This of course should have been a for gone conclusion for those who have watched the video FITNA. I'm glad to see that this ruling has demonstrated what was obvious to most of us on the JW Website.

The unfortunate thing is now the judge may have to end up watching his back as well.

When I saw the article noting that they planned on taking Geert to Court on the film, I welcomed it in the hopes that cooler heads and those who choose to defend the freedom of expression would prevail.

Posted by: Mackie at April 7, 2008 1:38 PM

A welcome respite from the constant stream of bad news coming out of the Netherlands. But it won't amount to anything if it doesn't mark, or provoke, a wider turnaround of Dutch attitudes toward Islamic extemism, and provoke aggressive enforcement of laws against REAL hate speech like some of what Wilders' film portrayed. Still a long way to go.

There's also the matter of lawsuits against Wilders for economic losses due to boycotts of the Netherlands.

I won't be hopeful for the Netherlands until all of this is cleared up.

Posted by: templar at April 7, 2008 1:43 PM

This is just an example of Muslims and apologists using Arguementum ad Odium (Appeal to hatred/spite) in their defence of Islam.

Critics of Islam, are regularly attacked with this logical fallacy, by Muslims and apologists.

I myself have lost count of how many times I've been attacked by it, and I'm sure Mr Spencer has too.

Posted by: Rogster at April 7, 2008 1:48 PM

"A record of the meeting says the ministers were concerned about the end of the film in which Mr Wilders said he intended to tear out pages of the Qur'an and burn them in the fireplace."

So what if he did?

Posted by: Elric66 at April 7, 2008 1:54 PM

Well now you can look forward to a new law prohibiting any discussion on Islam or Islamists.

Posted by: Sounder at April 7, 2008 2:08 PM

Since when are we obliged to love those who hate us? Who imposed a duty on us to like infil-traitors who come with a religious-ideological mandate to conquer, subjugate, kill or forcibly convert us?

Resisting this madness provokes?

Let these perpetually enraged lunatics stew in provocations!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 7, 2008 2:12 PM

Winston Churchill did the opposite, he compared Mein Kampf to the Quaran.

This judge will probably be threatened soon. I wonder what group of peace loving people would do that?

What ever happened to Hitlers 'other' book?

Posted by: alaskan1000 at April 7, 2008 2:24 PM

"If jihadists didn't use the Qur'an like Mein Kampf, it wouldn't occur to anyone to make this comparison. No one is comparing the Bhagavad Gita to Mein Kampf."

Robert -

Hindus could use the war-like passages in the Bhagavad Gita to justify violence in the name of Hinduism - but they don't. Like other religions (the exception is Islam), Hindus use these passages (especially the conversations between Arjuna and Krishna) as a metaphor,

Using the Qur'an as metaphor is not currently allowed under Islam.

Posted by: tanstaafl at April 7, 2008 2:51 PM

"Using the Qur'an as metaphor is not currently allowed under Islam."

Mo himself didnt take the Qur'an as metaphor so dont count on Muslims ever to do so.

Posted by: Elric66 at April 7, 2008 2:57 PM

Did Churchill really compare Mein Kampff to the Quran? When? Where?

Posted by: devorgilla at April 7, 2008 2:57 PM

This is good news, although as one poster above noted the judge may also now have to now starting watching his back.

About the end of the film where the ministers expressed dismay that Wilders tore pages out of the Qur'an. Didn't they WATCH the film? In it Wilders explicitly makes the point that he is not tearing pages from the Qur'an, rather the sound is of a page being torn from a phone book and it is up to Muslims to actually tear the offending pages from their "holy" text. The visual imagery made the point, though, but was apparently a little too powerful for the delicate sensibilities of the Muslims.

Posted by: Eastview at April 7, 2008 3:00 PM

The Islamic Federation could NOT care less about what some judge says, because Islam is the final judge and final authority concerning all matters over what is right, what is wrong, and what is just; and if the IF stated that Wilder's film was hate speech, then by Jove, it was hate speech. Period.

