Just the usual suspects responses as we all predicted this the normal reaction from these Muslims. Whats new. I think really it will be for the non-Muslims to make the changes. Because the Muslims are just too arrogant in their beliefs. After all we are the dhimmis and infidels who keep pouring countless jizya and bounty to these Mohammedans. So ultimately we perpetuate this in the long run.

Posted by: savsiv at March 28, 2008 8:29 AM

"Inflaming hatred". What rot. Wilders is just reporting on a matter of fact. If Muslims can't face the facts, that's their problem. But don't deny these facts and don't deny Wilders' right to make this film which merely reflects reality.

"Racist". Again, these people are just too lost in their own mental quagmires.

There is only one word to describe the Dutch Prime Minister's reaction to this whole episode: gutless.

Posted by: S Perry at March 28, 2008 8:35 AM

Lets see, Muslims spread a message to infidels, Wilders replays that same message in a short film and it's blasphemous and hateful ... which goes to identify who the haters and blasphemers are.

The film is a mirror for Muslims.

Posted by: Sounder at March 28, 2008 8:44 AM

"The European Union supports the Dutch government's approach and believes the film serves no purpose other than 'inflaming hatred'."

The Qur'an itself inflames hatred, but the PC-EU doesn't dare state the glaringly obvious.

"Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said he rejected Wilders' views and was pleased by the initial restrained reactions of Dutch Muslim organisations."

How well behaved, even civilized, are these Dutch Muslims! Restrained they are, and so unlike those other Muslims who would kill filmmakers like Theo van Gogh...oh, forget it.

Posted by: Lex at March 28, 2008 8:53 AM

"The European Union and its member states apply the principle of the freedom of speech which is part of our values and traditions. However, it should be exercised in a spirit of respect for religious and other beliefs and convictions.

Black is white, night is day, the Euro-dhimmis come out to play.

It is the pathetic state of our times that the gutless anti-Christian jerks running the European Union can take a factual documentary and attack it only as disrespectful.

Posted by: patagonianplato at March 28, 2008 9:01 AM

People, this is OT, but I just read this sentence in this female Mohammedan's column:

"If people who aren't Muslim just realize that Islam has been around since the first man Adam"

LOL! Why do they think that people who have firing and connecting neurons will believe that easily-disproven-by-historical-fact rubbish?!

Hope you'll take just a wee break from the Fabulous Mr. Wilders and read and perhaps comment:

http://media.www.lsureveille.com/media/storage/paper868/news/2008/03/28/Opinion/Hurricane.Relief.Workers.Experience.Prejudice-3288610.shtml

Posted by: darcy at March 28, 2008 9:04 AM

"while Dutch Muslim leaders urged restraint."

Why would Muslim leaders URGE RESTRAINT? After all, Islam is a religion of peace. You never see Christian leaders feeling the need to urge Christians for restraint over a movie or a cartoon. Why the need?

Posted by: Elric66 at March 28, 2008 9:13 AM

It's no surprise that the dhimmi officials would whimp out, they whimped in after all. It's a slow process, but more and more people are getting on to the Islamic agenda. Except officials. This seems to be a world wide phenomena among officials and celebrities.
Whats unique about this film, is it comes from one of their own, a political/official/celebrity.
Wilder is not 'sticking it' to muslims, he is sticking it to his peer group. He has literally shoved reality into their faces, and listen to them howl. He is saying, 'look at this...Is this what you are defending? Is this what you want to go soft on?
Is this what you want to share power with? Wake up cowards, the evidence is in front of you'.
Unfortunately, the politicians are not going to wake up. The leftists types are submerged in PC. They are already shooting at the messenger, while ignoring the message. The only solution for that is a popular peoples revolt expressed at the ballot box.
Stop electing whimps to office...we need 'real' men in charge...Where's John Wayne when you need him? Ask not 'What would Jesus do', ask instead, 'What would John Wayne do'? I don't know, but he had grit. 'True grit'. Something the whimpy officials don't have, but Wilder does...

Posted by: duh_swami at March 28, 2008 9:16 AM

"'Our call to Muslims abroad is follow our strategy and don't frustrate it with any violent incidents,' Mohammed Rabbae, a senior Dutch Muslim leader, told a news conference in a mosque in an Amsterdam suburb that is home to many Muslims."
-- from the article above

"our strategy."

"Our call to Muslims abroad is follow our strategy."

Not what we would do if we could do without harm to Muslim interests. Not if death threats and economic boycotts and riots everywhere and threats of permanent mayhem and murder worked. But right now, just now, they would not be in our interests. Nothing moral about our choice. It's "our strategy."

But the goal remains the same as that of the Danish Muslmis who urged Muslims elswhere to engage in economic boycotts, recall of ambassadors, and riots in Muslim lands and threats of permanent mayhem and murder.

It is just that right now, out of calculation and not any moral qualms or any sense of decency, the Dutch Muslims have decided to urge calm.

Because it's "our strategy."

Not unlike other Muslims, such as the Slow Jihadists of Fatah, who tell the Americans -- who are not appalled, because not comprehending -- that "we choose peace as a strategic option."

"a strategic option"

"our strategy"

Posted by: Hugh at March 28, 2008 9:18 AM

"'Our call to Muslims abroad is follow our strategy and don't frustrate it with any violent incidents,' Mohammed Rabbae, a senior Dutch Muslim leader, told a news conference in a mosque in an Amsterdam suburb that is home to many Muslims."
-- from the article above

"our strategy."

"Our call to Muslims abroad is follow our strategy."

Not what we would do if we could do without harm to Muslim interests. Not if death threats and economic boycotts and riots everywhere and threats of permanent mayhem and murder worked. But right now, just now, they would not be in our interests. Nothing moral about our choice. It's "our strategy."

But the goal remains the same as that of the Danish Muslmis who urged Muslims elswhere to engage in economic boycotts, recall of ambassadors, and riots in Muslim lands and threats of permanent mayhem and murder.

It is just that right now, out of calculation and not any moral qualms or any sense of decency, the Dutch Muslims have decided to urge calm.

Because it's "our strategy."

Not unlike other Muslims, such as the Slow Jihadists of Fatah, who tell the Americans -- who are not appalled, because not comprehending -- that "we choose peace as a strategic option."

