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If you want to become an apostate, go ahead -- heh heh, just kidding
Why are Islamic countries trying to destroy freedom of speech? Why, to protect Islam -- at least in the view of Sheikh Muhammad Al-Munajid.
"Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid Warns: Freedom of Speech Might Lead to Freedom of Belief," from MEMRITV (thanks to all who sent this in):
Following are excerpts from an interview with Saudi cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid, which aired on Al-Majd TV on March 30, 2008.[...]
The problem is that they want to open a debate on whether Islam is true or not, and on whether Judaism and Christianity are false or not. In other words, they want to open up everything for debate. Now they want to open up all issues for debate. That's it. It begins with freedom of thought, it continues with freedom of speech, and it ends up with freedom of belief. So where's the conspiracy? They say: Let's have freedom of thought in Islam. Well, what do they want? They say: I think, therefore I want to express my thoughts. I want to express myself, I want to talk and say, for example, that there are loopholes in Islam, or that Christianity is the truth. Then they will talk about freedom of belief, and say that anyone is entitled to believe in whatever he wants... If you want to become an apostate – go ahead. Fancy Buddhism? Leave Islam, and join Buddhism. No problem. That's what freedom of belief is all about. They want freedom of everything. What they want is very dangerous.
[...]
Freedom of thought, within some constraints, is blessed. Islam calls for thinking, for interpretation, and for the use of the mind. But as for freedom of heresy, which allows anyone to criticize whatever he wants in Islam, saying, for example, that he does not like the punishment for apostasy, that he doesn't like the punishment for drinking alcohol, or that he does not like the punishment of stoning adulterers – this is barbarism. They ask: Why should a thief have his hand chopped off? Some of them say that this is "too much." Two-three much on you and your rotten mind. If you abolish this punishment, you will see the rise in thefts. On the other hand, people feel their property is secure because of this punishment.
Posted by Robert at April 11, 2008 8:54 AM
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"Two-three much on you and your rotten mind."
-- from the article above, quoting the Saudi cleric
"Two-three much on you"?
A Muslim curse? A Saudi curse? An Arab curse, going back to the embarrassing days of the Jahiliyaa?
Youth wants to know.
Posted by: Hugh![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 11, 2008 9:04 AM
Saudis are bona-fide dirt bags.
Mt pragmatic solution for these pinheads:
- invade their stupid country
- kill lots of them
- round up the rest and march them to reservations
- drill oil
I don't think there is a more useless culture, people, and country.
Posted by: mike trivisonno at April 11, 2008 9:23 AM
He is right. Freedom of thought and expression will destroy his culture. Freedom will bring to the front the natural human morality that most people have. Natural human morality is crushed by Islam and I look forward to the day when Islam is crushed by human decency. Lets keep the conversation going, we will win eventually if the debate never stops.
Posted by: Ruebacca at April 11, 2008 10:26 AM
"Two-three much on you and your rotten mind."
I got nothing here, folks.
Maybe this is Islamic humor.
Posted by: tanstaafl at April 11, 2008 10:50 AM
Regarding the photo:
Where did he get that miniature "Rage Boy?" I want one!
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at April 11, 2008 10:54 AM
More misunderstanders of Islam in Spain:
These inner strugglers thought jihad means 'holy war':
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080411/NEWS02/804110374
at April 11, 2008 10:56 AM
If I convert to Islam, can I dress like that?
Posted by: duh_swami at April 11, 2008 10:58 AM
Duh_swami - this is why you can marry up to four wives and as many women as "your right had possesses". One of them is bound to find that costume attractive. (pun intentional)
Posted by: tanstaafl at April 11, 2008 11:08 AM
When we finally get serious, and pork Saudi Arabia, we should banish all survivors to the outback/sand dunes/etc. Any who wish to participate in the 21st century would be required to renounce islam, mohammed, and so on. Finally, all Camello's will be razed.
(You know, similar to 'Bordello' - but staffed with dromedaries.)
Posted by: HotSpur at April 11, 2008 11:11 AM
Dear Mr. Al-Munajid,
What business is it of yours what religion I choose to follow, friendo?
Sincerely,
Mr. Hydroshock Hollowpoint, USA
Posted by: No More Ham, Ed at April 11, 2008 11:14 AM
"But as for freedom of heresy, which allows anyone to criticize whatever he wants in Islam, saying, for example, that he does not like the punishment for apostasy, that he doesn't like the punishment for drinking alcohol, or that he does not like the punishment of stoning adulterers – this is barbarism." by the learned Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid
Oohhhkaay Sheik, to criticize the barbaric punishments is barbarism? What other inverted twisted weird logic an you give us as pearls of your 'wisdom'? How about 'death for apostasy' as a sign of true barbarism in your chamber of horrors mind?
