Is this legal?
The police should be arresting those blood-thirsty animals....

Oh, they are so peaceful....send them home...

Posted by: Al-Insan-El-kamel at January 21, 2008 7:19 PM

My God, what are these Barbarians doing here? Why are we letting them be here?

Posted by: darcy at January 21, 2008 7:23 PM

did anyone offer to sharpen his sword???

Posted by: ??? at January 21, 2008 7:26 PM

"Shi'ites believe it to be a statement against violence."

Oh yeah - kinda like Jihad is an internal struggle that somehow turns bloody - I get it.

If they want to make a statement against violence then all they have to do is visit their local crafts store and make a lawn sign by picking up a poster board and a marking pen:

"I STAND AGAINST VIOLENCE"

See how easy that would be - and it's not so bloody.

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 7:28 PM

Eck! Gross! Didn't this go out of fashion in the West after the Black Plague?

Posted by: tanstaafl at January 21, 2008 7:28 PM

Looks like a Freudian example of menses envy gone to their head.

Posted by: profitsbeard at January 21, 2008 7:38 PM

"menses envy"....that is so bloody funny!!

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 7:54 PM

There is a passage in the Book of Mark that states that "true" believers can handle snakes without being harmed. However, even though some churches did require their members to handle snakes in the past, "snake-handling as proof of faith" is illegal in the United States today.

There are ideas that are repeated more frequently (love/serve your neighbor, be kind, patient, etc.) in the Bible that are ignored. Clearly, those who choose to focus on one obscure statement in their "Christian" faith can only be described as extremists.

I doubt that any lawmaker will step up to the plate and ban this barbaric shiite practice of self-flagellation. I certainly hope that press coverage itself will lead to embarrassment and the negative perception this practice so richly deserves.

Posted by: 3812Michelle at January 21, 2008 7:54 PM

Surely health insurance wouldn't cover any injuries needing medical attention?

Posted by: Lili at January 21, 2008 7:58 PM

First it was gross, but not that bad. Then I saw the guy in the back caressing his man boobs. I threw up in my mouth a little at that point.

Posted by: Beagle at January 21, 2008 7:58 PM

Well, some posters were asking yesterday why can't we all have it here? Looks like our wish....

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 21, 2008 8:07 PM

Well, to be fair, there are Christians who self-flagellate and even crucify themselves. I've got gigabytes of complaints about Islam, but Ashura isn't near the top of the list. The holiday of goat slaughtering in the streets is much worse.

Posted by: Beagle at January 21, 2008 8:11 PM

Every person their should be fired from what ever job they have they are not stable and untrustworthy .

Posted by: GrennBeck at January 21, 2008 8:13 PM

Letting these people into our country is madness. I would support President Bush's impeachment over his benighted immigration policies.

He is mad - or very, very stupid. What difference does it make?

Posted by: Havoc at January 21, 2008 8:32 PM

If it took place on public streets then it is a health hazard because of the blood splatter not because of their right to beat them selves senseless!!!!!

Posted by: OLD SARGE at January 21, 2008 8:34 PM

Honestly? I don't care if these adult assholes want to do that to themselves. What I don't like? Their kids see this and are pressured into repeating the blood ritual. That's vile. And it's for THAT reason alone that I think it should be outlawed or mandated that no one under 21 can practice that kind of public self-mutilation.

Anyway. It's a terrible tradition. It's mental illness. That's a fact. There is no way anyone could reasonably say that whipping yourself into a bloody mess and a europoric frenzy is normal, healthy, civilized behavior. Foul behavior it is...

And you know what? As I type this out the thought, "This should be outlawed.", keeps creeping into my mind. I can't help it. I guess my common sense and empathy toward young children of Shiite Mulsim parents is too strong to be indiscriminate.

Posted by: antishock8 at January 21, 2008 8:41 PM

A caption for the above photo...

'I fought the ghost, and the ghost won...'

These people are very charming, can't wait to have them over for dinner.

Posted by: duh_swami at January 21, 2008 9:05 PM

Muslims need to take this barbaric tribal meat-tenderizing practice back to their homeland and bloody themselves over there.

Self mutilation sounds so satanic in origin - must make allah very proud.

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 9:05 PM

"These people are very charming, can't wait to have them over for dinner".....yeah, invite them over to a Barbaric-Barbeque and then put them in charge of tenderizing the steaks and serving bloody mary cocktails.

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 9:09 PM

I'm curious as to how many of these bloody bastards drop dead from trying to one up the next guy.

Posted by: Bosch Fawstin at January 21, 2008 9:13 PM

As I write the issue of reasonable-accomodation (Consultative Commission on Practical Accomodation of Cultural Differences) of ethnic minorities - read: muslims - is being debated in the Canadian province of Quebec. Unfortunately, it is being conducted by the Hegelian leftist philosopher, Charles Taylor (a founding member of the New Left Review). The forum works like this: Someone speaks: Taylor discusses what he has just heard, in context of his own dogma on useful diversity (read: using muslim radicalism as a tool for advancing the left-Statist agenda) and issues a final determination. So why produce a final report when Taylor has already taken consideration of contentious issues, and settled same? Why? Because the muslim enemy enjoy Show Trials, to their benefit. Where muslim aggression seeks venting, our dhimmi leadership ALWAYS defers to the degenerate slaves of allah.

Nobody made anything about Bush's hand holding with the Saudi genocidal leadership. The leader of the Free World engaged in the Wahabi bedouin near-kiss on the lips, with the worst terrorist in the world. Again, nothing was made of this act of abject servitude to America's mortal enemy. Was Bush - whose crime family are Saudi slaves - only reasonably accomodating Saudi cultural expectations? Hardly. American athletes alone, refused to direct national Olympic banners towards Hitler at the Berlin Olympics in 1936. President Reagan - and wife - refused to accomodate English monarchial tradition, during visits to the UK. The list goes on.

