And the Labor governments new plan to fight this Jihad.....

Invite Pakistan back into the Commonwealth and give Jihadists easy access to visas to come to the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7357987.stm

Posted by: km at April 22, 2008 11:56 AM

Look, you Islamophobes. These plots have nothing to do with Islam.

The fact that several of those arrested and imprisoned have long beards and bruises on their foreheads, have been heard yelling "allahu akhbar", have been filmed calling for the deaths of the kuffar and have posted jihadist videos in which they quote from the Qur'an to justify their actions is purely coincidental.

Shame on you all.

Posted by: watling at April 22, 2008 12:09 PM

Not very reassuring is it. I mean with all the PC and appeasement and whitewashing I feel more lives are going to be lost. The Non Muslims are going to really suffer tragically because of the mentality and obfuscation by our leaders in dealing with this ideology. It is sad that they do not consider the 5 billion Non Muslims in the world when it comes to their well being and rights for freedom and safety. Instead let us not offend the 1.5 billion Muslims. While they small percentage of Jihadist are more then happy to annihilate the infidels. The Imams are more than happy to vilify and spread hate against non Muslims. I guess they do not consider to not offend the Non Muslims. The doctrine of Islam is evil. It is clear that morally and ethically it is an evil doctrine that must not prevail in countries which are for human rights, equality, democratic freedom, freedom of human thought and speech, liberty and equal justice under the law. These are superior to Islam and Sharia.

Posted by: savsiv at April 22, 2008 12:13 PM

Engaging in a war of survival half-heartedly is a failed long-term strategy...what makes the policy-makers and decision-makers think that they can defeat this threat with idle and hollow words? Its logical to conclude that based on population trends, immigration patterns and petro dollars, it’s not anymore a question of whether Europe will succumb to islam but rather how soon.

Bloodysword out.

Posted by: bloodysword at April 22, 2008 12:29 PM

28 days to 42 days? This is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Posted by: Wellington at April 22, 2008 12:47 PM

Der Spiegel published some statistics regarding the Muslim population (which happens to be mostly of Turkish origin) in Germany. Of course this isn't relevant to the above post, but it might be of interest.

56.9% of respondents were judged to be at "medium" distance from democracy. 9.9% were established to be at a "large distance" from democracy.

29.9% believe that it should be forbidden to encourage Muslims to change religion. 15.6% believe that "non-Muslims are cursed by Allah."

Approximately one million Muslims (out of around three million or slightly more) already have German citizenship.

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/0,5538,30661,00.html

And the EU's Enlargement Minister wants to speed up membership talks with Turkey.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,548890,00.html

Posted by: margheri at April 22, 2008 12:48 PM

No need to fear Muslims in the UK and the rest of Europe-Tariq Ramadan says so.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,548970,00.html

I'm sure that you all feel so much better now!

Posted by: margheri at April 22, 2008 12:51 PM

First, I call on everyone to respect the recent State Dept directive that we should all stop using the term J***d in relation to the actions undertaken by misunderstanders of Islam that carry out freedom fighting actions. I fully support that position. It will result in greater cooperation between our cultures and reduce the xenophobic rhetoric that has been preventing meaningful dialog between Islam and the west.
To that end I have recently attempted to open up lines of communication by having constructive meetings with the leaders of Palestine. The war mongering administration attempted to prevent and frustrate my diplomatic aims, but I wish to report that my trip was a success. I have secured the promises of Hamas for a partial truce for the Gaza Strip that their Hamas freedom fighters liberated last June. The only concession they wish from Israel is to open the border crossings into Egypt and Israel from Gaza to allow for the free movement of people and goods through the crossings. This will allow the fledgling Palestinian space authority to continue developing its rocket industry. Hamas expressed regret over the thousands of failed space launches that have crashed in Israel and vowed improvements if Israel would grant them access to better guidance technology as part of the truce package. I am looking forward to meeting with the Nobel Peace Prize Committee soon.

Sincerely,
President Jimmy Carter

PS: I wish to express my sincere thanks to everyone that says that George W Bush is the worst President ever. I appreciate that everyone has now recognized the substantial and long lasting peace efforts I have secured in the Middle East. The current Peace Mission and it's results are a demonstration that as now Second Worst President Ever, I try harder.

Posted by: GrimReaperxxx at April 22, 2008 12:52 PM

"The Met Commissioner said he feared that the current 28-day limit [on pre-charge detention of suspected terrorists], which the Government wants to extend to 42 days, would soon prove insufficient because of the growing complexities, scale and international scope of plots that police and the security service were detecting.
-- from the article above

All the security services are asking for is a two-week extension. That's an absurd request. They should be asking for a year or more,

Posted by: Hugh at April 22, 2008 12:55 PM

margheri: Interesting figures relating to Muslims in Germany. Let's see now. Assuming the accuracy of these statistics (who would really doubt them?), approximately 300,000 German citizens think that it should be illegal for Christians to even attempt to convert Muslims in Germany to Christianity and some 156,000 Germans are convinced that the vast bulk of their fellow Germans are cursed by the deity. Oh, this is enlightened. This is noble. This is comforting. This is Islam.

