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In recent headlines, three American converts to Islam—Gregory Patterson, Levar Wasington, and Kevin James—were recently arrested and tried for intending to wage jihad against the U.S. They are by no means the first American converts to Islam to go terrorist.
There was Christopher Paul, who was tried for conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction; John Walker Lindh, who, as a “warrior of Islam,” was captured post 9/11 fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan; “Azzam the American” (formerly “Adam Gadahn”) who, after being graciously introduced by al-Qaeda leader Aymin Zawahiri on a video made some months ago proceeded to harangue and mock his fellow Americans—including JW’s own Robert Spencer—into abandoning Christianity and submitting to Allah; and Jose Padilla (aka “Abdullah al-Muhajir”).
Then, of course, there are the countless European converts. There’s the British “shoe-bomber,” Abdul Rahim (formerly “Richard Reid”) who attempted to achieve “martyrdom” by detonating explosives in his shoes while aboard a passenger aircraft; the late Abdullah Shaheed (formerly “Germaine Lindsay”) who did achieve “martyrdom” by killing himself and 56 of his fellow citizens, and injuring over 700, in the London bombings of 2005; and Abu Abdullah (original name unknown), the native Briton turned fiery Islamist preacher who, before finally being arrested, made no secret of his vitriolic hatred of the West (all, of course, while enjoying Western liberties, such as freedom of speech).
At any rate, what causes such men, born and raised in the West, often from Christian backgrounds, to abandon their heritage, embrace Islam, and conspire to kill the very people they grew up with?
As for Islam’s “intrinsic” appeal, it has long been argued that, unlike Christianity, which can be "heavy" on theology, Islam is relatively simple and straightforward. So while Christianity revolves around metaphysical concepts and topics, such as the Trinity, Christology, the nature of salvation, grace, free-will vs election, and the futility of the law, Islam, in black and white terms, commands its adherents to do this and not do that. In fact, the Arabic word “sharia,” that comprehensive body of laws Muslims must follow, means the “pathway”—as in, “the pathway to paradise.” (In pre-Islamic Arabic, of course, it specifically means pathway to water for camels.)
Yet there is another more subtle factor that makes Islam attractive, especially to men. Traditional masculine roles are well preserved in Islam—the sort that have been the norm for almost all societies, including Christian and Western, up until recently. Pride, honor, courage, patriarchy, and a sharp division between the sexes are at the core of Islam’s social mores. This may appeal to Western men who find it difficult to assert their “manhood” in increasingly neutered Western societies. Harvey Mansfield, author of Manliness, defines that term as “a quality both bad and good, mostly male, often intolerant, irrational, and ambitious. Our gender-neutral society does not like it but cannot get rid of it.”
With an ethical code that coalesced in an extremely un-neutered 7th century, Islam today is an avenue for men attracted to the most exaggerated, patriarchal styles of manliness. Even philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, who despised organized religions due to their emasculating effects and who preached the need for man to be transformed into an amoral “hyper-man,” professed some admiration for Islam, describing it as “masculine” and “affirmative.”
Of course, traditional masculine roles are not the sole domain of Islam. As previously mentioned, historically almost every civilization has lived in accordance to “masculine-centric” norms; “gender-neutral” societies are historic aberrations. It is only natural, then, that disaffected young men living in a “postmodern” West, who feel that they do not fit into a “gender-neutral” society, find a religion which emphasizes traditional masculinity appealing.
John Walker Lindh especially seems to fit this category. Precipitating his conversion to Islam was his teenage discovery that his father was homosexual—an event that, by all accounts, traumatized and alienated Lindh. Islam’s masculine ideals and condemnation of homosexuality undoubtedly baited young Lindh, who soon after his father left his mother and moved in with another man, converted to Islam at age 16.
The main reason, of course, that Islam possesses what are seen as “masculine virtues,” has to do with the fact that its very essence is trapped in the 7th century—when, as the saying goes, men were men, for good or ill. Such is the “golden era” of Islam, when the Muslim prophet Muhammad, paragon of all Islamic virtue, whom Sunnis are exhorted to emulate in every possible way, walked the earth, sword in hand, accepting no insult, and conquering his”infidel” neighbors.
But just as traditional masculine virtues are upheld in Islamic culture, so too do traditionally masculine vices abound—for it is often a very fine line that separates hyper-virtue from hyper-vice. Honor, courage, as well as patriarchic ethics can and do (as Jihad Watch daily documents) easily morph into destructive pride (e.g. “honor killings”), disdain for life (e.g. suicide-bombings), and misogyny.
Nor is that all. For those more “adventurous” men looking to add a bit of “excitement” to their lives, Islam offers avenues. Based on the Koran and Muhammad’s history, raiding, killing, and plundering infidels, abducting their women and enslaving their children, are all legitimate, so long as they are at least nominally done in the “service” of Islam. In fact, that is exactly how the Islamic prophet and first Muslims spread Islam, as attested by the Koran and other sacred texts and histories—all written and compiled by Muslims themselves.
