Count Senator (Mu)barak Hussein Obama as one of them!

Posted by: pythagoras at February 27, 2008 2:05 PM

Um......am I being cynical by asking if the figures may have been slightly skewed by Taqiya?

Posted by: Abu_Lahab at February 27, 2008 2:07 PM

Pythagoras:

That's a lot of hooey.

Posted by: MarisolJW at February 27, 2008 2:12 PM

Abu Lahab,

Yeah, Dr. Esposito and Dalia Mogahed always team up to skew the results... I take all their polls with a grain of salt..

Cheers

Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at February 27, 2008 2:21 PM

If you haven't left a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear

for example, the verse that says taking one innocent life is like killing all humanity

UUUUUMMMMMMMMM

Posted by: ericthekuffar at February 27, 2008 2:25 PM

"Do you think John Esposito even noticed the chasm of cognitive dissonance widening at his feet?"

Yeah.
He is banking that no one else does.

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at February 27, 2008 2:27 PM

Marisol:

Obama's 'church' has been investigated first-hand and found to be an active hiding place for Muslims. The IRS is now after the same church.

Thus it's NOT 'hooey'!

Either Obama is either a practicing dhimmi (assistant to Islam an daccessory to jihad) or a practicing Muslim and a jihadist. take your pick.

Posted by: pythagoras at February 27, 2008 2:27 PM

pythagoras - I agree that Obama should be looked at very closely due to this 'church' he belongs to, and that no stone should go unturned given his supposedly shallow Muslim background.

He may not be a Muslim, but he certainly is Mysterious - neither of which sets my mind at ease.

Posted by: champ at February 27, 2008 2:35 PM

Frankly, I, as do others, take this “survey” with a grain of salt. I have taken enough surveys, albeit, non-scientific, within the Muslim community in this city. The results: remain, extremely, vigilant, folks.
Needless to say, I am not some mollycoddling, apologist, leftist, nor am I a Nazi, as some of the trolls paint those posting on this site.
Agreed Pythagoras, the thought of Obama becoming commander-in-chief is blood-chilling. I am more than convinced if Castro was to run for president, the dullard supporters of Obama would have to toss a coin!

Posted by: ballzack at February 27, 2008 2:35 PM

These opinion polls, where it is Muslims who are being polled, are always skewed -- but not, as with other opinion polls, skewed now this way and now that way, but skewed in only one way. No Muslim, being interviewed as to whether or not he "approves" of a terrorist act, is going to say he approves of it if he does not. In other words, there will be no cases in which someone will declare, falsely, that he approves. [Compare a public opinion poll about support for candidates, in which one can imagine, in a despotism, people lying about whom they will support, or even in a democracy, lying in order to meet the expectations, as they see it, of the interviewer. How many Americans right now may be afraid of being thought either "racist" (so answering one way) or "sexist" (so answering another)?]

They are especially skewed because Muslims know perfectly well when the results are to be disseminated among non-Muslims, and they know perfectly well that non-Muslims are watching keenly to see for signs of support for violence.

So the figure of 91 million is not the absolute largest number of Muslims who support the most outrageous and famous attack on non-Muslim civilians, that of 9/11/2001, but the absolute rock-bottom number. And since it is a principle of Islam that "war is deception," since that injunction from Muhammad himself led to religiously-sanctioned dissiumulation, that is not limited to Taqiyya (which originates in Shi'a Islam but is no longer limited to it) and Kitman ("mental reservation") but has become a perfectly normal and natural way for Muslims to deal with non-Muslims when speaking about Islam, the entire spectacle of this Opinion Poll is not one that should comfort anyone, but rather be seen as the ludicrous effort it always was intended to be, to calm our fears.

And when we discount many of the responses as simply designed to allay non-Muslim fears, especially since those fears, if they grow, might actually lead to an ending of Muslim migration to Infidel lands, and that is something they do not wish to see stopped, not now and not ever, or to a hardening of Infidel attitudes toward Muslim demands, made at every level, for changes in the social arrangements (from women's gym hours) to those of the workplace (the demands for prayer rooms and time off, five times a day, for the canonical prayers), to public spaces (again, those prayer rooms or at least those "shared prayer rooms" that quickly become open for "Muslims Only"), to legal codes (demands for the Shari'a to be imposed on Muslims as a "community"), to political institutions (demands for changes in the basic understandings, including the rights guaranteed in this country by the Free Speech and Free Exercise clauses), that Muslims wish to transform so as to longer constitute what they consider an "obstacle" to the spread, and future dominance, of Islam.

It is your guess, or mine, how many answered with a lie.

It is also your guess, and mine, as to how many who claim to have been opposed to the 9/11/2001 attacks nonetheless have no trouble defending terrorist attacks on, say, Israel by Hamas and Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad and, before them all, by the PLO, or defending the terrorism of Pakistani and Indian groups that have driven 400,000 Hindus out of Kashmir, and that result in bombs being set off in Mumbai and attacks on the Indian Parliament in Delhi. And how many of those answering now claim to be opposed to the 9/11/2001 attacks just the way some imams did, when they noisily joined Interfaith Vigils, only for the security services to subsequently discover that their real views -- sometimes caught on tape -- were quite other, forcing some of them to flee abroad, and others to lie low.

What do the defectors say, those who, just like KGB defectors during the Cold War, are the surest and truest guides to what Muslims are taught to think, what the attitudes and atmospherics of those growing up in states or societies or even families sufffused with Islam, really think when they know there are no Infidels around to easvesdrop? We know what the defectors think. Ask Wafa Sultan. Or Nonie Darwish. Or Ibn Warraq, Or Irfan Khawaja. Or Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Or Ali Sina.To a man and a woman, they all think the same thing, about what Islam inculcates, and what a great many Muslims, the overwhelming majority of Muslims, therefore believe. And the numbers of those who support violent Jihad, through what we have no difficulty calling "terrorism" but that they consider to be legitimate "combat" or qitaal, would not then be 91 million, but five or ten times that number.

And what about those who don't support Jihad through terrorism? Oh, those? They support it through other means, through deployment of the Money Weapon, campaigns of Da'wa, demographic conquest from within the Bilad al-kufr. If the goal is the same -- the spread and dominance, all over the world, of Islam -- does it matter quite so much which instruments one chooses to further that goal? Is demographic conquest, are campaigns of Da'wa, less of a permanent threat?

Missing-the-pointness is the essence of this sweetly sinister, meant-to-comfort but deeply discomforting, opinion poll.

A word to the wise.

Keep your powder dry.

Count those spoons even faster.

Und so weiter.

Posted by: Hugh at February 27, 2008 2:37 PM

The most pitiful thing about all of this Islam crap we have to deal with? Allah doesn't exist.

I just watched Part 1 of Theo Van Gogh's film "Submission" on youtube, the film he died for. The Muslim woman speaking relates being forced to marry Aziz, whom she is repulsed by, so for her marital relations are just her being raped. In addition, she is beaten and battered by Aziz. Then, she is actually raped by her uncle Hakim, and tells her mother who tells her father who says "Don't question my brother's honor." So, she keeps getting raped by Hakim, who impregantes her.

Throughout all of this horror of a life, for which she will never receive any justice in Islam, she continually calls out to "Allah." Who never responds. Finally, she asks "why do you remain silent?" You see - there it is, allah "remains silent" because there is no Allah.

Any Christian who knows Jesus knows that if you call to Him, he DOES NOT "remain silent." That's because He is a true God and a Living God. He hears and He answers. He cares. Unlike "allah" Jesus IS "compassionate and merciful." This poor Muslim woman calling out to a pagan deity that never existed, a rock idol. The pitifulness of it is beyond belief.

Now I'm going to watch Part 2.

Posted by: darcy at February 27, 2008 2:43 PM

These opinion polls, where it is Muslims who are being polled, are always skewed -- but not, as with other opinion polls, skewed now this way and now that way, but skewed in only one way. No Muslim, being interviewed as to whether or not he "approves" of a terrorist act, is going to say he approves of it if he does not. In other words, there will be no cases in which someone will declare, falsely, that he approves. [Compare a public opinion poll about support for candidates, in which one can imagine, in a despotism, people lying about whom they will support, or even in a democracy, lying in order to meet the expectations, as they see it, of the interviewer. How many Americans right now may be afraid of being thought either "racist" (so answering one way) or "sexist" (so answering another)?]

