Yes, it is over 10,000. In fact it's over 11,000.

Posted by: traeh at May 17, 2008 2:02 PM

Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) member countries plan to declare a day of memorial for massacres and genocide committed against Muslim communities in various countries throughout the 20th century.

Yes, like the genocide being carried out in Sudan by Arab Muslims against black Muslims and Christians in the south of Sudan.

Posted by: traeh at May 17, 2008 2:05 PM

Traeh, let me check...........Nope, that one's not on the list.

Posted by: Infidel33 at May 17, 2008 2:12 PM

Next, they'll be claiming that the notorious genocides of various peoples by the moslems were actually done by those peoples AGAINST the moslems. Thus the Armenian genocide will be claimed to have been BY the Armenians against the moslem Turks, and the Biafran genocide BY the Biafrans against the moslem Nigerians. The islamic Ministry of Truth is at it again.

Posted by: ebonystone at May 17, 2008 2:17 PM

Ebonystone, that would be perfectly consistent with mahometan 'logic'. During the course of the Zionist's genocide of the "palestinians", the latter have increased their population fourfold. During the Armenian genocide against the mahometans, the former population seem to disappear from the Earth.

Posted by: Infidel33 at May 17, 2008 2:36 PM

Other massacres of Muslims by Muslims include Saddam Hussein's killings Kurds and the Pakistani atrocities in Bangladesh in 1971 (the low estimate, by the government of Pakistan itself,is 26,000 civilian dead; third-party estimates range from 200,000 upward.)

Posted by: billposer at May 17, 2008 2:39 PM

God these people are depressing in their denial of reality.

Posted by: johndoe at May 17, 2008 3:00 PM

More grievance theater from the religion of the perpetually outraged. Enough of this crap.

Posted by: Rick at May 17, 2008 3:10 PM

the arab mind has a bad habit of lying to its self and this is nothing more of the same

Posted by: crusader at May 17, 2008 3:22 PM

This is Inversionism 101.
It took 20 years for survivors to recover and understand the Holocaust and begin to memorialize it. On the other hand, the Nazis were crying victim before WWII even started.
When Islamofascism is defeated, there will be a giant memorial at the "new, improved" United Nations.

http://www.bravenewsworld.blogspot.com

Posted by: Max Publius at May 17, 2008 3:33 PM

O how the sorrow weighs so heavily on my shoulders when I think how previous generations resisted advancing Islamic missionary brigades simply trying to bring Allah's blessings to these ignorant people. Think of the muscle cramps caused to the sword bearing holy men as raving barbarians got in the way of their blades. Think of how many holy men were sexually injured and even killed in heroic efforts to enlarge the moon god's gene pool.

Even today martyrs are lost simply because the infidels refuse to commit collective suicide. Think of those overworked djinn who have to work overtime to produce all those virgins for the gardens. (They are robots but the shahid must remain ignorant of this fact.)

Bring the proposition out of the OIC and to the UN where it will surely be adopted by god's emissaries. Let the sainted Imam Obama bring the good news to the heretical Americans as their one last chance for Allah's mercy.
/sarc

Posted by: Drakkar at May 17, 2008 3:35 PM

But remember, that for Muslims, a Muslim life is worth much much more than a non-Muslims. While the psychology of evil often predisposes groups to value members over non-members, for Islam they have turned this vice into a virtue. All other major religions would not say the life of a believer is worth more than a non-believer. Only Islam. This is why Islam is tragedy for humanity. And don't give me that "when one person dies, the whole universe dies" B.S., there is so much other clearly supremecist theology in the Koran and hadith to make such claims laughable.

Posted by: James Martel at May 17, 2008 3:59 PM

what is particularly rich is the use of an event during the Armenian genocide; and, of course, the anti-Israeli animus is here.

a tragedy for humanity. that's islam.

Posted by: StillBreathing at May 17, 2008 4:07 PM

Did Islamophobes concoct all those nasty Koranic verses too? As an enemy of Allah, I particularly take note of the verse about striking terror into my heart (8:60).
As for anti-Islamic genocide, were the Armenians Muslim?

Posted by: jewdog at May 17, 2008 4:24 PM

James, your claim that "...for Muslims, a Muslim life is worth much much more than a non-Muslims" is not correct.

In fact, for Muslims, only a Muslim life taken by a non-Muslim is worth anything. Muslim life taken by Muslims worths less than dirt. That is why Muslims are the main victims of Muslims (just see how many Iraqis are killed for being Muslism [admittedly of the wrong kind]).

