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Proportional response.
Now, now. Didn't the Christianists do the same thing when The DaVinci Code came out? No? Uh, never mind. "Anti-Quran film sparks protests in Muslim world," from CNN-IBN:
New Delhi: Muslims in several countries are protesting a film by a Dutch lawmaker's film, saying it insults the Quran.
Hundreds of Islamists staged angry protests across Pakistan after the release of the film and a militant allegedly linked to al-Qaida's No 2 leader also warned that the film will spark reprisal attacks.
Small groups of demonstrators, mostly followers of hard-line religious groups, rallied in major cities, demanding Pakistan cut diplomatic relations with the Netherlands. A banner at one demonstration read, "We hate the uncivilized West."
You Occidentophobe.
The book has verses from the Quran against a background of violent images of terrorist attacks.
These include the 9/11 attacks in the US and the 2004 Madrid train bombings. The film starts and ends with the controversial Danish cartoons on Prophet Mohammad.
Religious activists in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia and several European countries took out protest rallies against the film and the Pakistan government said the film deeply offended the sentiments of Muslims all over the world.
The European Union too has made critical observations on the film. But it was defended by Salman Rushdie, who was himself under attack from Islamic fundamentalists after his book Satanic Verses.
AP adds: The 15-minute film by Geert Wilders, who heads a reactionary political party with seats in the Dutch parliament, was posted on a Web site yesterday. It sets verses of the Quran, Islam's holy book, against a background of images from terrorist attacks.
Pakistan's government condemned the " defamatory film, which deeply offended the sentiments of Muslims all over the world." It summoned the Dutch ambassador to lodge a " strong protest."
Protests have been simmering for weeks over the recent republication in Danish newspapers of cartoons of Prophet Muhammad, and authorities are concerned the Dutch film could spark the kind of violent unrest that the cartoons originally provoked two years ago.
A militant believed linked to al-Qaida's deputy chief Ayman al-Zawahri told The Associated Press in the northwestern city of Peshawar last week militants would mount revenge attacks against foreigners because of Wilders' film.
"Foreigners will be attacked. The situation will change, change, change," said Qari Mohammed Yusuf, whose also said his two brothers died fighting alongside al-Zawahri.
Posted by Marisol at March 29, 2008 2:10 PM
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It will be interesting to have opinions about this..
When Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone:
United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%
At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law.
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris -- car-burnings) . Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam -- Mohammed cartoons).
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%
After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%
From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%
After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
100% will usher in the peace of "Dar-es-Salaam" -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%
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at March 29, 2008 2:26 PM
"Foreigners will be attacked. The situation will change, change, change," said Qari Mohammed Yusuf,"
"Ayman al-Zawahri told The Associated Press in the northwestern city of Peshawar last week militants would mount revenge attacks against foreigners because of Wilders' film."
So what part of the Film are they saying is false?
Islam, when being a fool trumps common sense.
That's like getting mad at someone who complains they are being shot at. Unbelievable. If this wasn't the truth it would actually be funny.
at March 29, 2008 2:33 PM
"We hate the uncivilized West."
Funny after all this I don't hate Islam, I just dislike them and wish they would keep the whiney, everybody is against us attitude to themselves. I'm more tired of it then anything else.
http://static.ibnlive.com/pix/sitepix/03_2008/quran_drawing_248.jpg
But that being said, if they feel like they do in that picutre, as far as WWIII is concerned, let them bring it on already.
at March 29, 2008 2:38 PM
I want a show of hands. How many of you out there care one whit about Muslim sentiments?
Hmmm, I see, one, two, three. No, Naseem, two hands only count as one. Three. that's all.
Posted by: Pelayo at March 29, 2008 2:41 PM
"Foreigners will be attacked. The situation will change, change, change," said Qari Mohammed Yusuf,"
Wait aren't they already being attacked, so if it will change, change, chage, the third change is attack again...I'm gettin so confused with the double/triple negatives or whatever their logic is.
Posted by: Stinkyinfidel at March 29, 2008 2:43 PM
A banner at one demonstration read, "We hate the uncivilized West."
--------------------------
They have a lot of nerve calling us "uncivilized".
at March 29, 2008 2:45 PM
It is just another excuse for their psychopaths that they have been breeding to start their violence openly.
this is on a different subject - I heard on the news today that a 'reformed' jihadist said the reason why so many males become jihadists are to get out of the arranged marriages.
Well, it tells me he is not so reformed since all a male has to do is say 'I divorce you' three times and they can get out of it.
so, my point being - one excuse is as good as another for a jihadist to tell us. The koran is the problem and islam is what preaches the koran. There is no islam without the koran.
Posted by: R_not at March 29, 2008 2:46 PM
"Percentages", Posted by: seville844 at March 29, 2008 2:26 PM
-------------------------
Looking at the percentages, and what muslims do as their population numbers increase, kind of makes you think it's all planned.
By the way, seville844, thanks for laying it all out there in black and white.
at March 29, 2008 2:49 PM
"Blasphemous Drawings to Herald World War III"
Wrong -- 9/11 heralded World War III.
In other words, nothing THEY do will herald World War III; but any response to their atocities heralds World War III.
Or perhaps one could go back to the Jimmy "the Dhimmi" Carter presidency. One could make the case that Dhimmi Carter started World War III by shoving our friend the Shah of Iran out of office, and handing Iran over to the Muslim Mafia.
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at March 29, 2008 2:54 PM
"Foreigners will be attacked. The situation will change, change, change," said Qari Mohammed Yusuf,"
First they are already under attack, so the change he is referring to must be the foreigners will leave and they will have to learn to do the work for themselves.
Second since the Koran offends me, will they print a retraction and apologize too for calling us Najis Kafur?
The hypocrisy of Mohammedanism is breath taking both literally and figuratively.
at March 29, 2008 3:03 PM
I'm ascared.
Now they are going to hate us.
What will they do?
BOMB NEW YORK?
Sorry they shot their shock bolt.
If it's really going to be WW3 or 4, then why wait?
Fitna just didn't have duende...we could have read the words that fit those pix anyday right here.
It's amazing.
The underlying fact is that the islamist principle at work is to kill the west's freedom of speech as a critical step in the advancement of god's will. Who cares if it's thru the idea of blasphemy, or 'respect'?
at March 29, 2008 3:08 PM
I've yet to read a single media story including the basic facts of the story: the quotes from the Quran. In fact, other than one Times of London story from a couple years ago I've never seen the media cover such things at all.
Freedom is on the march, but its feet are sore!
Posted by: Beagle at March 29, 2008 3:15 PM
seville844
Great job! I've been thinking along those lines for years, but you've organized it very well.
Posted by: Beagle at March 29, 2008 3:17 PM
It's my quess that if Wilders just flashed some choice murderous verses from the Qu'arn and Adieth accross the screen, without any images or interpretation, these morons would still have branded the film blasphemous.
It would be interesting to give that a try sometime. That way we could watch as they brand Allah and Mohammed blasphemers.
Posted by: rational at March 29, 2008 3:19 PM
I am so offended at being called "uncivilized" by a neanderthal.
We can only wish the situation does "change, change, change" and no more muslims will be allowed into our countries.
Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at March 29, 2008 3:21 PM
Some protest photos from the Netherlands
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1993293/posts
Posted by: Mackie at March 29, 2008 3:25 PM
"When Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone:...