They are especially skewed because Muslims know perfectly well when the results are to be disseminated among non-Muslims, and they know perfectly well that non-Muslims are watching keenly to see for signs of support for violence.

DUH

Posted by: GrennBeck at February 27, 2008 2:48 PM

“Only 91 million”, Alexander the Great only had a few tens of thousands and he conquered more of the earth then any one else. “Only 91 million”, bah! What a nice way to lure you into a false sense of safety if “Only 91 million” support blowing up markets and shops filled with Kafur just how many do you need to actually carry out these operations we’ve only had a little over ten thousand since 9/11.

“Moderate Muslims interviewed for the poll condemned the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington because innocent lives were lost and civilians killed.”

Errr… right… everyone remember the lesson on this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

"Some actually cited religious justifications for why they were against 9/11, going as far as to quote from the Koran -- for example, the verse that says taking one innocent life is like killing all humanity," she said.

Oh she means this verse 005.032

“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”

Nice, now if you read the WHOLE VERSE. It’s a death threat against the Jews. If they touch even one Mohammedan that kills a Jew. Or if they preach their own religion, the Mohammedan would take an eye for an eye and slaughter a WHOLE PEOPLE in return for it.

This, folks, is called Taqqiya! They take their own text out of context to perform this smoke screen and say, “see… it’s peaceful in the Koran”. They just hope you don’t really stop and read the verse they recite. And remember only Mohammedan are innocent.

“Meanwhile, radical Muslims gave political, not religious, reasons for condoning the attacks, the poll showed.”

Mohammedanism is political, there is no “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and render unto God what is God’s” verse in all of the Koran. In fact it’s the opposite, THE ONLY LAWS ARE CONSIDERED TO BE ALLAH’S, ALL OTHERS ARE AMN MADE AND TO BE SMASHED, CRUSHED, AND DESTROYED BY THE MUJAHADEEN.

Posted by: senor doeboy at February 27, 2008 2:49 PM

"The poll has given voice to Islam's silent majority, said Mogahed."

Why does it require a poll to give voice to Islam's silent majority? If Islam is being hyjacked by Muslims misrepresenting True Islam, why are they so silent about it?

They're not all that shy about rampaging through the streets, murdering and burning, over a cartoon.

If the pollsters asked if someone should be put to death for apostasy or blasphame against the Prophet or Islam, they would have got a far more accurate picture of Islam's peaceful nature.

But then, that's not what they were looking for.

Posted by: rational at February 27, 2008 2:51 PM

This just in from the Center for Disease Control. When a single case of Mad Cow Disease is discovered, millions and tens of millions of animals are quarantined, and whole herds may be slaughtered. And similar measures are taken for what are, statistically, highly improbable events, including but not limited to other diseases. Think of what happened when a single passenger was believed possibly to be carrying TB, and the enormous coverage given to quarantining him.

Yet, we are told, that in the best of cases, a little less than about 1 out of 10 Muslims openly admits to supporting, still, the mass murder of American and other Infidels during the World Trade Center attack. A little less than 1 out of 10. Allowing for the keen awareness by those resopnding to the poll (and one may assume that all those who refused to participate did so because they did not wish to admit openly to such support) undoubtedly had, that its results would be made known to Infidels, and keeping in mind the enormous effort, from Tariq Ramadan on up and down and sideways, to utter soothing words, to do whatever can be done to explain away Muslim behavior and Muslim statements, so as to keep Infidels from becoming too alarmed and then responding in ways inimicable to the interests of Muslims, surely the real figure is not 1 out of 10 but 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 out of 10.

But what does it mean, if for every 100 Muslim immigrants allowed to freely enter the Western lands, the lands of the infidels, not one out of a million (like that TB patient, like those cows stricken with Mad Cow disease), nor one out of a thousand, nor one out of a hundred, but rather one out of ten, or two out of ten, or five out of ten, can be intelligently assumed to support violent Jihad, or if not Jihad through such spectacular terrorist acts, then less attention-getting terrorist acts, such as those committed against India or Israel, that the world has mostly gotten used to.

Why do we have a different probability we accept, when it comes to life-threatening doctrines and murderous attitudes, then we do with a disease?

In both cases, what is probabilistically acceptable should be the same, or roughly the same. And since, to make matters still more dangerous, there is evidence that second and third generation Muslims become more, not less radical (especially, but not only, in Western Europe) then that is one more reason why we may conclude that the level of danger, to indigenous Infidels, from Muslim immigrants, is even higher than one might otherwise suspect.

Finally, even if not a single Muslim were to declare openly his support for the 9/11/2001 attacks, and for some reason we were to believe this, the next question has not been posed: do you support other means of furthering the goals of Jihad, the duty of Jihad, that is other instruments to make sure that all barriers to the spread of Islam, and then to the dominance of Islam, the necessary dominance of Islam, are removed?

Posted by: Hugh at February 27, 2008 2:55 PM

In Part 2 she continues questioning why through all of her many trials Allah has never helped her. She says again "Yet you remain silent." And "Yet you remain silent like the grave I long for."

Some God.

So, the primary theme of "Submission" is questioning the existence of Allah. Another important comment by the Muslim woman is: "My faith in you feels like self-betrayal."

Indeed.

Posted by: darcy at February 27, 2008 3:00 PM

I don't believe you. You're a liar.

After 9/11 all the 1.5 gazillion Muslims in the world told us that it was done by the Jooozzz, but in their own language they said it was a great victory for Islam.

When we have their regular bouts of Koran rage, pope rage, Teddy Bear rage or cartoon rage all the 2.5 gazillion Muslims are enraged and want to kill us.

Then there are another 3.5 gazillion Muslims who tell us that Islam will dominate, that we must submit to the 'RoP', that we can't possibly fight 4.5 gazillion Muslims and that our children will be Muslim. Add to that the 5.5 gazillion Muslims who want sharia law, now....

We haven't got a chance. We're cooked.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 27, 2008 3:03 PM

I love popular distillations of statistical findings. What in tarnation is "a sample equivalent to 90 percent of the world's Muslims"? I would've also liked some follow-up questions, such as "Who was responsible for the attacks of 2001 which you are condemning?" How many would say: the CIA, the Zionists, those Danish cartoonists?

Posted by: Karl Pov at February 27, 2008 3:03 PM

".........The survey, conducted by the Gallup polling agency over six years and three continents, seeks to dispel the belief held by some in the West that Islam itself is the driving force of radicalism.
It shows that the overwhelming majority of Muslims condemned the attacks against the United States on September 11, 2001 and other subsequent terrorist attacks, the authors of the study said in Washington............"

'Why do muslims hate us?'
Is it....
* because of our foreign policy?
* or because of our [un-ISLAMIC] culture and 'immodest' lifestyle?
* or because we don't bow down, and pray five times a day to the 'father of lies'?
* OR, is it because we EXIST, as a non-muslim community [i.e. because our mere existence as non-muslims, is an 'insult' to ISLAM] ?
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/troublewithislam2.html#Why_do_they_hate_us

But those who reject (Allah),- for them is destruction, and (Allah) will render their deeds astray (from their mark).
That is because they hate the Revelation of Allah; so He has made their deeds fruitless.
Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the End of those before them (who did evil)? Allah brought utter destruction on them, and similar (fates await) those who reject Allah.
That is because Allah is the Protector of those who believe, but *those who reject Allah have no protector*. [i.e. You can KILL the Kuffar who reject Allah's way!!! Its OK, because they are un-believers.]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html#047.008 - 011

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 3:05 PM

This just in from the Center for Disease Control.....

Posted by: Hugh at February 27, 2008 2:55 PM

Posted by: Shy Guy at February 27, 2008 3:09 PM

ISLAM is a criminal Mafia, masquerading as a religion.

O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.051

i.e. this text above, instructs 'muslims', .....'Those who take un-believers as friends are NOT muslims.'
They are *apostates* [non-muslims].

