So this confused young lad wants to circumcise himself? I say, go for it!

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at May 8, 2008 5:46 AM

Canadian jihadwatchers - there must be someone reading this who is a Canadian living in Toronto - should be writing Letters to the Editor of the 'Globe and Mail', sharing with them what Mr Spencer has just told us, above, in his closing remarks on the article, namely:

"Traditionally Islam has no respect for any criminal-justice system except Sharia, save for limited self-government granted to dhimmi communities. Thus while many Muslims in Western countries are generally taught that they should obey the laws of that country for a time, they're also taught a contempt for those laws and the need ultimately to replace them with Sharia. It is, then, no surprise at all that this young jihadist wouldn't recognize Canadian law."

Then back it up with the ipsissima verba of Muslim preachers teaching exactly that contempt for kafir law. I think Sayyid Qutb puts it pretty clearly:

"[T]he foremost duty of Islam in this world is to depose jahiliyya from the leadership of man, and to take the leadership into its own hands and enforce the [Islamic] way of life’. 
Sayyid Qutb [doyen of the Ikhwan al-Muslimun], Milestones, Mother Mosque Foundation, New York, 1979, p. 131.

All you have to do is explain that this is completely orthodox Islamic religio-political teaching, and that jahiliyya stands for EVERYTHING that is not-Islam - e.g. Canadian law and government, English common law, First Nations customary law, you name it, if it's not Muslim, in Muslim eyes it's not only invalid but scheduled for annihilation as soon as Muslims have sufficient power.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at May 8, 2008 5:55 AM

Lots of Al-Hindys in this story. Al-Hindy usually means the Muslim is from India or is of Hindu background. Like this punk on trial. Bet he made his mom and dad real happy by freaking out and going Muslim. Now they regret allowing him to socialize with Muslism school friends from the (same) sub-continent

Jamaicans in Britain love to *go* Muslism and so do too many Hindus. Enhanced Stockholm Syndrome

Posted by: dennisw at May 8, 2008 7:03 AM

The psychically marginal are always with us. Sometimes they join this cult, and sometimes that.

The leaders of a well-ordered society try to minimize the number of those psychically marginal, by at least attempting to remedy obvious injustices, and speaking sense, but they also know that every society must offer not one way, but a multitude of competing ways, to Soak Up Stupidity (and anomie, alienation, boredom) so that these inevitable by-products of mass idiotized democracy are not all channeled in one dangerous, goose-stepping direction.

Unfortunately, Islam has come along -- you didn't think Muslims allowed to settle in the Western world would cease their Da'wa efforts, did you? -- and it is now, in many places, no longer a way-station but a final mental resting-place for those pscyhically marginal, the ones searching for a Total System, or a Complete Explanation of the Universe, something that will divide the entire universe of bewildering possibilities into what is prohibited and what commanded.

Converts to Islam come in another variety. Those who need or are pleased to find an ideological cover and justification for their Schelerian ressentiment and hostility to The Man, Amerikka, The System, Kapitalism, you name it, will find that Islam gives a form to their free-floating hatreds and even justifies their law-breaking. Islam, thus, provides mind-forged manacles for those who want or need them (the psychically marginal) and an instantaneous (just add Qur'an, and mix) Community of Believers who appear to provide a (false) society to replace a sometimes difficult-to-fashion-or-find-or-discern true one, and a justification of attitudes and behavior that otherwise would be unacceptable.

Posted by: Hugh at May 8, 2008 7:09 AM

Is Canada only one step away from cases like this never coming to trial?

It is definitely a mistake when you allow a second judicial system to operate in your country, 1st you allow them to judge themselves and 2nd they will take over your judicial system..
bet on it.

If Muslims cannot live by your countries lasws and want Sharia law..let them live in a Muslim Country that uses it - can you say Pakistan or Iran maybe.

