How many unIslamic countries are calling for a ban? (Not including dhimmi countries...)

Posted by: DJM at March 31, 2008 12:31 PM

"...but hurt feelings must never be an excuse for aggression and threats."

It would be nice to hear some Muslims in positions of authority reiterating this!

Posted by: margheri at March 31, 2008 12:33 PM

The only people who have any right to attack the movie are those people who have been defamed by it (if any) and those whose copyrighted works were used without permission. I don't know enough about the law to know if the fair use doctrine holds for the films used. I do think the artist who drew the prophet with the bomb/turban has a case.

As far as people being defamed. Mohammed is quite dead and you cannot defame the dead (at least in the US). Wilders doesn't make any judgements but lets the images speak for themselves. So, I don't see any defamation in conventional terms.

Posted by: Jerry M at March 31, 2008 12:38 PM

The search for truth implies a duty. One must not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true. --Albert Einstein

Posted by: The Cool Ghoul at March 31, 2008 12:39 PM

The internet doesn't exist in a country. Ban it anywhere you want, it's in the ether now. With the rest of the djinns, Fitna is just as hard to put back in the bottle.

Posted by: Whistling Dixie at March 31, 2008 12:39 PM

"...but hurt feelings must never be an excuse for aggression and threats."

Boy am I glad to hear that. Now I can sleep better at night.

Posted by: duh_swami at March 31, 2008 12:43 PM

The OIC's yapping in frustration about this "film" is really funny. It was released to the INTERNET, guys! The OIC appears to be as clueless about the implications of what this means as Hollywood has been about music file sharing. The Netherlands can no more "ban" this film than they can "ban" the head-chopping videos on the net. But if the former is "banned" will the latter also be "banned"? What do you think?

The dhimmi Dutch government can make life difficult for Wilders, however, and perhaps this is the real intent behind the OIC's actions. If Wilders can be visibly harrassed then the message will go out to other would-be video makers. Pure threats and intimidation. Wilders is fighting our fight and deserves all our support.

Posted by: Eastview at March 31, 2008 12:45 PM

Ban?! We don't need no stinkin' bans!

Posted by: tanstaafl at March 31, 2008 12:53 PM

Why can't these muslim ambassadors spend as much effort on condemning terrorism and radical islam?

Posted by: alaskan1000 at March 31, 2008 12:57 PM

Yea, what you guys said.

Posted by: undaunted at March 31, 2008 1:00 PM

Headline: "Islamic countries want Dutch to ban Wilders movie"
***
There are two ways to be fooled: One is to believe what isn't so; the other is to refuse to believe what is so. --Soren Kierkegaard

The truth is "hate speech" only to those who have something to hide.--Michael Rivero

Posted by: The Cool Ghoul at March 31, 2008 1:01 PM

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

Posted by: elbowroom at March 31, 2008 1:01 PM

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

Posted by: elbowroom at March 31, 2008 1:02 PM

26 bIslamic countries ask Pakistan to investigate Al Queda presence in Warizstan. Call for apprehension of bin Laden.

Posted by: joeblough at March 31, 2008 1:08 PM

Here is a speech to the Dutch Parliament by Geert Wilders that Michael Savage posted on his website.
I don't no how dated it is but gives some insight into the knowledge that Wilders has gathered on Islam.

http://www.michaelsavage.com/savage-geert-wilders.html

Posted by: Mackie at March 31, 2008 1:09 PM

I hope all right-thinking Netherlanders will vote in droves at the the next election for Wilders and show the crazy mullahs and the cowardly Dutch dhimmies in governement what they think about them.

A UK admirer

Posted by: ColinUK at March 31, 2008 1:09 PM

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

To this can be added another stage that precedes the three listed above. It is first ignored, then ridiculed, then violently opposed, then accepted.

This is a Western response, of course. Islam is not so subtle. Their only response is violence.

Posted by: Eastview at March 31, 2008 1:11 PM

The world would be better off by far if banned Islam and its attendant horrors instead rather than an innocent documentary like "Fitna".

Posted by: pythagoras at March 31, 2008 1:16 PM

Zealous Muslims, in their blind collectivist mindset, are barking up the wrong tree on this one, as usual. Given that the Dutch nation and government neither hosts nor supports Fitna, this political grievance theater would be absurd, if the situation wasn't so pathetic.

