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Making the case against Muslim immigration
Georgia Honor Killing Update: "Dad charged with murder in bride's 'honor killing,'" from CNN, July 8 (thanks to all who sent this in):
ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- A Pakistani man is charged with killing his 25-year-old daughter in Georgia because she wanted out of an arranged marriage, police said.Somber and tearful, Chaudhry Rashid, 54, of Jonesboro, an Atlanta suburb, made his first court appearance Tuesday in connection with the death of Sandeela Kanwal.
He was advised through an interpreter of the murder charge, and of his legal rights.
He was arrested early Sunday, after his wife called police at about 2 a.m. She reported that she had been awakened by screaming but couldn't understand the language, a Clayton County police report said. She said she was afraid and left the house to call police.
Officers found Kanwal dead in an upstairs bedroom of the home, according to the police report.
Rashid's wife told authorities Kanwal recently had been married in Pakistan -- an arranged marriage, she said. The young woman's husband was living in Chicago, Illinois, police said, but Kanwal remained at her father's home and worked at a metro Atlanta Wal-Mart for a brief time.
"The victim was not interested in marrying, nor remaining married to her husband," the police report said, citing information authorities received from Rashid's wife. "This was causing a great deal of friction between the victim and her father," so much so that the two had not spoken in two months, the report said.
Police found Rashid sitting behind a vehicle in the driveway, and he seemed "distraught and possibly mournful," the report said. He told police, "My daughter is dead." But when asked how she died, Rashid did not answer -- "he just dropped his head."...
CNN then bravely considers the possibility of whether this is a...you know...a "South Asian" thing:
"My immediate reaction was that this is an anomaly in the South Asian community," Ajay Nair, associate dean of multicultural affairs at Columbia University, told CNN on Tuesday. "Most South Asian-American families enjoy wonderful relationships within their families.""I think there's ways that we can rationalize it and make sense of it, particularly in thinking about new immigrant communities in the U.S. and thinking about some of the struggles that they face and the generation gap and the cultural differences that children do face," he said. "I think there are some issues there, but by and large, this isn't a rampant problem within South Asian communities. What is a problem, I think, is domestic violence, and that cuts across all communities."
Domestic violence does indeed cut across all communities. But honor killings are not a "South Asian" problem -- they're an Islamic problem, and CNN's courage somehow falters when it comes to even considering that. Yet nowhere except in Islamic communities is it seen as something that has religious justification. Jordan's Parliament has rejected on Islamic grounds attempts to stiffen sentences for honor killings.
Nair said he believes a "significant human rights campaign" is needed to address such killings....
You can say that again, Nair.
Posted by Robert at July 8, 2008 4:54 PM
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But come on you guys, he obviously was very stressed and depressed and he's really, really sorry. His family looks like they are all heavily grieving, too.
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=126223
Can't we just forget about this and all get along?
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at July 8, 2008 5:30 PM
Great! He's charged with murder. But, where's the "Honor Killing" term, which defines this particular murder?
Guess Clayton County doesn't know about Islamic Honor Killings.
If Mohammedans live in our country now, which they do, the specific term "Honor Killing" needs to be used. And how.
Posted by: darcy at July 8, 2008 5:50 PM
So much for Klingon 'honor', shouldn't he have fallen on his sword rather than be taken by the filthy Kuffar? Garroting, Spanish style, would be a fitting fate for this homozygous monster. What are the chances of execution? Oh well, at least he will do his bit for the slow Jihad by consuming millions of dollars of Kuffar taxpayers money.
Posted by: Henry at July 8, 2008 5:50 PM
I have no doubts this guy is a Muslim. But how would I know that if I didn't know it?
If you go to this story on CNN, FoxNews, or MSNBC, the words Islam or Muslim or Islamic are never used. I can't find a story that says this man's religion.
It infuriates me how the MSM hides this info from us, as if they are somehow protecting either the murderer or the readers.
at July 8, 2008 5:52 PM
Oh well, at least he will do his bit for the slow Jihad by consuming millions of dollars of Kuffar taxpayers money.
Posted by: Henry at July 8, 2008 5:50 PM
Just think, in an Islamic country, he'd be congratulated for a job well done. No consequences whatsoever.
