"One is that the jihadists were fighting against non-Muslims long before the advent of the Vagina Monologues and Britney Spears." --RS

Right. Rendering D'Souza's theory 100% worthless.

Dinesh: It's in the Qur'an. That's why they hate us. Simple as that. "Unbelievers" are to be annihilated. Why don't you check out a Q sometime?

Yesterday I learned that "al-Qur'an" means "The Recitation." I.E. the revelations given to Mo as recited by the archangel Gabriel.

Which is a bunch of hooey!

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2008 9:09 AM

This statement:

>"The figure does not yet include abortions effected with non-medical assistance," Jurnalis Uddin, a professor at the Jakarta-based YARSI University was quoted as saying by Antara news agency.

...suggests that the actual number of abortions is much higher than reported. The illegal nature and the social stigma would make the task of accurately estimating the number of abortions in Indonesia very difficult.

This does seem to make hypocrites out of those people who claim absolute moral superiority of Islam. Consider Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's absurd claim that there are no homosexuals in Iran. I don't think a theocratic movement claiming a hypocritical moral authority really surprises anyone.

However, Dinesh D'Souza claim that they hate us for our immorality suggests that if we were more moral they would hate us less. This is a variation on the "they hate us for our freedom" meme. In this instance, however, they are hating us for the doing the wrong things, instead of doing the right things with the freedoms we enjoy. I have to ask does it really matter what we do? Theocrats are notoriously hard to satisfy.

Yet another strike against D'Souza, who has also thrown his hat in the ring with American creationists who believe a mushy conjecture like so-called "intelligent design" should be taught along side mainstream evolutionary science in public schools. It's pertinent to note Muslim theocrats oppose Darwin's theory as being un-Islamic.

Please note that I do not intend to start an argument over abortion, homosexuality, or creationism.

Posted by: deer.valley.ed at February 25, 2008 9:22 AM

"This does seem to make hypocrites out of those people who claim absolute moral superiority of Islam." --deer.valley.ed

Well, of course they're hypocrites! That's a no-brainer. Just their honor killings and FGM and child brides make Islamic societies FAR more "immoral" than Western!

Also, Britney Spears is reprehensible to them, but suicide bombings and beheadings appear to be A-OK! What a bunch of total and complete immoral as all-get-out hypocrites.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2008 9:33 AM

I'm sorry, am I not hyperventilating enough?

Posted by: deer.valley.ed at February 25, 2008 9:39 AM

Muslims like booze. Kuwaitis love Iraqi beer and wine. ;)

Posted by: deer.valley.ed at February 25, 2008 9:42 AM

2.5 million abortions annually. That's more than twice the number of abortions performed annually in the U.S. And Indonesia's population is 234 million, with 300 million in America.
by Robert

But that doesn't tell the whole story.
Numbers can be misleading. Indonesia may have more abortions but what is the Islamic stance on birth control? Preventing unplanned pregnancy goes a long way toward lowering the number of abortions. American women are more proactive in that regard.

Posted by: PMK at February 25, 2008 10:00 AM

few farragos have been as ridiculous (or as successful in bamboozling those aching to be bamboozled) as Dinesh D'Souza's contention that they hate us because of the immorality of Western pop culture.
............................................

I think it's instructive here to refer to Muslim Brotherhood honcho Sayyid Qutb, speaking about Western licentiousness in his book, "The America I have Seen":

"They danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire..."

Pretty steamy. A scene from the wild 1960s, perhaps? Then you learn that he was writing about America in 1948--quite a bit tamer than today. Still, there were a few wild scenes, even then--perhaps Mardi Gras in New Orleans? A crazy Jitterbug competition? Maybe a drunken Hollywood party, replete with affairs and narcotics?

No. This was a dance in a church basement in small town Greeley, Colorado--in a "dry" county. I doubt they were listening to wild jazz, maybe not even Big Band--probably sweet American standards. They were probably drinking Coca-Cola and lemonade and iced tea.

Most Americans today would consider this "bacchanal" to be either good, innocent fun--or, let's be honest, kind of boring.

The idea that turning away from Britney Spears and gangster rap and internet porn--things many Americans are genuinely uneasy about anyway--will mollify jihadists is nothing but a fantasy.

Posted by: gravenimage at February 25, 2008 10:04 AM

D'Souza is starting to come around a bit, just a bit, judging from this snippet from a recent blog entry:

Second, we all want the religious minorities, both actual and hypothetical, to feel welcome and happy, but should this be at the price of insulting the religious sentiments of the Christian majority? If it hurts a Muslim's feelings to step into a Christian chapel and see a cross, isn't it even more hurtful for a Christian to step into a Christian chapel and have the cross removed? Shouldn't Hindus and Muslims expect to see crosses in Christian chapels? How would they feel if we went to Pakistan and removed Muslim symbols from the mosques over there, in order to make us feel welcome? Would a lively church-state discussion ensue, or would we end up running for our lives?

Fairly succinct, the last line. He's not a total dunce...

I would like to suggest a modification of his theory: The 'filth' that is piped into the Islamic world via our technology which they want so much, gives a bigger hiding place, a more plausible subterfuge for the Islamic Supremacy which is indeed the 'root cause' of it all. It makes it all that much easier to stir up their populations against us.

None of this is to suggest that we should change anything to please them, which is truly impossible. I just hate to see this division and animosity and conflict amongst people of good will.

Posted by: Goob at February 25, 2008 10:07 AM

"They hate us for our immorality, right?"

Substitute 'immorality' with 'existence' and it reads right.

Posted by: Sounder at February 25, 2008 10:09 AM

We assume and many on this site promote, the position that because Judaism and Christianity more moral, it is the true word of God and Islam is not.
What if the Moslems are right and we are wrong?
Mohamed, unlike Jesus, was a historical character. He was a warrior and a religious leader, which is in line with the Jewish tradition of the messiah. He “communicated” with God regularly and was acting on advice even in small matters.
His immorality is obvious to us but who is to say he did not follow the “true” word of God?
If one believes that God could “turn his back on the Jews”, why couldn’t he do it again?
It looks like God is more favorable to Moslems. Their numbers are up, ours are down. We are made to support them with our money, technology and education. In many places we are heading for dhimmitude and in Europe they could well become the masters in 2-3 generations.
We are supposed to be intelligent and clever and yet are “committing suicide” for their benefit. Could it be we are following the “will of God”?
There is no rational explanation for our actions, could an irrational explanation do a better job?

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 10:23 AM

"What if the Moslems are right and we are wrong?"

Don't worry about it. They're not.

"It looks like God is more favorable to Moslems. Their numbers are up, ours are down."

What an idiotic "argument." Haven't you ever heard of "quality, not quantity?"

Also: "It looks like God is more favorable to houseflies. Their numbers are up, ours are down."

Finally, pong, the Western "committing suicide" is a temporary phenomenon. The tide will turn.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2008 10:40 AM

Pong: Careful there!

Certainly that is the case that islamists will make: that God's apparent favor of them means they are in the right. Which will only increase their ardor and escalate their methods.

You actually make the case for rationalism. We didn't get where we are (rulers of the land, sky, and sea) by being irrational. Nor did they get where they are (basket case nations of oppression and backwardness) by being rational.

All these things can be explained rationally. But it would take too much time to go into. I tend to ignore those who, as you point out, credit our superior God for our success and vice-versa.

Posted by: Goob at February 25, 2008 10:46 AM

The Islamic world is in no position to criticize any one else's level of popular culture. I recently saw a tabulation of the number of "hits" on websites devoted to sex with animals, with the totals arranged in order by country of origin. The animals included dogs, sheep, goats, donkeys, and others. In every case 8 or 9 of the top 10 countries were Islamic. And THEY call US degraded!

Posted by: ebonystone at February 25, 2008 10:55 AM

pong:
Your scenario is enough to make me hate God. The god that would reward killing is not one we should worship and it's not one whose will we should seek to follow.
Guess what? We DON'T. That god is named ALLAH.

darcy,
If history is our guide, then Islam will suffer yet again. In the past it was stopped by Martel and then at Vienna. The problem today is that it has greater weapons of destruction and it has spread to just about every country, courtesy of Western openness. Its adherents have been welcomed into Western societies and received educations that were not available to them in dar-al-Islam. We have given them tools to spread their message that were not available even a century ago. We have allowed ourselves to be brainwashed into believing that European colonialists did more damage to Islam in forty years than Islamic countries ever did to the West. Strange as it may seem, it will take even more fortitude on our part than was displayed by our ancestors to defeat this menace. Our predecessors had an easier time. They believed in themselves and in the cause they fought for. We have become self-haters, obsessed with seeing only the bad in ourselves and only the good in those who would destroy us.

