You can't have peace when the people don't want it. Peace in the Middle East wont happen.

Posted by: Ruebacca at March 25, 2008 9:30 AM

This video is always worth watching to get a quick perspective of what occurred to form the Israel we know today and the Arab terrortory known as Palestine.----Turn up your sound and there are quick read captions

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

Posted by: Mackie at March 25, 2008 9:31 AM

I finally figured it out: fundamentalist Muslims burn effigies and moderate Muslims just burn flags... yeah, that's it.

Posted by: HOV Dummy at March 25, 2008 9:33 AM

When the political, cultural, economic and military unity of Islam is realized,
LOLRTFLMAO
ISLAM unified not likely it has not been in 1700 years

none of them [the infidels] will dare raise a hand to the Muslims.
na a fn fal a1 is much more effective and longer ranged than the muslims fav weapon the ak 47 on ful auto were its the will of allha if they can hit anything yhan hands

The day is nearing, when the Zionist cancer virus, this tumor, will be eliminated.
well i personally hope we will find a cure for the muslim cancer eating at our hard won freedoms freedoms we would not have under islam as muslims or dhimmi

Posted by: crusader at March 25, 2008 9:46 AM

Help Islam be unified. Get out of Iraq now. If you care about Islam -- and I do care, don't you? -- then get those Infidel troops and that American money and those American weapons out now.

And then, as Shi'a from elsewhere, and Sunnis from elsewhere, eagerly participate in the unification process by sending in weapons and money and volunteers, watch the heartening spectacle.

Posted by: Hugh at March 25, 2008 10:05 AM

"MEMRI noted that Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan headed the AGD prior to becoming Istanbul's mayor."
I am afraid Memri is right but would like to have other sources on this.

Posted by: FransG at March 25, 2008 10:07 AM

"and pledged to follow the path of Hamas's Sheikh Ahmed Yassin"

Sounds good to me. I don't know if Israel has enough missles, though.

Posted by: Infidel33 at March 25, 2008 10:13 AM

The rhetoric gets so boring! Always the same silly proclamations about "Crusaders", "Zionists"
and "occupiers".
They know nothing of history, their own or that of anyone else.

"If every Moslem pours out a bucket of water ---Israel's fields will have been watered by their slaves".
I prefer my version --- much more logical!

Posted by: Sencit at March 25, 2008 10:14 AM

Turkey - what a joke.

It's not called "Turkey" for nothing, lol.

No offense against the Thanksgiving bird.

In the early '90's I dated a guy whose mother was Turkish and father American (this guy was NOT a Muslim). Back in those days I never thought about Islam, Mo, or the Qur'an. I mean, who did? Anyway, she said "inshallah" on occasion, but for the most part she was Westernized as all-get-out. Regular clothes - no veils, nothing like that! I never thought of her as a Muslim, I never even thought of that word, and me and this guy dated for years! Interestingly, she also never brought up religion as a topic, never.

Here is my chief memory of her: She was the meanest woman I have ever met. Grendel's Mother has got nothing on this woman!

The above is my sole experience with a Turkish person. It's not meant to say that all Turkish people are as mean and cruel as this harridan was. But, it is my experience, and I thought I'd relate it.

Posted by: darcy at March 25, 2008 10:23 AM

Ezra Levant gets a love note.
http://ezralevant.com/2008/03/moncton-saudi-arabia.html

Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 25, 2008 10:27 AM

The above is my sole experience with a Turkish person. It's not meant to say that all Turkish people are as mean and cruel as this harridan was. But, it is my experience, and I thought I'd relate it.

Darcy,

Im sure you've heard of the references to "Turkish prisons". In some Spanish cultures when something is torturous or a real pain in the rear we say "that's a Turkish Bath".

My brother works with Turks all the time and he always tells me that he wonders how they aren't always at war with someone.

just my 2 cents :-)

Posted by: DeeMack at March 25, 2008 10:30 AM

Can we rename Turkey? Let's call it - Armenia! Now, they killed a lot of Armenians during World War I, so it would be poetical justice.

Posted by: tanstaafl at March 25, 2008 10:45 AM

Erdogan has said that he would disguise himself as the Pope is it would help him destroy the (secular) system. He and his party are behind all of this.

Posted by: Silvester at March 25, 2008 10:46 AM

A few more demonstrations like this, and Turkey can forget about joining the EU. I', certain the population of Europe is watching these activities, even if their politicians are not.

Posted by: kenprice at March 25, 2008 11:01 AM

"In a news release on Monday, MEMRI quoted the Turkish Islamist Web sites Velfecr.com and Kudusyolu.com as reporting that demonstrators carried hundreds of Hamas and Hizbullah flags and posters, as well as pictures of the movements' leaders."

Please excuse me for a bit. I'm going to have a "movement".

