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But Bashir Maan, "one of Scotland's leading Muslims," says security services are overreacting, because it is impossible to convert immoral Westerners to such a strict moral code as Islam. Aside from the insulting undertones of this -- Western non-Muslims are semi-bestial, immoral, out-of-control louts who resist what is good and pure -- it is absurd. Many of the converts are in fact reacting against Western materialism and relativism. Others, straitlaced morals aside, are attracted by the prospect of religious sanction for polygamy. That Bashir Maan's oversimplistic, inaccurate and insulting assessment would be repeated uncritically in a major British newspaper is yet another indication of just how clueless the mainstream media is about these issues.
"Al-Qaeda's white army of terror," by Richard Elias for The Scotsman (thanks to PRCS):
HUNDREDS of British non-Muslims have been recruited by al-Qaeda to wage war against the West, senior security sources warned last night.As many as 1,500 white Britons are believed to have converted to Islam for the purpose of funding, planning and carrying out surprise terror attacks inside the UK, according to one MI5 source.
Lord Carlile, the Government's independent reviewer of anti-terrorism legislation, said many of the converts had been targeted by radical Muslims while serving prison terms.
Security experts say the growing secret army of white terrorists poses a particularly serious threat as they are far less likely to be detected than members of the Asian community.
Since the 7/7 and 21/7 London bombings, police and intelligence services have had considerable success in identifying, disrupting and stopping extremist plots. As a result, groups such as al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba and Harkat-ul-Mujahideen have been forced to change tack. Converting white non-Muslims has been one response.
The trend is well established in the United States. American-born Adam Gadahn is one of the FBI's top 10 most-wanted terrorists after converting to Islam and rising through al-Qaeda's ranks to become a prominent spokesman.
One British security source last night told Scotland on Sunday: "There could be anything up to 1,500 converts to the fundamentalist cause across Britain. They pose a real potential danger to our domestic security because, obviously, these people blend in and do not raise any flags.
"The exact figure of those who have converted to Islam and turned to terror is not precisely known. Not everyone who converts becomes radicalised and it may be that just two-fifths go down that path, but it remains a significant and dangerous problem."
Carlile said he was not aware of specific numbers, but confirmed to Scotland on Sunday that Whitehall was aware of the new threat and was actively tackling it. He said: "These people are an issue and are potentially very dangerous. There have been cases of non-Muslims converting before, and of these, Richard Reid, the so-called Shoebomber, is the most obvious example.
"They are more difficult to detect and the security services are right to place some focus on this issue."
Carlile said the majority of converts were targeted when they were in prison: "These (converts] are outside the standard type of profile which most police forces would have of a terrorist, which is male, young, and of Middle Eastern or Asian appearance. That is why they are so potentially dangerous."
Carlile added: "The Home Office has a lot of money, millions of pounds, which is being put forward for communities and fighting radicalisation. There is no question how tackling this issue is best achieved: it is achieved at a community level."
Security experts say radical Muslims in prison have become adept at identifying potential new recruits to their cause. Those in custody for the first time, the young and the lonely are particularly susceptible.
Initially, the approach is made to comfort, console and support, with very little reference, if any, to religion.
However, after several 'chats', the conversation will be turned towards the subject and, gradually, over a period of weeks or months, it is possible to complete the conversion.
[...]
But one of Scotland's leading Muslims disputed the claims of radicalisation, saying Islam's strict moral code made it unattractive to many westerners.
Bashir Maan added: "I do not know of any Islamist terror group in Scotland and, considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society.
"I agree that the security services must be vigilant and keep their eye on everybody, but I think in this case they seem to be over-reacting."
Posted by Robert at January 13, 2008 5:28 AM
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Asslamau Laikum,
Here we are, The birth of the wuslim as I predicted...the need for peace is what I hope they can spread to muslims...that's the function of the wuslim and the eventual rise of and rise of sharia lite.
Posted by: Naseem![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 13, 2008 6:45 AM
Notice the type of individual they are recruiting. Louts of the first order who know nothing about that vile, ugly belief system. No decent self-respecting citizen would want to be a mohammadan!
at January 13, 2008 7:58 AM
If I remember correctly, Prison Fellowship has been warning about this same thing in US prisons for quite a while.
Actually, I think it would be quite easy to pick out the white converts....scraggly beards a la adam gadhan and richard reid and clothing more suitable in the mid-East.
at January 13, 2008 8:03 AM
"considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society."
More likely their own high Judeo/Christian moral standards makes it impossible for them to consider sinking so low.
at January 13, 2008 8:06 AM
from article:...it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society.
If it is impossible, then why do they allow these conversions? If they understand ahead of time that these conversions are impossible, why do they continue doing them? It would seem to me they are creating automatic apostates. But maybe useful ones.
