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The horror, the horror? Nah
Is Osama bin Laden dead? Yet? Still? More importantly, does it really matter? It does not. The jihad, as Joe Biden and almost everyone else doesn't realize, is not a movement organized around a charismatic figure. It is an ideologically driven movement, and that movement will not die with Osama.
"Osama Bin Laden is not in Pakistan he is dead says Taliban leader," from the Pakistan Daily, May 26 (thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist):
A top Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud has rejected reports that al-Qaeda leader, Osama Bin Laden, and other leaders are hiding in his region."The al-Qaeda leader, Osama Bin Laden is dead, and the Afghan Taliban leader, Mullah Omar, are not in our territory," he said in an interview broadcast by a satellite television network.
Funeral prayers have been said for Osama bin Laden over the years with one reported by a Pakistani news organisation, and another in an Egyptian newspaper as far back as December 2001.
This report quoted an official of the Taliban saying that he had suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death.
The news has been reported that he died of heart and kidney disorders. Americans and Pakistani leaders have suggested that he was one, killed in the US bombing of Afghanistan, died of illness later, or just died....
Posted by Robert at May 27, 2008 2:07 PM
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Show us the corpse. We can extract DNA from it.
Give us complete details on when and where it happened.
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at May 27, 2008 2:23 PM
As Robert says, it doesn't matter.
But I disagree that it's not a movement organized around a charismatic figure. From what I've observed, the charismatic figure (also quite dead, but still capable of being insulted and holding a grudge) is Mohammed.
Posted by: Abscedere at May 27, 2008 2:32 PM
He is not important in the sense that no jihadist is fighting for and on the behalf of bin Laden. There is no bin Ladenism. He's only important to the degree Muslims see him as favored by Allah, a new Saladin if not Caliph, whom the infidels are unable to kill for obvious reasons. There is a psychology to Jihad, the sense of victory bringing more recruits who are convinced, yes it is the Time of Jihad. Or defeat, constraint,
frustration, the death of leaders, bringing the return to laying low, to inshallah fatalism.
Dead or alive he and Zawahiri and son Saad were more likely under the protection of Iran all this time anyway.
at May 27, 2008 2:50 PM
I have said he is worm bait since Tora Bora.
Posted by: interestinconundrum at May 27, 2008 2:59 PM
I think OBL had the notion that he was the Mahdi, so much for that idea.
Posted by: interestinconundrum at May 27, 2008 3:03 PM
AND W-H-A-T ABOUT THE TALIBAN COMMANDER MAKES HIM CONVINCING? JUST MORE TAQQIYAH(DECEPTION) UNTIL AND UNLESS THERE IS A CORPSE, A VERIFIABLE CORPSE!
Posted by: CHOI at May 27, 2008 3:38 PM
I thought he was attempting an ascent of K2, following in the footsteps of the American, Bob Bates.
Posted by: Hugh at May 27, 2008 3:45 PM
AND WHAT ABOUT THE TALIBAN COMMANDER MAKES HIM SO CONVINCING? UNLESS THERE IS VERIFIABLE PROOF, THIS IS JUST MORE TAQQIYAH(DECEPTION)!
Posted by: CHOI at May 27, 2008 3:46 PM
"...our territory..."
Also, we're sorry, but we have some basic trust issues that we need to work on, so we'll have to DNA test and otherwise abuse the body. We'll pick it up tomorrow. Thanks.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at May 27, 2008 3:47 PM
I think OBL had the notion that he was the Mahdi, so much for that idea.
Posted by: interestinconundrum
---
Impossible. He's a sunni.
at May 27, 2008 4:04 PM
In the big picture, Bin Laden is irrelevant to stopping the jihad, which should be our goal.
But in the little matter of 9/11, he should still be found and made to pay. Dearly. Before live video feed, if possible, to audiences all over Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb.
He could be of some use in disheartening the True Believers, by showing them once again how powerless Allah is to protect those who believe in him the most. Islam has its sacred places, sacred symbols, and sacred leaders, and all are vulnerable to the right kind of kufir leader (who, admittedly, is in deep, deep cover if s/he exists at the moment).