That is why I find the general notion of remembrance day for slain Muslims somewhat positive. All it will take is to insist to add to that tiny list the big list of Muslims slathered by Muslims anywhere we can...

Posted by: Cyclop at May 17, 2008 4:26 PM

The funniest part of this is, being Muslim, no scientific approach will have been carried out at all in the preparation of the evidence to support the need for such a memorial.

Had they done so, they would have had to arrive at the only conclusion possible - the one that says the World's biggest killer of Muslims are Zoroastrians... no, um, wait...

Posted by: Un:dhimmi at May 17, 2008 4:29 PM

We should counter with a memorial day for every single one of the over 10,000 attacks done against us since September 11/01. That would mean every single day of the year would be a memorial day.

Posted by: gymgal at May 17, 2008 4:31 PM

Khojaly massacre of Azerbaijanis by Armenians????

This just puts the whole islamic understanding in perspective which one easy example that typifies the whole.

The Azeries that had just expelled Armenians from their country making them much worse than the Jews they criticise for the Paly refugees.
Then proceeded to massacre Armenians in Karabakh, rape and kill and fire intentionally on civilian targets like schools where they knew children were.

Then the "brave moslem mujahadeen" retreat from khokaly and kill Azeries in the crossfire.

To make it look like a massacre they then mutilate the bodies and call in the world press.

Then they bleat and make a fuss to distract the world from what really happened with their moslem mujahedeen rapes and killings.....

Pathetic of them and the response of civilisation should be to make known across the globe the moslem lies.....

Posted by: exposesithlords at May 17, 2008 4:43 PM

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=232

Posted by: LazarOfSerbia at May 17, 2008 5:59 PM

There was an old old book that claimed that approximately 150 million Christians, Zoroastrians and others were murdered during the Islamization of the Middle East. So I will see your massacres and raise you a few genocides.

Posted by: stickman at May 17, 2008 7:09 PM

The game of Tu-Quoque, I'm afraid, is not one that Muslims can win. If they insist on a scorecard of comparative atrocities, against Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and others, in the 20th century, or over the past 1350 years, they will be doing great damage to themselves and to those who wish to protect the "image" of Islam. Not a cleverly tought-out move.

Posted by: Hugh at May 17, 2008 7:09 PM

Wonder why the Mohammedans restricted the scope of this to the 20th century? Even with that, they lose, as the Armenian massacres and the India partition riots alone would dwarf all the massacres listed above. And as Hugh mentions, if we go back the last 1350 years, for each of the groups mentioned above, there will be a far worse example of atrocities by Muslims, whether it was the battle of Kosovo in 1389 or the massacres of Hindus by the tens of millions between 1000 and 1761.

Sure enough, OIC, bring it on!

Posted by: Infidel Pride at May 17, 2008 7:53 PM

The game of Tu-Quoque, I'm afraid, is not one that Muslims can win.
by Hugh

But they can and will win because theirs is the cause celebre and because the comparative scorecard will not see the light of day. Only people like Robert will bring it forward. Confront the MSM with such numbers and you're likely to hear: two wrongs don't make a right.
A prominent university or foundation might do a study and it will be characterized as "far right", stripping it of credibility. Few movers and shakers are interested in defending Western civilization. Those like Hugh and Robert, with truth on their side, are demonized as haters. Facts are bothersome. MSM and the Left have their script already written. There's no time for, or interest in, rewrites.

Posted by: PMK at May 17, 2008 8:11 PM

Only slightly OT, I just now posted the comment below at MuslimMatters.org, where it "awaits moderation," meaning that I have so ticked off the Muslims running the place that my comment will probably not be posted. That is, I'm an infidel of a troll, as fate would have it.
_________________________________________

Amad,

Speaking of Jihad, there is this, from http://religionofpeace.com/

“The purpose of Islam is to save humankind from the anguish of this world and the world to come. Therefore the Prophet’s mission was to establish justice and peace on earth and to offer guidance for salvation in the Hereafter. For all of this his method was nonviolence, because he was created rahmatan lil-`alamin as a Mercy to the Worlds.”

Then there is this, from http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Myths-of-Islam.htm#peace

“Muhammad organized 65 military campaigns in the last ten years of his life and personally led 27 of them. The more power that he attained, the smaller the excuse needed to go to battle, until finally he began attacking tribes merely because they were not part of his growing empire.”

Gee, maybe one abrogates the other? It all looks like bloody jihadi nonsense to me, but then, I’m an infidel.