Reminder: the House of Saud has no family roots within 1000 miles from the Arabian oil patch. Those fields were under an Anglo-American protectorate before circumstances - which no longer exist - compelled a paper transfer of sovereignty to the Saud terrorist entity, which was supposed to exist as a quasi colonial client entity. Sovereignty must be repatriated to the actual owners of those fields. But would the oil patch be torched, as happened in Kuwait, in the event of invasion? Maybe, but so doing would be an act of war, and would serve the pretext for the total annihilation of the "kingdom." As for fires, the Kuwait fires were put out within 6 months, and oil was being re-drawn in some sectors within weeks. In addition, the Saud fields are in deep pockets, which enables easy targeting for restoration. Would oil prices go crazy? Probably. But non-market controls would be established. And the US has a huge oil reserve. Could the Strait of Hormuz be cut off. Not without another war of annihilation.

Reasonable Accomodation is a kulturkampf code word for: Fraternity of Civilizations (initiated by Spanish, Italian, German Dhimmis, in deference to Turk aggression). Again, our leadership - represented by whores like the Bush Crime Family - is subverting the Clash of Civilizations. It is a surrender to the same wild animals who turned the Mediterranean, Africa and Central and East Asia into a muslim cess pool. We have a choice: fight the muslim beast, or be slaughtered by the billions.

Posted by: supercargo at January 21, 2008 9:16 PM

Hey, Champ!

You're on a roll there! Very funny!

At the BBQ, don't them mighty fine sausages and a nice, delicious pork roast!

On a serious note, though, I could wish that the dhimmi press would pick up on this so that more and more Americans and Canadians could be exposed to this absolutely grotesque and barbaric ritual.

And to think, all this barbarity for the return of a 5 year old child!

Some Messiah, indeed!

Posted by: boneshack at January 21, 2008 9:19 PM

Champ,

ALLAHU AKBARBEQUE!

Gotta say, thought of it myself, but a google search already had it out there.

Posted by: Bosch Fawstin at January 21, 2008 9:24 PM

It's always a pleasure to see Muslims hurting themselves or each other as opposed to innocent bystanders. I personally would leave them alone or egg them on. "Whatarya? A girl?? Harder Mohamed!!! Becha can't cut off your own head." Hahaha.

Posted by: Rick at January 21, 2008 9:48 PM

As if the rite itself isn't bad enough, but those badly shaped bodies in combination with the sicko ceremony makes it truly an awful sight to look at. Not only can one ask where is their common sense but also have they no pride?

Posted by: Wellington at January 21, 2008 9:51 PM

Hey Boneshack! Ha Ha! Yeah, and they can serve up some man-boobs as appetizers! Yummy!...please wax prior to serving.

"ALLAHU AKBARBEQUE!" LOL! Bosch!

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 9:52 PM

U, pardon me for sking, but is that guy on the right playing with his nipples?, YUK!

Posted by: Kemaste at January 21, 2008 9:54 PM

champ-

I think you mean Virgin Mary cocktails.

(One of their prime, posthumous obsessions.)

Posted by: profitsbeard at January 21, 2008 10:03 PM

Several posters have wondered how bad the self-mutilations of Ashoura really are--these are, after all, the actions of adults, no matter how depraved.

Well, there is another aspect to practices surrounding Ashoura, and that is of adults--often their own mothers--bloodying children and even *infants* with swords.
If this has spread to the West, is this going to be considered child abuse, or just cultural expression?

Here's one appaling image, complete with smiling mother and bloody child:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_anQnlU5D4sM/Rbv69C7lBVI/AAAAAAAAALk/am4zQidTy6M/s400/ShiiteAshoura_01.jpg

Posted by: gravenimage at January 21, 2008 10:31 PM

U, pardon me for asking, but is that guy on the right playing with his nipples?, YUK!
Posted by: Kemaste

It's either that or the guy behind him is, double YUK...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 21, 2008 10:31 PM

Isn't he just a picture of happiness? He should be careful though because it looks like that chain could slip and take his head off. Does Allah dish out virgins for accidentally smiting your own head off? From the look on his face it looks like it's already been smitten off.

Posted by: Dsinc at January 21, 2008 10:41 PM

Infidel Pride said

Well, some posters were asking yesterday why can't we all have it here? Looks like our wish....

Well, speaking for myself, I can honestly say I don't want to have it here. But, as long as we're going to allow Islam within our borders, I think it is important that we see all aspects of Islam, without self-censorship.

The worst thing would be to allow Muslims here, and then to deny, cover-up, and ignore their actions here, and to make excuses and rationalizations for their behavior. Which is exactly what our government and media are doing, in the name of multi-cultural political correctness.

Having a slide show on the New York Daily News website is a start, but I'd like to see video of the above bloody sword twirler and the accompanying nipple-massager on ABC, NBC, CNN, CBS, and all the other nightly news programs. Let the talking heads try to convince viewers that it is normal behavior, we are all the same, everybody does it, it's very peaceful, etc. But just let people see it. If it's happening here, let the people see it.

Posted by: special_guest at January 21, 2008 10:45 PM

Update the practice. Send them to their local blood bank and let them donate their blood rather than spill it in the streets.
Now THERE'S a statement against violence!

Posted by: PMK at January 21, 2008 11:04 PM

special_guest

I agree completely. If Islam didn't exist here, I wouldn't want it either. But since we are entertaining or debating footbaths in airports and campii, burkha photos on licenses, Islamic funds (Caribou coffee), honor killings et al, might as well go all the way and see those Ashura festivities as well.

Of course, we'd hear the Sunnis claim how it's only the Shia who do this, and how they object to being smeared with the same brush. But then, aren't the Shia our allies in Iraq if one is pro-GOP, or someone (Iran) we want to talk to, if one is pro-Dem?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 21, 2008 11:07 PM

gravenimage -

OMG! That photo is shocking! Just when I think I've seen it all -- there it is -- a picture more disturbing than any I've seen in the past. A picture of a mother cutting on what appears to be her own child. Barbaric!

My God, that makes me want to cry for the child and for all children treated that way. Look at his sorry little face. I mean, what must be going through his head? He looks like he's in shock. He looks so dismayed. Guy!

