words, I was struck by the feeling the Spanish call "verguenza ajena."

Posted by: Hubert the Friar at January 5, 2008 8:08 PM

"Try to step out of the religious framework that you're accustomed to and view it from a purely practical COIN framework."

That's what you and millions don't get Mr. Carr. Muslims will not 'step out of the religious framework', despite our attempts to bring that sort of thing about, because Islam won't allow it. Islam, it's teachings, beliefs, practices IS the framework for everything.

Posted by: Sounder at January 5, 2008 8:11 PM

"But terrorism? Gimme a break. I am NOT worried about terrorism...."
Posted by: Goob

Thats what a lot of those 10314 terrorist victims since 911 thought too.

Posted by: duh_swami at January 5, 2008 8:13 PM

Hugh, how do you imagine that what you write about Islam is helping U.S. law enforcement and intelligence agencies, as well as U.S. Armed Forces win the Long War?

Let's say, for example, that every single member of every agency involved in this struggle, and every single member of Congress and everyone serving in the White House including the President himself, believes exactly as you do. How does that change our current military strategy as well as our Intelligence and Law Enforcement efforts? Apply what you believe, and deliver it in a practical strategic plan, as I did in my paper, and as the NYPD did in their's.

I'll wait.

Posted by: Jeffrey Carr at January 5, 2008 8:27 PM

A gluten for punishment - Jeffrey Carr?

blockquote>A major problem in Afghanistan is that in spite of military victories against al-Qa'ida targets, al-Qa'ida and the Taliban are still making gains by recruiting from your "less good and faithful" Muslim population. And THAT is happening because a percentage of that population is feeling hopeless, and the only alternative they that believe they have is to move towards what you've called the "good and faithful" Muslims - the Jihadists.

snip

It's just common sense, IMAH. Try to step out of the religious framework that you're accustomed to and view it from a purely practical COIN framework.

Studies consistently refute your common sense sir.

The poverty/terror myth

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at January 5, 2008 8:30 PM

A gluten for punishment - Jeffrey Carr?

blockquote>A major problem in Afghanistan is that in spite of military victories against al-Qa'ida targets, al-Qa'ida and the Taliban are still making gains by recruiting from your "less good and faithful" Muslim population. And THAT is happening because a percentage of that population is feeling hopeless, and the only alternative they that believe they have is to move towards what you've called the "good and faithful" Muslims - the Jihadists.

snip

It's just common sense, IMAH. Try to step out of the religious framework that you're accustomed to and view it from a purely practical COIN framework.

Studies consistently refute your common sense sir.

The poverty/terror myth

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at January 5, 2008 8:30 PM

Jeffrey stated: "Christian extremists aren't any better than Muslim extremists."

In what respect?

That's a generalization that doesn't hold any water.