The most interesting part of this article in the Guardian for me is the comment section. Most instructive to read the Quran-quoting comments posted by Muslims.

The Guardian piece heaps praise on moderate muslims, but refers to Geert Wilders' statement that "there is no moderate Islam" early in the article. The author fails to even dip his toe into the soup of realization that the existence of a moderate muslim does not prove a moderate islam any more than an abortion-clinic bombing baptist proves a violent Christianity.

Posted by: cumulusnine at March 5, 2008 1:01 PM

Willful ignornace on the part of the Guardian author.

Posted by: MP at March 5, 2008 1:10 PM

Moderation and extemism are whatever their definers say they are. Islam defines them one way and the rest of the world defines them another way, and ne'er the twain shall meet. It's time we accepted that there can never be a common dictionary definition. What we see as murder they see as self-defense. What we see as self-defense they see as an attack on Islam.
Wouldn't it be nice if both sides could just go their separate ways?

Posted by: PMK at March 5, 2008 1:11 PM

"What we see as murder they see as self-defense. What we see as self-defense they see as an attack on Islam."

Actually, we have developed a similar lexicon over the past few decades -- the Politically Correct Multi-Culturalist Lexicon -- by which Third World peoples (particularly Muslims) whenever they take up arms and attack other people are endowed with the halo of "freedom fighter" (with a bit of Che Guevara-esque heroism thumbing his nose at "the Man" and fighting for "the People" thrown in for spice); or whenever they exemplify any sociopolitical pathologies or disorders are explained away as the "desperate measures" or "understandable reactions" of "oppressed" peoples suffering under the brunt of post-Colonialist "meddling" by the West and most especially America.

The Islamic Lexicon wouldn't have nearly as much traction as it does have, without the accomodating atmosphere of PC-speak we the West provide.

Posted by: cantor at March 5, 2008 1:25 PM

I am not sure what Haroon Siddique was trying to prove here but at least in this statement one can be sure that Fadlallah was honest in his statement, that is he really did condemn Muslims who attack other Muslims after declaring them as non-believers.

This is hardly a condemnation of terrorism, it is simply an Islamic religious ruling given in an Islamic context: "In a statement he said the phenomenon of Muslims charging others with non-belief, known as "takfir" in Arabic, was "one of the most dangerous issues" faced by the Muslim world."

If for one moment we hear Muslims condemn attacks on non-believers, this kind of statement might have been worthy of notice.

Posted by: Jerry M at March 5, 2008 1:26 PM

Muhammad was demonstrably moderate.
After a victorious battle with the Banu Qurayzah tribe in 627, Muhammad chose to protect the lives of the women and children. He could have beheaded them all (as he did to the 600-900 men who wouldn't convert to Islam) but in his MODERATION, he let the women and children live as slaves.

So logically, since Muhammad's behavior was moderate, the religion he founded, which strives to emulate his conduct in every way, must also be moderate.
I rest my case.

Posted by: Xero G at March 5, 2008 1:45 PM

OT: BREAKING NEWS

Ex-sailor convicted in terror case

and the story actually identifies him as a Muslim!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080305/ap_on_re_us/navy_terror

By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer

NEW HAVEN, Conn. - A former Navy sailor has been convicted of leaking details about his own ship's movements to suspected terrorism supporters

Jurors were in their second day of deliberations when they convicted Hassan Abu-Jihaad of Phoenix of providing material support to terrorists and disclosing classified national defense information.

Federal prosecutors said the 32-year-old sympathized with the enemy and admitted disclosing military intelligence.

But his attorney said an investigation failed to turn up proof that Abu-Jihaad had leaked information.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) — Federal prosecutors urged a jury Monday to convict a former Navy sailor of leaking ship movements to suspected terrorists, saying he sympathized with the enemy and admitted disclosing military intelligence.

But an attorney for defendant Hassan Abu-Jihaad said an investigation that spanned two continents over four years failed to turn up proof that he leaked details of ship movements and their vulnerability to attack.

A jury will begin deliberating Abu-Jihaad's fate Tuesday after hearing six days of testimony.

Abu-Jihaad, 32, of Phoenix, has pleaded not guilty to federal charges that he provided material support to terrorists and disclosed classified national defense information.

