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It has been brought to my attention (thanks, James) that several people are claiming a contradiction between these two statements I have made recently.
The first one is from here:
Many strange things have happened in history and I would never say that Islamic reform is absolutely impossible, but Westerners are extraordinarily foolish when they harbor any hopes of it actually happening on a large scale. We need instead to focus on efforts to defend ourselves both militarily and culturally from the jihadist challenge, and to continue to call the bluffs of pseudo-reformers who intend ultimately only to deceive Western non-Muslims--many of whom are quite anxious to be deceived.
And the second is from here:
Here again an increase of interest in and commitment to Islam apparently coincides with involvement with jihadist activity. The implications are many, and American and British Muslim groups that profess moderation ought to be the first to be examining them. But of course, instead they are still engaged in denying that any such correlation exists, despite a superabundance of evidence to the contrary.
The claim is being made that by saying that "American and British Muslim groups that profess moderation ought to be the first to be examining" the fact that "an increase of interest in and commitment to Islam apparently coincides with involvement with jihadist activity" I am contradicting my statement that "Westerners are extraordinarily foolish when they harbor any hopes of [Islamic reform] actually happening on a large scale." In other words, if I really believed that Islamic reform were virtually impossible, I wouldn't be asking American Muslim groups to face the facts about the connection between devoutness and attachment to jihadism.
Of course, if people want to find difficulties, inconsistencies, contradictions, they will find them no matter what, but there is not actually anything of the kind here. I spoke in the first statement above about calling the bluffs of pseudo-reformers, and in the second I was doing just that, by pointing out that the self-proclaimed moderate Muslim groups were doing nothing to deal with the connection between the seriousness of one's Islamic commitment and involvement in jihad activity.
And that is supposed to be evidence that I actually do believe, contrary to what I've said all along as well as in the first statement above, that Islamic reform is likely and that Western non-Muslims should count on it happening -- and, indeed, not defend themselves because the reformist Muslims are taking care of the problem for us! This preposterous farrago says a great deal about those who imagine it and pretend to analyze my writing -- but nothing at all about me or anything I've written.
What these critics apparently fail to realize is that most Americans continue to take at face value the claims to moderation of the most prominent American Muslim advocacy groups. Again and again these claims need to be challenged, by using their groups' own self-definition against them and pointing out the disparity between their stated mission and their actual behavior -- and by asking them questions, as above, about why they aren't doing what one would reasonably expect them to be doing if their claims to be benign, peaceful and moderate were genuine.
This both challenges those pseudo-moderate groups, and plants a question in the mind of any reasonably open-minded but uninformed people -- should any happen by -- about just why those groups aren't doing such things, and what that shows about where their sentiments really lie.
And I am going to keep doing this, as well as to keep insisting that the West needs to recover its self-confidence, its sense of its own identity, and defend itself. I am also going to keep pointing out the many virtually insuperable obstacles to Islamic reform, while encouraging any courageous individual Muslim who actually admits that there are elements of Islam that give rise to violence and supremacism, and that those elements need somehow to be rejected. Anyone who finds in this evidence of my inconsistency, dishonesty, or lack of a serious commitment to the defense of the West needs a basic course in reading comprehension, or logic. If you find yourself in a bar sitting next to one of these characters, move to another establishment and watch that the guy doesn't tag along after you, tugging at your sleeve and muttering bitterly about his unrecognized genius and crystalline, unimpeachable correctness.
Posted by Robert at April 21, 2008 11:12 PM
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"Anyone who finds in this evidence of my inconsistency, dishonesty, or lack of a serious commitment to the defense of the West needs a basic course in reading comprehension, or logic. If you find yourself in a bar sitting next to one of these characters, move to another establishment and watch that the guy doesn't tag along after you, tugging at your sleeve and muttering bitterly about his unrecognized genius and crystalline, unimpeachable correctness."
LMAO!! You're funny, Robert!
![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 21, 2008 11:21 PM
champ:
Thanks, but since that image was stolen, I guess I'm funny in a Milton Berle kind of way.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at April 21, 2008 11:24 PM
Seeing more and more sarcasm from you these days Robert...from the constant "misunderstanders of Islam" headlines to the fabulous quote above that Champ highlighted.
Who can blame you, things being what they are...up is down, right is left, Islam is peace.
