I hate to say this, but Israel has opened "Pandora's Box" by releasing murderers. The only way to make up for this mistake is to make any further kidnappings by Hamas so painful for the Palestinian people that they will demand that Hamas stop. If it takes depopulating Gaza, so be it. Hamas can pick their "game", but can't complain if Israel plays it better than they can.

Posted by: kenprice at July 19, 2008 10:00 PM

The kidnappers have no reason to keep the Israelis alive since they get live terrorists for dead bodies. Evil.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at July 19, 2008 10:05 PM

Israel would not have live Muslim murderers to release if it executed all Islamic murderers in the first place after a fair trial and conviction. One of the most deadly daggers pointed at the heart of civilization is false compassion for barbarians. On the surface it can seem enlightened, and it appeals to weaker minds who live within the confines of the civilized world but who are not charged with defending it, but it is in actuality inimical to civilization, stability, law and order and insures repetition of heinous actions by the detritus of the human race.

Put another way, opposition to the death penalty is not only stupid but immoral. Irrespecitve of it deterrent aspects (and it will neither deter all nor none but rather some of the subway portion of mankind), it functions as a form of ultimate restraint (the convicted murderer will never kill again) as well as being a supreme act of justified retribution. Civilization without the death penalty is evidence of civilization gone soft and not comprehending that it must be tough as well as decent in order to survive.

Posted by: Wellington at July 19, 2008 11:08 PM

Gotta hand it to him. It is axiomatic that all primping Islamic terrorist filth is cowardly, evil, and brazen, but this malapert piece of sewage is well beyond the pale.

Posted by: jsla at July 19, 2008 11:14 PM

Israel earned this

Posted by: Elric66 at July 19, 2008 11:15 PM

It seems to me that the Israeli government doesn't always play it the way their US colleagues would like.
http://farleftwatch.wordpress.com

Posted by: redandwhitestripes at July 19, 2008 11:41 PM

I have never understood the "logic" of trading live terrorists for dead bodies. The terrorists have no incentive to keep their victims alive or treat them humanely since they can get what they want even for dead bodies. I will never forget reading about Palestinian savages running and grabbing the body parts of Israeli soldiers after an armored vehicle had been blown up. The body parts were to be used by the ghouls as bargaining chips. One ghoul appeared on Al Jazzera (masked of course) with the head of an Israeli soldier.Imagine the type of mind that could do such a thing, showing such contempt for the dead and the dead mans family.It's things like this that fill me with disgust for the Palestinians and with Islam.The internet has made the world a very small place and the more people learn about Islam the more disgusted they become.

Posted by: Roxane at July 19, 2008 11:52 PM

All I can say is death to the Palestinians and their supporters. These people do NOT deserve the freedom that is afforded to them.

Posted by: Rick at July 20, 2008 12:27 AM

Which side is Olmert on, Israel or terror?

Posted by: Alert at July 20, 2008 2:07 AM

Why isn't this considered a declaration of war?

If the relevant strengths of the 2 sides was reversed, Israel would have been destroyed long ago.

Posted by: Celsius at July 20, 2008 4:27 AM

Olmert is on the side of the destruction of Israel

Posted by: Elric66 at July 20, 2008 6:08 AM

"Israel would not have live Muslim murderers to release if it executed all Islamic murderers in the first place after a fair trial and conviction."
--- from a posting above

Why should this "trial and conviction" stuff be bothered with? As there is no death penalty in Israel, and only one exception to that rule -- Adolf Eichmann -- this "trial and conviction" would not work.

And since Israel gets back corpses of Israelis who were taken alive and then, at some point, killed and their bodies mutilated (that's why Hezbollah handed back partly or completely burned bodies -- to hide what they so obviously and horribly did (not that they are shamed, but because they know in this case the world press will be reporting) -- have any Israelis been returned alive, save a few soldiers returned by the governments of Egypt and Jordan, after a war, in which the Arab side has a hundred or five hundred of its soldiers returned for every Israeli?

Given this, why ever take a terrorist alive, such as someone who has just smashed in the skull of a four-year-old girl? Don't take prisoners among the terrorists, don't lock them up and have to supply their every want, and then eventually have them released to be hailed as heroes. Don't "try and convict" them. Take care of the problem on the spot, when they have caught in the act. This is war with the cruelest kind of murderers, not a police action against a rowdy crowd at a sports event.

Posted by: Hugh at July 20, 2008 6:33 AM

Some terrorists have been captured multiple times by the Israelis only to be released...stop this nonsense by taking no more prisoners...absolutely.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 20, 2008 7:24 AM

Hamas: Kidnapped Israeli soldier "will continue to serve as a bargaining chip" to secure release of jailed jihadists, "including prisoners with blood on their hands."

In that case, make sure to include Olmert & his clan (who have as much blood on their hands) within the next batch of imprisoned terrorists.

And don't take no for an answer.

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at July 20, 2008 8:08 AM

"I spoke with Kuntar, and blessed him on his release from the Zionist prison," [Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh] said. The Hamas prime minister added that he had decided to grant Kuntar a Palestinian passport in honor of his release.