Of course such behavior was somewhat “normal” in the 7th century. Then, wherever one looked, men of all races, creeds, and religions were raiding, pillaging, and plundering their neighbors. In Islam, however, the actions of one 7th century man—Muhammad—are seen as perfect and to be literally emulated today no less than yesterday. The Koran declares: “O you who believe [i.e. Muslims]: wage war on those infidels who live near to you, and let them discover harshness in you” (9:123; see also, 9:5 and 9:29). After defeating the infidels, the faithful are free to enjoy the plunder and captives, which are described as “lawful and good” in Koran 8: 69 (see also 8:67, 48: 20-21, and 69: 30-37.) Moreover, any moral scruples the potential jihadi may experience over such barabarous practices -- that is, should his conscience momentarily get the best of him -- immediately dissipate in light of Allah’s explicit approval. For instance: “Married women are prohibited to you [Muslims]—but not those taken captive in war” and “Successful indeed are the Believers who … restrain their carnal desires, except with their wives and captives” (Koran 4:24 and 23:6 see also 33:50-52, emphasis added).
Little wonder that Islam appeals to certain Western men over Christianity: it comports much better with man’s most carnal lusts—for war, booty, and women—than do Jesus’ teachings, such as “turn the other cheek,” “pray for those who persecute you,” and “he who lusts after a woman in his heart has already committed adultery.” Even Islam’s version of paradise is far more alluring—there, rivers of alcohol and super-natural, “high-bosomed” women await the holy-warrior who dies battling infidels (see Koran 47:15, 78:31, 37:40-48, 44:51-55, 52:17-20, 55:56-58, 55:70-77, 56:7-40).
And so like mischievous little boys who find the pirate life-style fascinating—raiding, killing, plundering, abducting (not to mention hiding in caves)—so, undoubtedly, do some Western men find the lifestyle of the Islamic warrior fascinating. And so they convert. Perhaps even more telling is the fact that the physical appearance of some of radical Islam’s most charismatic heroes is reminiscent of those wily pirates of legend, such as the furtive Taliban leader “One-Eyed” Mullah Muhammad Omar, or, more illustrative, London’s radical ideologue Abu Hamza, who not only is one-eyed, but also has a metal hook for a hand which he used to shake menacingly when referring to infidels. (Like Walt Disney’s “Captain Hook,” he is affectionally referred to by his followers simply as “The Hook”…)
None of this is to say that Muslims in general are murderers, plunderers, hedonists, or misogynists. It is to say, however, that very valid interpretations of the Koran and Islamic history certainly justify and make such behavior, under the rubric of “religion,” legal for any would-be Muslim (“If it was ok for Muhammad and the first Muslims, it must be ok for us”).
Further revealing is the fact that many of the aforementioned proselytes had criminal records previous to their conversion to Islam: Reid and Abdullah had convictions for muggings, Padilla for gangster activity, and Lindsay for drug-dealing. Not to mention the vast majority of American blacks who convert to Islam while serving time in prison. Most recently, the Californian jihadists began their "cell" while serving time in prison, under the leadership of James; Patterson and Washington conducted over a dozen armed robberies previously.
One of the reasons ex-cons turn to religion is to change their evil ways. Not so these Westerners turned Islamic terrorists. It would seem that they turned to Islam merely to receive divine sanctioning to gorge their villainous appetites. From being petty criminals, they went on to embrace Islam and became major criminals—terrorists and traitors.
Posted by Raymond at July 26, 2008 5:37 PM
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The truth is, Islam permits and glorifies all of this. Islam's greatest heroes Khalid bin Waleed, Omar bin Khitab, Mohammad bin Qassim, Tariq bin Ziyad are all people who achieved their fame and glorification by looting plundering non-Muslim lands.
You'd be surprised at how many newborn Pakistani, Indian and Middle Eastern Muslims are named after Osama bin Laden. For the average Muslim, he's a hero. A hero who killed thousands of innocent civilians.
It's a tactic that will forever work. As long as you label it Islamic, anything, including muder, torture, suicide bombings, arson and burglary are all fair and sqaure.
Posted by: AtheistAfghan![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at July 26, 2008 7:04 PM
If islam is truly the "religion of peace," why, then, does it disproportionately attract violent people?
If I were inclined to commit an act of terrorism, I would certainly embrace a cult like islam if for no other reason than for the reward of an eternal sexual paradise and the substantial support of a deity who craves sadism, and of 1.2 BILLION people who would worship a pedophile. All that for killing innocent, unarmed civilians. What could be easier?