"a strategic option"

"our strategy"

Posted by: Hugh at March 28, 2008 9:18 AM

This is OT too but bear with me for a moment, it's important:

Unfortunately, I can't get into too many details on a public forum but I'd like opinions, ideas and possibly a good contact person that is NOT an appologist-dhimmi in a higher place in gov/intel field (hint hint Robert)

basically here's the situation:

-there are several radical muslim converts in our US armed forces

-through indirect comments and some very flat out ones, they have stated their intentions are less than honorable

-these "converts" are looking to get TS clearances (top secret), enter into sensitive training ie: language, intel, spec ops and infiltrate sensitive units

-so far, NOTHING is being done in spite of complaints from other members of our armed forces. These persons are not being investigated and further more are moving forward with their infiltration.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im beyond frustration.

Posted by: DeeMack at March 28, 2008 9:21 AM

"heinous, blasphemous, and un-Islamic"

So if this is the case where is the proof?

Posted by: Stinkyinfidel at March 28, 2008 9:22 AM

Greetings sounder. Nabi ZK wishes to remind that these statements, made by a mohametan for a mohametan purpose would be considered kosher, er. halal or whatever. But the same statement made by a non-muslim enrages and draws accusations of racism. Then the words are hateful. Get it?

Mohametans can quote qur'an and juxtapose this with images of airplanes crashing into towers and this is a triumphal statement of which mohametans can be proud. But if an infidel says the same exact thing then watch out. Clearly the infidel is not celebrating these heinous acts but condemning them instead. And that is an insult to islam.

Many have observed here the mohametan split brain syndrome where 9/11 is both a triumph for the mohametans and their champion OBL, and a conspiracy perpetrated on the Americans by their corrupt neocon leaders. What can be said? Logic is not a strong suit for these people.

Very early on the nabi observed that the mohametan reaction to being quoted their own scripture was quite nasty. This is why nabi ZK lovse it when bush lectures them about their tolerant and peaceful religion. I wonder if he understands how much that pisses them off.

There is no doubt that this film was directed at the mohametans in order to incite them and fill them with rage. It is not informative to anyone here. It contains no new information. It isn't presented in a new or different way either.

This is good because it exposes the malice of the mohametans and the cowardice of the EU leadership. As Hugh has said, this should be the first in a long series. True. How true. Let's see them try to control their hostility then. Either the come unglued or they sit there smiling while smoke pours from their ears. Either prospect would be entertaining to the nabi.

nabi ZK

Posted by: zonie kafir at March 28, 2008 9:26 AM

"Our call to Muslims abroad is follow our strategy and don't frustrate it with any violent incidents,"

How telling is that statement. So they are implementing a strategy that would be "frustrated" by violent actions. What would that strategy be? Maybe this. Violent actions by Muslims would cause Islam to be scrutinized more closely, revealing the true nature of Islam and its goal of world domination. And since their goal is peaceful demographic stealth conquering of infidel lands if possible, violence would put their intentions and rapid influx into Western countries under microscopic inspection.

It seems as if the common person in the West understands this better than most politicians and people of influence.

Here is a example of typical Western Political doublespeak.

"Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said he rejected Wilders' views and was pleased by the initial restrained reactions of Dutch Muslim organisations."

Hello. Planet Earth calling Prime Minister boot lick-er Balkenende, these aren't Wilders views but Islams. And Gee, how pleased I am of the restrained reactions of Muslims, see how civilized they are.

I have a old saying. Common sense isn't common any more, I call it uncommon sense.

Posted by: havekoranwilltravel at March 28, 2008 9:31 AM

I am a citizen of an EU country and I am disgusted by the latest show of spinelessness by an (allegedly) democratic institution that is (allegedly) supposed to represent us and to defend our interests.

Posted by: margheri at March 28, 2008 9:33 AM

Wilders’ documentary Fitma did more than unveil the truth of Islam’s repugnancy; its objectivity reveals there is still hope for the documentary genre.

Not surprisingly, his detractors, not solely Islamists but those, in the west championing Islam’s cause, will find Fitma racist and libellous. These pathetically unconscionable Western-leftists are traitorous apologists and devotees whose political bent is, akin, to that of Muslims share a commonality with Islam, an overtly bilious and hateful sentiment of the west. Furthermore, as collaborationists, they are hell-bent to destabilize and ultimately, destroy Western-Democracy.

Wilders’ production is skilful and exceptional in comparison to today’s world of slice and dice propagandist rot, such as the cut-and-paste rot pumped out by the likes of Mikey Moore. Wilders was disciplined, staying within parameters of factual reporting; simply, truthfulness.

Ironically, even so, courageous Wilders will be held in contempt and undoubtedly has a price on his head. Now, Muslims will run amok in anarchical and homicidal frenzy: only proving Wilders’ Fitma is no figment of his imagination.

Posted by: ballzack at March 28, 2008 9:35 AM

>>Ask not 'What would Jesus do' -duh_swami

swami, if you recall, Jesus threw the Moneylenders out of the Temple, and not in a nice way. He overturned their tables quite violently, in fact. That's the example of Jesus I use when PC Moonbats try and paralyze you (Christians) with "turn the other cheek" and "love thine enemy."

So, just as Jesus recognized evil, and overthrew it, so have I recognized evil in Islam, and am working to overthrow it by increasing my knowledge and enlightening others. By speaking up instead of remaining cravenly silent.

Anyway, thought I'd remind you of Jesus trashing the Moneylenders' tables!

Posted by: darcy at March 28, 2008 9:36 AM

This movie should provoke thought. And perhaps for those who might wish to have in their hands for reading and re-reading the passages that appear on-screen, a downloadable text.

It need not be limited to those verses. Many others in the Qur'an which support the same points could be assembled, as was done by those who produced the Qur'an Calcutta Petition. And still other passages, from the Hadith and Sira, might be given, in a ready-reference form.

The most difficult movie to make, and to show, has been "Fitna" itself. But now it has appeared. And the sky has not fallen. And it won't fall, because Muslims are keenly aware, at this very moment, that they had better not do anything quite as dramatic as they did withb the Danish cartoons. For now no murder and mayhem is, as one Dutch Muslim says, "our strategy."

And it is important to keep going, not to let this be a one-time business, but to fill in, to expand, the knowledge of Infidel viewers as to the contents of Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira. The political and media elites of the Western world will not do so. Some do not know, and do not want to know. Some know, but haven't any idea how to deal, in practical policies, with that knokwledge, and so they don't want you to know.

