What would happen if Israel lay down its weapons today....Holocaust!

Now imagaine what would happen today if the Palestinians/Hamas lay down their weapons....Peace!

Posted by: z4hos at April 30, 2008 1:49 PM

An Israeli described these "palestinian" ceasefires as:

"We cease - they fire."

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 30, 2008 1:51 PM

And the seige goes on, and on, and on, and on.........for how many years now?

How can we, who are relatively safe over here in the United States, even begin to understand how this relentless seige has affected the national psyche of the Israelis, and their will to survive?

By my count, this has gone on since, what, 1967? That's forty-plus years. Can you imagine Mexicans or Canadians beseiging our border cities with rockets and mortar fire, not to mention our interior cities with suicide bombers, for FORTY YEARS?

It's truly amazing that the Israelis have hung on this long. What now, America?

Posted by: INFIDELATLARGE at April 30, 2008 2:38 PM

P.S.

We've only been in this War for nearly seven years now - and look how our will to continue the fight has already been eroded by the many facets of the jihad, not to mention the inability of our Commander In Chief and his subordinates to come to grips with the doctrines and tenets of mainstream Islam.

Posted by: INFIDELATLARGE at April 30, 2008 2:45 PM

By my count, this has gone on since, what, 1967? That's forty-plus years.

The terrorism against Israel began even before 1967. Back then, as now, the West Bank and Gaza were used to launch terror attacks against Israel. In those days, "Occupied Palestine" was not the West Bank or Gaza, but Israel in its pre-6/1967 borders. In other words, Infidelatlarge, it's even worse than you say.

Can you imagine Mexicans or Canadians beseiging our border cities with rockets and mortar fire, not to mention our interior cities with suicide bombers, for FORTY YEARS?

Mexicans have a different strategy. It's called "illegal immigration". Or "influx of undocumented immigrants" to the open-borders crowd.

Posted by: Bigfoot at April 30, 2008 2:48 PM

Ceasefire only means that the other side has to stop shooting so that they can aim properly. It is so inconvenient when Israel fires back.

Lets have a UN resolution no 3,549,956,275,304 against Israel. ( the number last week was 2,672,363,580,831) Why else do you think the UN costs so much and achieves do little!

Posted by: James at April 30, 2008 2:54 PM

It's truly amazing that the Israelis have hung on this long. What now, America?
Posted by: INFIDELATLARGE

---

Actually I think the amazing thing is that they haven't simply expelled all the "palestinians" from Judea and Samaria as well as Gaza.

What is even more amazing is that they gave back the Sinai to Egypt.. and are getting ready to hand back the Golans.

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 30, 2008 3:47 PM

If we are lucky, the cease fire will last about 48 hrs. Perfect for a TV program by the same name.

When was the last time anyone remembers 12 "groups" sitting around a Table ever agreed to anything?

12 Groups=Hamas??? Might as well expect Hell to freeze over.

The Alphabet Soup of Journalism will love it. They can always find a reason Israel deserves a Shelling or Two.

Does anyone really think Israel will enjoy it's 60th. Birthday without the Neighbors lighting their own Candles?

Olmert needs a good Clint Eastwood moment with Hamas. Then Israel could really have a Party.

Posted by: flowerknife_us at April 30, 2008 3:58 PM

Look, so long as you look for approval from the rest of the world, you are doomed to lose. The US and its allies should act in their self interest. Send these immigrants back to to the sands they come from. After all, what have they brought with them but trouble? As for Israel, time to grow some cojones. Then again if the Dems get into power in the white house, one can only expect more carter style bigotry.

Posted by: lonewolf at April 30, 2008 3:58 PM

Palestine is a myth.

Posted by: AnneCrockett at April 30, 2008 4:19 PM

Call this a bit hard-line but i think Israel should stop having to constantly pander to the west's wishes regarding peace with these people. they don't want peace, they constantly attack civilians and provoke attacks in return and what happens? everyone then makes Israel out to be the "bad guy" when all it is doing is defending itself and it's citizens. of course there are those that cry "what about the palistinian children killed by Israeli tanks / planes....again i cant blame Israel for that because the likes of Hamas use their own people as human shields...so what choice does that leave? either endure these attacks or retaliate at the risk of not only harming children who are put there by the same people that are meant to protect them, but also condemnation from the west. its a catch 22 situation!