And the Koran instructs muslims, to take no apostates as friends. And when they oppose you [in Allah's way], kill them. [i.e. apostates, ex-muslims, are non-muslims!]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.088 & 89

This is ISLAM....
ISLAM is a 'criminal mafia' NOT a religion.
ISLAM's most 'devout' followers, are all encouraged to be murderers, criminals, thugs, liars.

The violence and hatred towards non-muslims who reject ISLAM, is the ISLAMIC 'creed', read the Koran, read the Hadith.

88888888888888888888888
Its not rocket science.
88888888888888888888888

*Mohammad* himself was a mass murderer.
The Jewish tribe of Banu Qureza *surrendered*, and as an exercise of ISLAMIC 'mercy', Muhammad [himself] put that community's 800 men to death.
[historic facts, from muslim texts. muslims are 'proud' of it.]

Read ISLAM's own texts. and 'holy' books.

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 3:09 PM

The defense in the Australian Terrorism Trial against Nacer Benbrika:

He said the secretly taped conversations between Benbrika, a deeply religious man, and the men reflected their frustrations at the treatment of "his people" in the Middle East.

The prosecutor has said Benbrika justified jihad in Australia with the Koran, but his lawyer said the Bible and Koran had similar teachings, citing Bible quotes like the "fanatical destruction of whole cities" and a "fanatical, vengeful God."

In reference to Benbrika's criticism of the United States and Australia, his lawyer asked the jury to consider the "evil" the United States had done.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080227/wl_nm/australia_security_trial_dc_1;_ylt=AqDvHrv8Fd8vSeV0XOmBwPgTv5UB

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 27, 2008 3:12 PM

Wiki....

Banu Qurayza

"......In 627 CE, the tribe was charged with treachery and collaboration with the invading armies during the Battle of the Trench and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[1][2] The Banu Qurayza surrendered and all the men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were beheaded, while all the women and children were enslaved."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

The Koran states...... that Muhammad is a wonderful example to all muslims.
To emulate Muhammad's life values and actions [regardless of the fact, that he was, in fact, a mass murderer.]

And it seems many, many, muslims in the world today follow this 'holy' admonition in the Koran.

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.021

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 3:15 PM

"The survey, ... seeks to dispel.."

I have serious problems with a survey that "seeks to dispel". This is a blatent admission that the survey was biased. They had an axe to grind, a theory to prove,... lo, and behold, ... they proved it!

This runs contrary to the results we have seen in other surveys that indicate even the so called "moderate" Moslems hold beliefs and world views similar to radical Islamists.

It also is contradicted by what we see around the world on a nearly daily basis. The riots and violence in Europe, UK, and Southeast Asia, etc, etc, etc.

Check out http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for an updated list of what the "vast majority of moderate Muslems" are up to on a daily basis.

Posted by: StephenDvd at February 27, 2008 3:18 PM

Better questions to ask Muslims in a poll:

1) Do you believe in the right and necessity for Muslims to defend Islam through qital (physical combat)?

2) List and describe exactly all the things that would justify "self-defense through qital".

3) Do you support Sharia Law?

4) Do you think Sharia Law is superior to Western laws (also ask for specific Western country if Muslim resides there)?

5) Do you think the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights is superior to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? (Questioner cites a few of the most glaring details by which the two differ and asks the question again with reference to these.)

6) Do you support the following provisions of Sharia Law (questioner lists 10 of the worst provisions of Sharia Law)?

7) Do you hope and desire that Sharia Law will come to dominate over the West and replace existing laws?

8) What methods and measures do you support to hasten the eventual domination of Sharia Law over the West? If Muslim says he supports none, ask him to describe how that eventual domination will concretely take place.

I think these questions would tend to make greater numbers of Muslim respondents answer honestly.

Posted by: cantor at February 27, 2008 3:25 PM

"The survey, conducted by the Gallup polling agency over six years and three continents, seeks to dispel the belief held by some in the West that Islam itself is the driving force of radicalism."

Well cats out of the bag. That's the problem with all these lefty PC arranged polls and surveys, they SEEK to prove something. In other words the end result is pre-determined, just make it so.

Posted by: Sounder at February 27, 2008 3:26 PM

Of course, the 1.2 billion "moderates" are themselves targets for the jihadists. At the present kill ratio for victims/bombers, it's an open question if they will run out of victims before they run out of bombers.

Posted by: ebonystone at February 27, 2008 3:35 PM

from the main story....

".........But only seven percent of the billion Muslims surveyed -- the radicals -- condoned the attacks on the United States in 2001, the poll showed.
*Moderate Muslims* interviewed for the poll condemned the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington because innocent lives were lost and civilians killed.........."

There are no 'moderate muslims'.
If a 'muslim' is moderate in his world view, he is an apostate - he is [deemed by real muslims to be], a NON-MUSLIM.

*By definition*, a muslim [who follows the dictates of his 'religion'] is a Jihadist.

All real muslim follows the example of Muhammad's life.
The same Muhammad, who was a mass murderer.

Yep, i guess muslims, are all, ......real muslims!

All muslims who emulate Muhammad, .........are liars, deceivers, violent thugs, murderers [emulating their great chief pirate].

And all of these personal values are 'sanctified', and highly praised, in their *death cult*.

"....Further, what some non-muslims call 'moderate' ISLAM, is only rank deception, 'moderate' ISLAM is a 'mythical' creature, perpetrated upon the Kuffar, by real muslims.
Pointedly, 'moderate' ISLAM [is an illusion, a 'vapour', which] seemingly flourishes inside non-muslim nations.
But [strangely] 'moderate' ISLAM appears to be an unwelcome, and unclean, 'beast' in all ISLAMIC states?
Why?"
http://members.dodo.com.au/~wtt626/troublewithislam1.html

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 3:46 PM

Only 91 million? I thought that by now it's already 91 billion.

Of lies there is no end.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at February 27, 2008 3:46 PM

from my last post.....

"......All muslims who emulate Muhammad, .........are liars, deceivers, violent thugs, murderers [emulating their great chief pirate]......"

Muhammad, a murderer? A deceiver?
Read the Hadith, it records this information about an assassination, *procured by the chief pirate*....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 3:52 PM

7% is hardly a 'tiny' minority. If anything, it is far greater than the 1% people were led to believe.

Posted by: Rogster at February 27, 2008 4:01 PM

MarisolJW,

He (Obama) can't seem to shake the stench* from his person, no matter how much (too much) one doth protest. Attempts to wash him clean, even when coming from such an eminent authority on Islam as Mr. Spencer, does not wash the whiff of the poison of Arabia from his persona.

Nor does his association with "Palestinian" causes and such non-friends of Israel as Zbigniew Brzezinski, Anthony Lake, Robert O. Malley and Susan Rice help make him appear as cleansed and guiltless.
--------------
*of Islam

Posted by: unicorns62000 at February 27, 2008 4:02 PM

Sheik yer mami

Sure, there are a lot of them but the numbers are actually their achilles heel, even as it seems to be their strength. They have to feed that bunch and I think you may have noticed that they don't spend a lot of their time working in the fields. Further..they are far from united. Their hatred for Jews and Christians is only rivaled by the hatred they have for each other. When things get worse..things will get better, if you follow me.
Have faith..hang in there.

Posted by: pismopal at February 27, 2008 4:11 PM

They should take a poll as to how many of us believe in the crud called, 'moderate muslims', or 'moderate islam' anymore.

I don't. I believe taqiyya is much more prevalent than 'moderate' muslims. And I also believe that our own are completely, insanely stupid as to what it is. I say 'insanely' because I think too many chose ignorance in spit of what happens around this globe concerning muslim on non-muslim violence.

Posted by: R_not at February 27, 2008 4:30 PM

Sheik
In reference to Benbrika's criticism of the United States and Australia, his lawyer asked the jury to consider the "evil" the United States had done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7PQw4J3ilo

Posted by: interestinconundrum at February 27, 2008 4:34 PM

"The survey, conducted by the Gallup polling agency over six years and three continents, seeks to dispel the belief held by some in the West that Islam itself is the driving force of radicalism."