We who both know and want others to know, because we think policies that can adequately deal with the situation -- politices that do not require such efforts as the misplaced, and fantastic squandering, of the war in Iraq -- if adopted in time, by people who shed whatever sentimentalism that may inhibit them, and work to defend, if not themselves (for so many are so disaffected, deplore so much that surrounds them), then the civilizational legacy that was created by others, over a long time, and that they, and we, those present inheritors, have a duty to protect, from Islam and its bearers, for whom our legal and political institutions and ideas on what constitutes political legitimacy, our social freedoms, our modes of artistic expression, our encouragement of free and skeptical inquiry, either are flatly contradicted by the Shari'a, or are otherwise regarded as inimicable to the spirit of Islam.

Posted by: Hugh at March 28, 2008 9:37 AM

Fitna is an excellent production and says what needs to be said. However, it is tiddlywinks compared to what is most needed.....a thorough debunking and exposure of Mohammed as the warmongering corrupt inventor of Islam, rather than a revealer of divine truth. Mohammed's true character is the Achilles heel of Islam and I can imagine that most Muslims are relieved upon seeing Fitna because they know that their whole belief system rests on the idea that Mohammed channeled messages from Allah through Gabriel, and that any challenge to that notion is a mortal threat to their fake identity. Fitna bypasses this completely and it remains all too easy for Muslims and dhimmi apologists to exploit the usual complaint that he lifts the verses out of context and that only a tiny minority takes them literally anyway. A similar film focussing entirely on Mohammed's fraudulent and murderous nature, using the same source materials as Robert's book, would undoubtedly provoke considerably more mass seething and rage than Fitna, indeed it would cause mass panic in the Ummah. Mohammed's phoney prophet status as a perfect model of conduct is the heart of the matter and it is this lie that should be targeted and made public as soon as possible in film form. I hope Wilders is considering this but I assume that even he, a brave man, knows that all hell would be let loose.

Posted by: johndoe at March 28, 2008 9:40 AM

Hi Darcy,

Is that chick actually going to college? She must have taken a class in comparative religions. LOL

Nabi ZK,

Hi there! 'Haven't seen you in a while but you're dead on straight as usual, when you say "Very early on the nabi observed that the mohametan reaction to being quoted their own scripture was quite nasty." That's because Muslims believe in "Do as I say, not as I do." Unfortunately they forget that many of us have a brain and we're not afraid to use it.

Happy Friday! The ping pong balls are finally coming up from under the water.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at March 28, 2008 9:43 AM

This movie isn't even news in the American media. A search on Google for "fitna the movie" ( as of the time I write this comment) yields not a single search result for a mainstream media article on the movie.

I'm not sure if this shows media bias, a lack of interest, the growing disconnect between the traditional media and the news market, or if it is indicative of a marketing failure.

Perhaps I'll take an informal poll of my email contacts and see how many of my friends have heard of the movie.

One can hope that this film is just the beginning.

Posted by: cumulusnine at March 28, 2008 9:52 AM

Okay, I saw the film.

I thought of Christmas at first, perhaps because of the background music.

What did I see? Nothing that I have not already seen somewhere before with the exception that the film made reality less horrible.

What did I hear? Nothing that I have not already heard from muslims themselves and from immams in a mosque somewhere.

As far as racisim charges are concerned, the only ones that can really make a valid claim on this are the Jews, since they are a race and were specifically singled out and identified as "apes and pigs" by muslims.

So that is the film?

No big deal really.

The Dutch lawmakers should be forced to watch FITNA until its message sinks into their think skulls, before they lose them!

Posted by: witness at March 28, 2008 9:54 AM

I've not got time today to analyze this. It was just now posted to our Jewishviews Internet discussion group. I would appreciate anyone that has the time to dissect this article. Thanks. Steve

Friday, March 28, 2008
Reflections after Wilders dangerously slanted film, FITNA
http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2008/03/reflections-after-wilders-dangerously.html

Geert Wilders' film Fitna can be viewed here.

While the identity of the terrorists of 9-11, Madrid, Bombay, London, Bali, Mosul, Karachi, Istanbul and other such attacks needs to be frankly and consistently recognised - they, like Hizb-ALLAH truck-bombers in Beirut, or Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad suicide-bombers or rocket-launchers from Gaza, were not terrorists who just happened to be Muslim, or engaging in acts of terror for no reason or for its own sake, but commited such atrocities precisely because of their reading of their Quran - and while the Quran indeed contains several passages which have been used to incite atrocity - demanding a determined and global campaign to challenge such Jihadi ideology as much as we need to intercept the weapons, finances, training and operations of such terrorists - and demanding also the accurate and consistent naming of such Jihadi terrorists as precisely what they are - as Jihadi terrorists - three other crucial realities also need to be equally recognised, and also acted on. The enemy is not simply **terror**, which is merely a tactic, but the fanatical Jihadi campaign and its toxic ideology.

The enemy target must be precisely identified. in order to be resolutely defeated.

1. Many of the victims of such Jihadi atrocities are themselves Muslim - Bali, Amman, Casablanca, Darfur, Sinai, Istanbul, and Israel have all seen many innocent Muslims slaughtered and maimed. The real divide, the one that matters, is thus NOT between all Muslims and the rest of humanity, but between the true defenders of humanity, from all faiths or none, against fanatical Jihadis.

2. We all need to honor and fully support and actively co-operate with those brave and decent Muslims who resist our COMMON ENEMY - and in both word and deed. The brave and skilful Beduin in the Royal Jordanian Army do not differ from their cousins in the IDF **Shaked** Recon Battalion, or the martyred Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan, as among our common defenders.
Those, including many Muslims, who have the vision and courage to explore a path of peaceful co-operation risk the fate of Jordan's King Abdullah I in Jerusalem on July 20, 1951, Lebanon's first PM, the Sunni Riad al-Solh, assassinated in Amman on July 17, 1951, Egyptian PM, Mahmoud Fahmi al-Nokrashi, on Dec 19, 1948, or President Anwar Sadat in Cairo on Oct 6, 1981, the President-elect, a Maronite Bashir Gemayel on Sept 14, 1982, Minister Pierre Amine Gemayel Gemayel on Nov 21, 2006, ex-PM and a Sunni, Rafiq Hariri on Feb 14, 2005, all in Lebanon, and many others assassinated for their decency.

In 1939-1945, some Muslims volunteered for the 2 Nazi SS Divisions in the Balkans, recruited by the genocidal Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, but 10,000 others in Palestine volunteered for the British Army, alongside 30,000 Jewish neighbors, while the pro-Nazi **Golden Square** revolt in Iraq in April, 1941, was successfully resisted by a multi-faith alliance, with Muslim freedom-fighters in the Jordanian **Arab Legion**, Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus in the Indian Army, Christians in the UK Royal Air Force at Habbaniyah Air Base, and a Jewish fighter, David Raziel, 30, Commander of Irgun since 1938, lost his life along with a British officer, when bombed by a Nazi aircraft on May 20, 1941, while Moshe Dayan of the Haganah lost an eye during the 1941 liberation of Syria from the pro-Nazi Vichy French regime.