Heads must roll over this decision - allah won't have it any other way.

Islam be gone!

Posted by: champ at April 7, 2008 3:04 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing a moratorium on comparisons to Mein Kampf. I suspect barely anyone who uses it to beat his opponents over the head has read it. I've tried, but it is so badly organized and generally badly written that it is largely impenetrable, though I did notice that the strongest theme is the need to expand German territory to the East rather than the need to get rid of Jews. There is one section which seems remarkably humane and clear-headed on the need for German Christians (Lutherans and Catholics) to unite in their common interests and those of their country.

Anyhow, the Koran is similar in being badly in need of an editor, largely impenetrable, and occasionally giving an illusion of decency.

Posted by: Karl Pov at April 7, 2008 3:14 PM

Production of ‘Fitna’ movie is an act of indecent licentiousness in the name of ‘right of freedom of speech and expression. It is a conduct unbecoming, of an MP of a tiny European state, to create a wide spread antagonism and antipathy with an intent to afflict an out rage pain and spread a dislike phobia against the believers of 'Latest Divine Words of Holy Quran' which is revealed by our God Almighty to supersedes all the previous denomination. It is a deep seeded vice to create a perceived enemy and spread mischief among societies, out of sheer envy of Islam with an aim to undermine and malign the divinely plans.

But the man and his cohorts may not know; ‘that howling of stray tail-wagers of streets may not disrupt the journey plan of the moving caravans.’

(Awaz e saggan kum na kunad Rizq e Gadda ra)
--------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None

Posted by: A Khokar at April 7, 2008 3:16 PM

Thanks for making me laugh, Khokar!

And you still haven't answered me where in the Koran or in the hadith this ridiculous slogan of yours 'Love for all, Hatred for None' can be found.

Btw Khokar: it is not Wilders who spreads "antagonism and antipathy with an intent to afflict an out rage pain and spread a dislike phobia against the believers"- Wilders merely held up a mirror which reflects the hatred you and your believing zombies suck in with the mothers milk. How dare you bring this filth into our countries telling us this is something 'divine'!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 7, 2008 3:31 PM

To summarize A Khokar's comment:

Wilder's is guilty of exercising the right of free speech and in that exercise has merely put forth the truth about the words in the Qur'an from the very mouths of the Islamists themselves.

Common sense for all, stupidity for none.

Posted by: awake at April 7, 2008 3:38 PM

AK is a mind reader as well as a liar, as he claims to know why Wilder made this film is the first place; and he also claims that we "ENVY" Islam on top of it. Yeah, I envy Islam and it's followers like I envy someone suffering from a self-induced drug addiction. Did it ever occur to you that Wilder made this film in order to expose Islam for what it really is? Wilder told the Truth, something you ought to try sometime, instead of lying to us.

Oh, and about being a liar, AK, I'm referring to your "Love for All, Hatred for None" ONE LINER. We don't believe you, nor do we believe in your false religion, your false prophet, or your false god.

Islam be gone!

Posted by: champ at April 7, 2008 3:44 PM

devorgilla:

I found this just searching the terms. I don't have this book, so I can't verify the authenticity.

Re: Churchill compares Qur'an to Mein Kampf ...

But the really interesting comparison is Winston Churchill's, though he did it the other way around. It comes on p. 50 of From War to War, the first part of the first volume of his 6-part Second World War. Chapter 4 deals with Adolf Hitler, including a close look at Mein Kampf, which Churchill called "the new Koran of faith and war: turgid, verbose, shapeless, but pregnant with its message."

Posted by: Lori B. at April 7, 2008 3:52 PM

Common sense for all, stupidity for none.

Posted by: awake

LOL!! Touche'!!!

Posted by: champ at April 7, 2008 4:09 PM

Here are a couple of blurbs from the relevant IslamOnline article:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1203758788090&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

1. "The contested remarks ARE NOT SEEN AS UNLAWFUL..."