Posted by: John C at March 31, 2008 1:21 PM

I'm sure this is already known at jihadwatch. Due to the constraints of time, I wasn't sure:

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/AntiSemi/12749.htm

Israeli Insider defies Islamic threats, posts banned Fitna film about Koran
By Israel Insider staff and partners March 30, 2008

This video contains grisly scenes and should not be watched in the presence of children.

Israel Insider here posts "Fitna", the controversial movie by Dutchman Geert Wilders that seeks to show how violent verses of the Koran and preaching of Islamic clerics are translated into global terror.

Posted by: monk at March 31, 2008 1:27 PM

From yesterday's discussion:

boneshack, you wrote: "You are making a very dangerous and unqualified assumption about me."

If I am mistaken, I apologize.

Today is not a time for neutrality. Everyone must take a stand and decide whose side he or she are on. Mr. Bush is with my enemies. All those who support Mr. Bush support my enemies. It is as simple as that.

Posted by: monk at March 31, 2008 1:29 PM

Translation: 26 Islamic countries fear we (the dirty filthy-worthy-of-death infidels) KNOW the "faith" they hold so dear is predicated on a lie Muslims dare not admit: Allah is as much a myth as Zeus is.

In all, Islam has only as much power as one is willing to accord it. Specifically in regards to respecting a Muslims imaginary belief of such a malevolent and vile "god" of nothing. Why respect it and why respect their beliefs, they prove nothing in regards to true peace so why respect Islam at all?

Fitna indeed.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at March 31, 2008 1:40 PM

In response we should ask for a ban of the koran since it has so much violence against us infidels.

I would also like the mosques and madrassas banned in our countries since that is where most of their hatred is spawned and passed on.

Posted by: R_not at March 31, 2008 1:50 PM

What infuriates me is the fact that these countries are interfering with the civil rights of a citizen of a country which is not theirs.

It infuriates me even more because the debate has been and still is assiduously pushed towards the 'merits' of Islam - and here in Europe people still think all religions are the same, so leave well alone.
It infuriates me further that those who ought to know better (and perhaps know but don't want to say so) are denigrating Wilders as being a 'right-wing populist', so that FITNa can be devalued as propaganda against all Muslims, and rejected as not worthy of comment

It saddens me when I remember the posture of the Danish Prime Minister in regard to the motoons - he send the Imams off to the lawcourts, and told the foreign ambassadors that he, as Prime Minsiter, had no right to interfere with the freedom of the press.
We all know what happend later, and we all remember how the media in Europe were too cowardly to print the motoons ...

Nobody has learned anything - except for some citizens who started to check on the internet, and whose eyes have been opened even further by things happening in their own countries in the meantime.

The saddest thing about this is that the failure of the politicians of all democratic parties, across Europe, is driving more and more people to vote for the suspect parties of the far right.

For all those politicians and their handmaidens in the media, well protected from the reality to which we are exposed every day, by their huge salaries and rich lifestyles, I have nothing but the utmost contempt.

Posted by: Calon Lan at March 31, 2008 1:52 PM

The message: Islam is above criticism, ignore our violence and supremacism, we are accountable to no one.

Posted by: Sounder at March 31, 2008 2:04 PM

Moshe Feiglin was in New York on September 11, 2001. In a flash of brilliance he understood and wrote this profound essay. What ever you may think of Feiglin, informed or otherwise, read this essay. It contains an uncomfortable truth that the liberal West is unwilling to embrace. The West prefers to negotiate its surrender believing that the “alligator” won’t eat it.

He recommended destroying their symbols just as they destroyed ours.

Subsequent events have proved him right.

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=628#more-628

Posted by: monk at March 31, 2008 2:04 PM

These are a few words that I'm getting really sick of;

Feelings
Sensitive
Holiest
Prophet
Quran
Hate
Militant
Terrorist
Killing

Usually in that order. Anyone else starting to see a connection here?

Muslims are so sensitive and their little feelings are right on their sleeve. Like a child.

It seems so irrational to me that a grown man would stand and say "You hurt my feelings, so now I'm going to take something from you."

We're dealing with children here. And our left wing baby boomer hippie politicians are watching with open arms and readied excuse. You know, It's only natural that a child will retaliate when his feelings are hurt.

Posted by: Abrog8 at March 31, 2008 2:05 PM

I absolutely can not tell you how badly I wish that there was someone like Geert Wilders in the U.S. Congress.

Actually, 535 of them would be better.

I don't expect to see even one anytime soon though.

I have to admit I am not very optimistic about the future of our nation (or of our world).

