Inquiring minds want to know, where is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and what is he doing on this blessed day. Anybody seen any pictures?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at January 20, 2008 8:36 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

I think that you can see that Assura is a bit of a paradox. On the one hand it IS supposed to be a peace march...but it is intersperced with emotion on the fateful martyrdom of Imam Ali all those years ago...shiites do not forget.

While free flowing blood and the odd little knifes and chains are permissable to "go with the flow", there really is no place for bombs.

Ironically the only place where Assura can be take place without Shiites being killed is in the West.

Lots of them (fellow muslims) have been killed in Iraq and in my Pak too...such is the shame in my heart about this.

I think it would be very magnanmous of the Amerike to allow an Assura march along ground zero....it would be peaceful, no one will be killed and yet the flow of blood on that ground will somehow infuse with the blood of the 3000 killed there.

The emotion would be exhilirating, womens beating their breasts wailing, bare chested men with chains...their breasts red too from the blood, relatives of the 3000 crying and shaking...somehow trying to reach out to their loved ones gone to Allah Paak....it would make up for a march never to be forgotten....this is what I woould hope to see.

Posted by: Naseem at January 20, 2008 8:55 AM

Naseem,

It would be unacceptable to me and the majority of Americans to see a march of this kind at ground zero. IMHO the cult of Islam needs to be put into the dustbin of history, the world would be a much saner and more peaceful place.

Posted by: NeverSubmit at January 20, 2008 9:04 AM

I think it would be very magnanmous of the Amerike to allow an Assura march along ground zero....it would be peaceful, no one will be killed and yet the flow of blood on that ground will somehow infuse with the blood of the 3000 killed there.

This is sick stuff Naseem as is the paragraph below it.
But on the other hand, Allah does seem to like to see the blood of muslims, I guess anything to please Allah is justified. Seems like Mahdi must like blood and chaos as well, since it takes a lot of those to get him 'stirred up' to the point of appearing.
Do they have psychiatrists in Lahore, or is it assumed that all muslims are mentally fit by virtue of being muslim? You need to run to the local witch doctor and get a few bones to rattle, Mohammad's demons are closing in on you...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 20, 2008 9:17 AM

What a crude way of mourning the death of a 7th century warlord Imam husayn who was killed in a jihad battle.Thats actually good for the infidels as the muslim jihadis are killing themselves.Then no Human rights organisations will be able to sue infidels of killing pious muslims jihadis.

Posted by: anti islamocommunist at January 20, 2008 9:18 AM

Hi Robert,
Iraqi blogger Ladybird has an interesting note on the Soldiers of Heaven leader: Reported on Al arabiya that the leader of the group is among the dead, but Al Arabiya says that the group is “Slodiers (sic) of Heaven” which Iraqi government announce his death about a year ago [see this link “Leader of – Soldiers of Heaven- reported dead a year ago now is alive“].

One of the more important things to take out of this inter-sectarian clash between the Shiites is how unprofessional the Iraqi security forces acted:

Ladybird: First images and video reported from today’s clashes in Basra with Ansar Al Mahdi group, the video shows Iraqi soldiers kicking and beating a prisoner, at least one scene shows an Iraqi soldier kicking injured person from the group, after one soldier tried to kill him but other soldiers prevented him from doing that.

From Iraqi blogger Nibras Kazimi: Then five minutes into the video, we see a badly wounded cult member who seems as if he is dying. He is taunting the soldiers by encouraging them to kill him and calling them "cowards" and "debased". But the excitable reaction from the soldiers exposed them as undisciplined and thuggish: instead of providing medical aid, they left him to bleed and cursed him out by saying that the cult members were "Jews" and "infidels". One placed him boot on the dying man's mouth to keep him from talking and another spat on him. Others broke out into a chant, the longer version of which is associated with the Sadrist movement.

Posted by: Mister Ghost at January 20, 2008 9:21 AM

On another note muslims must celebrate ashura daily as it will wipe out the jihadi threat without the need of infidels to waste trillions of dollars in "bring freedom to oridinary Muslim Iraqi Moms and Dads".

Posted by: anti islamocommunist at January 20, 2008 9:22 AM

More on the Hidden Imam from Wikipedia:

Birth and early life according to Twelver Shi'as
Twelver Shi'as believe that Muhammad was born in 868 AD as Muhammad ibn Hasan ibn Ali. There is debate within the Twelver community who his mother is. Many believe his mother, Narjis (Melika), was a Byzantine princess who pretended to be a slave so that she might travel from her kingdom to Arabia. However, some Shi'ah and scholars like Hamid Algar state that it is more likely that his mother was a Nubian slave. His father, Hasan al-Askari, is believed to have been the eleventh and penultimate Shi'a Imam. Shi'as believe that his birth was kept a secret due to the persecution that the Shi'a were facing during this time at the hands of Al-Mu'tamid, the Abbasid Caliph.

To support Muhammad's claim, Twelver Shi'as quote the following Hadith: "I and `Ali are the fathers of this nation; whoever knows us very well also knows Allah, and whoever denies us also denies Allah, the Unique, the Mighty. And from `Ali's descendants are my grandsons al­-Hasan and al-­Husayn, who are the masters of the youths of Paradise, and from al-­Husayn's descendants shall be nine: whoever obeys them obeys me, and whoever disobeys them also disobeys me; the ninth among them is their Qa'im and Mahdi."

The eleventh Shi'a Imam Hasan al-Askari died on 1 January 874 AD (8th Rabi' al-awwal, 260 AH) and since that day, his son Muhammad is believed by Shi'as to be the Imam, appointed by God, to lead the believers of the era. The most popular account of Muhammad al-Mahdi in Shi'a literature is taken from his father's funeral. It is reported that as the funeral prayer was about to begin, Muhammad al-Mahdi's uncle, Jafar ibn Ali approached to lead the prayers. However, Muhammad al-Mahdi approached and commanded, "Move aside, uncle; only an Imam can lead the funeral prayer of an Imam." Jafar moved aside, and the five-year-old child led the funeral prayer for his father. It is reported that it was at this very moment that Muhammad al-Mahdi disappeared and went into ghaybat, or occultation.

The Occultation

Shi'as believe that, for various reasons, God concealed the twelfth and current Shi'a Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, from humankind.

Period

The period of occultation (ghaybat) is believed to consist of two parts:

Ghaybat al-Sughra or Minor Occultation (874-939) is the shorter of the two periods, during which deputies of the Imam maintained communication to the rest of the world.

Ghaybat al-Kubra or Major Occultation began 939 and is believed to continue until a time decided by God, when the Mahdi will reappear to bring absolute justice to the world.

Reasons
Shi'as cite references from the Qur'an and from various hadith (reports) in order to provide the following reasons behind the Mahdi's occultation.

1) Unknown

One of the reasons behind the Mahdi's occultation has been concealed by God from humankind.

2) Trial

The occultation, and in particular, its long duration, is a trial for believers. Shi'as believe that God examines the believers for the faith in their hearts and their beliefs in relation to the existence of the Mahdi, as well as their loyalty to him.

3) Preparation
Before the Mahdi reappears to establish absolute justice throughout the world, humankind needs to make a certain amount of preparation. There will come a point when all ideologies and doctrines will fail and when every leader and government will rise to solve problems but will fail. It will then become clear that no one is capable of establishing justice in the world except God's viceregent, the Mahdi. Due to the lack of preparation and mankind's low level of readiness to accept the rules of God, Imam Mahdi has been concealed.