Freedom of thought, any of our freedoms, are so far removed from Islam as to leave them brain dead. The barbaric ones following in the foot steps of their 'perfect man' are perfect examples of a humanity gone so far off the limb of evolution that of their own weight it will break off. They are not even recognizable as human anymore.
at April 11, 2008 11:42 AM
Why do these Imams always look like garden trolls?
Posted by: poetcomic1 at April 11, 2008 11:55 AM
Anyone who approves "Freedom of X within constraints" or "within reason" is really saying, "In the matter of X, you may consider yourself free only if you agree with me. If you dare to deviate, I'm pulling out my scimitar."
This is "freedom" only as Muslims understand it. The rest of us have a divergent view...which, of course, is why they want to silence us.
at April 11, 2008 12:02 PM
A single candle (reason/truth) can force the obsessive darkness (ignorance/Mohammedanism) of a cave into the furthest corners. The darkness can only recoil and demand the light to be extinguished only the candle holder can douse the light or light more candles to fill the whole place with light. This is why Mohammedan demand You Tube (Jihad Tube) to remove Fitna, this is why they claim they get to control what is “responsible” Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Thought. They realize we won’t accept the ending of our freedoms but might just acquiesce to dimming the candle for “peaceful co-habitation” with, that that lurks in the darkness. I say “NO, NEVER”! I say, “ light more candles of inquiry to bring more light of knowledge to humanity in the sciences and philosophies.”
These Slimy Sheiks, Moronic Muftis and Imbecilic Imams have tried these attempts to silence the human mind before in the past in their bids for power.
{In his “Incoherence of the Philosophers”, al-Ghazali accordingly accused Muslim philosophers of “denial of revealed laws and religious confessions” and “rejection of the details of religious and sectarian [teaching], believing them to be man-made laws and embellished tricks.” He accused the Muslim philosophers al-Farabi and Avicenna of challenging “the [very] principles of religion”
At the end of “The Incoherence of the Philosophers”, al-Ghazali asks a rhetorical question about the philosophers; “Do you then say conclusively that they are infidels and THAT THE KILLING OF THOSE WHO UPHOLD THEIR BELIEFS IS OBLIGATORY?”}(source The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades pages 94-95)
This now sounds very familiar to us today too.
at April 11, 2008 12:06 PM
What a putz. This guy is doing our work for us.
Posted by: Eastview at April 11, 2008 12:22 PM
Sheik yer'mami,
the trial in Toledo is in Ohio not in Spain
Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at April 11, 2008 12:32 PM
Freedom of belief would lead to the demise of Islam, so no wonder he is against it.
Once folks realize that there is life outside the hell of Islam, then they would leave in droves heading for greener pastures; they would finally understand what hope and love are all about and cling to life for a change.
Islam needs it's members to carry out the EVIL CAUSE of Islam, so they use intimidation and threats to keep them locked in their mental prison -- otherwise these lazy leaders would have to do the dirty work themselves -- and it's better to have the minions carry out those messy suicide missions and take time off of work to protest in the streets.
The talking heads are way too busy pontificating lies and poopaganda to worry about menial labor and getting their hands dirty. Let the peons lose their lives instead. Yep, I can see why he's worried over such freedoms.
Posted by: champ at April 11, 2008 1:01 PM
The funny little guy in the right-hand bottom corner keeps signing:
"I want to sweep with you, not sleep with you."
(Do they get subtitled Seinfeld in Saudi Arabia?)
Posted by: profitsbeard at April 11, 2008 1:04 PM
"Saudi cleric: Freedom of speech might lead to freedom of belief"
Yep. He's got it.
Posted by: FreeSpeech at April 11, 2008 1:07 PM
Regarding the photo, I think he's just explaining the size of the fish he once caught.
As for islam, if it's so great and peace loving, why does it fear freedom of choice?
Posted by: The Cool Ghoul at April 11, 2008 1:10 PM
Why do these Imams always look like garden trolls?
Posted by: poetcomic1
Because they are?
Posted by: FreeSpeech at April 11, 2008 1:17 PM
A mainstream Saudi cleric stated mainstream Islamic beliefs:
Freedom of thought, within some constraints, is blessed. Islam calls for thinking, for interpretation, and for the use of the mind. But as for freedom of heresy, which allows anyone to criticize whatever he wants in Islam, saying, for example, that he does not like the punishment for apostasy, that he doesn't like the punishment for drinking alcohol, or that he does not like the punishment of stoning adulterers – this is barbarism. They ask: Why should a thief have his hand chopped off? Some of them say that this is "too much." Two-three much on you and your rotten mind. If you abolish this punishment, you will see the rise in thefts. On the other hand, people feel their property is secure because of this punishment.