He is accused of passing along details that included the makeup of his Navy battle group, its planned movements and a drawing of the group's formation when it was to pass through the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf on April 29, 2001.

Abu-Jihaad, who did not take the stand, was a Navy signalman honorably discharged in 2002.

Prosecutors said Abu-Jihaad was the only member of the military communicating with the suspected terrorists.

They cited one e-mail in which he called the attack on the USS Cole in 2000 a "martyrdom operation" and praised "the men who have brong (sic) honor ... in the lands of jihad Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, etc."

Said prosecutor Stephen Reynolds: "The evidence in this case points to one conclusion: That Abu-Jihaad was the leaker."

Prosecutors also cited secretly recorded phone calls played during the trial in which they claimed Abu-Jihaad spoke in code about useful information and outdated intelligence.

Prosecutors acknowledged they did not have direct proof that Abu-Jihaad leaked the ship details.

Authorities said details of ship movements had to have been leaked by an insider, saying they were not publicly known and contained military jargon. The leaked documents closely matched what Abu-Jihaad would have had access to as a signalman, authorities said.

"In 2001, Abu-Jihaad had just enough information to be dangerous," Reynolds said.

But Dan LaBelle, Abu-Jihaad's attorney, tried to show Monday that many details of ship movements he is accused of leaking were publicly available through news reports, press releases and Web sites.

He also noted that Navy officials testified that the details were full of errors.

"There are so many errors in that document that it could not possibly have come from an insider," LaBelle said. "If that document is riddled with errors, the government's case is riddled with reasonable doubt."

LaBelle rejected the claim that Abu-Jihaad admitted to leaking Navy secrets, saying that the phone conversation cited by prosecutors occurred many years after he left the Navy and that it was not clear what Abu-Jihaad was referring to.

Abu-Jihaad, an American-born Muslim convert formerly known as Paul R. Hall, served aboard the guided-missile destroyer USS Benfold. Prosecutors say the details he is accused of leaking could have endangered his own ship and others.

Abu-Jihaad was charged in the same case that led to the 2004 arrest of Babar Ahmad, a British computer specialist accused of running Web sites to raise money, appeal for fighters and provide equipment such as gas masks and night vision goggles for terrorists. Ahmad is to be extradited to the U.S.

Abu-Jihaad is being prosecuted in New Haven because the investigation first focused on a Connecticut-based Internet service provider

***********************************

Somewhere down the road we are going to realize that Muslims wanting to enter our military, if this is to be allowed at all, requires some sort of special vetting process.

Posted by: Paleologos at March 5, 2008 1:51 PM

Erik Abild Soerensen, never heard of him? he was one of the Danish cartoonists. He has just died he was 89. I quiet liked the caption under his cartoon. It translates something like this in English

“Prophet! Daft and dumb. Keeping women under the thumb.”

According to Fleming Rose when the police called on him during the Motoon crisis to offer him protection he told them this

”I have passed the age of 85, I am sick and I have just lost my wife. Can it get worse? I don’t think so.”

If there is a heaven for this gentleman it wont be a mythical brothel but a place where he can be reunited with his beloved wife.

Rest in peace old lad.

Posted by: Holger Dansker at March 5, 2008 1:55 PM

Haroon, if I had a name like that I would probably write the same shit.

As for Guardanistas don't worry about them, most of them just say it for show. They don't like it, but the reality is becoming clearer and clearer.

WE shall see.

Posted by: ericthekuffar at March 5, 2008 2:02 PM

So it is "moderate" for Muslim groups to target and kill ethnicities OTHER that their own?

That sounds more like an insidious form of apartheid (to this observer anyway), and NOT a form of "moderation."

I'll make a deal with all other nations that are in agreement with the Guardian and Reuters (and believe us there's plenty of countries that are!)---you guys are more than welcome to take all of our Islamic "moderates" for free. That's right--since there's nothing wrong with Muslims who kill non-Muslims and leave Muslims alone in your well-vocalized view--we'll send you all our Islamic "moderates" free of charge. Anytime! (All you need do is ask us).

Posted by: pythagoras at March 5, 2008 2:06 PM

Looking at the bigger picture, the media's distortions embolden terrorists and rogue governments like Iran's. What is ultimately in store is another huge attack against the West, probably multiple attacks.