4) Lack of acceptance

Due to the persecution of believers and, in particular, of the other Shi'a Imams, as well as the prophets, it is clear that people are still refusing to accept God's viceregents. Thus, just as Shi'as believe that God concealed prophets Isa (Jesus), Idris (Enoch), Ilyas (Elijah) and Khidhr. God has also hidden the Mahdi from humankind until such a time when suitable circumstances have arisen for his reappearance.

Minor Occultation

During the Minor Occultation (Ghaybat al-Sughra), it is believed that Muhammad al-Mahdi maintained contact with his followers via deputies (Arab. an-nuwāb al-arbaʕa). They represented him and acted as agents between him and his followers.

Whenever the believers faced a problem, they would write their concerns and send them to his deputy. The deputy would ascertain his verdict, endorse it with his seal and signature and return it to the relevant parties. The deputies also collected zakat and khums on his behalf. For the Shia, the idea of consulting a hidden Imam was not something new because the two prior Shia Imams had, on occasion, met with their followers from behind a curtain.

Shia Tradition hold that four deputies acted in succession to one another:

Uthman ibn Sa’id al-Asadi
Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Uthman
Abul Qasim Husayn ibn Ruh al-Nawbakhti
Abul Hasan Ali ibn Muhammad al-Samarri
In 941 (329 AH), the 4th deputy announced an order by Muhammad al-Mahdi, that the deputy would soon die and that the deputyship would end and the period of the Major Occultation would begin.

The 4th deputy died six days later and the Shi'a Muslims continue to await the reappearance of the Mahdi. In the same year, many notable Shi'a scholars such as Ali ibn Babwayh Qummi and Muhammad ibn Yaqub Kulayni, the learned compiler of al-Kafi also died.

Major Occultation

According to the last letter of Muhammad al-Mahdi to Ali ibn Muhammad al-Samarri "from the day of your death [the last deputy] the period of my major occultation (al ghaybatul kubra) will begin. Hence forth, no one will see me, unless and until Allah makes me appear. My reappearance will take place after a very long time when people will have grown tired of waiting and those who are weak in their faith will say: What! Is he still alive?"

As he said in this letter, nobody will claim to have seen him except liars.

Another letter from Muhammad al-Mahdi says: "Rest assured, no one has a special relationship with Allah. Whoever denies me is not from my (community). The appearance of the Relief (al-Faraj) depends solely upon Allah. Therefore those who propose a certain time for it are liars. As to the benefit of my existence in occultation, it is like the benefit of the sun behind the clouds where the eyes do not see it."

With regards to advice for his followers during his absence, he is reported to have said: "Refer to the transmitters of our traditions, for they are my hujja (proof) unto you and I am God’s proof unto them."

Reappearance

Twelver Shi'as cite various references from the Qur'an and reports, or Hadith, from Muhammad and the twelve Shi'a Imams with regard to the reappearance of Muhammad al-Mahdi who would, in accordance with God's command, bring justice and peace to the world by establishing Islam throughout the world.

Muhammad is reported to have said:

"During the last times, my people will be afflicted with terrible and unprecedented calamities and misfortunes from their rulers, so much so that this vast earth will appear small to them. Persecution and injustice will engulf the earth. The believers will find no shelter to seek refuge from these tortures and injustices. At such a time, God will raise from my progeny a man who will establish peace and justice on this earth in the same way as it had been filled with injustice and distress."[citation needed]

Shi'as believe that Muhammad al-Mahdi will reappear when the world has fallen into chaos and civil war emerges between the human race for no reason. At this time, it is believed, half of the true believers will ride from Yemen carrying white flags to Mecca, while the other half will ride from Karbala, in Iraq, carrying black flags to Mecca. At this time, Muhammad al-Mahdi will come wielding God's Sword, the Blade of Evil's Bane, Zulfiqar (Arabic: ذو الفقار, ðū l-fiqār), the Double-Bladed Sword.

Sunni view

Sunni Muslims do not consider Muhammad to be the Mahdi nor to be in occultation.

Posted by: Hugh at January 20, 2008 9:24 AM

Sorry 'bring' should be 'bringing' in my above post.

Posted by: anti islamocommunist at January 20, 2008 9:25 AM

"While free flowing blood and the odd little knifes and chains are permissable to "go with the flow", there really is no place for bombs.

Ironically the only place where Assura can be take place without Shiites being killed is in the West."

Naseem, where is the religion in celebrating the murder of your co-religionist by bleeding yourself profusely playing with swords? How does bleeding yourself significantly show anything, but a pathetic perverse claim that you are bleeding yourself in earnest because a great immam was murdered? Why don't you believe the sunnis when they assure you that your mahdi won't come back because they for sure killed him, hacking him to little pieces and murdering all his children? Why don't you focus on the psycopathy of your religion where the first four of the first five immams are murdered by each other or their supporters?

What kind of religion has a god that requires you to murder each other? What kind of religion requires you to murder infidels until there is no god left but this murderous one desirous that all those still living are to mutter to him in slave like submission five times a day? Why does your god require you to bleed yourself significantly in public ritual at least once a year?

Yes, Naseem, we have freedom of religion in the West. islam by its vile nature is likely to test the boundaries of this freedom. However, your "holy" ritual (and I wonder why every journalist consistently describes Najif as "holy," how does the press censor all these articles consistently to describe Najif as holy?) will likely not be allowed in the west. On reflection, western courts find that the risk to the public of aids because of blood exposure will likely allow state authorities to ban the activity. Courts will hold that when balanced with an individual right of religious freedom, public health will be more important.

I also think the Western law will hold that a parent who encourages or allows its child to cut its head with a sword is guilty of child abuse.
Perhaps moslem parents who allow the behavior you describe should be taken away by children protective services for child abuse.

Muslims claim they are only worried about the next world, but isn't it odd Nassem, how much attention you devote to blood and death in this one!

Posted by: David England at January 20, 2008 9:41 AM

Mohammad: "During the last times, my people will be afflicted with terrible and unprecedented calamities and misfortunes from their rulers, so much so that this vast earth will appear small to them.

This is an interesting statement, the calamities he cites are not caused by kufr's, the west, or even
the weather...but from 'their rulers'. So muslim
'rulers', not just leaders, will 'afflict' these misfortunes on Mohammads people, muslims.
I bet Geo Bush will be glad to hear that. The statement by Mohammad exonerates him, and Israel.
It puts the blame for these calamities, right where they belong, with Islamic 'rulers'.
Did you read that Ahmadinijad? I bet he did...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 20, 2008 9:52 AM

Looks like my last vacation to the Catskills. It was fun for the whole family.

Posted by: Seymour Paine at January 20, 2008 9:56 AM

Memo to President Bush: Hey, just and idea, but, let's give thousands of these muslim moms and dads visas to come to the United States. Remember what you said, "Family values do not stop at the border".

Posted by: Havoc at January 20, 2008 10:03 AM

I think I read that Dinnerjacket goes to a well somewhere in Iran, from which the Twelfth Imam is supposed arise. Do we know where tha well is. Can we bomb the well? I am serious.

Posted by: sparrow at January 20, 2008 10:04 AM

BAGHDAD - Hundreds of thousands of frenzied Shiites beat their heads and chests in unison and whipped themselves with chains Saturday across Iraq . . . . The processions were marred by violence . . . .

Give the reporter a Pulitzer! News-writing doesn't get any better than this.

Posted by: ebonystone at January 20, 2008 10:05 AM

I think it would be very magnanmous of the Amerike to allow an Assura march along ground zero....it would be peaceful, no one will be killed and yet the flow of blood on that ground will somehow infuse with the blood of the 3000 killed there. -posted above by you-know-who

The utter and complete insensitivity of this remark is beyond belief. There is no heart, no soul, in this remark. It's just bestial, that is all. It brays and oinks and growls and howls.