It will be interesting to have opinions about this..." (Seville844 above)
It was interesting to hear Tariq Ramadan in New Zealand a month ago speaking to a predominantly Muslim audience. When asked whether Muslims should go with the state education system or send their kids to Muslim schools, he came down firmly in favour of the state (secular) system.
All sweetness and light. But then, in the latest 2006 census, Muslims comprise less than 0.01% of the population.
Which supports your point, Seville844.
at March 29, 2008 3:36 PM
Seviille, thanks for your post. Where did you get your figures? I would like to use them in a presentation on Islam and would like to check their veracity. No offense! It is just "Seville, Internet user" doesn't constitute a reputable source! Thanks again.
Posted by: former liberal WF at March 29, 2008 3:37 PM
a militant allegedly linked to al-Qaida's No 2 leader also warned that the film will spark reprisal attacks.
Will these attacks be in addition to the attacks they are already planning or will they just change the rationales for currently-planned attacks to include "Fitna"?
In either case, I'm glad "Fitna" finally came out and has proven Wilder's point, not that I ever had any doubt of the truth of his point. Muslims can complain all they want, but freedom of speech trumps their petty obscurantism surrounding their alleged holy book.
Posted by: venividivici at March 29, 2008 3:38 PM
That's strange, I thought we have been at war and under attack from these coneheads for several years now.
It's our elected leaders and the msm who prescribe to the concept that denial is only a river in Egypt.
Bring it on and get it over with, so we can all get on with our lives.
Better get it done before Iran and Syria have a few tools to do some serious damage.
As it stands now, I can't see much of a concentrated effort other than the usual posturing/rhetoric and low level tactics that include targeting innocent women and children.
To paraphrase the illustrious Wafa Sultan 'I think we should accommodate them'.
For one, I'm tired of all the mindless ranting.
It's giving me a headache.
Posted by: raisethedrawbridge at March 29, 2008 3:46 PM
When jihadis seethe - music to the ears oftheir challengers.
Seethe on and thereby be changed - inconfident fools.
Osama is still peed off because of his losses in Iraq.
Thanks Seville.
Muslim immigration is a great danger to us. There must be a way of reversing or neutralizing this danger short of mass deportation. What is it ?
And forget about sharia. Screw sharia.
Posted by: dgene at March 29, 2008 3:53 PM
New Zealand - correction - that would be not 0.01% but 0.9% Muslim population in 2006.
Posted by: MBR at March 29, 2008 3:59 PM
It is so blatantly obvious to me that something is toxic in Islam based upon just reading the news, that I wonder why people persist in dismissing concerns about Islam?
I'm a devote Christians, but I've never believed until now in the idea that Satan (never much believed in Satan being other than a metaphor for collective human depravity) is blinding people to the obvious truth.
It is obvious that Islam has a toxic element to it which is a danger to Muslims and the rest of humanity.
Now, I've got the "its Satan" off my chest, does anyone have any sociological explanations for the collective blinders of Western society? I'm thinking that perhaps the shame of Jewish anti-antisemitism is being wrongly transfered to Muslims, in that people are dismissing these stories as lies, because they are overcompensating for the collective shame of the Nazi period or perhaps even the Western Imperialism of the 1800-1900's. Its that the White Mans Burden has shifted to White Mans Guilt. Therefore some see the criticism of anyone who is non-Western as a form of Imperialism, such that no-critique of Muslims is to be allowed, even though the reality of Muslim savagery in the news is a daily occurrence.
Or since I've debated lefty friends and given this explanation but they persist in seeing Muslims as the victims while apologizing for their murderous ways (they are third world oppressed people who are acting out because of Western Imperialism). I'm a thoughtful and educated guy, but the denial of so deep, I can only give a spiritual explanation ie Satan.
at March 29, 2008 4:21 PM
Not even WWIII will change the Truth about Muhammad.
Go ahead - kill us all - but the Truth still remains, because you cannot change the facts about Muhammad.
Silly, spooky Muslims. Threats don't hold a candle to the Truth, don't you know.
Posted by: champ at March 29, 2008 4:40 PM
I wonder how it is supposed to change. This is the only way to combat this ideology. To criticize it for what it is: a violent, oppressive and barbaric ideology. We attack it by telling the truth and as much as our foolish leaders want to whitewash and cover up this brutal, bigoted, racist and deceleration of war principles of Islam on all free peoples of the world, the truth will win. Has to because I would certainly would not want to see democratic and free societies become like the violent chaotic and totalitarian regimes of the UMMAH. There is never peace with Islam!
Posted by: savsiv at March 29, 2008 4:43 PM
Seville844
Years gone by since this appeared at FrontPage and Ikhwan has a mole at the very top of the DoD.
The Pentagon Breaks the Islam Taboo
Posted by: Beagle at March 29, 2008 4:52 PM
I saw the statistics at New English Review
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/13782
at March 29, 2008 4:56 PM
The real astounding revelation here is the truth that so many pointed heads, our own people, agree and sympathize with these supremacists. Secondly their outrage is poured on those of us who understand the mission of Islam. There are two worldwide problems, Islam and our narrow minded pointy headed countrymen who protect Islam over their own kind.
Posted by: Sounder at March 29, 2008 4:58 PM
I wonder how it is supposed to change. This is the only way to combat this ideology. To criticize it for what it is: a violent, oppressive and barbaric ideology. We attack it by telling the truth and as much as our foolish leaders want to whitewash and cover up this brutal, bigoted, racist and deceleration of war principles of Islam on all free peoples of the world, the truth will win. Has to because I would certainly would not want to see democratic and free societies become like the violent chaotic and totalitarian regimes of the UMMAH. There is never peace with Islam!
Posted by: savsiv at March 29, 2008 5:08 PM
The AP can denigrate Geert Wilders all it wants by calling his political party reactionary, but that still doesn't detract from the truth of his movie. The Nazis may have contemptuously dismissed "Jewish physics", but the Jewish physicists on the Manhattan project nuked their imperial allies. Reality bites.
Posted by: jewdog at March 29, 2008 5:09 PM
You have to see this. Moslem men just can't control their lust, although they have "noble intentions"
/spit
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29431_Video-_Sharia_Expert_Defends_Child_Marriage#comments
at March 29, 2008 5:17 PM
I know I will be criticized for this because most jihadwatch readers are George W. Bush supporters and admirers.
Little doubt Mr. Bush and Dr. Rice are relieved Fitna was removed from at least one web site. Little doubt the White House is working through back channels to suppress this kind of hate speech.
After all, Islam is peace according to Bush. Muslim mothers in "Palestine" want the same things for their children as Jewish mothers want for their children. Fitna can only serve to stymie the peace process, Condolezza Rice was reported as saying in behalf of her boss, President George W. Bush. "We are on the road to peace in the Middle East," Bush told reporters. "Fitna only hampers these noble efforts. Fitna only serves to sow hate and division between the vast majority of our Muslims worldwide and non-Muslims. "
This is irony and satire on my part but is it inconsistent with this U.S. president whom most Jihadwatch readers love and admire?
After all, who said the following? "The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Islam brings hope and comfort to millions of people in my country, and to more than a billion people worldwide. Some of the comments that have been uttered about Islam do not reflect the sentiments of my government or the sentiments of most Americans. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others."
Posted by: monk at March 29, 2008 5:22 PM
Mr Wilders should just trot out about 10 of the most heinous jihadi death porn videos from YouTube in reply to all the cringing dhimmi responses to Fitna. We all know they'll contain exactly the same things: quotes from the koran and mohammed intermingled with scenes of violence brought upon Infidels at the hands of Muslims.