They should just annex the whole place and sort it out and to hell with what the rest of the world says, as this has gone on long enough and i am all out of sympathy for the Palestinians.

Posted by: Sm0kA at April 30, 2008 4:47 PM

Palestine is a myth.

Posted by: AnneCrockett

Isn't that the truth:

http://www.imninalu.net/myths-pals.htm

Posted by: champ at April 30, 2008 5:22 PM

Here's an idea for Geert's next film: 'Hudna-The Movie'

Posted by: Shakey_Premise at April 30, 2008 5:27 PM

INFIDELATLARGE said

We've only been in this War for nearly seven years now...

Tell that to Thomas Jefferson. Due to the oceans surrounding us, we haven't been as intimately familiar with jihad as say India, Lebanon, or Israel, but we haven't been safe from jihad either. Our country suffers from an unfortunate case of memory loss. There was the attack on the USS Cole in 2000, the U.S. Embassy bombings in Tanzania in 1998, the FIRST bombing of the WTC in 1993, the bombing of the Marine barracks in 1983, and I don't know how many hijackings by the P.L.O. and others in the 1970's and 1980's. There was the murder of Robert Stethem, Leon Klinghoffer, and William Buckley, and many more than I could think of off the top of my head.

And this is just attacks on the U.S. and Americans, before 2001.

This also doesn't include terrorist attacks that were possibly jihad-related, such as the murder of Robert Kennedy by "Palestinian" Sirhan Sirhan (he was supposedly not a Muslim, but was angry about U.S. support for Israel), and the deliberate crashing of Egypt Air Flight 990.

This didn't start seven years ago, and the U.S. is not the only, or even the main, victim of the almost 1400 year old jihad. India can count her casualties in the millions. We've gotten off lucky, so far.

I also optimistically disagree with the idea that the American peoples' support for the anti-jihad is going down. True, it has been botched beyond belief the past few decades, but I have to believe that if/when an American President explains to the U.S. citizens what the jihad is and what we need to do to protect ourselves from it, the people will be very willing to do what is necessary (as long as it is not described as "Let's go into our good friend and ally Iran or Pakistan and save the vast majority of moderates from the few extremists, and let's stay until they follow Judeo-Christian values, no matter how many of our soldiers' lives are lost, and no matter how much we spend building their infrastructure", or similar rubbish). I think we're just getting started.

Posted by: special_guest at April 30, 2008 5:36 PM

Hamas wants a cease-fire. They must really be hurting then. When the Muslim asks for a cease-fire it is ALWAYS from a position of weakness.

Now is the time for Israel to strike and strike hard. Finish the job and destroy them!

Posted by: Mystical Time Traveler at April 30, 2008 7:14 PM

As I was re-reading the New York Times best selling classic "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters the following quote stood out:

Reflecting on the oil weapon's influence in the aftermath of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Al-Ayubi shrewdly observed:

The nations of western Europe condemned Israel's position despite their guarantee of her security and territorial integrity. They understood that European interests and their dependence upon sources of energy precluded their allowing themselves to incur Arab wrath. Thus Al-Ayubi recommended sham "peace-talks," with the continuation, however, of the "state of 'no peace,'" and he advocated the maintaining of "moral pressure together with carefully-balanced military tension. . ." for the "success of the new Arab strategy." Because "loss of human life remains a sore point for the enemy," continual "guerrilla" activities can erode Israel's self-confidence and "the faith" of the world in the "Israeli policeman."

Al-Ayubi cited, as an example, "the success of Arab foreign policy maneuvers" in 1973, which was so total . . .With the exception of the United States and the racist African governments, the entire world took either a neutral or pro-Arab position on the question of legality of restoring the occupied territories through any means--including the use of military force. As Al-Ayubi noted, "The basic Arab premise concerning 'the elimination of the results of aggression' remains accepted by the world." Thus the "noose" will be placed around the neck of the "Zionist entity." But the Arabs' creation of the "myth" of nationality did not create the advantageous situation for the Palestinian Arabs that Musa Alami had hoped for. Instead, the conditions he complained of bitterly were perpetuated: the Arabs "shut the door" of citizenship "in their faces and imprisoned them in camps."