Posted by: darcy at January 20, 2008 10:20 AM

The thing about Shiites, to me, is an amplification of the basic problem of Islam/ muslims, and that is hurt pride and a feeling of being unfairly treated. Since Abraham cast out their forefather Ishmael and his slave mom, Muslims in general have a chip on their shoulder about the raw deal they got (what was that, 4000 years ago?). On top of that, this stuff with Ali getting murdered puts a chip on the chip's shoulder. (What was that, 1400 years ago?) And it doesn't help that they come from a region where everyone is hot-headed and volatile...

Naseem, no offense intended, but we do not want to see blood in the streets nor this celebration of victimhood. We prefer our blood and gore behind an R rating at the cinema, and don't mind paying for it's production in a simulated manner.

Posted by: Goob at January 20, 2008 10:29 AM

Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. "O Baal, answer us!" they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened." 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.
*************************
From I Kings 18

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 20, 2008 10:35 AM

Why can't they do this on Fifth Avenue?

Posted by: Whistling Dixie at January 20, 2008 10:40 AM

I think I read that Dinnerjacket goes to a well somewhere in Iran, from which the Twelfth Imam is supposed arise. Do we know where tha well is. Can we bomb the well? I am serious.
Posted by: sparrow

The well is near the city of Qum in Iran. The well is at a place called Jamkaran. There is a mosque built over and around the well. I have no idea if the actual well has water or is dry. If it has water, Mahdi must be a fish... I don't think it is worthy of bombing...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 20, 2008 10:40 AM

I thought I just saw Hugh quote from Wikipedia.

Must need more coffee.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at January 20, 2008 11:15 AM

In fairness it should be noted that during the great Plague there was a Christian sect called the Flagellants who went about whipping themselves in order to deflect God's wrath. However, also in fairness, it must be noted that after a few years the Church lost patience with these wackos and had them arrested.

Posted by: RBLA at January 20, 2008 11:24 AM

I thought I just saw Hugh quote from Wikipedia.

Must need more coffee.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen

I noticed that too. LOL. I guess Hugh thought the write up there was accurate enough. There is lots of stuff on Mahdi. I once had on bookmark, a web site where several Imams, both Shia and Sunni, attended a series of meetings to discuss Mahdi in history and future. They kept minutes, which is the substance of the site. There were over twenty long chapters. I read the first eight and got bored. That site was on a hardrive that is long gone, but I may be able to find it again and post the site. It's interesting reading if you can wade through the boredom of it all...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 20, 2008 11:25 AM

Darcy
I must agree with you regarding Naseem.
A lot of the posts Naseem sends have an element of cruelty to them.
The posts always seem to bait people.
I guess this appalling attitude comes as second nature to muslims.
What a truly vile person and an equally vile doctrine

Posted by: Freedom at January 20, 2008 11:27 AM

The shame is that our own soldiers have been killed or injured trying to intervene in an internal conflict among these uncivilized savages.
And there will be no Ashoura S&M fest at ground zero - rest Ashoura'd.

Posted by: jewdog at January 20, 2008 11:31 AM

Darcy
I must agree with you regarding Naseem.
A lot of the posts Naseem sends have an element of cruelty to them --posted by Freedom

Hi Freedom. The ground zero suggestion is more than just cruel, it's diabolical.

Posted by: darcy at January 20, 2008 11:37 AM

"The processions were marred by violence with a deadly bombing in northern Iraq and clashes south of Baghdad."

This "procession" marred itself quite nicely, thanks. Really, it would not have seemed quite the same this year without a few suicide bombings thrown in to spice things up.

How any rational human can look upon Islam as anything but a massive abomination is beyond reason.

Posted by: JohnAdams at January 20, 2008 11:37 AM

Although Naseem denies it, I believe that she is a froll.
Her words are meant to show us the depths of our dhimmitude.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 20, 2008 11:56 AM

God, your people need you.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3496543,00.html

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 20, 2008 12:11 PM

Here's the shorter version of the Hidden Iman:

Blah blah blood knives blah blah yadda yadda 886 a.d. yadda yadda kill kill knives yadda blah blah yadda.

Doesn't that sort of sum up Islam in general?

Posted by: Seymour Paine at January 20, 2008 12:20 PM

Every time I look at that bloody picture, I think of how the blood banks of the world would love to have that blood donated, than wasted in this departure from reality called Assura. Mortification of the flesh may be common in some religious sects outside Islam, but it is a sick practice no matter who is doing it. Rolling around naked in sticker bushes,
(a metaphor for self flagellation or abuse),
for religious purposes, is perversion in my opinion.
Disgusting and deviant behavior from the ROP.

Posted by: duh_swami at January 20, 2008 12:22 PM

... the Mahdi -- a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad who disappeared as a child in the ninth century. Shiites believe he will return one day to bring justice to Earth....

What will happen once they take over the Earth? Who will perpetrate the injustices required to impel the spirit of Islam? More important, who will work for a living, will they have to keep the Dhimmis around to keep goods and services flowing? Most important, will these subadult children called Moslems be able to resist the tempatations of nuclear, biological, and chemical WMDs placed into Moslem control by the intellectual offspring of the Hillarys and Vladimirs?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 20, 2008 12:33 PM

John Crankraft Piggery
Seer and Diviner
REVEALS
A Secret Hidden for Ages:

The Twelfth Imam and Successor of The Prophet

is

`H U G H
F I T Z G E R A L D !!

Ameen.

Posted by: John C at January 20, 2008 1:31 PM

Nauseem, what do you look like today and why are'nt you with you friends beatin the crap out of yourself , your like your cults leaders, you talk the talk but you don't walk the walk , we have your cults number and the wheel of fortune is slowly comming to a halt, enjoy your winnings!!!!! my tax funded friends are comming to your neighborhood soon.

Posted by: OLD SARGE at January 20, 2008 1:32 PM

Behold the demented fruits of multiculturalism and diversity.

As ebonystone noted above, it's amazing that the reporter didn't consider the bloody parade violent.

Naseem: Ironically the only place where Assura can be take place without Shiites being killed is in the West.

There's nothing ironic at all about it. The West has, with great effort over the last few centuries, managed to relegate most of this kind of behavior to history and fiction.

It would "very magnanimous" of Muslims to help keep this kind of masochistic crap out of "Amerike" and begin removing from their own midst. It might also be a step toward reducing the chance that Islamic "civilization" will become one big ground zero.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at January 20, 2008 1:38 PM

Would you take candy from a Moslem?

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/20/iraq.main/

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Carrying explosives in a box of candy, a suicide bomber detonated in a town in Iraq's Anbar province Sunday, killing six people, including a sheikh whom the United States had recently freed, and wounded four others, an Interior Ministry official said....

Posted by: monk at January 20, 2008 1:46 PM

Hey, what do you know, I agree with "Naseem" on something. As long as we want to pretend that Islam is compatible with democracy, and pretend that there is no danger in allowing as many Muslims as will come into our country, I think we have to respect their right to enjoy the freedoms that they are fighting to eradicate, such as free speech. I would welcome a bloody chain-wielding Ashoura parade in NYC. Hopefully they could bring their "Islam Will Dominate the World" signs, and their posters with a picture of the White House with a black Islamic flag flying above it. Hopefully there would be lots of television cameras.

Hopefully there would be lots of commentators. I wouldn't even care if they were the "Islam is the RoP" commentators; making such comments over images of people cutting the heads of babies to draw blood would give a special poignancy to their commentary.