Here's to Kuntar being blessed and honored with a 7.62 between the eyes on his arrival to "Palestine".

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at July 20, 2008 9:04 AM

Well we could all see this coming, no surprise here. Olmert, and whomever his advisor's are should be ashamed of themselves. What did they expect?? Next they'll be exchanging Palestinian prisoners for pieces of clothing of the Israeli prisoners.

Another unbelievable gaffe by Olmert.

Posted by: gymgal at July 20, 2008 11:01 AM

"One of the most deadly daggers pointed at the heart of civilization is false compassion for barbarians. On the surface it can seem enlightened, and it appeals to weaker minds who live within the confines of the civilized world but who are not charged with defending it, but it is in actuality inimical to civilization, stability, law and order and insures repetition of heinous actions by the detritus of the human race."

Posted by Wellington

Wellington,

That's a top-notch post. It's a "damned if we do, damned if we don't" situation, as I see it. On the one hand, compassion (real or falsified) is one of many things that make us civilized.

Who would ever have thought that being, or merely acting with compassion could be a bad thing? Yet, the behaviour of these warlike people has not only turned their own world upside down, but now our world is beginning to tilt, because we are forced to deal with them.

It's all so complicated. Decency depends on compassion (again, among other qualities). However, in our desire not to be hasty in judgment or action, we seem to be immobilized.

I don't know that the minds that embrace compassion--minds that aren't charged with defending the civilized world--are weaker, though. I think they are just very cautious. Too cautious? Probably. But when we act in haste, we repent in leisure.

Posted by: Abscedere at July 20, 2008 11:16 AM

Hugh: In agreement with you that if a terrorist doesn't have to be taken alive, why bother? But inevitably some will be under certain circumstances, for instance a group holed up in a house someplace surrounded by the IDF and wanting to surrender. At that point, the ethics of just shooting them is, I think you would admit, at least debatable. And I was aware that Israel has only executed one person (Adolf Eichmann after being captured in Argentina in a first-class fashion) in its sixty some year history, but my point was that Israel SHOULD have the death penalty for Islamic terrorists who have committed murder. So should every Western government. As I wrote above, false compassion is no compassion and not enlightened at all. It's simply weakness masquerading as wisdom.

Posted by: Wellington at July 20, 2008 12:17 PM

to all,

It appear that we are on opposite side of the issue, but the reality is not. Do you think the Israeli soldiers have no blood on their hands? Have any of you lived under occupation to feel ltheir suffering and humuliation. Killing has to stop on both sides, just peace is attainable if both sides have the courage for it. Anyone can start a war but only true visionary leader can plant peace.

Posted by: justiceforme at July 20, 2008 4:18 PM

"Kidnapped Israeli soldier "will continue to serve as a bargaining chip" to secure release of jailed jihadists, "including prisoners with blood on their hands."

"Remember Schalit" could become a battle cry.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 20, 2008 5:02 PM

justiceforme, The Palestinians do not want peace. Ever.

Posted by: imamerican at July 20, 2008 7:10 PM

justiceforme: I say this respectfully but also forcefully: You are naive. Israel has indicated it has wanted to live in peace with its Arab neighbors from 1948 onwards (and even before when still part of the British Mandate). But the Arab position has always been that Arabs get everything and the Jews get nothing. How do you compromise with this? If anything, Israel has shown a forebearance that is virtually unexampled in all of history. Please wake up. Uninformed idealism is dangerous and in no way indicative of a sapient point of view.

Posted by: Wellington at July 20, 2008 8:54 PM

justiceforme,

Welcome back. I have not seen you posting in quite a while. Your being Wahabbi Muslim, I do not expect that we could reconcile our beliefs regarding the "legitimacy" of Israel's "right to exist" in a brief thread, but what do you think of the following articles?

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/021103.php
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008841.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_National_Fund

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at July 20, 2008 10:48 PM

To wellington,

Israel in its début would have been happy with any peace with Arabs. the fact the country was created anew, this new entity would be very pleased to be recognized by its enemy who saw its creation as a major injustice to their Palestinian brothers...Now 60 years later the demographic and the new reality of power and superiority of Israel might have created new Palestinians and Arabs who are eager to have Peace and join the train of civilization.

Posted by: justiceforme at July 20, 2008 11:49 PM

Concerned Citizen,

Good to be back, although I feel out of touch as a lot of anger and to certain degree of hate in this site atmosphere which prevent any one from the opposite camp to start a peaceful and unbiased discussion, or it seems this way. Your assumption is a judgment and I think you know me better than that from our previous exchanges, or my ex-wife has painted un-thinnable layer of me! Anyway. I have been busy and not having much time to participate. I know of these examples and I agree that those were true. The fact we are living in new reality in this world, do not forget that the Muslim rulers throughout their occupation to Palestine preserved the religious sites Jewish and Christian and they received the Jewish exodus from Spain with open arms and heart. That Maimonides was the private physician of Salahuldin.

