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The hope is that the largely Pakistani Muslim population in Britain would be more receptive to messages of moderation from Pakistani clerics.
But this is ultimately rather useless as long as "moderation" is such an ill-defined term. What specific ideas and practices do these "moderate" imams reject? Or will authorities settle for a sense of moderation as simply not being as bad as the next guy? And, lacking a definition of moderation, how will they screen the people they do bring into the country for this project?
"Imported moderate imams 'will counter fundamentalists'," by Philip Johnston for the Telegraph:
Moderate Muslim clerics are to be brought in from Pakistan in an effort to combat extremism in British mosques, the Home Secretary will announce today.
Jacqui Smith struck a deal on a recent visit to Pakistan under which respected imams could be invited to help British Muslims counter the fundamentalists.
The move is part of Government efforts to step up its so-called prevent agenda, which is aimed at tackling jihadi propaganda in Muslim communities.
In a newspaper interview at the weekend, Miss Smith said: "The vast majority of British Muslims have a Pakistani heritage. If we work with the Government there we can win the arguments.
"We need to do more to tackle those places where radicalisation is developing - in prisons, schools, higher education - so that people are getting the right messages about what it means to be a British Muslim.
"We will also work to ensure we identify vulnerable people being groomed for terror - in the same way we protect young people from being dragged into crime and abuse."
During her talks in Pakistan, the two governments pledged to work closely with communities in Britain to tackle the underlying causes of radicalisation. Ministers believe that preventing young Muslims being radicalised is a central part of their counter-terrorism strategy.
However, the Home Office has been criticised for allowing fundamentalist clerics into the country to preach and attend rallies.
Posted by Marisol at April 16, 2008 12:38 AM
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Wow. From Pakifreakinstan, no less. Maybe they will get the Saudis to write the sermons for them, just to be on the safe side.
Posted by: Jewel Atkins![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 16, 2008 12:58 AM
There are "moderate" imams in Pakistan? Why didn't they migrate to Britain to begin with?
Posted by: S Perry at April 16, 2008 12:58 AM
As long as they're all readin' from the same book...it doan mean squat.
at April 16, 2008 1:09 AM
Ms Smith is a complete idiot - chosen by Gordon Brown to do his bidding. Very few people had even heard of her until she was given her current job.
This silly woman is incompetant, as is the unelected Gordon Brown. Unrest is growimg in the UK! How much more can we endure?
Posted by: Sencit at April 16, 2008 1:22 AM
Sounds like the moderates are being driven out of Paki.
Posted by: alexon at April 16, 2008 1:38 AM
There are moderates in Islam? Where? From what I've heard and seen the only difference between the hardliner and the moderate is that the hardliner will kill you first, the moderate will first try to convert you, then if you reject him, they will kill you.
Posted by: Mystical Time Traveler at April 16, 2008 2:34 AM
Jacqui Smith and NuLabour are clueless! Shows the total bankruptcy of this Government.
One liner from an article in the Daily Mail last Monday about Labour and the UK PM:
"At the helm of Labour's Titanic, Gordon Brown is desperately rearranging the deckchairs."
Well Jacqui Smith that's another deckchair (an import of course) sorted. Iceberg ahead!
Posted by: James at April 16, 2008 2:42 AM
import "moderate" imams
By my reckoning that's a net increase in 'moderate' imams.
Posted by: western infidel at April 16, 2008 3:00 AM
What it means to be a British Muslim? It either means you want to replace the multidimensional British Constitution with Islamic religious law or you're a wimpy, clueless moderate Muslim who doesn't quite know why they're Muslim but are hedging their bets so that whether the radical Mohammedans prevail or somehow the Brits find it in themselves to save their nation from going Islamic you can then say you were with the winning side all along. Regardless, the importing of Pakistani clerics constitutes just one more example of pure theater of the absurd activity in contemporary Europe. Wake up, Britain. Soon like.
Posted by: Wellington at April 16, 2008 3:18 AM
So the cure is to bring in more Muslims, more alleged holy men and their families and eventually extended families?
At this very moment you have Muslim "holy men" in Pakistan thinking --- "How do I work this?"
The whole point of being a Muslim in England is exploit the infidel and get the maximum cash and welfare payments to support your burgeoning families. The whole point is take the maximum from the infidel and give back nil
Posted by: dennisw at April 16, 2008 3:32 AM
As long as they teach the Koran and the sunnah they'll be just right....
Ahh: don't forget the coffee-filter and the beards...
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 16, 2008 3:33 AM
I have a better idea, lets deport the moslems
Posted by: learnmore at April 16, 2008 3:36 AM
During her talks in Pakistan, the two governments pledged to work closely with communities in Britain to tackle the underlying causes of radicalisation.
Who defines what the "underlying causes" are? Do those causes include Britain having civil law that is not Sharia based? Do those causes have anything do with allowing infidels to have civil rights?
Ministers believe that preventing young Muslims being radicalised is a central part of their counter-terrorism strategy.
Wow, nothing gets past those guys.
at April 16, 2008 4:00 AM
This is an act of complete desperation by a government and politicians (Conservatives I doubt would be much different).
They quite obviously do not realise the threat that this country and others are under.
To scared to take the hard decisions, such as passing legislation to:
Strip an individual of citizenship.
Expulsion of individuals and family groups.
Withdrawal from EC Human Rights Convention.
Trade embargoes.
During the Cold war Soviet diplomats were regularly expelled, why not now ?