Posted by: PMK at February 25, 2008 11:06 AM

"Certainly that is the case that islamists will make: that God's apparent favor of them means they are in the right." --Goob

This "apparent favor" you are basing solely on population? Any arthropod can procreate, and procreate a lot. Do you have any idea how many little spiders are contained in one mommy spider's sac? Millions. Guess that means they're favored.

Mohammedan females are still treated as chattel. The vast majority are not allowed to work. Their "job" as seen by Muslim males is: Procreation. Mohammed said that the job of a woman was to "manufacture men." No kidding - look it up. And you know how seriously Mohammedans take the sayings of Mohammed. Most Mohammedan females get married at puberty and start producing offspring immediately. Meanwhile, our girls in the USA are attending high school and having fun in life. Jamie Lynn Spears is criticized in our culture for being pregnant at 14 - yet, the Mohammedans see no problemo with that AT ALL.

Western females are FREE.

Mohammedan females are NOT FREE.

And therein lies the demographic disparity. Having nothing to do with "God's favor." Who would want to live as a female Muslim slave chattel forced to bear 17 children? Nope - that doesn't sound like "God's favor" to me.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2008 11:07 AM

Thank you for this reference. I am so sick of this silly argument from Islam apologists. If Islam is so great, why are the women beaten so badly? What kind of morality is that?

Posted by: Silly Allah at February 25, 2008 11:11 AM

As implied here, there really is a double standard. Another instance of that is the Kosovo situation: If the Serbs were Muslims and Kosovo was predominantly Christian, and its inhabitants had destroyed over 1000 mosques and had chased out over 200,000 Muslims, do you think the US and other countries would have recognized Kosovo's independence? Only if the Saudis were Christian.

Posted by: jewdog at February 25, 2008 11:14 AM

PMK:

"We have given them tools to spread their message that were not available even a century ago"

I don't think that Mohammedans ever invented anything. Our number system is really Hindu in origin but mistakingly called Arabic. Including "zero." If anyone knows of any inventions of Mohammedan origin, please let me know.

And right, PMK, the West (of course) invents the Internet with which the parasite Mohammedans are spreading their message of hate against us.

It will be harder to defeat them this time due to their immigration infiltration everywhere. Enoch Powell deserves a public apology from the Formerly-Great Britain.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2008 11:16 AM

pong,

"We assume and many on this site promote, the position that because Judaism and Christianity more moral, it is the true word of God and Islam is not.
What if the Moslems are right and we are wrong?
Mohamed, unlike Jesus, was a historical character. He was a warrior and a religious leader, which is in line with the Jewish tradition of the messiah. He “communicated” with God regularly and was acting on advice even in small matters.
His immorality is obvious to us but who is to say he did not follow the “true” word of God?
If one believes that God could “turn his back on the Jews”, why couldn’t he do it again?
It looks like God is more favorable to Moslems. Their numbers are up, ours are down. We are made to support them with our money, technology and education. In many places we are heading for dhimmitude and in Europe they could well become the masters in 2-3 generations.
We are supposed to be intelligent and clever and yet are “committing suicide” for their benefit. Could it be we are following the “will of God”?
There is no rational explanation for our actions, could an irrational explanation do a better job?"

Would it suprise you that the Holy Bible is being proven as being both "historic" and "scientific" by the archological discoveries that are being made in the Holy Land?

Would it suprise you that Jesus Christ is a TRUE historic as well as spiritual figure? Proof is the many "eyewitnesses" that the four Gospel accounts give. Plus the first followers, the apostles DID NOT GIVE UP THEIR LIVES ( except John the Beloved ) FOR A LIE. The spread of the Christian Gospel or good news of Jesus is one of the greatest sucess stories in human history. Even to this very day in what is called THE GLOBAL SOUTH, the Christian faith is seeing a large boom growth in sub-Saharia Africa, Asia, and Latin America. Be it Roman Catholic, Anglican, or Evangelical Protestant Christian, there are new members coming to faith in Christ every day. Their numbers ARE MUCH GREATER then the Muslims. So God STILL DOES FAVOR the Jewish/Christian faith communites, not the Muslims.

Also even there is calls to have new tests done on the legendary "Shroud of Turin" in order to correct the mistakes of twenty years ago to prove once and for all that Jesus is TRULY HISTORIC.

As far as Mohammed is concerned, despite his claim to have heard "God's voice", his life WAS NOT A TRUE REFLECTION OF BEING A PROPHET. Proof is the fact that one of his "wives" was a little 9-year-old girl. He married her when SHE WAS 6 and the marriage was cossumated at the age of 9. So that does not make Mohammed a prophet in any way, shape, or form with this one example of some of the worse sins commited by him.

So it is hoped that the record has been set straight.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at February 25, 2008 11:21 AM

"Mohamed, unlike Jesus, was a historical
character."

Posted by: pong

Actually, the historical evidence is as great or greater for Jesus. Several scholars such as Joseph Schacht, John Wansbrough, and Patricia Crone have pointed out the lack of evidence about Mohammed and early Islam. There is good reason to believe that (1)the Koran was compiled by a number of editors over a long period, and did not achieve final form until the late 9th c., or over two centuries after "Mohammed"; (2) Islam was created as an ideology to justify the Arabs' rule of their conquests; (3) that the details of Mohammed's life were only invented centuries after his death; or even (4) that Mohammed himself was a fiction created in the 9th c. to give Islam a "founder".

Posted by: ebonystone at February 25, 2008 11:21 AM

Well this a newbie to me: government funded sex change operations. In Iran.

Posted by: saint at February 25, 2008 11:22 AM

Of course, we, the West is the Great Satan; Islam, however, is the religion of peace and culturally superior in its morality. Yet, we do not blow up a busload of children because their faith, Judaism, is deemed with vitriol. We, We, The Great Satan, do not employ airliners as missiles, crashing them into office towers murdering thousands… and so-forth.
Not to mention, their handing out of sweets to children in celebration of murder and mayhem of non-Muslims.
Indeed, there are aspects of our culture I find repugnant or in part, kitschy but this is what makes our society/culture a democracy. Moreover, Islam’s inherent intolerance (propped-up by Western apologist’s handwringing justifications) is a prime indicator of their wanton determination for our annihilation.
Most alarming, however, is that there are numerous leftists within our powerbase who swallow this gibberish. Not on omit, the numerous leftist-dullards within (those same cultural-icons, Islam detests) media and glitterati with a similarly warped and perverse perception of Islam’s, true, objective: not peace or, merely, coexistence but the annihilation of Western-Civilization.

Posted by: ballzack at February 25, 2008 11:34 AM

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/Special-Preview---br---WHEN-JIHAD-CAME-TO-

darcy,
Have you seen this? We might have stopped the jihadists in their infancy had we been willing to do so. The author dates it to the time the blind sheikh was mistakenly granted a visa. The murder of Meir Kahane should have been seen for what it was: jihad. Instead everyone chose to avert their eyes. The pattern continues today.

Posted by: PMK at February 25, 2008 11:38 AM

OT,but I recently saw the latest edition of "Skeptical Inquirer" magazine at the bookstore. It was devoted in large part to articles about the lack of science education and scientific research in the Islamic world. One article listed the number of published scientific articles in recent years, in various fields, originating in various countries. It tallied the numbers from seven major Islamic countries, and compared them to the numbers from a few non-Islamic countries. In the field of physics, the number published from Brazilian (yes, Brazil, not exactly one of the leading centers of scientific research) sources out-numbered those of all seven Islamic countries combined. The number from the U.S. was 20 or 30 times that of Brazil.

Posted by: ebonystone at February 25, 2008 11:43 AM

Would it surprise you that Jesus Christ is a TRUE historic as well as spiritual figure? Proof is the many "eyewitnesses" that the four Gospel accounts give.
bigcatgirl13106

Yes. It would surprise me a lot. I think by now every serious scholar including the theologians agree that the gospels were written long after the stories they described happened.

