There sure is a lot of "Anti-Islamic" activity these days, according to UK Home Secretary Jacqui Smith.

For the consequences of the UK Establishment's betrayal, look no further the Balkans.

Posted by: Henry at April 13, 2008 7:47 AM

It's only a matter of time before one of the myriad of plots is successful. No matter how good the police and national security services are, they can't be everywhere, all the time.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at April 13, 2008 7:59 AM

"This reporter could just as easily, and more accurately, have written this: "Britain has seen a marked increase in militant Islamist plots since it embarked upon a policy of appeasement and see-no-evil, speak-no-evil, hear-no-evil regarding the Muslim community."

....absolutely!!!, but we all know reporters prefer sounding defeatist over sounding correct...

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 13, 2008 8:02 AM

Er, make that 2000 individuals, not 22,000 Robert :)
it's bad, but not that bloody bad yet!

Oh, wait...

Posted by: Un:dhimmi at April 13, 2008 8:08 AM

" 22 000 individuals".

Well - why are those 22 000 individuals still in the UK?

So there are "30 active plots".

How many Muslims are up to their necks in those 'active plots'? How many know about them?

Why are the authorities just sitting there watching them?

What constitutes an 'active plot'? Why is it not grounds for the persons involved, to be simply booted out of the UK on a one-way ticket, minus citizenship?

(Now: let's imagine a different scenario, nothing to do with Islam: the police discover that Joe Blow is actively conspiring with a couple of hit-men, with a view to murdering his wife, his neighbour, or his boss...what happens? Does everybody just sit and watch? Is there not a point at which the Law, if thus apprised beforehand, is required to shove a spanner in the works?)

And why does no one remark on the screamingly obvious fact that there are no such 'active plots' - plots for spectacular mass murder, by adherents of a religion, of those who have 'offended' by choosing to reject that religion - to be found among Buddhists and Taoists in Britain, in Christian churches, in Jewish synagogues, or Sikh or Hindu temples? Why is it that somehow all of these 'active plots' and all of these 'individuals' are linked with just one religion...Islam?

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 13, 2008 8:10 AM

Britain was once described as "a nation of shopkeepers".

It was often accredited to Napoleon but in actual fact it was Adam Smith, one of the brains behind The Enlightenment, who used the expression in his "Wealth of Nations".

I kind of like it as an analogy.

So, let's just say you're a shopkeeper and you find out that some of your customers are being poisoned, what do you do?

You establish how, that's what. Dead customers aren't good for business, even if they only number a handful.

So, let's just say, you establish that all of the poison victims had bought a certain brand of apples from you.

And let's just say that, on the face of it, there was no way of distinguishing the good apples from the poisoned ones.

What do you do?

A) Continue to buy and sell the apples on the basis that only a very small percentage of them are likely to be poisoned?

or

B) Stop importing dem apples immediately until the suppliers can guarantee them to be poison-free?

If you want to stay in business, it's a no-brainer if you ask me.

Posted by: Rab at April 13, 2008 8:12 AM

I live in the UK and "ordinary people" are increasingly aware of the danger that faces them and society.

You get the feeling it's all building up to something.

People are no longer taken in by the claim that it is "the religion of peace." If you claimed that in the pub you'd be laughed out of the bar.

Posted by: Big Luke at April 13, 2008 8:19 AM

They're only doing this because the Kuffar are resisting to accept Islam. If the Brits would all revert there would be peace....

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 13, 2008 8:33 AM

And then there's this from an AP article on MSNBC.msn.com, dated Nov 10, 2006:

"British authorities are tracking almost 30 high-priority terrorist plots involving 200 networks and 1,600 suspects, the head of Britain’s domestic spy agency said, adding that many of those under surveillance are homegrown terrorists plotting suicide attacks and other mass-casualty bombings."

So here we are a year and a half later, still tracking 30 plots, 200 networks, and the number of "suspects" has increased. Doesn't sound like much progress on our part.

I think it's like juggling. If you keep adding things, sooner or later you are going to start dropping some. Or you might sneeze and drop them all...

What's the point in all the "tracking" if you aren't going to do something?

Article link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15646571/

Posted by: cumulusnine at April 13, 2008 8:36 AM

"BRITISH police and security agencies are monitoring 30 terrorism plots, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said in extracts of a newspaper interview released today. "We now face a threat level that is severe. It's not getting any less, it's actually growing,'' she said in an interview to be published tomorrow in News of the World.
"We task the police and the security agencies with protecting us ... There are 22,000 individuals they are monitoring. There are 200 networks. There are 30 active plots,'' she said...."
-- from the article above

"And then there's this from an AP article on MSNBC.msn.com, dated Nov 10, 2006:

'British authorities are tracking almost 30 high-priority terrorist plots involving 200 networks and 1,600 suspects, the head of Britain’s domestic spy agency said, adding that many of those under surveillance are homegrown terrorists plotting suicide attacks and other mass-casualty bombings.'"
-- from a posting above

So in less than two years, the number of those who are called suspects has risen from 1,600 to 22,000. And what will it be in a year, or two? 50,000? 100,000:? How many police will it take to monitor these people? How many lawyers, how many judges to sentence them? How many man-hours, how much money, how many billions of pounds spent, by non-Muslims, to monitor Muslims, who were foolishly allowed in, all over the Western world?

The most horrifying statement in "Fitna" is not any particular menacing and bloodthirsty quote from the Qur'an. Those quotes, and hundreds more like them from Qur'an and Hadith, most visitors to this site already knew about.

No, the most horrifying fact was this: that it 1960 there were 1,500 Muslims in the Netherlands. And in 2004 there were 800,000 (official figures), and today there are more than a million.

It is demographic conquest from within. This means of conquering from within has happened before in Muslim history -- after all, how did very small numbers of Arabs conquer large swathes of territory, and then proceed to both islamize and then arabize large areas of the Middle East and North Africa, if not by a combination of Da'wa (usually based on the desire of non-Muslims to join the winner, or to escape the humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity of the dhimmi status), and demographic conquest?

This demographic conquest has been discused for more than 30 years, quite openly in the Arab and Muslim world. In 1974 it was the ruler of Algeria, Boumedienne, at the U.N. -- hardly the place to hide things -- who spoke of how the Arabs and Muslims would conquer Europe "in the wombs" of the Muslim women having 10, 11, 12, 15 children apiece.

But who could have foreseen that all over Europe Muslim immigrants would not only pour in, but take advantage, and then some, of every possible benefit that generous Infidels could and did provide, paid for by other Infidels, and meant to be received by fellow members of that Infidel nation-state who were part of that national community, and loyal to it, but have been taken over, and exploited to the fullest, by Muslim immigrants who, to the extent that they remain true to Islam, cannot conceivably offer loyalty to any Infidel nation-state, its people, or the legal and political institutions of that state which the Shari'a, in letter and in spirit, flatly contradicts.