Posted by: shortfattexan at March 31, 2008 2:14 PM

I posted this elsewhere on the site...next thread in fact, just want some help educating or at least arguing with the apologists and Muslims at this blog.

Holy crap....
Someone who is more learned than I...maybe a few of us might need/want to get involved in the conversation/argument that Vince mentioned elsewhere, and that I am now involved in with the Muslim fellahs at this link... Or ...maybe it's a waste of time?
http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/geert-wilders-fitna-farce/

I have to do searches to answer each question, as I just don't have enough info in my head, to refute their statements without doing a search first.
I'm gettin all the same, "There's violence in the Bible" crap, and references to fringe Christian groups that they use to justify violence from the Koran. history is my weak point....
Mr Spencer is referred to regularly as being ignorant and uninformed. HA!
I'm up against some experienced Muslim apologists there and would love to see someone more knowledgeable than I do battle there.
Whaddya think?

Posted by: Alaskan at March 31, 2008 2:18 PM

Ban islam from the West and non-muslim worlds.

Posted by: TINBH at March 31, 2008 2:26 PM

I fail to understand why these Country's are asking us to ban this Film. They are more than welcome to ban what ever they want. I though they were tired of us telling them what to do.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at March 31, 2008 2:38 PM

The Netherlands not long ago were, as was the entirety of Europe, underfoot and oppressed of the barbaric Third Reich. Not unlike their European counterparts, they, once again, suffer from a not dissimilar lack of foresight, much like road-kill.
The Islamists, along with their leftist, aiders and abettors, cry out, demanding Fitna be banned… and the handwringing begins with frivolous, earnestness.
The, airy-fairy, Euros insist on digging the proverbial hole deeper and deeper… this has been an inherent mindset for a century, if not more. Then, without shame, they will beg big, bad America to disinter them from the grave in which they, blindly, entombed themselves.
This is not to be smug; America and, without doubt, her neighbour to the north, also, teeter-totter when it comes to dealing with Islam, radical or not: finding themselves rooted in the inanity of political-correctness and expediency.
Question: How many leftists, Islamist apologists, will view Fitna?
I fear there are more of the aforementioned secreting personal Qurans and prayer mats under their beds for the day, they hope, of capitulation.

Posted by: ballzack at March 31, 2008 2:43 PM

Alaskan - I wish you all the best in your debate with those well-schooled muslims!

I've given up debating with them because what they say is always, everywhere, the same. It always omes back to the crusades, they always say that Chrisitans slaughtered more than them, they always say that one quotes the Q'uran 'out of context' - and in the end, it is always due to the existence of Israel ...

Talking with them is like bashing one's head against the wall - its so nice when one can stop!

The only way to get to them is not to answer their questions but to ask them questions oneself - and to keep the purpose of the debate firmly in one's own hands, not letting them dictate what is going to be talked about, and where its going to lead.

Haul them back to your main point, ask them questions and keep telling them that they haven't answered (because they never do!) - in the end they will give up.

They do not debate to clear up different points of view, they debate in order to make you agree with them: they want their victory, and above all your submission.
They are muslims, after all - and you are an infidel ...

Posted by: Calon Lan at March 31, 2008 2:56 PM

26 Islamic countries don't have more constructive things to do with their time?

Posted by: champ at March 31, 2008 3:09 PM

It it looks like crap and smells like crap, it's crap. Such idiocy! It's beyond belief.

Posted by: wright3279 at March 31, 2008 3:09 PM

Slightly O.T.

Does anyone know the correct pronunciation of "Geert Wilders"?

Posted by: shortfattexan at March 31, 2008 3:43 PM

Since Fitna was composed almost entirely from verses of one sura of the Koran, are the Mohammedan asking us to ban the chapter used in it, or the whole Koran?

Posted by: senor doeboy at March 31, 2008 3:53 PM

FITNA is on the internet, has gone viral and can no longer be banned.LiveLeak had 4 mil hits the first day the film was released. There are several versions on Youtube with one version having almost 800,000 views.It also at numerous websites and has been translated in to several languages.In order to stop the film the internet would have to be shut down and millions of computers confiscated.FITNA will live on for years and years thanks to the internet.Of course Muslims could leave the internet in "protest" while waiting for the "ban". Or they could create their own "Muslim internet", but that would be inferior to the infidel version and not even Muslims would want to use it.