Posted by: Lex at May 17, 2008 8:15 PM

When Islamofascism is defeated, there will be a giant memorial at the "new, improved" United Nations.

Please let the celebration (and the home of the UN) be in Kabul. On second thought, make it Mecca. There's something delicious in the idea of hundreds of Western infidels making their home in the birthplace of Mohammed and having diplomatic immunity to practice their faith freely. Imagine all the hajj-makers having to wend their way through that crowd of non-Muslims as they make their way to the Grand Mosque. They'll be banging their heads on the ground while everyone else is having a good time.

Posted by: PMK at May 17, 2008 8:17 PM

Islam = Religion of Victims

Boo Hoo

Posted by: champ at May 17, 2008 8:37 PM

This is the kind of nonsense that naturally occurs to people who beat their heads against the floor several times a day. They literally beat their brains in. No wonder they can't think rationally.

Posted by: ebonystone at May 17, 2008 9:32 PM

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=44a_1207174085

Posted by: Hugh at May 17, 2008 10:08 PM

"OIC countries are being confronted by different Islamophobic groups that have developed a plethora of myths of so-called historic violence Muslim countries [perpetrated] against others. That is a conscious strategy to create an image of Muslim peoples as ruthless and Islam as a culture of violence.

Oh yeah, like 'the Magnificent 19'? Violence from Islamic Jihad? What would give you that idea OIC? Muslims had been raping, pillaging, looting, enslaving prisoners or anyone, murdering captives, ala beheadings, taking hostages for ransom or death, genocidal murder of whole cultures, piracy and more looting, suicide bombings, etc.... but we aren't supposed to know about it? Well, we do. And we also know where it comes from. One hint, the name starts with an M, and the cult name starts with an I, and the satanic attacks against mankind starts with a J... Give up?

Tuff shitsky! You are doing it to yourselves, stop passing the blame onto the victims. Nobody believes you anymore.

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at May 17, 2008 10:19 PM

LazarOfSerbia, thank you for posting that link.

I'm a former homicide detective and have seen more than my share of gruesome death. But the pictures at the link are beyond comprehension in their manifest brutality.

People, we are not going to talk our way out of this war.

Posted by: undaunted at May 17, 2008 10:26 PM

I think that we can all agree that Osama, Zawahiri, the Taliban and Al Qaeda would never have existed if it weren't for those dern islamophobes.

Posted by: Goob at May 17, 2008 10:48 PM

I'm surprised they didn't throw in the Tsunami, which killed more Muslims than all of these "genocides" (sic) put together.

They could have blamed it one infidel-caused "Global Warming" (with Al Gore's blessing) and still have a victim count that, sadly for them, doesn't approach the slaughters perpetrated BY Muslims.

They could call their Memorial Day:

A Convenient Lie.

Posted by: profitsbeard at May 17, 2008 11:06 PM

Just seconding Hugh.

This is an interview with Bill Warner of the Centre for the Study of Political Islam - scroll down to the bit where he's summarising the guesstimated totals of Infidels butchered so far by Muslims in the name of 'allah', a vast historical series of mass murders that Warner calls 'the Tears of Jihad'.

http://frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=6AA49466-2575-491F-B712-CEA90FCCCD0D

and another interview with Bill, covering similar ground:
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=77D37794-BF74-4BD5-9AD4-D8736FDC82BB

I think that we Infidels of the Resistance against the Jihad need to get together in groups, face to face, city by city, country by country, as soon as possible, and start organising to conduct ceremonial, public, LOUD commemoration of ALL the 'Tears of Jihad', be they Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, or African.

The Jews were the first victims; they have been hated, and treated like despised dogs, used and abused, all along. Christians, too. But in terms of sheer numbers it is the Africans and Indians who have been offered to allah in millions, scores of millions. The jihad genocide of the people of the Nuba Mountains in Sudan; the jihad genocide of the christian and animist southern Sudanese.

I suggest 'All Souls Day' as a possible date, since it has ecumenical resonance.

Jews might like to take the date on which Mohammed is supposed to have attacked Khaybar, as a symbolic date on which to remember and mourn all Jews who were killed - or enslaved, or raped, or forcibly 'converted' after having been stolen as children - by Muslims. I don't know enough about Hinduism, Taoism or Buddhism to know whether they have religious festivals that might provide a similar, suitable framework.

I have suggested this before, here and elsewhere: imagine if, on one chosen day, all the bells of all the churches across the non-Muslim lands were to toll, incessantly, from sundown to sundown, in memory of all those non-Muslims who have been murdered during 'jihad'?