A similar multi-faith, multi-ethnic alliance liberated Kuwait when invaded by Saddam in 1991, and saw French, US and UK Forces, whether Jewish, Muslim or Christian, serve alongside Muslims from Syria, Egypt, the Gulf and Saudi Arabia, in a common cause, and against a comon enemy, Saddam.

3. There is today the latest episode in an ancient battle for the very soul of Islam, not just a recent struggle. The absurdity will breed the atrocity. The ancient and honorable rational stream within Muslim thinking must be recognised and celebrated and re-invigorated, that stream which preserved the Hellenic heritage of humanity and transmittted, in Arabic, the glories of Greek philosophy as it did many other treasures, the outstanding tradition of Al-Farabi, Ibn Sina [ Avicenna] and Ibn Rushd [Averroes], and which was drawn on by both Jewish and Christian leading thinkers, like Rabbi Maimonides and Thomas Aquinas. Neither Hikmat [ wisdom - Sofia ], nor Islam, nor freedom, should be surrendered to our common Jihadi enemy.

Wilders brief film, FITNA, is a vital opportunity badly squandered, more by what it totally omits, or virtually denies, than what it actually covers. The enemy is not, and never was, all Muslims, nor all versions of Islam, but only the toxic version, and its ruthless Jihadi followers. Wilders touches on the problem, a threat which challenges Muslims as much as anyone else, but is completely blind to the comprehensive solution needed, which must include the central and vital presence of not a de-formed but a re-formed Islam - drawing on the best of its own history and present - whether his blindness is due to ignorance of history, or malice, or bigotry, matters little. We need a strong, principled unity against the common enemy, not to be further divided. All who resist that real Jihadi treat are my brothers, whatever their own faith or ethnic background.

Tom Carew

Dublin

00353-85-765-1658.

Posted by: monk at March 28, 2008 10:26 AM

This is worth a minute of your time.

http://www.sonsofapesandpigs.org/2008/03/first-reactions-to-dutch-antiq.html

Posted by: Abrog8 at March 28, 2008 10:35 AM

Who can argue with Mohammed's "BBOH" (Beardedman with Bomb on Head) own words Certainly not his followers.

Posted by: inisroja at March 28, 2008 10:39 AM

This is why nabi ZK lovse it when bush lectures them about their tolerant and peaceful religion. I wonder if he understands how much that pisses them off.

Yep, and when he prays in their mosques...haha, I bet they spend weeks fumigating, and scrubbing the area with Allah detergent, to remove all traces of that filthy kuffir. Muslims show up at Bush Ramadan dinner, knowing fully well that their host is responsible for muslim deaths, that continue while they dine. If these muslim leaders are there to participate in a mutual admiration society, they are grievous apostates of the first order. But that is not what they are, and it's not why they are there.
It's hard to believe that Bush does not know of this, or has not been told, but Bush's entire relationship with Islam is strange. Half religious, half political and half stupid...

Darcy...You are right about Jesus, I was speaking generally not specifically, to make a point.
Tolstoy's book, 'The Kingdom of God is Within You', was a overview of Jesus commandment, 'Resist not evil'. Gandhi's 'non violent noncooperation' was based on that, as was MLK's 'passive resistance'. Jesus could, and did get away with
confrontational resistance, as with the money changers, but that was him. For us average folks,
force will be met with force. If I tried to drive the money changers from the temple, the Romans would be on me in a second, I would be arrested, or shot. But that does not mean to do nothing.
Sometimes direct action is called for, which is where John Wayne comes in. In the Fitna production Geert Wilder is playing the role of John Wayne.
The world is not short of battlefield hero's but we are short of political hero's. Geert is emerging as the political hero of our time. Too bad the only political hero to come along in a while is not an American...We need a few people in high places that have 'grit'. You seem to have 'grit' Darcy, that's what I like about you, ever think of running for office?

Posted by: duh_swami at March 28, 2008 10:42 AM

Download (rapidshare):
http://rapidshare.com/files/102873205/Fitna-English.flv

Posted by: FreeSpeech at March 28, 2008 10:43 AM

I commend Geert Wilders on his film. However, there isn't anything new in it to me.

That said, at my web site, one commenter was shocked. She didn't know what the Koran says!

Having been so immersed in researching Islam for the past 6+ years, it's hard for me to believe than an adult here in the United States could not know the truth.

Posted by: Always On Watch at March 28, 2008 10:51 AM

""The European Union and its member states apply the principle of the freedom of speech which is part of our values and traditions. However, it should be exercised in a spirit of respect for religious and other beliefs and convictions."

The principle of freedom of speech won't be part of European values and principles much longer if they don't start defending it.

No one is under any obligation to respect an ideology that seeks to undermine and destroy their way of life in a free and democratic society.

The call for a spirit of respect for religious and other beliefs and convictions should have been directed at Muslims, not at those trying to defend their freedoms.

Posted by: rational at March 28, 2008 10:51 AM

"The enemy is not, and never was, all Muslims, nor all versions of Islam, but only the toxic version, and its ruthless Jihadi followers. Wilders touches on the problem, a threat which challenges Muslims as much as anyone else, but is completely blind to the comprehensive solution needed, which must include the central and vital presence of not a de-formed but a re-formed Islam - drawing on the best of its own history and present - whether his blindness is due to ignorance of history, or malice, or bigotry, matters little."

First of all, there is no 'toxic version' of Islam....there are the texts of the Koran, The Sira and the Hadith. They speak for themselves. Many sentiments expressed in those texts are unmistakeably ' toxic'. Any civilised, sensitive and intelligent human being can perceive this.

Secondly, given that the Koran is regarded by all Muslims as the uncreated and immutable word of God, Islam is essentially unreformable. If any reforms do occur in the future, they will only render the whole Islamic project a fiasco and will be nothing but an expedient gesture to stave off criticism from without the Ummah and extremist pressure from within. It would be best to throw the baby....the monster baby....out with the bath water.

Posted by: johndoe at March 28, 2008 10:51 AM

"Fitna" does indeed provoke hatred... hatred against modern terrorism justified by ancient Quranic verses. Muhammad (PBUH - Put Bomb Upon Head or Place Bomb Under Hat) was the original terrorist as documented throughout his life.