And when I think of how hard it was to see my own children bloody their knees or break a bone from everyday playing and horsing around - you have mother's who purposefully commit crimes like this. Insane! Purely insane!

This is not a mother. This is a butcher. Shame on her. uhhh.

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 11:09 PM

Should be great for the kids to see also. Make a change from going to the zoo. So culturally uplifting this statement against violence.

Posted by: Dsinc at January 21, 2008 11:11 PM

Muslim apologists had better not appear on this thread, because I may have to bite your brainseared head off. Sheesh!!

Posted by: champ at January 21, 2008 11:14 PM

Isn't there a dual health hazard? Do they share the sword? Kind of like druggies sharing needles. Spread disease that way. How many of them end up at the doctor or the ER needing treatment or a tetanus shot?

Posted by: PMK at January 21, 2008 11:15 PM

` T H E ~ H I D D E N ~ I M A M
& Successor of The Prophet(saw)

` ` ` H A S ~ R E T U R N E D

` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` as

` H U G H ~ F I T Z G E R A L D !!

` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` Ameen.

` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` * `)

Posted by: John C at January 21, 2008 11:16 PM

Now all these fellas need to is rub a nice spicy barbecue sauce all over their bodies and then have them beat themselves senseless so as to soften their gristly flesh and you have the raw materials for a great pig in a blanket.

Posted by: waltc at January 21, 2008 11:24 PM

The Ashura self-mutiliation rites are gay sadomasochist rituals. Turkish and Persian wrestlers, massage each other prior to battle. In stark contrast, male-female encounters require demonstration of extreme submission by the future "houri" (hymen regenerating, sex slave).

The concept of the "houris" and "sharmuts" as heavenly gifts to violent jihadis, compels both hyper-masculinity, dehumanization of women and sublimation of same in contests. Sublimated homosexuality - like the near lip between President Bush and a Saudi genocidist - is like breathing to a slave-of-allah. The House of Saud SHOULD treat Bush as their sharmut (male sex toy); he IS their toy. Notwithstanding the dhimmi leadership, we shouldn't let Shiite (or Sunni) animals turn the streets of Western Civilization into pig pens. Ashura savagery is unconscionable. Ban it, strip participants of their citizenship or resident status and send them back to the rat-holes from which they strayed.

In the earlier "arab" language thread, I wrote of the origins of ersatz "arabism" as a derivative of an attempt of gay academics to establish Sodomistan, or a homeland where gays would be free to live as they chose. Gays - now somewhat free in Western Civilization - should admit that the results - Muslim terror - are only accurately characterized as: the Beirut-Frankenstein. Check this out:

The Deoband Curriculum - a 6 year course - for production of an "ulama" (muslim dogmatist) dictates training in arabic in the first year. At least one US islamic center uses the curriculum. In 2002, Toronto's National Post wrote of a gay harassment scandal at Canada's only madrasa.

Unfortunately, "arabs" do NOT speak "arabic." Of literate members of those who claim "arab" status, less than one-third can read premier newspapers, like "al Ahram." Those of that linguistic identity speak one of 35 different dialects. The average Moroccan cannot communicate with the average Yemeni. Pirated English language programs are flooding the Middle East, and are in demand in search of a useful linqua franca.

The language of diplomacy with the arab is: Modern Standard Arabic. It is the creation of the American gay male "arabists" who devised the standardization at American University in Beirut. Arab nationalism - as founded by the gay Beirut Christian, George Antonius - was synthesized in an American linguistic laboratory. Of interest is the fact that Chomskyism (he is an MIT academic nation-builder) is very much a politicized derivative of the Beirut Frankenstein. No MIT nation-building; no Nasser or Osama bin Laden and no Noam Chomsky and his human viruses.

The formal classification of MSA in Raymond Gordon's Ethnologue: Languages of the World, is as follows:

MSA has 246,000,000 second language speakers (in the "arab" world; or MIT cinematography) is not a first language. MSA is used for education, official purposes, written materials, and formal speeches, all of which come not spontaneously, not as mother-tongues do, but out of prepared materials. MSA is used for religion and ceremonial purposes, having archaic vocabulary. MSA is a modernized variety of "Classical Arabic." In most arab countries only the well educated have adequate proficiency in Standard Arabic, while over 100,500,000 do not.

One of the gay, nation builders of Beirut, was asked by Dick Cavett of what drove his interest in "arabism." He answered, "arab boys." The pre-Chomsky gays in search of free sodomy, were stimulated by underground arabic text.

The poetry of abu-Nuwas is published by the gay American press. Check out this poem, that led to Nasserism and bin-Laden cave-ulama:

O the joy of sodomy!

So now be sodomites, you Arabs.
Turn not away from it--
therein is wondrous pleasure.
Take some coy lad with kiss-curls
twisting on his temple
and ride as he stands like some gazelle
standing to her mate.
A lad whom all can see girt with sword
and belt not like your whore who has
to go veiled.
Make for smooth-faced boys and do your
very best to mount them, for women are
the mounts of devils.
------------
Once you stop laughing, remember that Tirmidhi' hadith quotes the phony cave-muslim "prophet" as offering jihadi bandits and murderers, more than only "72 virgins"; the arab butcher also gets: "28 boys" as "smooth as cultured pearls."

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/heaven.html

American academics created the Beirut-Frankenstein, in part in an MIT linguistic lab experiment; an American President must destroy that monster.

Posted by: supercargo at January 21, 2008 11:36 PM

Champ wrote:

gravenimage -

OMG! That photo is shocking! Just when I think I've seen it all -- there it is -- a picture more disturbing than any I've seen in the past. A picture of a mother cutting on what appears to be her own child. Barbaric!
.....................

Champ, I had the same reaction you did when I first saw photos of this practice a couple of years ago.

Lest anyone consider this an anomaly, here is a father visiting the same tender mercies on his small child:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/Ashoura3.jpg

I hope no one thinks I'm being perverse here. This stuff is damn disturbing, but it's important that we know about it.