Look at this disgraceful story from the Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3736237.ece
Constant reference is made to the word "ASIAN"
yet it is quite obviously an islamic problem.
Then there is this:
http://www.hinduvoice.co.uk/Issues/21/DurgaPooja.htm
They are running around like headless chickens.
Our politicians need to realise that non moslems have votes as well.
at April 16, 2008 4:25 AM
moderate?
moderate rapist
moderate murderer
moderate massacre
moderate war
moderate madness
at April 16, 2008 4:33 AM
Sounds like Jacqui "I'm in charge of keeping the streets safe but I'm too scared to walk alone at night" Smith has fallen for more taqqiya.
The key to solving our Muslim problem does not lie in importing yet more of them.
This is the sort of thing some of our Pakistani immigrants enjoy, which is perfectly in line with Islam's oppression of women.
Posted by: watling at April 16, 2008 5:08 AM
somewhat off topic, but not altogether. Robert and JW seem to have missed an important story about some of the Muslim political leaders who benefit from the solicitous care and concern of Western politicians and the Western humanitarian machine. The leaders of the newly self-declared "independent" Kossovo have been accused of running a body parts racket by none other than Carla del Ponte, chief prosecutor of the Hague Tribunal on war crimes in the former Yugoslavia. Condi Rice very vigorously promoted Kossovo independence against Serbia, despite everything done against the Serbian civilian population there. Condi was very active on the Kossovo issue, as she still is in trying to build up a Muslim/Arab fanatic state to threaten Israel in the Land of Israel. See link for info on the body parts snatchers favored by Condi. Maybe Robert S can comment on the Islamic meaning of taking infidels' body parts.
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2008/04/condoleezza-rice-embraces-anti-israel.html
Posted by: Eliyahu at April 16, 2008 5:17 AM
Importing the Keystone Cops to defend Britain would be an improvement.
Posted by: Elric66 at April 16, 2008 5:45 AM
23rd of April, St Georges day.
Dont forget it ladies and gentlemen.
Posted by: OLDEngland at April 16, 2008 6:06 AM
23rd of April, St Georges day.
Dont forget it ladies and gentlemen.
Posted by: OLDEngland at April 16, 2008 6:06 AM
23rd of April, St Georges day.
Dont forget it ladies and gentlemen.
Posted by: OLDEngland at April 16, 2008 6:08 AM
has anything good come from Pakistan?
Posted by: pulsar182 at April 16, 2008 6:14 AM
There should be named the 'stupid award of the day' in regards to how Westerners deal with islam and muslims.
Posted by: R_not at April 16, 2008 7:00 AM
apostate_islam
"They are running around like headless chickens.
Our politicians need to realise that non moslems have votes as well"
Absolutely true, ref your link about attacks on Hindu's there are reports about attacks on Christian Churches but they do not make it into the papers either.
Posted by: Fred at April 16, 2008 7:18 AM
This effort is reminiscent of the democratization of Iraq and Afghanistan, since it's another pie-in-the-sky effort to tease reform out of the retrograde sludge of Islam. Better to face the unpleasant facts and change what can be changed, like one's immigration policy.
Posted by: jewdog at April 16, 2008 7:26 AM
Also reminiscent of the super madrassa building projects in Afghanistan supported by US dollars with hopes to prevent young Afghans from GOING to Pakistan for their degrees in Classical Jihad. So what we have now is the US keeping young Afgahns away from Pakistani imams and Britain is now importing them to make Britain safer...
This picture is way out of focus.
Posted by: USorThem at April 16, 2008 8:21 AM
By now, everybody knows the difference between "radical" Muslims and "moderate" Muslims.
"Radical" Muslims believe that heads should be sawed off, opposing hands and feet should be chopped, that Sharia law should dominate everywhere, that girls should be treated like slaves, that Muslims are superior in every way to "unbelievers, (despite all evidence to the contrary), that boys should sit on their asses while girl slaves and "infidel" slaves wait on them to do the bidding of the Muslim males, and that, generally speaking, it's Allah's will that Muslims should come from their various third world bung holes like Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, or any other already completely filthified and completely destroyed Islamic sewer in order to spread the poisonousness of Islam far and wide until it covers the earth.
"Radicals" arrive from their various third world cesspools and are ready to set about doing all of this immediately
"Moderates" believe Muslims should wait.
Posted by: jsla at April 16, 2008 8:21 AM
Our governments are paralyzed, prevented from acting by the PC disease.
I believe that most of our politicians recognize the problem (how could they not), but they refuse to take action because holding on to their own power is more important to them than saving our civilization.
In order for a politician to speak the truth about Islam, he or she would have to be willing to risk losing the next election. Most are not going to take that risk. I only know of one politician who is willing.
As long as our governments are run by people who put their own political careers over the survival of our culture, we will continue to lose, until it's eventually all over.
(I was going to say, "until the fat lady starts singing", but I don't think women will be allowed to sing by that time)
Posted by: shortfattexan at April 16, 2008 8:25 AM
Britain to import "moderate" imams from Pakistan
Stoopid!
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at April 16, 2008 8:41 AM
What a wonderful idea. Import "moderates" to stem the vitriol of the "radicals" through education.
Have them embrace the slow jihad, since it seems to be working like a charm already.
Whatever they do, they absolutely should not investigate or close down any of these mosques where suspected "extremism" is occuring.