Posted by: Xero G at March 28, 2008 10:52 AM

Hugh is right. There won't be Muslim outrage because quieter forces are afoot:

http://alwaysonwatch2.blogspot.com/2008/03/attempts-to-ban-fitna-movie.html

Posted by: Always On Watch at March 28, 2008 10:53 AM

This should be madatory viewing for everyone. Period.

Posted by: antishock8 at March 28, 2008 10:57 AM

"The ancient and honorable rational stream within Muslim thinking must be recognised and celebrated and re-invigorated, that stream which preserved the Hellenic heritage of humanity and transmittted, in Arabic, the glories of Greek philosophy as it did many other treasures, the outstanding tradition of Al-Farabi, Ibn Sina [ Avicenna] and Ibn Rushd [Averroes], and which was drawn on by both Jewish and Christian leading thinkers, like Rabbi Maimonides and Thomas Aquinas. Neither Hikmat [ wisdom - Sofia ], nor Islam, nor freedom, should be surrendered to our common Jihadi enemy."

Where is this rational stream within the Qur'an, the Hadith or the Sira? Anytime there is enlightened thinking within Islam it is inspite of Islam, not because of it. As long as the passages that "Fitna" cites are available, there will always be jihad. Jihad can sleep for a long time, but when Muslims view themselves in a stronger position, it will wake up and manifest itself. We live in such times.

No amount of wishful thinking will make it otherwise.

Posted by: tanstaafl at March 28, 2008 10:57 AM

Let's have more films. So few read anymore.

The Life of Mohammed

http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2008/03/fitna-only-beginning.html

Posted by: Abrog8 at March 28, 2008 11:09 AM

I've not got time today to analyze this. It was just now posted to our Jewishviews Internet discussion group. I would appreciate anyone that has the time to dissect this article. Thanks. Steve

Friday, March 28, 2008
Reflections after Wilders dangerously slanted film, FITNA
http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2008/03/reflections-after-wilders-dangerously.html

Geert Wilders' film Fitna can be viewed here.

There is nothing to analyze here; in a nutshell the article says that islam is not the problem -- only the extremeists who take islam out of context are the problem.

I disagree with that premise.

Posted by: witness at March 28, 2008 11:17 AM

"The European Union and its member states apply the principle of the freedom of speech which is part of our values and traditions. However, it should be exercised in a spirit of respect for religious and other beliefs and convictions."

No the European UNion and its member states do not apply the principals of freedom of speach, they do not understand those values and traditions. Freedom of speach only exists when there is freedom to offend.

Freedom of speach is there to actually raise and discuss issues rather than start shooting, its there to enable debate and push people to discuss and come to an agreement without fear.

Respect is earned not given you Euro fools, I as a European citizen can not give any respect to this religion because it does not deserve any and that is my right to say that and Wilders speaks for me, you do not and never will speak for me because you do not respect European values and traditions.

I know fascists when I see them, religious fascists and those fascists sitting in positions of authority in Brussels.

Posted by: Daffersd at March 28, 2008 11:20 AM

>>We need a few people in high places that have 'grit'. You seem to have 'grit' Darcy, that's what I like about you, ever think of running for office?

Posted by: duh_swami at March 28, 2008 10:42 AM

This is not the first time you have complimented me, swami, and I appreciate it! Actually, this is a funny coincidence - I have also used the specific word "grit" a la the John Wayne movie "True Grit" to describe people with courage! Not on JW, but just in various conversations. Isn't that funny!

I tell you - JW's just think alike, don't we?! Thank God!

In answer to your question, no way. I'm not a politician. I'm too honest and non-PC. I'd never get elected! See ya, swami. Have yourself a great day.

Posted by: darcy at March 28, 2008 11:21 AM

darcy

duh_swami

Get a room.

Posted by: Abrog8 at March 28, 2008 11:26 AM

Robert: a nitpick, but the quote from Iran used the term "anti-Islamic", not un-Islamic.

We must realize these people taking the film out of context. Moreover, to get the true meaning it must be viewed in the original Dutch.

But let's not deign to respond. Their ignorance is simply not worth our time.

Posted by: saturnine at March 28, 2008 11:30 AM

Of course the European Union and its member states never ever find anything 'inflaming hatred" when the muslims protest in the streets or kill people in the street and leave a knife sticking out of his chest, oh no, muslims never inflame anything - only themselves.

Posted by: HOV Dummy at March 28, 2008 11:31 AM

darcy

duh_swami

Get a room.

Posted by: Abrog8 at March 28, 2008 11:26 AM

Uh, excuse me, abrog8. That's not warranted.

*

>>Respect is earned not given you Euro fools, I as a European citizen can not give any respect to this religion because it does not deserve any and that is my right to say that and Wilders speaks for me, you do not and never will speak for me because you do not respect European values and traditions. -posted above by Daffersd

Excellent post. Esp. love the "...it does not deserve any and it's my right to say that..."

Ditto. Islam, for so many, many, many, (etc) reasons, is not worthy of respect. Anyone who reads the Q can quickly reach that conclusion.

Posted by: darcy at March 28, 2008 11:38 AM

darcy, I commented at your link.
They have to approve of the comments so I doubt that mine will appear.
I didn't say anything inflammatory, just said Islam is only 1400 years old and at constant war.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 28, 2008 11:43 AM

Sorry darcy

Just kidding. The sun is out and warming. Feels like spring. I guess I'm a little giddy.

Posted by: Abrog8 at March 28, 2008 11:49 AM

We are of the view that the film has a racist flavour and is an insult to Islam, hidden under the cover of freedom of expression," a foreign ministry spokesman said. "We call on Indonesian people not to beincited
it is funny how Muslims try to claim they are a race and that anything said about them that is true is racism the funny thing is I've never heard a religion being called a race

Posted by: crusader at March 28, 2008 11:50 AM

We are of the view that the film has a racist flavour and is an insult to Islam, hidden under the cover of freedom of expression," a foreign ministry spokesman said. "We call on Indonesian people not to beincited
it is funny how Muslims try to claim they are a race and that anything said about them that is true is racism the funny thing is I've never heard a religion being called a raceand for that matter it seems like Muslims consider almost anything including Westerners reading and understanding what is in the Koran to be an insult to Islam my question to them isn't what are you trying to hide as Shakespeare said he Doth protest too much

Posted by: crusader at March 28, 2008 11:52 AM

darcy, I commented at your link.
They have to approve of the comments so I doubt that mine will appear.
I didn't say anything inflammatory, just said Islam is only 1400 years old and at constant war.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 28, 2008 11:43 AM

I commented too, interestin. So, check later to see if they appear. This univ paper is Moonbat Uninformed PC City - so don't be surprised if you don't see your comment. But, maybe you will, and me too.