Here, he's imprisoned, which he should be, and we pay for 20 years until the murderer gets his. Well, that's better than the no consequences whatsoever.
Posted by: darcy at July 8, 2008 6:06 PM
I have no doubts this guy is a Muslim. But how would I know that if I didn't know it?
If you go to this story on CNN, FoxNews, or MSNBC, the words Islam or Muslim or Islamic are never used. I can't find a story that says this man's religion.
It infuriates me how the MSM hides this info from us, as if they are somehow protecting either the murderer or the readers.
Posted by: rkj10521 at July 8, 2008 5:52 PM
And the irony is we know. Hey News people - WE KNOW! YOU'RE NOT HIDING ANYTHING FROM US!
Posted by: darcy at July 8, 2008 6:09 PM
Clayton County, Georgia may not know about "Honor Killings", but they understand lethal injections quite well. Georgia is NOT Pakistan. Get right with God mister. The State of Georgia is going to kill you.
Posted by: Infidel One at July 8, 2008 6:44 PM
Check his house for Hefty bags and check out his wife. If he uses them to take out the garbage, he may or may not be a Muslim. If his wife wears one, then it's safe to assume.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at July 8, 2008 7:20 PM
Seems the CNN is sounding more like BBC with this "south Asian" thing... yeah lets include all Asians, instead of "Muslim".. can blame NOBAMA for this now. can't discuss the swear word "islam, muslims...
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at July 8, 2008 7:32 PM
It's the water in South Asia. It makes fathers murder their Americanized daughters.
Something really needs to be done about that water. It gets into the brain and stays there years until years later, after immigrating to the US.
http://www.bravenewsworld.blogspot.com
at July 8, 2008 8:06 PM
Iran may be bluffing, or it could have more muscle than we think.
Any attack should leave Iran incapable of more than
a very weak response, and not much will to do that.
at July 8, 2008 8:54 PM
And the irony is we know. Hey News people - WE KNOW! YOU'RE NOT HIDING ANYTHING FROM US!
Posted by: darcy at July 8, 2008 6:09 PM
Boycott "News people" covering-up on this Islamic practice/crime.
Posted by: Alert at July 8, 2008 10:14 PM
"It's the water in South Asia. It makes fathers murder their Americanized daughters."
Posted by: Max Publius
Nah, Max, it's not the water. It's all that knocking their heads on the floor in "prayer". They're literally beating their brains in.
at July 8, 2008 11:23 PM
It seems to me that murder is murder and I don't understand the desire to add "Honor Killing" as a category of punishment here. I mean, we have laws set up to punish those who kill, regardless of whether it's for not wearing the hijab or for not doing the dishes.
To paraphrase Mark Steyn, whose America Alone book I just finished reading, we need to be culturally confident here and be like General Charles Napier:
"...the British in India were faced with the practice of 'suttee'—the tradition of burning widows on the funeral pyres of their husbands. General Sir Charles Napier was impeccably multicultural: 'You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours.'"
To change it for this case:
"You say that it is your custom to kill uppity daughters. Very well. We also have a custom: when men kill their daughters, we lethally inject them. Strangle your daughter in your home; beside it, we will fill a syringe with poison. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
Posted by: Mo Foe at July 9, 2008 12:58 AM
This guy sure looks demon possessed. Some Islamic demon possesses him. Not that I know much about demons but maybe the spirit of some dead Islamic mass murderer possess him
at July 9, 2008 1:30 AM
He was advised through an interpreter of the murder charge, and of his legal rights.
If you can't speak English you shouldn't be here, you have no intention of integrating.
Shoo! Go on home!
Posted by: Abu_Lahab at July 9, 2008 5:29 AM
As long as we let our ancient texts dictate our behaviors and our sense of "morality", this kind of inhumanity will keep occurring. I would love to believe that this incident was a "domestic violence" issue, but it isn't. That would be too easy. It is, unfortunately, a religious issue.
The time has come, we need to take a hard look at the role our dogmatic beliefs play in the modern world. The disturbing is that this man did not kill his daughter out of reckless arbitrary violence. Islam as an idea has never championed human rights of women (or anyone outside the muslim faith for that matter.) in fact, the quran is quite adamant about the inequality that should be observed when referencing women of islamic society.
According to the quran, women are a source of shame, and should be treated as such. So while honor killings are not covered in the quran, there is more than enough evidence to justify the actions of this particular muslim believer.