And then he should ask them all why everyone - especially Islamic countries - is so opposed to it when it's packaged and presented by an Infidel, but offer silent acceptance about it when it's packaged and presented by jihadis. Why is it an insult to Islam only when an brought to light by an Infidel? Why is it not offensive to Islam when it's the mujahadeen or whatever?
And then he should direct EVERYONE'S attention to the Koranic quotes, because I have yet to hear even ONE MSM article or talking head mention it. He should pointedly state that what's honestly offensive here is Islam's holy book calling for open ended war against non-Muslims, the derogatory terms used for non-Muslims, the repeated statements that non-Muslims are going to hell, etc.
We all know that Muslims are freaking out because the light is finally beginning to be shined on their violent 'religion' and Infidels are finally getting a clue that this is about Islamic world domination and supremacy. Muslims are afraid because it's too early for the Infidel to understand these nuances. Their hand is being tipped far too early in the game; they have yet to reach critical mass in most all Western countries in order to democratically bring about Sharia law there. They are in serious danger of their jig being up, and they know it, and they are afraid and angry because of it.
However, despite Infidels FINALLY (finally!!) coming to understand about what Islam is really all about, I still believe that our colonial guilt combined with the sickness of moral relativity and multiculturalism will not prevent the continued onslaught of Islam into our civilization. I fear the name of the game will continue to be accomodation and disproportionate tolerance on our part until there is another act of terror akin to 9/11. And I also fear it will have to happen to America, because it's obvious that the Europeans are not interested in defending themselves or their culture. They attack America again, and that's IT; the gloves will come off and we'll FINALLY begin to actually fight the war that Islam started with us.
Posted by: JenBee at March 29, 2008 5:29 PM
No, monk, you've got us wrong. Spend some time on this site and you'll see - we're hardly a bunch of Bush cheerleaders. Most of the JW'ers are a sophisticated bunch who know how to think for themselves and don't carry water for anybody.
Posted by: jewdog at March 29, 2008 5:31 PM
Foreigners will be attacked...
you mean like this?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7d_1206776737
Kind of puts Charlie "the idiot" Sheen in his place, no?
Posted by: No More Ham, Ed at March 29, 2008 5:35 PM
Hi I have these stats, with the original in context message when it came out from Team Infidel,, afew weeks ago,,
it cites the book, these figures are derived from,,,
>>>>>>
The following analysis of how Islam progresses within a culture came to us via email over the weekend. While we have not yet read Peter Hammond’s new book, Slavery, Terrorism and Islam, the following is reportedly adapted from
his book.
Irrespective of the source of this analysis, its conclusions are historically and empirically supported. As George Santayana wrote: "Those
who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Regarding Islam, we don’t have to look back hundreds of years to learn from history. All we need do is look at what has happened in Great Britain over the past three
decades.
________________________________________________________________
Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.
Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.
Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called "religious rights."
When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to "the reasonable" Muslim demands for their "religious rights," they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).
As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone.
In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:
United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%
At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street
gangs:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with
threats for failure to comply. (United States).
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris -- car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam -- Mohammed cartoons).
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%
After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and
ongoing militia warfare:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%
From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%
After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of "Dar-es-Salaam" -- the Islamic House of
Peace -- there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%
Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then
start killing each other for a variety of reasons.
"Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, "The Haj"
It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they
exercise more power than their national average would indicate.
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.
www.frontline.org.za/books_videos/sti.htm
at March 29, 2008 5:37 PM
monk, no problem, Bush is stronger on security than the moonbats, that's about all. Lesser of two evils so to speak. I don't think anyone here will disagree that he is a dhimwit and Rice is dhimmer.
Posted by: Sounder at March 29, 2008 5:38 PM
No monk, it is Islam that has divided the world, it is Islam that has caused chaos and death and I doubt it brings hope to the billions of people you are talking about. It is definitely not peace because every Muslim country you see there blood shed, violence and war. Constant war. You can speak for yourself if that is what you believe but as far as the facts are concerned the truth is self evident.
Posted by: savsiv at March 29, 2008 5:59 PM
Posted by: jewdog at March 29, 2008 5:09 PM
The AP can denigrate Geert Wilders all it wants by calling his political party reactionary, but that still doesn't detract from the truth of his movie. The Nazis may have contemptuously dismissed "Jewish physics", but the Jewish physicists on the Manhattan project nuked their imperial allies. Reality bites.
Yup, and sometimes when it isn't fed properly, as we see nowdays, it comes back to bite really hard.
I'd say reality is being starved in this fool's mind:
"Blasphemous Drawings to Herald World War III"
You'll be sorry (if you're not turned to plasma). Get a grip. You're starting your own worst nightmare. How stupid is it to end your 'civilization' over a cartoon?
Posted by: RalphInfidel at March 29, 2008 6:02 PM
Lets see now all Geert Wilders did was put up a big mirror so Islam could see itself. I guess they don't want to be reminded about their behavior so they turn on the guy who is holding the mirror. Actually probably less than 2 percent of these ranters even saw this video of themselves and want to start WWIII over it.
Posted by: Mackie at March 29, 2008 6:18 PM
Hey Pakiland.. PLEASE break off relations with the USA too!
We could sorey use those $5-$10BN we send you every year here at home..
PLEASE break off relations.
Thank you for your co-operation paks.
Posted by: Allah Schmallah at March 29, 2008 6:25 PM
"this U.S. president whom most Jihadwatchers love and admire..."
-- from a posting above
You have confused this website with another.
The policy of this Administration in Iraq has received no criticism as deadly and unanswerable as the criticism it has received here. The policy of this Administration in its attempt to win Muslim "hearts and minds" has received no criticism as deadly and unanswerable as the criticism it has received here.
Repeat the sentnece, merely varying the phrase after "Administration" and resuming the original at "has received no criticism."
Posted by: Hugh at March 29, 2008 6:26 PM
PersonOfTheBook:
"Looking at the percentages, and what muslims do as their population numbers increase, kind of makes you think it's all planned."
You know I've had the same thought. It's like they are using the same tactic in every country they enter. But then again, the fundamentals of Islam are the same nomatter where they go in the world, so it's what can be expected... chilling
Beagle:
"Great job! I've been thinking along those lines for years, but you've organized it very well"
Thanks, well I didn't organized it myself, it's a quote from the book mentioned above. I just thought it was so poignant that it should be posted here.
Posted by: seville844 at March 29, 2008 6:37 PM
100% will usher in the peace of "Dar-es-Salaam" -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim: Afghanistan -- Muslim 100% Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100% Somalia -- Muslim 100% Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%
Posted by: seville844
What's wrong with this picture? Where is that illusive Islamic peace they keep talking about? It's as illusive as those moderate Muslims we keep talking about.
Scary statistics. The tipping point starts at about 10%, and they multiply through four wives with high birth rates. Europe is on a slippery slope, France first. The only viable solution is intense secular reeducation, with deportation en mass all who resist. Let them riot all their hatred all they want, but not here. The strategic difficulty of using military action against Islamism is removed once they are removed, and concentrated in their own countries. Then divide and conquer if they persist. That makes it easy.
Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at March 29, 2008 6:49 PM
"A militant believed linked to al-Qaida's deputy chief Ayman al-Zawahri told The Associated Press in the northwestern city of Peshawar last week militants would mount revenge attacks against foreigners because of Wilders' film."