Plus the first followers, the apostles DID NOT GIVE UP THEIR LIVES ( except John the Beloved ) FOR A LIE.
bigcatgirl13106

So it must be true. You are kidding me!?

Also even there is calls to have new tests done on the legendary "Shroud of Turin" in order to correct the mistakes of twenty years ago to prove once and for all that Jesus is TRULY HISTORIC.
bigcatgirl13106

So even after the tests were performed and the new ones have not, you already know the truth. Why to bother with the tests?

I envy you. When Islam wins it will take you just a short stroll to get from one nonsense to another.

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 11:55 AM

"JAKARTA: At least 2.5mn abortions are performed annually in Indonesia, although the practice is illegal in the predominantly Muslim country, state-run media reported yesterday."

Thats a lot of abortions for something that is illegal.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 12:13 PM

pong,

If the Koran and Islam is so good, why is the HOLY BIBLE STILL THE NUMBER 1 best selling and greatest book of all time?

Says more about the sucess of the Bible.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at February 25, 2008 12:13 PM

Well Darcy here is one

And it comes from Indonesia of all places

The ISLAMBORGHINI
One horse power version of a Lamborghini

and see how proud they are

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/12/fast-cars.html

Posted by: shiva at February 25, 2008 12:22 PM

" When islam wins...."
pong

When islam wins.....what? Kewpie doll...bragging rights...silver engraved trophy..night with pom pom girl???? I smell muslim jihadi mentality here.

Posted by: pismopal at February 25, 2008 12:22 PM

I dont really see the need to bash the beliefs of Christianity. Islam is the enemy of all, Christians and athiests alike.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 12:24 PM

pismopal,

If the West doesnt change its ways and its thinking, Islam will indeed win. Thats not bragging, its a fact.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 12:26 PM

One of the things that people like D'Souza seem to have lost sight of is the distinction between the reasons that people hate, and the things they then adduce to justify the hate. The West's supposed immorality clearly falls in the second category.

Posted by: Leizerel at February 25, 2008 12:30 PM

pismopal,

That is why it is important to set the record straight.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at February 25, 2008 12:36 PM

I dont really see the need to bash the beliefs of Christianity. Islam is the enemy of all, Christians and athiests alike.
Elric66

Try to explain it to the archbishop of Canterbury, to reverend Coles, to Daniel Scott, to those in Vatican involved in dialog with Islam (conferences on pluralism in Islam and Christianity).
“ When two pastors David Scott and Danny Nalliah were found guilty of vilifying Islam under the Victorian Racial and Religious Tolerance Act the Islamic Council of Victoria was congratulated by Uniting Church, Catholic Church and Anglican Church in what one is tempted to describe as a proper expression of Christian sentiment.”

Brothers in Faith!

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 1:13 PM

@pong

It is obvious that you are a troll. All of these so called 'serious scholars' are from the liberal wing and also believe more of what Islam says about who Jesus is than what the simple reading of the Bible says about him. The post dating of books is an old trick to do one thing. Remove any supernatural value from the account. Why you may ask, because these scholars don't believe in the supernatural.

The second point, we are not kidding. These followers were given a choose, worship Caesar and live or worship Jesus and die. They choose the later because of faith. And here is another telling fact about dying for what you believe. They did not strap bombs on themselves and kill as many as they could for some perverse future reward. They choose to die because they already had been given eternal life.

1Cr 15:53-57
For our perishable earthly bodies must be transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die. When this happens-when our perishable earthly bodies have been transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die-then at last the Scriptures will come true: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. How we thank God, who gives us victory over sin and death through Jesus Christ our Lord!

1 كورنثوس 15:53-57
لدينا تلف الدنيويه الهيئات يجب تحويلها الى السماوية التي لن تموت. وعندما يحدث ذلك - عندما ننتهي من تلف الدنيويه الهيئات وتم تحويل السماوية التي لن تموت - في الماضي ثم سيأتي الكتاب المقدس صحيح : "الموت هو تبتلعها في النصر. س الموت ، واين هو الانتصار الخاصة بك؟ او الموت ، واين هو اللدغه الخاص بك؟ " الذنب هو اللدغه ان النتائج في الموت ، ويمنح القانون خطيءه وسعها. كيف نشكر الله ، والذي يعطينا الانتصار على الخطيئة والموت من خلال يسوع المسيح ربن

Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at February 25, 2008 1:15 PM

"Pong"'s initial offering was poorly written. With "pong", that has traditionally been the rule, not the exception.

Posted by: awake at February 25, 2008 1:18 PM

Pong,

I was talking about at JW. Im not going to defend these so called Christians who want to submit to Islam. In my opinion, they renounced their religion when they started to cater to Islam. I doubt you will find any Christians here that will defend the likes of these men.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 1:30 PM

Look at the bright side, people - this means 2.5m less Muslims in Indonesia. If only every country in the Ummah would compete with the West to maximize abortions, instead of widespread breeding, demographic Jihad would be a lot less of a threat than it currently is.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at February 25, 2008 1:38 PM

The real reason they hate the west is because we are dar al-harb. Everything about us is dar al-harb.
Dar al-harb must be stamped out until only dar al-Islam is left, and all worship Allah.

" When islam wins...."
pong

Is that an admission that Islam is losing now? And what great act of magick will change the course of 'that' destiny, as written by the Pen of Destiny?
Islam just starting to die a death of a million slashes. Every time there is an apostate created, or infidels becoming more informed about Islam, Islam is slashed. The slashes of Islam are not yet raining, but the clouds are gathering, soon there will be a storm....when it rains, it pours. Islam will be drenched with truth and light. Allah is stripping it of it's protective shield.
If it is Allah who is causing this destruction of Islam, God bless Allah...

Posted by: duh_swami at February 25, 2008 1:38 PM

"On the surface it sounds plausible. Jihadists do rail against American immorality, and proffer Islam as a moral alternative to the out-of-control libertinism"

The real problem is that Islam preaches an upside/down morality. Immorality is morality, and morality is immorality.

Whereas, in Islam, Britney Spears and the whole cast' of the Vagina Monologues, would be stoned to death for their immoral behavior, in the West, the stoning would be the real act of immorality, not the morally offensive antics of Britney or the fowl-mouth monologue of a play.

It is pointless to try reforming Western behavior to conform to Muslim ideals of morality, because, in order to do so, we would have to become as immoral as them.

The correct response from the West would be to tell the Islamic world that we consider their ideas of morality to be profoundly immoral, unenlightened and uncivilized -- far inferior to our own.

The D'Sousa formula seems to be to concede to the Muslims world a morality superior to ours.

Britney Spears's cleaveage doesn't scare me. On the hand, a mob of crazed Muslims intent on enforcing Allah's barbaric moral laws is another thing.

Posted by: rational at February 25, 2008 1:48 PM

I don't think we are forced to choose between an Either/Or -- Either the D'Souza Theory, Or the Spencer theory. It's Both/And.

And just because it's Both/And doesn't mean we are compelled to distribute the force of each by 50/50. I would say Spencer's theory accounts for more of the motivation of those aspects of Islam that menace us, while D'Souza's less. But there's no reason to exclude the pathologically Puritanical motivation as one piece of the puzzle.

Posted by: cantor at February 25, 2008 2:28 PM

Elric66

I do not have an authority to decide who is a “real” Christian and who is not.
Sunnis do not consider Shia to be “real” Moslems. Catholics do not think that protestants or Mormons are “real” Christians either.
As for the Christians here – most of them are not very pleasant lot. Just look at today’s posts: I have been called “A Troll” followed by such statements as one can dismiss a scholar’s work on the ground of a label (Im.mad.as.HELL). “Awake” still has a notion he is running this blog and makes comments far removed from any substance.
“If one person is mad – he goes to a psycho clinic, if many are mad – they go to a church”.

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 2:34 PM

It looks like God is more favorable to Moslems. ~ Posted by pong above.

How do you figure, things aren’t looking good for them in Iraq, Israel has been a thorn in their side for 60 years, Afghanistan hasn’t worked so well for them either. Pakistan or every other Moslem country are pretty damn illiterate and lack basic human rights, certainly nothing to envy that’s for sure.