Posted by: Wellington at April 22, 2008 1:02 PM

Perhaps my understanding of sarcasm is a bit faulty, perhaps you were not serious when you said this, Hugh:

"All the security services are asking for is a two-week extension. That's an absurd request. They should be asking for a year or more, "

It cannot be acceptable that people are going to be thrown into prison on the suspicion of being jihadist terrorists - the suspicion, mind, not evidence presented before a judge in court! - for 42 days. Calling for a whole year is on a par with the system used in totalitarian states.

Are you asking us to give up our civil liberties, bit by bit, in order to 'defend' them?
We have quite a few examples of how these anti-terror laws have already been used against ordinary Britons (not muslims!) who displeased the Labour Party, or some Local Authorities.

And now its suddenly necessary to stick people in prison - on suspicion! without any evidence! without any judge or jury able to intervene! - for 42 days? Or even, if Hugh was serious, a whole year?

What happens if these people turn out to be innocent after all?

And why is it necessary if the police and MI5 are obviously quite successful already at dealing with these would-be terrorists?

At the moment, the police can hold people 'on suspicion' for 28 days in Great Britain.

For how long can people be held 'on suspicion' in the USA?

This measure, never mind the ridiculous call for holding them for a year, is akin to asking us to commit suicide in order not to be killed.

How can we defend our free society if we curtail our freedom ourselves?

Posted by: Calon Lan at April 22, 2008 1:41 PM

Does anyone know where I can find out the intended dates of these attacks?

Posted by: astuddis at April 22, 2008 1:59 PM

Funny all these terror attacks seem to have an Islamic element.

Do you think there is an underlying connection?

Definitely a case for Sherlock Holmes!

Posted by: James at April 22, 2008 2:12 PM

And another thing ...

It is remarkable, is it not, that neither Labour nor Tory Governments felt the need for such lengthy times of holding suspects during the years of terror by the IRA, PIRA etc. !

These terror attacks were more deadly than what the jihadists have done so far. The Irish were not as visually different from the native population than the jihadists, nor did they speak in a different language.

We survived these times without state infringements of our civil rights, even though surveillance and detection methods were far less sophisticated then.

I see no need for this prolongation of the time police can hold suspects. Even now 28 days is longer than in any other Western country, and it should be clear that the jihadists would win a clear battle if we give up our liberties out of fear.

London and Great Britain survived the IRA - we will survive the jihadists, but only if we keep our civil rights.

And please do not forget that this statement by Sir Ian Blair (a Labour appointee, btw!) is made to bolster the Government's case to get the 42 day detention through parliament. It is made in the same vein as the statement by the Home Secretary a short while ago, also reported here.

It is politics, dirty politics, and government propaganda - and has nothing to do with the fight against jihad.

Posted by: Calon Lan at April 22, 2008 2:51 PM

It is only a matter of time before the British realize that the secular liberals have been lying to them about Muslim supremacism. A few more bombing and the English will say "Enough is enough" and start removing Muslim immigrants who are anti-democratic and anti-pluralist. Why any society would allow Muslim immigrants with political views far less tolerant than the evil KKK, is insanity.

My fear is that many will turn to the BNP as the only voice willing to speak out against murderous Muslims. Where is the Conservative party!? Why don't the normal folk start speaking out against this madness. Oh right, those pesky hate laws where you can't speak out against Muslim hate because you'll be arrested for promoting hate against Muslims. Then there is the madness that if you speak out against Muslim violence, Muslims will be offended and threaten to kill you.

Here ends the rant; I await the courage of the English to rise up against the current Loonie Leadership in England right now.

Posted by: James Martel at April 22, 2008 2:55 PM

If we have video evidence that our enemy uses the word 'jihad' what educated society thinks we can't use the same term?

Instead of listening to a few highly paid muslims that are willing to bribe our politicians why don't we take a poll of muslims (maybe this has already been done) asking the question
'what is jihad?' and
'are those muslims really muslims that are declaring jihad against western countries?' and
'are they justified to do so?'

Posted by: alaskan1000 at April 22, 2008 3:23 PM

What do you suppose the sign saying Jesus will rise the sword of islam means?

In this link
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/192380.php

Posted by: Abrog8 at April 22, 2008 3:39 PM

I found this regarding my above question.

In the end times as described by Muhammad, ‘Isa becomes a warrior who will return with his sword and lance. He will destroy the Christian religion and make Islam the only religion in all the world. Finally at the last judgement he will condemn Christians to hell for believing in the crucifixion and the incarnation.