2. The court defined fascism as "a collective term for ideologies which fundamentally embrace A TOTALITARIAN POLITICAL SYSTEM WHICH LEAVES NO ROOM FOR PEOPLE WITH OTHER IDEAS."

***The ruling seemed to suggest that THE COURT BELIEVES ISLAM IS ONE OF THESE TOTALITARIAN IDEOLOGIES***.

And arguably, best of all:

3. The court also claimed that THE MUSLIM GROUP FAILED TO DISPROVE THAT ISLAM CONSISTS OF BELIEFS THAT ARE IN CONTRADICTION TO DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES.

Posted by: PRCS at April 7, 2008 4:49 PM

http://books.google.com/books?id=JjvnPJnk57cC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=%22here+was+the+new+koran+of+faith+and+war%22&source=web&ots=k9fcgXFV4P&sig=WElr7pLH8Y_JUyQ5JLUyT6QAAOs

There is the link to the quote in Churchill's Book.

Posted by: ssrat at April 7, 2008 5:15 PM

A record of the meeting says the ministers were concerned about the end of the film in which Mr Wilders said he intended to tear out pages of the Qur'an and burn them in the fireplace."

So what if he did?

Posted by: Elric66 at April 7, 2008 1:54 PM

Ditto. We have a fireplace, too, and I'm going to burn a Qur'an in it next fire.

Hi Khokar! Doing good, LOL!

Burn, evil Qur'an!

Posted by: darcy at April 7, 2008 5:48 PM

Oh, and about being a liar, AK, I'm referring to your "Love for All, Hatred for None" ONE LINER. We don't believe you, nor do we believe in your false religion, your false prophet, or your false god.

Islam be gone!

Posted by: champ at April 7, 2008 3:44 PM

Brava, champ! You Go, Girl!

Posted by: darcy at April 7, 2008 5:51 PM

AK - Ha Ha Ha Ha! You're so deluded by the Con Man Mo. Pity you.

Bravo Geert!

Posted by: darcy at April 7, 2008 5:54 PM

"out of sheer envy of Islam" -Mohammedan Khokar

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha LOL! That's the funniest thing I've ever heard! ROFLMAO!

Posted by: darcy at April 7, 2008 5:58 PM

Hitler’s admiration for Islam

"Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers
-already, you see, the world had already fallen into
the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing
Christianity! -then we should in all probability have
been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which
glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh
Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic
races would have conquered the world. Christianity
alone prevented them from doing so."


p. 667 "Hitler's Table Talk; 1941-1944" translated by
N. Cameron and R.H. Stevens, Enigma Books (1953)

Winston Churchill on Islam

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
— Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

Posted by: Odyessus at April 7, 2008 6:31 PM

Hey, Darcy! Trolls are out in force today! :-D

Posted by: champ at April 7, 2008 6:37 PM

....out in "full" force....

Posted by: champ at April 7, 2008 6:39 PM

AK's "Islam envy" is like "penis envy", one more bizarre psychological projection of an internal quirk onto others.

Islam: the envy of headhunters everywhere.

*~@):~{>

Posted by: profitsbeard at April 7, 2008 6:43 PM

A Khokar,

I admire your spirit and determination in remaining in this forum. Stick with it, and I think you fill eventually understand the consensus view of the posters here.

In your note above you refer to Wilders' film in the context of "....spread(ing) a dislike phobia against the believers of 'Latest Divine Words of Holy Quran' which is revealed by our God Almighty to supersedes all the previous denomination."

All of us here understand completely that this is the point of view adopted by Islam. But you must understand that it is precisely this view that we reject, not out of ignorance you perceive us to be guilty of, but rather because it is manifestly not true, your strenuous assertions to the contrary.

