What a strange psychosis afflicts the muslim mind. To always have to be meddling in everyone else's life is such a task. No wonder nothing is ever accomplished in the middle east. EVERYTHING is a provocation. We should just get used to that.

Posted by: Jewel Atkins at April 12, 2008 8:06 AM

Well Sheikh Yousuf al-Qaradawi forgets is that what Pope Benedict XVI was simply OBEYING the COMMAND of Jesus to "go out and make disciples of all the nations", which includes baptizing those who were Muslims.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 12, 2008 8:13 AM

“We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

Translates to:
If you don't love us, we're going to kill you! (?)
If you don't join Islam you're hostile.

A public baptism is a hostile act but the call to prayer on public streets is not?

If a public baptism is a hostile act against Islam then how about:
- cleaning your feet in a public restroom in the middle of the day (didn't shower that morning?)
- dropping to the floor in the middle of an airport (chapel not close enough?)

Given the umma's jihad against the West, these can be considered acts hostile to non-Muslims. You keep provoking us with your hostility.

Posted by: PMK at April 12, 2008 8:34 AM

I don't see why the Vatican should have anything to do with Islam in the first place. The Roman Catholic Church certainly does not have anything to do with other satanic cults whose practices typically include ritual murder (e.g. beheadings) and homicidal suicide, the slaying of defectors, paedophilia etc.

Posted by: StrulZigelboim at April 12, 2008 8:36 AM

Sheikh Yousuf "There is no compulsion in religion" al-Qaradawi is a compleat idiot. It figures that he would head the IUM and ECFR, those Islamic bastions of intellectual rigor and prowess.

The genius asserts that "that person," (Magdi Allam) "has been a Catholic for more than five years." Uh, wrong. One only becomes a Catholic by being BAPTIZED into the Church. Qaradawi must not have read his catechism.

"The problem is that he was baptised by the Pope in public and in front of satellite TV cameras. This is a hostile act against Islam."

May there be many more such hostile acts against Islam, a form of "religion" that HATES freedom of conscience, speech, and association, in other words, against the sacralized screechings of a 7th century murdering Arabian madman who claimed to be a prophet.

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 8:39 AM

" “We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

Apparently the speaker is unaware of the ongoing cleansing and eradication programs in Muslim countries being carried out by Muslims..In some countries the percentage of Non Muslims now approaches zero...The Muslims certainly use fear and violence to accomplish this...I hope others leave the embrace of the the Death Cult..

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 8:45 AM

Did this scholar consider Jeremiah Wright's leaving Islam and his subsequent rise to prominence as the head of a Christian church to be similarly provocative?

Posted by: PMK at April 12, 2008 9:14 AM

I think that hostile acts are more like the things we see here almost on a daily basis: beheading schoolgirls on the way home from school, gunning down bishops, attacking a Christian shopkeeper, after going to retrieve a dustpan after sweeping up a small pile of rubbish and leaving it by a mosque, and on and on ad nauseam.

Baptizing a convert is part of the Pope's calling. Get over it

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at April 12, 2008 9:24 AM

Jeremiah Wright...what an anti America slug he is...besides we already know...you can never leave Islam if you are a Muslim..

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 9:27 AM

Of course, if a couple of Qaradawi's thugs catch up with Allam and chop off his head, that will be all right. It's an ideal illustration of the difference between Christianity and Islam: the former sprinkles a little water on one's head; the latter chops off one's head.

Posted by: ebonystone at April 12, 2008 9:35 AM

The scholar also blamed the West for worsening relations with Islam. “We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

I soooo sorry for not being able to see you seeking peace, but the dust and debris from your last bombing, beheading, riot, etc. etc. just clouds my vision of you err... peaceful efforts of Taqqiya.

And if living as FULL CITIZENS of the world exercising our RIGHTS of FREEDOM of SPEECH, FREEDOM of RELIGION, and FREEDOM of THOUGHT are provoking to you, grow up "scholar Sheikh Yousuf al-Qaradawi".

On the aside when the heck did pounding your head on the carpet and memorizing a religious book make a person a scholar? Religious Zealot is more like it.

Posted by: senor doeboy at April 12, 2008 9:41 AM

Qaradawi said the public baptism has worsened relations between the Vatican and IUMS.

Let's see. The Pope's baptizing a convert to Christianity is a provocative act. But the Friday mosque-services rantings by imams all over the world are not provocative; rather, the imams are free to "practice" their Wahhabist version of Islam.

What provokes Muslims, of course, is the very existence of any who don't follow MTP. That's "the logic" which these jihaodmaniacs want us infidels to wrap our minds around.

And this is the same Qaradawi who issued the coded fatwa against Wafa Sultan, too.

BTW, today's WaPo carried this article, entitled "Saudi Interfaith Summit Faces Challenges: King's Ambitious Plan, However, Elicits Some Prompt and Vocal Support at Home, Abroad."

Challenges? I guess! **snerk**

Posted by: Always On Watch at April 12, 2008 9:44 AM

Islam's representation of Jesus is the ultimate insult. The ludicrous 'cross switch' explanation of how Jesus didn't really die on the cross, the making of him into a 'Prophet of Allah' and the way Muslims have expunged the entire sublime message of Christianity while leaving in fourth-rate Gnostic 'infant narrative' miracles that would have appealed to the illiterate Muhammad.

THAT is why the Church should draw a line and say NO you ARE IN ERROR come to the Truth. That is the duty of any Christian - to simply state that the Jesus of Christianity is the true Jesus.

Never forget. Islam believes Jesus is in that Great Brothel in the Sky effing his brains out and stuffing his face as his 'reward'. Allah can't offer any more. There is no 'gazing upon the Face of God, no ineffable sublimity or 'unity with the sacred'. Allah is aloof, untouchable and the most Allah can offer his 'faithful' is virgins, little boys and tasty food.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at April 12, 2008 9:53 AM

I watch the news out of the middle east service which places english subtitles on the stuff spewing out from islamic countries: muslims on their TV shows saying nothing BUT controversial stuff from "allah says to beat your wife its in the quran--read it!" to "islam must dominate the world and force through jihad the conversion to allah (ie islam)" to "infidels are pigs and dogs which is a punishment by allah and I know of one man who was made into a pig by allah for rejecting islam" to "when islam dominates all remaining christians and jews must pay the tax and wear distinctive clothing" to "if you preach that islam is not peaceful then you deserve to be stoned!" on and on.

And baptizing some fellow through his OWN FREE WILL decided he wants to be a catholic now and not islamic is PROVOCATIVE?

Islamic people out there--our media might be playing along with you but WE SEE YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE.

Islam = Nazism

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at April 12, 2008 9:56 AM

"This is a hostile act against Islam,” he told Doha-based Al Jazeera television."

LOL. Thanks for my morning laugh, cabbagehead.

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 10:01 AM

I would love to say to the Shiek, face-to-face, "The existence of Islam is a hostile act against the entire world."

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 10:05 AM

Islam seeks provocations in order to justify its own need for violent expansion. Ooop, just saying the truth of that is a provocation. As an Nigerian friend of mine once said, "You can't talk with Muslims."

Posted by: James Martel at April 12, 2008 10:32 AM

Caution: Muslims easily enflamed!

Posted by: maryrose at April 12, 2008 10:33 AM

Really Zaka?

Moslim waffen-SS / Muslim SS and the history

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RtWDIT8CcAY&feature=related

Posted by: Elric66 at April 12, 2008 10:54 AM

Well said, poetcomic1.

Posted by: undaunted at April 12, 2008 11:03 AM

"And yes it is historical Fact that Adolf
hated Islam and loved catholic Austria!

Posted by: zakariyyaazzam "

hahahahahah...you are too funny!!

It is a fact Hitler loved Muslims...He was an admirer and consort with the Grand Mufti of Jeruselam...It was the Muslims who suggested to Hitler that he deport the Jews to the Middle East, where the Muslims would attack and kill the Jews...Hitler declined, he wanted to kill the JEws too...it was then that the Grand Mufti of Jeruselam and other Muslims leaders helped Hitlers gang of thugs design the deadly consentration camps and ultimately the gas chambers that killed millions of people...In fact, Hitler employed some of the most ruthless Muslims as prison guards in the consentration camps...and there were indeed elite Nazi SS units comprised of Muslims, who revelled at the opportunity to round up Jews destined for extermination in the Muslim designed death camps...I suggest you go to the History Channel and buy the film "Sadaam and the third Reich" for actual film footage of Hitler smiling and hugging the Grand Mufti of Jersulem...other films are availiable showing the Muslim / Nazi SS units actually helping the German Nazi SS units load Jews into railroad cattle cars...it is another fact the MUslims and the Nazis shared terror tactics and torture methods...they were, in fact, brothers in arms...

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 11:24 AM

It's time for a war don't you think?

Posted by: RayTonic at April 12, 2008 11:27 AM

The scholar also blamed the West for worsening relations with Islam. “We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

In what ways have they tried to seek peace with the Vatican? By holding a gun to their head and telling them to submit?

Not the kind of peace that I would want.

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at April 12, 2008 11:50 AM

zakariyyaazzam -- Well, our muslim friend has been reincarnated into another life with another name!

But where did he get this name from? Did he just close his eyes and start typing? Did he fall asleep while typing, and that's what resulted?

Anyhow, zakariyyaazzam, any friend of mohammed, who had sex with a nine-year-old girl, is no friend of mine.

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at April 12, 2008 11:58 AM

poetcomic1,

I share your outrage over how Mohammad perverted the Gospel narratives to suit his own grubby and self-exalting purposes. If he had he been an honest man and not an egomaniacal deceiver, this illiterate would have requested that his scribes read to him a canonical Gospel account, Luke's, for example, to learn what orthodox Christianity believes to be true about the birth and early childhood of Jesus, as well as his very real crucifiction. He then could have ditched the Gnostic gobbledygook and told his angellic muse "Jibreel" to go back to hell from whence he came, but he didn't. How could he? He was ALLAH'S PROPHET, the best ever, who would never play second fiddle to any previous prophet, not even one who worked miracles (while he had none on his resume, other than the absurd claim that his Qur'an was a miracle in itself.)

IMO, this theft of the Christian story -six centuries old by the time Mohammad stole it- is the most damnable of the many crimes that Mohammad perpetrated on the unsuspecting, because in so doing he cheated BILLIONS of souls out of knowing the truth about Jesus of Nazareth.

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 12:05 PM

From the article:

PROMINENT scholar Sheikh Yousuf al-Qaradawi has denounced Pope Benedict’s baptism of a Muslim-born journalist during the last Easter Mass at the Vatican as a “provocative and hostile act against Muslims”.
______

I sure wish prominant Christian leaders (or anyone, for that matter) would stand up as strongly and forcibly in defense of Christianity in the face of TRULY provacative and hostile acts by Muslims against Christians. Remember when those two Fox News journalists were captured by some terrorist group in Gaza and forced to convert on camera to Islam at the threat of death?? I don't recall hearing much controversy surrounding that, from either Christian leaders nor Muslim leaders. Now THAT was a truly hostile, dispicable act. This free-will conversion to the love of Christ under Catholicism is about the most peaceful act on Earth. But leave it to Muslims to show their right-is-wrong, up-is-down backasswards mentality to pervert it.

Posted by: JenBee at April 12, 2008 12:09 PM

Qaradawi caused something of a storm here in the UK when the Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, publicly embraced him, even though he's publicly supported suicide bombers and has some pretty harsh words to say about gays, including that they should be dropped from buildings, or whatever delightful method of execution is favoured by these people. Livingstone has been a supporter of gay rights but really blotted his copybook when he did that.

Posted by: AndyA at April 12, 2008 12:12 PM

The problem is that he was baptised by the Pope in public and in front of satellite TV cameras.

...that he was baptised...

Let's just leave that one alone for the moment, since you claim to not be offended by his conversion.

...by the Pope...

So a cardinal or bishop or other clergy would have been okay in public, etc.?

...in public...

Now I think we are getting somewhere. The Pope baptized others, but not the "he" you are concerned with. A Muslim.

...and in front of satellite TV cameras...

Regular cable would have been okay. No? Hand held video cams uploading to YouTube? No?

Oh, it's the world wide brazen flaunting of a murtadd being celebrated as a prized possession, the first of many to be so lauded and paraded that's got you upset. Sending the message that it's okay to be an apostate to the entire planet, that we're not afraid of you or afraid to let you know that we're not afraid.

So you really are offended by his conversion.

Well, we're really excited about it and he is proud. We're going to celebrate. Even the angels are rejoicing.

Sorry, you'll just have to deal with it. It's God's will.

What are you going to do when he does 10 at a time? A hundrend? A thousand?

Sure, it's going to become very fashionable to be a former Muslim being publically baptized by the Pope in public in front of satellite TV cameras as a Christian. So some will probably just be whoring their insincere wet heads in front of the cameras. Not to worry, God will sort them out. But for now, I think every willing Muslim apostate should be publically baptized in front of the largest collection of widest distribution media that can be found, by the most recognizable available qualified individual to do it. It could start as a competition on the televangelist shows, who baptized the most Muslim apostates this week. Then, hundreds of millions watching "American Apostate" or "Britain's Got Apostates!" Finally, some TV worth watching.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 12:34 PM

Is this guy railing against the same WCC that is the biggest incarnation of the anti-Israel Religious Left? If he thinks even they're crusaders, then there are absolutely no Christians this guy would even condescend to talk to.
Thanks, Mr. Spencer, for bringing to light once again the supremacist double standard these sorts of people are promoting.

Posted by: ppeter at April 12, 2008 12:42 PM

Could somebody hose this guy down and give him some lithium?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 12:55 PM

Which is it to be this time? 'Baptism rage' or 'Vatican rage'?

Posted by: Sencit at April 12, 2008 12:56 PM

The ravings of "zakariyyaazzam" are nothing short of a gibbering voice from the outer darkness - blind fury, raging unreason, gnashing of teeth. As Clement of Alexandria said (Protrepticus, cap. xii, 94), ignorance (hê agnoia) is a form of madness (manias eidos). What can one say of ignorant madness elevated to the status of a religion with millions of fanatical devotees?