So basically they had their answer, they just needed to collect some data and then conclude that the data supported their hypothesis. Highly scientific!

Posted by: mitch_b at February 27, 2008 4:39 PM

verse 005.032 “On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. “

It looks simple enough on the surface, but “taken out of context”. The real meaning is in the word choice:

1. “the whole people” is the Ummah
2. “slew a person” and “murder” is killing one, or more, of Allah's 'believers'
3. “spreading mischief” means hindering in any way the spread of Islam.

So what this verse really means is don’t interfere with Arab supremacist spread of Islam, you Children of Israel, or it will be bad for you. Allah’s messenger commands it. Don’t get in the way or you’re crucified, your fingers get cut off, your head chopped, your hands and feet cut off on alternate sides. Know who you are dealing with, oh Children of Israel, or we will get you. That is the real “in context” meaning of that superficially benign verse. Yep, this is their threat, know who you are dealing with…. Or else.

This opinion poll is a farce.

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at February 27, 2008 4:55 PM

Battle_of_Tours said....

"...........if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people......
It looks simple enough on the surface, but “taken out of context”. The real meaning is in the word choice:
1. “the whole people” is the **Ummah**......"

Precisely!!

Kill muslims = wrong.
Kill Kuffar who resist ISLAM / Allah = right, and encouraged.

Muslims, ......such deceitful people.
ISLAM a false 'religion', for a false people.

Muslims must never knowingly kill **another [devout] muslim** --- is the ISLAMIC intent.

"........If a man kills *a believer* intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.092 & 93 !

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 5:13 PM

ONLY 91 MILLION?

Well, just nineteen were able to kill thousands of people (an average of at least 157 innocents killed by each hijacker) ground US air travel for more than two days.

91 million divided by 19 = 4,789,473 (minimum attacks we can expect)?

Why is Islam's majority still SILENT?
Answer: they are in agreement with jihadists. A silent majority is an acquiescent majority. If they were so offended by the "hijackers of Islam" they would have done something long before now. They haven't. Case closed.

Posted by: PMK at February 27, 2008 5:22 PM

(posted in two different JW articles for your enjoyment- the more that read it the better)

If your logic is applied then every single Muslim is a violent, animal, without a grain of civilisation in his/her body, which you will deny ever having said, but you just did and you say it all the time.

This article needs to be corrected because it is a massive understatement to suggest only 91 million Muslims are jihadists, because the real figure is more closer 1.3 billion. Do you know why that is? Because they spend every single day of their lives (not all of them) fighting against their inner desires, and the whisperings of Satan to avoid true worship. It is one of your finest achievements to convince people jihad means 'holy war.' It is a sign of ignorance that you cannot even apply the correct meaning to something even when you acknowledge its true meaning, you still deny it.
'Don't listen to him he's an apologist.'

How do you define 'the war on terror? What is it called? Your president said it was a 'crusade' didn't he?

Hypocrisy in the extreme. You apply the wrong meaning to something, giving Muslims no chance in the first place.
Then do the same thing, call it by a different name, to make it seem acceptable.

Anything can be distorted. I can say Hitler, was a Christian, even though he was, I cannot refer to him as a Christian who read the bible- particularly the books of Matthew and John - to justify his actions against the Jews. I wouldn't do it anyway. But the point is, he's not a Christian in your eyes. Had a Muslim done the same thing, in your eyes, he's not an evil man, or a tyrant, he's a Muslim, before all else.

This is because to you jihad means 'holy war.' It means Muslims should bomb themselves, it means they should target civilians and woman and children, it means they should attack without being aggressed, it also means, they should emigrate to all corners of the world, to cause problems for those people, replace their laws with Sharia, disrespect them and their way of life.

There is a peaceful solution to all this and thats just leave their countries. If Bin Laden was the cause of 9/11, you would have captured him and killed him by now, but you haven't because you want to continue saying there are terrorists there. If it's the case that you have no evidence linking him with 9/11, then leave the country, whats the point of you being there.

Iraq is just the same; weapons inspectors couldn't find any weapons or any link with Al-Qaeda so leave their country.

Till then, of course they are going to be angry that you have taken over their country. I'm not justifying the things they do or the things your soldiers do, but to end it, all you have to do is leave their countries and let them decide.

To the people that committed the London, Madrid bombings, I don't care what you say they are not Muslim, they are just the same criminals as Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and Pinochet.

What have you got to attack a Muslim when I won't support the actions of a criminal who claims to be a Muslim, neither will I forget your hypocrisy, since the greed and lust for power of the West, is directly and indirectly involved in the suffering of people around the world?

Posted by: thesaracen at February 27, 2008 5:23 PM

in my last post.....

".......Muslims, ......such deceitful people.
ISLAM, a false 'religion', for a false people......"

Defining the muslim psyche, .......muslims are all KUFFAR.

Using *their own definition*, ALL MUSLIMS ARE KUFFAR.....

FROM THE WIKI SITE, AN EXPLANATION OF THE WORD 'KUFFAR'...
"...is an Arabic word meaning an unbeliever, a person who **hides**, **denies**, or **covers the truth**....an...infidel."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 5:29 PM

Why is Islam's majority still SILENT?

--PMK

IT JUST OPENED ITS MOUTH (FIGURATIVELY)--see comment by "thesaracen."

Posted by: unicorns62000 at February 27, 2008 5:32 PM

CORRECTION......

".....I am truly sorry that Dubya is such *TREACHEROUS* a dolt."

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 5:39 PM

I've been visiting a couple of atheist websites and I am appalled at the fixation on Christianity. They are convinced that Christians are the boogey men and Islam is just a foreign problem.

The next time any of you run into these people and they start repeating the abortion clinic violence clap-trap, send them to this site:

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/history_extreme.asp

Then ask them what violence?

Posted by: Pelayo at February 27, 2008 5:47 PM

Is thesaracen still worshiping Allah? I thought he would have out grown that by now.

Posted by: duh_swami at February 27, 2008 5:53 PM

Pelayo said....

".....The next time any of you run into these people and they start repeating the abortion clinic violence clap-trap, send them to this site:......"

As far as i could see, 13 incidents listed since 2001.

Compared to 10,644 ISLAMIC terror incidents since 9/11, all *causing deaths*.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Good one Pelayo.

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 5:58 PM

"A billion Muslims should be the ones that we look to, to understand what they believe, rather than a vocal minority," she told AFP.
-----------------------------------------------
Actions speak a lot louder than words. If the moderate muslims aren't doing or saying anything to combat radicalism, then I guess we can understand what those moderates believe, can't we.

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at February 27, 2008 6:43 PM

thes - my new nickname for you is Ostrich Man:

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1673824/2/istockphoto_1673824_hiding_ostrich_man.jpg

Posted by: champ at February 27, 2008 6:44 PM

"A billion Muslims should be the ones that we look to, to understand what they believe, rather than a vocal minority," she told AFP.
-----------------------------------------------
Here's another thing: 91 million jihadist is quite a large number. It makes no difference what the majority believe, if the 91 million are looking to kill as many "infidels" as they can.

If each of those 91 million kill one "infidel", then that means that 91 million innocent people will be killed by these nut jobs. That's "a whole lot of genocide going on", and it's probably a conservative estimate.

After all, the nut jobs are training their children to do the same, and they're having as many babies as possible.

In conclusion, the religion that 91 million people adhere to is a terrorist mafia religion for those 91 million people, and so, yes, we should definitely be concerned about the dangers of Islam.

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at February 27, 2008 6:48 PM

Champ said....

.....something about Ostriches???

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4932/88095000sb1.jpg

pity the image is not a lil larger.

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 6:51 PM

PU! ....lol

Posted by: champ at February 27, 2008 6:54 PM

Finally, a solid number for Jack Bauer's Secret Weapon to get to work on.

Posted by: Bosch Fawstin at February 27, 2008 7:03 PM

The figure of 91 Million isn't what bothers me. It's the fact that there's a spectrum of islamic activists who may not be prepared to be violent themselves but are all too willing to place themselves into a position of influence whereby they can assist violent muslims to accomplish their goal.

Just look at the DoD situation.