Imagine the voices of the bells of St Paul's in London, St Peter's in Rome, the great churches of Russia, the cathedrals of France and Germany, the voice of St John the Divine in New York, the bells of San Francisco, cathedrals the length and breadth of Latin America: ringing, ringing, ringing, hour after hour after hour.

Ringing not only for Christians but for Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, and the millions of nameless black African boys seized, and emasculated, and dying before they even reached the slave markets.

And the non-Muslim religious leaders publicly explaining just exactly why this was happening, and who was being remembered and mourned, providing chapter and verse from the multiple and awful historical records, and contemporary testimony from living survivors of modern jihads (Sudanese, Maronites, Nigerians...) or modern dhimmitude (for example, Copts).

If Muslims squawk, we will simply point out two facts that can, I believe, be readily established:

the number of non-Muslims killed (or, if not killed, subjected to gross mistreatment) by Muslims, far exceeds the number of Muslims killed (or subjected to gross mistreatment) by non-Muslims

more Muslims have been killed BY THEIR OWN FELLOW MUSLIMS (e.g. Iran-Iraq war; Pakistan-Bangladesh war; Darfur) than have been killed by non-Muslims.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at May 17, 2008 11:10 PM

For one attempt at an overview and rough count of intra-ummah killings in the 20th century alone, follow this link:

http://imshin.net/?p=448

I just checked it and it's still active as of today (May 18 2008) but in case it breaks in future, I'll post a few paragraphs, just to give some idea as to the content:

"The tragedy is that in Arab and Muslim countries a massacre is happening. A genocide protected by the silence of the world. A genocide protected by a deception that is perhaps unparalleled in the history of mankind. A genocide that has no connection to Israel, to Zionism or to Jews.
"A genocide of mainly Arabs and Muslims, by Arabs and Muslims".

"The massacre in {Muslim-ruled, independent of France} Algeria continues. In the 1991 elections the Islamic Salvation Front was voted in. The results of the elections were cancelled by the army.

' Since then a civil war has been raging, between the central government, supported by the army, and Islamic movements.

' According to various estimates, there have been about 100,000 victims so far. Most of them have been innocent civilians. In most cases it has been horrific massacres of whole villages, women, children and old people. A massacre in the name of Islam."...

The article includes a brief discussion of the Pakistan campaign of mass killing in Bangladesh in 1971 - giving a much higher count than that mentioned by billposer, above.

The article is marred by some imprecision: for example, the author doesn't seem to recognise that the mass killings in Indonesia in the 1960s, and in East Timor 1970s-80s, were primarily killings of NON-Muslims by Muslims, as also the mass killings in Sudan (at least until the 'Arab Muslims' started in on the 'black Muslims' of Darfur).

Nevertheless, it does draw attention to the fact that Muslims very frequently kill other Muslims in very large numbers, and that this is happening, and has happened, right across the Muslim world.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at May 18, 2008 12:26 AM

From article: That is a conscious strategy to create an image of Muslim peoples as ruthless and Islam as a culture of violence.

It's called 'telling the truth'...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 18, 2008 1:12 AM

Hugh

Your Liveleak video message from Europe to the ummah was priceless, and worth a cover post in its own right.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at May 18, 2008 1:35 AM

"There was an old old book that claimed that approximately 150 million Christians, Zoroastrians and others were murdered during the Islamization of the Middle East. So I will see your massacres and raise you a few genocides."

If thats the case, throw in around 80 million Hindus murdered by Islamists, 10 million Buddhists, 120 million Africans and 60 million Europeans according to Bill Warner - that makes the total a frightening 420 million infidels murdered in the name of Islam - a total that rises by the best part of 500,000 to 1 million every year.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at May 18, 2008 4:29 AM

Very hypocritical of the Muslims.

There is a BIG difference in the motives for the violence. For non-Muslims it is to free themselves of dhimmitude and for the Muslims it isn't about freedom at all but to enslave into dhimmitude through jihad.

So,the moral equivalency argument does not apply and this initiative is just propaganda.

Posted by: purplemarbles at May 18, 2008 5:12 AM

I'm currently reading Radical Eye for the Infidel Guy. On pages 110-114 the author has a section entitled, "Selected Massacres and other Atrocities of the European Jihad:Or, Europe on Five Massacres a Day".

This section offers just a small sample of Muslim atrocities over the centuries. Does the OIC really want to have a "Memorial Day" for Muslims leading to the airing of more of Islams dirty little secrets?