Posted by: darcy at March 28, 2008 12:00 PM

Sorry darcy

Just kidding. The sun is out and warming. Feels like spring. I guess I'm a little giddy.

Posted by: Abrog8 at March 28, 2008 11:49 AM

That's OK. Daffodils and Greenery and Butterflies and Jays and Cardinals and Honeybees are all bopping around where I live, too!

Posted by: darcy at March 28, 2008 12:04 PM

Sunshine is a wonderful disinfectant.

Posted by: Mike at March 28, 2008 12:06 PM

The Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, said the film equates Islam with violence saying, "We reject this interpretation, the vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence. In fact, the victims are often also Muslims."

Ah yes!, so because Muslims are killing and brutalizing each other they just can’t be violent, I see, so it really is a religion of peace!

Posted by: JohnEngland at March 28, 2008 12:11 PM

Ha ha!

It looks like I helped get the comments for the movie turned off at http://www.themoviefitna.com

I was surprised comments were enabled in the first place.

Posted by: non-croyant at March 28, 2008 12:17 PM

Analysis of article by Tom Carew,
posted March 28, 2008 10:26 AM:

blabla-blabla-blabla blaberdebla..//.. The enemy is not, and never was, all Muslims, nor all versions of Islam, but only the toxic version, and its ruthless Jihadi followers..//.. blabla-blabla blablabla...

ad infinitum/nauseam

Boy, have we heard that song before..

Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag.

Posted by: Sagunto at March 28, 2008 12:19 PM

I shouldn't be shocked about the reaction from Europe, but I am. Are they really so out of touch with reality or simply cowards? Is it because they might find their oil supplies cut by Iran or Saudi, so they feel they must turn against Wilders who is simply EXPOSING Islam? Iran has put out awful anti-Jewish videos which are found on youtube and are packed with lies, yet freedom of speech reigns happily in those instances.
Why is our western leadership supine at all times when it comes to Islam? Do they sense the growing outrage from its mainstream citizens, so long dismissed as fringe, and are scared where it might lead should it get traction. Easier to tar the messenger and hope they have succeeded in marginalizing him.
I can't get over the chorus against Wilders. The film shows adherents of the Koran carrying out acts mandated by the Koran. This is becoming Orwellian.

Posted by: Rahman bin Rahman at March 28, 2008 12:23 PM

I understand the EU strategy even though I reject it, it is based on fear, they are worried that the 1% of Muslims that are prepared to carry out violent acts will double or treble to 2% or 3% if we confront it head on, so rather than face that they appease. The idiots have not realised that in Europe they are dealing with 10% to 20% of Muslims in that category and that its already too late, idiots.

Posted by: Daffersd at March 28, 2008 12:30 PM

The comments @
http://www.themoviefitna.com/?p=52#comment-381
are getting more truthful.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at March 28, 2008 12:31 PM

If they don't riot because of this film, perhaps another one needs to be made. After all, they don't seem to mind as much as they used to.

Posted by: PRCalDude at March 28, 2008 12:33 PM

Yeah interesingconundrum I made a false alarm.

Must have been a temporary glitch, but maybe they took the comments offline long enough to delete my comment about using Muhammad's tongue for toilet paper. Let me go check ...

Posted by: non-croyant at March 28, 2008 12:36 PM

While the Iranian mullahs howl in protest about Wilders' re-creations of acts of Islamic terrorism on film, they continue to propagate these same acts of Islamic terror.

At least no one ever died from merely watching acts of terror on celluloid!

Posted by: pythagoras at March 28, 2008 12:52 PM

More maddening Muslim finger-pointing; and big surprise, they are pointing blame in the wrong direction. Not a single chastising word to those who committed these heinous crimes, that's because they are working in concert towards the same goal: For the evil cause of Islam.

Posted by: champ at March 28, 2008 1:04 PM

To all those tom-carews of this world (see a posting above) who attack “Fitna” because they wish to retain the support, as they see it, of some “moderate” Muslims, which “moderate” Muslims are simultaneously our “allies” in “this struggle” and at the same time, are likely to be so enraged by such efforts at “Fitna” (but why? Shouldn’t they too wish Infidels to be apprised of what is in the Qur’an and, indeed, in other canonical texts of Islam? Isn’t that the best way to ensure that Infidels will cease to assume the posture of the “pre-emptive cringe” -- in J. B. Kelly’s phrase – and, in recognizing what is wrong with those texts, be firmer and therefore more steadfast in dealing with what Tom Carew devoutly hopes and wishes to believe is merely the “bad” version of Islam as opposed to the “good” one about which he, Tom Carew of Dublin, is knowledgeable, and which he, Tom Carew of Dublin, finds so impressive and its existence so comforting.

Again, there is the confusion between some pleasant, plausible, adept-at-pleasing people, some of them insistent that “Islam is not this” or “Islam is not that” – which is exactly, by the way, what Magdi Allam, and what other celebrated apostates, kept telling themselves, in their initial desire, having found Islam so troublesome, not to abandon the faith, as they saw it, of their fathers, including parents whom they remember fondly, and an atmosphere – a blend of smells and sounds and colors – that is really a nostalgia for childhood, or a simpler past, but that they confused with Islam, and gave that Total Belief-System the benefit of every doubt, until, in the free West, they could do so no longer.

There are so many different things wrong with Carew’s letter that only a few can be dealt with here.

In the first place, there is again the postulating of the “moderate” Muslims without discussion of what that word “moderate” may mean, or does mean, and what it should mena if it is to have any value, anything on which non-Muslims can rely – or even, as the tom-carews of this world have it, bet their entire civilizations, their lives, on such a concept. See "Ten Things To Think When Thinking About Moderate Muslims" at this website. The usefulness of the concept much diminishes in light of the fact that Muslims, well-versed in deception ("war is deception") can that the who do not understand that it is the Infidels who need to be alerted, and given a clear understanding of the meaning, and menace, of Islam (which can be distinguished from Muslims -- "There are moderate Muslims. But Islam itself is not moderate" though a bit too much is made of the "moderation" of those supposedly "moderate" Muslims), who do not steep themselves in Islam, the Islam of the immutable texts, and the tenets of Islam that long ago were fashioned from those texts (and the gates of ijtihad slammed shut, and no amount of claiming noisily that those can somehow be swung open, anytime soon, claims made by the impassioned but most limited likes of Mustafa Akyol, who when not busily defending Erdogan and the Return-to-Islam-Step-By-Stealthy-Step Party in Turkey, also promotes Qur’an-only – “sola scriptura” he likes to call it, wrapping himself in a Calvin -Zwingli mantle – as the way forward for Islam, a way that should comfort and reassure Infidels, when the Qur’an itself is, as “Fitna” begins to show, quite enough to send permanent shivers down Infidel spines.