You remind me somewhat of a seatmate I once had on an airplane trip to whom I made the mistake of giving my name. He happened to be a Seventh Day Adventist, and upon learning that I didn't share his particular religious beliefs made it a point to start bombarding me with mailed copies of their "Watchtower" magazine. I have no doubt that in his heart he receives some small satisfaction believing that by sending me these materials he is helping spread "The Truth." In fact, of course, upon seeing this material in the mailbox it gets summarily thrown out along with other trash mail I receive. Your notes have a similar quality, and are rightly met with similar responses by posters here.

The world is a much richer place than could even be conceived of by a 7th century desert inhabitant such as Mohammad. With luck maybe some day your eyes will be opened and you can begin to enjoy this wonderful world we live in. It's a pretty neat place if you simply allow yourself to enjoy it. What about Judgment Day, you say. Well, what about it? Do you really think you're going to spend eternity in some Islamic "paradise?" Do you have any idea how long eternity is?

Posted by: Eastview at April 7, 2008 6:49 PM

Islam is sick and its founder is disgusting. Even Churchill pointed out that Islam makes people stupid and imbeciles, warmongering, hating, violent thugs. He even said that it continues to practice slavery. Women are considered property and less then men in value. I want to get rid of Islam, the filth that it is. Also MoHAMtheMED was the most filthiest and disgusting man ever born on this planet. I mean everything that comes out of that desert Saudi Arabia is filthy and disgusting. It destroys, pollutes the whole planet--the oil. The violent ideology that destroyed and raped and murdered millions of free people. Destroyed ancient treasures that are a loss to humanity.

Posted by: savsiv at April 7, 2008 6:58 PM

Islam is sick and its founder is disgusting. Even Churchill pointed out that Islam makes people stupid and imbeciles, warmongering, hating, violent thugs. He even said that it continues to practice slavery. Women are considered property and less then men in value. I want to get rid of Islam, the filth that it is. Also MoHAMtheMED was the most filthiest and disgusting man ever born on this planet. I mean everything that comes out of that desert Saudi Arabia is filthy and disgusting. It destroys, pollutes the whole planet--the oil. The violent ideology that destroyed and raped and murdered millions of free people. Destroyed ancient treasures that are a loss to humanity.

Posted by: savsiv

I completely agree!

Posted by: champ at April 7, 2008 9:53 PM

Do you really think you're going to spend eternity in some Islamic "paradise?" Do you have any idea how long eternity is?
Posted by: Eastview

That's a good question. I don't know either, but it's a long time to focus on sex. I mean you have to eat sometime. Besides Mohammad said only 70,000 muslims are getting into heaven. It's probably already full. What's next for the departed muslim, a waiting room? Waiting for what? One of the 70,000 to retire? For a position to open up on the big couch?
It's probably a lot like purgatory and hell at the same time. You can see Paradise through the window, but you can't get the door of the elevator to open.
Eternity is a long time to be stuck in Allah's elevator no matter how you cut it...Apostasy is the only way out...Grab the brass ring while you can...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 7, 2008 11:16 PM

Like I posted when the film came out. You hear this sound of something tearing. There is some text that says it was a phone book.

Ye, right a Koranic Yellow pages. Yellow like in the backbone. I am sure one of these days the film will be re-cut with the ending he intended. Hope there is a toilet in the scene as well.

Posted by: Im.mad.as.HELL! at April 7, 2008 11:38 PM

And Winston Churchill also described Islam as thus:

“The religion of Islam above all others was founded upon the sword … Moreover it provides incentives to slaughter, and in three continents has produced fighting breeds of men – filled with a wild and merciless fanaticism.”

And Bishop Fulton J Sheen gave us this ominous forewarning about Islam back in 1950:

"Today (1950), the hatred of the Moslem countries against the West is becoming hatred against Christianity itself. Although the statesmen have not yet taken it into account, there is still grave danger that the temporal power of Islam may return and, with it, the menace that it may shake off a West which has ceased to be Christian, and affirm itself as a great anti-Christian world Power."

As did Hilaire Belloc back in 1938:

"Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam return and with it the menace of an armed Mohammedan world, which will shake off the domination of Europeans -- still nominally Christian -- and reappear as the prime enemy of our civilization? The future always comes as a surprise, but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam."