Posted by: allahlovesporkchops at March 25, 2008 11:57 AM

We long ago crossed Turkey off our vacation list.

Just like France.

Posted by: Shy Guy at March 25, 2008 11:58 AM

This is moderate, secular Islam, I suppose. There was an article in the French paper Figaro saying that Brussels, the capital of the EU, should have a majority Muslim population in 15 to 20 years. This should aid the Turkish application as they will fit in very well.

Posted by: Drakkar at March 25, 2008 12:02 PM

Well, several years ago I spent a few days in Turkey. While I did not interact a whole lot with any Turks, the ones I did talk to seemed normal enough.

On the other hand, the only Turkish-American I've ever met (as far as I know) was not a muslim, he was totally non-religious in every way. He said he was raised as a muslim (in the U.S) but he totally rebelled against it when he turned 18.

He was a long-haired, pot-smoking hippie. As far to the left as you can get.

Posted by: shortfattexan at March 25, 2008 12:44 PM

Meanwhile, the Dudley-Do-Rights of the west pander the likes of Turkey and cower from the Islamo-Fascist states of Iran and Syria. The west has become a laughingstock with its Chaberlainesque kowtowing.
Though off-topic, the QUARAN is apparently going to be taught in Brit schools, I have not read the full report, nor is it an absolute, hopefully.
This said, Neville will be, so, amused and pleased as he peers up through the lava-like ambers and flames, assured that peace at all cost did not die along with him.

Posted by: ballzack at March 25, 2008 1:15 PM

Comments on "the Turks" are misplaced. One should stick to the ideology of Islam. Those Turks who are most wedded to Islam are likely to be, for reasons we all understand, also those most hostile to non-Muslims and to everything, including the Enlightenment, that that non-Muslim world represents, and are also the most likely to be more likely to have acquired the habit of mental submission, and opposition to free and skeptical inquiry, that is such a notable feature of Islam, as it has been in the past, with other faiths that, nonetheless, carried within themselves, it appears, the ability to transcend that opposition. Science develops in the West, not in Islam.

Which Turks are we talking about? The brilliant Ottomanist Hilal Inalcik? The entrepreneur Mr. Sevin, who gave MIT $100 million? The businessman Sabanci? The people who lovingly curate the pre-Islamic artifacts in various museums at the Topkapi complex? Timur Kuran, who has written so intelligently about "Islamic finance"? All those Turks in the Western world, the ones who are not intent on defending Islam, and are alarmed about the assault on Kemalism, and the return of Islam (which never really left), or those who, for some reason, continue to exhibit Muslim attitudes and sympathies? Which Turks?

And that same observation can be made about all kinds of others. Barack Obama apparently believes that there is something called "the black community." Who is in that "black community"? Is Ward Connerly in the same "black community" as Al Sharpton? What about Ms. Worthy, the crusading black prosecutor who has gone after Kwame Kirkpatrick, the black mayor of Detroit? Is she part of the same "black community" as Kirkpatrick? Was Alberta Hunter, and Paul Robeson, who went out of their way to sing songs in Yiddish, part of the same "black community" as Minister Farrakhan? And so on.

And that "white community" which includes, apparently, both Jacques Barzun and Ward Churchill, what shall we say about that "white community"?

Fill up the page, printer. Fill it up for the so-called "black community" and the so-called "white community" and the "Turks" and the "French" and the "Americans." Go ahead. Generalize, idiotically, away. It's all the rage.

Posted by: Hugh at March 25, 2008 1:20 PM

A very valid point, Hugh.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 25, 2008 1:33 PM

Ataturk did about as much as humanly possible to make Turkey a nation which was modern and progressive. It's now moving with deliberate speed to Islamic backwardness (excuse the redundancy). I have to wonder, though, where the Turkish military is on all this. Is it as secular and opposed to Islamic infiltration as ever or has it too been compromised significantly?

Posted by: Wellington at March 25, 2008 1:42 PM

Sheesh Hugh,

Don't get yer panties in a bunch. Im sure most of us were makin fun.

We can all come up with goofy things to say about anyone Im sure.

PS. Steroetypes often do have some basis, btw.

Posted by: DeeMack at March 25, 2008 1:48 PM

During a 5 year stint in the 90's, I worked in many cities across Turkey and found the people to be absolutely the kindest, and most hospitable people as a group, than any other Euro-country. (Certainly nicer than the average Frenchman). I saw more hijabed women in Brussels, London, and Paris than in Izmir, Istanbul, or Ankara. My Turkish collegues drank alcohol, ("Raki" similar to the Greek Ouzo) ate ham sandwiches and showed me their driver's licenses where it specified their religion was Islam. They called Islam "a joke" but only for political reasons did they list their religion as Islam.

I'm afraid the Turkish attitude of the 90's is disappearing fast...if not already gone.