This inevitable violence is the product of 4th century rhetoric which is believed by almost 2 billion people to be the inerrant word of God. To reiterate, this is not a domestic issue, but a global issue that could well mean the eradication of human civilization. I wish I was exaggerating, but it's all there in the text. The evidence in the quran for the use of violence is startling. This is only trumped by the evidence we have for how many people actually believe that the text was actually written by God himself.
It is now the responsibility of all humans to open up an honest discourse about the irrationality of religion and dogmatic belief (Islam is only one of many religions, including christianity and judaism, that put juvenile fairy tales before rational thought and scientific inquiry.) We cannot afford to tip toe around the subject any longer by relegating what is clearly a religious problem to a "domestic issue" for fear of offending or being politically incorrect.
These events are happening at an alarming rate (even 1 honor killing a year is too much), and must be dealt with in the form of rational thought, skeptical inquiry, and cold hard facts. I am saddened by the aggression that took place in Atlanta, but I also know that if this same event took place in Iran or Nigeria, it wouldn't have been met with the same vehement opposition.
While I applaud our modern society for its sense of right and wrong on issues of honor killings, I am downright skeptical when it comes to using an ancient text for moral council. The same text that reads love your neighbor also can be invoked to justify the stoning of disobedient children, homosexuals, and heretics of all types.
This kind of thinking needs to change in order for us as a humanist civilation to create a sustainable future.
at July 9, 2008 5:36 AM
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
Posted by: plumberger at July 9, 2008 6:21 AM
This guy sure looks demon possessed. Some Islamic demon possesses him. Not that I know much about demons but maybe the spirit of some dead Islamic mass murderer possess him
Posted by: dennisw
Our client was possessed. He didn't know what he was doing when he strangled his daughter. He brought that bungee cord into the house just for fun. Suddenly his daughter was dead and he never understood why or how. We ask you to find our client not guilty by temporary insanity.
Posted by: PMK at July 9, 2008 7:50 AM
Demon possessed...This is very simple...When Allah tells you to strike that man/woman/child down, it's time to strike that man/woman/child/ down.
This is the basis of acting out hallucinatory
behavior. 'The thought is the father of the deed', a hallucination, coupled with illusion, produces delusion. This divine delusion (Islam) erases the resistance to violence, encouraging it actually.
Allah has us all figured out, except those who have figured him out first. Allah is wise, but not 'that' wise...
at July 9, 2008 8:31 AM
In Pakistan, he would be exonerated or if were to be imprisoned, he would be get amnesty.
He will have a big wake up call here in America.
Posted by: callmeinfidel at July 9, 2008 8:47 AM
BTW darcy, I checked the population of Jonesboro. It's 4,048.
Considering that the PD in the TINY city I worked for served a population of 6,164 people, he was most likely arrested by Jonesboro PD (who, according to 2003 stats, have 24 full time officers and 2 part time ones), and then transferred and booked into the Clayton County jail facility. That's the way most small-town PD's handle suspects being booked on felony charges.
The PD responsible for his initial arrest would have been, as I had thought, a small-town department, and I will go out on a limb and say they probably don't have a large "honor killing" crime rate. The most recent Uniform Crime Report on file with the FBI (2006) shows Jonesboro PD with a whopping ZERO murders, and there were only 23 "Violent Crimes" for the whole year - 1 Rape, 13 Robberies, and 9 Aggravated Assaults. My own PD had 2 Rapes, 1 Robbery, and 8 Aggravated Assaults for the same year.
Here's the link, if you'd like to check for yourself: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_08_ga.html.
Although I'm sure their Chief is getting inundated with info and emails about Islam and honor killings (due to all the media attention), your letter was well-written and informative, and I'd recommend you forward it to him. His name is Chief T.W. (Wayne) Rowland, and his email is twrowland@jonesboroga.com.
Posted by: Lori B. at July 9, 2008 9:37 AM
I notice that the Wikipedia entry on "honor killing" dissociates it from Islamic culture by including spouse killings on the grounds of adultery. This is still more or less condoned in some Christian cultures. I would prefer to see the specific problem of women and girls being murdered by parents and siblings singled out, and the certainly heavy preponderance of a Muslim background noted.