His immorality is obvious to us but who is to say he did not follow the “true” word of God? ~ Posted by pong above.

Islam does not have the 10 commandments nor the golden rule, the Qur’an contradicts all the values found in the Bible, besides the fact it contradicts itself, that’s how you know for a fact.

Posted by: BurgerBoy at February 25, 2008 2:36 PM

"As for the Christians here – most of them are not very pleasant lot."

I thought you didnt have the authority to decide who is a real Christian.

If you dont like the name calling, quit dissing Christianity. Your time would be better served on commenting on Islam instead of mocking the faith of your allies. Just my humble opinion, take it or leave it.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 2:39 PM

pong,
Better a church than a mob on the street shouting death to america - the typical behavior of Muslims who've just left the mosque.

"When Islam wins"

Hey pong, Islam has won in Pakistan, Indonesia and many other countries. Care to live in any of them? Nah, I didn't think so.

Posted by: PMK at February 25, 2008 2:41 PM

Does anybody know how to find a comment by someone made sometime ago if one knows only the blogger’s name, but not the date the comment was made?
(Google is not a big help).

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 2:43 PM

BurgerBoy,

You are right and wrong. Yes we are killing them on the battlefield but the real battle is in the demographics and thats where Islam will win if we keep the same mentality. The longer we wait, the more bloody it will get if we are to survive. I tend to look at the big picture and its not good. Islam can not be allowed to remain in the West if the West is to survive.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 2:45 PM

pong & thesaracen should hook up and exchange notes. Oh wait, I think they already do. Silly me.

Posted by: champ at February 25, 2008 2:57 PM

Better a church than a mob on the street shouting death to america - the typical behavior of Muslims who've just left the mosque.
PMK

Better.

Hey pong, Islam has won in Pakistan, Indonesia and many other countries. Care to live in any of them? Nah, I didn't think so.

I am thinking of Europe, US, Australia. I have never lived in an Islamic country. It would be interesting to hear from people who did.

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 3:05 PM

"I am thinking of Europe"

That will be Islamic soon enough.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 3:08 PM

“I thought you didnt have the authority to decide who is a real Christian”.Elric66
I do not, I used yours (“Christians here”). You missed it.
"If you dont like the name calling, quit dissing Christianity". Elric66
Sounds like: “Stop insulting Islam”

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 3:14 PM

"Sounds like: “Stop insulting Islam”"

Not really. Islam isnt our friend. But feel free to continue insulting your allies.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 3:20 PM

darcy: Hold the phone!!!

I was detailing what the Islamist are going to tell their people, not saying I think God favors them! I'm an atheist anyway, so I cannot think that God favors them.

Sorry to have created the wrong impression. I do not think this is a good thing at all. But, their relative population increase is indeed a point in their favor, in regards to the demographics in Europe -- look how much trouble they cause as a small minority, imagine how much they can cause if they were to begin to near 50%.

I'm sorry, I try to write clearly, but sometimes I do get a bit hasty... BTW agree 100% with all your points to me. Sorry you had to do that. You needn't worry whether I am on board for defending America, the West, and our freedoms.

Thank you for all your great work here at JihadWatch... I always enjoy your posts.

Posted by: Goob at February 25, 2008 3:47 PM

Seems like the Paki,s have gotten bored of burning flags,so today they have taken a rest

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-help-dumb-phuks.html

Posted by: shiva at February 25, 2008 4:01 PM

“Awake” still has a notion he is running this blog and makes comments far removed from any substance.

Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 2:34 PM

Actually, "pong", the statement I made is substantive. Based on the title of the thread, your initial offering of:

"Mohamed, unlike Jesus, was a historical character."

was silly, baseless and off-topic. In hindsight, I should have stoped reading right there.

The rest of the tripe that you wrote was equally valueless to the discussion on this thread.

"We assume and many on this site promote, the position that because Judaism and Christianity [sic] more moral, it is the true word of God and Islam is not."
"What if the Moslems are right and we are wrong?"

"We assume?" Who is "we"?

Posted by: awake at February 25, 2008 4:10 PM

This is the most cheering thing I've read in months. Two point five million fewer Muslims in the world than there might otherwise have been. Muslims doing what they truly do best...killing other Muslims.

Posted by: Rick at February 25, 2008 4:13 PM

Awake,

"We assume and many on this site promote, the position that because Judaism and Christianity [sic] more moral, it is the true word of God and Islam is not."
"What if the Moslems are right and we are wrong?""

I missed that part from Pong. Wow, like any sane person would even ponder that Islam is right.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 4:16 PM

Just out of a completely irrelevant curiosity, What is the traditional islamic dictum on abortion, or more secifically stated, when do muslims believe the soul enters the body? Both St. Augustine and Buddhism claim that the point of entry is at birth, rather than conception, and therefore abortion is not a question of morality.

What do Islamic sources actually say?

But hey, it's much more fun to discuss Dinesh, Brittany and the Vagina Momologues, isn't it?

Posted by: skevin at February 25, 2008 4:53 PM

To Dumbo; You said "some other right wing bigmouths", then couldn't even name ONE. Yes I have a problem with the constant stream of inaccuracies from leftists. Go ahead and tell everyone how the left accurately describes islam(piss be upon it). Your comment about Leviticus is irrelavent to the fact that it is the LEFT which is in effect supporting our jihadist enemies. The right isn't perfect, but at least theres some semblance of accurately weighing the islamic(piss be upon it) threat.

Posted by: CJK at February 25, 2008 5:22 PM

whoops. sorry for the spelling and syntax errors on my last post. From now on, I'm gonna compose in Word , and then cut and paste to here.

Posted by: skevin at February 25, 2008 5:38 PM

darcy: Hold the phone!!!

I was detailing what the Islamist are going to tell their people, not saying I think God favors them! I'm an atheist anyway, so I cannot think that God favors them.

Sorry to have created the wrong impression. I do not think this is a good thing at all. But, their relative population increase is indeed a point in their favor, in regards to the demographics in Europe -- look how much trouble they cause as a small minority, imagine how much they can cause if they were to begin to near 50%.

I'm sorry, I try to write clearly, but sometimes I do get a bit hasty... BTW agree 100% with all your points to me. Sorry you had to do that. You needn't worry whether I am on board for defending America, the West, and our freedoms.

Thank you for all your great work here at JihadWatch... I always enjoy your posts.

Posted by: Goob at February 25, 2008 3:47 PM

Hi Goob - I appreciate your comment to me! Thanks for saying "I always enjoy your posts." Means a lot, Goob, because I love JW! The most important site, along with Dhimmi Watch, on the 'net.

Hey "pong" - we're so on to you, Mohammedan. No, you Moslems aren't right. In fact, you've been utterly duped by Mo the 7th century flim-flam man. I pity you, you're so stupid. Judaism and Christianity - the ONLY Abrahamic religions. I hope you find Jesus, pong - you're in desperate need of Him, the Son of God. Good Luck.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2008 6:43 PM

Wow, like any sane person would even ponder that Islam is right.

Posted by: Elric66 at February 25, 2008 4:16 PM

Hoo Boy, the only truer words are that the Earth revolves around the sun.

Posted by: darcy at February 25, 2008 6:46 PM

To answer my own silly question. Several sources on the web use the same boilerplate.

"The Qur’an does not say when the soul enters the body. However the Hadith says “the soul is breathed into the body” when the fetus is 120 days old in the womb.(Sahih Bukhari Hadith, Vol. 4, Hadith No.549)".

Although the Koran itself does not specifically prohibit abortion, the following is often used by islamic scholars who wish to impose a total ban on the act.

"Say: Come, I will rehearse what God has really prohibited you from: Join nothing as equal with Him; be good to your parents, kill not your children on a plea of poverty; We provide sustenance for you and for them; approach not shameful deeds, whether open or secret; take not life, which God has made sacred, except by a way of justice and law" (Chapter 6, Verse 151).

Posted by: skevin at February 25, 2008 7:04 PM

They hate us for our immorality, right?

No, they hate us for our freedom. They hate us for our rights. They hate us for not being subjects to the arab imperialism that they import and export. They hate our women because they are beautiful and independent. They hate our clean hospitals, schools and public buildings because they are all a testament to decency.