C'mon, fellers. Leave "foreigners" out of it. Fight fire with fire instead. Produce a film that links Christian violence to passages from the New Testament that command the same. OK?
at March 29, 2008 7:09 PM
Hugh wrote: "You have confused this website with another."
Sorry Hugh. You do not speak for the vast majority of conservatives. You speak for yourself and perhaps for one or two others only.
Your member, Sounder speaks for Jihadwatch and for the vast majority of conservatives.
Sounder wrote: "monk, no problem, Bush is stronger on security than the moonbats..."
There you have it Hugh. Thus says Jihadwatch, "Bush is stronger on security than the moonbats."
GOD BLESS THE CRAWFORD, TEXAS KING.
Posted by: monk at March 29, 2008 7:12 PM
It's my quess that if Wilders just flashed some choice murderous verses from the Qu'arn and Adieth accross the screen, without any images or interpretation, these morons would still have branded the film blasphemous. It would be interesting to give that a try sometime. That way we could watch as they brand Allah and Mohammed blasphemers.
Posted by: rational
It's all taken "out of context", dontchu know? In Islam words do not mean what they say to you... only to themselves. They know what it means, you're not supposed to. Too bad. We know.
Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at March 29, 2008 7:12 PM
"Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others." ~ George "Jesus is my favorite philosopher" Bush
As a member of an even vaster majority of people who don't practice Islam, and have no intention of doing so, I protest.
Posted by: Lex at March 29, 2008 7:18 PM
Regarding the first comment by Seville844...
From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply.
No threats necessary when Walmart, the global retailer, thinks local.
They're already here......
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/detroit-wal-mart-woos-areas-arabs/20080316111109990001
Posted by: UpLeftUSA at March 29, 2008 7:20 PM
Hugh, I've seen Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, David Horowitz, Rush Limbaugh, Robert Spencer, Charles Krauthammer, etc., stand solidly by this appeaser of our jihadists enemies only to be left with John McCain. Show me an article from any of these people utterly condemning this appeaser of the jihadists.
George W. Bush is with America's enemies and he has heard no criticism from the right. None.
The conservative movement here in America is derelict and corrupt. Admit it. This is why we are in the abysmal situation we are in.
Posted by: monk at March 29, 2008 7:24 PM
Monk,
I am a political conservative. I share your views of GWB, and I had the hat, the shirt, the pin, and the yard sign. Do not confuse the fawning, opportunistic shills and career sycophants with staunch, conservative ideologues. They say whatever gets them paid each week. Fortunately, even some of them gag on the Official Position occasionally (e.g. Dubai ports deal).
Politics sucks. Had anybody been worth voting for we would have had a better primary outcome. I just hope McCain has forgotten about all of those scathing letters I sent back in his senatorial franking privilege return envelopes. Maybe he'll pick a great conservative VP, get elected, and have a coronary. There's always hope.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at March 29, 2008 7:40 PM
I think people have to be exposed to the media materials regarding islamisation of the west. If the official media holds back, fears threats and rating drops, the net could be a great alternative.
After posting the link to "Fitna" with russian subtitles yesterday, I see there were 200 downloads till now, and numbers grow as I write this comment. Maybe we (people who object islamisation) really should be active in propaganda... Maybe it will really help people to understand whats going on out there.
I am still optimistic :)
at March 29, 2008 7:41 PM
"...saying it insults the Quran." --from article.
Insult the Qur'an! It deserves to be insulted!
Insult away!
at March 29, 2008 7:41 PM
Hugh, I've seen Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, David Horowitz, Rush Limbaugh, Robert Spencer, Charles Krauthammer, etc., stand solidly by this appeaser of our jihadists enemies only to be left with John McCain. - Monk
No, not Robert Spencer. Search the site for "Wilsonian adventure," for starters.
Posted by: MarisolJW at March 29, 2008 7:45 PM
GOD BLESS THE CRAWFORD, TEXAS KING.
Posted by: monk at March 29, 2008 7:12 PM
Excuse me? Bush calls evil Islam the "religion of peace." He's no "king." He's a dhimmi imbecile. He should have retaliated on September 12. Imbecile.
at March 29, 2008 7:46 PM
>>The policy of this Administration in its attempt to win Muslim "hearts and minds" has received no criticism as deadly and unanswerable as the criticism it has received here. --Hugh.
Really. Especially as the Qur'an dictates that its followers have no hearts and minds. No hearts and minds whatsoever. Only Zombies follow Islam.
at March 29, 2008 7:51 PM
Vladzakr prompts a thought. Has Fitna been released with Klingon subtitles yet? Get the trekkies on board, and why the hell not? They will not submit to the IslamoBorg collective.
Concerned Citizen, I'll vote for McCain in spite of McCain-Feingold, because anyone would be better than the Obama/Clinton scourge, but who would be McCain's veep?
at March 29, 2008 7:53 PM
>>because anyone would be better than the Obama/Clinton scourge" --Lex
Oh yeah. Especially the Muslim-Sympathizer, Hussein Obama, with MANY Muslim relatives, including his father and uncle.
Posted by: darcy at March 29, 2008 7:57 PM
" It (the movie) set verses of the Quran, Islam's Holy Book, against a background of images from terrorist attacks.." Yes, and by heaven that is exactly where those images belong. We should taunt muslims, mercilessly, goad them with images which enrage them and strike them where they are weakest.Their self esteem or rather inferiority complex needs to be exploited to the maximum. Insult them and their half baked prophet as often as possible. They then lose their composure and expose themselves as the nutburgers that they are. JW is a great place to do this but it is only one place. Encourage Europeans to fight back whenever you meet them and whenever you can.
As one of our fellows pointed out here, insulting one's enemies is a time honored tradition and it should be exercised as often as possible. Encourage them to misbehave and things will get better with the western backlash..without that these savages will take over.
at March 29, 2008 8:33 PM
"A militant believed linked to al-Qaida's deputy chief Ayman al-Zawahri told The Associated Press in the northwestern city of Peshawar last week militants would mount revenge attacks against foreigners because of Wilders' film."
WHAT,I ASK, ARE THE CHANCES The Associated Press reporter later informed authorities about this terrorist, excuse me, "militant"?
Hey AP, does he, the "militant" have a name? Oh, I forgot...you have a Don't ask/Don't tell policy. And Yo, AP boys and girls can you spell terrorist? That's right: t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-t. Now be a good little reporter and go look it up.
P.S. Thanks to all here who provided stats and links. Very informative. Good work!
at March 29, 2008 9:12 PM
Jerusalem Post's response is interesting. In their online version they reprint verbatim a cravenly dhimmified AP article which is an insult to Wilders, to their own paper and to their readers - but then slap bang in the middle of that they provide a link to the film....
(I wonder whether the New York Times online, or the online versions of other MSM outfits, have done as much?)
And word to Lex - a Klingon translation actually would be worth a try- get all those Trekkies to cotton on to the fact that we face, in real life, something that truly does in many ways resemble the Borg.
Now to also convince all those folks who are into classic fantasy lit to see the eerie real-life parallels with Voldemort and the Death Eaters, or Tolkien's Sauron and his armies of darkness (remember: Tolkien makes it plain that the evil orcs originated from beautiful, civilised, life-loving elves who were enslaved by the Dark Lord and then corrupted and destroyed - just as the murderous jihadis in Egypt, Persia, Afghanistan or Pakistan descend from people who were originally Christians, or Buddhists, or Hindus, or Zoroastrians or, even, Jews). There are millions of Rowlings fans and Tolkien fans out there, longing for the chance to be like their beloved fictional heroes...unawares that very soon, in real life, they may have to do just that, playing for keeps.