Muslims never seem to learn, by whining and complaining they created a demand for the film. Whereas if they had reacted rationally, FITNA would likely have opened in one theater in one country been seen by a few hundred or a few thousand people and then possibly been released on dvd.Muslim rage over cartoons lead to FITNA, their irrational threats will just lead to another film after FITNA and further exposure of Islam.

Posted by: Roxane at March 31, 2008 4:09 PM

Roxane, correct, it is long past being banned. I have two versions of "Fitna" on my hard drive (WMV, MPG). I would really, really like for some Muslim to come to my front door and demand that I delete both.

Posted by: Pelayo at March 31, 2008 4:49 PM

I think the rabid, Muslim Mickey Mouse is a much stronger character that children of all ages can better identify with. The young child conversing directly with the leader of the free world is not as believable!

Posted by: nondhimmidude at March 31, 2008 5:06 PM

If the Dutch pronounciation of "Gert Wilders" is similarl to German, it would be pronounced Gayert Villders.

Posted by: Pelayo at March 31, 2008 5:13 PM

I pressed the POST button too quickly. The "ee" in Geert is just like the ee in Beethoven. If "Wilders" is pronounced like the English word wild, it would be spelled Weilders.

That's how I would pronounce it anyway.

Posted by: Pelayo at March 31, 2008 5:17 PM

Mackie

Thanks for posting the link to the Wilders' address

Posted by: Infidel Pride at March 31, 2008 5:20 PM

Alaskan, when some Mohammedan apologist or an atheist Christian hater starts talking about Christian violence, use this link

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/history_extreme.asp

There have been only two abortion attacks each year for 2004, 2005, and 2007. I presume there were no attacks in 2006. Since 2000 they list just one incident that could possibly be a personal injury. As I pointed out on a skeptic website, the motives could have been something else, such as insurance fraud; I was called several unkind names. Arson makes me suspicious.

Since the referenced site is Prochoice.org, they would have a vested interest in listing every act they could find.

PS - I am not a Christian apologist.

Posted by: Pelayo at March 31, 2008 5:30 PM

Alaskan, this is a more comprehensive list, again they do not list a motive:

http://www.prochoice.org/pubs_research/publications/downloads/about_abortion/violence_statistics.pdf

It still appears that the first decade of the 21st Century is rather calm as far as abortion clinics are concerned.

According to this opinion, abortion is not allowed in Islam, perhaps not all abortion clinic attacks are perpetrated by Christians.

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=16287

Posted by: Pelayo at March 31, 2008 5:46 PM

Thanks Pelayo

Posted by: shortfattexan at March 31, 2008 5:47 PM

What should be happening is that the Dutch PM and FM should be telling the Muslims exactly the same thing as the Danish PM did.

At the same time, the heads of state and parliaments of ALL halfway decent non-Muslim countries - and, yes, even Russia - should be sending firm messages to the Dutch government urging them to defend Mr Wilders' right to freedom of speech and NOT to disown him.

They should also be offering Mr Wilders significant sums of money in order to broadcast 'Fitna' on their free-to-air national televisions; and if they've really got guts, they would broadcast it in a double bill with 'Submission', preceded (as in all good old-fashioned movie shows) by 'the funnies', namely, a slideshow of the 'Danish cartoons. Perhaps include a live interview featuring Mr Wilders, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Magdi Cristiano Allam, Wafa Sultan, and the Danish cartoonists headed by Mr Westergaard (I'm sure Mr W. would drop his complaint against Mr Wilders, if offered a good price to appear on such a talkshow). The whole bill dedicated to Theo van Gogh and to all other critics and 'blasphemers' and apostates from Islam who have been threatened and yes, murdered, by 'offended' Muslims.

Finally: Infidel governments all over should be publicly issuing invitations to Mr Wilders to come visit and to give to their assembled parliaments, in special session, the speech he gave to the Dutch parliament.

This would send a very clear message about Infidel solidarity and the value that we place upon freedom, and upon freedom of speech.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at March 31, 2008 6:11 PM

well the OIC has no tradition of freedom of speech in their countries and then not really equipped to understand in these days of the Internet it is almost impossible for a country to ban anything China's been trying for years so in actuality watching these 26 Muslim countries loudly screaming to ban something they do not like that is now on the Internet is almost impossible . They would be doing much better to go after the Islamic fundamentalists shown in the movie who are crying death to the USA and death to the United Kingdom and death to Israel and kill all the Jewsand I see the film has even been posted to you tube though undoubtably they will pull it shortly for being offensive to Muslims

Posted by: crusader at March 31, 2008 6:29 PM

>>The ambassadors of 26 Islamic countries"

Ambassadors? You mean Terrorists?