Posted by: justiceforme at July 21, 2008 12:11 AM

justiceforme: Huh? First of all, to the extent that the creation of Israel in 1948 was seen by Arabs and the Muslim world as an injustice is itself dispositive of unreality and self-pity. Besides, your reference to "Palestinian brothers" is meaningless. Many Arabs who lived in Palestine as of the late 1940s had come into the area from Egypt (e.g., Arafat) and elsewhere because the Jews under the British Mandate had made something of the land which the Arabs had not done for half a millennium or more. Arabs, as usual, parasitically took advantage of what others had wrought. Moreover, no "Palestinian" identity existed among Arabs in centuries past. It's a very recent invention designed to deny any legitimacy to the Jewish state. The Arabs had also been completely unable to rid themselves of Ottoman rule for centuries and would not have been free of the Turks but for European intervention because of WWI. In short, the Arab world proved its incompetent, shameful and unproductive nature yet again.

Second, what the hell do you mean when you refer to "Palestinians and Arabs who are eager to have Peace and join the train of civilization?" This is pure boilerplate nonsense. To begin with, what's the difference between "Palestinians" and "Arabs?" Do you mean by this the distinction between Arabs in the occupied territories (which exist becasue of Arab intransigence from 1948 onwards) and Israeli Arabs? Be clearer next time. Also, the vast majority of the Arab Muslim world is only eager for a peace that does not allow for a Jewish state in the dar-al-Islam. You know this or should know it. Quit dissembling. You are either extremely ingenuous or deceitful. If the former, you're wasting my time. If the latter, know well that the non-Muslim world is daily and yearly coming to know about all the tricks that Muslims and their surrogates play to obfuscate the truth. Really, if you can't do any better than you have, just give up the ghost.

Posted by: Wellington at July 21, 2008 12:52 AM

'justiceforme' -

You are talking nonsense, WICKED nonsense, when you try to make us believe that Muslim rulers treated Jews and Christians well, whether in the land of Israel, or anywhere else where they (the Muslims) had the upper hand.

You mention Maimonides. OK, let's hear from him. I think it only right to share with everyone here, what Maimonides wrote to the Jews of Yemen, who were undergoing particularly vicious persecution from their Muslim slavemasters:

This is part of what he wrote, around 1200:

"You write that the rebel leader in Yemen decreed compulsory apostasy for the Jews by forcing the Jewish inhabitants of all the places he had subdued to desert the Jewish religion, just as the Berbers had compelled them to do in Maghreb. Verily this news has broken our backs, and has astounded and dumbfounded the whole of our community, and rightly so. For these are evil tidings...

"Remember, my coreligionists, that on account of the vast number of our sins, God has hurled us in the midst of this people, the Arabs, WHO HAVE PERSECUTED US SEVERELY, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us...

"Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they..

"Although we were dishonored by them beyond all human endurance, and had to put up with their fabrications, yet we behave like him who is depicted by the inspired writer, "But I am as a deaf man, I hear not, and I am as a dumb man that openeth not his mouth' (Psalm 38: 14). Similarly, our sages instructed us to bear the prevarications and preposterousness of Ishmael {i.e. the Arab Muslims} in silence..

"We have acquiesced, both old and young, to inure ourselves to humiliation, as Isaiah instructed us: "I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair" (Isaiah 50: 6).

"All this notwithstanding, we do not escape this continued maltreatment which well nigh crushes us. No matter how we suffer and elect to remain at peace with them {i.e. the Arab Muslims}, they stir up strife and sedition, as David says, 'I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war' (Psalm 120: 7)."

- from Moses ben Maimon/ Maimonides, Iggeret Taimon (Epistle to Yemen),, ed. by A S Halkin, tr. by B. Cohen, New York, 1952, pp. ii and xviii; reproduced in Bat Yeor, "The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam", pp. 351-52.

Maimonides doesn't seem to think that the Arab/Muslim treatment of Jews was as wonderful as *you* seem to think it was.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 21, 2008 12:52 AM

Your assumption is a judgment and I think you know me better than that from our previous exchanges

My apologies. I truly enjoyed our previous exchanges. I'm afraid time has jaded me a bit; you're willingness to dialogue positively is rare.

Re: "new Palestinians and Arabs who are eager to have Peace and join the train of civilization."

Can you show them to me? All I see is Hamas, Fatah, Pallywood, frauds (e.g. Al-Dura), broken hudnas, suicide bombers, constant saber rattling, petrol nation manipulation of UN and Eurpean policies against Israel, etc. Frankly, I don't like what I see. I don't believe you mean the "peace" of Dar-al-Islam over Israel.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at July 21, 2008 2:30 AM

Negotiating with terrorist? Wow, now that's one of the smartest things to do.

It's like the negotiator in a hostage situation providing the hostage-takers with new passports and visa in a country with no extradition laws. If there's something the world doesn't want to do, if there's only ONE thing the world doesn't want to do it is negotiating with terrorists and letting them know they have leverage.

Posted by: AtheistAfghan at July 21, 2008 4:51 AM

Another "Palestinian" clamoring for peace:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25794482/

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at July 22, 2008 10:19 AM