Naseem is going to have to explain her theory about wuslims to Bashir Maan, he seems to think it is not possible.
at January 13, 2008 8:39 AM
"But Bashir Maan, "one of Scotland's leading Muslims," says security services are overreacting, because it is impossible to convert immoral Westerners to such a strict moral code as Islam".
In the 1930's there was a German culture-art critic who said "every-time I hear the Nazis talk about culture I want to reach for my pistol". The same can be said when Muslims talk of "morality".
It is interesting how similar the Muslim hypocracy re "superior morality" is to the Nazi claims re that. Whenever I hear people extolling a controlling "morality" I wonder what they are hiding or what is the weakness that they cover with their rationalization system and arrogance (which is always a cover for weakness).
Except for a few saints, most humans are amoral (which is reflected in the predatory behavior of states and tribes). Islam is a rationalization system for domination (similar to Nazi and Japanese Imperial Hakko ichiu). The very fine historian Iris Chang describes the consequences of superior Hakko ichiu morality in The Rape of Nanking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakko_ichiu
In many ways she was a victim of what she learned about what her parents faced in the 1930's...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Chang
at January 13, 2008 8:40 AM
Almost every other culture has become very critical and self-critical re these rationalization systems for domination. Islam is still in asshole mode on the matter.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 8:52 AM
naseem wrote:
"Here we are, The birth of the wuslim as I predicted...the need for peace is what I hope they can spread to muslims...that's the function of the wuslim and the eventual rise of and rise of sharia lite."
This illustrates a common Muslim attitude: "If you wait long enough, help will come." She wants US to convert to clean up HER religion.
Myths and fables show what a culture values. Compare the above to the moral of one of Aesop's fables: "The Gods help those who help themselves."
at January 13, 2008 9:10 AM
I have come to the conclusion that there are two basic engines of Imperialism-Empire. One attempts to achieve domination via "religion" or some ideology (Pizarro n Peru, the Muslim invasions of Hindu India, Islam expansion under Muhammad, the Nazis in Russia, Hakko ichiu, etc.). The other is a commercial Imperialism that attempts to dominate via trade (Brits, US, China, etc).
The ideological and "religious" based rationalization systems for domination dehumanize "the other" under the guise of "superior morality" and are basically plunder-domination-exploitation-imperial-isms. The "religious" and "ideological" rationalization systems have no respect for "indigenous cultures" (Muslims in Hindu India, Pizarro in Peru, etc).
The commercial domination systems usually (but not always) are more respectful of other cultures because they are interested in commerce-trade. Of the two, I'll take commercial imperial systems any day over the "religious" systems.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 9:20 AM
jay-
It's like talking to Mrs. Daffy Duck. She's a sad woman in a sad place.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 9:23 AM
Bashir Maan puts his foot in it again.
For the benefit of those of you furth of the UK, this gentleman, now in his 80s, and once highly respected, was formerly the Deputy Lord Lieutenant of Glasgow and a chairman of the local Strathclyde Police Board in his capacity as a local councillor (Labour). He presided over rising violence between Asian and white youths in the Pollokshields area of the city during the 1990s, resulting in the hellish murder of Kriss Donald, 15, in 2004. An ex police chief of Glasgow, Mike Liddel, accused unnamed politicians on the Police Board as interfering unduly in the policing of the area: police were afraid to intervene in Asian gangs because they would be accused of racism. This has resulted in Asian gangs operating with impunity in the south side of the city where the Asian (mainly Muslim) population is concentrated, making it a 'no-go' area for whites (in support of Bishop Nazr Ali's recent contention).
Maan finally left Labour in 2003 over the Iraq war. Now in his 80s he has finally reverted to type after decades posing as a liberal, and now holds forth as a committee member of Glasgow Central Mosque.
Yes folks, the Islamist threat in Glasgow is safe in this man's hands!
Posted by: devorgilla at January 13, 2008 9:47 AM
".....saying Islam's strict moral code made it unattractive to many westerners....."
....well, possibly to those westerners who make it important to know the truth about Islam....however, most prisoners are low life losers, much like their 7th century radical Islamic retards....to whom, the violent nature of radical Islam holds great appeal....
at January 13, 2008 9:49 AM
"Many of the converts [to Islam] are in fact reacting against Western materialism and relativism. Others, straitlaced morals aside, are attracted by the prospect of religious sanction for polygamy."