"Canada prepares to enforce Islamic law
Judges will give legal sanction to disputes between Muslims

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 28, 2003
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

Canadian judges soon will be enforcing Islamic law, or Sharia, in disputes between Muslims, possibly paving the way to one day administering criminal sentences, such as stoning women caught in adultery.
Muslims are required to submit to Sharia in Muslim societies but are excused in nations where they live as a minority under a non-Muslim government.

Delegates elect council to set up Islamic Institute of Civil Justice (Canadian Law Times)

Canada, however, is preparing for its 1 million-strong Muslim minority to be under the authority of a Sharia system enforced by the Canadian court system, according to the Canadian Law Times.

Muslim delegates at a conference in Etobicoke, Ont., in October elected a 30-member council to establish the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice.

The institute is classified in Islamic law as a Darul-Qada, or judicial tribunal. Its bylaws are scheduled to be drafted and approved by Dec. 31.

Cases will be decided by a Muslim arbitrator, but the local secular Canadian court will be the enforcer.

One of the obstacles to establishing the system, the Law Times said, has been the Muslim communities' lack of unity and organizational strength. Muslims in Canada come from many different countries and different schools of Islam. Also, there are few Islamic legal scholars, known as ulama, in North America, which are essential to adjudicating complex issues.

"It seems as if the community was looking forward to something like this," says organizer B. Husain Bhayat, according to the Law Times. "If all groups are represented, with hard work and the unity we saw here, we will have no difficulty going forward."

The two main streams of Islam, Sunni and Shi'ite, were represented at the conference, along with imams and leaders of organizations."

Posted by: pulsar182 at May 8, 2008 7:45 AM

Hugh -

that is brilliant.

I must confess I have not yet read the whole of the Sira, nor mustered the energy to wade through the deeper swamps of the Hadith, but such portions of both as I have encountered suggest to me that your description of the two main groups who today, in the West, choose Islam, also applies quite nicely to the original Ubul Qassim alias 'muhammad', and his original followers. The 'prophet', Ha-Meshugga, of course fits under Category B.

One might also note that, once inside Islam, the members of Category A, the psychically marginal submitters, will find themselves being trampled upon by those who belong to Category B, the sociopathically inclined dominators.

In general the women who join Islam belong to A and the men, to B (since to some extent women in Islam are programmed to fit the A profile, and men, the B) but this is not automatic.

If anyone here recalls the Australian documentary, 'Jihad Sheilas', which looked at two Euro-Australian women who had converted to Islam, one of them clearly belonged to the 'A' category, psychically marginal, something of a naive doormat or stray dog hopefully looking for a home; but the other, the one in full burqa, who gave off some truly nasty vibes, fitted your second category, the resentful.

It is all highly unpleasant.

The ideology of Islam seems to be set up so as to actively attract a very wretched type of recruit; and then, among those born within its bounds, to actively validate those who fit the same miserable template, while crushing, corrupting and distorting, or even altogether destroying, those creative and lively souls that are welcomed in other, saner societies.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at May 8, 2008 8:18 AM

"Those who need or are pleased to find an ideological cover and justification for their Schelerian ressentiment and hostility to The Man, Amerikka, The System, Kapitalism, you name it, will find that Islam gives a form to their free-floating hatreds and even justifies their law-breaking."

This is exactly the explanation I gave to several friends of the current (and probably historical as well) popularity of Muslim conversion, especially in prisons...minus Hugh's eloquence.

Basically, it give the Sociopath sanction to do what he's always wanted to do. He can justify all sorts of misbehavior as fighting for the umma, and for Allah.

Posted by: Godefroi at May 8, 2008 8:37 AM

Hugh, I remember my father describing Kuwait to me, during the first Gulf war: ALL those people are freakin' nuts. I was astonished, and said, You mean to tell me that the entire country of Kuwait is insane, clinically insane? No, he said, Islam. Islam is what makes them insane.
That was in 91. I was certain that my father was a bigot, and I rebelled, becoming very sympathetic to Muslim causes...turns out he was right after all!
I hate the taste of crow.