How much, do you think, are the British spending to monitor these Muslims?

Will the cost rise? Of course it will. It wil go up as the number of Muslims steadily rises. You can pretend otherwise. You can prate all you want about "reform" but you still must explain how it is that the immutable and literal Word of God is to be "reformed," changed, edited, red-pencilled, and how, furthermore, more than a billion quite primitive people -- made mentally primitive by the habit of mental submission that Islam encourages -- will accept such changes to the Qur'an, or the Hadith (in their accepted rankings of autheniticity), or to the details of Muhammad's life recorded in the Sira, or even to the figure of Muhammad, as uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, the Perfect Man? How many Muslims would accept anything like the view of Muhammad that the words and acts attributed to him would cause any sane and well-informed non-Muslim to adopt?

The "integraton" of Muslims is a pipe dream. A few may fall away. A few may convert. These will, always and everywhere, be the morally and intellectually superior souls. But what of the rest, the rest having gigantic families, paid for by the Infidel-financed suicidal generosity?

The Western world has to halt all Muslim immigration, expel all Muslims who have not managed to acquire citizenship (those willing to jettison, publicly, Islam may -- if they are carefully vetted, be allowed to apply to remain.), and then make life not easy but difficult for those remaining, so that many will leave voluntarily. Simply cutting off the malign source of funds for mosques and madrasas and propaganda -- Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states -- would do much to weaken support for Muslims, at least by ending the work of Western hirelings,and forcing Muslims in the West to pay for their own mosques and madrasas, rather than be supported, as they now are, with money from foreign Muslims, eager to help solidify and spread the presence of Islam in the Bilad al-kufr, the lands of the Infidels.

Demography is destiny.

Posted by: Hugh at April 13, 2008 9:07 AM

Hugh,

Agreed. demography is destiny, but there is no reversing the trend. Europe is being swallowed alive by the Islamic horde because the "natives" have aborted/contracepted themselves to the point of extinction and have had to import laborers, mostly Muslim, by the millions, and they in turn have bred millions more. That is the hard truth of it.

The US is afflicted with the same "culture of death" mentality that has virtually destroyed the fundations of western civilization in Europe, but it, fortunately, has been able to exploit the Mexican/Central American -Roman Catholic generally- labor pool. Thank God for the Conquistadores, eh? Romans 8:28

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 9:43 AM

According to this BBC story, it is 2000 - not 22,000 being watched.

While still 2000 too many, it seems a lot less absurd than 22,000...

Posted by: Henrik at April 13, 2008 9:53 AM

I would worry less if UK was CAPABLE of monitoring 22,000 Jihadists. The arithmetic shows there are that many and more.

Thirty active plots they know about. And perhaps (is it conceivable?) that one other active plot (a dirty bomb in The City? Mass poisoning?) that they know nothing about.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at April 13, 2008 10:01 AM

CORRECTED-Smith says monitoring 30 U.K. terrorism plots - Reuters
(Corrects figure in third paragraph)
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080413/tpl-uk-britain-security-81f3b62.html

Original news story at:
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/1304_jacqui_smith.shtml

Posted by: jeffreyimm at April 13, 2008 10:05 AM

"Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said in extracts of a newspaper interview released today. "We now face a threat level that is severe. It's not getting any less, it's actually growing,'' she said in an interview to be published tomorrow in News of the World."

That's right, Ms, Secrety, It's not getting any less, it's actually growing. So what is Britain going to do about it, wait until it can't be managed anymore, wait until British cities have no-go zones, where Imams make the rules, and where British law can't penetrate?

Indeed it is growing. If it weren't for the willful blindness of Britains political, religious and social leaders, you could have seen that long ago.

So please, what is your plan, national suicide?

Posted by: rational at April 13, 2008 10:38 AM

"Agreed. demography is destiny, but there is no reversing the trend."
-- from a posting above

Why this fatalism? Why can't the measures I suggested be taken by the countries of Western Europe?

And what about the Benes Decree, that I have mentioned, have discussed, so often at this site? Google "Benes Decree" and "Hugh Fitzgerald" for more.

If a country of seven million managed to expel, out of concern for its future security, three million people -- the ethnic Germans known as Sudeteners --without any criticism within the country, nor with any without -- as Czechoslovakia did in 1946, surely the countries of Western Europe, whose security problem because of Muslims having settled, and reproducing far beyond the rate of non-Muslims, in those countries, is far graver than that which the Sudeteners posed to Czechs in 1946, when Germany had been pulverized?

Posted by: Hugh at April 13, 2008 10:39 AM

At what point does the writing on the wall become visible?

The enemy is there and he is growing everyday, but you don't see him. He's not swarming onto the beaches of Portsmouth,Brighton,or Folkstone.He's not scaling the Cliffs of Dover. There is no uniformed army carrying a Crescent Flag, and rumbling across the country side in tanks, there are no destroyers, or Battleships approaching the Shore lines. But make no mistake about it, he is there and he is growing right under your nose. He did not come at you as an obvious threat because you actually invited him into your house because you did not know him, or understand him. He has not been easily revealed to you because you thought he was just like anyone else that was invited into your country. Like Mein Kampf, you failed to read it before it was to late, and you are failing to read the Quran as well before it is to late. You could quite easily point to the more obvious History of Islamic quests than you could have of Nazi Germany, but you have not. This stealth war is being fought in your neighborhoods every hour of every day and you are loosing but you still don't know it because you must see it to believe it. This why stealth is so effective. So what are you going to do before you are completely overrun? It appears not much as a once proud British people you will eventually go the way the French did during World War II. Will America come to your rescue? No they won't because they are to politically correct, and poisoned by the warped perversion of multiculturalism as you are, they are still apologizing for internment camps of Japanese Americans during WWII..

Posted by: Mackie at April 13, 2008 10:41 AM

Imagine future historians attributing the influence of the New York and Hollywood media outlets as the knife that actually got close enough to begin cutting into the jugular of the Islamist dinosaur.

A less than ten minute Fitna film. The context of the message is detached from the common everyday person. Most will watch it and then go on and do something else, the ideas of the film fade away after a month or two.

And a powerful Western resource of ours is not being used. The Chinese and Goebbels knew how powerful it is and can be. No one inside Western political circles obviously believes so.

Islamist thought comes from an idiotic book. A single book is responsible for the thoughts behind terrorist acts. Just words put together inside a freakin' dopey book generate those thoughts into action!

I want to begin another paragraph of thought and use the words coward and fairies, sissies and weenie-men and weenie-women, using these words in reference to the obviously too-wealthy-to-be-bothered Hollywood & New York media crowd ..., but after five minutes of thinking, I'll just sound silly, and I gotta go do something else now ...