Posted by: Karl Pov at July 9, 2008 9:54 AM
.
Posted by: undaunted at July 9, 2008 10:24 AM
I agree with Mo Foe above... in the imperative.
Posted by: undaunted at July 9, 2008 11:18 AM
BTW darcy, I checked the population of Jonesboro. It's 4,048.
Considering that the PD in the TINY city I worked for served a population of 6,164 people, he was most likely arrested by Jonesboro PD (who, according to 2003 stats, have 24 full time officers and 2 part time ones), and then transferred and booked into the Clayton County jail facility. That's the way most small-town PD's handle suspects being booked on felony charges.
The PD responsible for his initial arrest would have been, as I had thought, a small-town department, and I will go out on a limb and say they probably don't have a large "honor killing" crime rate. The most recent Uniform Crime Report on file with the FBI (2006) shows Jonesboro PD with a whopping ZERO murders, and there were only 23 "Violent Crimes" for the whole year - 1 Rape, 13 Robberies, and 9 Aggravated Assaults. My own PD had 2 Rapes, 1 Robbery, and 8 Aggravated Assaults for the same year.
Here's the link, if you'd like to check for yourself: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_08_ga.html.
Although I'm sure their Chief is getting inundated with info and emails about Islam and honor killings (due to all the media attention), your letter was well-written and informative, and I'd recommend you forward it to him. His name is Chief T.W. (Wayne) Rowland, and his email is twrowland@jonesboroga.com.
Posted by: Lori B. at July 9, 2008 9:37 AM
Thanks Lori B! I appreciate all your info, and thanks for posting it. Also thanks for your compliment. You're fabulous, Lori B.
at July 9, 2008 11:51 AM
Mo Foe's argument above arguing for ignoring "honor crime" as a special or distinct category in the process of police investigation, jury deliberation and judicial sentencing has some flaws. Let me show them:
First, take a look at this part of the story:
"The victim was not interested in marrying, nor remaining married to her husband," the police report said, citing information authorities received from Rashid's wife. "This was causing a great deal of friction between the victim and her father," so much so that the two had not spoken in two months, the [police] report said.
Police found Rashid sitting behind a vehicle in the driveway, and he seemed "distraught and possibly mournful," the [police] report said. He told police, "My daughter is dead." But when asked how she died, Rashid did not answer -- "he just dropped his head."...
Notice something? We can see here an example of how the news media often relies on police reports to describe to the general public the nature of the crime that made the news. The news media's role is to educate the public; thus the police, in drafting and issuing their reports, have a responsibility for being part of that process. If "honor killing" were a part of the legal/criminal lexicon in America (and the whole West), then it would become a part of the news media lexicon whenever news reporters quote police reports.
And for "honor killing" as a concept to be part of the legal/criminal lexicon, it is not necessary that it carry any distinct penalties different from murder; it would function as a label that helps the ongoing education of the public about the problem Muslims are causing by pursuing their culture in our lands. However, in the US at least, murder is not simply murder -- there are degrees of murder depending on mitigating circumstances. Our justice system needs to develop "honor killing" as a category that would prevent or inhibit defense attorneys (and then juries) from diminishing a Muslim's guilt of first-degree murder due to mitigating emotional or psychological factors that would be given undue weight in legal sentencing because no other motive exists in the judge's or jury's mind, since if they don't even know what an "honor killing" is, they will look for other motives, and if no other normal first-degree motive seems apparent from the facts, it will be more likely for the defendant's crime to be mitigated by other factors.
Police, in writing up and publically issuing their reports, need not be seen as acting as "judge and jury" if they were to call a given murder an "honor killing" -- they can always phrase it by saying "This was apparently an honor killing" or "All indications from our investigation point to this crime as an honor killing" etc. It would then be up to the lawyers, judge, jury to decide from the facts if it is, in fact, an honor killing (which hopefully our justice system will some day include that category as a first-degree murder).
SEcond and closely related to all of the above is the likelihood that if police investigators are ignorant of the concept of "honor killing" they will have a major blind spot in their investigation that searches out possible motive. Without the concept of "honor killing", the police will try to piece together a motive for the killing, and if no other conventional motive seems plausible from the facts, it will be easier for the defense attorney to argue for some kind of mitigating factors to lessen the sentence of his client (insanity, passion, whatever).