Posted by: Xero G at March 25, 2008 2:17 PM

I think it is called a Multicultural Community. Some pretty words to mask those sharp edges and rough sides.

Turkey, under a growing full Moon, turns to its darker half worse than your average B Movie.

All the Skunks want you to smell them it seems. How that smell can linger!

Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 25, 2008 2:18 PM

Muhammad - look what you've started - you blood thirsty prophet of doom and gloom. These perfect followers are merely following their "perfect man" prophet, who was Perfectly Evil, that is.

One mans evil is another mans good in Islamaland, where the Twilight Zone can be viewed in real time.

Posted by: champ at March 25, 2008 2:23 PM

"Don't get yer panties in a bunch."
-- from a posting above

The phrase is "Don't get your knickers in a twist."

I won't. I don't wear knickers.

Posted by: Hugh at March 25, 2008 2:40 PM

The phrase is "Don't get your knickers in a twist."

posted by Hugh

rotfl! too cool! fair e'nuff.

Posted by: DeeMack at March 25, 2008 2:54 PM

Does anybody have an idea how to get Memri's claim that "Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan headed the AGD prior to becoming Istanbul's mayor" affirmed? To me this seems a highly important question.
I already found most discomforting information on Gül (praising the leader of the armenian genocidal transports). Are Erdogan's viewpoints so similar with Hamas' ?

Posted by: FransG at March 25, 2008 3:02 PM

I imagine Hugh wears boxers, so the correct phrase would be, don't get your boxers in a bunch - or if he's a briefs kinda guy, then don't get your briefs in a bunch. Either way it's nasty to think about.

Posted by: champ at March 25, 2008 3:21 PM

>>Im sure most of us were makin fun. -Deemack

Not me. I pointed out one *specific* example of my own experience with a Turk. ONE. I was not "generalizing," as I made clear.

And, as I previously said, Grendel's Mother has nothing on this Turkish woman! Mean as a rattlesnake. The rattlesnake is nicer.

Posted by: darcy at March 25, 2008 6:14 PM

Well, we have loads of Turks in Germany and I can tell you they're not universally liked over there. Strangely enough, there is no such animosity toward East Asians or Christian Sub-Saharan non-moslem Africans.

Let's just recall the imperialist and shameful behavior of the fascist Erdogan on his most recent visit to Germany. They always try to play the Nazi card to get something. It's revolting.

As you can see they're pretty anti-semitic themselves and have the gall to position themselves as "the next Jews" in Germany.

Typically Turkish. Sorry, Hugh but I've had my experiences with them when I lived in Germany.

I will agree it has to do with islam. That's is why I hang around this site.

Some of my experiences:

In High School I didn't have much money so I got together with a friend and we sold used refrigerators and stoves.

We had all kinds of clients, including besides Germans - notably as a positive experience were English and Swedish. They knew to either accept a price quoted them or leave or maybe look at another model.

One day the phone rings and it's a turkish accent on the line. So i am trying not to discriminate but the guy is already ticking me off with lots of stupid and presumptuous questions in a barely intelligible accent.

Finally the guy shows up in an old MB diesel spewing fumes all over the yard. He asked the price for the nicest fridge and offers me DM 25 instead of the DM 125 I had quoted him.

So this started to turn into an argument and the guy acts like he's doing me a favor by offering me DM 35.

So i asked him to leave and shut the garage gate.

Of course he had to o there and proclaim that I don't like Turks. I told him that everyone pays the same price and i have no time for hagglers to aggravate me.

The guy was cursing and having a general little hissy fit.

Of course that is one instance that made me liek them a little less than even before.

I had one try to child molest me on a train to my grandmother when I was 12. I barely got out of that situation unharmed.

When my football team was beating a turkish team in our division 7-0 with half an hour to go and our defensive end cae up against their goalie all by himself the goalie kicked our player in his privates with full force, sending him to the hospital for an emergency operation.

Of course the rest of them fled over the fence and we dumped their belongings out of the locker room into hefty bags.

Unlike them we didn't steal anything.

We just got rid of the garbage.

The Turkish national team was getting beat by the Swiss a couple of years ago and not only did the Turkish players assault the Swiss but so did their stadium security staff!

They do NOT belong in Europe!

Remember the row over AC Milan's "crucifix" jerseys?

The dismembering while alive and garrotting of Christian missionaries recently in Turkey?!

Ad NAUSEAM!

I read somewhere that a writer said he Europeans got rid of 6 million cultured Jews and replaced them with 20 million[and counting] hate-filled and destructive moslems.

I have nothing to add to that picture.

In the minds of most Europeans the Turks are the traditional arch enemy of Europe. See Vienna and so on.

The poloticians just refuse to get it.