Posted by: k24anson at April 13, 2008 10:41 AM

Please folks, lets calm down somewhat. These claims of imminent death and destruction will continue to be given. Why? Because the government must have its population living in fear! How else can they deprive the rest of us of our civil rights?

For all their grandiose schemes, the al-Quaeda wannabees have managed to kill but a tiny fraction of those that the Catholic IRA managed to kill in its war with the British State. There again, we had the acquiescence from the religious hierarchy. Every dead IRA man had a Catholic church funeral complete with an IRA Honour Guard firing shots over the coffin. But we didn't respond to that threat with the wholesale loss of liberty that they are trying to impose now.

Now we have a proven inability to make bombs (see London clubland, or Glasgow Airport for proof), and anyone who has studied Chemistry up to A-level or beyond (OK, and who was paying attention) will understand that many of the current bomb recipes will not work. Just watch for details from the current trial.

I agree that Islam is a Nasty pseudo-religion. I wish to remove it from the British Isles (fat chance at present, though). But lets save being scared for when it is justified.

Equally though there is something else going on. I believe that the Islamists are a useful tool for something greater. They are being manipulated by something that is now being allowed to fulfill prophecy; the prophecy towards the end of Daniel, and the middle of Revelations.

Posted by: Jeff at April 13, 2008 10:41 AM

Jeff, between now and twenty years from now, the first nuclear, dirty bombed terrorist expression will one day do what to the weenie-men and weenie-women in Western governments?

Not true.

Posted by: k24anson at April 13, 2008 10:46 AM

Believe nothing this woman says or anything her Government say, the responsibility rests with them, a Muslim told me just yesterday that it was because of Political Correctness and their (Labour Government) denial that where he lives (which is almost an entirely Muslim enclave in the North of England) the Mullahs are spouting their hate and brainwashing teens and young men, oppressing the women and even telling Shopkeepers not to serve the "white or non-muslims" in the area.

Incidentally the shopkeepers told them to go to hell , so not only are this Government actively allowing Islamic hate preachers in, appeasing militants and giving terrorists comfort with the Human Rights Act and a generous benefit system they are even contributing to it by silencing those Muslims who want nothing to do with them and under the guise of political correctness leaving them to fight against the extremists alone.

Posted by: Captain Chaos at April 13, 2008 10:47 AM

"There are 22,000 individuals they are monitoring. There are 200 networks. There are 30 active plots,'' she said."

Those are the individuals that they've managed to discover. Those are the networks that have come under their radar. Those are the plots that they are following.

The numbers are probably not less.

But they could be higher.

Much higher.

Depending on the competence of the British police and security agencies.

Posted by: s at April 13, 2008 11:02 AM

"These claims of imminent death and destruction will continue to be given. Why? Because the government must have its population living in fear! How else can they deprive the rest of us of our civil rights?"
-- from a posting above

What "claims of immminent death and destruction"? The problem is that conquest through Da'wa and demography is slow-moving, and the boiling-a-frog approach, with the frog (the Infidels of the host nation) not quite realizing what is happening.

As for this dreamy idea that governments in the Western world are deliberately whiping up fear, in order "to deprive the rest of us of our civil rights" -- where does this nonsense come from? The people who would, if they could, "deprive the rest of us of our civil rights" are Muslims -- see what happens to free speech, to free exercise of (non-Muslim) religion, to freedom of thought, to freedom to conduct skeptical inquiries, to freedom of artistic expresion, under Islam, through 1350 years of Islamic history.

If anything, Western governments have been far too soothing, far too negligent, and far too reluctant to criticise Islam and Muslims inside the Infidel lands, for a number of reasons. One is the fear of giving offense to Muslims who, as we all know, are liable to react violently to all kinds of things. The second is the reluctance to admit, even obliquely, that a terrible mistake has been made by the political and media elites, all over the countries of Western Europe (and to a much lesser extent, in North America), by allowing in Muslim immigrants without considering what Islam,the Total Belief-System of Islam, is all about, and what the arrival of large numbers of Muslims necessarily portends for Infidels, and their legal and political instiutions. And the third reason for the reluctance is that Western governing elites have no idea how to react, or what to do. So instead of beginning to talk -- and one has to start talking about, start considering - the most obvious minimum measures of self-defense, the kind of things put up here repeatedly, they avoid the issue, and keep talking about "Muslim integration" and "government funding for mosques" to "deprive the extremists of a role." It is Islam itself that is extreme. It is Islam itself that will keep coming back, and defy all Infidel efforts to fund "reforming" projects or, by teaching Muslims the langugage and culture and laws of the particular Infidel country they happen to be in, to believe, to hope, to wish, to vainly wish, that this will somehow make Muslims forget, and forget forever, and pass on that forgetfulness to their large families, what Islam teaches, what Islam is all about.

It's absurd.

Posted by: Hugh at April 13, 2008 11:07 AM

Following on what Captain Chaos says above - please also keep in mind that this NuLab Government is sprouting these numbers about plots etc in order to have the public (like many here, alas) clamouring to 'keep us safe' - and introduce the law which will allow the police to hold suspects for 42 (that is: forty-two!) days before they need to present their case to a judge.
Currently, this time stands at 28 days, the longest in any Western Country.

That is the only reason these numbers are bruited about, again.
The shameful fact is that this selfsame government, which is curtailing all our civil rights, is at the same time bending over backwards to 'respect' the human rights of muslim hatemongers and jihad-inciters.
Just remember that this Imam (I refuse to remember his name!) cannot be sent back to Jordan, because he might be tortured there, and not get a 'fair trial' ...
So this government allows him to stay here, collect £ 1.000 (that is: one thousand Pound Sterling!) a week in benefits for his family, even though he is not even a British subject - and allows him to propagate even more terrorist plots.

Something is indeed not right in the UK - but its not the number of terrorists, its the way this government is dealing with this problem!
We don't need a law to keep suspects in jail for 42 days before they can see a judge - we need them all extradited, pronto, and sod their 'human' rights!

(I'm really angry about this!)

Posted by: Calon Lan at April 13, 2008 11:08 AM

Jeff,
There is much more to fear of the muslim invasion than "imminent death and destruction," as you put it. Focusing on that, and failed early attempts at bomb detonations, results in a failure to see what is in plain sight. (Tell us about the successful bombing of the tube in London. And the bus. Nothing to fear?)

Bombs aside, how about the systematic murder of or death threats to anyone who doesn't agree with them (Theo Van Gogh, Hirsi Ali. Salmon Rushdie, simple cartoonists, etc.) How about the increased rapes of women who don't wear the hijab or veil? How about the burning of thousands of cars in France by "disaffected youths." How about neighborhoods that have been completely transformed by Muslims into no-go areas where the police, fire and other emergency responders are afraid to go and are often attacked when they arrive? How about the establishment of hate-preaching mosques across Europe and in the United States, the funding of terrorism around the world by Muslim "charities"?