Most teaching moments are too pedantic, too boring, for most people to pay attention. So, let's bring on the "Ashoura at WTC Festival". No one could miss the significance.

Posted by: special_guest at January 20, 2008 2:12 PM

The hidden imam disappeared as a child. It was later determined that he'd become one of the "bacha bereesh", teenage boys without beards who dress up as girls and dance for ghey male patrons at parties.

Posted by: allahlovesporkchops at January 20, 2008 2:26 PM

There are constant reports of riots and murders and general mayhem around the mohammedan holidays.

It's characteristic.

All the anti-human ritualized violence.

Ritual stonings in mecca (or medina, or wherever). Ritual self-abuse. The creepy black robes and hooded faces.

Disgusting. But typical.

And it's pretty hard for me to act surprised that violence broke out at a public festival where thousands run around in the streets beating themselves bloody.

Or to care.

I just don't want them here.

Posted by: joeblough at January 20, 2008 2:27 PM

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Rom 9:13 KJV

"Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth." Deut 14:1-2 KJV

Posted by: Aunty Dhimmi <>< at January 20, 2008 2:29 PM

The Mahdi, or Hidden Imam (homosexual descendant of hoMohammad) disappeared as a child. It was later determined that he'd become one of the "bacha bereesh", teenage boys without beards who dress up as girls and dance for ghey male patrons at parties.

Posted by: allahlovesporkchops at January 20, 2008 2:32 PM

Why can't they do this on Fifth Avenue?

Posted by: Whistling Dixie at January 20, 2008 10:40 AM

"Philistines upon you, Samson!"

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 20, 2008 2:47 PM

I think it would be very magnanmous of the Amerike to allow an Assura march along ground zero....it would be peaceful, no one will be killed and yet the flow of blood on that ground will somehow infuse with the blood of the 3000 killed there.

The emotion would be exhilirating, womens beating their breasts wailing, bare chested men with chains...their breasts red too from the blood, relatives of the 3000 crying and shaking...somehow trying to reach out to their loved ones gone to Allah Paak....it would make up for a march never to be forgotten....this is what I woould hope to see.

===================

The thing that makes America truly a Christian nation is the fact that we have the concept of forgiveness melded into our bones, our spirit. The quote from Bible, 'I press on, forgetting what is behind, and striving towards the prize...' this is what makes Christianity different from Islam. We forgive and forget, then press on to the prize.

Blood doesn't erase blood, Naseem. Forgiveness does.

Posted by: Kay at January 20, 2008 3:06 PM

Assalamau Laikum all,

I think that you can see that Assura is a bit of a paradox. On the one hand it IS supposed to be a peace march...but it is intersperced with emotion on the fateful martyrdom of Imam Ali all those years ago...shiites do not forget.

While free flowing blood and the odd little knifes and chains are permissable to "go with the flow", there really is no place for bombs.

Nazeem once again.. speweth forth the above..

Hey... what's a little blood in islam..? That's a peace march for you guys if I ever saw one. There are completely different norms when it comes to the cult of Mo.

Now I am going to watch a peaceful game of Football..

Maybe they need to watch more football and things.. cricket doesn't seem the cure for the addled pak brain.

Posted by: Allah Schmallah at January 20, 2008 3:10 PM

Hugh citing Wiki? He's been known to do that in the past - I remember one time while describing 'bidis'. Too bad I can't locate it right now.

I agree w/ Special Guest, Whistling Dixie, & others - maybe we should have it here. Incidentally, don't they already have it in Dearbornistan? - That would be a party that even the valorous Debbie Schlussel would shy away from infiltrating. Instead of Ground Zero, Park Avenue or Fifth Street, why not have it in San Francisco, Mission Street on a nice clear evening? Or maybe further north east in Richmond?

Kya, Naseem-begum, yeh sab aapke Lahore may nei hota? (doesn't all this take place in Lahore?)

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 3:20 PM

In fairness it should be noted that during the great Plague there was a Christian sect called the Flagellants who went about whipping themselves in order to deflect God's wrath. However, also in fairness, it must be noted that after a few years the Church lost patience with these wackos and had them arrested.

Posted by: RBLA

------------

Interesting fact. Also to be considered is the fact that the printing press made the Bible much more accessible to the public. People could then read it and learn for themselves that this practice (along with several others) are not acceptable to Hebrews or Christians. Scriptures were available for reading, like these:

"Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead (shave your forehead) ... for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God..."

Posted by: Kay at January 20, 2008 3:29 PM

The photo shows only adult men bleeding from slashes. On other occasions, I have seen pictures of boys also slashed -- some of them young enough that their mothers lovingly did the slashing for them. Is that a different holiday? Or did they just omit the pictures of the kiddies this time?

Posted by: ebonystone at January 20, 2008 4:01 PM

Kay, aunty dhimmi and interestinconundrum

spot on!

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 20, 2008 4:10 PM

Islam is a sick cult without any description or bounds. I don't believe there is a cure for the absolute f..-up brain like you see in these blooding pictures.

Keep Islam out of West. We don't need sick cult here. If we ever need one, we will grow one our own.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at January 20, 2008 4:14 PM

Islam is a sick cult without any description or bounds. I don't believe there is a cure for the absolute f..-up brains like you see in these blooding pictures.

Keep Islam out of West. We don't need sick cult here. If we ever need one, we will grow one our own.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at January 20, 2008 4:17 PM

I think it would be very magnanmous of the Amerike to allow an Assura march along ground zero....it would be peaceful, no one will be killed and yet the flow of blood on that ground will somehow infuse with the blood of the 3000 killed there.

I have a better plan, Naseem. Why don't 3000 of your finest martyrs visit Ground Zero, this September 11th (without their bombs). They could cut their heads and beat their breasts, if they would like to, while the families and friends of those who died on 9/11, 2001 mow them down with any weapon of their choice. Afterward, they could be burned dead or alive, in a simulation of what happened to so many of those WTC victims

Finally, you would have some genuine martyrs, rather than murderers, to brag about.

The emotion would be exhilirating...

Actually, your high holy day sounds miserable, to me.

womens beating their breasts wailing...

That is truly a dignified spectacle, I'm sure. Do they ululate, too?

bare chested men with chains...

Like in a biker bar?

it would make up for a march never to be forgotten....this is what I woould hope to see.

Naseem! Surely you can't mean that you would like to see deceased infidels accorded the same honor in death that is now reserved for this most revered saint? How very un-islamic of you!

Posted by: Abscedere at January 20, 2008 4:28 PM

Memo on upcoming Assura celebrations:

The Goal: Demonstrate to the world how the Religion of Peace celebrates its noble faith and rich cultural heritage during the annual holiday.

The Plan:
Assemble mobs of bleeding zombies with self inflicted wounds, to chant and march on bloodsoaked, corpse strewn streets while bombs explode, bullets fly, and the body count rises towards triple digits.

Note: Some in the West may not agree 100% with our Plan, but that can be attributed to Islamophobia.

Posted by: Xero G at January 20, 2008 4:56 PM

Assalamau Laikum Abscedere,

You said "Why don't 3000 of your finest martyrs visit Ground Zero, this September 11th (without their bombs). the families and friends of those who died on 9/11, 2001 mow them down with any weapon of their choice".

Well I never....eeeever would have imagined it.

Here we have a grown woman and a practicing (peaceful?) christian to boot... advocating ....yes advocating cold bloodied murder of 3000 innocent muslims.

Yes, Abscedere...these peoples may want to cut their heads open...and let the blood flow...but they were not responsible for 9/11...yet you want other christians to join you in an orgy of killing using all manner of weapons.., guns, bombs, knives, axes, etc. like so many of your grandchilderns do in those hideous video games these days.

