Deport them.

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at April 2, 2008 1:31 AM

Why are prisons such fertile recruiting grounds for Islam? Is it just coincidence, or are criminals just naturally attracted to Islam? Now, there's a sociological study just waiting to be done if anyone has the courage to take it on.

Posted by: Eastview at April 2, 2008 3:18 AM

Frankly, who on this board did not know what this fool, Richard Ford has 'discovered'. What a dumba**!

Posted by: Alert at April 2, 2008 3:33 AM

They're expecting to have one thousand six hundred jihadis in jail by 2016-2017?

And they can't do anything about this?

Just sit there, mindlessly let even more Muslims into the country in the meantime, and watch more, and more, and more people turning into sociopathic clones of Mohammed ha-Meshugga?

I think Battle of Tours has the right idea, here.

If these people have British citizenship by either birth or formal acquisition, they forfeited it when they plotted Jihad against Britain. Even if they are Anglo converts or children of converts - in the olden days, traitors and rebels were either executed or exiled.

Note: all plots to impose Sharia by force or by stealth are also tantamount to treachery, sedition and rebellion, since they involve a total denial of the legitimacy of British common law (be it in its English, Welsh or Scots versions) and its civil authorities.

Since Britain does not have the death penalty: strip the jihadis of their citizenship and exile them on a one-way ticket to a Muslim-majority country chosen entirely at random. What fun! Spin the roulette wheel or pull the name out of a hat: will it be Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Somalia, Gaza, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Mauritania, Niger, Mali? And they would be 'marked men', barred not just from re-entering Britain, but from entering any other non-Muslim country, anywhere.

And meanwhile: don't let any more seemingly 'peaceful' Muslims in.

The existing Muslim population would then have to be quiet and behave. If they went in for more jihad plots, their numbers would drop as jihadis (and associates?) were caught and booted out.

Resolute protection of all bona fide apostates would bring the numbers down more: especially if any Muslims caught attacking or threatening such apostates, were ALSO unceremoniously booted out.

Ditto for any family convicted of an 'honor' murder or attempted murder, or forced underage marriage of a daughter, or FGM on a minor: out they all go, mum, dad, brothers, cousins, uncles, the whole kit and caboodle, back to dar-al-Islam on a one-way ticket (the girl victims of such 'marriages', attempted honor murders or FGM procedures would have the option of staying behind - to be offered deprogramming with counsellors and psychologists).

Final bright idea: any mosque found to have been attended regularly by proven jihadis, or by persons caught attacking/ threatening apostates and 'blasphemers', would be shut down (preferably demolished), its assets confiscated, and its imam deported.

I really don't see, from a practical, prudential point of view, what else is to be done, in the end, if we seriously mean to defeat the Jihad.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 2, 2008 4:23 AM

dumbledoresarmy,

Right on, on every one of your (or Battle of Tours') points. Although the UK would be a good place to start, the same policies and procedures should be adopted in EVERY Western country.

Posted by: Eastview at April 2, 2008 4:35 AM

"Why are prisons such fertile recruiting grounds for Islam? Is it just coincidence, or are criminals just naturally attracted to Islam? Now, there's a sociological study just waiting to be done if anyone has the courage to take it on." Posted by: Eastview

Or are muslims just naturally attracted to crime? Hmmm........let's go interview some and find out!

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at April 2, 2008 7:10 AM

02/04/08

As a Hindu from India, the Westerners should appreciate the difficulties in managing 200 million muslims amongst us for over 1000 years. We have managed them and here are a few suggestions:

> Go back to Christianity and the Church. It is a good religion and it is worth defending. Defending Christianity is better slogan than defending an abstract like freedom of speech, democracy etc.
> Throw out the socialist scoundrels from politics and the left lunatics from the academics
> Force the Conserve Party to become Christianity supporting party; it is unlikely that the Church will exert any undue influence in the government and it is a an issue that can be remedied.
> Scrap the welfare pay outs except for the aged. Welfare only encourages the unproductives and undesirables.
> Make extradition easy and it should be for the entire family; the convict will be jailed say for a period of five years but the family will be thrown out immediately on conviction
> Influence the judiciary, by fair and foul means, to give tougher decisions.
> The police force should be brainwashed against muslims and should use violent methods to control. In India the police does and people brush aside the resultant Islamic jingoism.
> The Conservative party should accept national security as the main plank
> Re-install death penalty
> Once in five years there should be riots in which thousands of muslims will be killed. Sounds barbaric; the alternative is being consumed by barbarism. In India we retaliate and it is called constructive response.
> Separate them physically in secluded areas; that is better than to permit them to live in all areas, which they will contaminate. They will never assimilate and do not attempt at it.
> Stop muslim immigration and substitute with Hindu labour; they are law abiding and will integrate admirably well. Hindus are the second richest and most highly educated minority in USA. There is a not a single case of a Hindu being profiled for wrong reasons.
> Teach the children to hate the muslims; they any way are doing the same thing.
> Follow the Hindu way of life; live life and accept death as inevitable; live for the children and for their future. Sex is only a side attraction and wealth is only incidental.
> Consign all the human rights character to Saudi Arabia; tell them human lives are more important than human rights
> Get out of EU and preserve your right to protect your country and its culture
> In India we have a main stream political party for protecting the majority rights; create a similar one, since otherwise the secular fanatics will abandon the majority

Posted by: Thiagan at April 2, 2008 7:33 AM

Hmmm, Thiaqan, your post has a lot worth considering. I myself grew revolted at our secularism and its supine posture vis-a-vis totalitarianism back in my late teens, and followed Messiah. However, I will not teach my children to hate. Our Christian faith teaches us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us--and we believe that this has paid off in the form of a lot of ex-Muslims now living among us, of whom Magdi Allam is just the tip of an iceberg.

I continue to pray that the current furor islamicus may well prove to be Islam destroying itself from within. In China, the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution was terrible, destructive, and fanatical; and its end result is that Chinese people will listen to anything except Maoism. Perhaps the same is happening with Islam now.

Posted by: Kepha at April 2, 2008 8:15 AM

dumbledoresarmy and Thiagan, between the two of you, I think a perfect plan for the preservation of western civilizastion is possible. Are you two available for a speaking tour? Or at least a book collaberation?

Posted by: walterc at April 2, 2008 11:13 AM

This has been going on in the USA, especially New York and California for a long time.
The institutions (prisons) are breeding grounds
for Islamist fascists. Without going into sources, which I can't for several reason, specifically being sworn not to, there are large Islamo cells growing larger everyday in the prisons. In one prison very recently in California a 36 volume training manual for terrorism was discovered.
This may be the biggest source of danger we face here, and its home grown and protected by religous freedom. The ACLU should be disbanded or indicted for conspriacy.

Montjoie

Godfrey

Posted by: Godfrey Boullion at April 2, 2008 11:33 AM

Prisons as ideological training grounds for terrorism, all under the guise of religion, and all protected (at least in the U.S.) by the First Amendment. And just where do those people go upon release from prison, after having been indoctrinated? Good G*d... It makes the head spin.

Posted by: Eastview at April 2, 2008 11:45 AM

I had some dealings a few years ago with an ex-con who's name was originally a very bland Joe Smith or David Jones sort of name but after some time in the pen he changed it to Jihad Saleem.
Actual truth. Jihad Saleem. Very glad he returned to prison.
Montjoie!

Posted by: Godfrey Boullion at April 2, 2008 11:55 AM

Perhaps this does makes the case for Muslim-only inmates prisons after all (of course non-Muslim guards who must be resilient to dawa), to prevent them proselytising and converting non-Muslim thugs en masse and creating more Jihadis.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at April 2, 2008 1:30 PM

The Conservative party should accept national security as the main plank

Trouble is, Thiagan, there's not much chance of the Conservative Party accepting national security as the main plank when they're opposed to lengthening the maximum detention period for terrorist suspects from 28 days to 42 days, because they not only think, but are also trying to con us into believing it will tear up democracy, freedom and the rule of law, and turn us into a police state with no civil liberties. Cameron is nothing but a shallow opportunist who will vote against national security measures in the hope that it will embarrass the Government, and national security comes a very poor second. Why should we trust anyone who plays party politics with something as important as this?

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at April 2, 2008 1:40 PM

kepha

seconding your post.

I think most of the Christians who post here would differ from thiagan in that we do try to distinguish the persons possessed by Islam, from 'the Islam' which possesses them. We don't see them as perpetually condemned to remain 'orcs' (an image from Tolkien) - we KNOW that by the power of God some at least (many, we hope!) can be transformed back into 'elves' (beautiful, free, creative human beings). Therefore, we do try our best to hate the ideology, but not to hate the people.