Posted by: Jewel Atkins at May 8, 2008 9:15 AM

"Jamaicans in Britain love to *go* Muslism and so do too many Hindus" --dennisw

Is that the same as "going postal?"

Posted by: darcy at May 8, 2008 9:20 AM

Hugh, I enjoyed your use of "mind-forged manacles" from William Blake's poem, "London." I thought perhaps other JW's would be interested, too:

http://mural.uv.es/crisroin/analysis_of_the_poem.htm

Posted by: darcy at May 8, 2008 9:32 AM

I live close to 'Salahudin' mosque. Its next to a Catholic Church. Guess they wanted to name it 'Salahudin' to celebrate 'Salahudin Ayubi' who murdered so many Christians.
Mosques are cropping up in Scarborough and Mississauga with Saudi money while Saudis dont allow any church to be build in their country.

Posted by: Crusader at May 8, 2008 10:03 AM

You can't "walk out" of a trial. That's why we have bailiffs. It doesn't matter if an old book claims that the Law is subordinate to Sharia "law" and your mullah agrees. You'll still subject to the Law (caps on purpose). Get over yourself. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Posted by: tanstaafl at May 8, 2008 10:23 AM

I was wondering when this was going to happen. It was very apparent to me that anyone who allows muslims to practice sharia law within their country that has their own set of laws that work just fine have not read sharia law.

Now, I figured that lying is common among criminals anyway - no matter how often they swear to tell the truth and their lawyers are only concerned with getting them off the hook and not looking for justice if they are guilty - it is just that we also get a book that a religion is based after that sanctions lying - so that book should NEVER be allowed to have anyone swear upon. Especially since it also calls for our deaths if we don't convert or subjugate to them.

I think that we are going to be in for a very bumpy ride from here on out even in our own country and the more countries such as Canada, Europe, etc keep acquiescing to muslim demands - the more we will be left on our own.

Posted by: R_not at May 8, 2008 10:27 AM

@Crusader:

I live on a short diagonal from the Darul Uloom mosque. It's less than 1/8 of a mile from the Methodist church, and the Buddhist temple, which is across the street from the Methodists.

Is your mosque as much a beehive of activity as mine? When I come home from work, I wonder what they're all up to, at 10pm... (Never let it be said that I'm not paranoid--I am.)

Back to the topic, sort of... I've been looking around on the internet and pondering whether or not self-circumcision is not self-injury, and a pre-suicidal condition.

Evidently, it isn't. There are do-it-yourself kits out there (mostly of Korean manufacture). Doctors don't recommend them, of course. The risk of infection is a big factor in self circumcision.

Posted by: Abscedere at May 8, 2008 10:29 AM

From above: Basically, it give the Sociopath sanction to do what he's always wanted to do.

I prefer the old fashion name 'psychopath'. Years ago, early PC artists invaded the mental health system. One of the first things they did was to change names of conditions. 'Psychopaths' became 'sociopaths', 'insane asylums' became 'hospitals',
'mentally retarded', or 'deficient' people became developmentally disabled, 'manic depressive' became 'bi-polar', 'dementia precox' became schizophrenia, 'inmates' became 'patients' who later became 'clients'. Yep, insanity is not as simple as it used to be. Now we have to add religious insanity, which has always existed by mostly overlooked, or ignored. There is plenty of religious insanity to go around. Islam does not have a corner on that market, and muslims remind us of that constantly.
In an institutional setting it is not a diagnosis that is treated. It is behavior that gets treated. No one cares what you think or what your pet theories are, but they do care what you do.
'Doing' will be dealt with'. Islam 'requires' muslims to 'do' some things that are socially, religiously, or personally offensive, or even dangerous to non muslims. If all muslims did was pray, pay zakat, and study Islam, no one would care, but Islam is structured to do a good deal more than that. It compels believers , not to suspend, but to surrender, their conscience. Never to be returned by Allah. But they get to keep the part that pertains to Islam and other muslims.
To those there is great morality. So when muslims interact with dar al-harb, morality is not possible, and not desired. Dar al-harb will not be defeated by morality, but by the sword of the psychopath wielding it with no remorse, no conscience, and for Allah. Imam Hannibal Lecter.
He appears a lot on youtube and Al-jazeera...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 8, 2008 10:44 AM

duh_swami - I was wondering when someone else would notice the connection between "sociopathic" behavior and the treatment of infidels.