Notice too from the police report quoted by the news media that the police report is not simply "just the facts ma'am" -- there are subtle interpretions mixed in there. Besides, even if a police report were purely "just the facts", this should not prevent a police report from reporting the apparent fact that the alleged criminal's motive in killing his daughter, sister, wife, or mother was to restore the family's Islamic honor. This would be a fact for the police to report -- then it would be up to the judicial process to determine if it was really a fact, and/or if other factors mitigate it. One thing's for sure: if our public servants in the legal system from police on up to judge and juries don't even have "Islamic honor killing" in their mental rolo-dex, it will never be part of the process at all, from police investigation, to police report, to preliminary sentencing, to lawyer arguments, to jury deliberations, to final sentencing -- nor in the general public's education about these crimes which both the news media and legal public servants (from cops on up to lawyers, juries, and state congressmen who draft laws) have a responsibility in disseminating.
If all these illustrious public servants are going to remain ignorant of this increasingly disturbing phenomenon in our societies caused by Muslims following their Islam, then it's up to the people to pester them about the responsibility to their jobs they are failing.
at July 9, 2008 12:20 PM
One thing's for sure: if our public servants in the legal system from police on up to judge and juries don't even have "Islamic honor killing" in their mental rolo-dex, it will never be part of the process at all, from police investigation, to police report, to preliminary sentencing, to lawyer arguments, to jury deliberations, to final sentencing -- nor in the general public's education about these crimes which both the news media and legal public servants (from cops on up to lawyers, juries, and state congressmen who draft laws) have a responsibility in disseminating.
If all these illustrious public servants are going to remain ignorant of this increasingly disturbing phenomenon in our societies caused by Muslims following their Islam, then it's up to the people to pester them about the responsibility to their jobs they are failing.
Posted by: DenverRodeo at July 9, 2008 12:20 PM
That's a great argument, DenverRodeo, and it sounds familiar! I concur.
at July 9, 2008 12:42 PM
Give it a rest.
Posted by: undaunted at July 9, 2008 12:48 PM
Give it a rest.
Posted by: undaunted
No worries: The prosecution rests.
Posted by: DenverRodeo at July 9, 2008 3:41 PM
You and your posse went beyond boring to irrelevant long ago.
Posted by: undaunted at July 9, 2008 4:16 PM
Karl Pov,
Do excuse me, but I know of no "Christian cultures" that condone, in any way, killing a spouse for adultery, any more than I know of Jesus of Nazareth having sanctioned or participated in such killing.
Posted by: John C at July 9, 2008 4:55 PM
This is quite different from dealing with "crimes of passion" as if, by their nature, circumstances somehow mitigate the perpetrator's guilt through clouded reason and lack of premeditation.
Posted by: John C at July 9, 2008 5:11 PM
Absolutely.
Posted by: undaunted at July 9, 2008 5:17 PM
Give it a rest.
Posted by: undaunted
No worries: The prosecution rests.
Posted by: DenverRodeo at July 9, 2008 3:41 PM
Don't worry about "undaunted," DenverRodeo.
He's got a male vendetta against me, which is obvious.
Thanks for your support, Denver. The aforementioned is really sick.
Posted by: darcy at July 9, 2008 5:18 PM
oy.
Posted by: undaunted at July 9, 2008 5:52 PM
Karl Pov and John C.:
Jesus admitted that it is lawful to divorce and unfaithful spouse. That's a far cry from honor killing.
Posted by: Kepha at July 9, 2008 8:19 PM
Yes darcy, furthermore, undaunted has not offered a shred of a counter-argument and thinks, arrogantly, that his brute denunciations, barely human utterances, are enough. Enough for him maybe. Not enough for anybody of intelligence reading us.
at July 9, 2008 10:07 PM
oy.
Posted by: undaunted at July 9, 2008 10:29 PM
Yes darcy, furthermore, undaunted has not offered a shred of a counter-argument and thinks, arrogantly, that his brute denunciations, barely human utterances, are enough. Enough for him maybe. Not enough for anybody of intelligence reading us.
Posted by: DenverRodeo at July 9, 2008 10:07 PM
Really. It's quite wierd, isn't it?
Posted by: darcy at July 9, 2008 11:29 PM
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