They hate our music and entertainment because it generates laughter and happiness. They hate our scientific, medical, architectural and scholastic achievements because these achievements advance humanity as a whole vs. making the world stand still for mohammed and his visions.

They hate whites, blacks, chinese, japanese, australians, mexicans, russians, jews, hindus, christians, wiccans, gays, newscasters and cartoonists.

They hate freedom, artistic impressions and inspirations, free thinkers, George Bush, Ccondoleeza Rice, George Rumsfeld, the US Military, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Code Pink, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, Ross Perot, Mike Huckabee. They hate poll workers, garbage men, police men, postal workers, nurses and care givers.

They hate boating and surfing, roller coasters, carousels, disney world, universal studios, MGM, football with cheerleaders, pork chops, ribs and baked beans.

They hate gays, lesbians, single mothers, female politicians, taxpayers, bankers, real estate agents, drivers of SUV's and pigs who live on farms. They even hate piggy banks.

Is there room in the civilized world for islam?

Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at February 25, 2008 7:50 PM

After Jimmy Carter handed Iran to the genocidal Ayatollahs, one of the first things they did was: legalize male pedophilia. A man could marry a 9 year old girl. Resultant over-population led the Ayatollahs to raise the marital age to 13, in 2002. Khomenists openly defy the law. Basij loyalists routinely barter their 9 year old daughters.

Read the exemplary of islam's pedophile "prophet":

Aisha said:
"My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought in while the Messenger was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. Then the men and women got up and left. The Prophet of Islam consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old."
Tabari History Vol 9, page 131

Few are aware that the fake "prophet" secured promise in marriage of Aisha, when she was only 6; he was a 55 year old horn-dog at the time. There is circumstanial evidence that he delivered future Caliph status to abu-Bakr as quid pro quo for his satisfaction of the "prophet's pedophiliac lusts. That is no proven; nor is the rumor that the kaba stone is taken by muslim leaders to be "allah's" feces, "white until the world's sins were transferred to it".

Posted by: supercargo at February 25, 2008 8:16 PM

supercargo...If you have not already seen this go to youtube and type search for 'Islamshown'. Interesting stuff about the black stone,

the black stone is God Vagina mohammed kissed part1
the black stone is God Vagina mohammed kissed part2

Posted by: duh_swami at February 25, 2008 9:07 PM

Darcy wrote:

Jamie Lynn Spears is criticized in our culture for being pregnant at 14
..............................

Actually, Spears is 16 now, and will have turned 17 by her due date--this is still way too young to have a child. Many Muslim girls, though, married off at puberty or even younger, have already got a family by this age.

Posted by: gravenimage at February 25, 2008 9:34 PM

In response to Supercargo, Colin Turner, a professor of Persian language and Islamic history, states that Muhammad's marriage in its context was not in the least improper. Such marriages between an older man and a young girl were customary among Bedouins as they still are in many societies across the world. Collin further writes that Arabs in the seventh century tended to reach adulthood at an earlier age than Westerners today. And by the way, the 1979 revolution had nothing to do with the US although previous US and British policy (e.g. the 1953 bloody CIA-sponsored coup of the democratically elected secular regime of Mohammed Mossedegh) lead to anti-American sentiments.

Anyway, it's interesting the way Muslims act. They'll probably go and protest whenever a Mosque get's demolished, while ignoring the horrible treatment of Muslims in countries such as Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, China, ect. for example, after some imams refused to comply with (former) Turkmenistani president Saparmurat Niyazov demand to display his book the "Ruhnama" (regarded as a "holy book" as part of his cult of personality) alleging that compliance would be blasphemous, the state demolished many mosques. No reaction from Muslims? In Uzbekistan, the Government cracks down on independent Muslims and tortures them on the accusation that they're terrorists (they do this without a single shred of proof, and is almost universally understood as a way for Islom Karimov's regime to crack down on opposition). There was a case in which a torture victim was actually boiled alive (submerged in boiling water) for refusing to skip prayer. In India, the Sangh Parivar family of organisations, has allegedly been involved in encouraging negative stereotyping of Muslims, and in the 2002 Gujarat violence they were responsible for encouraging attacks against Muslims. Subsequent riots led to the death of 754 Muslims. Another major incident was at Naroda Patia, where a Hindu mob, massacred more than 100 Muslims. In another incident at Best Bakery, in the city of Baroda, a family of 12 was massacred and burnt. The Gujarat riots officially led to the death of 1044 people, 754 Muslims and 290 Hindus.Human Rights Watch puts the death toll at higher figures, with 2000 deaths, mostly Muslim, but with attacks against Hindus by Muslim mobs as well. Just a few examples of the persecution of Muslims that Muslims are ignoring.

Posted by: Comment at February 25, 2008 10:41 PM

Oh and to Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis, that's just baseless rhetoric. Can you give me an example of a single terrorist attack before 1948? No. Muslims "hate" the West (actually, it's just a small percentage who make the rest look bad, but whatever) because of US policy in the region.

Posted by: Comment at February 25, 2008 10:46 PM

Catholics do not think that protestants or Mormons are “real” Christians either.

Actually, Catholics do acknowledge that Protestants are "real" Christians--just like the Orthodox, Protestants are "our separated brethren", and as such are considered Christian.

Mormons, on the other hand, are hierotheists--they believe in a hierarchy of gods; Christians believe in the Triune God (the Three that are One), and as such are monotheists. Mormons are, by their own theology, not Christians.

Posted by: Dennis_Mahon at February 25, 2008 10:46 PM

"Mohamed, unlike Jesus, was a historical character." Posted by: pong at February 25, 2008 10:23 AM

pong, your entire post is wrong on every imaginable level. I almost gave you the benefit of the doubt as being an honest seeker of truth, until I noticed your subtle and cunning point above.
They call this tactic taqqiya, don't they? Nice try, but I don't think were quite ready to roll over to inshalla just yet.
Better go find ping, pong.

Posted by: Lt. Presley O'Bannon at February 25, 2008 11:12 PM

".. These followers were given a choose, worship Caesar and live or worship Jesus and die. They choose the later because of faith. And here is another telling fact about dying for what you believe. They did not strap bombs on themselves and kill as many as they could for some perverse future reward. They choose to die because they already had been given eternal life."

Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at February 25, 2008 1:15 PM

Beautifully put.

Posted by: Lt. Presley O'Bannon at February 25, 2008 11:32 PM

Does anybody know how to find a comment by someone made sometime ago if one knows only the blogger’s name, but not the date the comment was made? (Google is not a big help).

Actually, Google is a great help. Search "Posted by: pong" (note the one space after the colon) and "(Enter exact quote)" and jihadwatch.org. Make sure you page to the end of the search and click the hypertext to "repeat the search with the omitted results included".

Then you can find amazing quotes like this one:

It is not the loss of lives of American soldiers I am concerned about, but the senseless, unnecessary losses going on in the war which can not be won.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at February 25, 2008 11:40 PM

Do I even want to reply to pong? At least the poster describes himself correctly; as a stench in any right-minded person's nose. Well, I never had troubles tilting at windmills before, so...

Pong, you are an Grade-A ignoramus. Yes, you are. Considering that you can make such stupidly unbelievable statements, such as

"Mohamed, unlike Jesus, was a historical character. He was a warrior and a religious leader, which is in line with the Jewish tradition of the messiah. He “communicated” with God regularly and was acting on advice even in small matters."

I believe I am on solid ground.

1. Jesus IS a historical character, you dodo. (No offence to dodos intended) Extra-biblical evidence from Josephus (Josephus!) as well as Pliny the Younger (no fan of Christians he) indicate that. And that is assuming that you do not accept Biblical sources as correct. Which you sort of have to, because those are the same sources you use to speak about the Jewish expectation of the Anointed One.

2. Who did you think Isaiah was talking about when he described the Suffering Servant, you rutabaga? (No offence to rutabagas intended) Does 'bruised for our transgressions' and 'by His stripes we are healed' fit Jesus or Mo?

3. Is ol' Mo from the Jews? Is he of the line of David? I can safely assume the answer is not only 'No' it's 'Hell, no!', you brontosaurus. (No offence to mythical beasts intended)

Further, you blathered

"If one believes that God could “turn his back on the Jews”, why couldn’t he do it again?"