Posted by: Abrog8 at April 22, 2008 4:04 PM

>Things are changing too fast... I did not read a single sentence in the article connecting Islam to terrorists. The art is referring to terrorists, not necessarily Islamic terrorists. There is no mention of "Islamic terrorists".

Are there any new laws in the UK that prevents calling 'Islamic terrorists' by their correct name?

Posted by: MusHuntCowboy at April 22, 2008 4:39 PM

Here ends the rant; I await the courage of the English to rise up against the current Loonie Leadership in England right now.

It might be a while. Listen to question time and most questions are about this government giveaway or that one. The conservatives appear to be the only ones remotely concerned with the Islamic threat to Britain. Everyone, conservatives included, seems most concerned with making sure no Muslim feelings are hurt. Thus, terrorism isn't Islamic, even though fifteen (that you know of) jihad attacks were prevented.

Posted by: PMK at April 22, 2008 4:40 PM

MusHunt is ahead of me:
I read this Daily Mail report and, despite what it says in the JW intro, I could not find the following words anywhere in it, nor in the McDonald's story linked to it:

Jihad
Islam
Muslim
Pakistan

Unbelieveable.
Or is it just past my bed-time?
I don't doubt that some cross-fertilization is going on between Jihadis and animal rightsists, anti-globalizationists and so on, and that some of the latter somehow see themselves as being on the same side (as in the murder of Pim Fortuyn).
But, fundamentally, this Mail report doesn't want to know what the prime mover of terror today only just happens to be....

Posted by: M Al-Content at April 22, 2008 5:22 PM

Calon Lan

Can I say that in quoting the Government's attitude to the IRA you have selected a particularly bad example?

For a start the IRA shared a basic understanding of the rules of Christian Europe and whenever they shot people or blew them up they were careful to have a justification suitable for the liberal left in the immediate press release. The late and in my case unlamented Paul Foot printed their releases in Private Eye pretty much verbatim and a leading British journalist called them the “Satchi and Satchi”* of political propaganda. But most importantly as pointed out by Enoch Powell (Can I mention his name without being accused of racism?) the British government and the IRA had the same final political objective. They wanted the British to get out and the British have long regarded Ulster as a pain in the a*** and wanted to get out.

In Ulster you were dealing with a comparatively small group of known individuals and while the bombing and killing was embarrassing it was a limited campaign with limited objectives and in no way a threat to society in general. Put bluntly the level of casualties was politically acceptable. Politicians in London and Dublin knew who they were and did not worry too much as long as they confined their activities to Northern Ireland. Add to that that the Irish in general are not much more inclined to martyrdom than anyone else in Europe. Nor did they want a theocracy or a workers republic they wanted to go on holiday to the Costa del Sol and watch Soap Operas like everyone else in the British Isles.

A leading Labour politician Richard Crossman said when the whole thing kicked off in 1970, “The problem with Ulster is that the IRA are only killing professional soldiers and Irish policemen who nobody in Britain cares about. If they were killing conscripts the public outcry would be such that the government would be forced to do something”.

As long as the IRA killed members of the security services it wasn’t a political problem so civil rights depend on the willingness of members of the police and army to allow themselves to be killed. I am sure this is not a problem for you then or now but the jahids's want to kill us all and I am not too keen on that.

Just one major difference I would draw your attention to, there was an openly stated understanding that the IRA would not bomb the London Tube system perhaps because that would have created too much negative publicity. There are those who think there was a second reason just as important – they had been told some of their leaders would meet with a nasty accident if they did. This is not the case with the jahids's.

In short it might have involved bombs and bullets but otherwise it was a completely different ball game.

* For the benefit of non-UK posters Satchi and Satchi are a world class PR company based in London

Posted by: Fred at April 22, 2008 5:24 PM

"Fifteen terrorist attacks in Britain have been foiled since the 7/7 London bombings," from the Daily Mail (thanks to all who sent this in):

You mean, fifteen ISLAMIC terrorist attacks?

You left out "Islamic." They're "Islamic" - don't you know that? Why are you leaving that word out?

Posted by: darcy at April 22, 2008 5:35 PM

Some cut and paste info about this story.

The main elements of the Bill are:
- pre-charge detention of terrorist suspects to be extended from 28 days to 42 days in certain circumstances (judge decides)
- changes to enable the post-charge questioning of terrorist suspects and the drawing of adverse inferences from silence
- imposing requirements on people convicted of terrorist offences to let authorities know where they are living and any changes to their circumstances
- enhanced sentencing of offenders who commit offences with a terrorist connection
provision for inquests and inquiries to be heard without a jury.

The Bill would also confer further powers to gather and share information for counter-terrorism and other purposes, and amend the law relating to asset-freezing procedures.
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2007-08/counterterrorism.html

The House of Lords will, if it follows past form, shred the proposals to bits.

In 2005 the House of Commons defeated a Bill pushing for a 90-day limit.