Posted by: gravenimage at January 21, 2008 11:41 PM

Some OT news links from Galliawatch

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/105232.html

http://www.thelocal.se/9624/20080111/

And feral children in France
http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2008/01/frances-kindergarten-horrors.html

[-]
Aziz is not one of those hardened teenagers who hang out in gangs, he is five years old and lives in the city of Saint-Denis…

Aziz is not an isolated case. The rejuvenation of delinquency in the difficult neighborhoods is a regular phenomenon. Aged from 3 to 10 years old, these mini gangbangers, called "extremely disruptive children" by the administration, are not content to steal candies, but instead fight, smoke, loiter in the streets, torch cars, etc.

For instance like "Bemba", 7 years old, who comes to school stinking from gasoline, after having burned cars with his brothers in the neighboring parking lot. Or even the 3 year old child dubbed "Hannibal Lecter", in reference to the cannibal character from Silence of the Lambs, for his having bitten the nose off a little girl. Or mentioning "Kader", 6 years old, who, under the influence of his step-father, smokes cannabis each night "to sleep better". "Hakim", 9, has stabbed his own mother with a knife. It was six years ago. After many other serious misdemeanors, he is today imprisoned in Fresnes. All these children… come from Seine-Saint-Denis.
[-]

http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/news-from-eurabia.html
[-]

in Norwegian schools where out of 51,378 pupils in primary school, 19,602 or 38% are immigrants. Furthermore, in 34% of the schools, 50% of the pupils are immigrants. Seven years ago, the figure was 15%. Five schools have more than 90% immigrant pupils.
[-]

Posted by: Borg at January 21, 2008 11:42 PM

Thesaracen

You said;
“You are made to believe Islam discriminates against woman. Islam is violent. Islam hates everything about the West and it's people and Islam is hell-bent on attacking infidels. This is blatant propaganda and is a very powerful tool because without it there is no way you would allow Bush to still be in Iraq.”

There is no need for propaganda to paint negative pictures of Islam,.
All one needs to do is visit a few Muslim chats and see how they paint their own picture.

Use your noodle, it doesn’t take a rocket
scientist to see the lie controlling Muslims.
Criticizing Islam or the Prophet can make them wild.
Hearing the truth hurts when you believed a lie for so long.
Don't forget it is just a raisin waiting for the fools who blow themselves up.

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at January 21, 2008 11:46 PM

I would like to know why the grandson of Moe is honored like this when the koran, which was dictated by Moe holds all the info that a good muslim needs. Didn't this grandson disappear after Moe's death? How did he get counted in the religion if his story could not have happened during Moe's lifetime?

Can't they just have a crying parade like normal people.

Posted by: Borg at January 21, 2008 11:47 PM

Borg:

Our dhimmis - and your country is far from the most polluted - do the politics, not the math. In the name of human rights, we are allowing our countries to be taken over by those who would destroy them.

In essence, since WW2, Western Civilization has re-constituted to de-constitute. Our only shared core values are indulgence of those with their own supremacist and alien core values. France exists with the purpose of destroying France. Germany has the same purpose. And so on.

Witness the internecine strife in yesterday's Jihad Watch. Anti jihadism has not altered public opinion to any degree. Over 70% of Americans trust muslims. Why? They have no ability to acquire distrust. Americans overthrew a British monarch, for infliction of "repeated injuries and usurpations." Yet they take the same from their mortal enemies, like a flagelant.

When stupidity prospers none have the intelligence to call it stupidity.

Spence-Fitz: why is the trust level for the muslim so high, even in context of 3800 unnecessary deaths of American troops, at the hands of those savages?

Posted by: supercargo at January 22, 2008 12:08 AM

gravenimage:

That pic is at least 5 years old. Saddam Hussein banned Ashoura, because he knew it would allow Shiite protest. Bush allowed it, even though it permitted up to 30,000 Iranians to enter Iraq each day. Many of those were Basij operatives, who either remained to conduct operations or left funds for jihad terror.

Posted by: supercargo at January 22, 2008 12:12 AM

I would support President Bush's impeachment over his benighted immigration policies.

Posted by: Havoc at January 21, 2008 8:32 PM

You are not the only one. Some people have been calling for the impeachment. http://groups.google.com.bo/group/alt.impeach.bush/browse_thread/thread/8a0ec754f7c5dd1b

Posted by: Alert at January 22, 2008 12:33 AM

Gravenimage -

Wow - it's one thing to mutilate your own flesh into a blood soaked mess, but quite another to involve and abuse an innocent child with this horrific practice; and you are not the one who is being perverse, but those who partake in this hellish ritual - they're the sick'os!

Posted by: champ at January 22, 2008 12:45 AM

I think the guy in the back is at least a B cup, maybe a C, and he should at least be arrested for indecent exposure. Auuu - my eyes are burning.

Posted by: champ at January 22, 2008 12:52 AM

"... pardon me for asking, but is that guy on the right playing with his nipples?, YUK!" -- Kemaste

Yeah, me too; what's with that tub of goo with the boobs behind sword guy? Gross!

Posted by: alexon at January 22, 2008 12:55 AM

PLEASE.
DO NOT DISCOURAGE THEM.

Posted by: M.O.T. at January 22, 2008 1:07 AM

This surely cannot continue, the "blood rule" exists in many sports today for very good reason, it is to prevent the spread of infectious diseases that can be spread through the contact of blood. These mindless drones are splattering blood all over the place and the official/umpire/referee/the bloody law needs to stop this game now...

Posted by: eloivsdiablo at January 22, 2008 2:42 AM

Unsightly as festive blood play may be, this is worse:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20circumcision-t.html?ex=1201582800&en=4ff65881b0fecf06&ei=5070

Posted by: Papa Whiskey at January 22, 2008 3:29 AM

Unsightly as festive blood play may be, this is worse:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20circumcision-t.html?ex=1201582800&en=4ff65881b0fecf06&ei=5070

Posted by: Papa Whiskey at January 22, 2008 3:29 AM

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 22, 2008 3:37 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

Like I said....ground zero here they come!