Do you not think that as the Muslim population continues to increase in the west that your daughters and granddaughters will not be subject to intimidation because they to not cover in public?

Do you want to see droves of people walking around your city covered from head to toe like every day is halloween?

Get rid of the Islamists and get rid of the assault on our rights to freedom of speech.

Posted by: cumulusnine at April 13, 2008 11:15 AM

Let's see--we kuffar are apes, pigs, rats, dogs... And now frogs. Now, if I didn't have such a high boiling point, I'd be mightily offended.

Posted by: John C at April 13, 2008 11:26 AM

Hugh,

The Czechs kicking out the Sudeten Germans, who had inhabited the region since at least the 12th century, was a delayed consequence of the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire after WWI. It was unjust, and would never pass muster today.

For argument's sake, if the countries of western Europe were to do as you suggest and expel all Muslim emigre's back to their countries of origin as a matter of national security, along with their millions and millions of kids, their economies would probably collapse, much as the US economy would collapse if it rounded up and deported the 10 million+ illegals who are now almost inextricably woven into the US economy.

Demography is destiny, as you write, but deportation isn't the answer. Conversion to Christianity is the answer that I and lots of other folks, including Pope Benedict XVI, propose. It has worked before. It can work again.

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 11:36 AM

I didn't quite get my point across to most, by the looks of the comments above. The one exception is Calon, who has also seen that the statements by the Home Secretary are not addressing Islamism at all. She is addressing an agenda that the Home Office have had for quite some time: to turn the UK into a surveillance Police State. And they will stop at nothing to do it.

Equally, as many have pointed out, the government refuse to face reality and address the true problem. But then the UK is not alone in that, our Nation has most of Europe and North America keeping us company.

Of course something must be done about Islam. There will be no true peace until the problems that Islam brings in its wake are resolved. But in this pronouncement, Islam is being used by the Home Secretary to justify further repression contrary to the general law of the land. It is touted as being "just for terrorist issues" but this government have serious form on function creep. The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act was passed on the basis that its powers would be used for the prevention and detection of serious and terrorist crime. NOW we see covert surveillance (one of the regulated powers) used by a local council to determine whether a 3 year old actually lives within the catchment area of the school that the parents want their child to attend!

This government is just using Islam to further their own ends. Of course we have a battle to fight, and sooner than I ever wanted it to be. But for goodness sake, lets choose the right battle. And politicians spouting fear and encouraging a state of fearfulness are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

Posted by: Jeff at April 13, 2008 11:42 AM

Hugh has it absolutely right...the burden to law enforcement is directly correlative to the numbers of immigrants.

Posted by: Cornelius at April 13, 2008 11:46 AM

Please folks, lets calm down somewhat. These claims of imminent death and destruction will continue to be given. Why? Because the government must have its population living in fear! How else can they deprive the rest of us of our civil rights?

Jeff above:

Who used the term imminent? Yes and the commenter above tows the left leaning liberal mind set that believes it is all a conspiracy to take our civil rights away and what other mysterious purpose might they be doing this beyond trying to deal with the sophisticated technology that is at hand.

Oh you say; it is not necessary to listen for enemy plots because it is all trumped up by the US Government, or the British, never mind what led to 9-11 because we were not paying attention carefully, are agencies were not talking to each other. The blind were leading the blind. Yes and of course the FBI and Homeland security is making it all up. What would you have us do, ignore it? We cracked radio codes by the Nazis, we cracked codes by the Japanese in WWII that saved thousands of lives.

My God how the fools do rush in!

Posted by: Mackie at April 13, 2008 11:49 AM

"The Czechs kicking out the Sudeten Germans, who had inhabited the region since at least the 12th century, was a delayed consequence of the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian empire after WWI. It was unjust, and would never pass muster today.
-- from a posting above

Many of the Sudeten Germans, beginning with Henlein himself, were perfectly willing to be used by Hitler in his denunications of the Czechs, and at a time when the Czechs, their fortifications bristling along the Vistula, could indeed have helped slow down German advances elswhere, were forced to surrender so that the "legitimate rights of the Sudeteners" and a
"comprehensive and lasting peace" (the phrase, used by Lord Runciman of the ill-fated Runciman Mission, has turned up to be used in later, different contexts), and furthermore, during the war, largely collaborated with the invading German soldiers (and received, like all populations of Volksdeutsche, not the slim rations that the non-German population received, but what the German soldiers received).

When Benes and Masaryk, supported by the entire population of Czechs (and many Slovaks) decided that the Germans, that Germany itself, would have to take in people who spoke the same language, had the same culture, identified with the same things, as those Germans, and who had given evidence that their loyalty was not to fellow citizens of non-German origin, nor to the state of Czechoslovakia, that decision -- one of the several Benes Decrees -- was not criticized either by a single Czech leader, or by any other leaders in the Western world. Not by Churchill, De Gaulle, De Gasperi, Truman, none of them. And what's more, contrary to your assertion, it has not been criticised since, except in minor ways, as when Vaclav Havel, on a trip to Austria, did admit that the "execution" of the Benes Decree could have been better (and it could have been, no doubt about it).

But the principle remains clear and justifiable: if a distinct population gives evidence that it will not, in wartime, in a state of war (and Islam inculcates the notion that a permanent state of war exists between Muslims and all Infidels who continue to put obstacles in the path of the spread, and dominance, of Islam) identify with the nation-state in question, that it will, by a majority, take the side of that nation-state's enemies, then the people of that nation-state have a perfect right to consider measures to lessen the ability of that clearly-defined population, owing its loyalty to, in the case of many (not all, but many) the Sudeten Germans, the German regime of Adolf Hitler, and in the case of many (not all, but many) Muslims, owing their sole loyalty to Islam and to the Umma, the world-wide Community of Believers.

I do not see any way of avoiding this matter, of being clear-sighted about it, and not sentimental. And when you say that "this kind of thing can't happen today" I ask: why? Bomfoggery? Sentimentalism?

In the next few decades a great many massive changes will take place in the world, and the behavior that one thinks is permanent will be shown, when people are threatened by those changes, not to be so. That includes the fantastic disruptions to be caused by anthropogenic global warming. It also includds the realization of the meaning, and menace, of Islam to Infidels, to their political and legal institutions, to their social arrangements, to their everything. The Western world will not go quietly. And if it acts intelligently in time, it will not go at all, and if it acts very fast, will spare non-Muslims, and Muslims, the kind of violence that will otherwise be hard to avoid.

Posted by: Hugh at April 13, 2008 12:03 PM

According to this BBC story, it is 2000 - not 22,000 being watched.
While still 2000 too many, it seems a lot less absurd than 22,000...

Posted by: Henrik

The Australian may have made a fateful typo, and the numbers may in fact be much larger than BBC's 2000, where 22,000 is more true to life. That will take a lot of police work, and crowded prisons, all paid for by Infidels. Boot them out, for God's sake.