-- from the comment to the article above
These are two of the reasons. But there are others. You may find it necessary, given your surroundings (you are a prisoner in a prison where Muslims comprise the group that dominates, and threatens; you live in a council house where you are one of very few non-Muslims) to join up, in the same fearful way that some might join the Crips or the Bloods. Or, you may like the idea of the Instant Community, "the brothers," who offer you -- just say that Shahada will you, and let's get on with it -- a group to which you will now Belong. Or you can't stand the confusion of life, which only gets more confused every day, and long for a Simple Solution to the Universe, and what is simpler, than handing over your intellect, and learning the habit of mental submission, something no longer to be ashamed of, as a sign of inability, but now the source of strength and pride, as you are obeying -- with everything neatly labelled haram or halal, in the Total Belief-System that does not merely encourage or discourage, but Commands and Prohibits.
And think, as a kind of commentary on this phenomenon, of the telling scene in "Cabaret" where, one by one, the young boys rise, until they are no longer individuals but The Crowd, The Mass, as they join in singing the Nazi-esque anthem, "Tomorrow Belongs To Me."
Posted by: Hugh at January 13, 2008 9:51 AM
And think, as a kind of commentary on this phenomenon, of the telling scene in "Cabaret" where, one by one, the young boys rise, until they are no longer individuals but The Crowd, The Mass, as they join in singing the Nazi-esque anthem, "Tomorrow Belongs To Me."
Posted by: Hugh at January 13, 2008 9:51 AM
You nailed the truth on the matter.
Freedom is burdening to some because the first rule of freedom is that it must be limited by the free person's behavior or else freedom is meaningless. That requires mind. It's easy to revert to the herd and the control of the herd.
I now understand why Hitler (and Himmler) said that Islam is compatible with Nazism. (Hitler called Christianity "the Jewish Christ-creed with its pity ethics".) It is compatible with Nazi ideology. That may be a hidden agenda among the dreamers who dream of a New Reich.
at January 13, 2008 10:08 AM
" considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society."
It's precicely because of the mind-numbing prayer, unnatural fear and abstention from sex, and all-consuming obsession with trivial rules, that Islam crushes the spirit of people, and makes it impossible for them to distinguish between real and bogus morality.
All the things Muslims rant against as "immoral" in liberal Western societies are, for the most part, harmless vices compared to the epic moral perverions in their own.
Young people brought up in our very liberal Western socities are far better equipped to make a rational moral judgement than a yound person brought up in an Islamic society. They are also better able to recognize hypocrasy when they see it.
Most young Westerners know the difference between what's moral and immoral, even though they might willfully choose to act immorally.
Muslims distinguish themselves for their capacity to willfully choose something profoundly immoral, and call it moral.
One reason it's impossible to convert young Westerners to Islam is because there is a limit to the depths of depravity they're willing to sink to. They know the difference between the real morality they're brought up with in a Judeo/Christian soiciety, and the superficial rules that pass as morality in a Islamic an society.
Posted by: rational at January 13, 2008 10:13 AM
Hugh-
I may be wrong, but I detect that there are some in Europe who welcome Islam as a tool to a Nazi style racist state. It's a hunch. I wonder what Oswald Mosley thought about Islam. I have to read-up on that. I detect an agenda among some.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 10:15 AM
"I do not know of any Islamist terror group in Scotland and, considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society.
So why do you waste your time with us ignorant Westerners? Stay in your pure enclave and leave us to muddle through life. We'll get by.
"Many of the converts [to Islam] are in fact reacting against Western materialism and relativism. Others, straitlaced morals aside, are attracted by the prospect of religious sanction for polygamy."
-- from the comment to the article above
How could anyone objecting to relativism accept the relativity that is Islam - polygamy, killing when it suits you, different rules for different people?
Islam is moral relativism writ large.
Materialism? Islam teaches that it is the right of Muslims to own the world. What they don't own they are free to steal. What they can't steal they are free to murder for.
What moral person accepts the notion that some people are born to enslave others?
Islam - moral? GIVE ME A BREAK!!
The fact that Islam has to go prisons to find its adherents says a lot about Islam. Who else recruits believers on the basis of whether or not they will "raise flags" with the government?
If they want these people to slither through society then do they encourage them to retain their given names? It would be pretty hard for a Mohammad or a Hussein to remain under the radar. Do they stay away from the mosques? Again, it's hard to deny your religion when you drop to the floor five times a day. Are women recruited and are they allowed to go out in public without their male guardians or any head covering? Your name can be John Smith but I'll look at you twice if any woman with you is wearing a hijab.
Posted by: PMK at January 13, 2008 10:18 AM
Hugh-
If you look at the Arab culture (especially Saudi Arabia) its very racist. Sure they fart platitudes about equality-but the proof is in the pudding of their behavior. Even the Arab wannabes of Sudan (who obviously have much Black African ancestry and are hardly Are-a-fart Arab Semitic types) would find no home in Saudi Arabia. (Neither would Somalis.) In Europe Islam would develop into a super-racist system similar to Saudi racism. (Even Egyptians are looked down on in the Arab world.) Hitler and Himmler are right re this.