Gather the relatives of those who died there....organise a brass band with lots of tissues to weep and wipe.

peace is coming your way!

Posted by: Naseem at January 22, 2008 4:43 AM

Is it just me or does anyone else think that Naseem is actually a cynical infidel doing a great subtle job at mocking Islam?

You go girl!

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 22, 2008 5:44 AM

...you do not want people like these in your neighborhood...Ban Muslim Immigration..

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 22, 2008 5:48 AM

Assalamau Laikum shy guy,

Sorry to disappoint you but....I am Ahmadi muslima.

If I come over slightly as infedel...I apologise...you see I have no great love for the shia...or sunni.

In Pak, they treat us with contempt...but they should not and it's not right.

Only in the West will Ahmadi get equal rights...and only in the West can Ahmadi rise above shia, sunni...with your help in conversion rates. The we can take it back to them in the middle east and Pak....this is strategy given to me with Allah's SWT grace.

I would like to see the march at ground zero, because of three things:

1) A great deal of effort and Islamic influence would have been there to allow an event there...but the Amerike would see shia and move away from it.

2) The Sunni too would be affected ...but I am here to say that Ahmadi IS peaceful....so when you want to convert...you go Ahmadi...much like going large at Mcdonalds...it will fulfill your needs and more!

3) Only through Ahmadi will you get sharia lite....with the other two varieties ...you get sharia only....believe me that this could be a problem for kaffur to adapt to....sharia lite you can do...I am confident.

This is my dua to you...this is the only way...please support Ahmadi..because this way you are support world peace.

Posted by: Naseem at January 22, 2008 7:57 AM

I just jumped down here, after reading a few of the comments, so I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out:

Isn't this a health risk? Not just to the participants, but to anyone who might be close enough for blood spatter to reach them? (As the marchers are beating their heads and chests.)

Cops and other emergency workers still wear gloves, when there is a possibility that they could come into contact with blood. This is a sickening spectacle that could be literally sickening, with blood borne diseases.

Diabetics and others who use home injections have to dispose of their used syringes and needles in sharps containers marked "Biohazard", yet these marchers are permitted to let their blood fly?

Where's the CDC on this? Forget the CDC--Where's common sense?

Posted by: Abscedere at January 22, 2008 8:01 AM

Yep, other people picked up on the biohazard angle. Sorry about that.

Posted by: Abscedere at January 22, 2008 8:05 AM

Hey,

Stop raggin' on the guy with the man boobs! Don't you know he just cut off his own nipple?

Sheesh!

Posted by: Abscedere at January 22, 2008 8:13 AM

This is my dua to you...this is the only way...please support Ahmadi..because this way you are support world peace.

Posted by: Naseem at January 22, 2008 7:57 AM

Snap out of it before you spread the disease to the next generation. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Posted by: Shy Guy at January 22, 2008 8:34 AM

Is it Teheran? Is it Iraq? No its the Ashura festival in Queens NYC. Thank you liberals who can't make judgments on different cultures. Thank you Bush, McCain Republicans who spout hackneyed phrases such as "religion of peace" and "family values don't stop at the Rio Grande". Thank you Clintons and Dems for seeking to import millions of constituents for your socialist policies. Thank you free marketeers who love quasi slave labor and libertarians who feel themselves put upon if they can't freely contract to bring in whoever they like from anywhere in the world. Thank you all for destroying our borders, language and culture. How do you like what you have turned America into?

Posted by: RBLA at January 22, 2008 9:08 AM

These cats need some mercurochrome, aka monkey blood.lmao If they want to maximize their pain I would also suggest rubbing salt into those wounds.

Posted by: Kevin at January 22, 2008 9:08 AM

Unbelievable this took place in New York!
So when do we have the privilege of seeing the throat-slit goats and lambs squealing and shitting as they die in pools of their own blood?

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at January 22, 2008 9:11 AM

Naseem says: Only in the West will Ahmadi get equal rights...and only in the West can Ahmadi rise above shia, sunni...

What if the west could care less about Amahdi? What if the west also shuns Amahdi? Guess you will just have to go it alone and hope those other muslims don't notice you...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 22, 2008 9:48 AM

I'm curious as to how many of these bloody bastards drop dead from trying to one up the next guy.

Posted by: Bosch Fawstin

LOLLLLL toooo funny

Posted by: Sneakyzionistcrusader at January 22, 2008 9:53 AM

http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/19/nothing-but-pure-ignorance-of-self-flagellation-on-ashoorah-ashura/#comments

Posted by: awake at January 22, 2008 10:04 AM

:"Naseem says: Only in the West will Ahmadi get equal rights""

...who or what in Pakistan prevents equal rights...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 22, 2008 10:13 AM

Once a Muslim gets a foot in the door, the next thing you know it’s in the wash basin.

And then on your face.

-Rick Darby

Read more on http://amnation.com/vfr/

Islam kills. The only good moslem is a bad moslem.

Posted by: thomas. h at January 22, 2008 10:43 AM

Assalamau Laikum exsgtbrown,

you ask ..."who or what in Pakistan prevents equal rights"...

This is a good question...fundamentally it is the constitution of Pak...which labels us as "non muslim"....that is defined as "someone who believes that muhd SAW was NOT the last prophet".

As you may know Mirza Ghulam Ahmad founded the the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat envisioning it to be a revitalization of Islam with him claiming to be the 2nd coming of Jesus and also claiming prophethood within Islam. This does not sit well with the sunni or the shia.

The Lahori sect (of which I am a part) however simply claims that he was an excellent spiritual leader...and neither of his claims are completely believed (by me for example).

Usually we are left alone...but if there is trouble ...you are on your own. Police are highly reluctant to open an FIR (first incident report) because it makes their district look bad...and if they know you are Ahmadi...it's just a wave of the hand...."get lost or I'll lock you up"....never mind the crime.