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at April 13, 2008 12:22 PM

Calon was Abu Qatada

One of the world's most dangerous terror suspects was last night preparing for a life on benefits in Britain after judges ruled that his deportation would breach human rights law.

Abu Qatada, dubbed Osama Bin Laden's "truly dangerous" ambassador in Europe, could be released from jail within months following the Court of Appeal verdict.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=558392&in_page_id=1770

But the stupidity of this Government knows no bounds

THE Royal Navy, once the scourge of brigands on the high seas, has been told by the Foreign Office not to detain pirates because doing so may breach their human rights.

Warships patrolling pirate-infested waters, such as those off Somalia, have been warned that there is also a risk that captured pirates could claim asylum in Britain.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3736239.ece

Posted by: Captain Chaos at April 13, 2008 12:50 PM

We must reject various deeply held notions which hamper our resistance to the Jihad of the invader. One of those notions is the idea that our opinions or our actions are to blame in any great measure for Islamic Jihad.

The author of the article cynically attempts to score points for his antiwar agenda by stressing a link between the decision by the UK to join the US in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the sinister uptick in Muslim plots now being monitored. Robert then suggests his own link with the UK decision to appease Muslims. Both of these linkages may in fact be partially true, but both affix different levels of blame for Islamic Jihad, not on Muslims where it predominantly blongs, but on we "infidels" for making putative mistakes. These deeply held notions would have us believe that our behavior and not Islam itself is most responsible for animating Muslims to wage war! This is a grave distortion.

Islam is uniquely designed to seek all kinds of pretexts to wage Jihad. With millions of Muslims residing in the West, it was only a matter of time before some audacious Muslim lit the fuse and announced the hot Jihad in the West. That audacious demon was bin Laden on 9/11.

Muslims cannot be managed if they remain in the West. Muslims cannot be managed in any way we'd find acceptable. If they remain in the West and they remain Muslim their Jihad will eventually destroy the nature of our society. The brutal methods of containment we'll be forced to employ to protect ourselves and inhibit their Jihad will poison us over time.

The interjection of millions of Muslims into the West will perpetually remain a destabilizing and corrosive force. And we must stop affixing any significant portion of blame for their Jihad war to spread Islam in our dominion without blaming Muslims first and foremost for the violent poisonousness of their vile religion of Islam. Let's not cede Muslims anything in the war they're waging against us by blaming ourselves, even partially, for their treasonous decision to infiltrate, and then launch war to annihilate.

Posted by: jsla at April 13, 2008 12:51 PM

"Because we now understand the scale of what is being plotted...''.

Now? NOW we understand ? Well, hello!
Over the years Labour has made itself not simply The Party of Immigration, but more specifically The Part of Islam.
Labour's policies have radically changed Britain, from a relatively homogenous and consensus society to one which is increasingly fragmented and lacking in common values (and the Conservatives are almost equally guilty).
By the mid-1980's, it was very clear that we were on the road to increasing division and terror, and the suggestion that the government is only now becoming aware of how bad the situation is seems to me to be utterly dishonest.
And whatever Smith says, I am sure that 22,000 individuals is much closer to the truth than 2,000 individuals.

Posted by: M Al-Content at April 13, 2008 12:56 PM

Britain, and every country that isn't already an islamic state, is facing a carefully planned global insurgency that is going to be much harder to defeat than the USSR in the Cold War. During the Cold War we had problems with over-committed converts (like Kim Philby, the Bader-Meinhoff gang etc), fellow travellers, and an intellectual elite that was largely in denial about the threat being faced but at least we didn't have the demographic crisis facing us now. We didn't have second or third generation Russians or Ukrainians setting up their own local soviet committees planning sabotage against the British state to help Stalin's or Brezhnev's aims.
The British (and other Western governments) need to relearn lessons from Malaya. Two simple quotes to start with:
1. “The first reaction to guerilla warfare must be to protect and control the population."
Brigadier Richard L. Clutterbuck, The Long, Long War: Counterinsurgency in Malaya and Vietnam.
The ramifications of this need to be applied on a global basis.
2. "What the peasant wants to know is: does the government mean to win the war? Because if not, he will have to support the insurgent.”
Sir Robert Thompson, Defeating Communist Insurgency: The Lessons of Malaya and Vietnam.
Does anyone think the British (or most other Western governments) even know who or what they are really fighting?

Compare the current government inability to clearly articulate what they plan to do with Churchill:
"You ask what is our policy. I will say, it is to wage war with all our might, with all the strength that God can give us, to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime.

"You ask what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory however long and hard the road may be. For without victory there is no survival."
—First speech as Prime Minister, House of Commons, 13 May 1940.

And yet, in the last few years, studying Churchill has been dropped as a compulsory part of history in British schools. Woe Brittanica.

Posted by: veil416 at April 13, 2008 1:00 PM

jsla.....the point being that there are many Muslims (and I know I happen to be from the infamous Dewsbury) who want to go out and be normal, do the lottery put a bet on the horses have the odd drink, the girls don't want to be covered up in veils (and a lot of them do all these things) but Labour and the ignorant Politically Correct have strangled any voices either in or out of the Muslim community from telling these radicals to "get lost".

The Labour Party bought the Muslim vote, took money and turned a blind eye to where it was coming from (Saudi) and never took firm action against the Preachers of Hate letting the radicals push their political agenda and then when it became troublesome they started to turn on them leaving the Radicals to say "only we will stick up for you".

Posted by: Captain Chaos at April 13, 2008 1:07 PM

I'm gonna quote this contribution by Mackie at length:

"Who used the term imminent? Yes and the commenter above tows the left leaning liberal mind set that believes it is all a conspiracy to take our civil rights away and what other mysterious purpose might they be doing this beyond trying to deal with the sophisticated technology that is at hand."

Its been in the public debate here in the UK since well over a year that the Government wants the law to allow police to detain suspects for 42 (forty-two) days before they are arraigned by a judge.
Now do you really think that protesting against this is due to having a left-liberal mindset?
AFAIK in other Western countries suspects must be arraigned within 48 hours, that is two days.
Clamouring for this law, using 'horror' information about how many terrorists there are (but of course we can't be told where they are or who they are, because its all secret ...) is now righteous?

I think you are getting something quite mixed up here: its the bona-fide, dyed-in-the-wool lefties who like nothing betetr than open-ened laws which would curtail free citizens from using their rights.
Together with the law against 'hate-speak' it does not take a huge leap of the imagination to see a RC priest jailed for 42 days because he has spoken out against homosexuals.

Is that the society we now need to have, because the government refuses to do its duty and send all those Muslims to the places they came from - because of their, the muslims, 'human rights'?
Can you not see that such scare-mongering, as the British Home secretary is doing, is not achieving anything in regard to fighting muslim jihadists?