UK Human Rights Watch considers that the current 28 day limit already violates human rights law.“Six weeks of detention without charge isn’t the way to win hearts and minds,” "undermining community relations in Britain and the UK’s image abroad.”

The Muslim Council of Britain has told the government that any extension of pre-charge detention is likely to be counterproductive, and damaging to the battle of hearts and minds that Prime Minister Gordon Brown has identified as crucial to combating terrorism effectively.

Posted by: Rob at April 22, 2008 5:38 PM

I think it was an American who said,

"Get them by the b***s and their hearts and minds will follow."

Posted by: Fred at April 22, 2008 5:52 PM

"What happens if these people turn out to be innocent after all?"

....and what if they turnout guilty?...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at April 22, 2008 6:19 PM

A new organisation to fight Islamic extremism has been setup in the UK - The Quilliam Foundation. More on this

http://uppompeii1.uppompeii.com/2008/04/22/the-quilliam-conspiracy.aspx

From the Qulliam site

Just as Muslims across the globe have adopted from and adapted to local cultures and traditions, while remaining true to the essence of their faith

And that last is precisely the problem. The essence of Islam is the conquest of the lands, wealth, power, booty (including women) of the Infidel.

But let us proceed. Let us consider for argument, the hypothetical situation that ALL Muslims at present living in the West, accepted the call to clean up their communities of extremism. They even went further and made the changes in their teachings of the Koran and the jihad. Such an outcome would no doubt come as a relief to many on this site and elsewhere. But I counter, that all such changes were being done merely to protect the ummah while it grows at ever-increasing pace in the West. Once a near majority is achieved, that future generation of Muslims will simply revoke any changes and return to the traditions of the unchanging and unchangeable Koran i.e. the "canonical texts" as Hugh F puts it. They will even praise this generation of Muslims for having done what was necessary to protect Islam.
Islamic ideologues take the long view - in several decades or more. It is only right that we as well consider options keeping in mind Islam’s long-term goals.

Quilliam Foundation also wants to go back to the roots of Islam. Note the equivalence with Christianity that is being sold here. In Europe there were wars of religion, until it was realised (when the Bible became available to all), that the message of Jesus was one of love. What the Quilliam Foundation is trying to do is to sell the idea, that Islam is like Christianity, and that the violence of Islam now, is quite out of keeping with the message of Mohammed. Of course this is pure dissimulation - it is trading on the ignorance of people, who believe that all religions must be peaceful and good, and it is just the extremists who are to blame. It is trading on the gullibility of politicians, who would desperately like to believe in the inherent peaceful nature of Islam, thus not having to do what is difficult and painful - rejection of Islam in the West, and its slow and steady removal from our shores.

There is no other peaceful and humane way. The rest lead to civil war, massacres, ethnic cleansing, and partition.

Dear Mr Spencer

The Quilliam Foundation, is a dangerous development, and has to be watched. It is backed I believe by the government, is on the BBC, and as Gandalf (at UP Pompeii) points out, has the same aims as the Education authorities in the UK – i.e., to lull the population about the impending disaster that this government has itself created.

http://uppompeii1.uppompeii.com/2008/04/22/the-quilliam-conspiracy.aspx

Posted by: DP111 at April 22, 2008 6:26 PM

Fifteen planned terrorist attacks in Britain have been foiled since the 2005 London bombings

Those Judaeo-Christian-Hindu-atheist terrorists have been busy. Again.

Posted by: special_guest at April 22, 2008 6:28 PM

Meanwhile, two more MUs have been arrested at Heathrow.

LONDON (Reuters) - British police arrested two men under anti-terrorism laws at London's Heathrow airport on Tuesday, suspecting both to be involved in activities overseas, police sources said.

Mohammed Abushamma and Qasim Abukar, both aged 20 and from north London, would appear in court on Wednesday, a Scotland Yard spokesman said.

He said they were charged with preparing to commit acts of terrorism.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL2290689520080422

Posted by: DP111 at April 22, 2008 6:30 PM

28 days to 42 days? This is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

And Cameron, the Tory leader, plus the Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg are against it being extended to 42 days. They are literally playing with fire, through their desire to play politics. To them and the media hacks, embarrassing the Government is more important than protecting us. Whatever you think of Brown, the alternatives are far worse.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at April 22, 2008 6:46 PM

Meanwhile, comunist Ken Livingstone is hugging the guys who make terrorrist attacks a reality: Muslims

Posted by: Crusader at April 22, 2008 6:48 PM

How disappointing I was led to believe that all Muslims were "peaceful" and that Islam was a "peaceful religion".Oh well another myth busted. The Myth Busters on the Discovery Channel should take up this myth to see if it is true or not

Posted by: Clifford at April 22, 2008 7:29 PM

Evening Folks,,

This is off topic, but on topic (jihad nutters),, at the same time,,

People's Cube, have a new page,, LOL,, I think everyone could use a laugh,,

It's entitled,,

Jimmy Carter's Habitat for Hamas,,

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=1878

this is almost as good as Apple Mecca,

namaste

)0(
solsticewitch13
"don't annoy the bikers"

Posted by: solsticewitch13 at April 22, 2008 7:30 PM

Fred-- Thanks for exploding the since we survived IRA we will survive the jihadists canard. I’ve heard it raised many times since 9/11. Lets not forget that the British, in their haste to boogie out of Ulster, capitulated to the IRA. The IRA successfully used terror to gain power.