4. God also promised that He will deliver His people, and that He will return them to their land. What are the Mo' nuts doing over there, by the way? You amoeba! (No offence to brainless unicellular creatures intended)

You know, I'm wasting a whole lot of time on you. But I will do you a favour.

"I am thinking of Europe, US, Australia. I have never lived in an Islamic country. It would be interesting to hear from people who did."

Well, I live in Malaysia, which is *theoretically* a secular country. Yeah, a secular country whose official religion is Islam. And is a member of OIC (was chair of OIC for a while). So, I think that qualifies.

Let me tell you what it's like here, OK? The only exception to everything here is the Internet - but not if you use Malaysian servers. No freedom of speech - no matter how true. You don't like the Patriot Act and Gitmo? The ISA allows the government to jail anyone for any length of time without pressing charges for 'national security'. Which includes, by the way, anything that might 'disrupt the multiracial and religious harmony.'

No freedom of religion - once you're born Muslim, you'll die Muslim. Maybe Robert deals with it on Dhimmi Watch (or maybe he was way ahead of our press, since I came across this site relatively late, and didn't read *every* post in the archives), but I was wondering why he didn't say much about Lina Joy. And if you are a celebrity, or you have lots of loot, the authorities will just declare you a Muslim when you die and nothing goes to your family (unless one or more are also Muslim). Proof? We don't need no steekin proof (or we'll just pretend that a comatose patient managed to wake up for 12 seconds to sign his Shahada form and immediately lapse back into a coma - two days before he dies - Praise Allah's Powers!)

No freedom of association. You need a permit to hold gatherings, demonstrations, whatever. Guess how high your chances of getting those are.

No equality before the law - if you are Muslim, you're tried in the Shariah system. Even the question of whether you are Muslim or not gets referred there - this despite the fact that there is a supreme court of the land (the Federal Court) and *they* should be the final arbiters.

No 2nd Amendment rights. Yet somehow crims get their hands on guns anyways.

No freedom of the press. Say anything they (meaning the government) don't like? Your licence is revoked.

Affirmative action? Sure - but for the majority Muslim Malays only.

And while these are business and economic decisions, all fast food chains here are halal. Regulations on the rearing and sale of pigs/pork is rather tight. They even have separate counters (and you think Wal-Mart is bad!)

Of course, the chances of a MAS flight ever getting hijacked is slim to none. Still, the only time an SIA flight got hijacked, they all died and no one else was hurt. That's gotta be better, no?

Dhimmi status? If you pay zakat, your taxes are reduced by the same amount. Which means that income tax is jizya to all intents and purposes. Want to build a housing estate? You must build a surau/mosque - and no other religious building. Want a church? Get the permit - and you can guess how long that will take. No church can have loudspeakers mounted, and new church bells are more or less a no-no.

All in all, despite all the above, Malaysia is still a safe, stable place to be. Relatively speaking. And taxes are at 28-29% at the highest marginal bracket. And of course, TOR and Freenet makes any kind of censorship a laugh.

But if you think I won't trade all this for a US citizenship, you'er out of your mind. Heck, you probably are already, anyways. (No offence to lunatics intended)

Robert, feel free to edit this. I don't want to waste too much of your bandwidth on this bozo. (No offence to clowns intended)

Posted by: gkong3 at February 25, 2008 11:56 PM

They hate the WEst for immorality ?

Then what about the Profiteer (Piss be upon him) 's adventures with Aisha ?

What about his sexcapades with his daughter in law Zainab ?

What about his numerous wivews and countless concubines ?

What about his activities of kidnapping, ransoming, dacoity, plundering and genocide ?

Posted by: proud-hindu at February 26, 2008 12:12 AM

Actually, they hate us for daring to live and prosper without Islamic control.

Posted by: carpediadem at February 26, 2008 4:34 AM

Posted by: Comment at February 25, 2008 10:46 PM

Michael Scheuer, is that you?

Posted by: awake at February 26, 2008 8:44 AM

They hate us because we invent everything and they invent nothing.

Not one person could furnish me with a Mohammedan invention.

Shiva replied but that was just a joke.

Mohammadans, what a bunch of parasites on the rest of the world.

Posted by: darcy at February 26, 2008 8:47 AM

They hate the WEst for immorality ?

Then what about the Profiteer (Piss be upon him) 's adventures with Aisha ?

What about his sexcapades with his daughter in law Zainab ?

What about his numerous wivews and countless concubines ?

What about his activities of kidnapping, ransoming, dacoity, plundering and genocide ?

YES BUT all these activities were sanctioned by Allah for the perfect man.

So there !

AND stop slagging off our muslim brethren - you know it makes sense.

Posted by: ericthekuffar at February 26, 2008 8:48 AM

Here is a URL about a news report of fresh testing on the Shroud of Turin.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/25/nshroud125.xml

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at February 26, 2008 10:30 AM

"Muslims hate booze too, yet none of the Savage types ever suggested we go back to prohibition to satiate the jihadists"

THEY'RE HYPOCRITES about BOOZE, TOO!

My brother (returned from deployment) tells this story: As Ramadan approached last year, local army folks began to plan their Ramadan parties and were looking for some better brands. (Remember they fast all day, and party all night) They approached my brother, and said, "I bet you guys have the best alcohol in your quarters, don't you?" My brother said, "No we don't have any alcohol at all on our post." The locals army was astonished, "Why?" "Well, our nation believes that it would be an affront to your country and your faith for us to have alcohol in a post inside your country." He said translating the word "affront" into the local lingo was the most difficult part, because there is no equivalent word. The locals looked at him and said, "You guys are idiots."

Posted by: thelittlegreekwoman at February 26, 2008 10:48 AM

TO COMMENT; You must be completely devoid of any historical knowledge except for what your professors feed you. Islam's(piss be upon it)whole history is entertwined with terrorism! To directly answer your question concerning the United States, have you ever heard of the barbary pirates? No. Look it up numbnut. You evidently have never read the Queeron or Hadith either. Anyone who invests even 10 hours browsing through that wicked trash will come away with a clear understanding that any such 'religion' is from below. I wonder if your professors can also explain away mohammad's(piss be upon him)cold blooded murdering,raping,kidnapping for ransom,thievery, and torturing in order to find concealed treasure! (Probrably just harmless custom in 7th century arabia). It seems to be harmless muslim practice today also. These events are recorded by muhammed,(piss be upon him)his allies and followers in the queeron and hadith, so don't blame the ole bogey-man colonial west you liberal idiot!

Posted by: CJK at February 26, 2008 11:34 AM

"the black stone is God Vagina mohammed kissed part1"

That would make the Qur'an the Vagina Monologue.

Posted by: cantor at February 26, 2008 2:01 PM

PMK!

I read every word of Andrew C. McCarthy's understanding of Jihad and consider it a revelation of great importance! Thanks for mentioning it in your blog. Am glad to know that he has included it in a forthcoming book.

Posted by: youngtimer at February 26, 2008 3:13 PM

"They hate us because we invent everything and they invent nothing."- darcy

But the Muslims invented the camera obscura, hang glider, soap bar, shampoo, pure distillation, liquefaction, oxidisation, filtration, distilled alcohol, crankshaft, valve, reciprocating suction piston pump, mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, combination lock, pointed arch, many surgical tools, windmill, inoculation, smallpox vaccine, fountain pen, cryptanalysis, frequency analysis, three-course meal, Persian carpet, modern cheque, celestial globe, and an early torpedo:

A thousand years before the Wright Brothers, a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. The cloak slowed his fall, creating the first parachute. In 875, having created a glider, jumped from a mountain, stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing - concluding correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing.
The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine. One of the most important mechanical inventions in the history of humankind, it was created by an ingenious Muslim engineer called al-Jazari to raise water for irrigation. It is considered one of the most important inventions next to the wheel. His 1206 Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices shows he also invented or refined the use of valves and pistons, devised some of the first mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, and was the father of robotics. Among his 50 other inventions was the combination lock.
The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation. In the vast deserts of Arabia, when the seasonal streams ran dry, the only source of power was the wind which blew steadily from one direction for months. Mills had six or 12 sails covered in fabric or palm leaves. It was 500 years before the first windmill was seen in Europe.
The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it.
Algebra was named after al-Khwarizmi's book, Al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, much of whose contents are still in use. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci. Algorithms and much of the theory of trigonometry came from the Muslim world. And Al-Kindi's discovery of frequency analysis rendered all the codes of the ancient world soluble and created the basis of modern cryptology.
Ali ibn Nafi, known by his nickname of Ziryab (Blackbird) came from Iraq to Cordoba in the 9th century and brought with him the concept of the three-course meal - soup, followed by fish or meat, then fruit and nuts. He also introduced crystal glasses (which had been invented after experiments with rock crystal by Abbas ibn Firnas.
Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a "self-moving and combusting egg", and a torpedo - a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up.
The fountain pen was invented for the Sultan Ma'ad al-Mu'izz of Egypt in 953 after he demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes. It held ink in a reservoir and, as with modern pens, fed ink to the nib by a combination of gravity and capillary action.