That's their weakness. According to their own "religion", they can never modify, modernize, or moderate their beliefs. They are eternally stuck with the immutable beliefs described in the holy, holy Qur'an and the ahadith almost 1,400 years ago.
This is where Islamic belief inevitably leads. They can name-call and browbeat all they want, they can try to silence critics using the courts or using a knife, they can rage and protest and riot, but at some point, they have to explain their beliefs. That's why it will inexorably lead to these "Gotcha!" moments.
Two-three much on him and his rotten mind, too.
Posted by: special_guest at April 11, 2008 1:22 PM
Freedom of thought for Muslims is something the Demoncrats abhor supporting.
Iraq is the kline in the sand between them and us. The Freedom of thought vs. the loss thereof.
Shall nwe leave and let them continue to change us? Or, do we stay and make them change theirs?
Only the Demoncrats could delude themselves into thinking the war would be over before it was time to "take over".
the Military campaign is so like our wars with the Western Tribes. The old divide and Conquer. Give aid and comfort to the friendly and make war on the non. or at least make their life miserable enough to force them to quit. One or more tribes at at time.
The only difference between then and now has been the voice's of New England have Migrated to infest other areas of the Country.
It stands to reason that the New England mindset find itself on such a pedestal. It was easy to absolve their own ancestors degradations as being at the behest of the Crown. Not right thinking Americans.
Demoncrats and the love of Tribalism. Prom dates to the Dance in Hell.
Posted by: flowerknife_us
at April 11, 2008 1:28 PM
that he does not like the punishment for apostasy, that he doesn't like the punishment for drinking alcohol, or that he does not like the punishment of stoning adulterers – this is barbarism.
Pure Islamic logic. It's not barbaric to stone a woman to death, but to not like that punishment 'is' barbaric. And this coming from a guy wearing expensive threads. In the US there is a law about cruel and unusual punishment. It's debatable as to what is 'unusual', but 'cruel' speaks for itself, and is easily recognized, even a dog recognizes cruelty. Islam recognizes cruelty just fine, and in fact seems to prefer it. This is due, no doubt, to the numerous examples of how to give infidels a 'terrible punishment', as directed by the Quran and the examples of Mohammad. Building a fire on Kinnah's chest and stirring the embers, and similar acts by 'The Sons of Allah', have continued from Mohammad's time, to this very day. It is better for a US soldier in Iraq to fight to the death, rather than be captured.
But according to the guy in the cheap suit, if I don't like these punishments, I'm the barbarian...
Uh huh....sure...
at April 11, 2008 1:47 PM
Freedom of thought, within some constraints, is blessed. Islam calls for thinking, for interpretation, and for the use of the mind. But as for freedom of heresy, which allows anyone to criticize whatever he wants in Islam, saying, for example, that he does not like the punishment for apostasy, that he doesn't like the punishment for drinking alcohol, or that he does not like the punishment of stoning adulterers – this is barbarism. They ask: Why should a thief have his hand chopped off? Some of them say that this is "too much." Two-three much on you and your rotten mind. If you abolish this punishment, you will see the rise in thefts. On the other hand, people feel their property is secure because of this punishment.
I guess if you're a barbarian, barbarism seems normal, and civility seems like barbarism.
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at April 11, 2008 2:05 PM
"Freedom of speech might lead to freedom of belief"
At least the Man's honest. He, like most Muslim clerics, know that Islam can only survive and prosper where ignorance is imposed on a society. There can't be any greater danger to Islamic tyrany, than the freedom to think.
at April 11, 2008 2:06 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how liberals grovel so much to these people.
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at April 11, 2008 2:08 PM
Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid is the poster child for why all Muslims should be barred from the West. He managed, in one sentence, to say that the First Amendment is meaningless to all Muslims, which would suggest that Muslims can never be American citizens. What would Barack Obama or Keith Ellison have to say about this cleric - that he is just one of the "extremists who have hijacked the religion of peace"?
It begins with freedom of thought, it continues with freedom of speech, and it ends up with freedom of belief.
Posted by: PMK at April 11, 2008 3:44 PM
I don't think there is a more useless culture, people, and country.
Posted by: mike trivisonno
--
"palestine"/pakistan?