Every Friday now, I pray for two things: the Defeat of the Jihad and...the Conversion of Muslims (needless to say, I assume that the second of those two things can only happen by peaceful persuasion, their own free choice and the power of the Holy Spirit). For some ten years now, each year I've taken part in the '30 Days' project, under which Christians world wide spend Ramadan engaging in concerted, targeted prayer for Muslims.

The crowning delight of this Easter, for me was to log on - first to our national news site, then to jihadwatch - to discover the account of Magdi Cristiano Allam's baptism. I kid you not, I sat there reading it with tears in my eyes and then recited the Gloria. I was also delighted to read, here on jihadwatch or dhimmiwatch, about the efforts of Fr Zakaria Botros and his Arabic TV program that calmly and patiently lays bare the absurdities and immoralities of the Islamic ideology, whilst also offering the Christian alternative in a gentle, loving manner.

As a member and supporter of the Bible Society, I hear news all the time about the effects of translating and distributing the scriptures within the Islamosphere. I would love to see a huge ecumenical effort (using community radio, for example) to reach Muslims living within non-Muslim countries. I only wish Hugh's April 1st/ April Fool's posting, about a hypothetical 'Radio Free Kabul' , was describing reality.

The harsh measures I was describing in my post - removal of citizenship, deportation, mosque closures, etc, would apply to those jihadi and sharia-minded Muslims specifically caught in, or shown to be complicit in, acts of sedition and treason and in plotted, attempted or actually committed violence, be it jihad violence or 'sharia' violence.

(By 'sharia' violence I mean attempts by Muslims in non-Muslim lands to carry out the apostasy/ blasphemy punishments, or to violently punish Muslim girls for such things as rejecting forced marriages, not wearing hijab, dating or getting engaged to a non-Muslim, and so on; rape of non-Muslim females might also qualify).

Our non-Muslim governments have to get their heads unfogged and realize that - as per St Paul's instructions - their job is to enforce our laws (which, in general, are good laws, much better than sharia). Wherever people within the Muslim 'community' in the Infidel lands are caught showing complete contempt for our Infidel laws - as at the level of traffic violations and welfare fraud - they need to learn otherwise. Call it Tough Love.

Christians prayed for the deliverance of Germans from the Nazi ideology. But it was also necessary for governments to find and punish Nazi spies, saboteurs and enablers, and for armies to challenge the Nazi armies in battle and defeat them. Then, after the Nazis were physically defeated, people like Corrie ten Boom went into Germany to tackle the much more difficult task of deprogramming those whom Hitler had brainwashed.

At the level of practical law enforcement and politics, the Third Jihad (including not only military attack but mass migration enabling Sharia Creep and infiltration) can be checked or pushed back; that in turn buys space and time for those who undertake the huge spiritual challenge of releasing those who are imprisoned by the ideology.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 2, 2008 5:57 PM

Thanks, Dumbledoresarmy. While I admit to being rather un-ecumenical (I freely admit to being a hardcore Calvinist), I welcome all who have opened themselves to Christ--and I believe that this is what God has commanded in Scripture.

One of the things that disgusted me about the secular radicalism of the 1970's was how it gushed over Chairman Mao; yet children in Mainland China were taught to hate--just as the children of the Dar-el-Iblis (Islamosphere) are now being taught to hate. And, I'll add, I am very critical of "Christian" leaders like Jeremiah Wright and the KKK chaplains who inject such a note into Christian congregations (regardless of ethnicity). It is right and proper to criticize the sins and idolatries of the world; it is sinful to feel that the grace of God, which has opened our hearts, eyes, and minds to truth, licenses us to throw bricks at people.

Posted by: Kepha at April 2, 2008 7:23 PM

As Hugh noted numerous times; what is the use of having all kinds experts in place if even the simplest things either elude them or they are constrained from acting on that knowledge by their masters? Enid Blyton among her thousands of stories had a fable about one rotten apple spoiling the whole barrel. Kids brought up on her stories would know that the jihadis are simply going to subvert the prison population given the chance. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure this out.

Posted by: ivan at April 2, 2008 10:33 PM

[i]Is it just coincidence, or are criminals just naturally attracted to Islam?[/i]

...when you thought you've hit bottom, it must feel good to know that there's [i]much, much[/i] lower you can go...

Posted by: Un:dhimmi at April 3, 2008 4:11 PM