The tom-carews of this world would like Infidels to keep up the pretense, or still worse, to believe, that Islam itself is not a problem, not a threat. But it is. Not “extremist” Islam. Not “radical” Islam. Not “radical extremist” Islam or, still worse, “Islamism.” Islam itself, if fully and faithfully followed, is a problem: its immutable texts, its tenets as derived, and set in stone, long ago, by Qur’anic scholars and jurisconsults, based on those texts, its attitudes, its atmospherics, and the renewed and revivified sense, among hundreds of millions, that the duty of Jihad, fallen into desuetude during the centuries of Muslim decline, can again be met, not because of any change in those texts for the (as Infidels see it) for the worse, but because of a perceived change in the power of Musoilms to engage in Jihad with the likelihood of success, that is a change, in the world, for the better – a change consisting of three elements.

And those elements are, to repeat: 1) the trillions of dollars – some ten trillion since 1973 alone – received by Muslim oil states because of an accident of geology.

2) the millions of Muslims allowed in to the countries of Western Europe, by heedless elites, unaware of, uncomprehending of, the meaning and menace of Islam, and fully prepared to believe that Muslim immigrants might be “integrated” just as, say, Hindus or Buddhists or Confucians might be integrated, for there was no understanding that while others might come with alien creeds, Islam alone was an alien and a permanently hostile creed, a triumphalist creed, one without limits in its view of where Islam should spread, and dominate, and Muslims rule, as rule by right they must.

3) the technological advancements made by Infidels (in both the West and in East Asia), that have been appropriated by Muslims and used with effect to disseminate their propaganda. Khomeini taped speeches in his exile in France, and had them reproduced and sent all over Iran, whipping up the rural poor and the urban disaffected – you could buy them from the bazaris, you could have them given to you for free. And Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and a thousand other groups and groupuscules, and individuals who fancy themselves martyrs, have gone far beyond audiocassettes, to videocassettes (sold in souks from Morocco to Afghanistan), and satellite television (Al-Manar, Al-Jazeera, Al-this and Al-that), and of course the Internet, where Muslim tapes on YouTube, either of the Da’wa kind, or of the whipping up those who are already Muslims kind, are an important tool of Jihad, and while all of it – YouTube, computers, the very Internet itself – is a product of the West, those who wish that West ill, and wish an end to the kind of free and skeptical inquiry without which the enterprise of science, and hence technology that – Muslims don’t realize it, for they think one can have technology without encouraging an end to mental submission, for their view is that of Cargo-Cultists, receiving manna from the Big Birds in the sky, and wanting merely to figure out how to keep those Big Birds dropping those cargoes, or even perhaps how to magically create those Big Birds for themselves).

All of these developments have allowed Jihad, that had never gone away but was only, in a sense, like the Hidden Imam of Shi’a Islam, occulted for a while – to come back, and to stride across the world, as it does, in a thousand guises, with a thousand ways of fooling us or a thousand ways for Infidels to fool themselves, about Jihad and about Islam.
The last word, by way of reply to the tom-carews of this world, should be given to Magdi Allam. For years in Italy Magi Alam worried and wrestled, inwardly, as he continued to call himself, and even to think of himself, as a Muslim. This was primarily an act of filial piety. He recalled his modest parents – his father was a driver -- who were Muslims, who derived comfort from the daily rituals of Islam. He even accompanied his mother when she wished to perform the hajj. But those same parents had carefully sent him to a school run by Catholics, by the Comboni sisters, the comboniane, and that had its effect, as did his friendship, at a tender age (15), with a Jewish girl, possibly one of the last remaining in Egypt. Later, he left for Italy, ready to repeat – and indeed repeating on the Italian streets -- all of the slogans about the “Palestinians” and the perfidy of Israel, which he discusses in his “Viva Israele.”

He took issue with Oriana Fallaci’s uninhibited remarks about the behavior of Muslim immigrants in Italy, in Tuscany, in his “Open Letter to Oriana Fallaci.” And he continued to take in the world of Islam, and the world of the West, to contrast and to compare.

And in the West, last week, after years of wrestling with the question of Islam, just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali had done so, and Wafa Sultan, and Ibn Warraq – none of them suddenly saw the light, none of them jettisoned Islam overnight -- the highly intelligent, morally advanced Magdi Allam summed up his experience of Islam thus:

The darkness in which the preaching of hatred and intolerance in the face of the “different,” uncritically condemned as “enemy,” were privileged over love and respect of “neighbor”….my mind was freed from the obscurantism of an ideology that legitimates lies and deception, violent death that leads to murder and suicide, the blind submission to tyranny…

Has Magdi Allam, in his years of thought about the matter, both in Egypt and in Italy, misunderstood Islam? Has Ayaan Hirsi Ali, with her experience of Somalia, and Kenya, and Saudi Arabia, and the Netherlands? What about Wafa Sultan who came from Syria and has lived in the United States? What abut Ibn Warraq from Pakistan ? Ali Sina from Iran? Have all of those apostates, from so many different Muslim countries and presumably different life experiences –but in societies suffused with Islam – those apostates, whose names we now know, whose measure we have taken, all of them simply those whose names we know, and whose measure we have taken, misunderstood Islam ? What about the scholars of Islam? What about Joseph Schacht and Snouck Hurgronje? What about Arthur Jeffrey? Henri Lammens? Charles-Emmanuel Dufourcq? Samuel Zwemer? Have they all misunderstood Islam ? What about John Quincy Adams, the most learned of all of our Presidents, with a wide experience of men and events as well as with books – did he misunderstand Islam in his celebrated analysis of it ? What about Tocqueville, who had observed Islam in North Africa – was he, Tocqueville, an acute observer of reality – see “Democracy in America” – or was he wildly misguided? What about Winston Churchill, and his comments in “The River War”? Was he misguided – did he misunderstand the meaning, and menace, of Islam?