Posted by: Abu_Lahab at February 27, 2008 7:15 PM

LOL you people are strange. I won't be enticed into exchanging childish remarks. Ezekiel no need for hostility, because you wouldn't be laughing if I do it to you. You'd only bring it out the anti-semitic card.

How come Christians and Jews claim to share a bond, this friendship, when the Jews deny Jesus?

I've heard the term 'Judeo-Christian values' many times, but both sides claim to have religious superiority over the other.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ Ezekiel?

And if not, why not?

Posted by: thesaracen at February 27, 2008 7:16 PM

"The radicals are better educated, have better jobs, and are more hopeful with regard to the future than mainstream Muslims," John Esposito

Wow! Remember, he gets paid to say such earth shattering stuff. This is a top notch quote!

Esposito Math: 1+1 = -3, or it could be 1+1 = 2 1/2

It all depends on who he is enlightening. Bizarre...

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at February 27, 2008 7:17 PM

Mark Twain said it best (I think it was him)...

"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Do I smell Taqiyya cooking?

"Kuffirs of the world, Unite!"
"Islam, abusing women and children since 622AD"

Posted by: OregonJake at February 27, 2008 7:18 PM

To The Saracen:

I'm sure you're a decent fellow, from your posts, without ill will for anyone, nor do you hate the 'infidels', and you probably feel we are unfair in our criticism of your faith. But do not take any of this personally. It is not you as a person that worries writers on this board, if I may say this, but what the history of your faith had come to represent in its more violent and belligerent aspects, something you have denied, so naturally you get flack for it. Here is how we see it, if I may, and why we feel you are laboring under such a tremendous burden as a believer in Islam, not as a faith of a personal belief in Allah, but as a politicized belief system promoted by your scholars and clerics who advocate Sharia law, and Islamic supremacy over man-made laws for the whole world. Here are the obstacles to peace posed by Islam:

1. Submission to your messenger's Allah means total surrender, to believe entirely on faith, which means also suspending reason, so all you may do is obey without questioning.

2. Obedience without questioning means you are forbidden, by the logic of your faith, from using your reason in any form of doubt as to what your prophet Mohammad had said to you in the uncreated word of Allah.

3. If you doubt, or use your reason, it is the work of the devil trying to sway you from a pure faith in your messenger's Allah, so must be resisted with all your might, which in part means internal Jihad resistance.

4. Anyone criticizing or in any way finding fault in your faith is therefore obviously responding to the devil's taunts to doubt the faith, so must be resisted with another external Jihad, against the infidels who question your faith, or Mohammad, or Allah's uncreated word.

5. Total submission as a true slave of Allah is the highest good, while questioning the faith or doubting anything written in the uncreated word of Allah is the gravest evil and must be resisted with all your strength.

6. Anytime someone not of the faith says anything against Islam, he or she must be resisted by the logic of all of the above.

Now, Saracen, do I have you figured out pretty well here? Is this why you feel compelled to keep coming back to this board, to set us straight because we are questioning, even ridiculing your faith, so it must be resisted with a verbal Jihad? Even if you are the nicest Muslim on Earth, is this not an obligation of yours to resist such criticisms? So when a teddy bear is named after the prophet, or cartoons drawn, or the Pope says something against the faith, is it not your duty to correct it? And if this takes violent demonstrations, all in a good cause for Allah and his messenger, is this not the highest good you can do as proof of your faith? You are duty bound to resist such mischief by the infidels who would doubt and question, and their use of devil inspired reason, to correct them, to show them how wrong they are. Why is this so important to you, and your religion? The answer is so simple that is defies logic to not see it: You must resist any temptation by the devil from swaying you away from a total belief without question of your messenger's uncreated word of your god Allah. Is this not the real reason you come here over and over again, even if you had said you posted your last?

You are not a bad fellow, of this I am quite sure, and you mean well. But can you see what terrible burden you carry in your obligation to obey in submission without questioning, or the use of reason which is from the devil, to preserve your faith? Islam puts this 'check' on you, that you must obey. And if there is anything that seems wrong with the faith, or the behaviors of Islam's followers, then it must be from external causes, like those Joows conspiracies, or evil Amerika, or Bush and company, all evil inspired by the devil? Is this not so? And to further check on your true compliance with your messenger's uncreated word of Allah, your are further checked by the Hadiths. And if that all still doesn't work to keep you in check, then there is the final 'death for apostasy' check mate, if you failed in your total submission to Allah. Do I have that right so far?

So where does that leave us who are not obliged to obey in full submission to your god, but have the right to question, to reason, to seek the God of the Universe in our personal beliefs, or atheistic nonbeliefs, or freedoms to exist as free beings, not agents of the devils, but as light filled beings of love, of compassion, and the use of our reason and logic, to know God better than you? So why do you feel you must correct us in our thinking, or that Robert and Hugh and all of us are evil people who put down your religion? We are a free people, unbowed before all the checks of submission to which you are obliged to bow in your obedience to your messenger's Allah, and we have the right as free men and women to stand tall and upright as human beings; not like you who have all those rights denied: the right to question and use reason. Is this it, Saracen, why you keep coming back, like a child outside a candy store, who is not allowed to have joy in life, but must fear hell in every moment of their waking being? Is that why? Envy or just curiosity? Either way, you are welcome. Life is beautiful.

If this is so, then read and learn. We who are the free do not bow down in submission to some 7th century Arabian desert dweller's idea of what is the uncreated word of Allah. We are free to stand tall and proud of our freedoms, and our heritage of freedom as human beings filled with love and compassion for all human beings, regardless of race or gender, and even for those whose yoke of submission weighs heavy on their necks. We are not against you, since you are probably a decent fellow. But we do disagree with your totally unacceptable lack of freedom, or lack of reason, or your slavery to Allah in total submission. Still, you will read this and wonder why is this a bad thing, it should be a good thing, to be in total submission to Allah in every breath you take. That we cannot help you with, until you unlock yourself from slavery, which only you can do.

Do not make the mistake to think that because we can think, and reason and question, that we are agents of the devil. Rather, it appears to us the other way around, that those who commit murder in the name of your faith are those agents of evil, 1400 years of evil, and we are duty bound to resist them with every breath we take. I hope you will learn to understand this. Your Jihad is nothing next to ours, and we will prove far more formidable than you can imagine, because we can think. And our 'Jihad' had not yet begun.

As salaam aleikum, with a glass of wine ;)

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at February 27, 2008 7:23 PM

I just deleted a number of comments with a gratuitous number of scripture passages and some proselytizing.

This is a non-sectarian site. Please refrain from both of those.

And don't feed the trolls.

Posted by: MarisolJW at February 27, 2008 7:36 PM

thesaracen said....

> LOL you people are strange. I won't be enticed into exchanging childish remarks. Ezekiel no need for hostility, because you wouldn't be laughing if I do it to you. You'd only bring it out the anti-semitic card.

I'm not Jewish.

> How come Christians and Jews claim to share a bond, this friendship, when the Jews deny Jesus?

Jesus was a Jew.
He *is* the Jewish messiah.

Jesus Christ, the Hebrew *atonement sacrifice*.

Exodus 12:5
Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Leviticus 16:15
¶Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:
16 And he shall make an atonement for the holy place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions in all their sins: and so shall he do for the tabernacle of the congregation, that remaineth among them in the midst of their uncleanness.

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Why do you think the bible uses these [following] specific words thesaracen ?...

Matthew 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. [See, jews redeemed!!!! They share in the messiahs blood. :) ]

Isaiah 43:1
¶But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for *I have redeemed thee*, I have called thee by thy name; *thou art mine*.

Israel are a 'chosen', 'special' people.

Physical Israel are redeemed by God.
The children of Israel were chosen [as a special people among mankind] to show Gods [spiritual] redemption plan.
When Jesus [the Jewish messiah] 'arrived', the Jews didn't 'get it', they were blind to the TRUTH of who he was.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

But all Israel are redeemed.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: *but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes*.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Israel are beloved of their God, their spiritual father [the spiritual father of ALL mankind].

Physical Israel made a covenant with God.
later, Israel sinned against God's covenant.
Israel were rebuked, *and were punished* in the dispersion among the nations [spiritual debt paid].