I'd actually like to completely ridicule Smith and Brown personally, but given the three remaining choices for the US presidency this November and the lack of quality of far too many members of Congress, I'd best hold my tongue.
Posted by: awake at April 16, 2008 8:43 AM
I have a better idea, lets deport the moslems
Posted by: learnmore at April 16, 2008 3:36 AM
===================================
Either that, or put them in GTMO.
at April 16, 2008 8:45 AM
Maybe Pakistan will want to keep these "moderate imams" and send them to Lahore to calm down all those hundreds of bloodthirsty lawyers described in the preceeding article.
Posted by: ebonystone at April 16, 2008 8:48 AM
Hmm. Kind of like saying "Let's combat HIV with the common cold virus" ... it only makes the weaker one more deadly.
Posted by: Lori B. at April 16, 2008 8:52 AM
Europe has lost it's freakin mind!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351363,00.html
Let's hope the Vatican has a secret plan up it's sleeves.
Posted by: DeeMack at April 16, 2008 9:00 AM
The Brits and the Euros in general cant say they were warned about this. They were warned this would happen 40 years ago.
Rivers of Blood and the Mentality of ’68
From the desk of Paul Belien on Wed, 2008-04-16 07:50
This Sunday it will be exactly 40 years ago that Enoch Powell, a then 55-year old Conservative member of the British Parliament and a former government minister, gave a speech in Birmingham. It became know as the “Rivers of Blood speech” because it referred to a verse from the Roman poet Virgil prophetizing “wars, terrible wars, and the Tiber foaming with much blood.” The Tiber is the river that runs through Rome.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3179
Posted by: Elric66 at April 16, 2008 9:01 AM
"The vast majority of British Muslims have a Pakistani heritage. If we work with the Government there we can win the arguments."
Ms. Smith, Pakistani heritage or not, they're living in Britain. Do they want to be British or not? Not? SEND THEM BACK TO THEIR HERITAGE.
"We will also work to ensure we identify vulnerable people being groomed for terror - in the same way we protect young people from being dragged into crime and abuse."
The people who are "grooming" them are of Pakistani origin. Why aren't you throwing out the groomers?
"We need to do more to tackle those places where radicalisation is developing - in prisons, schools, higher education - so that people are getting the right messages about what it means to be a British Muslim."
Wrong again. You need them to know what it means to be a British CITIZEN. If they can't be citizens of Britain then they need to find another place to live.
Prisons? Schools? Higher education?
Aren't all of the above run or overseen by the GOVERNMENT? How did you let this radicalisation even start?
at April 16, 2008 9:15 AM
Sencit,
Is there a way for Parliamentary elections to be called prematurely? If the Brown / Smith cabal is running the country into the ground, can't any other Labourites step in?
at April 16, 2008 9:18 AM
Hmm. Kind of like saying "Let's combat HIV with the common cold virus" ... it only makes the weaker one more deadly.
Posted by: Lori B
Apologists would probably point to the Sabin polio vaccine. It used live polio virus, though in a weakened state, which gave the immune system what it needed to protect the body without causing the disease.
Maybe what we need are a thousand Ibn Warraqs to combat this scourge. Surely there are at least that many Muslims in Britain who are of a similar mindset.
Posted by: PMK at April 16, 2008 9:42 AM
This is like the idea in the 50's of crossbreeding aggresive African bees with passive, (moderate) honey bees to get the best of both. Result? - aggresive "Africanized" bees that are a menace throughout the Americas. And you can't get the toothpaste back into the tube.
Posted by: BunrattyBill at April 16, 2008 10:02 AM
What an abysmally stupid woman this Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith is! She is the same one who decreed that in Britain no one is allowed to use the word "terrorism" in conjunction with Islam and jihad, and jihad and Islam are not to be used together. Her boss, by the way, is headed for the U.S. right after dissing the President in a highly insulting remark.
Why should we receive Gordon Brown as a head of state? Independent Britain no longer exists. It would be more honest if he were a Brussels diplomat or bureaucrat, because the E.U. is the real state and Britain is now only a province of it.
"Moderate" in conjunction with "Islam" is just an Orwellian turn of phrase.
at April 16, 2008 10:02 AM
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
Rule number one when you find yourself in a hole is to STOP DIGGING!
Posted by: Eastview at April 16, 2008 10:04 AM
This is like the idea in the 50's of crossbreeding aggresive African bees with passive, (moderate) honey bees to get the best of both. Result? - aggresive "Africanized" bees that are a menace throughout the Americas. And you can't get the toothpaste back into the tube.
Posted by: BunrattyBill at April 16, 2008 10:04 AM
Elric66
"This Sunday it will be exactly 40 years ago that Enoch Powell, a then 55-year old Conservative member of the British Parliament and a former government minister, gave a speech in Birmingham."
and all the MSM in particular the B******t Broadcasting Corporation are running programme after programme saying how wrong he was. Concluding that any minor problems there may be are his fault and were caused by his speech.
at April 16, 2008 10:08 AM
Halloo Britain.
Save yourself.
You've got these imams travelling in the wrong direction.
Get off your collective butts and save yourself, you former home of Shakespeare and Churchill.
Posted by: dgene at April 16, 2008 10:15 AM
In light of Brigitte Bardot facing more charges of "racism" for her latest remarks about Islam
(and ritual animal slaughter), I suggest that Brigitte be granted UK citizenship and given the job of Home Secretary. That all to shake things up a bit.
at April 16, 2008 10:17 AM
"Moderate" clerics implies that there is a "moderate" Islam. Since the Qur'an IS the word of God, nothing in it can be changed. How do you "moderate" an absolute?