I detect an agenda.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 10:28 AM
and what will the Europeans do about islam as it destroys each country from the inside.......
how many nations have fallen from the inside from the expansion of islam???
it is underway..........just as germany marched through Europe, islam is marching through Europe.
who in Europe will stand up and wage war against this scourge???
who in America will stand up and wage war against this scourge???
the religion of peace is murdering liberty and freedom across the globe and the politicians refuse to recognize the signs...........this ignorance resulted in WW2 and will also result in WW3 or total loss of freedom.
are you ready for what is to come???
at January 13, 2008 10:43 AM
Part of the agenda here, and the attraction of Islam, is the desire to turn women into Nazi-style breeders. The secret Nazis know that the Muslim system is more favorable to controlling women for that purpose. (It's a great system for folks like challenged Fibrahim Hooper.) Islam is about control, but the control of women is very important and central to it. It's hidden under this "superior morality" bullshit.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 10:49 AM
Islam is a statist imperial ideology, as there is no separation of the religion from the functions of the state. Among others tenets, it has this in common with the Left-socialist ideologies - National Socialism, Stalinism, Maoism, Pol Pot etc, that gave the world all the horrors of the 20 the century.
It is no surprise that Nazi groups and other Far Left groups, find it so easy to cooperate with Islamic groups.
Posted by: DP111 at January 13, 2008 10:58 AM
"considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society."
I found this line quite amusing...........does anyone remember the video of Muhammed Atta drinking in a bar (strip club?) the night before 9-11?
Posted by: Had.Enough at January 13, 2008 11:06 AM
DP111-
Absolutely. The ideological and "religious" systems (National Socialism, Stalinism, Maoism, Pol Pot, Islam, Pizarro in Peru, etc.) tend to be plunder-control-domination forms of imperialism. The commercial imperial-isms are more interested in commercial domination-trade. The "religious" and ideological belief systems provide the rationalization for dominance in one form or other and claim "Moral superiority". (Maybe the love of money is not always the root of all evil.-LOL)
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 11:08 AM
Every one of these "religious" or ideological based belief systems ultimately provide a "moral authority" for mass murder. BTW, I think China's (back to their roots) commercial imperialist dreams bode well for the future there. They will, in the long run, be tolerant of things that do not interfere with commerce. Commercial imperialism (though it has to be kept in balance) is preferable to the "religion" and ideology domination systems.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 11:15 AM
"I do not know any terror groups in Scotland"
Is this to mean there is not one there yet? There were some but they left? The groups are just in different locations outside Scotland?
Bashir must not get out much to notice these things?
This wouldn't be a clear case of "well-documented Opinion" would it?
What you see, has nothing to do with what we say. These Opinions are well documented. Read them for yourself.
Posted by: flowerknife_us at January 13, 2008 11:19 AM
Potential western converts to Islam need only consider one thing. Shahada.
Say Shahda once,
say Shahada twice,
but never, ever, say Shahada thrice.
at January 13, 2008 11:27 AM
Here is one of the white ********.
http://www.idristawfiq.com/
He was a Roman Catholic priest before he bowed his knee to Baal.
at January 13, 2008 11:48 AM
Here is one of the white ********.
http://www.idristawfiq.com/
He was a Roman Catholic priest before he bowed his knee to Baal.
at January 13, 2008 11:49 AM
From the link above:
Islam is a very simple religion. It is a religion of great joy and happiness.(*tell that to the thousands of "honor killing victims and those killed on 9-11) Muslims now make up about one fifth of the world's population and they believe that Islam is the natural religion of mankind, which has existed since the beginning of time.(*No, it hasn't. It was after the 7th century before the religion of "land piracy" took off) The word Islam comes from a root word which means both peace and submission.
*my opinion
How can any intelligent person read the quran, hadith and other texts, come away with the opinion that that religion has ANY joy? The qurann is a war manual...it instructs how to take booty and slave girls...hate the infidel and FORCE them to submit to an alien god. JOY?
Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 13, 2008 11:58 AM
"I agree that the security services must be vigilant and keep their eye on everybody, but I think in this case they seem to be over-reacting."
In the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies from the 1960's:
"Well he would say that, wouldn't he?"
Posted by: Ken CleanAirSystem at January 13, 2008 12:19 PM
"These [converts] are outside the standard type of profile which most police forces would have of a terrorist, which is male, young, and of Middle Eastern or Asian appearance."