Just to name a few.

Source:"How Islamic Inventors Changed the World", Independent, The (London), Mar 11, 2006 by Paul Vallely.

Posted by: Comment at February 26, 2008 4:10 PM

"TO COMMENT; You must be completely devoid of any historical knowledge except for what your professors feed you..."-CJK

What about the lack of suicide bombings in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in Israel for nearly 30 years after the occupation began? the massive increase in suicide bombing has meant most suicide bombings in 2003? Can you name a single suicide attack before 1948 by Muslims? The Barbary pirates, yes, they were pirates (privateers, the same thing Christians were doing, so your argument kinda fails). And even if Islamic history is interlinked with terrorism (which it isn't), Christian sentiments have historically not been different, which such stuff as "freedom" ending only after the secularization of Christian society. I'll give you a few examples: the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, instance of Christian terrorism on par with modern day Islamic terrorism, and goes on to write, that massacre, said Pope Gregory XIII, gave him more pleasure than "fifty Battles of Lepanto, and he commissioned Vasari to paint frescoes of it in the Vatican". It is estimated that ten thousand to possibly one-hundred thousand Huguenots (French Protestants) were killed by Catholic mobs, and it has been called "the worst of the century's religious massacres". The massacre led to the start of the fourth war of the French Wars of Religion.
The Cromwellian conquest of Ireland as terrorism; "The draconian laws applied by Oliver Cromwell in Ireland were an early version of ethnic cleansing. The Catholic Irish were to be expelled to the northwestern areas of the island. Relocation rather than extermination was the goal." Daniel Chirot has argued that genocide was originally the goal, inspired by the Biblical account of Joshua and the genocide following the Battle of Jericho.

Christian anti-Semitism is captured in the writings of Martin Luther:
"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them.
This is to be done in honor of our Lord and Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, blaspheming of his son and of his Christians..."

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed...

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remember, this is the founder of the Lutheran Church speaking).

"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb..." (wow...)

"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasures of silver and gold be taken from them for safekeeping..." (umm...wow?)

"Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen. 3:19)"see "Von den Jüden und iren Lügen" (On the Jews and Their Lies) by Martin Luther.

This era of stability we see in the West today is only the result of the West learning from its violent history. Furthermore, In his "World without Islam" essay, Graham Fuller, former vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council at the CIA and an adjunct professor of history at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, analyzed the internal dynamics of the region independently from religion, and quickly discovered, however, that a Middle East without Islam would still remain complex and conflicted as ever. And even then, we will always have religious terrorism (there are Buddhist terrorists...), Christianity isn't exempt: "TO COMMENT; You must be completely devoid of any historical knowledge except for what your professors feed you..."-CJK

What about the lack of suicide bombings in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in Israel for nearly 30 years after the occupation began? the massive increase in suicide bombing has meant most suicide bombings in 2003? Can you name a single suicide attack before 1948 by Muslims? The Barbary pirates, yes, they were pirates (privateers, the same thing Christians were doing, so your argument kinda fails). And even if Islamic history is interlinked with terrorism (which it isn't), Christian sentiments have historically not been different, which such stuff as "freedom" ending only after the secularization of Christian society. I'll give you a few examples: the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, instance of Christian terrorism on par with modern day Islamic terrorism, and goes on to write, that massacre, said Pope Gregory XIII, gave him more pleasure than "fifty Battles of Lepanto, and he commissioned Vasari to paint frescoes of it in the Vatican". It is estimated that ten thousand to possibly one-hundred thousand Huguenots (French Protestants) were killed by Catholic mobs, and it has been called "the worst of the century's religious massacres". The massacre led to the start of the fourth war of the French Wars of Religion.
The Cromwellian conquest of Ireland as terrorism; "The draconian laws applied by Oliver Cromwell in Ireland were an early version of ethnic cleansing. The Catholic Irish were to be expelled to the northwestern areas of the island. Relocation rather than extermination was the goal." Daniel Chirot has argued that genocide was originally the goal, inspired by the Biblical account of Joshua and the genocide following the Battle of Jericho.

Christian anti-Semitism is captured in the writings of Martin Luther:
"First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them.
This is to be done in honor of our Lord and Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, blaspheming of his son and of his Christians..."

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed...

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remember, this is the founder of the Lutheran Church speaking).

"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb..." (wow...)

"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasures of silver and gold be taken from them for safekeeping..." (umm...wow?)

"Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen. 3:19)"see "Von den Jüden und iren Lügen" (On the Jews and Their Lies) by Martin Luther.

This era of stability we see in the West today is only the result of the West learning from its violent history. Furthermore, In his "World without Islam" essay, Graham Fuller, former vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council at the CIA and an adjunct professor of history at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, analyzed the internal dynamics of the region independently from religion, and quickly discovered, however, that a Middle East without Islam would still remain complex and conflicted as ever. And even then, there will always be religious terrorism (there are Buddhist terrorists...) Christianity is not exempt: 17 Christians were convicted of religion-inspired terrorism under Indonesian law for the murder of two Muslim men in September 2006. The two men were reportedly killed as retaliation for a previous court ordered execution in 2006 of three Christians convicted of leading a militant group which killed hundreds of Muslims in Poso in 2000. The Concerned Christians "planned to carry out violent and extreme acts in the streets of Jerusalem at the end of 1999 to start the process of bringing Jesus back to life", and believed that being killed by police would "lead them to heaven." The group were planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem; some fundamentalist Christians believe that the Al-Aqsa mosque, one of Islam's holiest shrines in Jerusalem, must be destroyed and an ancient Jewish temple restored in its place, before Jesus can return to Earth. Recent News: KAMPALA (Reuters) 10 Feb 2008,- Officials at the Uganda peace talks in southern Sudan are investigating a report that Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) rebels killed dozens of people in recent attacks in the region, the Ugandan military said on Sunday. KHARTOUM, Feb 3 - At least four people have been killed and 13 abducted in south Sudan by suspected Ugandan rebels from the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA).
UBA, Sudan (AFP) 2 days ago — Ugandan rebels from the Lord's Resistance Army killed 136 people and looted property during an attack earlier this week in southern Sudan, a senior military officer said Friday.
Wait, there's Hindu terrorism too, are you going to call Hinduism a religion of violence? India (MNN) ― Hindu militants have "forced" Christian families to "convert" to Hinduism. Now, they're threatening to resume attacks against Christians. NEW DELHI, INDIA- An elderly pastor in India's Orissa state, who fled the deadliest Hindu-violence against Indian Christians there in recent memory, has died in a government-run refugee camp, a well-informed rights group confirmed Tuesday, January 22.
Yes, how about calling Sikhisms, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, ect "violent religions, just because a few people have hijacked them? And by the way: The Oxford-based Malayist jurist, Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti, issued his landmark fatwa on suicide bombing titled 'Defending the Transgressed, by Censuring the Reckless against the Killing of Civilians'. Also, one of Shia Islam's highest ranking marja clerics, Ayatollah al-Udhma Yousof al-Sanei also decreed a fatwa against suicide bombing, declaring it as a "terrorist act."
There are many scholastic refutations of suicide bombings. Ihsanic Intelligence, an Islamic think-tank, published their 2-year study into suicide bombings, titled 'The Hijacked Caravan', which concluded that, "The technique of suicide bombing is anathema, antithetical and abhorrent to Islam. It is considered forbidden... a reprehensible innovation in the Islamic ... an enormity of sin combining suicide and murder and theologically an act which has consequences of eternal damnation."
And guess what the Qur'an says about suicide bombing?
"O ye who believe! do not kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).
"Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause...(ie death penalty for murder, although even then, the victims relatives are encouraged to forgive the offender." (17:33).
"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors." Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:190)

Posted by: Comment at February 26, 2008 4:49 PM

"I wonder if your professors can also explain away mohammad's(piss be upon him)cold blooded murdering,raping,kidnapping for ransom,thievery, and torturing in order to find concealed treasure! (Probrably just harmless custom in 7th century arabia)."-CJK

No comment. I'll just point you to a few verses like :"And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho. And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp. And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." - Numbers 31:17-18

or

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it."
But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD." So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword."- Joshua 6:17-21. You really can't criticize what Muhammad did (and he was doing it in defense since the Pagan Arabs were persecuting the Muslims) when the Israelites committed genocide.