Regrettably, it seems only this will provide us the wake-up call to realize what we are facing. I had never understood how the world could have allowed Nazism to reach the strength it did. Now I know. Laziness, ignorance, fantasy thinking.

It's happening again. Today, the media, along with weak western leaders who have refused to nip this in the bud, are bringing us collectively to the point where the unthinkable will occur.

Where Oh where is a LEADER who will DO something?
Will McCain?

The media obfuscations; the government's secret dealings with Iran; the general paralysis that stops ANY meaningful ACTION from being taken. I am beyond frustrated at this point.

Posted by: Rahman bin Rahman at March 5, 2008 2:28 PM

What an idiot. I, nabi ZK, proclaim it.

nabi ZK

...that was a legally binding fatwa...this man...IS...an idiot....

Posted by: zonie kafir at March 5, 2008 2:58 PM

This is puzzling...

So it's terrorism only if your particular faction of islam is attacked. But it's ok for your faction to attack another faction of islam - even though you mostly share the same overall religious beliefs.

So this begs the question. Who gets to keep the 72 virgins? Or is it a draw and each side keeps 36?

Posted by: The Cool Ghoul at March 5, 2008 3:50 PM

There have already been some excellent postings on this subject. So, one thing to add, The Guardian is a seditious rag, nothing more… the leftist woollenheads within this rag’s editorial board, et al, typify where the UK is heading… into a downward spiral.
This is not to be smug; God knows we have our lot of subversive morons within our media ranks.
I, once, read this rag, solely, for its book reviews; however, finding that thereafter, I broke out into a nasty and cruddy, rash on my left arm, followed by an overwhelming sense of nausea.

Posted by: ballzack at March 5, 2008 4:22 PM

This is the same Hezbollah-Fadllallah who issued the fatwas for the big blow-ups of US embassies and Marines in the '80s! Got away with it all, coward Reagan acually awarding Hezbollah and Iran grand prizes in advanced US weaponry of the jihadists choice for the mass-murders and torture-murders of Americans! And in 2006 another Coward-in-Chief and his Cowardeezza rescued Hezbollah from Israel. A top Hezbollah commander called Cowardeezza's UN cease-fire resolution "a life-vest" for them, admitting candidly that they couldn't hold out for more than 10 days if the war went on.
The Coward Country USA has no guts to fight the jihadists and wouldn't let Israel do the job either.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Posted by: Enragedsince1999 at March 5, 2008 4:37 PM

The infiltration of Muslims into Western institutions is not limited to government, but extends to the mainstream media as well. The Muslims are everywhere, and their influence, including the efficacy of their taqiyya, grows stronger by the day.

Posted by: US_infidel at March 5, 2008 4:41 PM

If this Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah is an example of a "moderate Moslem," we might as well toss him into the same bin that holds the immoderate--the jihadist--Moslems.

Same bin, same disposition. What was it that Martin Sheen was ordered to do to Marlon Brando in "Apocalypse Now"? Ah yes, "Terminate with extreme--" best let it go at that, don't want to get in trouble or get anybody else in trouble, or have the sky fall in on me.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at March 5, 2008 7:02 PM

Well, somebody finally spoke up about killing each other for no good reason. HURRAY, WHOOPIE.

Now what about US.

The Guardian. Not good for the Bathroom. It makes a bigger mess than the one your trying to clean up.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 5, 2008 9:50 PM

If this Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah is an example of a "moderate Moslem," we might as well toss him into the same bin that holds the immoderate--the jihadist--Moslems.

That bin is quite laden now.

Posted by: cantor at March 5, 2008 10:14 PM

Holger Dansker wrote:

Erik Abild Soerensen . . .he was one of the Danish cartoonists. He has just died he was 89. . .
....................................

Thanks for the update, Holgar Dansker. Rest in peace, indeed. Kurt Westergaard--the cartoonist who created the most famous of the Motoons, of Mohammed with a bomb in his turban--is not a young man, either. I believe he is 72. He and his wife are under death threats, and a credible plot to kill him was just recently foiled.

I've heard that he and his wife have lost their home, and no longer have police protection--appalling. These men are braver than most of us. Kudos to them, to Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Robert Spencer and all the rest who are putting it on the line for freedom of speech.

Posted by: gravenimage at March 5, 2008 10:38 PM