Posted by: tanstaafl at April 16, 2008 10:21 AM
Only the truly stupid could come up with a plan like that, to take imams from one of the worst Islamic hell holes on Earth to supposedly moderate our extreme Muslims.
It would be funny if it was not so deadly to the British people. This government has shown again and again over the last ten years that it is devoid of common sense, how I look forward to 2010 when we can vote this lot out of office, not that it will do much for us, because by then we will be part of the Marxist EU super state, who are just as stupid and a lot more dangerous, please scroll down on the Brussells Journel to where it talks about the death penalty.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3169
It says as a footnote to a footnote that they may apply the death penalty to war, riots and upheaval. Well war is covered by the Geneva Convention, unless we are talking about irregulars, so nothing new there, but its the bit that says riots, so if your at a political demonstration that turns into a riot because of heavy handed policing, say what could have happend with the SIOE demonstration in Brussells, could I be shot for that. One could argue that expressing what I think at this point could be causing upheaval, so will I end up with a bullet in my brain for posting this, from the lovely EU.
Posted by: Daffersd at April 16, 2008 10:24 AM
This totally defies logic. If the "moderate imams" in Pakistan can't control radical islam, what makes the Brits think it will work in GB? It's the same koran being taught by the same imams in the same mosques.
In the words of Forrest Gumps momma, "stupid is as stupid does".
Posted by: walterc at April 16, 2008 10:56 AM
Or:
Mouse inspectors to invite in tigers to control problem
(What they do with the tigers, they haven't thought about.)
Britain: land of The Law of Unintended Consequences.
Posted by: profitsbeard at April 16, 2008 11:34 AM
A man is drowning.
Should we throw him a cement block?
More moslems....
at April 16, 2008 11:35 AM
How is it that these "immams" are certified as "moderate"? The best solution it seems to me is fewer muslim immams..not more. This situation in the UK is a prime example of leftist government in action. Apologies to my UK friends but your leaders leave much to be desired....as do ours.
Posted by: pismopal at April 16, 2008 11:42 AM
Eurabians paying to bring imans and their families into the UK? In the old days muzzies had to pay for their travel, but now eurabians pay them to come here.
How wonderful. Kinda gives us europeans more willingness to pay our taxes, knowing that they will be used to import people who aim to destroy our way of life.
at April 16, 2008 11:44 AM
They have lost their minds indeed. And just what moderation are these moderates going to talk the radical fundamentalists into?
And how are these 'softies' going to be received by those they wish to moderate?
This appears to be another British dhimmi dip into fantasy land. Pat Condell could have a field day with this one...A dhimmidip is similar to the curtsey, or bowing in homage, set to music it is a dance step. Becoming the rage in the dhimified west...
at April 16, 2008 11:47 AM
What a dumb idea! It's like importing more Bimbos into Britain to replace Jacqui Smith. One Bimbo is that same as any other Bimbo.
The solution to the radical Imam problem is to expel them. Why do you have to replace them with other Imams? Isn't that the job of Muslims, to choose their own Imams? And if they choose unwisely, you expel them also.
In Smith's twisted thinking, Islam is too valuable too British culture and civilization to allow a Mosque to go withou an Imam. Her program, evidently, is to reinforce Islamic teaching in Britain, rather than to discourage it.
I don't think ideologues like Smith will be happy until they see prayer rugs on the floor of Westminister Abbey.
Posted by: rational
at April 16, 2008 12:01 PM
A bit off point, but how about this item from DEBKA about today's event's with Carter's moderate HAMAS frineds:
Israeli air strike kills 10 Palestinians in central Gaza after three Israeli soldiers die in clashes with Hamas raiders
April 16, 2008, 5:45 PM (GMT+02:00)
Israeli soldiers guard Gaza border
The terrorist stronghold of al Bureij was targeted for air attack after a Palestinian force spearheaded by Hamas crossed the border and clashed with Israeli troops in the Kibbutz Beeri sector early Wednesday, April 16. Two of the fallen Israeli soldiers are Sgt. Mattan Ovdati, 19, from Moshav Patish, and Sgt. Menhash Albaniyat, 20, from Kseife, both from the Negev region. The third soldier’s next of kin has been informed. Another three men were injured. Hamas reported 5 dead in several clashes with Israeli troops.
Heavy fighting continued on both sides of the border, including the Nahal Oz fuel terminal sector, after Palestinians broke through the barrier. They reported 5 dead in clashes with Israeli troops.
The Palestinians used mortars, anti-tank weapons and heavy machine guns against Israeli forces and civilian locations. At least 10 Qassam missiles were fired early Wednesday against Sderot and Ashkelon. The border barrier opposite Kibbutz Nirim was blown up. Nahal Oz, where Palestinian terrorists murdered two Israelis last week, was shelled.
Tuesday night, Palestinian machine gun fire was aimed directly for the first time at the houses of a kibbutz, Ain Hashlosha. Overnight, Israeli air strikes hit two terrorist targets. In Jebalya, a Jihad Islami gunman was killed riding a motorbike; several were injured in Sejaya.
Montjoie,
Godfrey
at April 16, 2008 12:14 PM
One more.
In their own words: They Want To Kill You
http://www.hulu.com/watch/16358/fox-news-specials-radical-islam-terror-in-its-own-words
Montjoie
Posted by: Godfrey Boullion at April 16, 2008 12:30 PM
PMK, not really.