I recall Catholic priests, up to and including Pope John Paul II, unconditionally condemning the IRA. Where are the Muslim clerics unconditionally condemning Muslims waging war on their adopted lands?

How many Muslims with valid British passports have entered America in the last 24 hours? Leave aside the malignant spread of Sharia the follows a raising Muslim population, would not drastically restricting Muslim entry into our country enhance our security from just a surveillance and intelligence perspective? Just how do we use the ballet box to compel our elected leaders to do what must be done to secure our boarders and provide for the common defense?

What city do you think good Muslims will nuke first?

Posted by: Ralph127 at April 22, 2008 7:35 PM

Calon Lan: Two points respecting your statements: 1) The IRA, psychopathic organization that it is (anyone who doubts this only need consider what Ireland would look like if the IRA ran it), never wanted to take over Britain. It "merely" wanted the Brits out of Ireland and nothing more. Islamic radicals, however, do want control of Britian and a whole lot more. 2) I would refer you to a quote from Barry Goldwater, longtime Senator from Arizona and Republican Presidential candidate in 1964. He said, and I quote, "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."

Do you not grasp or understand that Islam seeks territorial domination of the entire world in the name of its faith? Do you not comprehend that Islam is the only major religion that justifies the use of force to insure that its creed rules the planet? Islamic radicals are no ordinary enemies. They make the IRA look like the junior varsity. Try waking up and desisting from adhering to abstract principles which, however laudatory when a free nation is dealing with just the ordinary rabble, would, if applied in exigent circumstances, mean the ruination of true freedom as we know it. Time to move on, Carol Lan, to the next level.

Posted by: Wellington at April 22, 2008 9:41 PM

Everybody haul A** over to the Daily Mail article Mr Spencer has linked.

So far it is hot off the press and few comments have appeared: go for it!

Focus your remarks on the necessity to be clear about our terms - that is, that every one of those 15 'terrorist' plots was in fact a JIHAD plot, conducted by MUSLIMS seeking to obey the JIHAD prime directive, as per the perceived instructions of their 'prophet' Muhammad ha-Meshugga. Suggest how the Daily Mail article might have been worded to accurately reflect this fact.

I am quite, quite sure that M15 and the police found no Tibetan Buddhists in Britain cooking up said plots (though the Tibetans in Tibet and W China, in their fully-justifiable fight against the Han Communist imperial invaders and genocide practitioners, have taken a leaf out of the mohammedan play book, in their sheer desperation, and have resorted, I hear, to storing weapons in temples). I am sure that M15 and the police found no Jews, Christians, atheists, Hindus or Sikhs, nor even communists! - plotting to kill large numbers of British citizens as nastily as possible.

Nope. Pious Muslims all, I'll bet, just doing their humble best to live up to the stringent requirements of Quran Surah 9: 5, etc.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 22, 2008 9:45 PM

We watch western civilization crumble before our eyes, and yet, we do nothing. Instead, we egg it on. It doesn't really matter why...no, we are in decline.The late great secular religion of the 20th century has done its damage...socialism. It's going to be steep dive. Hang on.

Posted by: breezy55 at April 23, 2008 12:37 AM

Sir Ian Blair warned that the country was being threatened by dangerous extremists who were emerging from "left field" to attempt terrorist attacks.
== == == == == == ==

Actually, no; not REALLY from "left field". More like "emerging from the ever-growing, non-assimilating Muslim community". The amazing thing is, the UK keeps importing more and more Muslims. Apparently the powers-that-be think if they keep bringing in more and more people who hate the West and denounce its ideals and institutions, suddenly they will reach a tipping point and all these seethers will suddenly become peaceful middle-class citizens.

Not going well so far, though, is it?

Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at April 23, 2008 12:40 AM

No, A_Nonny_Mouse, it isn't. Could I ask a question? What does Nonny mean...Please?

Posted by: breezy55 at April 23, 2008 12:45 AM

"UK Human Rights Watch considers that the current 28 day limit already violates human rights law.“Six weeks of detention without charge isn’t the way to win hearts and minds,” "undermining community relations in Britain and the UK’s image abroad” ."

"The Muslim Council of Britain has told the government that any extension of pre-charge detention is likely to be counterproductive, and damaging to the battle of hearts and minds that Prime Minister Gordon Brown has identified as crucial to combating terrorism effectively".