Posted by: StrulZigelboim at April 12, 2008 1:11 PM

In the real world most people don't really care about religion one iota but those that do can go from one to the other if they so choose without being killed

I saw this man's conversion as a good thing.

I am not a Christian. But I do however feel that if the whole Muslim world would become Christian or Jewish we would not have all these problems we have today.

Imagine a world without Islam. It's easy if you try.

Posted by: avisegev67 at April 12, 2008 1:14 PM

“We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

In short, the Vatican and the World Council of Churches won't acknowledge Mohammad as a Prophet. That's what really sticks in their throats.

The baptism of Majdi Allam is a hostile act because it suggest' that Islam is not the path to God and salvation. The only response from the Vatican, and other Christian leaders, that would satisfy Sheikh Qaradawi, is when they all worship in the Mosque in Mecca.

Anything short of that will be interpreted as provocative and hostile act against Muslims.

Posted by: rational at April 12, 2008 1:14 PM

1400 years of history proves that hostility is the corner-stone of Islam. 'Religion-of-Peace' is deception, the other leg of Islam, only fools like Dubya and Condi fall for. (In dubya's case, millions of petro-dollars make him a corrupt fool, but a fool none-the-less).

Posted by: Alert at April 12, 2008 1:21 PM

zakariyyaazzam,

Would it suprise you that there was a Muslim mufti who was befriended by Hitler? Goes to show that the Muslims had sided with the Nazis during WWII.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 12, 2008 1:23 PM

Concerned Citizen,

Good grief, is the moon due to go full? It seems like during the last few days there has been some crazy postings being posted by a few trolls who do not have all their marbles.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 12, 2008 1:33 PM

Qaradawi: Pope's baptism of Muslim convert a "provocative and hostile act against Muslims"

... but there is no compulsin in religion, right? Oh. it is another of those 'you-have-to-be-a-muslim-to-understand' lie?

Posted by: Alert at April 12, 2008 1:35 PM

“We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

___________

That's right folks - freedom of speech and religion is an act of hostility.

This is why Islam is simply not compatible, as a political institution, in a democracy that values free, open, and public discourse.

"Seek peace?" Oh - you mean 9/11, Spain, London, and the children at the Russian school. The shelling of Israel and the beheading of hostages?

Oh yes - with their brand of peace - who needs war?

Posted by: Monkeywho at April 12, 2008 2:21 PM

"Many muslims in islamic areas opposed Nazism!"

oh really...here...let me help you out...those who helped, supported or other collaborated with the Nazis include:

Mohamma Amin Al-Husani, one of the founders of Syrias Ba'ath Party.

Gamal Abdell Nasser, future Egyptian President

Nassiri Nasser, Gamal's brother who translated Hitlers "Mein Kampf" into Arabic describing HItler in Glowing terms.

Anwar Sadat, future Egyptian President

Hassan Al-Banna , Muslim Brotherhood supporter of the Nazis

Abd Al-Munim Adb Al-Rauf, another leader of the Muslim Brotherhood

Dr Ibrahim Hasa, the 2nd deputy of Ikhwan

IN 1942, five Muslim tribes in the Caucasus openly welcomed the Nazis..they were the Chechens, the Ingushes, the Balkans, the Karachais, and the Kabardines.

Haj Hamin, a prominent Muslim leader who helped develope Hitlers' "Final Solution"

Anton Sa'Ada of the Syrian Nationalist party, who styled himself as the Furher of the Syrian Nation

Palistinians supported the Nazis, as did Egypt, Iraq, Syria, and Iran. In fact, so intense wasr the Shah's identificatgion wht the Third Reich that in 1935 he renamed his country "Iran"...which in Farsi means Sryan and refers to the Proto-INdo-European lineage that Nazi radical theorists and Persian ethnologists cherished..

The Mufti of Jeruselam, Haj Amin Al-Husseini, who helped advise Himmler and Eichman in the systematic extermination of the Jews.

(the Mufti in 1920 organized thousands of Arabs to attack Jews in Jeruselam,, during this uprising Jews were killed and Jewish women Raped.

Rashid Ali Al-Kaylani, Prime Minister of Iraq favored the Nazis, he even asked Hitler for permission to deal with the Jews

Some Nazi Muslim units who participated in killing the Jews and acting as brutal prison guards include:

the 13th Div, known as Hanjar
the 21st Div, known as Skanderberg
the 23rd Div, known as Kama

at least 27 Waffen divions had large numbers of Muslim soldiers.

Muslim Croatian units assigned to the Nazi army massacred hundreds of thousands of Serbian Orthodox Christians.

Inth the concentration camp know as Jacenovac over 200,000 people died at the hands of the Muslim guards...

I could go on...but you might get my drift...Muslims did support Hitler..they certainly did not oppose him..

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 2:22 PM

"he renamed his country "Iran"...which in Farsi means Sryan"

correction..it meany ARyan....ring any bells?...

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 2:26 PM

Big deal, Qaradawi thinks that every infidel breath, is a hostile act. Breathe deeply Infidels.

Posted by: Pelayo at April 12, 2008 2:33 PM

I thought the whole thing was an acclamation of his faith. My mistake.

Posted by: Mystical Time Traveler at April 12, 2008 2:33 PM

Everytime the Pope says Mass he declares his beliefs (as do all the members of the congregation). Those beliefs are not those of Muslims. This is not news to anyone and it should not be news to Muslims. In truth very few people in the West share the beliefs of the Muslims. What Pope did on Easter was no more a hostile act than what he does every day.

In the West changing religions is not a crime and Muslims are showing their implicit hostility by making it an issue.

Posted by: Jerry M at April 12, 2008 2:37 PM

At what point can his IP address be forwarded to authorities. For all I know this guy is the Muslim with three wives four houses down from me in suburban Minnesota.

This isn't a homegrown, but it sure is a motherland problem waiting to happen.

This is why we can't talk to them. This is why Obama is an idiot. They DO NOT HOLD the same values and cannot even follow the debate and observations of this thread.

It makes me wish all devout Muslims were replaced with Geico cavemen. We'd have a much better society.

I just saw on the History channel today how the ancient Macedonians, as late as 300AD, had created elementary batteries. They found one in Baghdad. Gosh, I wonder what happened to that wonderful technology. Swallowed up, like all else inevitably, in the intellectual black hole of Islam.

Posted by: winoceros at April 12, 2008 2:46 PM

"Stop talking about the Past!""

...the past is directly related to the now which is directly affecting the future...

It is Islam which seeks to remove or alter or deny the past, upset the now and to dominate the future...

Those who ignore the connections of the past to the now will suffer from their stupidity in the future...

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 2:56 PM

'This Webpage is about "violent" Jihad Today!!
It tries to convince people that Jihad=WAR
is madness and morally wrong and Evil!'

Wrong again oh Dizzywon, from the webpages own comments:

"Jihad Watch is dedicated to bringing public attention to the role that jihad theology and ideology plays in the modern world, and to correcting popular misconceptions about the role of jihad and religion in modern-day conflicts. We hope to alert people of good will to the true nature of the present global conflict."

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 3:05 PM

Muslims are Perturb for The Acts of Old

Pope's baptism of Muslim convert is provocative and hostile act against Muslims or not but I only know that in the fields of education if they say that PhD qualification is superior to the Graduation or High school education; then let it be…that Islamic Teaching certainly stands superior in the context that it excel in the line of all the other earlier Teachings in religion and supersede them accordingly. Need less to say that Islam bears bigger responsibilities on its shoulders to play a bigger role toward the forthcoming grand schemes of God Almighty… predestined for the mankind in the future on this planet.

All the higher teachings; their qualities and achievement invariably rest on the conduct of students and their ability shown at their foundations schooling. Considering that up bringing and grooming in our religion is spread over centuries; matter of fact is that Islam finds that earlier on there were very few quality, brilliant or devotee students (followers) found in the previous denominations. Rather the Principal above us; our Almighty God was not totally happy with their conduct. They lacked required esteem, obedience and perseverance. They were rejected by Him altogether. Consequently followers of Islam end up with the severer admonishing and hard work to bring about the positive results. Quran is full of stringent warnings from Almighty where earlier denominations disappointed Him a lot and proved to be the worst defiant lot. Even after getting ample warnings they failed to mend their bad behaviours. Consequently God was compelled to punish them severely for their doings.

Present day I find that lot of my friend representing old denominations, pass very sarcastic, grievous and provocative remarks about Quran’s and various admonishing that it contains. Most of them are fond of mocking even the Holy Prophet of Islam; but they failed to understand that it is all the doing of their ancestors which are high lighted in shape of admonishing here in Quran; Muslim Ummah stands quite perturb about this to find themselves at receiving end.

They say; While Mrs Marple ate all the apple pies; Mr Ford ends up paying for it.

(khann peen noon Noor Bhari; tay dhoun bhnan noon Juma)
------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None

Posted by: A Khokar at April 12, 2008 3:23 PM

Who are these moslem swine to even comment on whatr the Pope does in Europe?!

They have NO SAY about what we do in Europe!!

Where are the Europeans saying this lound and clear?

And please.. NO more money for the Middle east!

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 12, 2008 3:31 PM

Criminal minds, and paranoid minds (and there is some overlap there) see the world as centered on their existence and see anything that displeases them as hostile to them.

More and more I see mohammedanism as largely a codification of the criminal mind as a moral standard.

============

It's all pretty primitive really.

They seem, considered as a culture, to have mastered the concept of having rules.

But they don't seem to have gotten to the point of figuring out that the rules have any purpose other than to please the person[s] in power.

Their "allah" in this context is sort of the super-daddy or super-dictator or perhaps super-thug, who rules by whim and who's every whim must be obeyed.

Neither do they seem to have any handle on the idea that the law has to make some logical sense.

They even insist that that idea, the demand for logical sense is heretical -- human logic being so far inferior to "allah's" magical super-knowledge.

================

These people are far more than a mere 1000 years behind the rest of the world.

================

And no, that gap is not going to be bridged by "dialogue".

Neither can we reasonably expect much change at a mass cultural level in our lifetimes.

Where have we seen an example of any group of any size, any really primitive and brutal group, adopting humane and rational moral standards in a single generation or two ?????????????

Tell me a single example!

==================

And BTW "mutual understanding" is logically impossible. Our standards make absolutely no sense to them, and most of the west resolutely refuses to consider what the mohammedan outlook might really be, for fear of what they might discover.

==================

I'm convinced that the course RS is following is the only hope the world has.

Until the mohammedan point of view is widely and well known, there will be no chance of making a rational response.

And until the mohammedan point of view is throughly discredited among their own people, there will be no chance of meaningful change.

I will add however, that one of the key things that must be popularly recognized is mohammedan contempt for logic.

Until then, western people will be continually duped by the notion that the mohammedans they are speaking with are seeking a logical consensus in the same sense that a westerner would -- and that they have the same desire for a logical conclusion.

This is clearly not the case.

Posted by: joeblough at April 12, 2008 3:35 PM

Consequently followers of Islam end up with the severer admonishing and hard work to bring about the positive results. Posted by: A Khokar

Having been roundly refuted on a previous thread, Khokar is back to spew his pompous bile.

Hard work. Would that be with the hard erections pious Muslims have while raping the wives of their enemies after their pre-emptive "defensive" jihads, captives obtained while raiding their enemies homes? Or the hard work of raping children under the pretense of marriage? Or the hard works of decapitating or dismembering bound defeated prisoners? Allah is so proud of your hard work! What a sick mind you have, obedient to your sick, lust consumed "prophet".

Islam did not exist before Mohammed. Allah bears no resemblance to the Jewish and Christian God, as described in writings predating Islam by hundreds and thousands of years. Mohammed is not fortold anywhere. Islam is successor to nothing. It is the invention of an illiterate epileptic, plagiarist, dissension sowing, rapist, warmongering, murdering pedophile who was a conscious imposter, and whose poetry reads well only in Arabic because it is so mediocre and obviously situationally contrived.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 3:40 PM

There is no Christian solidarity. Never has been.

Who but Armenians ever speak of the genocide?

Who defended the Christians living in Iraq when it was obvious that they would be killed when the US "liberation" began?

The US lead the NATO effort to kill Christian Serbs and establish a new Balkan Muslim country.

The US media never points out the abysmal treatment of Christians in Muslim countries.

Investigative reporting on the subject of Muslim intolerance: nonexistent.

The religious demographic shift in the Middle East, from Christianity, to Islam, is the best kept secret in the world.

Posted by: Charlie at April 12, 2008 3:43 PM

Muslims like to say Islam is the successor to Judaism and Christianity. Of extreme importance to Judaism is the Law, the 10 commandments. Let's see how Islam holds up (Protestant enumeration):

1. No other Gods-- Judaism yes; Islam yes
2. No idols-- Judaism yes; Islam yes
3. Don't misuse the Name-- Judaism yes; Islam yes*
4. Honor the Sabbath-- Judaism yes; Islam no
5. Honor your parents-- Judaism yes; Islam no
6. Don't murder-- Judaism yes; Islam no
7. Don't commit adultery-- Judaism yes; Islam no
8. Don't steal-- Judaism yes; Islam no
9. Don't bear false witness-- Judaism yes; Islam no
10. Don't covet-- Judaism yes; Islam no

(*with great reservation, I'm giving Islam partial credit here)

30% or less is by far a failing grade (F-).

Islam flunks.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 3:46 PM

From Spencer's Blogging the Qur'an, Surah 4

V. 24 forbids Muslims to marry women who are already married, except slave girls: according to Islamic law, once a woman is captured and enslaved, her marriage is immediately annulled (cf. ‘Umdat al-Salik o9.13). At one point, according to a hadith reported by Sahih Muslim, “the Companions of Allah’s Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists.” So the Companions “asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah [verse] was revealed…Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women.” Ibn Kathir says that this verse also prohibits temporary marriage – marriage with a predetermined expiration date, which Shi’ites believe was never prohibited. Meanwhile, men who don’t have the money to marry believing women should marry Muslim slave girls (v. 25).