Posted by: Allah Schmallah at March 25, 2008 8:50 PM

"Typically Turkish. Sorry, Hugh but I've had my experiences with them when I lived in Germany...
I will agree it has to do with Islam."
-- from a posting above

That's all I asked: that the behavior of certain people be ascribed not to their being "Turks" or "Arabs" alone, but to their having been suffused with Islam, and what, over time, Islam does to people, how it forms them. And it is legitimate to discuss other factors that contribute to making certain traits or characteristics more pronounced in people of one nationality rather than another, as long as it is not implied that "all" these or "all" those (see my remarks on "the black community" and "the white community" -- god, I'm beginning to hate that word "community" -- in my initial post above)are being discussed, but merely "many." The haggling Turk you described -- why not discuss haggling as a way of life in more primitive economies, the kind the Muslims have, and where getting better of someone, mistrusting your neighbor, is a way of life, and the fixed price, or more-or-less fixed price, that we are used to in the West is the result of a different attitude, a different society, economics, politics.

Man wants but little here below.
I'm a man.
I want but little here below.

That's a syllogism that holds water.

Posted by: Hugh at March 25, 2008 11:00 PM

"...but to their having been suffused with Islam, and what, over time, Islam does to people, how it forms them." -posted above.

Such as the Islamic characteristics of entitlement, and that they're the "superior peoples" and we're the Infidel low-lifes.

The Q instructs the followers of Islam to kill everybody not Islamic until the world is "all for Allah" and that it's A-OK to do this and you even get martyrdom and a brothel Paradise as reward for murder and mass-murder.

That's Islam's biggest problem, and accounts for the often-seen characteristics mentioned above.

In my ex's mother's case, I see now that from Islam she felt infinitely superior to me, an Infidel, a Christian, and indeed I learned that she had treated all of his prior "Infidel" girlfriends in the same malicious and vicious manner. There was only one ex of his she treated with any niceness - an Iranian woman named Anahita my ex had dated in grad school. She used to wax adoringly about Anahita. Now I know why - she was Muslim. All the Infidel girlfriends got utterly trashed. It did not matter how cultured and educated we were - first, we were Infidels. I see that now, and how! I also understand this - the girlfriend prior to me was...Jewish. Uh Huh. And guess what? She was treated the worst of all. Indeed, all of the puzzle pieces from that time period have fallen into place, now that I know about Islam.

Anyway, I wish I had never known that woman. I used to call her the "evil harridan." That's how bad she was. And, yeah, after knowing all I do now about Islam/Mohamet/Qur'an - that I had no knowledge of at all back in the early '90's - I attribute her viciousness and maliciousness, both verbal and physical - yep, physical - to Islam.

The "religion of peace."

Posted by: darcy at March 26, 2008 10:40 AM

Thousands of Turks chanted anti-American and anti-Israel slogans.

Well that will pretty much guarantee Turkey entrance ot the EU. Their is nothing the westen socialist Dhimmis love more than an anti semitic, anti-American country.

Just look at Ken Livingstone, the reich fuhrer of Londonistan.

Posted by: DaveMate at March 26, 2008 12:27 PM

I have the same experience as darcy.. the pieces have fallen into place. It invariably has to do with islam and NOT because I am "racist" or anything.

I had a friend whose father was Algerian and his mother was German. the son had been given an ur-German name and excelled on our football team.

They kept beer on the balcony like all normal lower Middle-Class Germans do.. and they offered me beer when I visited.

I used to wonder why are soem Indians really really smart and cool and then some others are dastardly and "act like Turks".

The answer should be obvious to all.

So keep up the good work, Spencer and Hugh and everyone involved!

Aqnd never let anyone make you "feel bad" if you dislike islam.

There is ample reason for much stronger feelings than dislike.

The more I learn about it the more I loathe it.

Posted by: Allah Schmallah at March 27, 2008 9:30 PM

The haggling Turk you described -- why not discuss haggling as a way of life in more primitive economies, the kind the Muslims have, and where getting better of someone, mistrusting your neighbor, is a way of life, and the fixed price, or more-or-less fixed price, that we are used to in the West is the result of a different attitude, a different society, economics, politics.

---

More than that. They act like they should SET the price. Like they are above the rules that apply to everyone.

I am really really concerned about admitting a country where the MAJOR proportion of the population consists of utterly uneducated "brain surgeons" who have this particular sense of entitlement based solely on islam.

They are way behind us in every which way and we must counter their intransigence with twice the intransigence and plenty of insults pertaining to their backwardness and lack of accomplishments to boot.

We do not owe them any kindness at this point in the game.

They have forced things to this point and I do not feel guilty at all for saying this.

islam is not good enough for me to wipe my shoes on and I treat it as such.

I treat any sane normal person politely and with kindness. But when it comes to islam and its manifestations I have to draw the line and check my humanity at the door.

Posted by: Allah Schmallah at March 27, 2008 9:50 PM