Were they all, all of them wrong, and espositos and armstrongs and ernsts and feldmans right? And is it Tom Carew who convinces you, with his reasons for not applauding “Fitna” and other such efforts at alerting and educating, more convincing, in your view, than Magdi Allam?

Posted by: Hugh at March 28, 2008 1:05 PM

The Movie gets to the heart of the matter. Everything else is just spin sufficient to halt the rotation of the Planet.

If Iran disputes this Film, does that mean they also refute everything they have said publicly for the last 30 some years???

Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 28, 2008 1:06 PM

The Movie gets to the heart of the matter. Everything else is just spin sufficient to halt the rotation of the Planet.

If Iran disputes this Film, does that mean they also refute everything they have said publicly for the last 30 some years???

Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 28, 2008 1:14 PM

I heard a news item about Fitna on the radio today...they mentioned the response to this "anti-Islamic" movie...as if that was a given - I thought a more objective term could have been used, such as "film about Islam" or "film about a person's opinion of the relationship between Islamic texts and acts of violence..." But the media is already labeling this as anti-Islamic...

Posted by: ReligionofPeas at March 28, 2008 1:55 PM

The UN Secretary calls Fitna anti-Islamic. That's not very profound, because the movie declare's itself to be against Islamisation.

I've seen the word fitna translated as "mischief" and "strife" and it seems that it may be the Arabic antonym for Islam. A good choice as the film shows that Islam has brought about the exact opposites of peace and submission.

Posted by: n1cholson at March 28, 2008 2:11 PM

"This movie isn't even news in the American media."

cumulsine, it's in the SF Chronicle today, a short article on page 4 of the front section: "Film critical of Quran posted on Dutch website." For some reason, though, I can't find it on their website (SFGate.com). The article is attributed to the Chronicle News Services.

Posted by: kaffirchick at March 28, 2008 2:34 PM

Thnx @Hugh (1:05 PM),

my respect for your stamina to refute all the Tom Carews of this world, though I'm afraid Tommy himself is beyond rescue. I reckon saving Tom from his own self-righteous selfislamization didn't rank high on your priority list ;-)

People like Mr. Carew probably have read only one book, i.e. "All I need to know, I learned in kindergarten". Tommy apparently has managed to remain blissfully unaware of even the most elementary knowledge of the orthodox Islamic doctrine, but then again.. knowledge has never been king of the dhimmi hill.

What also surprises me, is that all too often "enlightened" Westerners are able to conjure up this lofty vision of moderating Islam (mega-hybris here we go!) via the likes of Calvin. Such ridiculous suggestions can only be based on a firm and thorough lack of knowledge of anything Mr. Calvin did during his reign in his theocratic terror-state, Geneva. Old Calvinist myths spring to life when "intellectuals" try to run Islam trough the moderating reli wash, modelled after the so-called "Reformation". Even twice-born secularists like Ayaan seem to fall for this fallacy: Enlightenment - in their view the ultimate goal - can only be reached via Reformation. They always seem to forget that professional Islamic religous leaders can see were such a process might lead to. They can hardly be expected to cooperate. Such a waste of valuable time, these myths of moderation.

Islam must be delt with in exactly the same way the West (finally) delt with Communism and Nazism, the revolutionary leftist ideologies of the last century. Sadly enough, Islam is being appeased the way the pre-war European elites "delt" with the Socialist ideology of Herr Hitler: the "Spirit of Munich" once again pervades everything the elitist nomenclatura are saying right here and now. It even pervades what they're not saying ;-)

The Tommy Carews of this world would block, if they could, any substantial opposition to Islam. They hate people who are "judgemental" and fight back. They despise brave politicians like Geert Wilders, as they despise anyone who is prepared to take a stand. That's also why the Tommy Carews of this world don't like Israel, just because it's citizens are prepared to fight back.

So thnx again Hugh,
I've met so many Tommy Carews already that the mere thought of having to analyze their mindset, to me is something akin to staring into a deep dark abyss of vacuity..

Kind regards from Amsterdam,
Sag.

Posted by: Sagunto at March 28, 2008 2:37 PM

Thank you, Hugh. Your eloquent post reinforces my earlier post. "The trouble with Islam" - is Islam. Unless Islam abrogates the violence and intolerance of the Qur'an, jihad will always rise up when Muslims feel they are in a position of strength.

Posted by: tanstaafl at March 28, 2008 3:11 PM

The UN Secretary calls Fitna anti-Islamic. --nicholson

What's wrong with that? Anyone with any intelligence is anti-Islamic. Just as they are anti-Naziism, Fascism, and Communism. Duh. Hello.

Posted by: darcy at March 28, 2008 5:54 PM

The Movie is anti-Islamic. How in the World could it be anything else? So of course it will be called so. Unfortunately, the terms use on the News does not reflect its true meaning. Showing sound bite tidbits of the why, would only allow the correct understanding of of the term on the part of the viewer. At least as much as is necessary for the Public to come to their own conclusion.

Let us all wait impatiently for a Film showing the will of the Moderates in combating what they claim is false. Seeing our own Press is unlikely expose us to the Islamic Paradox.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 28, 2008 6:01 PM

I didn't care a bit about Islam before 9-11. It is like a cancer - the only purpose of it is here to destroy humanity. Are we heading towards some very serious confrontations with the Muslims? It is looking that way at least in my crystal ball.

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at March 28, 2008 6:56 PM

03.28.08

I agree with Johndoe's comments above. Muhammad was phoney but shrewed.
Arabs don't have a word for law (Qanoun is from canon in Latin), nore for music (Mousiqi is also from Latin). I guess when you live in the desert the law is the sword and your only protection is the tribe to which you belong.
Muhammad never changed anything in an arab's life and attitude. That is, until they conquered Iran and learned something about life in the city and civilization. To this day Muslims remain captive to their tribal instincts as reflected in the Quran.

Posted by: imam at March 28, 2008 8:28 PM

DeeMack: Unfortunately, until we get some enlightened leadership at the top level, there is not much you can do about Muslims getting top secret clearances. Any objections you make will run contrary to our laws, official policy, and leadership, and will merely back on you and your career. For now, you had best just keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut, and quietly seek alliances with people who understand what is going on. Eventually, if these Muslim moles are given enough twine, they will snare themselves. Until it gets worse because of our continued blind tolerance, it will not get better.

Posted by: Karl at March 29, 2008 12:35 AM

DeeMack:
Option two: Write to Senator Charles Grassley. He has a reputation for protecting whistle blowers.

Posted by: Karl at March 29, 2008 12:38 AM