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 3:50 PM

This well respected majority loved muslim leader is the normal hypocrite we have come to expect from the muslim leadership. Christians cannot baptize muslims which is an affront to muslims, and muslims cannot be asked not to slaughter infidels, which is an equal affront.

Hitler too, used to make these insidious types of metaphors which showed his psychopathy and utter disdain for the other like this muslim leader makes for the rest of non muslim mankind. His view is the same as Hitler where each of his propositions is a restatement of the same sick perverted and twisted worldview. His "either... or...." proposition is a singular proposition. Qaradawi's proposition is an all inclusive wish for either the victory of islam, or the death of infidels. He has no regard for infidels consistent with the orthodox islamic view that the infidel may be summarily butchered like a cow or sold in the market place as a slave.

Posted by: David England at April 12, 2008 3:50 PM

"Yes that is exactly what We calling for-Global Conflict!!

We want Conflict with the whole World!!

Come on lets fight!! Bring it on!

Posted by: zakariyyaazzam "

this is an example of what children are being taught in the Madrassas found worldwide and of what is being preached in many mosques worldwide...this has been proven many times by undercover videos and tapes...and even admitted to by Muslim leaders...

it is a mystery to me why western governments allow these facilities to thrive in their countries...

and then we have Presidental hopefuls like Mr Obama and others in his party who proclaim...Let's talk....

come to think of it , maybe tapes of those that make these types of speeches should be taught to Western children of the Non MUslim types...prepare them for what they will inevitably have to face...prepare them for the future...let them learn...let them live free...forever...

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 3:55 PM

America deserves war-violent Jihad like
every othe country,yes including vatican city!

Join me-Join us!!

Please,please do not be weaklings like the majority of germans under Hitler ,who did not
rise up against Kafir Hitler!!
Posted by: zakariyyaazzam

Who is he trying to recruit with that crap?
'Join me-join us'...what, in the loony bin that is Islam?
Only loonies hang out in loony bins. This guy
zakariyyaazzam is a loonie toons if I ever heard one. He's more loony than Khokar but less loony than jafar, actually the three could be renamed 'Larry, Curley and Mo'. Whoops we already have a Mo in this movie so we can use the name Shemp instead. Larry, Curley and Shemp. I bet Jafar knows who those guys are but zakariyyaazzam and Khokar probably don't. Haha, the jokes on them. Keep talking boys, your cracking me up...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 12, 2008 4:10 PM

"He used the stupid and misguided muslims for his
satanic Goals!"

,....wrong again , as usual, THe Muslims used Hitler to achieve their goals of killing the Jews..It was the Muslim advisors on Hitlers payroll that planted the Idea of killing Jews..this began in the early 1930's..by the time WWII began Hitler was happily enthused to kill Jews..

by the way..are you calling Muslims stupid and misguided?...

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 4:13 PM

“We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

How Muslims "seek peace" with Christians: 1) Forcing Christians to live as 2nd class citizens in Islamic countries. 2) Not allowing Christians to build churches or publically worship. 3) Instructing other Muslims to not take Christians as friends. 4) Describing the Bible as false, and Jesus as non-divine. 5) Muslims beheading, burning, bombing, raping, forcing repatriation of Christians from many Islamic countries with no condemnation from Islamic leaders.

How Christians provoke Muslims with their "hostility":
1) Refusal to submit to Islam.

Posted by: Xero G at April 12, 2008 4:24 PM

I agree with the poster who remarked on the WCC being one of the most PC purveyors of multiculti pablum.

But to the fabulist they suppose that those not in their camp must be opposed to them. How little they know, as the Iranian filmmaker opined Mossad and al-kida are on the same team.

Good for anyone making a decision as to what they believe using experience, reason and morality in their decision making process.

Ever wonder what would happen if the USA took off the kid gloves and actually made war on Islam as their fabulists like to pretend?

Well first off their is the matter of a few thousand nuclear warheads, there are neutron bombs that will kill people quickly and leave much of the physical assets untouched.

In a few more years the space based chemical laser should be proven, imagine a beam of light from heaven cutting through mosques and buildings throughout the middle east.

The defense department could issue anthrax immunity pills to all they would save and then unleash weaponized anthrax that would be worse than any dark ages plague.

If the west and the USA was actually at war with Islam the war might last at most a week before a living soul from north africa to Indonesia would be rarer than hens teeth.

Posted by: stickman at April 12, 2008 4:39 PM

As much of my rhetorical schooling has come from following Robert & crew's analyses, parsing high-falutin' phrasology down to its q'uranic elements.

One thing that strikes me, as it does when I read articles/essays from Muslim "scientists" and other "ists" (academics), is Khokar's tortured reasoning, based on its equally tortured preceding sentence, and the premise before that and the premise before that.

If you put the original statement together with its conclusion in any of these arguments, even the Muslim would mock it. But because all the intervening "ideas" (how can there be ideas when Allah controls all and all is pre-destined?) are based on Mohammed's joke of a book, it somehow passes as "evidence".

How does anyone instructing Muslims in Western science and ideas deal with the putrid cognitive dissonance that must ooze from their papers and dissertations? If Westerners would stop being such apologists, they could fail all these PhD and Doctoral candidates without a second thought and spare me the thought of seeing one in the emergency room or delivery room.

Posted by: winoceros at April 12, 2008 4:44 PM

Hey zak,

Just out of curiosity, when you write, "America deserves war-violent Jihad like every othe country,yes including vatican city!" have you worked out the percentages of people who will in all likelihood need to be killed to make the world safe for Islam? Is it in the ballpark of 80% of the entire world's population, give or take a few million?

Regarding Vatican City, I expect that you yourself would like to behead Pope Benedict XVI, that totally filthy Islamophobe, "in public and in front of satellite TV cameras," but that honor should probably be given to "Alzheimer Yousef" Qaradawi. Even though you don't like him, he is a brother in Mohammad, agreed?

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 4:56 PM

10 commandments?? Get your definitions right!! Aseret ha-D'varim(Ex.31:18) The word D'varim means word,speak! The word Mitzvot means commandment! So not the 10 commandments but the 10 sayings. And the 613 Mitzvot! Also get your definitions of jewish and islamic adultery,parents,murder,theft,false witness, and covetness right,you are wrong in all of them!!

Did I get under your skin?

Oh, do tell, Zak! Give me the correct definitions so I can be enlightened. Show me the way!

By the way, are you that pedicab driver from New York?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 5:09 PM

Hey Khokar,

You wrote, "Islam finds that earlier on there were very few quality, brilliant or devotee students (followers) found in the previous denominations. Rather the Principal above us; our Almighty God was not totally happy with their conduct. They lacked required esteem, obedience and perseverance. They were rejected by Him altogether.

How very sad for the disciples of Jesus, to have given their lives for NOTHING!!!

Thank you, Khokar, for providing us with the most condescendingly arrogant bit of self-congratulatory Islamobullshit that I have EVER read! You are like your most exemplary master, Mohammad, who was pleased to assume the role of divinely appointed judge, jury, and executioner (and rapist when the occasion presented itself, per Allah's perfect will).

Allow me to suggest that you join zak and start killing infidels. Otherwise, how can you expect to please Allah who wants Muslims to cleanse the earth?

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 5:16 PM

Robert? Marisol?

Jihad Watch indeed.

Posted by: winoceros at April 12, 2008 5:24 PM

Zak,

Exactly what are your plans for the Pope?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 5:27 PM

Jihad Watch?

This calls for Interpol.

Posted by: Hugh at April 12, 2008 5:27 PM

Oh, and by the way, don't wait by the Papal Palace's gate too long...he's enjoying the caring, loving, respectful, adoring hospitality of the citizens of the United States.

Think on that while you make your gums bleed with a piece of scrub wood and shave all your hair off.

See people? Front and center...here it is, here's what they say, what they believe. There is no logic, it doesn't matter.

He is them. All of them.

Posted by: winoceros at April 12, 2008 5:28 PM

A really excellent commentary on the conversion is here

Posted by: madijihadi at April 12, 2008 5:31 PM

Hugh,

Did you reach them?

Posted by: winoceros at April 12, 2008 5:36 PM

Zak is getting exceedingly boring...if he was a radio talk show caller he would have been hung up on long ago...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 12, 2008 5:37 PM

He was dragged into the Vatican and forced to convert by torture.
Oh oh . . . did I get the religions mixed up ?

Posted by: Khaless at April 12, 2008 5:38 PM

Wiki entry

A Takfiri (from the Arabic word تكفيري) accuses other Muslims of apostasy, or Takfir...The term Takfir derives from the word Kufr(impiety) and is described as when "...one who is, or claims to be, a Muslim is declared impure." Those who are declared Takfir are considered excommunicated in the eyes of the Muslim community. According to Islamic or Sharia law, those who are declared Takfir can no longer benefit from the protection of the law, and as such are condemned to death. The severe implications of such punishment has resulted in a rigorous set of rules being formulated under orthodox Islam to determine whether an accused party is guilty of apostasy or not. In principle the only group authorised to declare a Muslim takfir are the ulema, and this only once all the prescribed legal precautions have been taken. However a growing number of splinter Salafist groups- labelled by some scholars as Salafi-Takfiris- have split from the orthodox method of establishing takfir through the processes of the law, and have reserved the right to declare apostasy themselves.

Uh, zak, if you're planning something big, like burning the Vatican flag and attacking a Swiss guard or something more "spectacular," have you notified CNN and the BBC? I'd like to see you on TV, mouthing the words, "For the dear contributors at Jihad Watch!"

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 5:43 PM

Zak,
Due to the number of exclamation points, bad spelling and grammer, I would estimate your age to be 13-14 (too bad Jihad Watch can't require an age minimum for posters). If you ARE an adult, may I suggest that you increase the doseage of your meds, or tell your story to the local police.

Posted by: Xero G at April 12, 2008 5:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOQX6-QAlc&feature=related

Posted by: Hugh at April 12, 2008 5:50 PM

Have we learned nothing here if not to take the jihadist's call to jihad seriously?

Posted by: winoceros at April 12, 2008 5:50 PM

"zakariyyaazzam" -- you're insane. And your grammar (spelled grammar, with an a, not an e) is horrendous). Jihadi Nutjob.

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 5:54 PM

I must take this opportunity to thank all the muslims who responded on here. Instead of showing that Islam does not equal Nazism they unequivocally removed all shadows of doubt that, yes, Islam does indeed equal a pure form of fascism.

The muslim response on here has not been to show otherwise but rather showcased the fact that yes islamics "should do violent jihad" (I guess that jihad as inner struggle only stuff is not working for you) on the 'infidel' world.

Usually they deny the core of Islam outright. This time I saw a embrace of the true violent core of Islam. How refreshing.

Islam = Nazism (and then some!)

PS Robert Spencer is my hero. He tells it like it is and does it with meticulous scholarship. I am rereading "Islam Religion of Peace? Why Christianity is and Islam isn't"

PPS the free world is waking up more and more no matter how much the liberal apologists cry out. The truth is really really really hard to fight against, currently the New York Times is slowly going bankrupt trying to do just that. But I digress...

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at April 12, 2008 5:55 PM

zak's "alternate reality check."

2.This Conflict must be "violent" by Nature!

3.This Conflict must be Global! but not
destructive!

A violently nondestructive conflict! Huh? This goes way beyond Mohammad. I'd even call it so innovative as to be beyond human comprehension.

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 6:01 PM

>>The United States of Filth!! --Zak the Muslim

I wish I could meet you face-to-face, filthy Muslim, worshipping a filthy "god," allah, and a filthy "messenger," Mohamet the Pedophile. Filthy Zak the Mohammedan!

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 6:02 PM

Hey Khokar - how do you like using the Internet that INFIDELS invented! LOL! How do you like using EVERYTHING technological that you own, including the lightbulb, that INFIDELS invented?!

LOL! You Barbarians have invented NOTHING! LOL!

Hey Khokar - next time you get in your vehicle, remember that INFIDELS invented it! LOL!

Mohammedans have invented NOTHING! LOL!

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 6:08 PM

What a waste of humanity. Zak, why would we want to join you? How can you persuade us your way is the way?

Posted by: winoceros at April 12, 2008 6:11 PM

darcy,

It's pretty unlikely, but maybe Amerigo Vespucci's nickname was "Filth."

Incidentally, "filth" in Italian is sporcizia (sporco)

The United States of Sporco? Nah. America will do.

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 6:18 PM

winoceros he is hoping you have a lust for little 9 year old girls and you will join him...you see like his prophet muhmmet did. Islam does not understand that the free world is still filled with men and women of good will who are not attracted by the blood lust and other depravity you get if you join the club (especially if you live in Saudi Arabia or Yemen etc where I see over at dhummi watch a young girl child is trying to divorce her 50 year old 'husband'.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at April 12, 2008 6:19 PM

Hey Zak and Khokar - next time you Mohammedans get on your cell phones, remember that INFIDELS invented ALL telephones!

LOL, Enjoy yourselves on the telephones and cell phones that INFIDELS invented! ROFLMAO!

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 6:19 PM

correction: an 8 year old marrying a 30 year old man not 50 (muhammed was around that age though so in islam its okay to marry and have sex with a 9 year old if you are 50, hence my point still stands).

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at April 12, 2008 6:23 PM

zak and khokar...keep digging, eventually you'll reach bottom.

what's the matter...the tin foil hats a little too tight today?

Posted by: raisethedrawbridge at April 12, 2008 6:28 PM

"he is an agent of Israel" - I thought he was a Catholic! Of course, you just can't tell those infidels apart.

Posted by: tanstaafl at April 12, 2008 6:30 PM

Robert, Hugh, and Marisol, please report this troll and ISP number to the Interpol.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 12, 2008 6:31 PM

The Allies Shall Win,

I wonder if nine year old Aisha was still playing with dolls when Allah's Prophet decided that after having waited THREE LONG YEARS to get him some prepubescent snatch -showing admirable restraint, mind you- he deserved it! Hell yeah!