What a pity our leaders and populations of today chose to ignore out of political correctness, the dangers these learned men knew and could see so long ago.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at April 8, 2008 5:18 AM

We need thousands and thousands of Geert's. I for one am so very happy to see one guy fighting back we need so many more!!!!! Stand behind him support him. Write him and the dutch government. Produce phamplets, flyers, web sites, radio shows, films, and anything else out there to spread the word. Do you part, hand out the books, talk about it. Hang up lists of what Islam and Jihad is all about. Write your local paper. Send these articles to people. We are under attack, they don't want the truth out until they are able to make the BIG strike. We must stop these people now. Thousands of Christians,Jews, Homosexuals, Women and any other Non-Muslims DIE everyday at the hands of these crazy people. When we are divided .. they conquer. Start a group. Freedom is worth fighting for and now is the time! Thank God for Robert and Geert and all the others that are fighting for us, even in fear of their own lives.

Posted by: Silly at April 8, 2008 8:48 AM

Muslims Proving Geert Wilders RIGHT !
Scris de antikafirphobia pe aprilie 2, 2008

Report : Innocent Non-Muslims Deserve to be KILLED & RAPED

Tuesday, April 01, 2008: A report posted on Islam Watch, a site run by Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings and hatred for unbelievers** , exposes a prominent Islamic cleric and lawyer who support extreme punishment for non-Muslims — including killing and rape.

A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters.

“Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet,” the Imam says, according to the report. “If you don’t believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain.”

The lawyer, Anjem Choudary (photo), backs up the Imam’s position, saying that all Muslims are innocent.

“You are innocent if you are a Muslim,” Choudary tells the BBC. “Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God.”

Choudary said he would NOT condemn a Muslim for any action. “As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters,” Choudary said. “I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim.” :)

The interview with Choudary can be viewed at the above link

Yet, sickeningly, crazed cleric Anjem Choudary and his wife EACH rake in more than £25,000 a year in welfare BENEFITS —while he plots to destroy British society.

** Clearly these ‘Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings of Islam’ have technically rejected the Qur’an and the Hadith & are considered apostates by mainstream Islamic clerics.

These are the two hadith that legalize the killing and raping of non-Muslims :

Sahih Bukhari, volume 5, Book 59, Number 512: Narrated Anas: Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their men killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet (prophet took her away from him after giving Dahya two women and five men in exchange for Safia, Ref. Sahih Muslim 8:3328) .

Sirat e Rasulullah, Ibn Hisham, page 766 “Safiyah was captured in the Khaibar raid and was claimed by the apostle as his share of booty.. She was then seventeen. She was groomed and made-up for the Prophet by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik. They spent the night there. In the early dawn, the Prophet suspected some movement near the tent) . He went out to enquire and saw Abu Ayyub.. He asked him what he was doing near his tent. He replied: “I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, and till recently she was an unbeliever. I was really afraid for you on her account and was guarding you.” The Prophet prayed for Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (Ibn Hisham, p. 766)

Posted by: Silly at April 8, 2008 1:05 PM

The fact that they tried to use our laws against us to prove Geert Wilders is wrong just shows how desperate they are becoming. They know they are losing. They have nothing left. Their islamist crusade is dying in front of their eyes and they have nothing to fall back on except their hatred and violence. Time for the "moderate" muslims to strike the fatal blow and impose feminism on islam. Then they can move out of the desert and into the 21st century. Come on "moderate" islam slap these idiots down and instigate a true islamic revolution.

Posted by: DaveMate at April 8, 2008 5:15 PM

Islamic Mein Kampf

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/

Posted by: Mackie at April 8, 2008 6:32 PM

Three cheers to Wilders, from a believer of reason and broad mindedness.

"You are innocent if you are a Muslim" says Choudhary.

I would say "You are a fossil if you are a Muslim, and a living marvel if you use your reason".

Posted by: proud-hindu at April 9, 2008 3:26 AM