Even this "standard" profile list leaves out the elephant in the living room that nobody in public office has the courage to mention: they are ALL Muslims, you dolt. They are ALL Muslims. Hello?!!!
Posted by: SaracensAtTheGates at January 13, 2008 12:35 PM
Maybe my geography is as bad as G W Bush's but isn't Glascow Airport in Scotland. Wasn't there a little brush-up there last year with some terrorists?
"Bashir Maan added: "I do not know of any Islamist terror group in Scotland" from the article.
This statement is somewhat telling about the relationship between those ole fash'n religious leaders and the Islamist terror groups.
Good News from the Wash Post. SJS or Sudden Jihad Syndrome is an offical term!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080102/NATION/203823370/1001
Posted by: Aunt Bea at January 13, 2008 12:43 PM
"The fact that Islam has to go prisons to find its adherents says a lot about Islam."
Posted by: PMK
Yeah. I'm still waiting for an ambassador from Islam to visit my church, and tell us all about the "glories" of Islam. We're a friendly lot, especially after we've sung a few uplifting songs, and wished peace to our neighbors.
It would probably be safe to say that I'm one of the most hawkish people in the bunch, but there are others who are pure doves. The doves might listen, but then they would smile and say "No, thank you".
Or, hey, they could come to one of our open-house days, at work, admire some of our TADS, Hellfire, Comanche, Apache, Longbow, Predator, and Sniper displays, then give us a little speech about the "peace" that is Islam. However, most of my co-workers believe, as do I, in peace through superior fire power.
PMK, I know you wonder, as I do, why criminals will believe in the moral superiority of another group of criminals. Mohammedans aren't jailed just for being Mohammedans. They are jailed for their crimes.
For those new folks, and Mohammedan apologists, I'll repeat: Mohammedans in jail are there because they have committed crimes! They are criminals!
Posted by: Abscedere at January 13, 2008 12:47 PM
"considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society.'
The first question I would have asked this guy is;
"Sir, are you saying that Islam has in place in Scotland, at this time, means of enforcing these rules and if so, what are they?"
I'd love to see him answer that one.
Posted by: Aunt Bea at January 13, 2008 12:49 PM
The good news about Western converts to Islam, as noted by others above, is that they tend not to be the sharpest knives in the drawer. The bad news about such converts is that they tend to have an above average proclivity for violence, making them useful tools in advancing Islam's agenda by force, a major feature of Islam even though Muslims and useful dhimmis continue to insist otherwise. But these Western jokers who convert to the religion of peace and tolerance are in and of themselves merely a nuisance. The real problems remain Western multicultural, PC nonsense propagated by clueless dhimmis, Islamic terror coming from the Middle East and Muslim immigration to the West.
Posted by: Wellington at January 13, 2008 1:02 PM
There seems to be 3 groups that are vulnerable to Da'wa in the west. Criminals, yuppies looking into Sufism and the mentally disturbed IMO.
In regards to the latter, there seem to a small percentage of yuppies who examine Sufism or at least the sugar-coated kind promoted in the west and as a result they end up either converting or having a very positive impression of Islam in general. Most though just read Rumi and thats about it, at least in my experience.
And then there are Adam Ghadans and Afghan Johnnies, mentally unbalanced individuals who gravitate to Islam likes flies to shit. The good thing about these sorts is that they become such fanatics they stand out like a sore thumb. They go for the full monty - dress, beard, always have a Koran with them, etc.
Posted by: waltc at January 13, 2008 1:24 PM
And then there are Adam Ghadans and Afghan Johnnies, mentally unbalanced individuals who gravitate to Islam likes flies to shit. The good thing about these sorts is that they become such fanatics they stand out like a sore thumb. They go for the full monty - dress, beard, always have a Koran with them, etc.
by waltc
The bad thing is that we ignore them because they look so whacky. We figure everyone else is like them and that Islam is no more dangerous than being a Moonie. Just because they look foolish doesn't mean they're not dangerous.
Adam G. may look like a loon but he is serving a vital interest in Muslim propaganda. How many people did Afghan Johnny kill before he was captured?
at January 13, 2008 1:40 PM
"Jihadists recruiting British converts"
I'm sure that the gutters, sewers and trash bins are full of jihadist hopeful's. Wherever disease infested rats hang out - that's where they'll find them.
Posted by: champ at January 13, 2008 1:56 PM
OT, but it seems one of Osama's sons is looking to become a British resident (after marrying a British grandmother) and settle in the UK as a "peace activist". The wife had previously expressed a desire to settle in Saudi Arabia, but I guess hubby wasn't welcome?
What kind of "peace" will he be working for?