Khaled Al-Azm, who was Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war, deplored the Arab tactics and the subsequent exploitation of the refugees, in his 1972 memoirs:

Since 1958 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees...while it is we who made them leave...We brought disaster upon Arab refugees, by inviting them dispossessed...We have accustomed them to begging . . .We have participated in lowering their moral and social level...Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon . . .men, women, and children - all this in the service of political purposes . . .

Propaganda has successfully veered attention away from the Arab world's manipulation of its peoples among the refugee group on the one hand, and the number of those who now in fact possess Arab citizenship in many lands, on the other hand. The one notable exception is Jordan, whre the majority of Arab refugees moved, and where they are entitled to citzenship according to law, "unless they are Jews."

Posted by: justamomof4 at April 30, 2008 7:33 PM

This is an absolute modus operandi...when Islamic terrorist groups splinter in order to play "good cop, bad cop".

The Moro National Liberation Front waged war on the Philippine government in the 70s and 80s. The Philippinos sued for peace, the MNFL was brought into the political process and began governing southern Mindinao as an autonomous region, and lo and behold, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front was born, to carry on the armed struggle.

The splinter group is portrayed as a breakaway faction, but is in reality more often than not just an extension of the original movement...a conduit for it to wage war after having made peace.

For years, Fatah swore off armed struggle as it "negotiated" with the Israelis, while at the same time refusing to clamp down on Hamas, which continued the campaign of terror. The two groups - at least then - were working hand and glove, while Fatah could always maintain plausible deniability.

There will always be the Islamic "breakaway faction" to continue Jihad whenever "peace" is negotiated, in the Middle East or elsewhere. But illusions die hard.

Posted by: Cornelius at April 30, 2008 7:38 PM

Cornelius -

I think you've nailed it. I've been coming to similar conclusions. Call it pattern recognition. Factor in the 'permission to deceive' that's there in the sacred texts of Islam, and you've got it.

The Ummah has goodcop/badcop and 'plausible deniability' down to a fine art. Starting with 'Meccan' verses vs. 'Medina' verses, and proceeding from there.

'Peaceful' and 'moderate' Muslims vs. 'terrorist' and 'extremist' Muslims.

It seriously messes with the minds of those who have to deal with it, longterm - unless they make a serious effort to keep a cool head about them.

This brings us to 'Time Traveller''s posting.

Right on.

If from reading their own playbook, we know that they only sing out for a 'truce' if they feel weak and need timeout to reload/ rearm (while hoping, of course, that their deluded 'treaty partner' will believe their promises and not spend the time bargained for, doing likewise), then the obvious thing for all Infidels EVERYWHERE and ALWAYS, be they the IDF or the Filipino or Indian or Thai or Ethiopian army, fighting Muslims, to do, is to use the 'hudna! hudna!' cry as THE signal to go right in and hit harder.

No matter what it may cost you at the time; no matter how much you yourself may be feeling battered and bruised, how much you yourself may want a 'timeout' too; if the Muslim opponent you are currently fighting starts talking 'treaty', 'peace talks' and 'negotiations', just say NOTHING and give the troops the signal. Once they're beaten, don't 'negotiate' - just dictate terms from a position of absolute strength, while grimly understanding that they will do their level best to slither out from under those terms, the moment they get the chance.

If Muslims refuse to make, or keep, permanent treaties with Infidels then the only prudent course of action for Infidels that I can see, under such circumstances, is to return the compliment and let the jihadis know that we do not trust them, we will never trust them, and that we will not make agreements of any kind with them, period; and that we will certainly NOT give up anything of value to us, in return for promises that we know to be worthless.

(Oh, and whenever they want to talk to us, we will have the proceedings videoed and then analysed afterward by persons who have been trained in the art of face reading, as described by Malcolm Gladwell in his book 'Blink', chapter 6, 'seven seconds in the bronx'. Gladwell there describes the work of Silvan Tomkins and Paul Ekman, who together invented the Facial Action Coding System/ FACS.

Crucial point: no matter how good we are at lying, what we are really thinking/feeling underneath 'leaks' out as what might be called 'micro-expressions', through what Ekman dubs 'the involuntary expression system'. Tomkins indeed once began a lecture by bellowing - "the face is like the p***s!".