Or, if these "Ambassadors" are European and American, you mean "Dhimmis?"

Posted by: darcy at March 31, 2008 7:38 PM

Or, if these "Ambassadors" are European and American, you mean "Dhimmis?"

Posted by: darcy

I like where you'e going with that - how about Dambassadors :-)

Posted by: champ at March 31, 2008 11:04 PM

The truth is an absolute defense to any charge of defamation. Let this principle guide The Netherlands and all the West and Islam will be put on the defensive, which is where it should be for all time.

Posted by: Wellington at March 31, 2008 11:04 PM

The dhimmi Europoliticians are revolting...very revolting. Actually the behavior of Islamopoliticians and Europoliticians are to be expected. I am a little surprised at the lackluster street rage performances. Do professional muslim rioters get daily instructions from somewhere?
Who told them to go light on Fitna, but heavy on cartoons?
This is actually a battle of political ideology, not in this case East and West, but West and West.
Which ideology will prevail in the future, the current one of denial and appeasement, or the ideology of enlightenment and action? Right now, the appeasers are in charge, we can see what a wonderful job they are doing. The appeasers and apologists are operating out of fear. These are the wrong people to be in power at this time. Fearing, apologizing, and appeasing on an on going basis is slavery, or dhimmitude. As these fearfully stunted politicians reveal themselves, every effort should be made to remove them...The US has no qualified candidates.
McCain will only make feeble attempts, the Dems, none at all...

Posted by: duh_swami at March 31, 2008 11:16 PM

Dumblesdore posted this:

preceded (as in all good old-fashioned movie shows) by 'the funnies', namely, a slideshow of the 'Danish cartoons.
I would like to offer the suggestion about using the cartoons from the Palis that teach children to hate non-muslims.
Most Westerners can still recognize child abuse when they see it.

Posted by: Aunt Bea at April 1, 2008 7:23 AM

"Representatives of twenty-six Islamic nations ...," what did they do? oh yeah, they boarded airplanes "... to the Netherlands" ... so they could all stare at each other as they put their goofball Islamic heads together, and to do what ...? oh, yeah, "... to investigate whether the film Fitna ... can be banned."

Obviously, these silly Islamic pant-loads didn't think to simply get on the telephone to each other and talk, no, in order to portray themselves as men of importance, like peacocks with feathers in bloom they think to publicly strut over to an plane and make a spectacle out of themselves as they fly to the Netherlands ... "to investigate" things.

If anyone wonders why there are no Islamic men equivalent to the likes of a Thomas Edison, or Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, just take a gander at how the best and the brightest "men" of modern Islam think and act to accomplish something, to get something done.

The modern Islamic dignitary couldn't mentally punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Islam makes men sure act silly and dopey sometimes.

Posted by: k24anson at April 1, 2008 11:05 AM

Where did all this caustic, sardonic wit of mine suddenly come from?

I wanna keep my writing skills sharp, but I probably should learn to cool it with the ridicule. It reflects back on me, sort of.

Posted by: k24anson at April 1, 2008 11:10 AM

k24anson,

The home video of your daughter's first day of preschool stands in starkest contrast with that video of a 3 1/2 year-old Egyptian girl named Basmallah, and with lessons Basmallah learned. (I much, much prefer yours to the other, provided by MEMRI; but couldn't help thinking of the other while enjoying yours.)

Posted by: John C at April 2, 2008 6:06 PM

Alaskan,

I followed the link to Ali Eteraz site, and noticed that Eteraz claimed that 20,000 Indian Deobandi clerics condemned terrorism and extremism, when a critical commenter noted the extremism of the Koran, four schools of Islamic jurisprudence, and some 40,000 Saudi clerics; Eteraz snidely implied that the commenter was an ignorant poseur, that there were FIVE schools, and by implication, his critic was acknowledging one of them to be moderate--and like crap that's calculated to snooker the unwary.

Needless to say, the WHOLE truth paints a starkly different picture, when we consider the example of the Deobandis' recent statement against terrorism and extremism. Left unsaid is any reference to the text itself, that clearly condemns terrorism, to be sure--AGAINST MUSLIMS.

Said a True Prophet, "There are none so blind as those who have eyes, and yet will not see."

Posted by: John C at April 2, 2008 11:53 PM