Like HIV, Islam attacks and destroys a person's defenses (intellect, spirituality, morality and justice), leaving it in a weakened state. Introducing a "different" or "weaker" type of virus (read: "peaceful Muslims" who belong to a "Religion of Peace TM," but who in reality would turn on their non-Muslim "friends" in a heartbeat, should the Mahdi return) to such a weakened system, in the long run, makes the weaker virus(something that earlier could have easily been defended against) stronger and deadlier.
Posted by: Lori B. at April 16, 2008 12:52 PM
Stunning.
Having just returned from a visit to London, I can attest to the islamo-madness. The muslims control the city, and it appears the rest of the country as well.
They should be deporting muslims not importing more.
!!!
WARNING -- ISLAMIC RECALL NOTICE -- WARNING
!!!
I am issuing the first ever "Islamic Recall". Because of imminent threat of bodily injury and even death, all muslims should be returned to the manufacturer. Check the label of your muslims, if the inception date after 600 AD, they should be returned. Do not attempt to dispose of the muslims yourself as explosions have been known to occur.
at April 16, 2008 12:54 PM
LOL Mike ... can I get a refund too???
Posted by: Lori B. at April 16, 2008 1:29 PM
A little OT but still in line.
Some more news of the ridiculous - I mean, Muslim - wait, Im being redundant.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351388,00.html
Posted by: DeeMack at April 16, 2008 1:34 PM
Here's a picture of the girl.
Only a sick, demented F&#@er would want to marry this little thing! They're all MENTALLY SCREWED!!!!!!!!!!!!! Islam is the religion of the MENTALLY SCREWED!!!!!!!!!!!
But yet the UK feels the need to import more of them. Greaaaaaaat.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080415185328.c823bb5i&show_article=1
Posted by: DeeMack at April 16, 2008 1:39 PM
The previous article is on muslim lawyers in Pakistan saying it is ok to kill because of Fitna and then the next article says that there are 'moderate' imams in Pakistan? The same Pakistan that the saudis use to train their jihadists and that are protected by the population until they need some more money from us and then they might turn over a lackey down the chain of command that they couldn't think of how else to fire?!
Yeah, right.
Posted by: R_not at April 16, 2008 1:39 PM
Once again, the British seem to be led by those that can't tell horsesh*t from Shine-ola.
at April 16, 2008 1:57 PM
What if you deport the radicals? By definition
those left will be moderate & will likely become
more so.
at April 16, 2008 2:56 PM
Imams from Pakistan. Smart those Brits. This sounds like a great way to make sure the flock doesn't assimilate as well as bring in a few more immigrants.
Posted by: Papa Bear at April 16, 2008 2:59 PM
Check out Bridgette Bardot's comments in court over a "muslim slur."
Posted by: IOWarrrior at April 16, 2008 3:02 PM
Bridgette Bardot
Prosecutors asked the court to give the former sex symbol a two-month suspended prison sentence and fine her $23,760 for saying Muslims were "destroying our country and imposing its acts," according to Reuters.
"I am fed up with being under the thumb of this population which is destroying us, destroying our country and imposing its acts," the star of 'And God created woman' and 'Contempt' said.
Bardot has previously said France is being invaded by sheep-slaughtering Muslims and published a book attacking gays, immigrants and the unemployed, in which she also lamented the "Islamisation of France".
Posted by: IOWarrrior at April 16, 2008 3:06 PM
'Britain to import "moderate" imams from Pakistan to counter misunderstanders of Islam'
...and when importing more 'Islam Lite' imans does not work, they will then.....?
Posted by: PraiaFlamego at April 16, 2008 3:16 PM
Swallowing the spider to catch the fly, which should not have been swallowed in the first place...
at April 16, 2008 3:30 PM
"...and when importing more 'Islam Lite' imans does not work, they will then.....?"
PraiaFlamego,
Then they will import even more because the ideology will tell then that they did not import enough in the first place. Like a doctor, they'll conclude that they prescribed too small a dosage, so they'll simply up the dosage.
Posted by: rational
at April 16, 2008 3:58 PM
Moderate + Misunderstanders = MYTH
Sound like a smoke n' mirrors campaign.
Posted by: champ at April 16, 2008 4:08 PM
xxx
at April 16, 2008 4:31 PM
There is no such thing as a 'moderate muslim'. If you are a practicing muslim you are a radical, because everything in the Koran, Hadith and Sira is radical.
If you are a 'moderate muslim' you are likely non-practicing and muslim in name only. This puts you on par with being an apostate, kufr, and one who associates with the sons of monkeys and pigs. A death sentence if you follow and obey the Koran, Hadiths and Sira.
Way to go, Jaquie. Import more radicals to eat your population alive, drain your financial resources, populate your already over-populated jails, and kill innocent Brits all in the name of tolerance and multiculturalism.
Does Britain have the ability to impeach its leaders? If so, I recommend that you commence to it... toot sweet!
Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at April 16, 2008 5:26 PM
I think the Jihadi are more sane then our western leaders. The west is full of retarded leaders looking to some correct their messed policy. When in the first place they should have stopped Muslim immigration, but instead continued to support jihadi activities in world. For example India Kashmir. The west supported the Pakistanis Jihadis as freedom fighters. Looks like Britain will soon have to face Jihadis having their own land in the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and Londonistan.