This simply empowers the sunni to do what he likes ....we have to be particularily careful that childrens do not pick fights with the sunni childrens...parents know where to draw the line.

I have a sunni colonel as a neighbor...and he found out that recently we were Ahmadi...and I have sensed a bit of cooling of relations with his wife ..although it is more in the way of making snide remarks.

Particularly distressing to me is when our prayer halls get attacked ...and also the fact that I can never go to Hajj (which I would like to very dearly).

Bhutto, Mushi, all of these people show no appetite to fix our status ...as the religious party would be on their back...and they simply won't risk it.

Having dual nationality ...I kinda play the game myself ...it helps me in my business for clients to know that I am "British" who has comeback home because of a better connection to Islam....well that's one way of putting it.

No one in Pak will fix these problems for us....so I need peoples like you to understand...that undermining the sunni would be the way forward....but you lunds keep on focusing on your own survival....not a good situation.

this is why I need for you join forces with Ahmadi...

Posted by: Naseem at January 22, 2008 11:04 AM

Queens. Korean restaurants on Northern Boulevard. Ecuadorean, Salvadoran, Mexican, Peruvian, Honduran, Panamanian restaurants, one after the different other, along that same boulevard of immigrant dreams.

And now something new. An immiscible liquid, poured into the stew. Islam. Muslims may pretend, we may all pretend along with them, that they are just one more element in the mix. But to possess, in your permanent mental luggage, an attitude of deep hostlity to non-Muslims, to their legal and political instiutions which are flatly contradicted by both the spirit and letter of Islam -- that's a different thing.

What would Archie say? But not only Archie. What would good-hearted Edith?

Posted by: Hugh at January 22, 2008 11:18 AM

Oh, Archie.....

At least that is what I recall Edith always saying.:) Of course Archie would say that those who don't get with the program should get out. Then Meathead would pipe in with his usual leftist/socialist spittle causing Archie to go red in the face as he clearly holds back from thoroughly trouncing Meathead for Gloria's sake. At which point CAIR would launch a lawsuit seeking damages caused by Archie's tirade labeling it as hate speech, etc.

Posted by: Kevin at January 22, 2008 11:35 AM

There was a story last week about the proliferation of HIV in "non-gay Iran." I wonder, do the participants share the whips they use when they bloody themselves? Homosexuality aside, this demonic ritual could be a main cause for the epidemic. Yet another evidence that Islam is NOT from the One True God.

Posted by: Lori B. at January 22, 2008 11:57 AM

Alert:
What is your obsession with President Bush, one of the few leaders in the West actually doing something to keep these bloodthirsty nutballs at bay? Of course I see that you have included the obligatory Google link. I have checked it out and once again I see nothing of substance, just angry people demanding the President's impeachment for one reason or another, none of which are impeachable offenses.

Posted by: HereticInfidel at January 22, 2008 12:39 PM

Please take a few minutes to e-mail this to people you know, especially if they are likely to pass it on. I've sent it to several talk-show hosts in the Baltimore-Washington area. Also e-mail it to people who may be multi-culti, but who are still open to debate. It should cause everyone who sees it to ask questions. These stone-agers have provided us with ammunition. Let's use it! Lock and load!

Posted by: MP at January 22, 2008 1:13 PM

Is it just me or does anyone else think that Naseem is actually a cynical infidel doing a great subtle job at mocking Islam?

You go girl!

Posted by: Shy Guy

A few others suspect this as well. In the past, Hugh would point out how Naseem is not just entertainment, but a provides a very good insight into the Mohammedan 'mind'. However, if this is a prankster, as Robert has suggested, then I agree with you - (s)he's doing a better job mocking Islam than the best of us ever could.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 22, 2008 1:22 PM

No one in Pak will fix these problems for us....so I need peoples like you to understand...that undermining the sunni would be the way forward....but you lunds keep on focusing on your own survival....not a good situation.

this is why I need for you join forces with Ahmadi...

Sounds like Ahmadis are quite focused on their survival, too. Wouldn't call you a lund for wanting that, however. But I might call you a "sunniophobe" for wishing to "undermine the sunni". :-)

But you mean to say, you can't rely on your own fellow non-Ahmadi Muslims to help fix Pak's problems, so you instead call out to infidels on an anti-Islam website for help? How goofed up is that? %-/ I mean, really, shouldn't you be looking in your immutable Quran for your answers and asking your Almighty Allah for help instead? Or at least plead with the kafirs on dailykos.com where you're more likely to find the sympathy and support you're looking for?

Also, if you're spending as much time on Sunni/Shia websites trying to convince folks there of your views as you do with folks on JW, I'd like to see links to those posts. That'd convince me of your seriousness in wanting change in Pak for a sharia-lite Islam.

Posted by: yadayada at January 22, 2008 2:44 PM

Naseem states: "...but you lunds keep on focusing on your own survival....not a good situation.

this is why I need for you join forces with Ahmadi..."

That plea for help just warms my soul. I don't what is more appealing, calling me a lund, or getting mixed up with your "religious" problems.

Personally, I want nothing to do with your particular brand of "Ahmadi" Islam, or with any other facet of Islam, because the bottom line for me is that I will NEVER accept Mohammad as a 'true' prophet of God and all his crazy mixed up crap. I believe he was a false prophet - and at best - a self proclaimed prophet of: Delusion of Grandeur.

Another thing that the Ahmadi sect can't seem to figure out is whether or not Mohammad was in fact God's last prophet. I've read that some Ahmadi believe he was, and that other Ahmadi do NOT believe he was. I don't have to ask which camp you are in, because I think I know the answer, but you guys can't even get that straight!

So why on earth would American "lunds", as you lovingly like to call us, want to get involved in a mess like that?!

Work it out among yourselves......we are too busy enjoying our own Blood-Bought freedoms.

Posted by: champ at January 22, 2008 3:18 PM

Thanks to Naseem, I doubt that there's anybody left who doesn't know what lund means (penis). I know that cuss terms in English generally get edited or deleted, but looks like Marisol might need a quick primer in Urdu cuss words. Some other terms to look out for - in addition to lund - would be 'madher chod' (MF), 'bhan chod' (sister f___), 'chootiya' (f___er) - these 3 come to mind right away.