I'm sure that if anyone had paid close attention, they'd have heard the angels singing with joy for their beloved Mohammad, Allah's finest prophet, who would have taken Aisha sooner but for the perfect example of sexual rectitude that he was inspired to give to the world...

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 6:44 PM

We have a couple of Jihadist Junkies on board today - never is a dull moment when they show up spreading their good cheer and tips on wholesome living. Not!

I see that A Konman is still pushing his, "Love for all, Hatred for none", NONSENSE! Please spare us your bologne, AK, because no one here is buying it. More lying for the cause of Islam, huh?

At least zany-zakariyyaazzam is a little more honest in that he clearly hates our guts and he isn't trying to convince that he LOVES US, unlike A Konman is.

May I suggest a 12-Step Program to our Jihadist Junkies - but be warned - taking the first step is the hardest :-)

And may law enforcement track your evil butts and soon. Have a nice time behind bars!

Posted by: champ at April 12, 2008 6:45 PM

Gotta fight fire with fire, here.

The two Mohammedan "filths" don't like being reminded that EVERYTHING scientific and technological they own and use was INVENTED BY INFIDELS! HA-HA! Isn't that right, Zak and Khokar?! Hey - if you two are REALLY against the West - you'll stop using EVERYTHING the West has invented! That includes indoor plumbing, you hypocrites! That includes cell phones! And that includes the INTERNET! GOODBYE!

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 6:45 PM

Lex

Oy! You said it.

Posted by: THE ALLIES SHALL WIN at April 12, 2008 7:02 PM

darcy...It could be worse than that. I read somewhere that plastic steering wheels on cars have a pig enzyme in them. Not only that, if the truth were known, there is probably pig enzyme in a lot of stuff that you wouldn't suspect. What this means to muslims is, that they can live here, but can't touch anything...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 12, 2008 7:04 PM

Hey champ,

I for one am pleased that Jihadi Junkies consider it worth their while to show up here to try and "win" infidels to their scheme of things. Not that they will succeed -dear God preserve us!- but that learning how and why they think as they do is imperative because the goal, the goal of this site, as I see it anyway, is to divert jihadis from the path of destruction that they have embraced "in the cause of Allah," a.k.a., the father of lies, as I understand revelation.

Hugh's link, above, indicates where this battle is TRULY at, in the spiritual realm: light v. darkness; truth v. the lie. The rest of it is politics and governance, important, to be sure, but not the heart of the matter, which is eternal life and death.

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 7:08 PM

duh_swami,

"All you need is gloves!"
sincerest apologies to the Beatles

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 7:13 PM

Hey Lex,

I agree with you, and I was only teasing our two Jihadist Junkies. I know that they don't want to change, and that they are committed to killing kafir and spreading their Islamic filth. Afraid there's only one cure for what ales them, and it ain't a 12-Step program. :-)

Sounds like a job for God Himself!

Posted by: champ at April 12, 2008 7:25 PM

Pope Benedict XVI deserves an enormous amount of credit for his intellectual clarity and courage when it comes to Islam. He is gradually emerging as the outstanding Western leader in this regard.
First, he had that great quote from the Byzantine Emperor Paleologus, which described Islam as a unique blend of religion and coercion. More recently, he baptized Magdi Allam, a former Muslim and a leading journalist and intellectual who has highlighted the relationship between Islam and violence and written a book praising Israel.
Besides making a link between Islam and violence, albeit in a subtle way, the Pope has also said that Islam is incompatible with democracy, and has refused to call it a religion of peace. Nevertheless, the Pope has made a clear distinction between Islam and Muslims, whom he respects.
I think the Pope is a great scholar and thinker of the sort we have way too little of.
You don't have to be Catholic to love the Pope!

Posted by: jewdog at April 12, 2008 7:47 PM

Watching. Reading. Conferring.

Posted by: MarisolJW at April 12, 2008 7:47 PM

jewdog,

With Pope Benedict XVI planning to come to America in the coming week, Americans be they Catholic or not will get an opportunity to see not only a man of deep faith, but also a true Christian and Western leader. Prayers for a safe and spiritual fruitful visit next week. God Bless B16.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 12, 2008 7:54 PM

champ,

I agree, miracles are called for, and there's nothing quite like grace upside the head (that's how we talk around here) to turn would be murderers named Saul into Christian evangelists named Paul.

Imagine the Christian Feast Day of Sts. Zak and A Khobar, Confessors and Martyrs, beheaded for their testimony to the risen Lord Jesus.

Zak's stated intention to meet with the Pope tomorrow brings to mind the time when Pope John Paul II visited Mehmet Ali Ağca in prison. Ağca, if you recall, was the nutjob and career thug who had been hired by the Bulgarians to kill the Pope in retaliation for his support of Solidarity, and almost succeeded.

This is from the wiki entry:

Following the shooting, Pope John Paul II asked people to "pray for my brother (Ağca), whom I have sincerely forgiven." In 1983, he and Ağca met and spoke privately at the prison where Ağca was being held. The Pope was also in touch with Ağca's family over the years, meeting his mother in 1987 and his brother a decade later.

Although Ağca had been quoted as saying that "to me [the Pope] was the incarnation of all that is capitalism", and had attempted to murder him, Ağca developed a friendship with the pontiff. In early February 2005, during the Pope's illness, Ağca sent a letter to the Pope wishing him well and also warning him that the world would end soon.

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 7:57 PM

"Islamic Teaching certainly stands superior in the context that it excel in the line of all the other earlier Teachings in religion"

From Khokar, the loving Ahmadiyya Muslim above.

So serial rape, plunder, mass-murder, molesting children and enslaving whole populations while destroying their culture excels all other teachings in religion?

You are one giant fruitloop, brother...!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 12, 2008 7:59 PM

I suspect that this idiot zakariyyaazzam is just trying to provoke some good quotes for CAIR to use in their literature to show how intolerant and "islamophobic" the west is. And yup, we've come to a really good understanding of islam, thanks to islam and muslims themselves. It sucks, unless you're into murder rape and pillage. Then it's a great cult to belong to. Think the islamic rathole countries you speak of who are incapable of even making their own toothpaste and tampons are going to conquer the western world? Mmmm 7th century beliefs and technology against us? Probably not. You can't even manage to destroy little Israel. Declare all out war on them and see your rock god and your countries become green glass. Screw you.

Posted by: Rick at April 12, 2008 7:59 PM

Sorry, Khokar! I get you confused with the Khobar Towers...

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 8:03 PM

Lex...By their gloves you shall know them...

Bright yellow, glow in the dark gloves, would be good.

Posted by: duh_swami at April 12, 2008 8:04 PM

jewdog,

Benedict XVI (Ratzinger) is very bright, a Catholic theologian par excellence, which has actually bothered a great many Catholics who resent being told that grace is not license. It's an old story.

In any case, his eyes are also open to the east. He has discerned Islam and will do what he must to protect the flock that has been entrusted to his care. Pray for him!

duh_swami, :^)

Posted by: Lex at April 12, 2008 8:19 PM

"And you are wrong on hitler!
Were is your documented Evidence!!"

Where?

Big buildings. Usually quiet. Lots of books.

They're called Public Libraries.

I wouldn't imagine you're familiar with them.

They don't have them in Islamic states. Far too dangerous. People might learn something.

Posted by: Rab at April 12, 2008 8:20 PM

concerned citizen posted this above:

Of extreme importance to Judaism is the Law, the 10 commandments. Let's see how Islam holds up (Protestant enumeration):

1. No other Gods-- Judaism yes; Islam yes

Actually, I'd say this is incorrect. Muhammedans worship Muhammad, in fact Muhammad has an even more prominent position in the Koran and the hadith than Allah.

2. No idols-- Judaism yes; Islam yes

Same thing: A People who kill over a Koran down the toilet must be accused of idolizing a book, this is definitely more than reverence.

3. Don't misuse the Name-- Judaism yes; Islam yes*
4. Honor the Sabbath-- Judaism yes; Islam no
5. Honor your parents-- Judaism yes; Islam no
6. Don't murder-- Judaism yes; Islam no
7. Don't commit adultery-- Judaism yes; Islam no
8. Don't steal-- Judaism yes; Islam no
9. Don't bear false witness-- Judaism yes; Islam no
10. Don't covet-- Judaism yes; Islam no

Other than that, you're quite right.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 12, 2008 8:30 PM

"4.This includes all so-called islamic States!"

....All the Islamic States I can think of consider themselves Islam above all...which ones were you referring to...I am sure they would be interested to find out that they are only "so-called Islamic States"...I will try to help you out. Of course some the following had people who belong to other religions, but their numbers are dwindling due to the various cleansing campaigns of the "radial Islamists"..

Please choose from the following...the ones you select I will send their governments a copy of your post and let them know some Islamists think of them as a "so-called Islamic State":

1 Indonesia
2 Pakistan
3 Bangladesh
4 Nigeria
5 Egypt
6 Turkey
7 Iran
8 Sudan
9 Algeria
10 Morocco
11 Iraq
12 Uzbekistan
13 Afghanistan
14 Malaysia
15 Saudi Arabia
16 Yemen
17 Syria
18 Kazakhstan
19 Niger
20 Senegal
21 Mali
22 Chad
23 Tunisia
24 Guinea-Conakry
25 Somalia
26 Azerbaijan
27 Tajikistan
28 Libya
29 Jordan
30 Sierra Leone
31 Kyrgyzstan
32 Turkmenistan
33 Eritrea
24 United Arab Emirates
25 Lebanon
26 Albania
27 Mauritania
28 Kuwait
29 Oman
30 Kosovo
31 Gambia
32 Qatar
33 Djibouti
34 Bahrain
35 Comoros
36 Western Sahara
37 Brunei
38 Maldives

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 8:32 PM

Don't miss this important conference:

http://sheikyermami.com/2008/04/13/make-sure-you-dont-miss-this-important-conference/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 12, 2008 8:51 PM

"They don't have them in Islamic states. Far too dangerous. People might learn something.

Posted by: Rab"

true true...in fact quality libraries in Muslim countries are slowly being depleted of any books relating history, with the exception of one book..the Koran ...and its version of history is, well...its version..

some libraries have been looted. some have been burned to the ground..

Other sources of history are the vast number of films and old news reels...you can buy copies from a number of sources (Not from Islamic sources , however)...

and then there are the taped recordings from people who actually lived during the 1920s-1950s who vividly describe the involvement of Muslims in Hitlers regime..

and then there are the documents written by many Muslims leaders of the time pledging support for the Nazis.

and then there are the documents captured from the Nazis, showing the huge shipments of arms and explosives to be given to the Muslims for use in attacking the Jews...

and then there are the shipping documents from the German and Italian navies listing the military supplies being delivered to Muslims in Tunesia, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and other countries...

and then there are the archieved German newsreels from the 1930s showing Hitler and several Muslim leaders smiling and hugging..(couldn't be a gay thing...Islam has no queers)after signing documents of alliances (many of which were captured by allied troops)..

It is all there for those so inclined to research...(hard to do in Islamic countries and such items have been outlawed for many years). Muslims do not want the truth to get out...and the West seems to have forgotten the past..

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 12, 2008 8:55 PM

sheik yer'mami,

As I have asked earlier today, I suspect that the moon is getting ready to go full and all the nuts are coming out of the woodwork.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 12, 2008 9:01 PM

Just more Enslavement!!

You criticse my call to Jihad!!

Yes that is exactly what We calling for-Global Conflict!!

We want Conflict with the whole World!!

Come on lets fight!! Bring it on!

I especially love the, "Just more Enslavement", line coming from a guy that advocates a religion that enslaves you! Just too funny!

This is clearly one of those misunderstanders of Islam that we hear so much about.
Poor soul just doesn't have a clue as to what his own religion is all about.
Reading his posts one would get the impression that Islam was a violent religion, with violent people looking for a fight. Sigh...

Don't worry yer little head there Zak boy...just pop yer little head up and you''ll get your fight.
He wants a fight? I think it's inevitable that there be one...particularly with short sighted, small minded Islamotards like him on the planet.

Over 20,000 of your Jihadi buddies have bitten the big one in Iraq so far. You want a fight? Take your ass there and put you faith to the test. If you don't, you're a coward and should shut the hell up. Go face some soldiers whose business it is to deal with punks like you.
But that's not your style, huh? You like the rest of the scum like you, prefer that your victims be unarmed and unprepared women and children, and of course the elderly.
When you decide you want to take it to the "armed conflict level", against what you perceive to be unarmed citizens, your martyrdom will come swiftly and from all sides.
If you have visited this site regularly, you know that many of us here are prepared, in many ways, to deal with the likes of you...who desire a "fight".
The vast majority of those who are now prepared, were prepared long ago for a breakdown in society. They wished to be able to defend themselves and their loved ones, from looters and the like, long before they became aware of Islamic nutcakes like you.
Now, those preparations have another possible and I think, inevitable purpose.
And never mind those of us that are, "survivalists". A recent poll in Florida revealed that 84% of residents in a little town called Ocala, keep a firearm in their vehicle.
Careful what you ask for punk.
Bark on...I'm done barkin' back at you. Same with the Hallmark Card writer...Khokar...purty words, no substance. Again...his ability to right click his impressive. A pleasant sounding bark, but just another barking dog none the less, and I don't bark back at barking dogs. Just seems silly to me.

Posted by: Alaskan at April 12, 2008 9:11 PM

>>Think the islamic rathole countries you speak of who are incapable of even making their own toothpaste and tampons are going to conquer the western world? --Rick

LOL.

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 9:20 PM

What the imam really meant to say was:

"Silence, infidels. We cannot let the slaves see freedom. If I have to cut your head off or your throat or your heart out, I will do this in the name and for the honor of Allah (the rock that is housed in the Kabaa in Mecca) and you will obey me. You will not obey me out of love, you will obey me out of fear".

Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at April 12, 2008 9:28 PM

Darcy,

FYI: The use of tampons is discouraged in Islam:

It is offensive (makruh) to have this cotton (kursuf) inserted fully in the internal part of the vagina, because it resembles masturbation. (See: Majmu’a Rasa’il Ibn Abidin, 1/84-85)

Also, the Miswak negates the need for a toothbrush.

Halitosis is against Islam:

Bukhari vol.I, no.812 : What has been said about uncooked garlic or onion. And the statement of the Prophet : "Whoever has eaten garlic or
onion because of hunger or otherwise should not come near our mosque". (see also nos.813-815)

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 9:36 PM

"Bark on...I'm done barkin' back at you. Same with the Hallmark Card writer...Khokar...purty words, no substance."

Posted by: Alaskan

LOL!!! That Hallmark joke was great!

Posted by: champ at April 12, 2008 9:41 PM

From an article by Andrew Bostom, here´s a quote about Hitler´s relation to Muhammad and Islam:

During an interview conducted in the late 1930s (published in 1939), Carl Jung, the Swiss psychiatrist and founder of analytical psychiatry, was asked “…had he any views on what was likely to be the next step in religious development?” Jung replied, in reference to the Nazi fervor that had gripped Germany,

We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Muhammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with wild god. That can be the historic future.

Albert Speer, who was Hitler’s Minister of Armaments and War Production, wrote a contrite memoir of his World War II experiences while serving a 20-year prison sentence imposed by the Nuremberg tribunal. Speer’s narrative includes this discussion, which captures Hitler’s racist views of Arabs on the one hand, and his effusive praise for Islam on the other:

Hitler had been much impressed by a scrap of history he had learned from a delegation of distinguished Arabs. When the Mohammedans attempted to penetrate beyond France into Central Europe during the eighth century, his visitors had told him, they had been driven back at the Battle of Tours. Had the Arabs won this battle, the world would be Mohammedan today. For theirs was a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and subjugating all nations to that faith. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the Germanic temperament. Hitler said...that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire. Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking, “...The Mohammedan religion...would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?”

Posted by: traeh at April 12, 2008 9:42 PM

In the end, islam will lose this battle. It has lost every battle it has ever waged in history. People do not want islam/submission. People want freedom.

It's hard enough to live in this world with all of its demands. The current world demands your time and focus. Quite simply put:

There is no room for islamin western societies. We are burdened enough, and have No room for yet more rules that govern every aspect of your life, including how you blow your nose or whipe your anus and when you clip your nails. How you wear your clothes, put your gaze down, pray 5 times a day, wash your feet... oh hell, what if I lose my shoes or fart during a prayer? I'd never make it in the islam.

There is no room for islam in the Western world. We're too busy living, loving and respecting lives to think about the millions of little idiocies and violations of the islam. Just.. Go. Away. Please?

Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at April 12, 2008 10:17 PM

>>Think the islamic rathole countries you speak of who are incapable of even making their own toothpaste and tampons are going to conquer the western world? --Rick

They are already here, conquering us bit by bit. In the end its demographics: 10 children for every Muslimah, how many have you got?

And how many of us are willing to kill and die to make our religion dominant?

The threat from Islam is far worse than the Nazi's or communism.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 12, 2008 10:30 PM

PROMINENT scholar Sheikh Yousuf al-Qaradawi has denounced Pope Benedict’s baptism of a Muslim-born journalist during the last Easter Mass at the Vatican as a “provocative and hostile act against Muslims”.
what else is new Muslims seem to regard any act that is not subservien t to be a hostile act unless we're bowing and scraping and acting like Muslims are the overlords this guy needs to grow up and get off the Muslim is a God act

Posted by: crusader at April 12, 2008 10:42 PM

When John Paul II challenged Soviet hegemony over Eastern Europe shortly after his ascendancy in '79, I remember being an absolute fan. When, over the subsequent decades, the threat of Soviet totalitarianism dissipated and the Islamic threat crystallized...and John Paul's response was so tepid, I lost any residual respect I had for the man.

Benedict has come along and shaken things up. I believe he's actually interested in challenging the Islamic world for hearts and minds. He's actually standing up for the rights of Christians in the Muslim world....the "quiet (dismally ineffectual) diplomacy" of John Paul be damned.

Let's hope Benedict has the foresight and gonads to resist the entreaties of the appeasers within the Vatican foreign secretariat.

Posted by: Cornelius at April 12, 2008 10:46 PM

>>They are already here, conquering us bit by bit. In the end its demographics: 10 children for every Muslimah, how many have you got? --shiek yer mami

Yeah, shiek, I LOL'd at Rick's line about the toothpaste/tampons - but, at the same time I thought about...demographics.

We have to stop Muslim immigration. It's the M demographics that's killing Western Europe.

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 11:16 PM

Darcy,

FYI: The use of tampons is discouraged in Islam:

It is offensive (makruh) to have this cotton (kursuf) inserted fully in the internal part of the vagina, because it resembles masturbation. (See: Majmu’a Rasa’il Ibn Abidin, 1/84-85) --Concerned Citizen

CC, I'm too incredulous at this jaw-dropping imbecility to even reply.

Posted by: darcy at April 12, 2008 11:19 PM

Darcy,

Whenever you think you've reached bottom, there is always more. Islam, the gift that keeps giving.

Here's the link:
http://www.shariahprogram.ca/islam-qa-women/tampons-permissible-marriage.shtml

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 12, 2008 11:25 PM

A few months ago Yousuf al-Qaradari threatened the conquest of Rome., Italy and Europe.
http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2007/11/top-egyptian-cl.html

So when the Bishop of Rome baptizes a Muslim into Catholicism it is a "provacative and hostile act" to this guy?

You are whistling Dixie, Yousuf. Provoked? Just keep it up and you will learn a lesson or two.

Posted by: Jimmy Bones at April 12, 2008 11:29 PM

we are proud to be one of them, cause we are satanic. we are christian slaughter...
Posted by: ZackyVengeance

No you are not Christian slaughter, but you are loony toons. You understand the infidel meaning of 'loony toons'?
Another Zak...Same name, same dopey message...Why aren't you out jihading somewhere? You can't get to Allah's Paradise hanging around here...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 1:30 AM

Uh huh...and you are a troll that will not get fed...bye bye...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 1:50 AM

zakariyyaazzam/

You wrote: "America,the West are Slave Societies! Obama,Clinton,McCain are Slave Masters!". Prove it! How many slaves are owned, and who owns them, in the free Western countries today? Do tell! Surely it cannot be so difficult to find out that it takes you more than a few seconds to respond?

Oh, I see! That was just more Muslim and Islamic rhetoric that means nothing, nothing at all - you were just flapping your gums, throwing some mud and hoping that some would stick. Well, here is some real dirt! It is estimated by the UN that there are over 800 million slaves in the world today and they are all in Islamic countries. Now, exactly how proud do you feel, slaveowner?

Oh, of course. You feel very proud, don't you, for Islam allows slavery - actually, Islam demands slavery. That, zakariyyaazzam, is exactly why we revile you and call you filth - for that is what you in the Islamic slave-owning world are - perverted filth and followers of a vile and false creed. We have "no insight" and "no education", indeed, but we have sufficient to see through you false prophet who called himself Mohammed and to see how evil and how wicked and how contrary to God's laws were all his practises and preachings. We have sufficient insight, given to us by the very true God whom you revile, to see your ridiculous prophet for the devil worshipper that he was.

No, zakariyyaazzam, do not call us to arms in your evil cause, but rather come and join us in our just and loving cause. Defeat the inculcated evil that you have absorbed and see the light of God - the God of forgivness, the God of light, the God of love and the God of life. Please, before it is too late for you, come over to the light and the freedom and give your soul to God and reject, utterly, the witless maunderings of the devil-worshipping so-called prophet Mohammed. Renounce the devil Mohammed and accept God, please, before it is too late for you.

Oliver.

Posted by: OliverPCamford at April 13, 2008 1:52 AM

That was a fast delete. Someone is on the ball in the office :)

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 1:52 AM

:)

Posted by: MarisolJW at April 13, 2008 1:56 AM

OLIVER...That last paragraph was perfect, but I don't think Zak will hear it. By the time these guys
get around to coming here to defend Islam and/or threaten, they are already too far gone. I have yet to see a muslim or apologist on this site that was here to learn anything. I have yet to see one that actually did learn anything. Zak is here to agitate. He hardly refers to the Quran or Islam at all.
He has no actual point to make. Same with that lame that got deleted a bit ago. I doubt that he was even a muslim. Sounded more like a reject from Yahoo chat. Anyway Oliver, you were nicer to Zak than he deserves, but that's the hallmark of a good person...it's what separates us from them...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 2:26 AM

If you sprinkle holy water on the Ka'aba, will it melt?

Islam: paranoia posing as a religion.

Posted by: profitsbeard at April 13, 2008 2:26 AM

Exactly the type of warped thinking and 'look at me how I am persecuted' rhetoric that many in the public, the media and in politics have got to see through; if they can stop grovelling long enough to see anything other than the floor.

Posted by: marilyn at April 13, 2008 2:33 AM

Exactly the type of warped thinking and 'look at me how I am persecuted' rhetoric that many in the public, the media and in politics have got to see through; if they can stop grovelling long enough to see anything other than the floor.

Posted by: marilyn at April 13, 2008 2:34 AM

If you sprinkle holy water on the Ka'aba, will it melt?
Posted by: profitsbeard

Now that's a very good question that begs for an experiment. I wonder how hard it would be to smuggle holy water in there. Do they have holy water detectors at the gates? Maybe from the air?
I bet no one has thought of that before. You may be on to something...It always worked on Dracula...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 2:36 AM

If you sprinkle holy water on the Ka'aba, will it melt?

Islam: paranoia posing as a religion.

Posted by: profitsbeard

LOL!! You are always so clever, profitsbeard!! I suddenly flashed on the witch that melted in Oz, so I guess anything wicked will melt when it comes it contact with water. :-)

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 3:13 AM

Yea, well, pope did give prominence to this ex-muslim man. From that point of view it was a provocation. It is very rare that pope would baptize adults, instead of a local priest. But is like competition in business – HP stealing Dell’s clients and Dell stealing HP’s clients. And then having a press release how they have chosen leading **** and a leader in **** (implying that the company that lost a contract is a follower...).

++++++++++++++
HP as a “provocative and hostile act against Dell”.

We try to seek peace with the HP and the industry association but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”
++++++++++++++

But the man might be right; it is hostility if you don’t believe in the freedom of conscience. But they should have killed the apostate five years ago anyway...

Posted by: johnsawyer at April 13, 2008 5:07 AM

Resist You May; But Come to Terms; You Have To!

Since most of my friends as jihadwatch contributors are humming around here so I thought this may be worth repeating it here so the word of truth may be made known to them:-

One can cajole Islam or resist it, criticise it or even hate it; this may not be the matter of any contention. What matters the most is that we should know; what Islam is?

Religion of Islam is not some thing new. Islam is an improved, duly reformed and latest higher degree version of teachings tested and tried over centuries which were initially imparted by our common religious father Abraham. Islam with its latest Holy Book Quran fundamentally confirms the Torah of Moses and all the prophets of Jews; it clarifies the contentious position of the Reformer of Israelite the ‘Jesus the Christ’ and also confirms the true teachings contained in Bible. Islam where confirms and validates these old denominations, also makes them stand firm on their true foundations.

The very high held phenomena of Love is very much revered and relished in the circles of Christianity. This factor of Love is one which remains close to the hearts of all the Christian societies. Love thy neighbour; God is love and it is all but love of God, were the main guiding lines spelled out by the Reformer of Judaic- Jesus; who was a humble soul sent by God for Israelites. But one is tended to think that why after all only the message of love became so important that it was required to be spread in the societies? And why it was marked as the requirement of the time?

It is observed that before the advent of Jesus, Israelites were found very harsh in conduct and their hearts were very much hardened. God loves His creation, specially the human beings and it was required that tenderness of Love and affection remained filled in their lives. History tells us that Israelites were earlier found low of the low and destitute people under Pharaoh in Egypt. There lives were worthless. Life was but a misery. Their male members, even in infancy were taken away and killed. Ultimately they were told to migrate under the command of Moses* to escape the tyranny of Pharaoh.

Later to inculcate the sense of pride and honour among them; where they were supported with divinely provisions; special commandments and laws were also introduced. Laws like eye for eye; tooth for tooth and blood for blood were enforced. This has helped restore their dignity and pride among them but over the time these rules when became the cultural norms in society; it has made them haughty, cruel and their hearts were hardened. It needed a surgery to bring back the tenderness, love and affection among them. Love became the requirement of the day; so Jesus* a humble soul was sent to spread love.

Waters keep on flowing and time passes by; after Jesus era of reformation was over; God delivered His final Word and Islam dawned on the Horizons. Muhammad* brought Quran as a universal Guidance for the whole of mankind. In case of believers of Islam where Quran gives them the glad tidings; it also admonishes them very strenuously, lest they deviate from Allah’s path and be punished like the old defunct denominations who could earn nothing except the wrath of God. The strictness and supposedly stringent and stern instructions found in the commandments for the believers in Quran denote that there is no more a Jesus* like honeymoon period for them to avail. The completion and finalization of all the commandment and guidance required for the mankind has since been done. The boot camps trainings juvenile like period of push and pull; despair and hope and the era when sending of prophet at the head of every century was necessary to steer the masses back on to track has since gone. Even the completion phase of ‘Final Word of God’ required for the mankind has also fished with the advent of Prophet Muhammad*. Every thing is spelled out clear and with out any ambiguity. The truth stands clear of all the falsehood. It is action time to submit to Allah’s will with fullest of devotions. Muslims ought to be articulates enough to invite others to come and submit at the Altar of God lest it is too late and they all are doomed. Muslims have to strive very hard to full fill their duty. Muslims are told that Allah is the ultimate love and they should fear Allah that they are not caught for any slackness in their conducts to full fill their duty after this that final order has been passed and they should also lead their lives with a high hope that Allah is there to bless and forgive them.