Posted by: savsiv at April 16, 2008 5:34 PM
For the Brits on this thread:
Can you not call for impeachment? What are the rules over there? Why must you remain in your homes and be silent, and keep your gaze downward when you know that you and your families are about to re-live something similar to the abomination committed against your country by the Nazi/Islamists lead under Hitler?
Must you stand idly by, wringing your hands and being polite while your children are beaten and neighborhoods taken over and turned into no-go zones where even police and fire troops won't/can't respond? Must you stand idly by and witness your country crumble before your very eyes? Are you forced to stand idly by while these preachers of hatred openly declare war on your Country and taunt you over the fact that they can act with impunity AND collect tax revenue that YOU are paying to them and their brood mares and baby islamists?
Is there no recourse for you? Why doesn't the population do something? I really do not understand this at all.
Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at April 16, 2008 5:39 PM
"There is no such thing as a 'moderate muslim'."
Exactly. The notion that there are moderate Muslims is a lie, because a line needs to be drawn in the sand, and it's time to pick a side. To remain a Muslim means that you have chosen a side, and in my opinion, you haven't chosen very wisely, and you are still in league with the terrorists. Period.
Posted by: champ
at April 16, 2008 5:46 PM
I suppose I can hit a Muslim with a wet pillow, but will end up in jail for ten years and be fined $2,000,000 for being a racist... You really do not understand the Brits do you, we are a stoic bunch, we might moan, we suffer and endure and are dull those that could make a difference of course, the rest are too drugged up or too drunk or just too damn thick to notice and play the cool Britania crap like its the only thing left.
But then again what are we supposed to be fighting for, the Britain I would have fought for has long disappeared, sorry, I emigrated and my brothers are doing the same, Britain has had it.
Posted by: Daffersd at April 16, 2008 6:33 PM
I suppose I can hit a Muslim with a wet pillow, but will end up in jail for ten years and be fined $2,000,000 for being a racist... You really do not understand the Brits do you, we are a stoic bunch, we might moan, we suffer and endure and are dull those that could make a difference of course, the rest are too drugged up or too drunk or just too damn thick to notice and play the cool Britania crap like its the only thing left.
But then again what are we supposed to be fighting for, the Britain I would have fought for has long disappeared, sorry, I emigrated and my brothers are doing the same, Britain has had it.
Posted by: Daffersd at April 16, 2008 6:33 PM
Duly noted by myself and about ajillion jihadis reading this site. Well done.
A defeatist attitude is what they seek; it is folks like you that they not only seek, but they also devour... and lick their slimey chops in front of the cameras when done.
Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at April 16, 2008 6:39 PM
If Pakiland has moderate Imams, I think they ought to use them at home where they are needed most. Why would Pak-i-Govern post them to the UK? I don't buy what Ms Smith is doing will result in anything worth any value.
She is wasting more of tax dollar by importing Pak-i Govermented vetted Imams.
Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 16, 2008 7:10 PM
Posted by: Daffersd But then again what are we supposed to be fighting for, the Britain I would have fought for has long disappeared, sorry, I emigrated and my brothers are doing the same, Britain has had it.
Where to? Its the same all over Europe, the US, Canada, Australia or New Zealand.
No we hav'nt lost the war - far from it. What we are seeing from the three main partys, are the last gasps of PC and multiculturalism. They know they have had it, and are seeking a face saving exit out.
There is deep anger and disquiet in the land - and you know it. All it will take now is for someone to light the match.
Posted by: DP111 at April 16, 2008 7:15 PM
OLDEngland reminded everyone that 23 April is St George's Day.
OLDEngland (and other English posters like Granny Weatherwax) - I hope you have good things planned for 23 April. A street march in honor of the Saint? Morris dancers? A fete celebrating English culture (but hospitable to non-Muslims - Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Confucian/Taoist Chinese, black East Indies Christians - who might be welcome to set up a stall)? A fundraising dinner, with counter-jihad films and/or speakers? Catholics, and Anglicans, a Mass in Time of War, with several hours of bell-ringing afterward? A public recitation of Chesterton's "The Battle of Lepanto"?
The rest of us will pray a special prayer for England on that day. Among my ancestors were farmers from Lincolnshire; among my husband's ancestors were people from Yorkshire and Devon.
And St George's isn't the only possible date for protests and consciousness-raising. Guy Fawkes Day, rather later in the year, offers fantastic opportunities as well (I do believe, if I recall correctly, there was a jihadi plot hatched to blow up the Houses of Parliament...).
1st May - not its modern meaning, but its old meaning, with Maypoles and the Queen of the May - offers opportunities to celebrate all those aspects of native English culture that are so distasteful to Islam - music, mixed dancing, unveiled women.
Then, in Scotland, there's St Andrew's Day - 30 November.
My Scottish kinsfolk, you've got a nice long 'lead time' to plan something good - get cracking!
Anti-Jihadists in Wales and Ireland have missed the boat for this year - St David's Day was 1st March and St Patrick's, March 17th - but should be planning next year's anti-islamification events NOW.
Has anyone considered producing - and selling! - a suitably-illustrated calendar giving prominence to the dates of significant historic Infidel victories against the Islamosphere? - e.g: Poitiers; Lepanto; the retreat of the Ottoman fleet from Malta in 1565; Vienna 11.9.1683; the final removal of Muslim Moors from Spain; the end of Ottoman rule over Greece, Serbia, and Bulgaria; the dates of Israel's victories in 1948-49, 1956; 1967, and 1973; the eviction of Indonesian Muslim oppressors from Timor Lorosae.