== == == == == == == ==

I, for one, am REALLY TIRED of worrying about Muslims' "hearts and minds". I worry about their ACTIONS -- I worry that they're going to kill people, blow things up, and intimidate us into accepting their vile "culture".

If they're Muslim, their "hearts and minds" are already focused on Mohammed and Allah, Sharia and the Quran. There's nothing left over for the West.

WHY DOES BRITAIN KEEP IMPORTING PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DESTROY THEIR COUNTRY? This idiocy leaves me shaking my head and muttering under by breath.

Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at April 23, 2008 1:03 AM

What does Nonny mean...Please?
Posted by: breezy55 April 23, 2008 12:45 AM

== == == == ==

A variant on anonymous, except working in a "nonsense" syllable from Shakespearean English ("hey nonny nonny"). Usage similar to fa la la, or shooby-dooby (or ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang if you're of a certain age...)

Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at April 23, 2008 1:17 AM

Thank you for defining that for me. I appreciate it.
I'm of age. I get the reference.

Posted by: breezy55 at April 23, 2008 1:27 AM

Posyed by: KM And the Labor governments new plan to fight this Jihad.....Invite Pakistan back into the Commonwealth and give Jihadists easy access to visas to come to the UK.

Labour are out thier depth and minds.This Jihad Amnesty will result in the same shambles as Nu Labours support for gun amnesty programs. As negative and ignorant as I might come accross as Qur'an dropoff boxes may have better results.

NuLabours cart before the horse plans are simply mind boggling.

Posted by: OLDEngland at April 23, 2008 3:07 AM

@ Wellington and others:

I am wide awake, thank you very much.

I wonder, however, how many of you have grasped the fact that Great Britain is (at the moment) governed by a group of politicians who for the last ten years have facilitated the rise of radical Islam in this country on the one hand, and have a fundamentalist-leftist attitude towards their own, native population?

This government is in cahoots with radical islam - so the crocodile tears about putative terrorist attacks which need to be fought by extending the time people can be held without charge to 42 days don't wash with me.

This selfsame government has reduced the number of police officers across the board, while at the same time burdening them with red tape to an extent that they can hardly do any policing at all.
This is what needs changing in the first instance!

Have you asked yourselves how is it possible for the Spanish Government to deal with and imprison would-be terrorists without this ridiculous 42-days-without-charge in prison?
How do the French, the Italians manage?
You do not think, do you, that they are under a lesser thread?

There have been incidents already where the anti-terror laws as they exist, were used against normal, non-muslim Britons. That is what is in store for us, as it goes hand-in-hand with the 'hate-crime' legislation.

Do you really think that, once they got this extension through parliament, that it will be only radical jihadists who will be imprisoned?
Don't make me laugh! I'll tell you who'll be caught in that net: people like you and me who say 'hateful' things about the ROP. And we do not have the equivalent of a Muslim council to howl about abuse of our human rights ...

This is what one famous American said:
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." (Benjamin Franklin)
It is as true today as it was when he said it.

As for how to fight properly against Islam, may I refer you to this interview:
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=77D37794-BF74-4BD5-9AD4-D8736FDC82BB

There are various ways of fighting Islam and the jihadists. Permitting the state to shred all our civil rights is not the way!

Posted by: Calon Lan at April 23, 2008 6:38 AM

Calon Lan: Thank you for your last response. I am in agreement with what you say concerning the dereliction of so many British politicians in recent years respecting law enforcement (or the lack thereof) and the condescension with which too many British pols have treated the British population at large. But I do not share your fear that those other than Islamic radicals will have their basic liberties significantly impaired by the British government. Many here in America have said the same about the Bush Administration and its enforcement of measures like the Patriot Act, but this is simply not the case and such charges (which still circulate) are the stuff of hysteria and not reality. And I have to wonder just how many "normal, non-Muslim Britons" have indeed been subject to laws designed to thwart the detritus of the human race. Could you provide any figures on this?

I list myself second to none in admiration for Benjamin Franklin, easily one of the shrewdest persons who ever lived, but Franklin didn't live in an age of terrible weaponry and knew little about the totalitarian nature of Islam, at least in any direct sense, because he had the good forture to live in a West before virtually any Muslims populated it. Still, you're correct to point out his warning and it should be kept in mind. But Abraham Lincoln imposed far more restrictions on liberty for average Americans during the Civil War than the present British or American governments have on their citizens and we came through with our freedoms in tact. Exigent circumstances call for extraordinary measures precisely so that liberty will prevail in the long run. Besides, if Brits and Americans would keep in mind something another great American, Thomas Jefferson, said about freedom both peoples should be OK. Jefferson observed that when the government fears the people, you have liberty, but when the people fear the government you have tyranny. Never forgetting this should insure that all Western politicians will not become too comfortable in governing the folks. Meanwhile, though, the West faces an invidious enemy which means to do away with the West as we know it and so as long as the people remain vigilant, I'm ready to cut governments some slack in tracking down an enemy that is a menace to all who love true freedom. My best to you and yours.