And Israel will share in the atonement sacrifice of Jesus, the *Jewish* messiah.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: *and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced*, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 13:1 ¶In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

Joel 2:28
¶And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that *whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD* shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

> I've heard the term 'Judeo-Christian values' many times, but both sides claim to have religious superiority over the other.

> Do you believe in Jesus Christ Ezekiel?

Yes.

> And if not, why not?

Again, yes.

Today, muslim hatred of the brothers, is a sin against God.
Muslims must repent, or face Gods wrath that is coming, upon all who do wickedness in this earth [in this flesh, made of the earth].

thesaracen you should read the Bible.
If you did you would realise how much of what is happening today, parallels endtime Jewish prophecy.
Read Isaiah.

Enough said

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 7:58 PM

How come Christians and Jews claim to share a bond even though Jews deny Christ?
paraphrase from above

Where do I begin? By Christian I know you mean someone born in the west because to a muslim, Hitler was a Christian. muslims don't get the picture of what is a Jew or a Christian but they never will so let me proceed. I think the bond has something to do with the fact that Israel and the west don't do violence to their neighbors in the name of religion. Israel and the west don't murder people because of their belief or disbelief in any form of religion. When the people of certain nations are hated and murdered and persecuted because the religious fanatics of islamic nations feel that their god compels them to do so...well..yes, there can be a bond there. In fact, the muslim habit of fleeing to a host nation (dumb enough to allow it) and then turning on that host nation by plotting the murder of their fellow non muslim citizens (the ones who pay the welfare checks), has caused many world wide to see what islam actually is. The bond is getting tighter and more universal. More and more westerners are becoming educated to the aims of islam and someday the whole non islamic world will turn into the enemy of your worst nightmares. This has nothing to do with who believes in Christ or no. This has to do with the rejection of an evil, violent and intolerant theocracy that has to be defeated utterly and decidedly for all time. There is no choice.

Posted by: pismopal at February 27, 2008 8:00 PM

Ezekiel--

I'm going to assume you may not have seen my comment at 7:36pm. Please read it.

Posted by: MarisolJW at February 27, 2008 8:00 PM

MarisolJW said......

I just deleted a number of comments with a gratuitous number of scripture passages and some proselytizing.

This is a non-sectarian site. Please refrain from both of those.

And don't feed the trolls.

MarisolJW, question......

How come i can freely quote **ISLAMIC** scripture on JW......
....but i am not allowed to quote Christian scripture....

....in responding to ISLAMIC lies, in answering people like the thesaracen ?

Your choice, but if i can't speak to the issues involving ISLAM **fully** ,
.....what is the point of me being here???

Perhaps its better if i just stop posting all together.

Result for ppl like the thesaracen......

Muslims, 1
Non-muslims, 0

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 8:05 PM

How come i can freely quote **ISLAMIC** scripture on JW..........but i am not allowed to quote Christian scripture....

Because this site is about the jihadist threat, its motivations, goals, and its basis in Islamic texts and teachings-- something which so many, including "counterterror" analysts, often will not deal with.

And there's a difference in quoting scripture to make a relevant textual comparison (see the "Jesus v. Muhammad" sidebars in The Politically Incorrect Guide) or refute claims Muslim apologists (or the just plain ignorant) make about certain biblical passages, and proselytizing.

Posted by: MarisolJW at February 27, 2008 8:13 PM

One can quote Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira -- or allow Muslim posters to do so -- in the right spirit. That right spirit is to note what is contained in those texts or, in the case of the carefully bowdlerized versions put up by Muslim apologists, what is being omitted, and what is being presented in misleading fashion. The site is not one where proselytizing, whether Christian, Jewish, Hindu or other non-Muslim, should take place. What is being held up for inspection, analysis, and discussion are the texts, tenets, attitudes, atmospherics of Islam. The wonderfulness of another faith is not, here, the point.

Posted by: Hugh at February 27, 2008 8:21 PM

Hugh.....

OK

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 8:25 PM

Would it be suprising that even during WWII, the Nazis had Arab support. Here is a URL about a conversation during that era.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mufti2.html

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at February 27, 2008 8:38 PM

There is a peaceful solution to all this and thats just leave their countries.

Posted by: thesaracen at February 27, 2008 5:23 PM

More witless, inaccurate banter from 'thesaracen', this offering a bit more weepy, however.

Apparently, 'thesaracen' knows as much about his brethren than the masses in the West do...nothing.

Leaving Iraq is a peaceful solution? It seems that 'thesaracen' hasn't opened a newspaper or turned on the TV in a few years. The only other explanation is that saracen's definition of "peace" is consistent with many of his co-religionists...endless strife, chaos and bloodshed. Islamists don't even need any infidels around to whip up the fury. They are more than capable, alone.

Posted by: awake at February 27, 2008 8:44 PM

"The survey, conducted by the Gallup polling agency over six years and three continents, seeks to dispel the belief held by some in the West that Islam itself is the driving force of radicalism."

If that was the aim, then it failed. The more that I learn about Islam, as a member of the "some", the more persuaded I am that Islam itself is the driving force of radicalism.

Gallup spent a lot of time and money to discover the obvious, no?

Posted by: Lex at February 27, 2008 9:15 PM

darcy:

al-lah is an idol, the origins of which are mesolpotamian. al-lah's alternate name is of course baal.

That is the extent to which al-lah exists (in the minds of very backward, primitive people).

Posted by: pythagoras at February 27, 2008 9:33 PM

Maybe it's because I've never studied statistics, but I fail to see how "the poll, based on more than 50,000 interviews" two paragraphs later becomes "the billion Muslims surveyed". Even if we ignore the inherent bias of a study which seeks to prove something, and also the unsoundness of such a survey as touched upon by Hugh, how are we to consider an apparent sample size of ~0.004% accurate or representative, let alone "a sample equivalent to 90 percent of the world's Muslims"? That's some truly olympian extrapolation.

Posted by: crosseyedcyclops at February 27, 2008 9:33 PM

1.3 billion Muslims? Wasn't it 1.2 billion 6 months ago? Can anyone even verify this data?

Any study involving John Esposito is an outright lie.

John,
Recite the shahada and be done with it.

Posted by: PRCalDude at February 27, 2008 9:40 PM

crosseyedcyclops,

It's a Carl Sagan-esque "billions and billions" kind of extrapolation, ya know?

Luv your name!

Posted by: Lex at February 27, 2008 9:48 PM

Observations to prod thinking;
1) Why does the article give percentages (low 7%) instead of the 91,000,000 radical muslims calculated by the honorable ( I mean that literally!) Robert Spencer? My humble opinion..the same reason a car salesman tells you that it's only a few dollars more per month to get the extra options. It's a sales job..question..why are we getting a 'sales job'? Who's behind it ? What are their motives?
Hugh: Your closing comments about renouncing all forms of jihad ( soft, medium or hard boiled) and imposing Sharia on us infidels brings to mind another question. Why in the 1950's did immigrants to the USA have to swear that they had never been or were not a member of the Communist party? Why did they have to pledge loyalty to this great nation? Why is that standard not applied now?
Marisol: I respect your monitoring the message board to prevent proselytizing. Even though I am a Christian and enjoy seeing it touted instead of denigrated, there is a time and place. What a world it would be if everyone thought that way!

Posted by: Americantothecore at February 27, 2008 9:54 PM

Ezekiel
if your not Jewish then the question doesn't really apply to you. Had you been a Jew, you would not have said he is the messiah. Basically the Jews would disagree with you on Jesus. So since I can't discuss the topic let's leave it at that.

On this topic, maybe your forgetting that you have illegally gone into Iraq? Like I said, the Iraqi's are mightily pissed off with you. Just leave their country and you will have no reason to worry about terrorism.
Will someone come forward and tell me why Bush can't see this obvious solution, which will end this bloodshed?

91 million jihadists- what is jihad is my question to you?

Posted by: thesaracen at February 27, 2008 9:57 PM

It seems apparent that islam itself is the enemy.

Can we reach out to the unfortunates born into this faith and ideology and still reject islam ?