Write in the names of key Infidel resistance leaders - e.g. Charles Martel, Jan Sobieski, and some of the IDF heroes of the past 60 years (I'm sure Hindus and Sikhs might have some dates to contribute, and heroes' names to mention, from *their* end; Ethiopians, too).
Include the birth-dates or other life-dates of those who challenged Islam on the level of the spirit and the intellect - the Sikh guru-warriors; Maimonides who dubbed Mohammed 'ha-Meshugga'; Manuel Paleologus; John of Damascus; Thomas Aquinas; Samuel Zwemer; the various un-PC scholars whose names Hugh keeps reciting to us.
Suitable awareness-raising and morale-boosting community activities to be planned around all such dates.
Start small - invite your as-yet-uninformed friends to dinner on St George's Day and educate them.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 16, 2008 7:40 PM
I'm still waiting for some muslim, any muslim, to explain how it is possible to worship Allah in moderation...
Posted by: duh_swami at April 16, 2008 8:48 PM
There is no moderate Islam.
There is no moderate Koran.
There are only dhimmi suckers.
Posted by: profitsbeard at April 16, 2008 9:38 PM
"Moderate Muslim clerics are to be brought in from Pakistan in an effort to combat extremism in British mosques, the Home Secretary will announce today."
Has anyone check their success ratio in Pakistan?
at April 16, 2008 9:53 PM
Britain.. I know you don't want my advice but.. all you have to do is CLOSE any radical mosks!!
CLOSE and DEPORT.. I am sur eyou can find a legal basis to close a mosk where death to Britain and general genocide is being preached.
Lord have MERCY!
Bring in Rage Boy, he's a Pak!
I am sure he will introduce "moderation".
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 16, 2008 11:47 PM
So they see a problem but instead of confronting it they make it worse.. are they deporting the "radical" imams they are replacing with these so-called "moderates"?
IMHO they are driving out Baal with Satan.
Take a good look at PAkistan.
What do you see?
Everything I see in Pakistan gives me reason to say STOP importing any more people from there!
There is a REASON the place is such a horrid mess!!!
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 16, 2008 11:58 PM
I have a better idea, lets deport the moslems
Posted by: learnmore at April 16, 2008 3:36 AM
AMEN!!!! A-FREAKIN'-MEN!!!
A very simple and straightforward solution guaranteed to work for ALL parties - except the beasts of Satan!!
Read what the Hinuds have to say about islam. They've had to endure this way longer than we.
Ask Ethiopians too!!
Rastafari TAKE NOTE!!
They are NOT on your side!!
islam = BABYLON!!!
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 17, 2008 12:54 AM
Eliyahu.. I posted a link to the Albanian body snatcher story on Jihadwatch about two weeks ago and it was completely ignored.
NOT ALL OF US ARE SILENT!!!
That's as disgusting as anything Dr. Mengele ever did. They took out body parts while the Serbian vicitms were still alive.
It's the moslem shop of Horrors.. Frankenfurters, anyone..?
Thank you for re-introducing this barbaric event. It must NOT be swepyt under the rug uncommented.
Actually it should require action.
NEVER AGAIN!!??
yeah right.
Serbia IS Europe!
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 17, 2008 1:00 AM
http://thehinduvoice.com/blog/2007/11/09/durga-puja-celebrations-is-east-london-attacked/
Methinks we shopuld add Hinduvoice to the blogrolls.. they've been having to deal with this shyte far longer than us. We should embrace them as a very valuable resourse.
THE WHOLE WORLD MUST UNITE AND STAND UP AGAINST pigslam!!!
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 17, 2008 1:30 AM
Importing "moderate" imams from Pakistan indeed? Wouldn't an easier solution be to deport "immoderate" imams (probably the majority) back to Pakistan? That is what the vast majority of British people would prefer. Sooner or later the tension between the willfully stupid left/liberal Guardianesque ruling elite of Briton and the general population is going to reach the yield point. The average Briton is just pig sick of the appeasement and moral cowardice shown by them. As Daniel Pipes suggested recently, Europe now faces two possibilities: demographic capitulation to Islam, or a general resistance from the populace who finally stand up and say that enough is enough!
"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;"
...
at April 17, 2008 1:38 AM
In my posting above, inspired by OLDEngland's reminder about St George's Day, I suggested the production of a calendar for non-dhimmis/ the counter-jihad.
Bright idea, revised:such a calendar could feature the non-dhimmi award winners, national and international.
Either create a cartoon/ caricature of the people concerned, or paint a portrait from one of their better photographs.
If we don't yet have twelve such, we could make up the numbers with selected Historic Heroes - e.g. Charles Martel, the Citizens of Otranto, Don John of Austria, John de Vallette, Isabella of Spain, John Quincy Adams (for ruthlessly truthful words), the Passengers of Flight 93.
The Muslims have their 'martyr' posters and videos.
So what: we Infidels can do lots better. We have LOTS more artistic expertise.
Such a calendar (plus a digital version of the portraits + captions, for use as screen saver) would be a brilliant conversation-starter for the home or office.
And if popular, it might be a money-spinner!
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 17, 2008 1:47 AM
DP111, sorry, depression at the ineptness of our leaders hitting me again.