Isabella, Bigcatgirl, greekgurl, dumle-what's-his- name's army....Let it be shown on record here today ...that christian thinking is not all about forgivness....it can be just as coloured as other peaceful religions.

Now we all know what you think Abscedere....and it ain't peaceful or pretty or smelling full of roses....but still I say "peace be unto you"

Allah Hafiz

Posted by: Naseem at January 20, 2008 5:07 PM

Naseem,

I have a better idea: why not organize a Christan procession -- crosses and all - over the spot these 68 Muslim pirgrims were murdered.

Since Christians had nothing to do with murdering these people, there would be no question of defiling the site.

Posted by: rational at January 20, 2008 5:46 PM

Here we have a grown woman and a practicing (peaceful?) christian to boot...

I never said I was a good Christian. And I never claimed to be peaceful, either.

advocating ....yes advocating cold bloodied murder of 3000 innocent muslims.

Oh my! What a shock! Were you wearing hijab when you danced in the streets on 9/11, Naseem, or a full burqa?

You might want to read my post again. I suggested that martyrs, (volunteers, willing to die for their faith) come to be slain in the glorious way of Allah.

This would by no means be cold-blooded. Cold-blooded, is killing just to kill. You know what I mean-- Like flying airplanes into buildings, just for the fun of it. I'm suggesting revenge. It's a different thing.

Yes, Abscedere...these peoples may want to cut their heads open...and let the blood flow...

Utterly disgusting. A display of mass hysteria.

but they were not responsible for 9/11...yet you want other christians to join you

I said nothing about other Christians. Do you think everyone who died on that day was a Christian? Do you think every family that lost someone that day was a Christian family? It was only a plan.

I thought the activity might assuage some of the grief, frustration, and anger of the friends and families of the WTC victims. I wasn't asking for the opportunity to be extended to me.

You presented a plan. Yours involved the desecration of a certain sight, where a certain really bad thing happened to a lot of innocent people.

in an orgy of killing using all manner of weapons.., guns, bombs, knives, axes, etc. like so many of your grandchilderns do in those hideous video games these days.

You have a gift for hyperbole, Naseem. I said nothing about guns, knives, axes, etc. You are the one naming weapons, here. (note: I did say "bomb". I suggested your martyrs come without their bombs.)

Now we all know what you think Abscedere....and it ain't peaceful or pretty or smelling full of roses....

I've never striven to hide what I think. Unlike you, I am generally forthright, and I don't usually say things for the sake of inflaming the sensibilities of other people.

but still I say "peace be unto you"

Don't waste your hypocrisy on me.

Posted by: Abscedere at January 20, 2008 6:05 PM

Greetings to everyone on Jihad Watch.

I have used this website for about a month now trawling through the articles and posts and have came up to the conlcusion that the western media is doing it's job. Rarely do you ever see anything positive reported in the west's media when Islam is concerned. Now you will say Islam has nothing positive. But why is it you never hear about the Hajj when a million or more people from every race and background gather together.

Anything that shows Muslim unity or Islam with a positive image is a 'no-no'. Very few Western reporters offer you the stories after considering both sides of the story. When they do employ a neutral stance in their reporting they are heckled and dicredited. Take Robert Fisk for example. Who is a brilliant journalist and has won countless awards for his war reporting. His arguably the most neutral western journalist you will ever find. He was there when the coalition invaded Iraq. With the interviews and points he had gathered from both sides of the war; he wrote his stories, but it wasn't what the coalition wanted you to hear. From being a man who was universally renowned for his reporting he has turned into this controversial figure who cannot be trusted.
Al-Jazeera is another example. They gave the world the real stories of what was happening in Iraq. They showed the graphic nature of the war and were not biased in their reporting whether they dealt with civilians casulties or coalition. Becuase of this fact the coalition turned on them and labelled them as a terrorist organistion. They bombed their offices in Afghanistan; attacked them wherever their reporters happened to be and even imprisoned reporters as terrorists.
So with all the news stories you have listened to since 9/11, I really don't blame you for having this distorted view of Islam. If all you hear is negative stories how can you have anyother view other than a negative one?

You are made to believe Islam discriminates against woman. Islam is violent. Islam hates everything about the West and it's people and Islam is hell-bent on attacking infidels. This is blatant propaganda and is a very powerful tool because without it there is no way you would allow Bush to still be in Iraq.

All of these negative stories have made you believe: 'hell, these guys are crazy, we have to be in Iraq'.

Western people have something the rest of the world envies including me. It's you're open-mindedness, you're tolerance and im speaking of the majority, not all. It's this very thing about you that is been attacked and it's being done not by terrorists but by the people that you brought into power. They want to destroy these qaulities until nothing can make you believe otherwise.

As much you might not like to admit it, the people in power in your contry have forced you into a state of constant fear and apprehension. You are told: 'be alert there might be terrorist attack today'. Why? It's to scare you so you don't question the motives behind the 'war on terror'.

Without these well-structured stories, you would be protesting in you're millions to get the troops out of Iraq. That's anarchy; the Bush administration would never want that. Without these stories you would be asking yourselves in your millions: What are our troops dying for? If it's for the freedom of the Iraqi people fair enough you liberated them. So let them decide their own future. Don't install governments that they obviously haven't voted for and call it democracy because they are not stupid.

If it's to destroy terrorists who want to attack you then why are you in Iraq. There was no suicide bombers in Iraq before the invasion. There was no attacks on western soil by Iraqi's or Afghanis. Even 9/11 had nothing to do with them.

You're president lied to you; it's a proven fact. With that lie he constantly enforces it with these negative stories, so that one by one, he can rid the middle-east of any leaders who might endanger the country by... denying them that valuable 'black gold'; Oil.

It's got nothing to do with you're freedom or the freedom of the people in Iraq or Afghanistan.

So im not suprised you have this view of Islam because naturally you're going to assume that what these guys do must have something to do with their scripture. But if you look and take the time to read the Quran, you will realise that none of the things happening in today's world can be attributed to Islam. That includes these people who cut themselves on some fictional day called Ashura. Muslims aren't even allowed to weep and bellow in the funeral's of their loved ones, never mind cutting and beating themselves with chains.

That also includes suicide bombers, 9/11, female discrimination, oppressive rulers, honour killings, you name it. They have nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. But then again it's not my role to condemn these people for their actions that is the role of our lord on the day of reckoning.

Now I must stress that this is not an attack on you personally. Only a reminder that you're media is censored to continue a war that will eventually spiral out of control. You have it in you to end this mindless killing which has no objective other than greed. Don't bring in another Bush by voting for these mad Republicans because they will only continue to stay in Iraq and destabilise the world.

I've lived in the west for most of my life. I see these problems first-hand. I have nothing against the western people because I know you want peace just as Muslims do. But you're enemies are not the muslims it is the very people who are there to speak for you. They are the terrorists who terrorise you to believe something which isn't true.
My message to you is: don't judge a book by it's cover. It's a western saying ironically. If the western media was fair, there would be no way, you would think of Islam the way you do now.

Peace

Posted by: thesaracen at January 20, 2008 6:45 PM

Allah Hafiz

Posted by: Naseem at January 20, 2008 5:07 PM

There is no "Allah," you duped-by-Mohammed Mohammedan. NO ALLAH! Do you get it?!

"Rarely do you ever see anything positive reported in the west's media when Islam is concerned." -- posted by thesaracen

There's many good reasons for that, saracen. Islam IS violent (see Koran) and Islam DOES discriminate against women -HELLO! EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOWS THAT SIMPLE FACT, saracen!