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 11, 2008 4:47 PM
Where did he get that miniature "Rage Boy?" I want one!
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog
--
the bobblehead one..
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 11, 2008 4:49 PM
"Two-three much on you and your rotten mind."
The guy was watching the movie "The number 23" and it went to his head, better than reading the KKKorag. Any day.
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 11, 2008 4:59 PM
(You know, similar to 'Bordello' - but staffed with dromedaries.)
Posted by: HotSpur
--
I'm gonna report you to PETA, friend! LOL Ricki Lake is gonna come and lecture you and throw red paint..
But they never protest when it's the mahometans.. see their barbaric way fo butchering livestock.. as if they're learning and practicing for the jihad.. head cutting and all.
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 11, 2008 5:09 PM
These inner strugglers thought jihad means 'holy war':
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080411/NEWS02/804110374
Posted by: sheik yer'mami
---
Why is it these guys are invariably BUTT-UGLY?! They look inbred to me.. the product of too many arranged marriages..
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 11, 2008 5:18 PM
And WHY were they in this country in the first place?!!
We need expulsions NOW!
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 11, 2008 5:21 PM
Where'd he get that cool embroidery for his sleeve? It looks real shiek!
Posted by: n1cholson at April 11, 2008 5:26 PM
Could "two-three much on you" be a reference to the time it took for the entire Qur'an to be revealed to Muhammad? No other possibility occurs to me.
Posted by: Hugh at April 11, 2008 5:30 PM
Wow. Get a load of the Barbarian.
Posted by: darcy at April 11, 2008 5:52 PM
What I want to know is..who the heck is the little guy coming out of the hole in the table:)
Posted by: Jon at April 11, 2008 5:54 PM
"Two-three much on you and your rotten mind."
No, it's YOUR "rotten mind." And what is the beginning of your sentence supposed to mean? What's "2-3 much on you?" Please explain, Mr. Barbarian.
Posted by: darcy at April 11, 2008 5:55 PM
What I want to know is..who the heck is the little guy coming out of the hole in the table:)
Posted by: Jon at April 11, 2008 5:54 PM
LOL. And with the check tablecloth on his head!
at April 11, 2008 5:57 PM
LOL, Jon!
It's a Talking Sheik Doll - I hear they're the rave in Saudi.
Posted by: champ at April 11, 2008 6:44 PM
I wonder if the guy in the bottom corner is anything like SNL's Garrett Morris as President of the New York School for the Hard of Hearing on Weekend Update.
Posted by: MarisolJW at April 11, 2008 7:03 PM
Good one, Marisol!
Posted by: champ at April 11, 2008 7:17 PM
Marisol,
"I wonder if the guy in the bottom corner is anything like SNL's Garrett Morris as President of the New York School for the Hard of Hearing on Weekend Update."
Nice call. For some reason, I guess the surreal nature of what the guy says, I was thinking more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M4_XZ3FLHw&feature=PlayList&p=4DEA343577974CA9&index=0"> Mystery Science Theater 3000
at April 11, 2008 7:22 PM
I seem to be HTML impaired.
It works when previewed.
at April 11, 2008 7:28 PM
Why do these Imams always look like garden trolls?
Posted by: poetcomic1
----
The kind my dachshund likes to lift his leg and let go on...
at April 11, 2008 8:40 PM
Marisol,
Loved the SNL reference. You reminded me just how funny the originals were.
at April 11, 2008 10:55 PM
I really believe that Islamo-Facist awareness week would be far more effective if organizers invited people like Muhammad Al-Munajid to speak on universitiy campuses. If told that U.S. students were badly in need of his enlightend interpretation of Islam, I seriously doubt that Muhammad Al-Munajid, or any other Muslim cleric, could resist the temptation to bring the truth to Infidel campuses.
at April 11, 2008 11:26 PM
If you click on the picture it takes you to MEMRI TV. The clown in the corner is signing what the holely one is saying. What I find interesting is that it is a man. Guess why it's a man and not a woman? Because Islam would not allow a woman to speak for a man much less a holely one.
Here is another failing of their god allah. They say that he can do whatever he wants including lie and change his mind. Which is un-god like at best and pretentious and deceitful.
What I understand about the true and living God is that he never changes. Always tells the truth. Will not violate our will and can at the same time transcend our actions. I don't see any of these virtues in allah. In fact I see just the opposite.
James1:17
Whatever is good and perfect comes to us from God above, who created all heaven's lights. Unlike them, he never changes or casts shifting shadows.