Think of the Danes and the Dutch as hobbits. Wilders is one of the Bucklanders, in Lord of the Rings Book 1 Chapter 11:
"At that moment, among the trees nearby, a horn rang out. It rent the night like fire on a hilltop.
"AWAKE! FEAR! FIRE! FOES! AWAKE!
"Fatty Bolger had not been idle. As soon as he saw the dark shapes creep from the garden he knew that he must run for it or perish. And run he did...when he reached the nearest house, more than a mile away, he collapsed on the doorstep...It was some time before anyone could make out what he was babbling about. At last they got the idea that enemies were in Buckland...And then they lost no more time.
FEAR! FIRE! FOES!
"The Brandybucks were blowing the Horn-call of Buckland, that had not been sounded for a hundred years...
AWAKE! AWAKE!
"Far away, answering horns were heard. The alarm was spreading."
And it is. It is.
at March 29, 2008 9:12 PM
a Klingon translation actually would be worth a try
Hmm....
Qapla-hu akbar?
Posted by: MarisolJW at March 29, 2008 9:26 PM
Oh, and just for fun I've rewritten the two news items as they might have appeared, had our media been somewhat less confunded.
"Film exposing Qur’an sparks protests in Muslim world," from CNN-IBN:
'New Delhi: Muslims in several countries are protesting a film by a Dutch lawmaker's film, saying it insults the Quran.
Hundreds of Islamists staged angry protests across Pakistan after the release of the film and a jihadi allegedly linked to al-Qaida's No 2 leader also warned that Muslims will attack non-Muslims in response to the film.
'Small groups of demonstrators, mostly members of revivalist Muslim groups, rallied in major cities, demanding Pakistan cut diplomatic relations with the Netherlands. A banner at one demonstration read, "We hate the uncivilized West."
'The book has verses from the Quran and video clips of Imams preaching from them, against a background of graphic images of violence practised by Muslims against non-Muslims, gays and women.
'These include clips of the 9/11 attacks in the US and the 2004 Madrid train bombings, and footage of gays being hung in Iran. 'The film starts and ends with Kurt Westergaard’s powerful cartoon image of the ‘prophet’ Mohammed.
'Angry Muslims in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia and several European countries took out protest rallies against the film and the Pakistan government said the film deeply offended the sentiments of Muslims all over the world.
'The European Union too has made critical observations on the film. But it was defended by Salman Rushdie, who was himself violently threatened by many angry Muslim leaders after he published his book Satanic Verses."
AP adds:
'The 15-minute film by Geert Wilders, leader of a Dutch political party and sitting member of the Dutch parliament, was posted on a Web site yesterday. It sets verses of the Quran, Islam's holy book, against a background of images mostly showing jihad attacks but also showing abuse of gays and women within the Islamosphere.
'Pakistan's government condemned the " defamatory film, which deeply offended the sentiments of Muslims all over the world." It summoned the Dutch ambassador to lodge a " strong protest."
Protests have been simmering for weeks over the recent republication in Danish newspapers of cartoons of Mohammed, whom Muslims revere as a prophet, and authorities are concerned the Dutch film could spark the kind of open violence with which Muslims responded to the cartoons two years ago.
'A jihadi believed to be linked to al-Qaida's deputy chief Ayman al-Zawahri told The Associated Press in the northwestern city of Peshawar last week jihadis would mount revenge attacks against foreigners [i.e. non-Muslims] because of Wilders' film.
"Foreigners [sic] will be attacked. The situation will change, change, change," said Qari Mohammed Yusuf, whose also said his two brothers died fighting alongside al-Zawahri."
Now: how does THAT sound?
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at March 29, 2008 9:36 PM
Funny...Let's go commit some violence to protest of a film showing our penchant for committing violence...They're a bunch of loons!
Posted by: Yaupon at March 29, 2008 10:58 PM
We hate the uncivilized West.
it's kind of funny the uncivilized actions are the by the ones called Muslims and they dare to call us uncivilized where a lot a Muslim countries are still living a very primitive lifestyle and barely able to feed themselves
at March 29, 2008 11:16 PM
Yaupon that's what I came here to say...
"If you say we're violent WE'LL KILL YOU"
Then again there's many (in the US) that actively support that the US deserves the terrorist attacks it's received.
at March 29, 2008 11:30 PM
dumbledoresarmy...Geez you sound like an actual unbiased journalist. Wouldn't it be refreshing to read actual reporting like that. You've shown just how biased the media actually is with that little bit. Bravo. Applause. Great job. One can hope that at least when they finally manage to nuke NY that ground zero is the NYT. Or the CNN building in Atlanta. THAT would be a silver lining in a mushroom cloud. Hahaha. Islam sucks. And yes I'm a proud Islamophobe. Whatever race that is. Man I'm so sick of hearing "Stop talking about Islam being a violent religion or we'll kill you". What a brain dead ignorant group of people. Death to Islam.
Posted by: Rick at March 30, 2008 12:46 AM
Ran into the following statement at one of the morally relativistic blogs the other day:
"“One can’t describe a religion that is over a millenium old in 15 mins, nor can one ascribe to it all of the things Wilder claims.”
To which I responded:
Sure you can. Let’s see. A guy named Muhammad who’d been introduced to Judaism and Christianity in his travels, decided he wanted power and land. So he used what he’d learned about the other religions to create Islam. In this new ideology, he created hate for Judaism and Christianity in order to have a reason for his army to fight them. He made himself more powerful than Jesus and told everyone that he, himself, was the last prophet. He sent his armies out to take all the lands from the Christians and Jews.
And the legacy goes on. And on. And on.
Posted by: Connie at March 30, 2008 2:08 AM
I wrote: "Hugh, I've seen Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, David Horowitz, Rush Limbaugh, Robert Spencer, Charles Krauthammer, etc., stand solidly by this appeaser of our jihadists enemies. Now what do we have? John McCain.
MarisolJW, you wrote: Monk, No, not Robert Spencer. Search the site for "Wilsonian adventure," for starters."
MarisolJW, name one prominent conservative writer, author, journalist, activist, talk show host, etc., including Mr. Spencer, that has warned Israel and her leaders, she has (we have) an enemy in the White House in the form of George W. Bush? Name one. Just one. George W. Bush is with the jihadists. That is a fact.
You can't name one, because he does not exist.
Thus, I am inclined to vote for the Muslim candidate this November. Maybe if we have a Muslim president in the White House, one, maybe one prominent conservative here in America will find his or her voice and warn the Jews and the Israelis: "We have an enemy in the White House!"
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 8:34 AM
Condoleezza Rice today in Jerusalem:
Rice: "There ought to be a shared responsibility here for an atmosphere and a reality that can lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state based on security for Israel and Palestinians alike and economic viability for Palestinians," she said.
Dr. Rice and George W. Bush are on the side of these jihadist murderers. These are killers whom Rice and Bush give succor to. These two are criminals. They should both be arrested and tried for their crimes.
Rice and Bush are with America's enemies in time of war. These two are giving aid and comfort to our enemies.
What do contributors on Jihadwatch call this behavior. Does anyone know what it means when a president gives aid and comfort to our enemies?