Posted by: darcy at January 20, 2008 7:05 PM

darcy-
wow, well you're exactly the type of person that I don't want to engage with. If you believe Allah doesn't exist, good for you. Islam is violent and it discriminates against woman, fair enough. That's you're oppinion and you're entitled to it. I only have time on here for the people who know exactly what my pervious post is about and are willing to discuss it.

Posted by: thesaracen at January 20, 2008 7:17 PM

hi everyone,
i am new to posting here, but have been a reader at this site for a couple years or more now.
keep up the good work Mr. Spencer, we need more people who will speak the truth about this so called religion of peace.

also, maybe they cover their heads from all the self inflicted mutilitions? just a thought.

Posted by: river at January 20, 2008 7:18 PM

Thesaracen,

Hi. On the subject of Iraq, I think that you'll find that just about everyone who visits JW on regular basis will certainly agree with you.

The media is extremely biased and opinionated, but there was coverage of the Hajj on several major news forums & newspapers. I can't recall exact names, but it was one them that reminded me that was happening.

P.S. I like your reformed style.

Posted by: boneshack at January 20, 2008 7:21 PM

Thank you boneshack you're a person I have a great deal of time for my freind. You're also an honest man.

All I ask of you and Jihad watch regulars is to look at both sides of the story.

If Robert Spencer says mulims discriminate against woman by all means read what he has to say. But you will never be able to get a clear picture unless you look at the whole picture.

Spencer qoutes passages from the Quran, look at the Quran or google the exact passage! There are some words that you are skeptical of for example 'beating'.
But remember the Quran was only revealed in Arabic and its not so easy to translate into different languages- such is its use of language- which have different cultures and different meanings for words.

Find as much information as possible from both sides of the spectrum. Anything you may wish to discuss I will be more than happy to discuss as long as you're open-minded.

May god guide everyone on Jihad watch to the right path.

Posted by: thesaracen at January 20, 2008 7:53 PM

Thesaracen,

Thank you, and I'll say the same for you.

Although the picture associated with the article was negative, and certainly convey a negative image of Islam to non-muslims, that wasn't the point of the article.

So let's stay focused. Here's the crux of the story:

"The street battles between members of a messianic cult and Iraqi troops raged for a second day as the death toll from the fighting in two predominantly Shiite southern cities rose from 50 to at least 68."

This cult would be the "Twelvers", those who desire the return of the "Hidden Imam", correct?

68 people were killed. That is tragic. The article continues:

"There were conflicting accounts about how the clashes erupted, but all signs pointed to the radical Shiite group, which last year mounted a ferocious attack after Iraqi security forces raided its stronghold near the holy city of Najaf to foil an alleged plot to slaughter pilgrims and leading clerics during Ashoura."

We all know that Sunni Muslims don't have much love for Shia Muslims (okay, none), but maybe you might have a better understanding of why these types of stories "don't play well in Peoria."

What's your take on Hugh's commentary at 9.24am, above?

Posted by: boneshack at January 20, 2008 8:23 PM

"BAGHDAD - Hundreds of thousands of frenzied Shiites beat their heads and chests in unison and whipped themselves with chains Saturday across Iraq to honor the martyrdom of one of their most revered saints. The processions were marred by violence with a deadly bombing in northern Iraq and clashes south of Baghdad."

Why would any good Shiite mind dying after all of that? Seems like the logical next step.

Posted by: solomonpal at January 20, 2008 8:36 PM

ISLAM: the cutting-edge religion.

(Styptic pencils sold seperately.)

Posted by: profitsbeard at January 20, 2008 8:45 PM

Totally OT:

Hi All,

I just had to share my joyous news with my JW/DW friends, and that's that I'm going to be a first time grandmother! My daughter called this morning with the HAPPY news, so I had to share it with you as well (sorry that this is OT).

Wow - a grandmother - I am just bursting with joy!! :-)

Posted by: champ at January 20, 2008 8:49 PM

Congradulations Champ!

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at January 20, 2008 9:05 PM

Congratulations, Champ!

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 9:08 PM

But remember the Quran was only revealed in Arabic and its not so easy to translate into different languages- such is its use of language- which have different cultures and different meanings for words.

As you wish, I'll be civil, but this is really old. You've got to know that 80% of the Ummah either is non-Arabic, doesn't know Arabic and even in the 20% that does, the understanding of Quranic Arabic is to them what most of us would experience with 16th century King James' English. Regardless, most of the problems outlined above - honor killings, jihadi activity, discrimination against Infidels, et al happen evenly wherever Muslims are in control, regardless of whether they know Arabic or not. In other words, the status of women is as wretched in Jordan or Saudi Arabia as it is in Pakistan. The plight of Christians in Indonesia is as pitiable as they are in Iraq or Egypt.

May god guide everyone on Jihad watch to the right path.

I'll post an article describing the Arabic language issue separately below. Go ahead and address it.
Please convince me that you are not calling for our conversion to Islam. Mohammed did the same for the rulers of Byzantium and Persia, and look what happened.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 9:18 PM

For thesaracen:

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 9:29 PM

Champ,

That's wonderful! Congratulations!

Posted by: Abscedere at January 20, 2008 9:34 PM

Thank you, Mrockroll1969!

Thank you, Infidel Pride!

Thank you, Abscedere!

You guys are great, thanks again!

Posted by: champ at January 20, 2008 9:49 PM

Infidel Pride,

A most excellent summary. Unfortunately, I don't think these points will be passed around on a memo to all the Imams who would certainly disagree with said points. Blinders are, well, blinders.

I guess I'd better learn Hebrew and Greek if I'm going to understand my own "Books".

Posted by: boneshack at January 20, 2008 10:02 PM

Champ-- congratulations!

Hey, there's an idea... "Not a Dhimmi" bibs and onesies. Prob'ly not enough demand though, alas.

Posted by: MarisolJW at January 20, 2008 10:03 PM

From thesaracen: I have used this website for about a month now trawling through the articles and posts...

You obviously need to spend additional time trawling because all your Muslim apologist talking points have already been thoroughly examined and debunked (or "defisked" in honor of your hero) at this website. And why don't you also study the meaning and use of the words; they're, their and there for your future posts, should "they're" be any.

Posted by: Xero G at January 20, 2008 10:21 PM

Thanks, Marisol! Very clever idea about the bibs and diapers!

Posted by: champ at January 20, 2008 10:29 PM

Marisol

For the diapers, have a crescent & star lining the insides. For the diapers, demand will be there - have you seen how many times they need to be changed?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 10:45 PM

boneshack

Guess I'll need to learn Sanskrit - never mind all the myriad versions of the Puranas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat and other books that I've read in their English translations. I must have them all wrong.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 10:48 PM

thesaracen

Any comments?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 11:02 PM

Infidel Pride,

Well, I'd guess we had better quit our day jobs and start learning!

I would suppose that I am double screwed because Hebrew and Greek are not based on the Latin alphabet. LOL!

Posted by: boneshack at January 20, 2008 11:02 PM

"Now you will say Islam has nothing positive. But why is it you never hear about the Hajj when a million or more people from every race and background gather together."

A million people at the Hajj doesn't prove anything positive about Islam, any more than a million people at the Nuremburg rallies proves anything positive about the Nazis.

This sounds like the old "a billion people can't be wrong" argument employed by Muslims, as if it were evidence of Islam's devine orgins.

Numbers and fervor have never, and will never, prove anything positive about an ideology, religion, or movement. The NAZIS, Communist and Islam prove this.