Video someone - play it back slowly, frame by frame - and you'll catch the fleeting moments when the suppressed anger, or contempt, or whatever, 'leak' out. Really good doctors, psychologists, grandmas, and doubtless, security interrogators, may be able to 'read' those flickering 'micro-expressions' without consciously knowing that they're doing it. But it can be learned. I would advise all Infidel regimes to get to work training experts in FACS, for use in all dealings with Muslims!).

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 30, 2008 10:16 PM

From above: Crucial point: no matter how good we are at lying, what we are really thinking/feeling underneath 'leaks' out as what might be called 'micro-expressions', through what Ekman dubs 'the involuntary expression system'. Tomkins indeed once began a lecture by bellowing - "the face is like the p***s!"

Having worked in California's, USA, state mental
hospitals for over twenty years, I can confirm the value of being able to read 'micro expressions, body language, voice inflections, eye mannerisms etc.
This is not taught(there) but it 'is' learned. Your life may depend on this kind of reading. I got good at it. I am still good at it. I always know when someone is lying if I can see or hear them. I also know when it is time to duck, before it's time to duck, by these same observations. Of course doing something about the lie, depends on the severity of the lie. People lie about small stuff all the time.
"All fishermen are liars, except you and me, and I'm not so sure about you'. 'How big did you say that fish was'? The best way to lie, is to tell the truth except for the most important parts.
There is no strain in the true parts but readable strain starts with the lie. Youtube gives lots of opportunities, and practice to catch liars and those with dubious intent. I can read them like a book. It's sort of like riding a bicycle, once you know how to spot liars, or those trying to conceal something, you never forget...

Posted by: duh_swami at April 30, 2008 11:43 PM

duh_swami -

I can completely relate to what you're saying, because I can spot a liar a mile away too. My husband says I have the "gift of suspicion", which is why he thinks I should work for the FBI...lol!! He actually nags me about it because I have a passion for catching the 'bad guys', which might explain my interest in JW. Ya think!

Islam is full of bad guys, that's for sure.

Religion of peace my ______!!

Posted by: champ at May 1, 2008 1:25 AM

Champ...You don't fish do you?? Just kidding :)

Posted by: duh_swami at May 1, 2008 1:30 AM

Ha Ha! Used to! Seriously, my Dad owed a sport fisher, and we used to fish for marlin ALL the time. You should have seen the one that got away! LOL!!

Posted by: champ at May 1, 2008 1:33 AM

....it was like 90' long!!! No kidding!! Maybe even 100' long! :-D

Posted by: champ at May 1, 2008 1:35 AM

OT...Champ...I went out in a fishing boat once. From SF bay out to near the Farallon Islands. The ocean is so rough normally there, they named it 'The Potato Patch'. That's where we parked. The boat was bobbing around like a small cork. I got sea sick ten mins out from the Golden Gate. I spent the entire ten hours at sea in the head. The only time I left is when one of the fishermen wanted to use it. Boy did they laugh at me. Well that ended my fishing boat career. Only bank fishing after that. I never get sea sick standing on the bank of a river...)

Posted by: duh_swami at May 1, 2008 1:57 AM

Ha Ha! That's no fun, duh_swami! I never got sea sick, but I can't fly without wanting to______! Ew!

Posted by: champ at May 1, 2008 2:25 AM

On you tube they had a clip showing the staged scenes " Israelies " attacks on the Palestine people.Who came up with that idea ?
The media always let us see if people from Palestine get hurt, but seldom if the Israelies get blown up to bits and pieces.
They never should have given up the Gaza Strip.
They will keep on asking for more. And look how it looks now, that beautiful place Israelies created in the Gaza strip.I felt so sad when they had to leave their homes, the place they created trying to live in peace.
In what part of the world are the Muslims welcomed???

Posted by: Maria at May 1, 2008 2:31 AM

Maria said

In what part of the world are the Muslims welcomed???

Washington D.C. and London. I hope that will change soon.

Posted by: special_guest at May 1, 2008 3:30 AM

The wars of the future will be won by those with the greater strength of will. And boundless determination is one weapon that Islamist extremists unquestionably possess.

Posted by: InfidelK9 at May 1, 2008 6:34 AM

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts and muslims bearing peace!

Posted by: David England at May 1, 2008 6:54 AM

The good cop/bad cop scenario discussed above is very, very insightful and rings true.

Posted by: Eastview at May 1, 2008 7:34 AM