Islam requires moral behavior of Muslim men towards other Muslim men. There seems to be no such restrictions on behavior towards the residents of dar al-harb. Sickening behavior towards infidels, dhimmis and women is the result.

If you were a sociopath, I do not think that you could design a better system to ensure the preservation of your anti-social behavior and world view.

Posted by: tanstaafl at May 8, 2008 11:04 AM

Jihad suspect tries to walk out of his own trial, saying he doesn't recognize Canadian law

Authorities are treating it, of course, as a sign that he may be unbalanced.
.............................

Of course, this will be misunderstood. Here's something else likely to be misunderstood as well:

". . . the court was discussing the young man's mental status, including whether he was suicidal."

Westerners regard "the suicidal" as despondent and possibly mentally disturbed. "Suicidal", as in likely to carry out a "suicide bombing", is something else altogether. It may involve the death of the perpetrator, but it is in every way--intent, psychology--more akin to pure homicide than suicide.

Even though Westerners have become--sadly--more familiar with this phenomenon, this point seems to have eluded many. The attempt to rename the act "homicide bombing", though a bit redundant, has been an attempt to address this. It hasn't really caught on widely, though.

So many in that courtroom are likely to think that the defendent is insane, and not responsible for his actions. The fact that he is talking about circumcising himself will likely be the clincher.

The fact is that all these aspects--the refusal to recognize non-Shari'ah law, the "suicidal" tendencies, the circumcision plans, the terrorist plot itself--can all be explained through an adherance to the defendant's new religion.

Posted by: gravenimage at May 8, 2008 11:06 AM

-put a collar around his ankle:

-he's already got one around his neck and it's called islam.

-he's a lost benighted fool

Posted by: dgene at May 8, 2008 11:23 AM

I'm actually surprised that this young convert isn't on trial for murdering his parents for insulting muhammed (piss be upon him).

So this sharia law between two muslims, is it going to absolve a father from murdering his daughter for dating a kufir? How about a sunni murdering a heretic shiite? Both instances involving a case between two muslims.

And are the Canadian courts really going to allow stoning of women for adultery? How about lashing or even hanging for the crime of being raped by muslim men (as is the case in Saudi Arabia and Iran)?

If they can't live by the laws of the country they reside in, they are welcome to move to a country more of their liking.

Posted by: walterc at May 8, 2008 11:36 AM

Isn't Aly Hindy the spiritual advisor of the Khadr clan? Just what benefit does this fellow bring to the general population of Canada?

I believe the term "sociopathy" is used to describe pathological behavior in which empathy is displayed only to members of the group (e.g. biker gangs, organized crime, etc.). "Psychopathy" describes a condition in which the individual has no empathy with anyone whatsoever (e.g. Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer). So there is a useful distinction between the terms, apropos to this discussion.

Posted by: Chatillon at May 8, 2008 11:51 AM

The see-no-evil process continues.

Here is an article about Iran's prez, and how Israel is gonna die or something, yada yada yada.
The picture is great.
http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2008/05/ahmadinahomo-ce.html

Posted by: interestinconundrum at May 8, 2008 11:55 AM

etc.). "Psychopathy" describes a condition in which the individual has no empathy with anyone whatsoever (e.g. Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer). So there is a useful distinction between the terms, apropos to this discussion.
Posted by: Chatillon

That's absolutely correct. The meaning of the term 'psychopath', was diluted when 'sociopath' was substituted. A psychopath has no remorse whatsoever and may be of superior intelligence. That's why I referenced Hannibal Lecter above. There are a lot of psychopaths around, used car salesman, politicians etc, but hook that up with deep religious belief, a taste for blood, brutality and revenge, and you have a raging Islamic jihadist. Who would kill you in a second and thank Allah for delivering you to him. This is Shahada and Allahu Akbar in action. Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."...No mercy...no remorse...'psychopathy'...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 8, 2008 12:51 PM

Canada has to do away with the shameful and suicidal young offender privacy act.