"A tree is known by the fruit that it bears." If a society that is dominated by an ideology or religion is dysfunctional, oppressive, and denies its people the most basic human rights, it is the fruit of a diseased tree, and wherever Islam dominates, you find the same rotten fruit.

If people at this site don't have a great deal of positive things to say about Islam, it's because there's not much positive one can say about it. We leave it to the apologists to concoct positive things to say about Islam. As for me, give me reality or give me death.

My God, fellow, take a look at the Islamic world, and tell us that that there's enough positives that you would fell comfortable living in it.

Posted by: rational at January 20, 2008 11:13 PM

IP,

Thesaracen is in the UK, and it is now 3.14a there.

He'll be back tomorrow.

Posted by: boneshack at January 20, 2008 11:15 PM

Infidel Pride-- I wasn't talking diapers, but onesies, also known as creepers (here's an example).

Re-usable. Great for family gatherings.

Posted by: MarisolJW at January 21, 2008 12:07 AM

Thesaracen, perhaps you could enlighten us on the positive aspects of islam. I'll just be damned if I can find any and believe me, I've been looking for over twenty years.

Your comments regarding the media's biased and negative coverage of islam and muslims are ludicrous and blatantly false. WEstern media bend over backwards to obfuscate the truth about islam. Newspapers, television, radio, magazines, and every other media outlet have two approaches to all matters islamic---sugary lies or the deliberate omission of pertinent facts that would portray islam and muslims in a bad light. This website is one of the few places on earth where people can get the facts about islam and learn what fanatical muslims are doing and saying. Since everything muslims do or say that is newsworthy happens to involve violence, hate, intolerance or terrorism, I suppose you would prefer that the media entirely ignore all muslim atrocities and just pretend they didn't happen. Muslims and islam are getting all the breaks they can expect and they should be grateful to the pusillanimous press for its profound devotion to and promotion of holy diversity, multiculturalism, and moral relativism. Objectivity, frankness, truth, and non-partiality are non-existent in today's news media.

Every issue you raised has been thoroughly debunked on this site. If you really think that we're a bunch of ignorant, indoctrinated disciples of Robert Spencer who have no knowledge of islam beyond this website and Mr. Spencer's books, you truly insult our intellect. How could you read the articles posted here every day and find our comments more disturbing than them?!

If you know any muslim altruists, philanthropists, or charitable tycoons who engage in generous and tolerant acts for the betterment of mankind, including non-muslims, please name them. If you know one muslim who does not consider himself superior to non-muslims and does not wish to impose islam and sharia on the world, please name him. If you know a single muslim humanitarian who reaches out to all people and not just muslims, please name him. Don't tell us that we have been misled about islam and that the qur'an cannot be translated----WE ARE NOT MORONS.

Posted by: Susanp at January 21, 2008 12:18 AM

Ha Ha, Marisol! I thought you were talking about diapers - guess I'm a little rusty :-)

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 12:22 AM

Dear Susanp: Hear, hear. That post was right on target. Read about sharia creep in Canada at the top of www.darrellepp.com

Posted by: dorothee at January 21, 2008 12:23 AM

Now that's funny. Ole Naseem drops her bomb...kicks back for a while and returns to peruse the responses until she finds one that she can attempt to manipulate. A good thing I didn't post first as I would have been her target for sure. All I could think when I read her proposal was, "how obscene."

First... I know that there are devoted Muslims out there in the world that are trying to take their religion back from the dark ages it is slipping in to at the hands of the Taliban and the like. I know full well that not every Muslim out there is out to kill me or force me to submit. Okay? It's the ones that hack little school girls up because they are not Muslim that I have a hard time with and would very much like to see dead.

The significance of such a procession is not lost on me. I see it for the celebration the radical Muslim worldwide would see it for. That you would see it for. We would not stand for that any more than having that walking virus, Ahmadinejad visit the site.

I am not fooled in the least by your or others seemingly reasonable postings defending Islam. Particularly you Naseem, when you sound so reasonable at first...then seize upon one response, twist it to suit you, embellish upon it, filling it with your imagined weapons and spew vitriol in your response as a defense of your supposedly wounded Muslim soul.

Hell Naseem...I think if you ask you'll find that the vast majority of the posters here are not "good Christians." And most certainly except for a few nutcakes that I've seen from time to time, no one here wants to slaughter innocent people period.

The hatred you have for us is evident every time you post. Your contempt is equally evident in your lectures to us poor unenlightened ones and the insulting tone of your posts. This would seem to be your standard operating procedure. And by the way...I don't hate you at all...I pity you. I see someone that desperately wants to believe that what they've been told to believe is true. Why else would you return here to try and convince us? We are clearly not worth your time otherwise.

I believe I qualify as an agnostic but I will gladly defend anyones religion against the tyranny of Islam. I believe that you will find that the majority of the Jihadwatch crowd here are more concerned with remaining free to make their own choices in life rather than being overly concerned with serving any particular God.

If so many of your brothers and sisters weren't going around killing Buddhist Monks and members of every other religion on the planet because they aren't Muslims, I might find some value in your words of peace. I know them for what they are. Deceit. Deception. War.
Your own Holy book tells you when to lie and how. I have some simple questions for any Muslim poster here.
Do you want to see Sharia law replace the Constitution?
Do you want Sharia law to replace the present courts?
If so then you are my enemy. You cannot take my freedom from me with slick arguments and persuasive words if you can't answer "NO" to those two questions. Get it? The only time I will submit, is when I submit to death.
Is this so difficult a concept to grasp? That I would rather die free than submit? I guess if you grow up as a slave in any setting, it's difficult to see freedom for what it is. Poor Naseem. To reject freedom so vigorously...what has been done to her?

Has anyone seen this? Britain is doomed unless they wake up. Naseem may soon have cause to rejoice.
"We want to offer sharia law to Britain" It all sounds so reasonable, until the first hand is cut off, or the first stoning occurs. So reasonable...Political Correctness will end our freedom unless we end Political Correctness.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/20/nsharia_120.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox

Posted by: Alaskan at January 21, 2008 12:49 AM

Champ-

All the best with the diminutive newcomer!

(Although their lungpower is anything but.)

Teach them that the stars are a time machine in the skies every night, and to keep dreaming of the future, and they'll be as good as their Grandmom.

Posted by: profitsbeard at January 21, 2008 1:00 AM

Thanks, Profitsbeard! That was such a sweet thing to say. You always have a way with words! :-)

Hugs to you and All!

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 1:25 AM

For thesaracen:

There is no evidence that Arabic, or Classical Arabic, is especially difficult for translators to translate, compared to other languages. In fact it has been translated successfully.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2008 9:29 PM

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 21, 2008 1:32 AM

Incidentally, general historical info for all about the Saracens.

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 21, 2008 1:38 AM

Let's take TheSaracen's arguments seriously, if he starts taking us seriously.

Who knows! Maybe he'll become the next Muslim who gets it.

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 21, 2008 1:51 AM

Shy Guy,

Please review this thread, especially the last 30 or so posts. You'll begin to understand 'Thesaracen' and his thinking, in addition to his posts previously on this thread.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019615.php#comments

Posted by: boneshack at January 21, 2008 2:09 AM

Oh. Sorry. Lost cause. Wasted typing.

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 21, 2008 2:24 AM

Shy Guy,

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I'm sorry.

Posted by: boneshack at January 21, 2008 2:45 AM

Boneshack, I didn't think you were. :) I took your advice, read his prior posts and drawed conclusions.

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 21, 2008 3:16 AM

Assalauam Laikum Champ,

As my Kafur sister let me congratulate you on the addition to your immediate family.