Having known these facts and fundamentals in the religion; if some one negates Islam; he or she is not negating Islam but the entire mythology found in religion. He also negates the Torah and Bible and all the other valid scriptures and the prophets as well as the ‘Divinity of God’.

It is but imperative for all of us to know Allah’s plans and submit to His will. We need to carve our lives and our societies accordingly.

Resist we may; but come to terms; we have to.
---------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None

* Peace and blessings of Allah be upon them.

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 5:47 AM

Here is an article URL about the upcoming visit of Pope Benedict XVI to the USA this week.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080412/D900ECE81.html

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 5:58 AM

Winston Churchill On Islam

A quote from an 1899 book by Winston Churchill, "The River War", in which he describes Muslims he apparently observed during Kitchener's campaign in the Sudan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

Other quotes :

John Quincy Adams who wrote in 1829,

"The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force".

John Wesley (1703-91) who wrote,

"Ever since the religion of Islam appeared in the world, the espousers of it...have been as wolves and tigers to all other nations, rending and tearing all that fell into their merciless paws, and grinding them with their iron teeth; that numberless cities are raised from the foundation, and only their name remaining; that many countries, which were once as the garden of God, are now a desolate wilderness; and that so many once numerous and powerful nations are vanished from the earth! Such was, and is at this day, the rage, the fury, the revenge, of these destroyers of human kind".

Hilaire Belloc who wrote in 1938,

"Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam return and with it the menace of an armed Mohammedan world, which will shake off the domination of Europeans -- still nominally Christian -- and reappear as the prime enemy of our civilization? The future always comes as a surprise, but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam".

Bishop Fulton J Sheen who wrote in 1950,

"Today (1950), the hatred of the Moslem countries against the West is becoming hatred against Christianity itself. Although the statesmen have not yet taken it into account, there is still grave danger that the temporal power of Islam may return and, with it, the menace that it may shake off a West which has ceased to be Christian, and affirm itself as a great anti-Christian world Power".

Patriarch Cyrus of Alexandria, while negotiating the surrender of Alexandria to the Muslims, 640 AD,

"I am afraid that God has sent these men to lay waste the world".

Gregory Palamus of Thessalonica, 1354,

"For these impious people, hated by God and infamous, boast of having got the better of the Romans by their love of God…they live by the bow, the sword and debauchery, finding pleasure in taking slaves, devoting themselves to murder, pillage, spoil…and not only do they commit these crimes, but even — what an aberration — they believe that God approves of them. This is what I think of them, now that I know precisely about their way of life.".

William Eaton, US Consul to Tunis, wrote in 1799,

"Considered as a nation, they are deplorably wretched, because they have no property in the soil to inspire an ambition to cultivate it. They are abject slaves to the despotism of their government, and they are humiliated by tyranny, the worst of all tyrannies, the despotism of priestcraft. They live in more solemn fear of the frowns of a bigot who has been dead and rotten above a thousand years, than of the living despot whose frown would cost them their lives…The ignorance, superstitious tradition and civil and religious tyranny, which depress the human mind here, exclude improvement of every kind…"

"In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adams's capital letters)… Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant… While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and goodwill towards men." -John Quincy Adams

"The Muslim religion is so unreformed since it was created that nowhere in the Muslim world has there been any real advance in science, or art or literature, or technology in the last 500 years" - Lord Tebbit

"The true Islamic concept of peace goes something like this: "Peace comes through submission to Muhammad and his concept of Allah" (i.e. Islam). As such the Islamic concept of peace, meaning making the whole world Muslim, is actually a mandate for war. It was inevitable and unavoidable that the conflict would eventually reach our borders, and so it has." – Vernon Richards

“Islam was not a torch, as has been claimed, but an extinguisher. Conceived in a barbarous brain for the use of a barbarous people, it was - and it remains - incapable of adapting itself to civilization. Wherever it has dominated, it has broken the impulse towards progress and checked the evolution of society.” – Andre Servier, 1922

“The Greeks who triumphed at Marathon and Salamis did a work without which the world would have been deprived of the social value of Plato and Aristotle, of Aeschylus, Herodotus, and Thucydides. The civilization of Europe, America, and Australia exists today at all only because of the victories of civilized man over the enemies of civilization, because the victories stretching through the centuries from the days of Miltiades and Themistocles to those of Charles Martel in the eighth century and those of John Sobieski in the seventeenth century.”

“During the thousand years that included the careers of the Frankish soldier and the Polish king, the Christians of Asia and Africa proved unable to wage successful war with the Moslem conquerors; and in consequence Christianity practically vanished from the two continents; and today nobody can find in them any "social values" whatever, in the sense in which we use the words, so far as the sphere of Mohammedan influence. There are such "social values" today in Europe, America, and Australia only because during those thousand years the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do - that is, to beat back the Moslem invader.” – Theodore Roosevelt

"Of course, there are distinguished precedents even for the bleakest and coarsest of these judgements. To Montesquieu in 1748, Islam’s ‘destructive spirit’ spoke ‘only by the sword’; to Schopenhauer in 1819, the Koran was a ‘wretched book’ in which he had ‘not been able to discover one single idea of value’; to De Tocqueville in 1843, Islam was ‘deadly’, ‘to be feared’ and a ‘form of decadence’". – David Selbourne – The Losing Battle with Islam

And how about this quote from Ayatollah Khomeini from 1942:

“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us? Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.” - Ayatollah Khomeini

Posted by: Mike_W at April 13, 2008 6:00 AM

Here is a URL artcile of the upcoming visit by Pope Benedict XVI to the USA.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080412/D900ECE81.html

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 6:02 AM

Here is a URL artcile of the upcoming visit by Pope Benedict XVI to the USA.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080412/D900ECE81.html

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 6:04 AM

Obviously 'Khokar' the Muslim troll is not here to debate, but simply to deposit repetitive turds. Perhaps it is time to hit the ejection button?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 13, 2008 6:39 AM

Best to ignore such trolls and their rantings.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 7:33 AM

Sheik yer'mami and bigcatgirl,

Agreed that A Khokar is a trollific Mo'bot.

On another thread I posted a response to the same drivel, that I had already "come to terms" with Islam by concluding that Mohammad was a psychotic murderer, among other things. I had hoped that he might believe me, but the faithful Mo'bot didn't update his programming.

Instead, he merely copy/pasted the approved script, "after Jesus era of reformation was over; God delivered His final Word and Islam dawned on the Horizons. Muhammad* brought Quran as a universal Guidance for the whole of mankind."

Yes, this is Standard Islamic Creative Kookery (SICK).

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 8:02 AM

Lex,

"Instead, he merely copy/pasted the approved script, "after Jesus era of reformation was over; God delivered His final Word and Islam dawned on the Horizons. Muhammad* brought Quran as a universal Guidance for the whole of mankind."

The troll in question would be very suprised that many Muslims have left Islam and have embraced what this troll says is "Jesus reformation", better known as Christianity, as proof with the recent baptism of a former Muslim by Pope Benedect XVI. On this Good Shepard Sunday, I will not let a troll steal my peace of mind and heart.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 8:45 AM

"Qaradawi: Pope's baptism of Muslim convert a "provocative and hostile act against Muslims"

Hey Q, what do you call the willful and wanton destruction and desecrations of Christian Churches and the frequent drive by shootings , kidnappings and assassinations of the priests, nuns, and peaceful church goers in Muslim countries?

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 13, 2008 8:48 AM

Darcy wrote
We have to stop Muslim immigration. It's the M demographics that's killing Western Europe.

Yes, that's true. It's also true that Europeans have allowed themselves to be disarmed and emasculated. Americans still have the will and tools to resist. And I believe that ultimately, probably after a major nuclear or biological attack, we will rise up to protect ourselves since our politicians have failed to, and we will drive the islamic scourge from our country. Islam sucks, islam is ignorant. Islam is a stupid joke.

Posted by: Rick at April 13, 2008 9:32 AM

Dear All,

Muslims having received the last commandments of God-Quran finds themselves in a difficult situation where they are revealed that God Almighty is seriously angered by the conduct of previous two denominations; Judaic and Christianity. Unfortunately they both are not placed in His good books. The Koran in chapter 4 (Al-Nisa) verse 48-49 says; [4:48] “O ye people of the Book! Believe in what We have now sent down, fulfilling that which is with you, before We destroy some of your leaders and turn them on their backs or curse them as We cursed the people of the Sabbath. And the decree of Allah is bound to be fulfilled.” and
[4:49] “Surely, Allah will not forgive that a partner be associated with Him; but He will forgive whatever is short of that to whomsoever He pleases. And whoso associates partners with Allah has indeed devised a very great sin.”

Muslims have been revealed a full account of conduct of previous denominations with an ample amount of warning; through Koran. They are cautioned, not to deviate after this, that they have received the clear guidance. In light of knowledge revealed to them; Only they can choose to submit to the ‘Will of God’ and live by it. A Muslim may be good or bad in his personal capacity and may go to any limit in the service of society and looking after the chores of neighbour hood or mix up with his other non-Muslim friends but he or she may not compromise on the covenant that they entered into with God Almighty. The covenant which is simply to submit to the Will of God and act as per His revealed guidance contained in Holy Koran and full fill the obligations with out any hesitation; and in true spirit.

This is not being harsh; but Muslims have to reject all that, which God has rejected. They even don’t care for their lives or loss of kith or kin to full fill their obligations. Knowing it to be such, it will be absurd to expect, any compromise from a true Muslim. Here Muslims simply do no have any choice. It must not perturb our friends that under the divine guidance and with out any personal anonymity; Muslims are supposed to be a ‘True Mirror’ to reflect the true picture for the onlookers; with out an iota of fallacy or deceit. This put the Muslims often in a difficult situation and most of the time Muslims are reaping the rancour and repercussion by the people not knowing it and looking at the things with different angles. Where others want to keep the matter of faith and religion, on some back burners, and that too, to keep them turned off ; Muslims are suppose to hold it high and keep it at a full rate fire. Muslims are indeed our true friends to lead us through. They earnestly and really care for the salvation of their fellow human beings. They are in True knowledge of it and carry the Beacon of Truth as revealed to them by God. It is incumbent upon them to spread its lights and blessing to all the fellow human beings living in every nooks and corners of the Earth.

Chapter: 5 (Al-Ma'idah) Verse: 49; “And We have revealed unto thee the Book comprising the truth and fulfilling that which was revealed before it in the Book, and as a guardian over it. Judge, therefore, between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their evil desires, turning away from the truth which has come to thee. For each of you We prescribed a clear spiritual Law and a manifest way in secular matters. And if Allah had enforced His will, He would have made you all one people, but He wishes to try you by that which He has given you. Vie then with one another in doing good works. To Allah shall you all return; then He will inform you of that wherein you differed”.

With all this submitted above, I hope by now we understand that what is this all about that we all are going through; and where we stand in our personal, individual capacities?

It doesn’t take much;… If only we are able to find some time and can make an effort to wake up at night to spare our beds and stand in front of God in true supplication. Try to reach for our soul and search and are able to roll some tears down our cheeks in the love of God; we will certainly come to know, where we stand. We have to come out of the delusion and our castles of fallacy wrapped around us which are keeping us so insulated and away from the rays of truth. We ought to submit to the terms of God Almighty----that’s all.

No one has ever been able to frustrate the plan of our Creator. Many a times the oppressors have come up to inflict fatal injuries and pain to the believers. They often make believers worldly lives miserable. Oppressors do get some success in it —but temporarily. Matter of fact is they do come up but to… perish only.
-------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for none

* Peace be upon him

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 9:35 AM

Ever notice how they never debate any points but only throw turds. Verily they have become as a similitude to apes, even, who are also known to use this form of projectile. Or would that be pigs, who wallow in turds. I, nabi ZK, have proclaimed it.

Seriously. We have never had a mohametan visitor who was on the up and up. Never. Can anyone name one? Nope.

nabi ZK

...and verily truth is plain from falsehood....

Posted by: zonie kafir at April 13, 2008 9:50 AM

A Khokar,

Your prophet was a sex and booty obsessed, vengeance seeking murderer, deceived and deceiving, an object of wrath. Believe him at your own peril. His Qur'an came from hell.

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 9:56 AM

nabi ZK,

I think the difference is that pigs eat turds, whereas apes, who have an exquisitely refined palette, would rather throw them in a pinch, or after a pinch, as the case may be. They also dress better than pigs.

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 10:05 AM

Nabi,

Seriously. We have never had a mohametan visitor who was on the up and up. Never. Can anyone name one? Nope.

I saw Munawar have to jetison the ahadith and the sahaba, after that, I guess he must have imploded. Haven't seen him since.

I don't think they can be truly on the "up and up". Imagine having to defend that self-contradictory garbage. How can you debate when over half your brain is fighting cognitive dissonance? Some part of it has to be doing vital functions. There's just not much left to work with.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 13, 2008 10:17 AM

Dear All,

Muslims having received the last commandments of God- --Khokar

Ha-Ha! Thanks for my morning laugh, brainwashed, bamboozled, Mohammedan.

After reading that arrogant falsehood as the first sentence, I didn't bother reading more. Mohammedans are like simple children, believing whatever is told to them. No reasoning capabilities or critical thinking whatsoever. Mo'bots.

Posted by: darcy at April 13, 2008 10:59 AM

Kookie writes:

In light of knowledge revealed to them; Only they can choose to submit to the ‘Will of God’ and live by it. A Muslim may be good or bad in his personal capacity and may go to any limit in the service of society and looking after the chores of neighbour hood or mix up with his other non-Muslim friends but he or she may not compromise on the covenant that they entered into with God Almighty.

This, Kookie, is the difference between Islam and moral systems. This is the difference between a God who made humanity in his image, as decision makers, and a god who cares how many butts in the air he sees on a daily basis and whether they, if pushed, would kill anyone for any reason if it advanced that god's cause.