Posted by: special_guest at May 27, 2008 4:28 PM
No, I heard he joined the Soggy Mountain Boys
and would be starring in "O Believer Where Art Thou?"
at May 27, 2008 4:31 PM
Taqquiya at work. Never know what they will say it is as we know war is deceit.
Posted by: savsiv at May 27, 2008 4:44 PM
Would still be good to know for certain that the SOB is dead. When he is, he won't be missed except by the miscreants and fools of the world.
Posted by: Wellington at May 27, 2008 5:01 PM
We want the Body. How else could we wrap it in a Pig Skin bag, encased in a reinforced Concrete block, dumped onto the deepest Ocean floor we can find.
Posted by: flowerknife_us at May 27, 2008 5:11 PM
I agree 100% with Robert “it doesn’t matter” whether OBL is alive or dead. It does not matter what Al Qaeda is up to. It does not matter whether the ‘mahdi’ is here yet or gone. It does not matter if the Taliban is still active. It doesn’t matter about the latest smoke-screen ‘war on terrorism’ event. They are all simply diversions for the real enemy: a ‘religion’ and its 7th C ‘prophet’ which continues to infect millions with a sort of mind cancer called 'jihad'. No – I really think OBL went the way of the last Elvis sighting: simply an irrelevant myth!
Posted by: descendantofacrusader at May 27, 2008 5:31 PM
Well, for a long time I've been very suspicious of the purported "public statements" of OBL. If he'd appear on video, holding recent editions of newspapers and discussing their content, then I'd be more willing to believe that he's still in the saddle. But instead, he appears in videos that could have been recorded years ago and kept in a can, and audio recordings that could be of anyone with a voice similar to his. I've long suspected that al-Qaeda has been following the example of the Japanese warlords in Kurosawa's 1980 film, Kagemusha; when their commander is killed by a sniper, they conceal the news of his death in order to prevent the troops from being demoralized (or the enemy emboldened), and train a lower-class petty criminal with a strong physical resemblance to the commander to pose as him.
Posted by: Seamus at May 27, 2008 5:34 PM
There is an ideology behind islam to keep them coming.. but seeing a dead Obama would make my day, and lots for others. if not found dead, would love to see him in an orange jumpsuit on G'itmo and water boarded as a starter.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at May 27, 2008 5:43 PM
Impossible. He's a sunni....
Greetings UG
Nabi ZK (pbum) recalls the content of azzam.com which was available on the internet for a short time after 9/11. Check the internet archives to see for yourself.
1) Ali ibn Abu Talib was lionized on this site for his exploits against the Quraiza Jews. According to this site the battle against the bani Quraiza was the start of the current conflict. Ali was a legendary fighter and the al q's liked him because he defeated Jews. They are Sunni but the revere Ali.
2) The hadith ... Something like..."If you see the black flags coming from Kurrasan (Afghanistan) then go to join that army even if you have to crawl over ice for it is the army of imam madhi and he is going to liberate Jerusalem" was featured on the site. One had the feeling that, because of course the Taliban flew black flags and the al q's had located there, they were saying the hadith pertained to them. In any case they quoted the hadith about imam madhi on their site. They are Sunni but are into imam madhi.
3) There have been many previous madhist movements when different pretenders came forth only to get their asses kicked apparently by the will of Allen. There had been such in najistan (PakiWakiLand)confronting the Brits in their colonial project. I believe the madhists were Sunni in this case since most najistani are Sunni. They kill Shia over there. Don't they? Ergo majority Sunni.
Nabificly yours
nabi ZK (pbum)
Posted by: zonie kafir
at May 27, 2008 5:47 PM
Yep, dead or not, doesn't matter.
Misinformation? maybe....this would be typical. If he's hiding out near K2 like the report today said, it could be a red herring put out there to try to trick the US forces. A pathetic one, but then....
K2 is a 7 day hike from the nearest "road", lots of places to hide in that area. Good thing we good guys have AIR POWER.