Posted by: DJM at July 26, 2008 7:10 PM
The chance of adventure and conflict, assertion of masculine and martial values, seeing oneself as a predator etc etc were, of course, a major part of the appeal of fascism and Nazi-ism to young men.
Posted by: wallyUK at July 26, 2008 7:20 PM
If islam is truly the "religion of peace," why, then, does it disproportionately attract violent people?
Posted by: DJM at July 26, 2008 7:10 PM
A good question, which even president Bush must not have asked, else he would not parrot this: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html
Then again, what else could a wahhabbi puppet say?
Anyway, coming to your question, you see, deception is another pillar of Islam. Knowing that the hostility, sinister goals and the means to achieve them are inherently violent, any disclosure of those means and goals would alert the "enemy". So, in order to overpower the "enemy" with minimum resistance, Islam has sanctioned deception, lies, half-truths and finally submission to it's cult, by which, the victim, if not killed, is made to join the infamous ranks, thus swelling the number. needless to add, the victim who swells the number, has no way out as leaving Islam is punishable by death, which most victims are unaware of, until too late.
Umma is a oldest mafia cartel.
at July 26, 2008 7:39 PM
Perhaps another allure is the Islamic sense of superiority and right to power bestowed on even the lowliest person simply through the magic of belief. The Koran harps endlessly on all the rewards and privileges for believers, and on all the punishments of the doubters and Infidels. It's a great balm to the nebbish ego.
It's no accident that Islam makes big inroads among those of low social standing. Nazism and other doctrines of superiority have had similar appeal. Add to that Islam's warlike nature and that spells trouble.
at July 26, 2008 8:15 PM
Interesting that "sharia" means the road or path---this is also the meaning of the Hebrew "halacha," which describes Jewish law. Amazing how much of Judaism the Muslims borrowed.
Posted by: Family Values at July 26, 2008 8:47 PM
Fascinating discussion.
I doubt anything along the lines of gender studies would broach the subject, as it would involve critically evaluating a non-Western culture in a realm where relativism is king, because it's the differences that make us all special, just like everyone else.
But if they did, one item that would hopefully come up is that "masculinity" and "manhood" are not monolithic (put your Buzzword Bingo cards away). Though biology plays an obvious role, standards and idealized attributes vary by culture.
And who is the ideal man in the Islamic world? Muhammad, per Qur'an 33:21. I can't think of an instance in which Allah told Muhammad "No, you can't have that." And thus the "ideal" man, by successive "revelations" that became the basis for Islamic law, gradually got everything he wanted -- land, dominion, women, exalted status, and immunity from insult. Not surprisingly, all of those remain points of contention where Islamic law comes in contact with the west.
Posted by: MarisolJW at July 26, 2008 8:55 PM
l find the actions of Muslim men to be that of a teenager mentality, there is no self control, and they are given to their urges under the guise of a religon bent of control of women/non-muslims and people who are free thinkers.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at July 26, 2008 9:11 PM
Not to put too much of a simplistic slant on it but I have believed for a long time now that the selling point of islam to so called "disaffected youths" is sex. 72 virgins anyone?
The whole shooting party (excuse the pun) is based on this.
The gender apartheid we see in islam produces sexually repressed males, unable to form relationships with females which in turn leads to sexual expression through male bonding with their "brothers".
The hatred muslims have for homosexuals is an inbuilt islamic denial of their own behaviour.
This sexual repression, along with other good things in life that islam prohibits like fine wine for instance, are of course available in the hereafter in copious amounts.
Would the total body covering of the muslim female be a design to halt the male becoming sated and not interested in the hereafter, therefore not interested in fighting with the rest of the "brothers" to the death to achieve islams aim?
Posted by: Ken CleanAirSystem at July 26, 2008 10:09 PM
Interesting that "sharia" means the road or path---this is also the meaning of the Hebrew "halacha," which describes Jewish law. Amazing how much of Judaism the Muslims borrowed. (Family Values)
No, not borrowed - stole. And then perverted. Par for the course in Islam.
Posted by: commonsense at July 26, 2008 10:11 PM
Margaret Meade: "The problem in every society is what to do with the men."
StillBreathing: "They who do not accept a healthy patriarchy will help to bring about an unhealthy one."
Posted by: StillBreathing at July 26, 2008 10:11 PM
I think your comments about why people convert are astute, but I never find western converts as a cause to worry. They will always be tiny in number.
http://farleftwatch.wordpress.com/
at July 26, 2008 10:29 PM
72 virgins are enough to make them kill.