In your ridiculous model of social contract, personal actions don't matter. A Muslim may be "good or bad in his personal capacity". It is for that reason that your political systems, technological ennui, and social constructs fail. You are unaccountable to your fellow man, your god does not judge you on the clear evil many of you do, and your children are warped with the most worthless of belief systems.

But don't change anything...Islam is immutable. It will just make it easier to explain to others why it should disappear as a political and social influence.

Who with half a brain would buy this crap?

Posted by: winoceros at April 13, 2008 11:38 AM

Ever notice how they never debate any points but only throw turds.

That's called 'preaching' muslim style.
Khokar is here to preach. In his Islamic fogged mind, he has descended into hell and is preaching to demons. As far as I know Jesus the Prophet never 'debated' anything with demons, so none of these hierophants of superior knowledge want to debate
either. Knowledge runs downhill. That's why superior people don't debate, they just pontificate.
If most muslims had to actually debate, they soon fall from the superior position. That's what taqiyya is for, it's a crutch for falling muslims. Knock that crutch out and down they go...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 11:48 AM

duh_swami,

"That's called 'preaching' muslim style.
Khokar is here to preach. In his Islamic fogged mind, he has descended into hell and is preaching to demons. As far as I know Jesus the Prophet never 'debated' anything with demons, so none of these hierophants of superior knowledge want to debate
either. Knowledge runs downhill. That's why superior people don't debate, they just pontificate.
If most muslims had to actually debate, they soon fall from the superior position. That's what taqiyya is for, it's a crutch for falling muslims. Knock that crutch out and down they go..."

It is not suprising that we are reading what looks like "preaching" Muslim style. That style comes from the Koran, which has verses that are demon(s)-inspired. No wonder there was a book called "The Satanic Verses".

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 12:22 PM

A Khokar,

If Islam and the Koran are so wonderful, why is it that up to 6 million Muslims a year have left Islam to ebrace the "real" Jesus, the Jesus of the Holy Bible and the Christian faith, including that former Muslim who was baptized a few weeks ago by the Pope?

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 12:25 PM

>>“We try to seek peace with the Vatican and the World Council of Churches but in vain. They keep provoking us by their hostility.”

ROTFLOL

Posted by: beachhutman at April 13, 2008 12:47 PM

No wonder there was a book called "The Satanic Verses".
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106

Never mind Salman Rushdie's book. That's actually a good name for the Koran.

A Khokar,

I checked for your rays of truth and, after much deliberation, decided to stick to my shahada.

"There is no Allah, and Muhammad was a barbarian".

This sounds much more like the truth to me.

Posted by: Dsinc at April 13, 2008 1:30 PM

I am a big fan of copy/pasting information myself, but only when presenting facts, not fiction.

AK, in his first paragraph, has copy/pasted some real ficticious whoppers for us to digest this morning:

"Muslims having received the last commandments of God-Quran finds themselves in a difficult situation where they are revealed that God Almighty is seriously angered by the conduct of previous two denominations; Judaic and Christianity."

I am going to step out on a limb here by saying that this is a LIE, and for those of you who bristle at my frankness, then allow me to offer up the PC version: this is utter nonsense.

It suffices to say that God Almighty is the One who is seriously angered at THESE two: Muhammad and Allah, and with anyone foolish enough to fall for this religious hoax known as Islam.

These lies give me indigestion - and that was after reading the first paragraph. I haven't even addressed the rest of his comment. Perhaps someone with a stronger stomach for lies can assist me on this.

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 2:09 PM

Allah Is Not The God of The Bible:

http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/is_allah_not_God.html

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 2:17 PM

Any of you guys have an old tranquilizer dart lying around? We have a troublesome oxygen waster who needs to be relocated.

Posted by: pismopal at April 13, 2008 3:05 PM

Dear All,

My humble request to all my flagrant mouth fouling friends would be that; please keep a good grip on civility. No names calling. When civility flees the arrogance moves in to occupy the vacuum.

(For sure; every one of us is aware of few words from mouth fouling vocabularies)

------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for none.

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 3:23 PM

Call out one name caller, Mr. Straw Man, and ignore those cogent argument presented that refute your illogic.

You can't help it, it's institutional. You were taught that was reason.

No rebuttal, of course.

Posted by: winoceros at April 13, 2008 3:29 PM

Dearest Khokar,

As you must be aware, to our ears, there is nothing fouler than your deceitful da'wa. Nothing more offensive or more arrogant than

-your equation of Allah with Yahweh
-your false portrayal of Islam as the successor of two noble religions
-your false denials of the offensive nature of Islamic imperialism
-your deceitful denials of the facts of Mohammed's life and teachings that were reprehensible (e.g. pedophilia, adultery, murders, etc.)
-your occasional unveiled approval of the most disgusting elements of Islam, such as "defensive" rapes, forced annulments of marriages, forced conversions, use of captives as sex slaves, mutilations, torture, dismemberments, amputations, etc.

Your da'wa is so inept that you are having a negative impact on the perception of Islam, as though it could go any lower in this forum. What, do you think you can inculcate us into Islam by bleating the same cut-and-paste refrains over and over?

Grow up, Khokar, you are a really sick bird.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 13, 2008 3:38 PM

Dear Big Cat Girl:

Your statement is seriously a ‘flawed piece of information’ and totally blown up. Please state with authenticity.

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 4:07 PM

Champ, Duh_swami, Pismopal, Big Cat Girl, Winoceros, Dsinc , and Lex,

Dear All,

If people are trying to awake to the reality and are discussing God in a positive way; let them please do it. Don’t try to administer vicious morphine that they are even unable to look over the barriers of hatred created around them. Let the stream of truth flow freely to reach the lives of decent, humble and innocent people.

Let’s us serve our God in a positive way and let the people search the inner souls and feel for their inner calls!

A couplet (translation)*A man; may he be from any age, century, trail or a creed!
When ever he has risen; he rose to the call of his inner self; his Inner Conscious.
------------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 4:09 PM

A Khokar,

Did research on Google and came up with LOTS of info. This is just an example:

http://dotherightthing-cyberpastor.blogspot.com/2008/04/islam-and-christianitylooking-at.html

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 4:14 PM

AK -

Vicious morphine? Name calling? Foul language?

WHERE - and from whom?!

I know I called you A Konman on a previous thread, so in all fairness, you may call me chump if it makes you feel better - others have. The difference between us; is that it doesn't ruffle my feathers.

But seriously, what vicious morphine are you talking about? You need to be more specific on that one.

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 4:24 PM

Dear Concerned Citizen,

I shall pray that a day comes in your life that you study all this what all you study (that you are good at it); A day when you are able to read with out a preset mind and preconceived ideas; as a humble student of comparative 'studies in religion'; as a man who has the craving for the truth only.

Cordially,
A Khokar

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 4:41 PM

That his incoherence would pass for wisdom in some beard wagging Friday meeting, and that "truth" to this same crowd would involve everyone nodding and smiling at the same incoherence is revealing.

When Muslims rise up by seeking their inner consciousness, you hang them as apostates. Don't give me your empty rhetoric. You say in one posting a Muslim can be good or bad as long as he doesn't betray Allah's covenant. Now you say let's serve our God in a positive way.

Why? If it doesn't matter to Allah, what purpose does it serve?

You wouldn't know logic if it bit you in the tush.

Posted by: winoceros at April 13, 2008 4:58 PM

AK -

I shall pray that a day comes in your life that you study all this what all you study (that you are good at it); A day when you are able to read with out a preset mind and preconceived ideas; as a humble student of comparative 'studies in religion'; as a man who has the craving for the truth only:

ALLAH IS NOT THE GOD OF THE BIBLE:
http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/is_allah_not_God.html

"Muslims believe that there is no other God besides Allah and that he is the God of the universe. They claim that not only is he their God, but that he is the God of the Jews, the Christians and everyone else."

"When examining the profile of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and comparing it with Allah’s profile, there are a number of distinct differences between them that can only result in one conclusion: These profiles simply do not match! Allah is NOT the God of the Bible!"

"The Islamic faith, through the teachings of Muhammad, asserts that Allah is God and attempt to place him within the confines of the Holy Scriptures. When the Bible contradicts their teachings, they allege that it is flawed, has been tampered with, and has many errors. They further claim that the Koran, through the teachings of their prophet Muhammad, corrects them. However, it has already been established that Muhammad was both a false prophet and teacher. Therefore, Islam’s allegations are unsupported, baseless and without merit."

"There are a number of major differences between the God of the Bible and Allah. This chapter will focus upon five reasons why they are not the same. According to the Holy Scriptures, the God of the Bible is the one true God while Allah is a false god."

Read it all!

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 4:59 PM

Big Cat Girl,

I my self know a lot about UK and work in close quarter with Inter Faith Relation organisations. There has been no news like this. This is merely blowing up the Magdi Allam issue to make it media hype in favour of Christianity. An old trickery to blow up statistics and make happy the old man-'His Eminence the Pope Benedict' and earn few favours.

UK is a place where (most) people‘s religion is Football and not Christianity!
----------------------------
Love for all, hatred for None

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 5:09 PM

A K (and anyone who may be 'buying' his soft soap)

Hear the wisdom of Ali Sina, apostate from Islam, discussing the Golden Rule, on his faithfreedom website:

"I do not have to prove the legitimacy of the Golden Rule. I don’t think I have to prove day is bright and night is dark to a seeing person, and to a blind, that won’t make any difference. The Golden Rule is a universal principle and it is self-evident.

"We must not measure the validity of the Golden Rule with what Muhammad said, but rather we must establish the legitimacy of his claim by the yardstick of the Golden Rule.

"We humans instinctively measure every right and wrong with the yardstick of the Golden Rule.

"The Golden Rule is the shared belief of all mankind and a self-evident principle.

"The essence of the Golden Rule is: “Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you.” It is through this principle that we know stealing is bad, murder is bad, rape is bad, cheating is bad, and kindness is good, generosity is good, forgiveness is good etc."

Ali Sina continues:
"Some cynics say the Golden Rule is flawed. For example a masochist who likes to be mistreated, by applying the Golden Rule will abuse others who do not like it. This is obviously a misunderstanding of the concept of the Golden Rule.

"A much more accurate definition of the Golden Rule is: Treat others with the same consideration and respect that you wish to be treated.
It does not mean do to others exactly what you like to be done to you. For example, if you like peanut butter, it does not mean you should feed it to someone who is allergic to it, which can kill him. It does not mean you should take your wife who likes concerts, to a basketball game because you like basketball or invite your Hindu friend to a barbeque because you are a meat lover when you know he is vegetarian."

Ali Sina then lists versions of this Rule that are found in all high civilisations, and all major religions and philosophies - EXCEPT Islam.

Since A K claims Islam is superior to Christianity and Judaism, here is the Golden Rule as formulated by the 1st century Jew Yeshua/ Jesus of Nazareth:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version [all translations agree].
"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version [all translations agree].

And as formulated by Judaism, generally:
Judaism: "...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18
"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
"And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15.

Ali Sina in his essay on the Golden Rule rightly draws our attention to Islam's very different teaching, as expressed in the Quran surah 48:29 -

""Muhammad is Allah's Apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another” .

Note that the word translated as 'ruthless' by N Dawood, is rendered as 'harsh' or 'stern' or 'cruel' by other translators.

In other words: for Muslims, compassion is meant or assumed to apply only to fellow Muslims; it is taken for granted that ruthlessness, cruelty, may be practised toward everyone else.

The Buddha would have been horrified.

Yeshua, too, would be horrified.

I would put it this way - Islam's ethos is dualistic. There is one rule for the Uebermensch, the Muslim; another for the non-Muslim untermenschen - who throughout the Islamosphere, throughout its history, have very often been treated not as fellow humans, but as prey, as 'things' to be used and abused at will, cold-heartedly and with withering contempt. There is a great deal more that can be said to show this - Ali Sina provides an excellent discussion with lots of examples - but I think this will do for now.

A K. Viewed against Surah 48:29, your sign-off line is a blatant lie, a concealment of the nature of Islam.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 13, 2008 5:13 PM

AK: If people are trying to awake to the reality and are discussing God in a positive way;

There is no positive way to discuss Allah in a positive way for infidels, only muslims, and other sloooow minded self deluders do that...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 5:19 PM

A Khokar,

Consider this from Paul's epistle to the Galatians 1:8. It's in the New Testament. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!"

Paul was well aware that the gospel that he preached would be attacked, distorted, ridiculed and rejected by enemies of the truth, by those who would not and could not believe that Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice for sin and rose from the dead, just as he said he would in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Along came Mohammad, 6 CENTURIES later, who after being instructed by his angellic medium "Gabriel" about what REALLY happened 6 CENTURIES earlier, preached a "gospel" that radically contradicted the one that Paul and Co. preached, thereby fulfilling Galatians 1:8, and you believe Mohammad over Paul. Why?

It doesn't faze you at all that Mohammad was a murderer, a rapist, a thief, and a liar, and that this is the picture that the Qur'an and Hadith paint of a man whose only "proof" of prophethood was that he claimed to be a prophet and to speak the words of Allah. That's it, nothing more. No miracles, but lots of bloodshed, not only in his lifetime, but in the 14 centuries since he blighted the earth with his all-consuming hatred of "infidels," meaning especially Jews and Christians, people like me and my friends. Still, you believe this butcher over Paul, Peter, James, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Why?

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 5:19 PM

ISLAM IS EVIL!!

MUHAMMAD IS EVIL!!

ALLAH IS EVIL!!

THE QUR'AN IS EVIL!!

....AND ANYONE WHO SUBSCRIBES TO THE ABOVE ARE EVIL AS WELL!!

Oh - feeling offended are we, AK? You and all your poopaganda is offensive; and I don't care how nice you try to "appear", we are not buying what your selling. Good-bye!

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 5:35 PM

Dear Big Cat Girl,

Quote me a single ‘verse from Bible’ which confirms- Trinity (Ordained by God). You will not find even one but this Trinity is very much mentioned in the Holy Book Of Quran;

Allah says:

Al-Ma'idah Chapter 5 : Verse 74
They surely disbelieve who say, 'Allah is the third of three;' there is no god but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.