If we are to save ourselves, there isn't really much choice.

We might have to.

The faith is at best a sham, producing either empty all over the football field smiling types like the empty O, or raving fanatics like Zawahiri.

Does it have a religious leader of widely accepted stature who is admirable ? Is Farrakan admirable ? Are the Mullahs admirable ?

Posted by: dgene at February 27, 2008 9:58 PM

thesaracen said....

".....91 million jihadists- what is jihad is my question to you?....."

My question to you thesaracen....

Why do 'muslims' accept the prophet hood of Muhammad, when the whole of ISLAM is based, is built upon, the the words [and i will say this again, the words] which passed through the lips of *one* man.

To believe in ISLAM, you are compelled to accept as true, the utterances of ONE single man, a self professed warlord, a murderer, a pirate, a brigand, a **deceiver**, a thief.

ISLAM in its entirety, is based upon the utterances of *one* man, Muhammad.

The cult of ISLAM is a false 'religion', ISLAM is entirely an edifice of falsehood and lies.

i.e. All of the obvious errors in the Koran....

example1, calling Jesus, 'Jesus Christ' ['Christ' means messiah], this wording is in the Koran.

example2, refering to, identifying, Mary [Miriam], the sister of Aaron [and Moses], as the mother of, ...Jesus.
Koran 19:27-34
Falshood upon falsehood, that is ISLAM.
THE KORAN...
WHAT UTTER, UTTER, UTTER, UTTER, UTTER, ....'INERRANT', RUBBISH!

Don't muslims read the Koran in their own language???

Or do muslims just recite the Koran, parrot fashion, in Arabic [not their native language].
I believe that his is what happens?

Wasn't Muhammad just a warlord / deceiver?

What proof is there of his profit hood?

Muhammad, a murderer? A deceiver?
The Hadith as a record says this....
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 10:19 PM

At 91 million, all they have to do is ask for mass political asylum, build one suicide vest each, and take out 4 Americans per jihadi, and they win.

I guess they're waiting for Obama to win before they apply.

Posted by: profitsbeard at February 27, 2008 10:21 PM

CORRECTION

".....What proof is there of his profit hood?....."

......er, profit hood.
:)))

I know Muhammad got his 1/5 of all the war booty.
....so it was profit-able.

What proof is there of his PROPHET HOOD?

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 10:25 PM

Thanks Lex. I'm quite fond of it too. Inspires an image of supreme, almost constipated focus. >=)

Billions upon billions notwithstanding, I think Sagan would be in awe of these guys. Applying their numbers elsewhere, it's like asking Roger Clemens' foot if it has ever used steroids, then claiming based on the answer that none of the 700 active Major League Baseball players have ever used steroids.

Posted by: crosseyedcyclops at February 27, 2008 10:35 PM

Like I said, the Iraqi's are mightily pissed off with you. Just leave their country and you will have no reason to worry about terrorism.

Posted by: thesaracen at February 27, 2008 9:57 PM

All of them are pissed off, even the remnants of the slaughtered Kurds under Hussein's regime? Or maybe you think that after Saddam invaded Kuwait and was rightfully rebuffed by UN driven, US lead, coalition forces, with subsequent sanctions and resolutions of which he violated no fewer than 17 times, that he and his regime had no rimpetus to comply with?

Leave Iraq and poof!, Islamic terrorism disappears? Well I could agree with that 'thesaracen' if and only if it is logical to ignore the chronology of history. Please, refresh my memory saracen. What Islamic country was the US occupying right before 9/11?

Posted by: awake at February 27, 2008 10:36 PM

"A billion Muslims should be the ones that we look to, to understand what they believe, rather than a vocal minority," she told AFP.

Multitudes of these are illiterate, and can't read or write in any language, so where do they get 'what they believe'. Bingo!!! From the Imams of course.
Friday evening sermon, bought to you by the snarling, west, and infidel hating, Imam.
He will tell them what Allah wants them to do, and how to go about it. Why ask a few billion muslims what they believe, when we can ask a few thousand Imams. We kind of know what they believe, because they tell us all the time, often following up with deeds. The vocal minority are the Imams, and their source material is what?? The Wiccan Book of The dead? Nope, the wicked book of Allah, co-authored by his chief scribe and henchman, Mohammad.
As nearly everyone who is anyone knows, muslims are not encouraged to look too deeply into things best left to scholarly Imams, like ahadith.
Thanks to the internet, many 'are' looking into it, and many of those are leaving Islam. So looking to what the billions believe, is the same as looking at what the Imams believe...Mirror images...

Posted by: duh_swami at February 27, 2008 10:42 PM

Ezekiel2012
Christians do not talk like that. You are a complete fake. They do not speak this blasphemy.

Since you believe that the Qu'ran is a lie. Tell me what is the true Christian believer test (Mark(16:17-18) and what does it involve? I already know it does not only apply to the disciples and so on,it applies to every Christian.

I'm gonna retire for the night, but by tomorrow if you have a shred of credibility, you will have answered my question?

Posted by: thesaracen at February 27, 2008 10:43 PM

In the 'inerrant' Koran...

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be *Christ Jesus*, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.045

And.....

"O sister of Aaron!...." mother of 'prophet Jesus'
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/019.qmt.html#019.027 - 34

Not really so inerrant is it?

Don't any muslims actually read the Koran?

Or do they let their clerics interpret all things for them?
.......even the errors?

So that these errors wont hurt the ears of silly muslims?

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 10:43 PM

A loooong time ago when my hair had not yet turned grey, the American voters lashed out against the Republicans and elected a Democrat president. A good ole boy from Georgia.

The only difference between that good ole boy and Obama may only be the color of their skin.

Posted by: Pelayo at February 27, 2008 10:46 PM

To Ezekiel and all other readers,

Sorry to interrupt your "feeding the trolls", but I have recommended several times this book by Craig Winn, author of "Prophet of Doom".

http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam

You can read the book on-line or download it as a *.pdf file. It's about 1000 pages, but the file size is quite compact. Thus you can read at your leisure.

But do read it! Then when you're done with that, be sure to check out his synopsis of the Quran:

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/POD_Quran.Islam

This reference is "must download and save" file. For future reference to the "authority" and veracity of the Quran.

To my knowledge, our friend, TheSaracen, has not yet bothered to read either.

I did.

Posted by: boneshack at February 27, 2008 10:55 PM

thesaracen said......

"......Christians do not talk like that. You are a complete fake. They do not speak this blasphemy........"

What 'blasphemy'?

The TRUTH you mean?
That Muhammad was a mass murderer, and a fake prophet?
Why do you think that TRUTH blasphemy?

Murder most foul......
Banu Qurayza

"......In 627 CE, the tribe was charged with treachery and collaboration with the invading armies during the Battle of the Trench and besieged by the Muslims commanded by Muhammad.[1][2] The Banu Qurayza surrendered and all the men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were beheaded, while all the women and children were enslaved."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

Regards the question.....
".....Tell me what is the true Christian believer test (Mark(16:17-18) and what does it involve?....."

.......I could *easily* answer this thesaracen .
But i am not allowed to [quote Christian scripture here].

But that doesn't have to stop you replying to *my* question.

If you can?

And giving proof of why you believe in Muhammad's prophet hood.

Another question thesaracen, do you worship the God of Israel?
Did Moses worship the God of Israel?

Why don't muslims????

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 10:59 PM

I know Muhammad got his 1/5 of all the war booty.
....so it was profit-able.
What proof is there of his PROPHET HOOD?
Posted by: Ezekiel2012

The proof was in the pudding, a camel ate that in the year 635. Allah and Mohammad got 1/5th of the loot. It was never disclosed, that I know of, just how Allah split it with Mohammad. Nor is it stated what Allah did with his share. I suspect he bought building materials, to build more rooms on the Paradise Hotel and Brothel. While there is some evidence that Mohammad made a few donations to the poor and needy, I don't think it is recorded that Allah ever donated anything, Gabriel either.
Not big spenders, or overly generous, either one of them. They totally punked out at Mohammad's death. Didn't even bother to show up. And after all he did for them... :)

Posted by: duh_swami at February 27, 2008 11:01 PM

boneshack said....