You did not say whether it was a boy or girl...but never mind.

I will buy a little candy from the local halvie here and offer it to neighbors as a celebration of a child to my adopted sister's family.

I will offer dua to Allah SWT on behalf of the little one for his/her health and well being.

I only ask that you please teach the little one in the way of Islam too... parents pollute...and the opportunity to teach them about the lord is lost...you will not want to be disappointed.

Many congratulations once again

Allah Hafiz

Posted by: Naseem at January 21, 2008 5:05 AM

Congratulations Champ.
Pay no attention to attention grabber Naseem.
You're not her 'sister' and she does not wish you well...

My message to you is: don't judge a book by it's cover. It's a western saying ironically. If the western media was fair, there would be no way, you would think of Islam the way you do now.
Peace
Posted by: thesaracen

I read your book. Fairness is not required, only truth. Your book has little of that...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 21, 2008 8:59 AM

"But why is it you never hear about the Hajj when a million or more people from every race and background gather together. "
Posted by: thesaracen

...because that statement is not true....When one goes to the Hajj he will not see Jews, Christians, Hindus, Budditst, Seventh Day Aventists, Mormons, Zororastians, Assyrians, or any other NonMuslims....they are unwelcome and could be killed if they arrived to pray for peace as the Muslims do.....oooops my bad, that is not what the Muslims pray for....

Ban Muslim immigration...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 21, 2008 10:17 AM

"...but all signs pointed to the radical Shiite group, which last year mounted a ferocious attack after Iraqi security forces raided its stronghold near the holy city of Najaf to foil an alleged plot to slaughter pilgrims and leading clerics during Ashoura.,,,,"

....would this mark the return of AL-Sadrs group to the limelight....

Muslims slaughtering Muslims on a prayer Pilgramage.....I guess there is no right way to pray in Islam....

7th century buffoons...one and all...

Ban Muslim immigration...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 21, 2008 10:21 AM

Impossible to translate the Kuran?

Not true!

There exists a very good translation by one Adolf Hitler. The title is Mein Kampf.

Admittedly, this is not a literal translation, but what is important is not the letter but spirit. And Mein Kampf catches and conveys the spirit of Kuran most faithfully.

It is as stupid, vulgar, hateful and BORING as the original.

Posted by: thomas. h at January 21, 2008 11:06 AM

Thanks, duh_swami!

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 12:40 PM

Naseem -

I stated that I'm "going" to be a grandma, so that means my grandbaby hasn't been born yet; and it's too early to tell whether they're having a precious boy or a sweet little girl.

"I only ask that you please teach the little one in the way of Islam too... parents pollute...and the opportunity to teach them about the lord is lost...you will not want to be disappointed"....from Naseem.

Islam is evil and headed for a fall, so why would I want my grandchild, or anyone for that matter, to board a train that's destined to crash & burn? A train that's driven by Mad-Men chasing after a false god with false promises.

Plus, I'm strongly against child abuse, so that makes two significant reasons why I will never speak favorably about Islam. No child should be exposed to it's evil agenda. No thanks!

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 1:02 PM

...Islamic version of the "chain gang"...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 21, 2008 2:41 PM

That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang
That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang
All day long they work so hard till the sun is goin' down
Working on the highways and byways and wearin', wearin' a frown
Hear them moanin' their lives away
Then you hear somebody say
That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang
That's the sound of the men working on the chain gang

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 21, 2008 2:46 PM

HA HA HA, exsgtbrown - that's hilarious!

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 3:28 PM

boneshack- sorry about the delay to your question as you quite rightly pointed out it was very late indeed.
To answer your question, if your asking me about Shi'a Islam I can only give you my basic
knowledge.

Shia Islam came about purely from Shi'as not accepting the Caliphate after the death of the Prophet pbuh. They reject the caliphate all together and say that Abu bakr as-Sadiq forcefully took the succession away from Ali. If you have ever read any book on the companions of the Prophet pbuh, you will quickly realise that they were no ordinary men. They were people of piety and devotion to Islam that were an exmaple to all muslims; at the time and until the end of time. Some of them gave up fame, fortune, comfort, everything in the worship of one god, and were persecuted relentlessly for it.

There is one question I would love to ask a Shi'a and I think he would have problems answering. Prophet Muhammed pbuh was a man of exquisite character and wisdom. He was chosen by god to teach and spread Islam. Do they then not think that the Prophet pbuh would have not chosen a successor before he left this world?
If for the sake of argument what Shi'as say is true where would Islam have been after the death of the Prophet pbuh? Allah swt in his infinite knowledge and wisdom knows the future and would have reminded Muhammed pbuh had he not chosen a successor.

Regrading Hugh's post, I don't know who Muhammad Al-Mahdi is nor do I believe he is in occultation. Sunni muslims believe a mahdi will appear at the end of time to fight the anti-christ. But my knowledge of this topic is very vague and I hope soon that Allah swt may guide me to knowledge on the matter.
The majority of Shia's are 'twelvers' meaning they believe in twelve imams. Starting with the son in law of the Prophet pbuh Ali ibn abi talib and ending with the twelfth imam Muhammed al-mahdi.

There are many other differences but the ones I have just mentioned are the well-known diferences.

Although I don't think I have convered everything as fully as I can, I hope it is enoug to answer your question boneshack. Like I said anything you wish to discuss with me feel free to do so.

Posted by: thesaracen at January 21, 2008 4:09 PM

Thesaracen,

Thanks. I was under the impression that Muhammed did not, indeed, name a successor.

Nonetheless, my point still remains that there sure is whole lot of senseless slaughter over the mere point of who succeeded whom. And by all accounts, this slaughter is a two-way street (between Sunnis and Shi'ites.)

You come across as a tolerant, peaceful, and rational person. It's quite easy for us to draw the connections (i.e., connect the dots) when put in perspect of the Koran.

So you'll have to bear with us or wariness of Islam when there sure is much "kill kill kill behead slaughter Hell-fire pigs and apes smite kill kill kill" the non-believers.

From a Christian or Jewish or Hindu point of view, the non-believers are us! And I can't begin to count how many times your "learned" Imams, leaders, and fellow believers affirm this belief.

Posted by: boneshack at January 21, 2008 4:41 PM

And to think that Saddam suppressed this barbaric behavior...

Posted by: eloivsdiablo at January 21, 2008 4:57 PM

Assalamau Laikum Saracen,

I assuem you are a sunni, I am Ahmadi from Lahore.

As you can see I am not shia, but slightly cut and bleeding heads, mensfolk "chaining and caning" themselves while marching may not be high on your list of attractions to see...never the less it is a surreal and facinating sight....at least once in a lifetime.

It opens your eyes (for some in more ways than one) to the faith and power that lies within Islam ...despite some of the petty differences.

You will see no such power within Christianity.

Posted by: Naseem at January 21, 2008 5:02 PM

You will see no such power within Christianity.

Posted by: Naseem at January 21, 2008 5:02 PM

Many years ago, before I caught on what Islam was, I had seen posts by a Muslim on a forum boasting of Islam's power and domination. A lust for it, is how I would describe this person's postings.

I'm sure someone can name the sci-fi books/movies where the evil entity in the story became more evil by accumulating more brute physical strength and power, gloating over it as if it was creation's purpose.

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 21, 2008 5:16 PM

champ-I am a muslim born and raised. I've never been abused. Never seen it happen to any of my brothers and sisters or any of my muslim freinds whether they are male or female. Islam is not evil if it was a lot of muslims would not be muslims. There are issues such as Jihad which make it seem evil to you but thats you're culture thats you're upbringing and beliefs