Al-Ma'idah Chapter 5 : Verse 73
Indeed, they are disbelievers, who say, 'Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Mary,' whereas the Messiah himself said, 'O Children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.' Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.

Al-Ma'idah Chapter 5 : Verse 76
The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely Messengers like unto him had passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.

Al-Nisa' Chapter 4 : Verse 172
O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He had sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, 'They are three.' Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.

---------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 5:45 PM

dumbledoresarmy,

Thanks especially for sharing Ali Sina's elucidation on the Golden Rule!

In that light it appears that A Khokar, a truly sensitive soul, is really trying to reinvent Islam to salve his own troubled conscience. He knows that Mohammad was an appallingly bloody brute -we've made that abundantly clear to him from Islam's own authoritative sources- but he can't admit it, not to us, not yet, anyway.

As you say, "Viewed against Surah 48:29, your sign-off line is a blatant lie, a concealment of the nature of Islam."

In the end, truth wins.

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 5:55 PM

BLASHEMY/LIE ALERT:

AK states: "Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian."

Here's the TRUTH to offset these LIES:

"In the beginning was Jesus (a.k.a. The Word), and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God. Jesus was with God in the beginning." John 1:1-2

"There are Three who were present in the beginning: The Father, Jesus The Son, and The Holy Spirit; and These Three are One God." 1 John 5:7

"Jesus created the heavens and the earth." John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 5:57 PM

A Khokar,

Allow me to comment on your post to bigcatgirl.

You wrote, "Quote me a single ‘verse from Bible’ which confirms- Trinity (Ordained by God). You will not find even one..."

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. [Matthew 28:19].

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all [2 Corinthians 13:14].

To God’s elect. . .who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood [1 Peter 1:1-2].

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 6:00 PM

Post scriptum -

since A. K. claims to be involved in 'inter faith' discussions in the UK - I do most sincerely hope that the other folks in the discussions are using a L.O.N.G spoon.

Anyway: since the article we're supposed to be discussing concerns Magdi Cristiano Allam (God bless him! brave man!), let's hear the testimony of Signore Allam himself, concerning his baptism and the process which led to it:

"For me it is the most beautiful day of [my] life. To acquire the gift of the Christian faith during the commemoration of Christ’s resurrection by the hand of the Holy Father is, for a believer, an incomparable and inestimable privilege."

" At almost 56 […], it is a historical, exceptional and unforgettable event, which marks a radical and definitive turn with respect to the past.

"The miracle of Christ’s resurrection reverberated through my soul, liberating it from the darkness in which the preaching of hatred and intolerance in the face of the “different,” uncritically condemned as “enemy,” were privileged over love and respect of “neighbor,” who is always and in every case, “person”; thus, as my mind was freed from the obscurantism of an ideology that legitimates lies and deception, violent death that leads to murder and suicide, the blind submission to tyranny, I was able to adhere to the authentic religion of truth, of life and of freedom.

"On my first Easter as a Christian I not only discovered Jesus, I discovered for the first time the face of the true and only God, who is the God of faith and reason."

Note that well, everyone here. Can you not hear the joy of a liberated soul, singing through the carefully chosen words?

"My conversion to Catholicism is the touching down of a gradual and profound interior meditation from which I could not pull myself away, given that for five years I have been confined to a life under guard, with permanent surveillance at home and a police escort for my every movement, because of death threats and death sentences from Islamic extremists and terrorists, both those in Italy and those outside.

"I had to ask myself about the attitude of those who publicly declared fatwas, Islamic juridical verdicts, against me -- I who was a Muslim -- as an “enemy of Islam,” “hypocrite because he is a Coptic Christian who pretends to be a Muslim to do damage to Islam,” “liar and vilifier of Islam,” legitimating my death sentence in this way.

"I asked myself how it was possible that those who, like me, sincerely and boldly called for a “moderate Islam,” assuming the responsibility of exposing themselves in the first person in denouncing Islamic extremism and terrorism, ended up being sentenced to death in the name of Islam on the basis of the Quran.

"I was forced to see that, beyond the contingency of the phenomenon of Islamic extremism and terrorism that has appeared on a global level, the root of evil is inherent in an Islam that is physiologically violent and historically conflictive."

Signore Allam studied, read, and thought; he reflected on the teachings of both religions, and on the visible fruit of Islam as compared to the visible fruit of Christianity. Then he made his decision. He left Islam, as publicly as he possibly could, and became a Christian, even though he knew that by doing so he might be signing his death warrant.

Will A . K. respect that decision, made by an intelligent adult in full command of his faculties? Qaradawi, of course, does not - he heaps abuse upon Signore Allam as well as upon the Pope. Qaradawi tries to loftily pretend ('sour grapes' style) that this particular conversion does not matter - "We do not feel regret over the conversion of that person" - but everything else he says, in a long and ugly tirade, makes it clear that Qaradawi is hopping mad.

Aside to A. K: here's a thought experiment. Suppose a Muslim assassin were to murder Signore Magdi Cristiano Allam. Suppose you knew who it was, and the police did not.

WOULD YOU TURN IN THE ASSASSIN TO THE POLICE? YES OR NO?

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 13, 2008 6:01 PM

More commentary for A Khokar:

Al-Ma'idah Chapter 5 : Verse 74 They surely disbelieve who say, 'Allah is the third of three;' there is no god but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.

Jesus referred to God as "Father," and said that it was needful for him to return to that same "Father" so that he might send the "Spirit," which, surprise, surprise, has been interpreted by Muslim scholars to be a reference to Mohammad. They had to find ANY reference that could be tortured into what they sought: an affirmation from the "corrupt" Bible that Mohammad was a legit and even foreordained prophet! No, it does no good to accuse Muslims of blasphemy.

Al-Ma'idah Chapter 5 : Verse 73 Indeed, they are disbelievers, who say, 'Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Mary,' whereas the Messiah himself said, 'O Children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord.' Surely, whoso associates partners with Allah, him has Allah forbidden Heaven, and the Fire will be his resort. And the wrongdoers shall have no helpers.

Hmm. Who said that Allah is the Messiah? It sure wasn't Christians, and where in the Bible did the Messiah say, "'O Children of Israel, worship Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord?" I need Book, Chapter, and Verse, please. As for partners, it looks to me that Mohammad was Allah's indispensable partner in foisting, I mean revealing the Qur'an, so the reward for all of his good work in partnership with Allah is "the Fire." Too bad for him!

Al-Ma'idah Chapter 5 : Verse 76 The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely Messengers like unto him had passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food. See how We explain the Signs for their good, and see how they are turned away.

Was Mary truthful? Consider that Luke's infancy narrative, which he could only have gotten from Mary, radically contradicts the Qur'an's accounting, which even has Jesus speaking from the crib (how odd that there was a Gnostic account that held just that)so either Mary or Luke were lying...If Mohammad had said that "neither of them ate food," how many would have believed it?

Al-Nisa' Chapter 4 : Verse 172 O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He had sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, 'They are three.' Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.

So, that's what it's all about! Allah is far above having a son! But, A Khokar, to believe this is to bind God's hands, and that is blasphemy! It is not your place, or Mohammad's, to say what Allah can and can't do. If Allah so chooses to become human in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, for example, that is, to become fully human while remaining fully divine -see the Nicene Creed- then Allah is free to do just that. Mohammad couldn't grasp the concept, so he lied about it, and that, dear friend, is the truth of it. Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 6:31 PM

Khokar,

I have some light reading for you, since you seem to not be able to resolve the Christian Trinity. Perhaps you are confused by the errant Qur'anic version (Allah, Jesus, Mary). Anyway, at risk of throwing pearls before swine, I offer you this link

Athanasius, On the Incarnation

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 13, 2008 6:45 PM

LOL, if "Muslims" existed before the early 7th century AD, they would be mentioned in the Bible, BC. However, NO "Muslims" are mentioned in the Bible!

Hey brainwashed Kook - provide us a verse in which "Muslims" are mentioned in the Bible!

LOL! You can't do it! Because they're NOT there! Islam didn't exist until 622 AD! NOT an Abrahamic religion!

P.S. Your pagan moon god rock idol is a false god. As Mohammed the Warlord is a false prophet.

Posted by: darcy at April 13, 2008 7:21 PM

Khokar,

The earliest copy of the Gospel of Mark dates to around 70 AD
The earliest copy of the Gospel of Luke (P75), dates to 175 - 225 AD

They are in essentially the same form as used currently.

The Qur'an states the Injeel contained the truth. Ibn Hazm, two hundred years after Mohammed, stated they were corrupted (tahrif) after the time of Mohammed.

Now how is it that the Qur'an accounts are discrepant with the Gospels, but much later Islamic commentators declared the cause of the discrepancy was the post-Qur'anic corruption of the Gospels, when the Gospels haven't changed???

P.S. Are you finished reading Athanasius yet?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 13, 2008 7:37 PM

Dear Champ and Lex,

‘I understand now that Word of God and to know the Truth in religion are not your cup of tea and any discussion pertaining to the scheme of deliverance of the Word of God and its fulfilment at it summit for the mankind; is just like playing a saxophone melody tunes to a buffalo’.
-----------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for None

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 7:58 PM

I waited to see if Khokar would answer Dumbledoresarmy's question before banning him.

Not that I really expected he would.

Posted by: MarisolJW at April 13, 2008 8:04 PM

A Khokar,

"Big Cat Girl,

I my self know a lot about UK and work in close quarter with Inter Faith Relation organisations. There has been no news like this. This is merely blowing up the Magdi Allam issue to make it media hype in favour of Christianity. An old trickery to blow up statistics and make happy the old man-'His Eminence the Pope Benedict' and earn few favours.

UK is a place where (most) people‘s religion is Football and not Christianity!"

When Magdi Allam was baptized, he is a representive of the 6 million Muslims that leave Islam to, often to embrace the Christian faith. This is a fact that cannot be denied A Khokar.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 13, 2008 8:28 PM

Love for all, Hatred for None

Posted by: A Khokar at April 13, 2008 7:58 PM

Concerning Islam, just reverse this to "Hatred for all, Love for None." Ah, now that's right.

Posted by: darcy at April 13, 2008 8:47 PM

Khokar...if you are still around, these are your words:

I shall pray that a day comes in your life that you study all this what all you study (that you are good at it); A day when you are able to read with out a preset mind and preconceived ideas; as a humble student of comparative 'studies in religion'; as a man who has the craving for the truth
Posted by: A Khokar April 13, 2008 4:41 PM

If you take your own advice and apply it to the Quran, and you stick around here long enough, we will cause you to apostate. You will begin to see flaws, then holes, then rot in Islams thin covering. Probably you will convert to Christianity...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 13, 2008 8:49 PM

Hi, duh_swami, I think AK was banned, judging from Marisol's comment.

We no longer have to read his "Love for all" nonsense any more. That slogan was like nails on a chalkboard.

Hey, Darcy, you got that right, "Hatred for all, Love for None", is more like it.

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 9:04 PM

A Khokar (yes, I know he has been banned),

Again, may God have mercy on you, and lead you to the straight path. Another link for you,

Romans 1

Please read verses 18-32. Ponder.

For now, there is only one thing I would like you to get out of this:

You have a conscience.

Use it.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 13, 2008 9:24 PM

If a muslim converts to almost anything that would be an improvement. Don't get picky and don't complain when they choose not to believe in your god. It's hard enough just to get them to take an objective look at Islam in the first place.

Posted by: Pelayo at April 13, 2008 9:29 PM

Concerned Citizen, I think that Romans 1:18-32 was a poor choice. Romans 1:32 - Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Do you realize that that passage is has been used to justify all manner of ill treatment of homosexuals? (deserve death) Fred Phelps has centered his ministry on passages such as this. We can discuss what "deserve death" means all day long. The fact that some people think it is justification for all manner of criminal acts, is inescapable.

Posted by: Pelayo at April 13, 2008 9:52 PM

Pelayo,

The intent was to send Khokar on a ruminating spiral, assuming he would see in those verses a condemnation of Western depravity, but hoping that underneath he would have some glint of introspection that these depravities he would condemn, by irony, are the same depravities that Islam extols as virtues.

For example (truncated list),

sinful desires
shameful lusts
depraved mind
greed
envy
murder
strife
deceit
malice
arrogant
boastful
inventing ways of doing evil
heartless
ruthless

Which is why I chided him to use his conscience. (we all start with one, some become dull). We've brought up numerous issues with Khokar that should pain a natural conscience; some he circularly tried to address and writhe out from under, others he conspicuously tried to ignore. We will not win him without causing him to recognize that he already knows these things to be naturally wrong. Look at many of the accounts of Muslim apostates. There is often a sentinel event that pricked that near dead conscience and enlivened it. That is, in my opinion, his only hope.

Do you realize that that passage is has been used to justify all manner of ill treatment of homosexuals?

I realize that there is no justification or authority given me, as a Christian, given in Christian scripture, to physically or psychologically mistreat anyone. The list above is truncated, we've ALL done something on the inclusive list from Romans 1. That realization is supposed to engender personal humility and gratitude for divine mercy, not arrogance, because...it's on the list, too.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 13, 2008 10:30 PM

Today, April 13, 2008, or Good Shepherd Sunday, was also Ban Day for two of Mohammad's slaves, Zak and A Khokar. Zak probably won't see this, but A Khokar might. This is my "cup of tea," as it were.

John 10 The Shepherd and His Flock

1"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father— and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life— only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

What does Mohammad have in common with Jesus, the good shepherd?

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 10:38 PM

Last I heard, buffaloes are quite responsive to saxaphone melody tunes.

BTW, A Khokar, you REALLY should read Athanasius, On the Incarnation He battled against the Arian heresy and it was that very heresy that had made its way to the Arabian peninsula by the time Mohammad appeared on the scene. It helped to distort his doctrine about Jesus the Word of God incarnate.

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 11:00 PM

Concerned Citizen, I still think you should have omitted verse 32.

Posted by: Pelayo at April 14, 2008 4:41 PM