There would be a number of other laws which should and could be implemented to do this - forcing imams to preach in English only would be a start, refusing to pay for muslim polygamy would be another ... the list is endless ...

Mackie then says:
"Oh you say; it is not necessary to listen for enemy plots because it is all trumped up by the US Government, or the British, never mind what led to 9-11 because we were not paying attention carefully, are agencies were not talking to each other. The blind were leading the blind. Yes and of course the FBI and Homeland security is making it all up. What would you have us do, ignore it? We cracked radio codes by the Nazis, we cracked codes by the Japanese in WWII that saved thousands of lives.

My God how the fools do rush in!"

Its not about 'the government makes it all up' - its a question of the government being too stupid and too penny-pinching on the one hand to use the laws, all the laws, they already have, to their fullest extent, and pay for more policemen, special police and MI5 agents.

Its a question of the government to stop being blind to the rights of their own citizens and stop accomodating muslims because of their 'religion', or because of 'diversity' and 'multiculturalism'.

Its a question of the government at all levels to stop the creeping introduction of Sharia into the lives of ordinary Britons, and of deporting all those who want to have an islamic British republic, because that does come under treason, irrespective of their 'human rights'.

Thats what it is about - and you can be certain of one thing, Mackie - if that law goes through, we may not even be allowed to write here, because its inciting hatred against muslims, innit - so thats a hate crime, and you can go to jail for 42 days until the police find out that they erred.

What will your life be like after those 42 days?
Will you still have a job? Your house?

I wish our friends in the USA would understand that the islamic jihad is unwittingly protected and favoured by our own government, and that the call for such laws makes it more difficult for any of us who are trying to stand up against it.

So please don't just read the headlines and accuse us of being lefties who don't know whats going on on the one hand, or accuse us of doing nothing and letting it all slip on the other.
We do know what is happening, and we know whereof we speak when we draw your attention to the facts not reported in the MSM.
How would you feel when your government lies to you repeatedly and takes away your civil liberties to 'protect' you, thus protecting your enemies?

Posted by: Calon Lan at April 13, 2008 1:15 PM

veil416, good post !

Posted by: M Al-Content at April 13, 2008 1:35 PM

Some of the commenters since my previous post must surely be pining for a state something like East Germany under Soviet occupation. For that is what the UK government appear to be trying to impose on the UK. One former minister (the permatanned one) had a criminal conviction for illegal acts while protesting about the South African habit of holding people for 90 days before charge. It was legal, but he didn't like it. Now, until he was forced out for lying about funding ("poor memory", my [expletive deleted]), he was part of an executive that wished to impose the same rules on the UK. The current campaign for 42 days is only what they think they can get away with at the moment. They will be back for more as the initial claim was for 90 days. It really is amazing how these reports and claims of imminent chaos (even if imminent isn't said, it is the understood meaning - we the government have got to act quickly if you want to be "protected") come out just before MPs are due to debate a further erosion of the rights of the subject. Didn't Benjamin Franklin comment on things like this: "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

Islam does not breed/educate competents. Just have a look at how dysfunctional is every Muslim nation state. We know that more Muslims are killed by their co-religionists every year than by the Kuffar. Many of their plots in the UK are so fanciful that really one must doubt the sanity of the credulous Police who act on the "intelligence". The Islamists are still incapable of wreaking the carnage that the IRA were doing as routine. But then we had the USA providing a safe haven for the terrorists, and allowing the (US tax deductible!) raising of funds (Noraid if you have forgotten). The Islamists do however make up for their relative lack of terrorism skills in the fanaticism department.

The point I was trying to get across in my first post was that there is something even bigger, even more ghastly than the militant Islam that we rightly gather here to vilify. It needs no techniques of jihad to win battles, no need for the "Migrate, Multiply and Manipulate" stratagem of the "Peaceful Jihad". It needs none of those things, because it is here already. Our Government is a fully signed up member of it. Europe. And so is yours. The North American Union is coming to a place near you shortly. And the Association of South East Asia has designs ... oh I can't face going on. Please just read Daniel 7: 15 - 28 and Daniel 11: 21 - 45. And then worry about the United Nations.

Islam is part of the problem. It just isn't the whole problem. And I don't want to be around when the Islamists realise that they have been used as a pawn in another's political game.

Posted by: Jeff at April 13, 2008 1:37 PM

All this "Anti-Islamic" activity!

All this "Misunderstanding" of Islam the "Religion of Peace".

What did we in the Non-islamic world do to make these people hate us so much??

Posted by: alexon at April 13, 2008 1:51 PM

Jeff..the saving grace here is that the leadership of UK (and Europe) are buffoons of the highest order in everything they touch.

Cowardly in dealing with Islamic terrorism, cowardly in dealing with any regime of a similar standing, still in denial over why their wonderful vision of a Marxist utopia alludes them, I wouldn't want to be them when the first Gay, Lesbian and Transgender group tell the Muslims they want to hire the Madrassah for a Gay Pride event and find out that Labour Party legislation means they have to let them...should be fun, Militant Islam versus Militant Gay Lobby.

Posted by: Captain Chaos at April 13, 2008 1:54 PM

Calon Lan:

There is no accusation of the British doing nothing, for the most part my focus lends itself to an accusation of Government conspiracies to undermine your rights of privacy by projecting fear into the equation as brought up by commenter Jeff.

There are many fronts to address in the fight against Islamofascism and yes we read the hypocrisy of the British Government as they try to balance rights against threats from the enemy within. No doubt the challenges of MI 5 are a constant struggle to gather information while protecting the human rights of individuals.

America's Patriot Act has been more scrutinized then Roe ZVs. Wade in our courts, and in our congress for fear of trampling on our first, and fourth amendment rights.

We have outspoken Muslims in this country who have called for death and destruction (See Islam Thinkers of Jackson Heights, New York) openly on our city streets. We have doubled our FBI since 9-11, we have upgraded the FISA Courts Powers in this country since 9-11. Our Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was put into place back in 1979 by the then Jimmy Carter White House. The original FISA Act was amended to include foreign and domestic terrorism Warrants and it gave the President warrantless powers for up to year in the case of an emergency ( this is strongly challenged by congress).

In 2004, FISA was amended to include a "lone wolf" provision.. A "lone wolf" is a non-US person who engages in or prepares for international terrorism. The provision amended the definition of "foreign power" to permit the FISA courts to issue surveillance and physical search orders without having to find a connection between the "lone wolf" and a foreign government or terrorist group.

On Jihadwatch we have continuously addressed the the ignorance displayed by our government when it comes to CAIR, the Congress of American Islamic Relations, we have addressed the intrusive threats made by the 600 plus chapters of the MSA ( Muslim Students Associations) found on University Campuses which is an out crop of the Muslim Brotherhood, We have addressed the influence of one Hesham Islam who has the ear of the 2nd highest voice in the Pentagon.