Posted by: gymgal at May 27, 2008 5:58 PM
Muhammed is dead, but he's still causing trouble.
Posted by: jewdog at May 27, 2008 6:27 PM
Be he living or be he dead....
The Jihad will go on. There have been charismatic figures before. They come and go, but the Old Firm has been in the terrorism business since the 7th Century. As my former company first sgt. was fond of reminding us, "One monkey don't stop no show."
at May 27, 2008 6:28 PM
Encouraging news from Australia:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1211872827539&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
at May 27, 2008 6:32 PM
OBL fakes his own death, huh? What a fitting end to following a fake religion. Only a coward pretends that he is dead and won't show his face to the world. Guess that makes him a fake hero, too. Muslims don't have any true prophets or real heros, only pretenders and fakers all around. How pathetic.
Posted by: champ at May 27, 2008 6:42 PM
UG,
Please see the excellent Tim Furnish (Go Buckeyes!) for the most thorough and complete information about mahdiism, which is not an exclusively Shia belief, as zonie nabifically (I like my spelling better) and correctly states above.
Regards,
HAID
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at May 27, 2008 7:08 PM
It does matter, for a different reason:
It shows that anyone doing what he's done will end six feet under. Haunted and dispised in the wilderness.
No 'supreme victory' for this fellow. And anyone who steps up to replace him can expect a similar fate.
It's embarrasing for the Jihad movement when we get their leaders. They need the prestige of supreme, divine invicibility, and we ain't letting that happen. Hopefully...
Comparing to Hitler makes sense. When Churchill sent a few bomber planes to Berlin, the embarrasment was total, as Hitler even had Molotov visiting from the Soviet Union. That caused Hitler to have a fit of rage and start making fatal mistakes.
Angering your enemy is good. He'll mess up :)
Posted by: Henrik at May 27, 2008 7:12 PM
Always research before posting. Got to remember that.
Tim spells it "mahdism," which seems to me is missing an "i," but Dr. Furnish would know.
I'm more certain about "nabifically."
:-)
Posted by: Haid Dasalami at May 27, 2008 7:14 PM
Only in Islam can a man continue to make audio and video recordings long after he has died.
at May 27, 2008 8:20 PM
HD
You can say what you like but a true nabi does not use research. He shoots from the hip. As far as spelling goes, nabi ZK (pbum) is of the unlettered variety.
nabi ZK (pbum)
Posted by: zonie kafir at May 27, 2008 8:52 PM
ZK, you are a He-Nabi? All this time I thought that you were a She-Nabi, how about them apples!
Posted by: champ at May 27, 2008 8:57 PM
Research...piff...
Posted by: zonie kafir at May 27, 2008 9:09 PM
Hello champ
Yes. I, nabi ZK, nabi to the mohametan trolls, mostly scarce lately, am a dude.
ZK out
Posted by: zonie kafir at May 27, 2008 9:12 PM
Henrik, I read a translation of Sun-Tzu that said, iirc 'if your enemy is of choleric nature, antagonize him'. Doolittles bombers over Tokyo were important for the very same reason. The arrogance of any supremacist is a weak point, one that should be hit hard and often.
I don't think it matters anymore that bin leadin-from-the-grave is actually dead or not. It would have mattered if he had been hung publicly for his crimes.
Just my 9 cents.
at May 27, 2008 9:25 PM
Hey, ZK! Well I'll be! I've been spoofed by the Nabi-Dude. BTW, I'm a huge fan, and you always make me laugh. Care to share any more secrets? :-D
Posted by: champ at May 27, 2008 9:25 PM
shhhhh, stop talking about osama being dead. pakistan wants to milk every doller worth of aid and assistance from the usa while they search for osama. of course pakistan doesn't tell you straight out that much of this militery aid is going to be used against india in future wars.
Posted by: desidude at May 27, 2008 10:02 PM
The first time I heard this was in an interview of Benazir Bhutto by Robert Frost. It may not matter to islam if bin Laden is alive or dead but the U.S. Government is already broke, think of the money spent in Afganistan.
Posted by: Ken at May 28, 2008 8:05 PM
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