"....Sorry to interrupt your "feeding the trolls", but I have recommended several times this book by Craig Winn, author of "Prophet of Doom"....."

Feeding the trolls.
:)))

boneshack, POD, i'm familiar with the online version, and Winn's site [though have not been there in > 12 months now].
An interesting read.

Good info on his site too.

Posted by: Ezekiel2012 at February 27, 2008 11:15 PM

thesaracen: To the people that committed the London, Madrid bombings, I don't care what you say they are not Muslim, they are just the same criminals as Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and Pinochet.

HMM, but 'they' say they are muslims. Who should we believe, you or them?
I don't think it is within your purview to decide who is a muslim and who is not. Unless you are accusing them of apostasy, in which case, it is your duty to kill them.

Sorry Allah knocked you out and you had to go to bed. Protect yourself from Iblis while you sleep, put cotton up your nose and in your ears. That will keep him out...Maybe...

Posted by: duh_swami at February 27, 2008 11:19 PM

Theserasen: To the people that committed the London, Madrid bombings, I don't care what you say they are not Muslim, they are just the same criminals as Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and Pinochet.

HMM, but 'they' say they are muslims. Who should we believe, you or them?
I don't think it is within your purview to decide who is a muslim and who is not. Unless you are accusing them of apostasy, in which case, it is your duty to kill them.

Sorry Allah knocked you out and you had to go to bed. Protect yourself from Iblis while you sleep, put cotton up your nose and in your ears. That will keep him out...

Posted by: duh_swami at February 27, 2008 11:19 PM

The analogy that comes to my mind is a steaming pile of dung (Islam). A steaming pile of dung stinks (Jihad). You can add ventilation (policemen), or spray flowery scents on the dung (jizya) to temporarily reduce the stench.

But there is no way to keep a steaming pile of dung from stinking. It just does.

Posted by: pez at February 27, 2008 11:24 PM

We should ask our own leaders why they continue to tell us not to condemn Islam, and instead prop up new Islamist nations in the Balkans, create mock-democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan without using the U.S. Constitution as the model and why they import more Muslims than ever before into Europe and the United States, Australia, Ireland, Iceland and every other nation on Earth.

Yes, I'd like to do that.

Trouble is, I'm beginning to know the answers to my own questions and you aren't going to like to hear them.

More on that on another day...

Posted by: Foehammer at February 27, 2008 11:29 PM

I have a phrase rattling around in my head that I heard about statistics that I thought would fit this thread, but I can't for the life of me remember. Maybe someone will remember it.

What I do remember is that statistics are almost meaningless and can easily be made to say or prove or show just about anything. As others have noted the wording of the article gives away the motive for the survey ie. "We know what is true lets ask a few questions to get the result." That is way the questions are all important.

I am not a statistician but I would venture to say that if you don't have ten carefully worded questions you will get back misleading results and the more questions the less misleading the results. Say ten or twenty or thirty well worded questions. And as one poster noted sampling only 0.004% of the population is fraught with more error. On top of that the culture of Islam is so different, we are usually talking past one another. Not counting 'taqiyya' which is almost away of life for them.

The bottom line, as one of the first posters said, "That's a lot of hooey."

PS thesaracen, Jesus rose from the dead. Were is Mohammad?

Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at February 27, 2008 11:30 PM

First of all, with everyone talking about Taqiyyah: In Shi'a Islam, Taqiyyah means to conceal one's faith and/or beliefs when one's life is in danger. Most Sunnis reject Taqiyyah altogether. Taqiyya does not constitute a part of either the Shi'a Roots or Branches of Religion, in the same manner as, for example, the Hijab rules do not. The practice was a method of self-preservation for the Shi'as who historically were the minority and severely persecuted and oppressed by Sunni Muslims. Shi'as say that Sunnis would sometimes force them to curse the House of Ali - believing that no devout Shi'a could commit such an act. Ayatollah Sistani, a 21st century Shi'a Islamic scholar states:

1) Taqiyah is done for safety reasons. For example, a person fears that he might be killed or harmed, if he does not observe Taqiyah. In this case, it is obligatory to observe Taqiyah.
2) Reconciliatory Taqiyah. This type of Taqiyah is done when a person intends to reconcile with the other side or when he intends to soften their hearts. This kind of Taqiyah is permissible but not obligatory.
3) Sometimes, Taqiyah may cause a more important obligation to be lost or missed, if so it is forbidden. For example, when I know that silence would cause oppression and infidelity to spread and will make people go astray, in such a situation it is not permissible to be silent and to dissimulate.
4) Sometimes, Taqiyah may lead to the death of an innocent person. If so, it is not permissible. It is therefore haram (forbidden) to kill another person to save your own life.

And by the way, Jihad is only permissible in self defense or when the an attack on the Islamic State is imminent:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those against those who fight you, but do not transgress, for Allah loves not the transgressor. Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers." (Sura Al-Baqarah (2):190-193)

Fighting in defense is considered obligatory upon Muslims, according to the Qur'an. The Qur'an, however, says that should enemy hostile behavior cease, then the reason for engaging such enemy also lapses. The Hanafi school of thought holds that war can only be launched against a state that had resorted to armed conflict against the Muslims. War, according to the Hanafis, can't simply be made because a state was not Islamic. Muhammad ibn Idris ash-Shafi`i, founder of the Shafi'i school of thought, was the first to permit offensive jihad (200 years after Muhammad). He limited this warfare against pagan Arabs only, not permitting it against non-Arab non-Muslims. Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, a well-known Pakistani Islamic scholar, exegete, and educationist, states that after Muhammad and his companions, there is no concept in Islam (until Shafi'i) obliging Muslims to wage war for propagation or implementation of Islam. The only valid basis for military jihad is to end oppression when all other measures have failed. Islam completely prohibits the killing of those who have not participated in war. Commentators of the Quran agree that Muslims should always be willing and ready to negotiate peace with the other party without any hesitation. According to Maududi, Islam does not permit Muslims to reject peace and continue bloodshed.

By the way, regarding suicide bombing: The Oxford-based Malayist jurist, Shaykh Muhammad Afifi al-Akiti, issued his landmark fatwa on suicide bombing titled 'Defending the Transgressed, by Censuring the Reckless against the Killing of Civilians'. Also, one of Shia Islam's highest ranking marja clerics, Ayatollah al-Udhma Yousof al-Sanei also decreed a fatwa against suicide bombing, declaring it as a "terrorist act" There are many scholastic refutations of suicide bombings. Ihsanic Intelligence, an Islamic think-tank, published their 2-year study into suicide bombings, titled 'The Hijacked Caravan', which concluded that, "The technique of suicide bombing is anathema, antithetical and abhorrent to Islam. It is considered forbidden... a reprehensible innovation in the Islamic ... an enormity of sin combining suicide and murder and theologically an act which has consequences of eternal damnation." Present Muslim sentiments are almost certainly motivated by political reasons (ie occupation of Palestine by Israel, Arab media gives a LOT of sympathy to Palestinians). Anti-Semitism and extremism in the Islamic world is a relatively new phenomenal. People forget that antisemitism was extremely common in the Christian world right up to the end of WWII. In 2006, Imam Khaleel Mohammed (yes, he’s an Imam), an associate professor of Religion at San Diego State University said that “95% of contemporary Muslims are exposed to anti-Semitic teachings, beginning between the ages of 5 and 8. And we know that things learned at this stage of life become ingrained, almost to the point of being in one's DNA.” In a 2004 interview, Professor Khaleel created quite a bit of controversy in the Islamic community when he said that Qur’an 5:21 says that Israel belongs to the Jews: “(Moses said): 'O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers.” See "Von den Jüden und iren Lügen" (On the Jews and Their Lies) by Martin Luther. . We can interpret the anti-Semitism in the Islamic World as another development that will end sooner or later. In his "World without Islam" essay, Graham Fuller, former vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council at the CIA and a professor of history at Simon Fraser University, analyzed the “internal dynamics of the region without religion” and- realized that a Middle East without Islam would still be “complex and conflicted.”

Posted by: Comment at February 27, 2008 11:46 PM

"Behold