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 8:42 AM
Is it any wonder why all these Islamic Country's get to see this Film and express their commentary. While we in the West do not and have to wonder what all the fuss is about.
The Press nailed President Bush to a Cross when he used the word "Crusade" in a speech shortly after 9/11. From that day forward the Press and the Demoncratic party have been poking him with Spears.
Under those circumstances, was it ever realistically possible for The President to declare Islam the scourge of the World?
I see the President doing the best that he, himself, can do, given the conditions he if framed within.
I see the President is doing more to highlight the fissures within Islam than any other administration.
Just look at the harmony at the recent pow wow in Damascus.
The timetable for peace between Palestine and Israel is classic. Telling Israel it will be taking it up the backside for 08 in return for a free hand in 09.
As painful as listening to the Administration is. Activities on the ground sure seem to run counter to its expressions.
2008/9, the year of the Islamic version of the Tet Offensive. The Islamics have made no bones about their support for the Demoncratic party. How long can they hold out before they need to come to its rescue? The Demoncrats are looking like the Iraqi Government. Totalitarians, all at odds with one another. Only the Demoncrats do not believe in Guns, yet.
Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 30, 2008 9:29 AM
"A banner at one demonstration read, "We hate the uncivilized West." -from above article.
LOL! As usual, everything is backwards (no pun intended!) in their ridiculous statements!
Newsflash Barbarians - it's YOU who are the "uncivilized!"
at March 30, 2008 9:37 AM
This is not a crusade. U.S. is not trying to recover territory lost to Islam. But so what? Many U.S. leaders have used ill-advised language and recuperated. So could Bush.
You are excusing this man's wrong-doing (even evil-doing) because the press and the DNC poked fun at him for his intemperate remarks?
When only days following the September 11, 2001 terror atrocities, Mr. Bush unveiled his vision of a Palestinian terrorist-killer state in the Holy Land, I knew we had a traitor in the White House.
That you and others did not realize Mr. Bush is a traitor is indeed troubling, is it not? How can you defend the indefensible?
Is is mere rumor that the Bush White House authorized flights -- for several dozen members of the bin Laden family and the Saudi Royal family -- out of the US only hours after the 9/11 attacks? This at a time when all domestic flights were prohibited by FAA?
http://web.archive.org/web/20011108145853/http://www.tampatrib.com/MGA3F78EFSC.html
Did Mr. Bush authorize these flights while thousands of his citizens lay dead beneath the smouldering ruins of the Trade Center towers?
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 9:58 AM
Well Monk. I think the President knew full well the Political ramifications had the American People actually laid hands on the Saudi Royal Family.
You make this point frequently within its own vacuum. If I were a Saudi, and my family were harmed, the first thing I would have done was turn off the Oil spicket. Handing Osama victory overnight.
How would such an outcome have helped Israel with its Neighbors?
Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 30, 2008 10:24 AM
Well Monk. I think the President knew full well the Political ramifications had the American People actually laid hands on the Saudi Royal Family.
You make this point frequently within its own vacuum. If I were a Saudi, and my family were harmed, the first thing I would have done was turn off the Oil spicket. Handing Osama victory overnight.
How would such an outcome have helped Israel with its Neighbors?
Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 30, 2008 10:58 AM
flowerknife, I notice you ignored my first and more important point:
"When only days following the September 11, 2001 terror atrocities, Mr. Bush unveiled his vision of a Palestinian terrorist-killer state in the Holy Land, I knew we had a traitor in the White House."
George W. Bush's romance with our Saudi enemies is secondary to this disreputable betrayal of every moral principle, though it is directly related.
It was Mr. Bush's Saudi friends that demanded he move on the Palestinian issue. That was late August 2001, only days before Al Qaeda, a Saudi proxy, attacked America's mainland, killing thousands. Days after these atrocities, Mr. Bush announced his vision in conformity with the pledge he had given Saudi Arabia's crown prince.
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 11:10 AM
Were are talking about people who potentially had knowledge of bin Laden's whereabouts.
Police murder investigations routinely begin with the interrogation of family members.
Many of these who were summarily escorted out of the U.S. were members of Osama bin Laden's family. Little doubt, FBI did not have time to do a thorough investigation.
Though bin Laden family members claim they lost contact with their brother, son, nephew, etc., this claim is at best dubious. There is indication some family members have indeed made contact with the mass-murderer.
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 11:21 AM
monk,
I'm with you. There are way too many unanswered questions and convenient coincidences connected to 9/11.
People are afraid to know the truth about anything bad or depressing. They'd rather hear about out of control bimbos, and watch "reality TV" shows about aging rock stars and assorted trailer trash. It's all part of the "dumbing down" of the western population.
at March 30, 2008 11:35 AM
ImNoDhimmi, Mr. Bush redacted some 27 pages of the 9/11 report; pages many who were privy, thought went pretty easy on the Saudis for their complicity in these atrocities. To me this is stunning. It's criminal that Bush would place Saudi jihadist sensitivities before the lives of innocent Americans that were murdered in large part due to Saudi (charity) funding and Saudi Wahhabi "ideology." An ideology which I happen to believe to be authentic Islam.
These killers are George W. Bush and his father's good freinds, from Prince Bandar (his wife Haifa helped the hijackers financially) to King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz. Bush is tight with these ruthless killers and haters.
This is our president.
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 1:29 PM
So, Monk. When Bushes policy of dancing to the Saudi tune fails of it's own accord. Is that a victory for Israel or a defeat? You see no positive outcome possible from the Presidents "deal" that will never be consummated?
In the context of 9/11, Anthrax,and Snipers. Would adding the abrupt end of Middle East oil have helped or hindered us. Would the operations of our Military Forces in these Country's been helped or hindered.
Churchill let Coventry get carpet bombed by the Germans just to maintain a secret. Is Churchill a Hero or a War Criminal? Was his decision right or wrong?
Had the supply of Oil been cut off. Our effort to even go to Afcrapistan would have run out of gas before General Franks plans were even put on paper.
Posted by: flowerknife_us
at March 30, 2008 2:42 PM
flowerknife, what you appear to be saying is Bush is doing the best he can with a bad situation. The Arabs have Americans by our private parts, so to speak. Why didn't Bush simply say this in his September 20, 2001 speech before a joint session of Congress and the American people?
"It's hopeless. They have us by our private parts. If we have to sacrifice Israel for oil, so be it."
I prefer honesty. Don't you?
In other words according to your compass, a great nation like America must take an immoral, even evil course of action in order to protect her own self-interests; even if it means abandoning an ally. If it costs thousands of innocent lives, so be it. This is professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt's argument in their book "The Israel Lobby." America's national interest -- "prosperity" for instance -- should trump moral imperative. If the Jews stand in the way of the 'good life' jettison the Jews.
After all, the ends justify the means.
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 3:23 PM
monk
"Is is mere rumor that the Bush White House authorized flights -- for several dozen members of the bin Laden family and the Saudi Royal family -- out of the US only hours after the 9/11 attacks? This at a time when all domestic flights were prohibited by FAA?"
Why yes it is mere "rumor" as you put it. Do a search for yourself. That particular lie was put to rest along with the rest of the conspiracy theorists nutjobs lies and distortions regarding 9/11. Look for debunking 9/11. I'm sure, that if you choose to, you can find the same information that I did. If you don't choose to, that is if you prefer to think that we attacked ourselves on 9/11, or that President Bush orchestrated the attack, then we have nothing more to say to one another...ON THIS SUBJECT, and only this subject.