But yes your right, there are some good signs, the reason for my depression, I spent about an hour explaining to a French socialist liberty, the difference between Continental Europe and the UK, I mentioned that death penalty sleight of hand and at the end of this his defintion of liberty was the freedom to travel, I suggested that he live in China then. You explain until your blue in the face and the Socialists still come up with crap like that, so I had a fit of depression.
What a great choice we seem to be ending up with though, Communism/Nazism aka the EU or Islamism. Better dead then red and better dead then in a 6 year olds bed.
Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis, well my American friends have pistols, rifles semi-autos and the like, and what about me living in Europe, didly squat, what do I and many others like me use, that is so easy to say isn't it. Yes I wish my people would stand up, but they don't, because we are too damn law abiding and stubbon, we moan about it and do nothing, demos against the EU and Islam are poorly attended, people keep looking for a leader, but they have all been PC'd out of existence... Take that as a bitter rant.
Britain is being hollowed out by the EU and its Labour so called government, it is a catastrophe, that is what I mean about the Britain that used to exist, used to mean something, used to be worth something, do you know what it is like to feel ashamed of your country, 60's and 70's, then get it back 80's and 90's and then have that pride removed again by people like this toe rag who has not got a clue on how to deal with Islam.
I suppose I am developing a contempt for my own people.
Ummah Gummah, the body snatching was duly noted by us, the fact is that we seem to be immune to getting outraged over this, it was however reported in the MSM. So perhaps someone will try to deal with this, I hope so. I had a quick look at the link you gave me, I spoke to a Hindu in Zurich about the Islamic threat about 1 year ago. Keep it up, I happen to think that no-whites are the best placed to fight Islam, you will not get tarred as a racist.
Posted by: Daffersd at April 17, 2008 3:53 AM
Dear Britain,
Don't go about this foolish idea. It has been foolish enough here in India, talking about "moderate islam". India has paid and is even now paying a very high price in terms of peace, economy and security because of its harping on "moderate islam".
Islam is basically a death cult. There can be no "moderate" death.
How do you moderate rape, paedophilia and genocide ?
Don't have the Indian idealism, but instead have the famed Anglo-Saxon pragmatism.
at April 17, 2008 5:50 AM
This is just what I have grown to expect from the stupid politicians who run my country. The gang of 3, LibLabCon, are all suffocating under a veil of political correctness. They are unable to see the only way forward. Islam is the single greatest danger to World freedom there has ever been.
To think that our problems can be cured by importing more of the same (presumably at the tax payers expense) is nothing short of Lunacy.
We need to be thinking about closing mosques, and repatriating as many of these unwanted Medieval freaks as is possible.
Most decent Englishmen would be happy to pay higher taxes for a few years to pay for the flights to send these people back where they belong. The long term benefit to our country would be enormous. We would in the long term save billions in the social security payments our local governments are so insistent on ensuring they receive.
A growing number of Englishmen are seeing Islam for what it truly is. They are also giving their support to the only political party in the UK prepared to openly oppose such lunacy. The BNP.
These are desperate times and desperate measures are needed.
at April 17, 2008 7:18 AM
In case anyone did not trawl through the link on the Hindu post above this comment posted on 12 Nov 07 following a muslim attack on them (In London?)is interesting.
Sir, The behaviour of “A” muslim comes directly from his so called holy book “k o r a n”. No surprise at all this kind of hate that islam generates not only effects Hindus , but will effect the host religion , (Christianity in the case of England).
Muslims have their religious duty to be hostile to all nonbelieving kaffirs, so what ever they do in the name of islam is ligit and even the most moderate of moderate islam followers do not stop them from doing such evil (not evil according to islam ). This kind of anmial behaviour ( not be disrespectful to the animal world) by followers of islam (mainly from pakistan and bangladeshi trash) has been a routine at the Navratri Garba Festivals organised by Gujarati communities from the early seventies from the last century, although most communities have learned to have good sicuruty on the event days .
The Hindu youth of today are capable of standing face to face against these islamic trash, but violence is not the way coz we are a law abiding citizens of this country and let the law agencies handle situstions like these. It would be very much in the interest of this nation that the police force take appropriate steps to curb this islamic menace before it becomes a national problem ( I am sure the people of this country know how distasteful these islamists are and can be ).
Hinduism has lived till today and go on for ever more no matter what .
COMMENT
The only problem is that he does not understand the police force is afraid of being politically incorrect. But unlike our dumbo leaders he understands that "Moderate Imans" is a contradiction in terms.
Posted by: Fred at April 17, 2008 8:35 AM
Fred I think youll find our Police force are quite aware of the situation and like all British public services theyll stay professional. Sadly from what Ive been reading the Police force will now be issued Firearms in effort to combat the increased gun crime.
If the Police stay as stiff lipped and professional as they have done then Britain is going to find it much harder to detox from the paralyzing political correctness sickness than ever before.
2010 im afraid may not be soon enough to stop the NuLabour clowns driving us into obscurity and the EU.
Posted by: OLDEngland at April 17, 2008 9:54 AM
WANTED: Sexy, seductive pakistan fox to watch sweet, naive British hen house.
Posted by: mustang65 at April 18, 2008 1:50 AM
whatttsamatta? UK not content to import fine rugs and inexpensive clothing from Pakinstan?
I guess importing hate is more important in the realm of becoming completely dhimmified.
Posted by: pulsar182 at April 19, 2008 8:13 AM
" Stupid is as Stupid Does"
Forrest Gump
at April 20, 2008 11:29 AM
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