Posted by: Roxane at May 18, 2008 10:21 AM

One of the great sources of evil in human affairs is the notion that victims have superior moral standing over, and claims on the people around them.

And as long as that notion is subscribed to, there will be people trying to pose as victims, whether they are or not.

========

I will add that MOST people who commit acts of aggression and violence claim legitimacy for their actions on the grounds of victimhood.

Go to any jail and talk to the resident scholars and you will find this to be true.

Listen to the propaganda of any violent fringe group and you will find this to be true.

Posted by: joeblough at May 18, 2008 1:37 PM

All I want to know is whether or not I'll get a Monday off from work.

Posted by: Abscedere at May 18, 2008 9:02 PM

For a reality check on Deir Yassin, claimed by the OIC as a 'massacre of Palestinians by Israeli forces', one may cite Martha Gellhorn's 'take' upon that incident (she had, one must recall, experienced the Spanish Civil War; and had entered Dachau not long after its liberation, so she had a good, solid knowledge of the worst that human beings can inflict upon one another).

"Why do you think the refugees left in the first place?" {Gellhorn asked an Arab Muslim schoolteacher, within Israel, in 1960}:

'Well, there was much fear.
'Then, they all knew about Dir Yassin and expected the same to happen to them.

{Gellhorn then provides a commentary}:

'Inside Israel, the Arabs do not need or use the ['Palestinian'] refugees' stories of massacres; they do not have to account for flight, since they are still at home. They know what happened around them, and their neighbors know, and such stories would be pointless.

'But they do speak of Dir Yassin, which was a genuine massacre and took place in the village of that name, near Jerusalem, on April 9, 1948.

'Before the official Arab-Israel war started (on May 15, 1948) there had been months and months of "incidents." ("From the first week of December 1947, disorder in Palestine had begun to mount. The Arabs repeatedly asserted that they would resist partition by force. They seemed to be determined to drive that point home by assaults upon the Jewish community in Palestine."--Trygve Lie, In the Cause of Peace, Macmillan, 1954.)

'By February, 1948, aside from scattered Arab attacks on scattered Jews, and reprisals for same, the "Arab Liberation Army" had moved into Palestine from the north, and Jerusalem was bombarded, besieged, and cut off.

'The Jews were trying to run food to the beleaguered Jewish population of Jerusalem.

'A lot of Jews were getting killed in that effort, in Jerusalem and elsewhere, and in the eyes of some Jews not enough was being done to prevent or avenge this. The state of Israel did not exist {NOTA BENE}; no functioning Jewish government could control this anarchic, deadly phase of undeclared war.

'Two famous illegal groups of militant Jews, the Stern Gang and the Irgun Zvai Leumi, had their own ideas on how to fight fire with fire. The British regarded them both as terrorists.

'The Jewish Agency and their underground army, the Haganah, which were the official Jewish authorities in Palestine, also rejected the Stern Gang and the Irgun Zvai Leumi, because of their ruthlessness.

'Under the circumstances that created them, these two outlawed bands do not seem very different from Resistance groups, Partisans, or Commandos, all of whom were admired as patriots, and none of whom obeyed the Queensberry rules. {There speaks Martha, veteran observer of the Spanish Civil War}.

'The Irgun Zvai Leumi, in any case, behaved like desperate men at war, not like the millennial inheritors of a high moral code.

'The village of Dir Yassin lay close to besieged Jerusalem and its life-line road. According to the Irgun, Dir Yassin was a nest of snipers and armed Arabs; an effective enemy concentration. On their own, the Irgun decided to attack Dir Yassin. Their leader was killed by Arab fire from the village; the Irgun fighters then went brutally mad and shot everyone in sight. Two hundred and fifty Arabs were killed.

'To this day, Israelis cannot get over their shame for Dir Yassin while failing to remind themselves, the Arabs, and the world that murder, horribly, begets murder; and they could present a longer casualty list {NOTA BENE} of Jews killed by Arabs, before and after Dir Yassin, during the twilight period of terror that preceded open war.

'The news of Dir Yassin spread like the tolling of a funeral bell throughout Arab Palestine.

'According to their own ethical code and practice of war, Dir Yassin must have seemed a natural portent of the future to the Arabs. They intended to massacre the Jews; if the Jews were victorious, obviously they would massacre the Arabs.

'As the beautiful schoolteacher pointed out, Dir Yassin threw the fear of death into vast numbers of the Arab population. In panic, they fled from Palestine.'"

From Martha Gellhorn, 'The Arabs of Palestine', The Atlantic Monthly, 1961.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at May 19, 2008 8:22 AM