Yes we see the failings of our own government as well to address the intellectual threat within America.

Posted by: Mackie at April 13, 2008 2:23 PM

"There are 22,000 individuals they are monitoring. There are 200 networks. There are 30 active plots."

In other words, we're screwed, right?

Posted by: champ at April 13, 2008 2:43 PM

Hugh,

Czechoslovakia was "invented" in 1918, so the thought that the Sudetenland "belonged" to the Czechs because that's where the Victorious War Gods decided to draw a borderline -that their heirs have chosen to honor for whatever reason- is kind of silly, don't you think? Then again, that's the way of the world, isn't it? The winners make the rules.

What do you want, Hugh? To take your idea and push it to its logical end, it appears to me that those "Muslims, owing their sole loyalty to Islam and to the Umma," must be forced to apostasize or be quarantined/deported/killed. Have I understood you correctly?

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 3:28 PM

Big Luke said:

"I live in the UK and "ordinary people" are increasingly aware of the danger that faces them and society.

You get the feeling it's all building up to something.

People are no longer taken in by the claim that it is "the religion of peace." If you claimed that in the pub you'd be laughed out of the bar."

Spot on.

I lurk at and occassionally post on a leftwing web site here in the UK and most of them get it and those that don't are riddiculed.

Mind you, it will definately get a lot worse before it gets better.

Posted by: g hadi hater at April 13, 2008 4:40 PM

Rab

very useful analogy. I came up with something similar a while ago:

"Suppose there is a factory manufacturing sweets. Some are – and remain - harmless. Some contain deadly poison and are very hard to detoxify. You cannot tell which is which, just by looking at them. Furthermore: others in the same batch are harmless at first but then suddenly and unpredictably become poisonous, and these also cannot be easily distinguished from the harmless ones and are capable – on contact with other harmless foodstuffs – of turning these poisonous (Australians: remember ‘David Hicks’ and the ‘jihad sheilas’- the phenomenon of the 'dangerous convert'?). Now: would you buy such sweets in large quantities and put them in the pantry?"

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 13, 2008 4:41 PM

Captain Chaos wrote:

"I wouldn't want to be them when the first Gay, Lesbian and Transgender group tell the Muslims they want to hire the Madrassah for a Gay Pride event and find out that Labour Party legislation means they have to let them...should be fun..."

The first shots is that particular battle have been fired.
http://painethepamphleteer.blogspot.com/2008/04/its-first.html
*********
Hugh wrote:

"In the next few decades a great many massive changes will take place in the world, and the behavior that one thinks is permanent will be shown, when people are threatened by those changes, not to be so. That includes the fantastic disruptions to be caused by anthropogenic global warming."

Say it ain't so, Hugh. Please tell me you haven't bought in to the biggest scientific hoax, ever.
Or
"Brother, can you spare a carbon credit"?
*********
I read a lot of concern here about gov't creating new powers with which to abuse us. That gov't is creating a paranoid environment.

London has (and D.C. shortly will) thousands of cameras on the streets and in public places and I have no problem with that as long as the cameras are not peering into my home. The cameras aren't going to capture images that could not otherwise be observed by anyone else. I know I'm on camera at and in my bank. I have worked in casinos and I know that they only enforce the rules.

I've been hearing as much since about 1970 and it had nothing to do with Islam.

Lex has it largely correct although I don't think anything is inevitable.

The cure is going to be found in painfully hard realisations. The reason for immigration as we now have it has its roots in the entitlement programs instituted in the 1st half of the last century when high-minded governments passed SS measures meant for the poorest among us. Little could they imagine that all institutions seek to expand or that as populations peaked and then started to shrink that they would be forced to look outside their borders for a workforce to prop up the Ponzi scheme.

I think it no coincidence that immigration controls were lowered the same year SS gave birth to Medicare and Medicaid--1965--under the auspices of that paragon of the workers' paradise, Ted Kennedy.

Japan, which doesn't look to immigration, has a swell plan--robots.

Posted by: turn at April 13, 2008 5:26 PM

Lex posted; Demography is destiny, as you write, but deportation isn't the answer. Conversion to Christianity is the answer that I and lots of other folks, including Pope Benedict XVI, propose.

I would propose a combination of the two. Conversion to Christianity, the foundation of Western civilisation, or deportation.

Posted by: DP111 at April 13, 2008 5:30 PM

IS ANYONE LISTENING? It's 2OOO, not 22000 suspects under surveillance. Let's keep our facts straight and leave the exaggeration and falsehoods to the Kos Kidz?

Posted by: Un:dhimmi at April 13, 2008 5:58 PM

As it happens the government is shortly to try (yet again) to get our dumbo MP to vote for an extension of the time jahadis can be detained without trial.

Might be a coincidence that this story has broken now.

Quite surprised that they still want to lock them up as the human rights crowd usually get them out if they promise to be good and then let them live on Social Security.

BTW The Sunday Times today reports that the Foreign Office has told the Royal Navy not to arrest Somali Pirates. As the punishment in the Islamic Republic of Somalia is amputation they cannot be returned there and would have to be sent to Britain as political refugees!!!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn’t get any crazier than this. Does it?

Posted by: Fred at April 13, 2008 7:40 PM

The number being monitored, as other posters have pointed out, is 2,000 not 22,000 . All of the news sources that originally quoted the outrageous latter figure have since amended their reports. Which means that these are the same figures that the Govt gave us a few months back.

The ridiculous "22,000" claim is either a media feeding frenzy on the back of a News of the Screws misprint (which is frightening, when you think of it) or else an almighty cock-up by the hapless Home Secretary and her "not fit for purpose" department.

Neither would be of any surprise to anyone in the UK, but given there was no mocking of Jacqui Smith in today's TV news, my guess leans towards the former.

g hadi hater:

"I lurk at and occassionally post on a leftwing web site here in the UK and most of them get it and those that don't are riddiculed."

Harry's Place, by any chance? Yes, they definitely get it.

Posted by: Matamoros at April 13, 2008 7:52 PM

Re: 2000 vs. 22000

Thanks -- I've passed that information along.

The Australian is still quoting a figure of 22000 in the original article. I wonder if they'll fix it there.

Posted by: MarisolJW at April 13, 2008 8:00 PM

"For argument's sake, if the countries of western Europe were to do as you suggest and expel all Muslim emigre's back to their countries of origin as a matter of national security, along with their millions and millions of kids, their economies would probably collapse, much as the US economy would collapse if it rounded up and deported the 10 million+ illegals who are now almost inextricably woven into the US economy."