The fourth son of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, who attended terror-training sessions in Afghanistan with his father, may soon take up residence with his British wife at her English country home, where the two plan to have a child with a surrogate mother and become peace activists, if his recent request for a visa is approved.
at January 13, 2008 2:03 PM
The largest mass conversion to Islam in recent history was the Islamization of the formerly officially atheistic Albania. It produces questions that those who enjoy contemplation might tackle.
First and foremost to me is why did albania, the people indoctrinated from birth for generations choose Islam when they finally had the freedom to choose? What aspects of Islam made the transition from atheist to Mahometan easier for albanians raised under a dictator, with no freedoms, hostile to the west?
I think that some of the same processes occur with regard to prisoners, and alienated death metal fans such as Adam Gadahn.
Posted by: stickman at January 13, 2008 2:05 PM
whats new this has been happening for years
Posted by: jewwho69 at January 13, 2008 2:14 PM
I thought foreign felons were banned from entering the USA. Anyway, since Europe has done such a poor job managing the violent newcomers in their midst, perhaps we should establish strict rules on who gets to visit here. Sorry gov'nah, no more Disneyland for you.
Posted by: Bingo at January 13, 2008 2:30 PM
Certain people in this life need a cause. They need a sense of belonging.
The far right (BNP) and their cohorts, are "stamped on hard", by British authorities, especially in governmental institutions and correctional facilities. Yet a "stone age cult", masquerading itself under a some-what dubious category of "Religion", is afforded the right, not only to survive, but to flourish openly, amongst the people in our society whom are most at risk from Islamic peddlers of hate and their cancerous creed.
In my mind, if Adolf Hitler were around today, Josef Goebbels would undoubtedly have had the foresight to register the Nazi party under the pretence, of a religious pseudonym, realising full well, that Western authorities would be "politically correct" enough to accept this new "peaceful sect", at their word of intent and meaning.
Every generation "suffers" its fundamentalist warmongers, intent on usurping power for their own despotic cause. Why does mankind refuse to recognise these signs?. Why do we seem to revolve in ever decreasing circles???.
The Apocalyptic concerns of US ALL TODAY, should be, the advancement in technology dictates that, the next megalomaniac to ascend to a position of outright autocracy, may very well signal the outright catastrophe of us all, including our very planet itself!!!. IS that really what Muslims mean when they paraphrase the line "GOD WILLING"!!!!.
Posted by: U.K. TODAY. at January 13, 2008 2:30 PM
The fact that a person has converted to Islam should be as much 'of interest' to those in charge of public safety, as the fact that they had joined, or loudly sympathised with, the Nazis would have been in 1930s or 1940s Britain, or the fact that they had joined the Communist Party, anytime from the 1920s onward. Despite British Nazi sympathisers and Communist party members looking exactly like their fellow Britons, it was perfectly possible to find out who they were, and keep tabs on them.
Apply the same procedure to Muslim converts; and strongly encourage the general non-Muslim public, if their friend/ workmate/ schoolmate/ family member converts to Islam, to share that person's name and particulars with the local police and with National Intelligence, just as they might have done in years gone by, had they noticed such a person expressing Nazi sympathies or acquiring Communist Party membership.
I understand, from articles and discussion previously posted at this website, that in Singapore (squeezed as they are between two rapidly-Islamising states, Malaysia and Indonesia) a strict watch is kept upon the Muslims (Malay and Indian) and ALL conversions to Islam must be registered with the Authorities.
In the interests of public safety - and given the demonstrable fact that in many countries converts to Islam have been captured up to their necks in Jihad plots - Singapore-style registration of converts to Islam might be an excellent idea for all Infidel countries to adopt.
Keeping Mohammedan prisoners separate from others in jail is also strongly advised.
Islam needs to be seen as a politico-religious cult, far more dangerous and much older than the likes of the Moonies, but belonging to the same species in terms of mind control. In its social/ political manifestation it reminds me of entities like the Triads or the Thuggee cult - organised crime as a religion.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 13, 2008 3:04 PM
Carlile said the majority of converts were targeted when they were in prison
That's so weird. This is the Religion of Peace we're talking about, so I'd assume the majority of converts would be targeted when they were in flowershops, or maybe arboretums or yoga classes. Prison, you say? That's so weird.
Posted by: special_guest at January 13, 2008 3:13 PM
Bashir Maan crowed
considering as a Muslim a person must pray five times daily, abstain from drinking (and] sex outside marriage, adhere to strict dietary and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a young person brought up in this very liberal society
Make that "considering as a Muslim a person must kill non-Muslims wherever they find them, stone female rape victims who don't happen to have 4 male witnesses to the rape, beat their wives (plural) when they don't follow their husband's dictates, agree that sex between a 40-something year old male and a 9 year old female is holy and sacred, hang homosexuals, chop off the hands of thieves and many other rules, it is impossible to convert to Islam a sane young person brought up in this very liberal society".