Posted by: Comment at February 26, 2008 5:01 PM

Sorry about the same message 2 times on the same post. I was writing this on Microsoft word, lol, and I accidentally pasted two times.

Sorry. ;)

Posted by: Comment at February 26, 2008 5:09 PM

TO COMMENT; As usual when faced with facts, any deceptive muslim replies by attacking christian history. Whatever so called 'Christians of the past may or may have not done is irrelevant to Islam's(piss be upon it) defense. The Barbary pirates were operating as Islamists(piss be upon them) in complete accord with the queeron and their 'religious' athorities. You asked for an example and I gave it. You can't however destroy my truthful comments about the queeron and mo'(piss be upon him). Like I said the history of Islam(piss be upon it) is entwined with terrorism. You obviously eat left wing trash and don't know history. Anyway to crawl down to your level and defend Christianity; There are no open ended instructions from God to continue warring till all non-believers are subdued or converted. Anyone and that means ANYONE who commits violence is disobeying the Christian scriptures. The only sure way to enter allah's(curses upon him) bordello is to die in warfare. For you to equate Judaism or Christianity with such wickedness as Islam(piss be upon it) only shows your leftist ignorance!

Posted by: CJK at February 26, 2008 5:36 PM

Comment,

I'm still waiting for your responses to my questions about one of your previous posts, at:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/020080.php#comments

Posted by: cantor at February 26, 2008 6:49 PM

Isn't our purported immorality our own damn problem? So even if they *did* hate us for our "immorality" - so what?

We don't live to please *them*.

Where have we come to that we should even consider perceived immorality a legitimate reason for hatred?

Posted by: Allah Schmallah at February 26, 2008 7:23 PM

Posted by: Comment at February 26, 2008 4:10 PM

"Comment" is a curious fellow indeed. Remember however, that there is a fine line between genius and insanity.

This is not one of those cases. The distinction is quite clear.

Posted by: awake at February 26, 2008 11:41 PM

I've given up waiting for the facist left to reply so I'll throw in a couple parting slaps. Islamic(piss be upon it) science is the perfect definition of an oxymoron. Many of Islam's(piss be upon it) early achievements were due to their stablizing influence over previously restive areas. Their conquests brought political stability even though the conquered were relegated to 2nd class status as dictated directly by mo'(piss be upon him). The resulting scientific advances were usually achieved by .. you guessed it if you're smart... Christians and Jews. Even the touted Taj Mahal was erected by what true Islamist's(piss be upon them) would consider a heretic. Any the poor list of supposed Muslim inventions brought forward is ridiculously puny. Imagine the list of Jewish inventions one could come up with! Yes the Joooos, the most cursed people according to Islam(piss be upon it) and less than 1% of Islams(piss be upon it) numbers. But current Islam(piss be upon it) is really what current Islam(piss be upon it) does, and that isn't much. Poor, backward, violent, corrupt, and oppressive, the only prosperous Islamic(piss be upon them) states are the ones with natural resources (usually petroleum), with the possible exception of Turkey. Go ahead lefties make my day and showcase Turkey yoyu Turkeys. Even those nations endowed with natural resources need westerners to extract it for them! All one needs to do is spend a little time researching this 'religion' it's results, and it's history to be amazed at how degenerative and backward it is.

Posted by: CJK at February 27, 2008 2:26 PM

"he only sure way to enter allah's(curses upon him) bordello is to die in warfare."-CJK

Uhh...no, actually, "Ibn Abbas reported that the Muhammad said: To the devil, a learned theologian is stronger than a thousand pious worshippers." (Tirmizi, Ibn Majah) "On the Day of Resurrection, the ink of the learned will be weighed with the blood of martyr." (Ibn Abdulbar)

"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. But do not transgress limits. Truly Allah loves not the transgressors." Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:190)

"Many of Islam's(piss be upon it) early achievements were due to their stablizing influence over previously restive areas."-CJK

Umm, actually, most Muslims scholars encouraged learning and were influenced by such verses as:

"Anas reported that the Muhammad said: Search knowledge though it be in China." (Baihaqi)

He giveth wisdom unto whom He will, and he unto whom wisdom is given, he truly hath received abundant good. But none remember except men of understanding. (2:Al-Baqarah:269)

Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Are those who know equal with those who know not? But only men of understanding will pay heed. (39:Az-Zumar:9)

Anas reported that the Messenger of Allah said: Whoso goes out in search of knowledge, he is in the path of Allah till he returns. (Tirmizi)

And when it is said, Come up higher! Go up higher; Allah will exalt those who believe among you, and those who have knowledge, to high ranks. Allah is informed of what ye do. (58:Al-Mujadilah:11)

“It is better to learn any chapter of knowledge than to pray 100 Rakats of prayer.” (Ibn Abdulbar, Ibn Majah)

And yes, most of the major inventions of the Islamic period were invented by Muslims, although I won't deny the importance of Jewish scientists in Iberia and Baghdad. Oh, and Jews enjoyed extensive privileges in Islamic States, compared to how Christians treated Jews (hmmm...massacres, anyone?). There were no barriers preventing them from conducting financial and social activities. The Grand Vizier of Baghdad entrusted his capital to Jewish bankers. Siraf, the principal port of the Caliphate in the 900’s, had a Jewish governor. The Ottoman Empire served as a refuge for Spanish Jews who had been expelled from the Spain. Yes, there was discrimination and pogroms against Jews during the Almohad dynasty, but that was nothing compared to what happened in Christian Europe and its possessions. For example, during the Goa Inquisition, just being found in a Jewish Shabbat assembly bought you a free ticket to the stake. If you confessed at the last moment, you would be "mercifully" garroted to death. Otherwise, you get burned at the stake (wow, that sounds fun). The Goa Inquisition also caused a massive depopulation of Muslims and Hindus. Anyway, you claim that Islam states that Jews are "cursed" (which is completely indefensible). Let's look at what the Bible says:

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."- John 8:44

Martin Luther in 1543 wrote "On the Jews and Their Lies," an antisemitic work in which he refers to Jews as "a brood of vipers and children of the devil" (from Matthew 12:34), "miserable, blind, and senseless," "truly stupid fools," "thieves and robbers," "lazy rogues," "daily murderers," and "vermin," and likens them to "gangrene." He then goes on to recommend that Jewish synagogues and schools be burned, their homes razed and destroyed, their writings confiscated, their rabbis forbidden to teach, their travel restricted, that lending money be outlawed for them, and that they be forced to earn their wages in farming. Luther advised.
Several months after publishing On the Jews and Their Lies, Luther wrote Vom Schem Hamphoras, in which he equated Jews with the Devil. Perhaps the harshest verse in the New Testament used for antisemitic purposes is Matthew 27:25 in which Jews prompt Jesus' crucifixion and say "His blood be on us, and on our children."

The Gospel of John is the only one that collectively describes the enemies of Jesus as "the Jews." One thing has become clear: the image of "the Jews" acting collectively as the enemy of Jesus became fixed in the Christian mind. Successive generations of Christians read in the gospels the collective guilt of the Jews in the death of Christ. The Gospel of Matthew contains approximately 90 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic. The Gospel of Mark contains approximately 40 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic. The Gospel of Luke contains approximately 60 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic. The Gospel of John contains approximately 130 verses of defamatory anti-Jewish polemic. he A