Posted by: Wellington at April 23, 2008 12:45 PM

Thank you for your kind answer, and kind wishes, Wellington.

I'll endeavour to give some examples why I am against increasing the powers of the police.

One concerns a member of the Labour Party, an 82year-old Holocaust survivour, who dared to heckle Tony Blair at the annual Labour conference two years ago. He was marched out of the theatre, by police, and held 'under terrorist laws' ...

Another concerns a Christian couple, who wanted to distribute leaflets at a local council's registry office, against same-sex civil marriages. They were accused of propagating hate crime, police came to their house and they had to appear before a magistrate's court.

These are ordinary Britons - but the Terrorist act, and the law against hate crime were used against them.

Recently we had news that a local council spied (i.e. using surveillance, like for terrorists) on a couple to determine if they had lied about living in the catchment area of a particular school. Their crime? They had applied for permission for their son to go there - and that son is three years old ...

The methods which should be used against jihadists, but arent, as that would be against their human rights and could offend them, ae used against ordinary people who haven't committed any crime.

But here are some other voices rejecting this extension, who may carry a bit more weight:

The Director of the Crown Prosecution Service, Sir Ken Macdonald (a Labour appointee) said that he thinks 28 days are sufficient - 'We have managed comfortably with 28 days.'

Sue Hemming, the Head of the Crown Prosecution Service's counter-terrorism division said the need to hold suspected terrorists for longer than 14 (that is: fourteen! Half of what is permissible by law at the moment!) had only been necessary on three occasions since the introduction of the 28-day-law in 2005.

A number of Labour MPs are going to vote against this, and a Labour minister said these numbers 'were plucked out of thin air'.

Yes - a government ought to fear the people, not because some of them can become terrorists, and what amounts to being agents of foreign powers, but because of what the people can do at the ballot box.

Perhaps, as someone who knows the communist regimes during the Cold War quite well, I am extra sensitive when it comes to the state trying to abuse its powers.
I am also mindful of the power of the ordinary man and woman on the street: they cannot be fooled in the long run, and once they stand up then any government will indeed have more reason to fear them, than any other power.

I will never forget the uprisings in Hungary in 1956, and I will never forget the people on the march all over what was then Eastern, Communist Germany in 1989.
They shouted to their Government: 'WE are the people!' - and slowly but surely the people of Great Britain are getting to that point as well.

Thank you again - and thank you all who write here on this site. It is our duty to act as multipliers to get the message about jihad to as many people as we can, anywhere - in Europe, the USA, India.

(And - as I'm in a slightly poetic mood, don't forget: its always darkest before daybreak, but daybreak there certainly will be!)

Posted by: Calon Lan at April 23, 2008 2:47 PM

Calon Lan

Glad to see you're not a closet dimmi and I appreciate and endorse your comments in your last post but reiterate there is no comparison between the IRA situation and Islamists.

Regarding our liberties I sometimes wonder if there are any left to lose. I am not a member the BNP and never have been but in our free liberal society the way the members of that party are been treated has been openly described as political persecution.

An organisation I had not previously heard of called the Libertarian Alliance has drawn attention to the treatment of its members here,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A21085427

But the most relevant extract from this article is,

“Its known members are losing their jobs in public bodies up and down the country. It has trouble getting its material printed. Banks are being persuaded to close its accounts. The legal machinery is in place to deny it access to the ballot in elections.

Mr Cobain’s articles (in the 'Guardian') must be seen as part of this attempted destruction of a political party. Let it become known that middle class supporters will be named and have their careers destroyed, and party membership will not proceed far beyond the working classes. Let it be made effectively impossible for any middle class person to stand as a BNP candidate, and the only candidates will be criminals and fools, who can then be held up as a reason not to vote BNP”

Add to this that I belong to a small speaking club where politics are not only not discussed but absolutely banned however unknown to us one of our members belonged to the BNP. Consequently we were infiltrated by “anti-fascists” from the government funded “Searchlight” organisation who outed the said member in our local paper. As a result he left the club and was obliged to leave the family business which was heavily dependent on health service work, I had a long standing he invitation to address a Rotary Club on “The life and times of a building manager” withdrawn and another member found their application to join the Police was ignored despite being very well qualified.

When our local paper published a perfectly factual but negative story about "Our Asian Community" it received a visit from the Race Relations Board that left its management in a state of shock. They were told "We can close this paper down and if you ever publish a story like that again, we will."

I agree with what you say about the misuse of anti terror laws but in this situation what difference does it make if it is 28 days 42 days? If we do not toe the PC line they can do what they want to us already.

Posted by: Fred at April 23, 2008 5:47 PM

I refuse to submit...betting to die standing up than to die on your knees..

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 23, 2008 6:16 PM

"Does anyone know where I can find out the intended dates of these attacks?