Hang in there fearless leader. Your followers are growing...both in numbers and awareness.
And by the way, the guy at the bar...is invariably a flaming liberal.
Posted by: Cornelius at April 21, 2008 11:31 PM
Cornelius:
And by the way, the guy at the bar...is invariably a flaming liberal.
Not this time, sir. Not this time.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at April 21, 2008 11:39 PM
I guess I'm funny in a Milton Berle kind of way.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Posted by: jihadwatch
OK - I can dig it! LOL!!
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bobhope/images/vcvg56.jpg
at April 21, 2008 11:51 PM
Alright, Robert. I'll bite, but I know I'm going to feel stupid.
Stolen?
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at April 22, 2008 12:51 AM
I have been running a poll on my bloq
now if only I gets more votes
was Mohammed a profit or a nutcase
yes very definitely a nutcase
2 (40%)
no he was a great man
0 (0%)
he would've been in thethe funny Farm today
3 (60%)
he would have been in prison
4 (80%)
only if you believe the Koran
1 (20%)
Change your vote
Votes so far: 5
Days left to vote: 2
at April 22, 2008 1:48 AM
Maybe this isn't Berle's imagery of a guy tugging at your sleeve etc., but the unwarranted sniping and griping from the peanut gallery fits.
Posted by: special_guest at April 22, 2008 2:52 AM
Haid:
Yes, the bar image was stolen, or borrowed with respect, from John Derbyshire's second point here
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmNmNjQ2MDE1ZGEyYzY0OGIwZWJlNWUwYzJlMThlMDI=
about one of the same men I am speaking about above.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at April 22, 2008 6:09 AM
Well, thank God it was an obscure allusion. I don't feel so dumb after all.
"Borrowed with respect"--I knew that's what you meant.
Regards,
HAID
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at April 22, 2008 8:50 AM
Robert, the secret of originality is plagiarism.
Posted by: Moonzoo at April 22, 2008 9:18 AM
From article: doesn't tag along after you, tugging at your sleeve and muttering bitterly about his unrecognized genius and crystalline, unimpeachable correctness.
I had an XXX girl friend who was like that when she got drunk, which was daily. It did not take long for XXX to turn into just plain 'ex'...So long, it's been good ta know ya...
Posted by: duh_swami at April 22, 2008 12:27 PM
"..This both challenges those pseudo-moderate groups, and plants a question in the mind of any reasonably open-minded but uninformed people -- should any happen by -- about just why those groups aren't doing such things, and what that shows about where their sentiments really lie.And I am going to keep doing this, as well as to keep insisting that the West needs to recover its self-confidence, its sense of its own identity, and defend itself.."
Absolutely true!
Yet, your last remark about Western self-confidence that is, the lack of it especially when applied to "our" politicians, might point to a serious problem and it might prove to be the thin end of an ever bigger wedge for islamists.
Here's the problem:
Our politicians and PC elites today are pretty much prepared to give in to perceived Muslim demands, even without any form of serious pressure. So a clever Islamist/Jihadist would be switching now to a pr-wise, clever adaptation of tactics. He will go out and "attack" the more agressive sounding brothers in Allah, teaching them a firm lesson, while knowing that Western authorities are listening in approval. It wouldn't even harm their ultimate objectives when they would actually do something against the extremists in our cities.
I'm well aware of the fact that I'm speaking about the situation in Europe here, but perhaps the dynamics also apply to the US, I'm not sure.
We are witnessing right now in Amsterdam, that former outspoken salafists are displaying a "nice face", and immediately get support from local politicians eager to claim their share in the succesful turn to moderation of these creeps. Some of these jihadists-turned-mother-Theresa now even launch an all-out attack on radical imams and even persuade Muslims with political power to prepare measures to evict the unwanted radical elements from our country. Now, normally our national politicians wouldn't go so far, due to Political Politeness, but when Muslims are prepared to propose such measures they are enthusiasticly received. I won't go on about the apparent hypocracy and all, we know about that already.
All I'm saying is this: a cunning jihadist could meet all that you would wish from someone who professes to be a "moderate", and even go a bit further, without harming his ultimate goal of advancing Islam as the future dominant force in public life. This is the case because our politicians are still eager to sell out Western civilization.
Kind regards from Amsterdam,
Sagunto
at April 23, 2008 3:09 PM
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