I doubt you'll get them from Rosetta Stone.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 22, 2008 4:29 PM

Now I can see how the Homosexual BSD community and the Radical Islamic/Al-quaeda have in common

Posted by: smulrich at January 22, 2008 4:59 PM

First, I don't deeply care if they do this. I may not like it, but it is ultimately their business. It doesn't threaten my or my life or my friends and family.

Second, to the person who expressed some concern for the children: The children are not typically forced to participate, so far as I am aware. When children are involved, that I have a problem with. Yes it does seem that it happens, but nothing here suggests it is systematic or even especially common. This is not like FGM, which is widespread and systematic. (You could make an argument that these beatings are practically "forced" insofar as the child can't leave the religion when he reached the age at which he can think for himself, but then, that is a separate problem -- and this one is the real problem).

Third, this festival expresses an important idea that I dislike seeing mocked, even if this particular expression of it is, um, messy.

The world is an inherently unjust place. Bad things happen to good people, and something there isn't jack we can do about it except mourn. The righteous do not always win. The righteous are not always the strongest. Sometimes good things are lost to the forces of the corrupt, or due to the apathy of the majority.

That this theme exists in Shiite Islam is a positive, not a negative. That's not a part of Islam I have a problem with at all; I don't see any good reason to mock it. The problems with Islam are the lack of human rights and real justice for women and for religious minorities, and a unjust totalitarian theocratic legal system, a push to spread the unjust totalitarian legal system globally and by force if necessary, and a lack of freedom of conscience for people who are Muslim and want to change religion.

If all those things change, do you really care if adult men voluntarily hit themselves until bloody on the streets to, essentially, mourn injustice?

I don't.

Posted by: hope_and_justice at January 22, 2008 6:20 PM

"So when do we have the privilege of seeing the throat-slit goats and lambs squealing and shitting as they die in pools of their own blood?"

Yeah, and I suppose your meat had a better life? You farm your own free-range grass-fed cattle and effectively stun them before slaughter, I take it?

There's this org called Peta that can hook you up with video of living cows skinned alive and hanging on meathooks, and other wonderful things brought to your kitchen by factory farming.

You will not, I repeat will not, form a coalition of human rights interested people to fight radical Islam if you insist on mocking Muslims for those of their traditions for which your cultural analogue is either no bettter (or arguably even worse), or for those of their traditions that do not pertain to human rights and justice.

Posted by: hope_and_justice at January 22, 2008 6:31 PM

The holiday of goat slaughtering in the streets is much worse.

Posted by: Beagle at January 21, 2008 8:11 PM
__________________

in God's country for the uniformed - Texas - , we call that the 4th of July...........got to have bbqed goat on the fourth.........with several barrels of cold cold brew............

the brew is for the goat eaters not the goats, but it does give the goat that special taste if you keep them drunk for several days before bbqing them.....

Posted by: ??? at January 22, 2008 8:19 PM

I was appalled by this practice of self-flaggelation being displayed on the streets of America, and these photos

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/galleries/festival_of_ashura/festival_of_ashura.html

of Muslims mutilating their bodies, in public, supposedly "celebrating" some alien-to-America perversion. I decided to post a link to the photos and a comment on a moderately busy political message board I use, visited by both liberals and conservatives. To my surprise, only one comment was made. I find, in general, ignorance of Islam and what Muslims are about, is widespread. Attempting to educate Americans of the problem opens you up to accusations of bigotry, or worse.

Posted by: RED at January 22, 2008 8:48 PM

Only in the West will Ahmadi get equal rights...and only in the West can Ahmadi rise above shia, sunni...with your help in conversion rates.

I would rather whittle myself a beak and pick sh*t with the chickens.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 22, 2008 9:23 PM

I know exactly where this is. It's near Jamaica Hospital. The mosque is located on 90th Ave near the Van Wyck Expressway. I lived on 90th Ave as a kid-but between 182nd Pl and 183rd Street. But many of my friends lived in this area. Actually, these Muslim guys are no that different from them.

Posted by: Frank at January 22, 2008 10:12 PM

You will not, I repeat will not, form a coalition of human rights interested people to fight radical Islam if you insist on mocking Muslims for those of their traditions for which your cultural analogue is either no bettter (or arguably even worse), or for those of their traditions that do not pertain to human rights and justice.
Posted by: hope_and_justice

I'm a little confused, maybe you can help me out.
Who are the 'human rights interested people you site?
If they were really interested in human rights, why would a bunch of religion mocking bigots throw them off?
And radical Islam, what is that, and what is the difference between that, and regular Islam?
And whose cultural analog are you referring to?
'Your' does not apply to me. Thanks, no labels please.
Sounds like your charging hypocrisy, but against who? For what? This is painted with an very wide brush.
What you see as religious expression, I see as
psychotic. I know all about self abusive behavior.
I know too much about psychosis. I don't know about 'mocking' but I certainly wont lend approval or legitimacy to public displays of mass psychosis. Self flagellation is not exclusive to Islam or any part of it. Certain Christians have practiced it, St Francis if I am not mistaken. Mortification of the flesh is a psychotic episode, no matter who is doing it, religiously inspired or not. It is one thing to beat your chest or pull out hair in grief and frustration, it is quite another to use implements of bloody torture on yourself in public, or private. That's psychotic and deviant behavior...If you can answer my questions thanks, or to comment on what I said is A#1 ok...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 22, 2008 11:18 PM

"What would Archie say? But not only Archie. What would good-hearted Edith?"

Whatever Edith might say (let alone Archie), they would be in our time drowned out by politically correct lectures from Meathead and Gloria, scripted by Norman Lear, who has become King.