Lex,
This is shortsighted. How well can you grow an economy when you are spending all your time monitoring Muslims who say openly that they seek your destruction and who have shown that these are not just empty threats? Will we have metal detectors and people taking their shoes off when they want to take the tube or the subway? Our societies depend on a common devotion to the public good and the good will of all people. If we have organized groups operating freely and killing and intimidating at will, what do you think the economy will look like after another ten years? In order to not appear as if we are profiling we have to search grandmothers and businessmen and men and women of good will who have no desire to harm their neighbors. These hard working people are being inconvenienced by the need to remain on guard against a group of people who have shown they have no right to live in a civilized society.

And as for the US, it's also a question of law and order. What laws matter and what laws don't? You say the illegals have been interwoven into the economy. Like the drug gangs? Well, we got our crops harvested and buildings built and our lawns mowed and our homes cleaned long before illegals started crossing our borders en masse. Maybe things will be difficult for a while but the employers who got by with hiring people illegally and who accepted SSNs of all zeroes will just have to find Americans who can do the job, and there are many of them. They will have to automate, as we were told four decades ago they would. It's why Americans were steered away from some occupations. We were told the jobs that our parents and grandparents had wouldn't be there for us. We did what they told us and over time these became jobs "Americans wouldn't do". It's a copout.

Posted by: PMK at April 13, 2008 9:11 PM

"Arabs and Muslims would conquer Europe "in the wombs" of the Muslim women having 10, 11, 12, 15 children apiece."

And who is paying for their upkeep? Who is paying the food bill for families of six or more children? Odds are it's European taxpayers. The jizya lives on.

Posted by: PMK at April 13, 2008 9:16 PM

From Jefferyimm's post he reference the original news item at News of the World.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/1304_jacqui_smith.shtml

Near the end of the article the UK Home Secretary Jacqui Smith stated the following:

"On Wednesday she will announce a new deal she struck with the Pakistani government on a visit last week. It will allow respected moderate Islamic clerics to be brought over from Pakistan to help British imams combat extremism in the Islamic communities."

This is very distrubing to a casual observer, sort of simular to putting out a fire with gasoline.

Posted by: Casual Observer at April 13, 2008 9:23 PM

PMK,

OK, deport all Muslims, ASAP, grandparents, parents and kids, because appearances can be deceiving, to any country that will take them, or not. Force the issue on so-called Muslim countries to receive "their own." Then hire ANY NON-MUSLIM to fill the millions of jobs suddenly vacant.

Posted by: Lex at April 13, 2008 11:50 PM

Hugh has forcefully stated what the indigenous peoples of Europe must do. If they do not act in their own defense, their culture will be wiped away and they will come under Islamic domination with the choices of covert to Islam, accept dhimmitude, or die.

Here is my proposed course of action for the indigenous peoples of Europe from a previous post:

"The critical mass that is needed now is for indigenous Europeans to take up Wilder's call and remove the present bunch of Trojan-horse muddle-headed elites from their governments. This should desirably be done by the ballot box but if that takes too long then by a Ukraine-style orange revolution in the streets. After these governments are replaced one-by-one, their new leaders should resign their countries from the traitorous EU until Brussels eventually becomes a shell of useless empty buildings.

Once the elite traitors both locally and in Brussels have lost their power, it will be time to launch the Tenth Crusade, basically ejecting all Islamo-fascist influence from Europe. Stop immigration, abolish hate-speech and similar laws, close mosques and madressas, deport foreign imans, disallow meetings of more than 5 Muslims, disallow public prayer by Muslims, disallow Muslim customs. fire all Muslims in government, remove all citizenship papers, passports, and privileges for Muslims, deny European citizenship to all Muslims born in Europe since 1970 (unless they Apostate and declare primary loyalty to the state and remain on probation for 10 years). Offer free passage to an Islamic country of choice to all who want to practice Islam.

The Tenth Crusade should be done by each country individually as soon as the population and new leaders are ready. As soon as one nation successfully executes the Tenth Crusade, others will follow. However, if two or three can act together that would be more effective psychologically on all Europeans.

The sooner Europeans recognize that the Tenth Crusade is the only option that will save them from totalitarian Islam, the better. Islam is reaching a critical mass state in some European countries already.

From what I read the average European is most likely more aware of the threat from Islam than the average American. Due to our Administration's inability or cowardice to conduct a war-propaganda campaign among our people and against our enemies, the American people and its Beltway kakistocracy are blissfully unaware of the serious degree of the Islamic threat. That goes for not only Bush et al but all three of the top remaining presidential candidates. Notice that the battle with Islam is hardly mentioned in the campaign speeches, although McCain seems to recognize the threat better than Osama and Clinton.

America will have to suffer another 9/11 to get the nation riled up on a WWII-style war-footing. Hopefully, whoever leads us then, will have the fortitude to launch the American Tenth Crusade without limit. However, if Europeans come to realize in time that they are next up on the gangplank to a caliphate tyranny and decide on counterattacking with the Tenth Crusade instead, that might wake up America in time without another 9/11. It might… I hope so. But this time Europe must save itself first without counting on American help. The American people are just not juiced up enough right now - they mostly have their heads in the sand.

But if the Europeans' Tenth Crusade fails and a caliphate is established that controls British and French (and Russian?) nukes, the stage will be set for Armageddon, and the supposed coming of the Twelfth Iman, according to the Shi'ite superstition. The Muslims would of course love to have a nuclear exchange between America and a caliphate Europe. Kill two of Allah's enemies at once!

As shown in Fitna, the clock is ticking."

Posted by: Jimmy Bones at April 14, 2008 2:16 AM

Can't we just hire priests to preach at the mosques?

Would be much better, I think.

Posted by: Henrik at April 14, 2008 3:49 AM

Lex posted: Demography is destiny, as you write, but deportation isn't the answer. Conversion to Christianity is the answer that I and lots of other folks, including Pope Benedict XVI, propose.

DP111 added: I would propose a combination of the two. Conversion to Christianity, the foundation of Western civilisation, or deportation.

Thanks, but no thanks chaps. Religion has done enough damage.

Let's try a bit of secular rationality for a few hundred years.

Posted by: Abu_Lahab at April 14, 2008 9:04 AM

The UK liberal political, intellectual, academic and media caucuses have worshipped and slavered at the altar of multiculturism for years and what they have sown the rest of us here are now reaping.

Posted by: DukeOrange at April 14, 2008 5:32 PM

I live in east London. This is the heart of islamic terrorism in the UK. Unless you count Bradford, Bolton, etc. etc.

The socialist multicultural agenda of our government has given these people the RIGHT to wage war against us. They are even protected by our "human rights" law. We PROTECT terrorists from the law.

What a bunch of cunts our government is.

They put to shame people like ayan hirsi ali and her ilk and promote the terrorists. The reason? Because they are cowards and traitors.

They can't see how wrong they are because it isn't there children who die.

Tony Blair even fled the country as soon as his tenure was up.

Cunts.

Posted by: DaveMate at April 14, 2008 8:07 PM