That's better.
Posted by: special_guest at January 13, 2008 3:20 PM
U.K. TODAY-
You are right. Hitler would embrace the Quran and all his Jew-hating would be explained by Allah-preaching and anyone who questioned that would be called an "islamophobe". I suspect a lot of the people who coddle Islam admire Hitler and the "superior morality" of Nazi Family values. Most are "useful idiots"-but I think there are some who have an agenda that is moving in under the guise of "multi-culturalism". Let's face the truth: you have to go against or ignore the basic teaching of Christianity to do what the Nazis did, what Muslims do in Darfur. Islam is a great rationalization system for domination, exploitation, deception-and Jew-hating. It provides "moral authority" for killing unbelievers or people judged as "unislamic".
Hitler and Himmler both regretted that Nazism did not march under that kind of "moral authority". Both wished Islam were the religion of Germany. If they get their way they will be as racist as Saudi Arabia in the treatment of non-Arabs.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 3:24 PM
BREAKING NEW, THE EMPEROR SPEAKETH
In renewing his "Freedom Agenda" - Bush's grand ambition to seed democracy around the globe - the president declared: "We know from experience that democracy is the only system of government that yields lasting peace and stability as we see after the election of Hamas in Gaza."
Since the Jews are greatly outnumbered in this part of the world it is incumbent on us to drive them out by the vote and the sword he said as he showed off his gold and jewel encrusted sword a gift from the ruler of in Bahrain where the US Fifth Fleet is docked.
Later he spoke about democracy in a deeply undemocratic country, the Emirates, where an elite of royal rulers makes virtually all the decisions. Large numbers of foreign resident workers have few legal or human rights, including no right to citizenship and no right to protest working conditions.Mr .Bush said he was content with this as he expects his Puppet in Israel to do his will even if the rest of Israel was opposed to it.
This is my style of democracy where we do as we will and the lower caste people learn to suck it up said the President to reporters before leaving the royal residence of Sheikh Khalifa ben-Zayad.
Some human rights groups have accused the Emirates of tolerating virtual indentured servitude, where workers from poor countries like Sri Lanka are forced to work to pay off debts to employers, and have their passports seized so they can't leave.
The president admitted his version of democracy was not perfect but that it sold to the delusional masses pointing to the content classes of the U.S. as the example for all the world.
P.M. Olmert of Israel has already begun implementing his ethnic cleansing of much of Israel to prepare the way for another Islamic state,the President's gift to his close friends in the Persian Gulf.
at January 13, 2008 3:28 PM
special_guest-
Underneath all the Muslim "superior morality" bull that what's what he means. He would not admit that, but he thinks all you say is really better.
Posted by: Frank at January 13, 2008 3:28 PM
Looks like I got stalked and it is from Omaha N.
Robert I hope you get this...
Posted by: dcat at January 13, 2008 3:54 PM
BREAKING NEWS!!!!
http://www.bedsonsunday.com/bedsonsunday%2Dnews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=248045
Paul Ray aka Lionheart has just appeared in his local paper. This, my friends is the real deal. Paul is the first blogger to be facing arrest for speaking out against Islamic jihad. You think you are all safe in the USA? When Obama/Hillary gets in Spencer, Charles, Hugh and Michael Savage are all going to be arrested.
We need to march on Parliament, we need a "Velvet Revolution" in the UK. Time for talk is over.
Web blogger faces 'racial incitement' arrest
Police are threatening to arrest an internet 'web blogger' for incitement to racial hatred the minute he returns to Britain.
Paul Ray, who 'blogs' as 'Lionheart', left Britain for an undisclosed location in the Middle East two years ago.
He claims he was receiving death threats which made it impossible to stay in his home town of Luton.
Since leaving Britain, he has regularly updated his blog with news and opinions on subjects such as the heroin trade, Islamic fundamentalism and police corruption.
On January 3, Mr Ray received an email from Bedfordshire Police which he has since posted on his website.
From Hate Crime officer Ian Holden, it read: 'The offence that I need to arrest you for is 'Stir up Racial Hatred by displaying written material' contrary to sections 18(1) and 27(3) of the Public Order Act 1986.
'You will be arrested on SUSPICION of the offence. You would only be charged following a full investigation based on all the relevant facts and CPS consent.
'Paul I will see you on the 19/02/08 when I will tell you everything that you need to know.
'Due to being out of the office for six weeks I will not have access to my email as of tomorrow 04/01/08.'