I want to make clear that I see you as an ally in this fight. We'll have to stick to defeating Islam by revealing the truth about it. I won't waste time debating whether or not America attacked itself on 9/11.
I know from your posts that you're no nutjob, and that your thoughts are your own...
I would trust you to watch my 6 in battle...Okay? (I just pray you're a good shot.)
Bush aint evil, he's just incredibly piss poorly informed as so damn very many in our government are.
The truth will slap him and others in the face eventually. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later. It amazes me how may people I know with genius level IQs, that can't understand the threat that Islam presents to the free world. Bush aint a genius for sure, but I don't see him as a total moron or purposefully evil either. However, that doesn't preclude evil things coming from his ignorance.
Defend him? No. I defend the office of the President of the United States in a time of war. He is, for good or bad, the Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces at this time... I say again...a time of war.
Calling the President any of the many names I've heard/read him called, or accusing him of being a traitor does not serve our cause. It does in fact, raise up the fighting spirit of our enemies, who delight in citizens of the US agreeing with them regarding their view of our President.
Making our enemies happy by attacking the President,...does that not give them aid and comfort? And in what way does it serve our cause?
I know I've said all this before and I'll prolly hear the same reasons why I'm wrong...but, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Sigh....
at March 30, 2008 3:51 PM
Seviille, thanks for your post. Where did you get your figures? I would like to use them in a presentation on Islam and would like to check their veracity. No offense! It is just "Seville, Internet user" doesn't constitute a reputable source! Thanks again.
Posted by: former liberal WF
Those figures come from Dr Peter Hammond
Frontline Fellowship South Africa
http://www.frontline.org.za/articles.htm
http://www.frontline.org.za/about_director.htm
Posted by: Dsinc at March 30, 2008 4:05 PM
Seville844 ...give credit when credit is due....
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.
at March 30, 2008 4:12 PM
Alaskan and Monk,
Sorry to burst your bubble on this infamous "rumor":
"Is is mere rumor that the Bush White House authorized flights -- for several dozen members of the bin Laden family and the Saudi Royal family -- out of the US only hours after the 9/11 attacks? This at a time when all domestic flights were prohibited by FAA?"Why yes it is mere "rumor" as you put it. Do a search for yourself. That particular lie was put to rest along with the rest of the conspiracy theorists nutjobs lies and distortions regarding 9/11. Look for debunking 9/11. I'm sure, that if you choose to, you can find the same information that I did. If you don't choose to, that is if you prefer to think that we attacked ourselves on 9/11, or that President Bush orchestrated the attack, then we have nothing more to say to one another...ON THIS SUBJECT, and only this subject.
These charters did happen. Who authorized and paid for them is still a mystery.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4014-2004Jul21.html
at March 30, 2008 4:20 PM
Alaskan wrote:
"Bush aint evil, he's just incredibly piss poorly informed as so damn very many in our government are.
"The truth will slap him and others in the face eventually. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later. It amazes me how may people I know with genius level IQs, that can't understand the threat that Islam presents to the free world. Bush aint a genius for sure, but I don't see him as a total moron or purposefully evil either. However, that doesn't preclude evil things coming from his ignorance."
I suppose it's also out of ignorance that bush leaves our southern border largely unguarded despite the fact that, to use his words, we're fighting a war on terror. No. It's hard to chalk that one up to ignorance. Or do you subscribe to the theory that flowerknife might advance: mexico has us over a barrel just like the saudis. And to think that I thought we were the most powerful country in the world, when in reality we're just at every other country's mercy.
Here you go, flowerknife: If the saudis ever threaten to cut off the flow of oil to the West, our message should be loud & clear: We will hunt down & kill every single member of the saudi royal family, & then we'll take all of your remaining oil without paying you a cent. Instead, a few weeks ago bush made a pathetic display of groveling by pleading -- to no avail, I might add -- to the saudis to pump more oil & drive the price down a bit. of course, they smiled, kissed him on the cheek . . . and did nothing.
Posted by: sheik yer booty at March 30, 2008 4:27 PM
""We hate the uncivilized West."
Talk about who is "uncivilized", please protestors, take a good look in the mirror.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at March 30, 2008 4:32 PM
Alaskan, let me take these one at a time. You wrote: "Bush aint evil, he's just incredibly piss poorly informed as so damn very many in our government are.....Defend him? No. I defend the office of the President of the United States in a time of war. He is, for good or bad, the Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces at this time... I say again...a time of war."
Let's leave aside my point about the so-called rumor of the "great escape" for now. Let's return to Israel, for this is a topic I have a certain comfort level discussing. You say Bush isn't evil. I'm not a Christian. Robert Spencer is, as are many on this forum. Didn't the Christians savior say:
Luk 6:44 "For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.
"The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil...."
I guess evil is a matter of perception. Bush speaks evil about our enemies and he does evil to my friends in Israel. George W. Bush's fruit is rotten and evil. Thus to me Mr. Bush is evil. Ignorance is not a justification for evil. Bush is neither ignorant nor stupid. He is deliberately doing evil to my friends in Israel.
Alaskan wrote: "Calling the President any of the many names I've heard/read him called, or accusing him of being a traitor does not serve our cause. It does in fact, raise up the fighting spirit of our enemies, who delight in citizens of the US agreeing with them regarding their view of our President."
Quite honestly Alaskan, I'm not all that concerned about our enemies. I'm not all that concerned about the loony left. I am concerned about the right because I am on the right. When I see a traitor to our cause on my side -- on the right -- I am going to call him out and expose him to the best of my ability. Why shouldn't I? Do you advocate silence in the face of evil because it might raise up the fighting spirit of our enemies?
You wrote: "Making our enemies happy by attacking the President,...does that not give them aid and comfort? And in what way does it serve our cause?
I know I've said all this before...."
Like I said, I am going to call it the way I see it. To me, George W. Bush is with my enemies.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is an arch-terrorist, Holocaust denier and Jew-hater. Do you disagree? Abbas was Yasser Arafat's right hand man. He is believed to have financed the Munich massacres in Germany at the German Olympic games.
"In his French-language autobiography, Palestine: From Jerusalem to Munich, Abu Daoud describes the role of Abu Mazen in providing the funds to carry out the Black September Olympic attack.
"After Oslo in 1993, Abu Mazen went to the White House Rose Garden for a photo op with Arafat, President Bill Clinton and Israel's Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres.
"Do you think that ... would have been possible if the Israelis had known that Abu Mazen was the financier of our operation?" Abu Daoud writes."
24 Adar Bet 5768, March 31, '08
PA Daily: Mass Murderer is a Martyr
by Gil Ronen
"Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's official daily newspaper has honored the terrorist who gunned down eight high school students at point blank range with the status of shahid, or holy Islamic martyr.
The March 8th edition of the official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida prominently placed a picture of the terrorist on the front page, with the caption, "The Shahid Alaa Abu Dheim." In a page one article on the massacre at the Mercaz HaRav Kook Yeshiva, his crime was again defined as an act of martyrdom (shahada)."
Bush is doing business with this jihadist murderer. Bush is trying to establish a 23rd Muslim jihadist state in the Middle East, right smack in Israel's heartland. Jihadists around the globe will celebrate George W. Bush and thank Allah for him and his work in their behalf!
Why should I worry about what my enemies think?
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 5:20 PM
"... Change, change, change." Hmm ...where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, I remember--that's the campaign slogan of one of the Presidential candidates! If he gets in office, he promises to change America's standing in the world; you know, achieve peace in our time--wouldn't that be just glorious?