James1 : 17
كل ما هو جيد والكمال ويأتي الينا من الله أعلاه ، والذي خلق السماء للجميع الانوار. وخلافا لها ، وانه لم يحدث تغييرات او يلقي الظلال التحول
at April 12, 2008 12:02 AM
A couple of posters wondered about the two-three much on your rotten mind phrase.
Just guessing here, but imagine one child saying to another thats too much, and the other smartly retorting, well you're three much, I think it was a confabulation of the word too meaning also and the number two, which the imam did one better by saying three.
I know it sounds lame but thats all I got.
Posted by: stickman at April 12, 2008 12:53 AM
The scholar is correct in fearing free speech, since there is much to criticize in Islam. Once the average man and woman sees all the theological and historical holes in Islamic theology they will rightly conclude that Mohammad was not a prophet. The "top dogs" in Islam governments will see their power lost when people begin to breath the fresh air of freedom.
What is needed is more satellites and satellite programming focused on getting the truth to people in Muslim lands. Ironically the US government's hands are tied in this respect due to the separation of Church and state. Governments could however fund the expansion of high signal satellites for other reasons then let private groups to broadcast programs critical of Islam or even Christian programming into Muslim lands.
Imams and Mullahs know that all people have brains and many will leave Islam if they get criticisms. An Information Crusade must be waged against Muslim lands along with a focus on freedom of religion. The weakness of the Islamic movement is that not all Muslims are idiots, and when they see the rational criticism of Islam, many will leave. Let's help them!
Posted by: James Martel at April 12, 2008 10:54 AM
"Two-three much on you and your rotten mind."
OK...this one is easy....
Muslims can only count to 23, but they do it differently than the rest of the world because anything than higher than 10 is considered "unclean", or filthy kafir counting; so by placing the words "two" & "three" side-by-side the not only keep allah content, but the natives don't get restless either. Follow me so far?
So for a Muslim to say that your rotten brain is the highest number known TO THEM, is saying that your brain is pretty rotten, which is offering the greatest insult to ones intelligence that is possible.
Happy to be of assistance. :-)
Posted by: champ at April 12, 2008 7:14 PM
still.........two three on you? Maybe its twenty three skidoo?
Posted by: tanstaafl at April 12, 2008 7:39 PM
"Regarding the photo, I think he's just explaining the size of the fish he once caught."
Posted by: The Cool Ghoul
LOL. You beat me to it. "I once caught a fish THIIIISSS big." straight out of the movie "Dave".
Posted by: Eastview at April 12, 2008 8:04 PM
Eastview
so many of these preaching sheikh/ preaching imam/ mullah clips would lend themselves to the 'double takes' approach. 'I once caught a fish THIIIISS big', as a subtitle for this frame, is not insulting, it's simply funny.
Offtopic - the Australian comedy crew, 'The Chaser', inspired by the sorts of signs one sometimes sees outside churches, with clever slogans, decided that this should be done for Other Religions. So they did a humour SWAT raid - they sneaked up to a mosque here in Oz and set up, just outside, a large (portable) sign reading as follows "99 % terror free!". Another mosque copped the following: "Welcome to Burkas Backyard" (to get the joke you have to know that Aussie TV runs a popular gardening show called 'Burke's Backyard').
(Islam was not their only target - I don't know whether they tackled the Buddhists or the Hindus - I do know that they also provided at least one synagogue with a sign proclaiming "One Week Only! - 10 % Off Your Son's *****]".)
I don't know what reaction they got - but I suspect that the Chaser's Jewish targets would have laughed, while the Muslims seethed and reported a 'hate' crime.
Which brings me back on-topic. As an Australian, I am absolutely shocked by this Saudi cleric's arrogant assumption that freedom of speech and freedom of thought ought not to exist.
For in Australia, freedom to 'take the mickey', and the freedom to believe or not believe as one chooses, is a big part of our basic culture.
Once Australians grasp that a great many Muslims are NOT 'underdogs' but instead aim to become the tallest of tall poppies, and the most hypocritically wowserish of wowsers, puffed up with presumption and pride, placing themselves and their beliefs and practices beyond all question, declaring that THEY MUST NOT BE LAUGHED AT, hell-bent on punishing people merely for the innocent enjoyment of beer and bikinis, coldly determined to kill anyone who tries to leave Islam and anyone who dares to question it or poke fun at it...then...the free ride will be over.
My fellow Australians - let's send this particular article, about this anti-freedom-of-speech Saudi Sheikh (who is also rhapsodising about the benefits of cutting off hands and stoning adulterers) to our Education ministers and our University chancellors.
at April 13, 2008 7:11 PM
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