Posted by: cantor at January 23, 2008 1:02 AM

I don't understand the minds of the good people who post these hateful comments here at JihadWatch.org/ ...,

Listen, if people want to believe Allah loves them more than you by doing stuff like this, and if Allah wants his Chosen people to cut themselves with sharp objects once or twice a year, who the hell are you to tell them that it's somehow wrong to think and do stuff like this?

Get a life. Read the Qu'ran and learn what is really good for you and the community you live in. Study the Qu'ran for hours and hours and years and years, and learn its teachings of the love of life and to be obedient to the Will of Allah!

Do it!!

Posted by: k24anson at January 23, 2008 10:28 AM

Because of the pictures at the beginning of the article, I posted my thoughts before I read any other person's posts. That last post of mine really threw me for a loop.

Gullible, influential, malleable, and easily manipulated little boys and girls reared by their immigrant Islamic parents are now residing somewhere in the United States. If the proper platforms were constructed, Western rationality will transform these said boys and girls into the type of people who will change their parent's native lands, or at least become an instrument of change.

If I were in possession of the resources to do so, I would make good this opportunity, and exploit it. Because there are no Islamic groups in Islamland teaching the positive social, cultural, economic, educational, religious values of dopey Islamland to the wave of foreign immigrants that are not seeking refuge and flocking to Islamlands. The only people Islamic nations and cultures attract as immigrants are people with loose screws in their canoes.

I'm glad Islamics are here today, so that we can witness their acts in their belief in some type of God Allah. What convoluted people they are. And the better Western schooled, rational people now can become a positive influence to their children as they grow to adulthood. We can change the world ... if no Democrats get involved and start injecting their oafish nonsense into the equation I have in mind here.

We're gonna win this.

Posted by: k24anson at January 23, 2008 11:04 AM

"I'm a little confused, maybe you can help me out.
Who are the 'human rights interested people you site?"

The majority of Americans, who are not Marxist and related academics, but currently and wrongly think that Islam is a religion of peace, and who are very very touchy about infringing on religious belief. You must be aware that this site and the perspectives on it are hardly mainstream?

I am very, very interested in the truth of Islam becoming mainstream. Focusing in on b*llshit like how they slaughter their meat or that they whip themselves voluntarily once a year makes it look like you are more interested in fighting Islam to stop cultural practices and forms of speech you don't like than because of actual, real, pressing human rights issues. Are you?

If you are, your cause is doomed, because you will not get a majority of Americans to side with you until it is much to late.

"If they were really interested in human rights, why would a bunch of religion mocking bigots throw them off?"

Yes, if the president and almost everyone in the government and almost everyone in the media (and everyone in the mainstream media) and almost everyone in the academy were actively working to throw them off the truth.

"And radical Islam, what is that, and what is the difference between that, and regular Islam?"

Radical means root. I mean by radical Islam Islam that takes its roots seriously. Which is realistically now, in light of educational funding from the Saudis and in light of increased communication, all Islam, because increasingly any Muslim that isn't radical is pressured into shutting up or becoming radical by other Muslims. Apostates get killed, and non-radicals are considered by the holy book, in its plain and traditional reading, to be apostates.

"And whose cultural analog are you referring to?
'Your' does not apply to me. Thanks, no labels please."

So you're a vegetarian? Good for you.

Our version of slaughtering animals in the streets is factory farming. This involves raising them in tiny pens on GMO grains and antibiotics until they are killed in the cheapest way possible, which often involves a great deal of pain and suffering.

"Sounds like your charging hypocrisy, but against who? For what? This is painted with an very wide brush."

It was meant to be pretty specific to the person who made the comments about slaughtering animals.

More generally, if anyone is interested in being taken seriously, they do have to be careful not to do similar things with other topics that might come up. Call Islam on the logs in its eyes. Don't call it on the specks, especially not when we have the same specks.

"What you see as religious expression, I see as
psychotic."

I see all but the very most personal and private religious behaviour as psychotic. Should I mock Catholics for thinking their wine and wafers are godman blood and godman flesh?

"I know all about self abusive behavior.
I know too much about psychosis. I don't know about 'mocking' but I certainly wont lend approval or legitimacy to public displays of mass psychosis. Self flagellation is not exclusive to Islam or any part of it. Certain Christians have practiced it, St Francis if I am not mistaken. Mortification of the flesh is a psychotic episode, no matter who is doing it, religiously inspired or not. It is one thing to beat your chest or pull out hair in grief and frustration, it is quite another to use implements of bloody torture on yourself in public, or private. That's psychotic and deviant behavior...If you can answer my questions thanks, or to comment on what I said is A#1 ok..."

Your distinction between using implements and not using implements is not a substantial distinction.

I'd actually say all self-flagellation is psychologically unhealthy, including the religious version of Christians (and not all of it is just spontaneous mourning, as you imply above). The Ashura holiday represents something in Shiite Islam I think is a positive, it makes it a little less Nazi-like, and that is that right and good is not identical to winning and powerful. That matters more to me than wheter they flagellate or not.

I still don't like self flagellation. That doesn't mean I'm going to call for bans of it, or even focus in on it for special rebuke, and that doesn't mean I'm going to focus in on the Islamic version when all doing so will result in is me occupying an easily skewered position. First because it will suggest that my interest in fighting Islam isn't really individual human rights, and second because it will suggest I have a bias against Islam that can't, as a result of giving Christian self-flagellators a pass, be explained on rational grounds.

Your comments on "approval" and "legitimacy" are interesting. There's a difference between calls for bans, which I saw on this thread, and social "legitimacy".

The government shouldn't be the seat of social legitimacy, not all bad and socially unapproved things should be forcibly banned.

This is at any rate aside from my main point, which is that you hurt your cause by focusing on issues like this when there are TONS and TONS of real human rights issues around with Islam.

Posted by: hope_and_justice at January 23, 2008 11:22 AM

Cantor-

A great spoof could be done on this. It could be hilarious. All in the Family Jihad.

Posted by: Frank at January 23, 2008 12:45 PM

Frank, or it could be called "All in the Ummah" -- or better yet: "Allah in the Family".

Posted by: cantor at January 24, 2008 1:27 PM