What's that? You say you heard that before from someone else, and it brought on World War II? What, aren't we already fighting a coupla' wars now, anyway?
Nah, you gotta be wrong; we need to change our foreign policies so people like us around the world! And he's the man (no, I don't mean he's really, like, The Man) to bring us all together, in, what, a special kinda moment--no, no, not "Kumbayah," like that song in the old Coke commercials.
You think I'm silly or somethin'? Look, if we got together with our "enemies," as you call them, and just settled the score with 'em, I mean, level with 'em, I'm sure everything can be smoothed out; in time, made better. Isn't it time we tried to change things in the world, let 'em know we understand how they feel towards us, given all the stuff we've been doing to them all these years; reach out like the man himself did on race in this country?
Huh? You say I sound like a pale copy of the man? Yeah, well--I still say we need change in this country, and you sound just like that Liz Hasselbeck on The View!!
Posted by: John C at March 30, 2008 5:46 PM
boneshack,
Will you please address my comments to Alaskan above. Thanks.
at March 30, 2008 6:06 PM
Monk,
Respectfully, no. I'm not turning this into an open brawl.
I only made my comment (at 4.20pm) to dismiss the rumor of the "great escape." (That was funny!)
Posted by: boneshack at March 30, 2008 6:38 PM
boneshack, ok fine. Please copy and past the following link into your browser. You cannot click on it; it will not work.
I would like to read your opinion on this. It occured a few miles from my central Fla. home.
I don't know. You might be right. Please copy and paste, read this article. Thanks.
http://web.archive.org/web/20011108145853/http://www.tampatrib.com/MGA3F78EFSC.html
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 6:51 PM
Monk,
Sorry. The first one let nowhere. The second is about some baggage handlers arrested at TPA.
Is that what you meant? Sorry, just a bit confused here.
at March 30, 2008 6:58 PM
Please, I wrote "copy and paste" the entire link.
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 7:15 PM
Don't click on one half and then the other half.
Do you know how to copy and paste?
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 7:16 PM
boneshack, the bottom line is, you wrote: (you are) not turning this into an open brawl.
To me this means you are a "team player." You are with George W. Bush and the jihadists. Don't brawl. Simply go along to get along.
This is your choice. Thanks.
Posted by: monk at March 30, 2008 7:19 PM
Monk,
Thanks for the lecture in semantics and computing! For an article to buried so deep with such URL tom-foolery, speaks greatly on the veracity (truth) of the article.
To respond to your original request: Is is true? I don't know, and frankly I don't care.
As to this:
To me this means you are a "team player." You are with George W. Bush and the jihadists. Don't brawl. Simply go along to get along.
You are making a very dangerous and unqualified assumption about me.
at March 30, 2008 8:51 PM
Monk, I am not exactly sure what it is that Israel has lost because of Bush. A War? One Bush covered for in 06. A War Israel blinked on. Israel left Southern Lebanon to gain the moral high ground. When it was attacked again anyway, Israel failed to take full advantage of the opportunity. Seems to me the Saudis were really pretty quiet about it. American sympathy was with Israel. You should vent a little bit towards the Europeans. They were the ones who wanted the disproportional use of force to end.
Unfortunately, blending morality and political reality tends to make Smoothies with a few chunks of Ice, that sometimes plugs the straw.
What we have heard about the Saudis being hustled out of the country may all be well and true. But do we know what was said to them in the process?
In the absence of such knowledge. Let us at least indulge in a bit of wishful thinking. More than likely the comments I will describe would be of a private nature. Something Diplomats would find unwelcome in the public eye.
I like to think the President told the Saudis in no uncertain terms, that the days of playing with our Booze and Whores are over, and you cannot get out of the Country fast enough for me! By the way, I do not expect to see many of you again. When you get home, let the Family know that the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up a target list for 300 Cruse Missiles just in case you had plans to follow up on anything else some of your Countrymen may have in store.
War sure makes strange bedfellows.
Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 30, 2008 11:05 PM
Now, the truth is all coming out at the speed of light.
So they want an open world war III ? Ooooh yeah, that's at least one thing I tend to agree on with these extremists ! It's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when" it will happen.
Posted by: famas at March 31, 2008 3:47 AM
Defend him? No. I defend the office of the President of the United States in a time of war. He is, for good or bad, the Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces at this time... I say again...a time of war.
Posted by: Alaskan at March 30, 2008 3:51 PM
Alaskan,
While your intent is good, like many Americans, you are not 'up with it'. Start with daddy Bush. He started the first Gulf war, when Kuwait was invaded and when Saudi Arabia was next. The war ended when Kuwait was liberated and Saudi Arabia was safe. Do the math.
Dubya's history with Saudi money goes way back with Arbusto and Salim Bin Laden. Bush went AWOL from services, have never held a responsible job (outside politics) and "won" the eletion, 2001 in his brother's stare Florida. Do the math.
Right afteer 9/11,
- Bin Ladens were escorted to safety while all flights were grounded.
- References to Saudi Arabia were blanked-out from 9/11 Commission, interim report.
- Saudi Arabia, the father of international terror, appears on Bush's short list of allies (other being the mother of international terror, Pakistan).
- Saudi Arabia gets an 'increase (that's right, increase) of student's visas, after 9/11.
- Saudi Arabia gets financial and military 'aid'.
- Bush tip-toes around the term 'Islamofacist', right after Saudi Arabia express 'concern'.
Do the math.
Your president/commander-in-chief has still to lorge so much as a 'protest' at the 19 hijackers coming from the 'Islamic world', of which Saudi Arabia is the custodian. Hate to break it to you but Bush (your president/commander-in-chief) never cared for Americans (save, their votes). After that, the wealth/power lies with the wahhabbies and dubya better toe-their-line. HAve not yet mentioned Bush's extended family: Bandar Bush.
Wafa Sultan feels the same about the 'President of the United States', the 'Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces': http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52962
Posted by: Alert at March 31, 2008 7:54 AM
boneshack, you wrote: "You are making a very dangerous and unqualified assumption about me."
If I am mistaken, I apologize.
Today is not a time for neutrality. Everyone must take a stand and decide whose side he or she are on. Mr. Bush is with my enemies. All those who support Mr. Bush support my enemies. It is as simple as that.
Posted by: monk at March 31, 2008 1:24 PM
Alert: Well done!
Posted by: monk at March 31, 2008 1:28 PM
Bush seems not to be the Killer some claim, while not being the killer others would like. That Must be at the core of everyones dislike.
A major aspect of American Foreign policy has been the continuous flow of Oil to the Industrialized Country's. Especially the Western ones. I would suppose that we will have to deal with some of the unpleasantly the Politics thereof create.
Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 31, 2008 3:29 PM
Monk,
Apology accepted. I am a "team player" - a part of the team that will fight and defeat Islam in the West.
at March 31, 2008 5:01 PM
I am a "team player" - a part of the team that will fight and defeat Islam in the West.
Posted by: boneshack
I'll say! No one should ever doubt that about you!
Posted by: champ at March 31, 2008 6:41 PM
Champ,
Thanks! Our battle scars with that idiot "Saracen" and others speaks volumes.
Expect many more battles in the immediate future.
Peace to you and yours!
at March 31, 2008 9:42 PM
Thanks, Boneshack! Peace to you and yours as well!
Posted by: champ at March 31, 2008 10:55 PM
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