Posted by: astuddis"

either talk to the suspects or call AL-Qaeda central before 8:00 Mecca Mean Time...but do not be disappointed if they refuse to tell you anything ..they are too busy denying everything..after denying is in the Al-Qaeda field manual..(documented and verified as an authentic Islamic instruction).

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 23, 2008 8:50 PM

Calon Lan: I think you and I in basic agreement on overall strategy, though we may differ here and there on tactics. I would only add the following: 1) Too bad we live in the age of political correctness and multiculturalism, both entirely inventions of the Left, because otherwise laws and regulations enacted to protect us from Islamic terror would not be misused by government liberals (or wussy conservatives) to charge and punish ordinary folk espousing traditional ideas that run counter to group Left-think. Again, it should be clear to all reasonable people that modern Western liberalism is a gigantic and suicidal idiocy masquerading as enlightenment. 2) I would strongly argue the case that Islam is the most menacing totalitarian ideology of all time, in part because it hides behind its religious veil, in part because it's not quite as rotten as other totalitarian ideologies like Marxism and Nazism (due to Judeo-Christian and Zoroastrian principles found within it-----among other outrages committed by Mohammed is the fact that he plagiarized extensively from previous creeds and yet castigated them at the same time), thus fooling sundry folk for this reason alone, and in part because invoking the deity on one's side is a powerful persuasive for many.

Again, may I thank you for the civilized give and take we have had. Your input is quite worthy of consideration and I know you share with me and so many of those who post here at JW the love of freedom so brilliantly pioneered by the West, though unfortunatley it is taken for granted by way too many and will be undermined by radical Muslims if we give them the opportunity. So long for now.

Posted by: Wellington at April 23, 2008 9:02 PM

Wellington -

re love of freedom: a bit of historic and cultural information from the Australians here, for our American friends and others who might not know.

Tomorrow, Australian time, Friday 25 April, which also happens to be St Mark's Day, Australians will celebrate Anzac Day.

On that day, all over Australia, groups of people will rise at dawn and gather quietly around war memorials, large and small, and remember all those from their suburb, or their town, or their district, who went to war - from the River War in the Sudan against the mad Mahdi and his jihadis, to the Boer War, the Great War, the Second World War, Korea, Malaya, Vietnam...We will remember those who survived, and those who died, all who fought for our freedom.

At dawn on 25 April 1915 a combined force of Australians and New Zealanders landed at Gallipoli and fought the Turkish Muslims with great courage and fierceness. One of my great-great-uncles, an ambulance officer, was in that first landing. I know what it was like, because he kept a diary, which I have read.

The Anzacs lost that particular battle - they had to retreat, after months of terrible fighting - but it was Australians, in the 'Palestine' campaign, who helped defend the Suez Canal, and helped roll back the Ottoman Empire from what would, 34 years later, become the State of Israel. Many who fought the Turks, but did not prevail, at Gallipoli, later fought the Turks and the Germans and the Bedouin 'ghouls of the battlefield', east of Egypt, from Suez to Damascus, and prevailed.

After the dawn ceremony, which recalls that dawn landing on the beach at Gallipoli, there will be marches in every city and town - by old soldiers and the not-so-old, and sometimes their descendants.

Wannabe jihadis in Australia should beware. Iraq and Afghanistan are not the first occasion upon which Australian fighting men have had to do with jihadi fanatics (and the fathers and grandfathers of today's soldiers knew about fanaticism, they went into battle against the fanatical Nazis and the equally fanatical soldiers of Imperial Nippon, kamikazes and all). Our historic memory is mostly sleeping, like red hot coals banked under ash for the night; but each Anzac Day we remind ourselves it is there. When we wake up, and realize that we have to defend ourselves, our homes, our laws and our freedoms against the Third Jihad, the embers will kindle a bushfire.

The great-grandsons and great-grand-nephews of the men who charged the Turkish trenches at Beersheba in 1917, will know what to do, once they know what they have to fight, and why.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 24, 2008 3:57 AM

15 and that is only the number they will reveal to you at this time...wouldn't want to create a panic...don't you know...

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 24, 2008 5:51 AM

dumbledoresarmy: Thanks for your last post. The quality of the Australian fighting man is known throughout the world. Man for man he has been about as good as one gets. No American like myself will ever forget that. Cheers to you and yours and may Australia, like America, remain forever untainted by Islamic law.

Posted by: Wellington at April 24, 2008 6:34 AM

Just a small reminder - terrorism is just a tactic to soften us up to further demands by "moderate Muslims".

The real threat though is the demographic one. With huge birth rates, and the never ending family unification visas, it wont be long before there is a "British Muslim Party" (BMP), with an outright majority in parliament - sharia is then inevitable.

Posted by: DP111 at April 24, 2008 5:47 PM

"and the never ending family unification visas,..."

as stupid a policy as ever there was one..

Posted by: pulsar182 at April 24, 2008 9:00 PM