Posted by: Charles Martel at May 8, 2008 1:31 PM

"the Prophet Abraham"

Isn't that special. It isn't only Mohammad that gets a capital P in the press these days. Must be so that we know this is the Mohammadan Abraham, as opposed to that other fellow, the Patriarch Abraham.

Posted by: CJ at May 8, 2008 1:32 PM

From the Guardian Unlimited (paraphrased):

"In 2004 a report recommending that Muslim faith-based tribunals be allowed in Ontario, Canada, triggered huge controversy.

Family faith-based tribunals had been set up by Catholic and Jewish communities following the passing of the province's Arbitration Act in 1991, in an attempt to deal with a backlog of court cases, enabling groups to use the guiding principles of their faith to settle disputes over divorce, inheritance and custody.

In 2003, the Islamic Institute of Civil Justice said it intended to establish similar tribunals for the 400,000 Muslims living in Ontario, realising it would not be possible to allow Christian and Jewish tribunals to continue, but ban Muslim ones.

Homa Arjomand, an Iranian who organised International Campaign Against Sharia Court in Canada, argued that the recommendations would push back Canadian law by 1,400 years. There was mainstream scepticism that such tribunals were compatible with Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The largest group of protesters were muslim women.

Such was the political feeling that the province's premier, Dalton McGuinty, eventually dismissed the report's recommendations. He was also forced to ban other religions which had been using faith-based tribunals."

So calm down, there is no sharia law in Canada, yet. But I do agree with Charles Martel, our "Youth Criminal Justice Act" is a joke.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at May 8, 2008 2:22 PM

That WorldNet story is a joke. Utter idiotic fear-mongering.

Muslim groups can band together and form these civil-law groups all they want, but they won't be recognized by provincial law in Canada, which deals with civil matters. As ImNoDhimmi says above, Ontario's already dumped all faith-based arbitration after a study group led by the moronic communist twit Marion Boyd recommended allowing sharia-based arbitration. Rather than allow creeping sharia, our premier, Dalton McGuinty, got rid of all relgious-based legal proceedings.

So, huzzah. Don't worry that Canada's becoming part of the caliphate, Yanks. Take care of what you've got brewing in places like Dearborn and Berkeley before worrying about us.

Posted by: OutOfAqaba at May 8, 2008 3:22 PM

Hugh, I remember my father describing Kuwait to me, during the first Gulf war: ALL those people are freakin' nuts. I was astonished, and said, You mean to tell me that the entire country of Kuwait is insane, clinically insane? No, he said, Islam. Islam is what makes them insane.
That was in 91. I was certain that my father was a bigot, and I rebelled, becoming very sympathetic to Muslim causes...turns out he was right after all!
I hate the taste of crow.

The difference is, your father had seen it all. You hadn't. But neither have 95% of Westerners.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at May 8, 2008 4:14 PM

Unfortunately for this young man, Canadian law DOES recognize him and the crimes he is being tried for. Too bad.

Posted by: Vincienzo at May 8, 2008 4:40 PM

"including whether he was suicidal"

Is being suicidal a defense in Canadian law??? That's the implication.

If so, the Canucks are really in for some trouble fighting jihadis.

Posted by: desert dweller at May 8, 2008 5:55 PM

"The young man lately had been expressing an interest in circumsizing himself?" Eee...uuuww! Mael circumcision is one thing, but male SELF-circumcision? Is that really something that adult converts to Islam do? If so, it's news to me.

On the other hand, maybe he should be encouraged to try it.

Posted by: angloirishslav at May 9, 2008 1:11 AM