A spokesman for Bedfordshire Police said: "We are aware of this particular internet site and we are taking action."
at January 13, 2008 4:18 PM
waltc says:
"The good thing about these sorts is that they become such fanatics they stand out like a sore thumb. They go for the full monty - dress, beard, always have a Koran with them, etc."
Those precious 'white' converts will eventually be stripped of their beards and baggy pants and trained for deep cover dressed as 'one of us'. (All of this is sanctioned by the Holy (haha) Quran as taqqiya.
They won't even look like 'that nice Pakistani doctor and his family next door'. They will look like those 100% Americans next door. By then 'profiling' will be something we wish we could still do as the dirty bombs go off in six cities at once.
Posted by: poetcomic1 at January 13, 2008 4:41 PM
Who cares about Naseem!!!!
Naseem is not really a muslim, please block this moron and lets deal with the topics here. IE the UK is no longer a democracy thanks to fundamental Islam. Lionheart is facing arrest for a blog and all that everyone cares about is Naseem.
Please look at the big picture!
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at January 13, 2008 4:59 PM
RE Special Guest; If you were in prison where would you go???. What would you do to kill the time???. For thats all you have - time - and lots of it - to do nothing!!!.
So what better place for clerics and fundamentalists, fluent in the self promoting bigotry of their despotic cause, to "befriend", indoctrinate then radicalise their "captive audience".
A lot of criminals are angry at everybody but themselves. All a Muslim has to do is re-channel that anger toward the problems of society, into which they were born, and therefore has let them down. Criminals, by in large are not intellectuals. So many can easily be coerced, by those that seek to do so!!!
at January 13, 2008 5:11 PM
"Western non-Muslims are semi-bestial, immoral, out-of-control louts who resist what is good ..."
-----------------------------
Wait, I thought "semi-bestial" and "out-of-control louts" was the description of Muslim men when they see a woman's face, or a lock of hair, or Allah forbid, an ELBOW !!!
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at January 13, 2008 5:19 PM
Sorry boys. grapes, no virgins
A scholar in northern Germany writes under the pseudonym of Christoph Luxenberg because, he says, his controversial views on the Quran risk provoking Muslims. He claims that chunks of it were written not in Arabic but in another ancient language, Syriac. The "virgins" promised by the Quran to Islamic martyrs, he asserts, are in fact only "grapes."
Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at January 13, 2008 6:29 PM
RE Joe Schmoe; Are you aware or not, as to whether these heavenly grapes are sour???.
Posted by: U.K. TODAY. at January 13, 2008 8:30 PM
I found this line quite amusing...........does anyone remember the video of Muhammed Atta drinking in a bar (strip club?) the night before 9-11?
Yes: This was a preview to Muslim Heaven. It portrays the Muslim mindset and the suppressed sexuality that inspires their violence. The faucets of their natural, human, sexual expression have been blocked by the Mohammedan mandates. The plumbing backs up and bang!!! the tank blows. Indeed the grapes have soured and turned to vinegar.
Posted by: Briars at January 13, 2008 9:00 PM
the eventual rise of and rise of sharia lite.
Posted by: Naseem
And why is this so important to u, nazeem? Why is it so important to kill all the Jooz in israel? Why do u want the british to be forced to live in a fashion which is completely foreign to them?
What is it with all u islamos? Why are u such a bunch of nasty anal control freaks?
Why?
Posted by: Allah Schmallah at January 13, 2008 10:09 PM
Hey, good luck.
Posted by: breezy55 at January 14, 2008 12:29 AM
Can someone post, in a new thread, the Koran's 70 rules for wiping your ass?
Posted by: Bingo at January 14, 2008 2:20 AM
Bingo
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1520.htm
at January 14, 2008 3:54 AM
Didn't that peace loving upholder of public morals and well-known feminist, Mike Tyson, convert to Islam whilst in prison?
/sarcasm
Posted by: watling at January 14, 2008 5:12 AM
It is worth remembering that Scotland's First Minister, Alex Salmond, comes from the Ken Livingstone school of Islamic relations.
After the Glasgow terrorist attack Salmond said:
We should be exceptionally proud of our Muslim community in Scotland. They contribute enormously to the vitality of Scottish life and indeed to our economy and I don't think this incident any more than any other we have seen in recent years is going to divide our community
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6260158.stm
Gosh! How on earth did Scotland cope before the Muslims arrived?
It's a pity that he did not echo the words of that other famous Scotsman, John Smeaton, who famously said:
This is Glasgow and we'll no' accept this. You try this and we'll set about yePosted by: watling
at January 14, 2008 5:28 AM
One more white jihadette heading our way!
Posted by: Shy Guy at January 14, 2008 7:10 AM
One more white jihadette heading our way!
Posted by: Shy Guy at January 14, 2008 7:11 AM
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