Posted by: theygottago at July 26, 2008 10:35 PM
"....trapped in the 7th century—when, as the saying goes, men were men...." quoted from the above article
Please allow me to finish this thought. "When men were men, and sheep, uh camels, were nervous." This isn't exactly a new thought for me. I have long held that islam is but a juvenile philosophy, if that is not too large a word to use for islam. It is juvenile right up there with socialism. It allows under developed men (emotionally and intellectually) to reign supreme over their little worlds. they are allowed to give into their most basest passions without having to worry about the outcome. They can behave like they are kings but yet have a guide by which to live their lives. Think of teens. As teens we wanted space, freedom, license to do what we wanted. Of course our parents are expected to provide with everything we need. All he fun, none of the work. Hence why islam and socialism are one in the same. Socialism provides for a government that takes care of us, "frees" us from the burden of choices and consequences. But in reality all that has been done is one authoritative entity is replaced by another. Instead of having parents to tell a teen on how to live, work, etc., it is government, or islam. Every so often a question is asked. And we have all been asked this question, if you could, would you go back and do it all over again. For me, the answer is indubitably, No. You couldn't pay me enough to be a teen again. But yet many in our government want just that. And islam, well it is a juvenile "religion", founded by a juvenile and blood thirsty man. I can see why such "men" as listed in this article would choose islam. It's no different than their lives before. Some one to guide them on their "paths" but yet willing to allow them to entertain their most basest of desires/instincts. They are the equivalent to the basement bound 40 year old still living off of mom and dad because he can't handle rejection/criticism.
Posted by: Kevin at July 26, 2008 10:36 PM
Male jihadi's top 5 fears:
1) Premature detonation
2) Neighbor's evil chihuahua
3 Satan did not actually leave nose in the morning, but is still hanging around up there somewhere
4) Mohammed was kidding about the 72 virgins
5) Wives finding out about local satanic kaffir gym's kickboxing classes
Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at July 26, 2008 10:36 PM
This particular article and all of the posts above are basic testimony to the fact that Islam is for males who refuse to grow up, while all of the other major religions, irrespective of ultimate truth, are for real men. Conclusion: much of the idiocy which is found in Islam is due to testosterone badly directed. And yet again I say to the Muslim world, congratulations for doing it stupidly yet one more time.
Posted by: Wellington at July 26, 2008 10:46 PM
Ahh, the heartbreak of Premature Detonation!
Posted by: John C at July 26, 2008 10:49 PM
Many muslim men today are afflicted with Premature Detonation. Otherwise known as PD. PLease help. PD can be corrected with judicious use of that anti-PD med, Semtex. Under no circumstances should the sufferer use homemade, OTC brands, or homeopathic remedies, as this will lead to problems of an explosive nature. This is a serious problem plaguing muslim men. So please, give today. Help a muslim fulfill his wet dream, er, lifelong ambition.
Posted by: Kevin at July 26, 2008 10:59 PM
Marwan'sDaughter Wrote:
Male jihadi's top 5 fears:
. . . . . . .
4) Mohammed was kidding about the 72 virgins
. . . . . . .
That's right. What they really are going to get is 72 VIRGINIANS, all of them volunteers from Stonewall Jackson's Virginia Brigade, all of them armed with bullwhips, and all of them with blood in their eyes and spitting tobacco juice . . .
at July 26, 2008 11:08 PM
They walk the path in the shade of swords fervently proclaiming its beauty, oblivious to the wrecked lives and broken bodies that pave its way.
And the architect of the path, an illiterate man, thief, murderer, rapist, enslaver, gets “prophet” and “peace be upon him” with his name to say.
at July 26, 2008 11:08 PM
I think that Islam is a "bad boy" religion.
It's the religious equivalent of joining the hell's angels.
You can get to go to training camps where you can learn to blow up other people, including yourself.
Posted by: Voltaire at July 26, 2008 11:17 PM
Excellent points, Marisol.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 27, 2008 1:26 AM
Excellent post Raymond, which I am going to print and distribute far and wide.
Posted by: Dsinc at July 27, 2008 1:52 AM
islam is what the mafia wants to be when it grows up...
Posted by: Joseph of Carpentry at July 27, 2008 2:02 AM
'The Hook' is my favorite Imam. He came up with a swell idea, WMD, 'Women of Mass Destruction'. He was not talking about suicidal women, he was suggesting that muslimah's have children for the express purpose of making bombs of them. Nice guy...
As far as I can tell, a muslims greatest personal concern and fear, is that he/she may not get into Allah's Paradise. Mohammad said that only one in a thousand muslims would get into Paradise, and space was limited to 70,000. Allah never promised all muslims entry, in fact he supposedly created some just so he could burn them. Even the most devout and pure muslim may not gain entry...unless killed in jihad. Then, and only then is there a guarantee. This is psychological slavery, designed to keep muslims in line, hoping to be pure enough to pass Allah's tests. And many won't no matter how pure they are. The only guarantee is to die in jihad.
And we know what is waiting there in the gardens with rivers running under them, and lakes of wine, fruit, and a never ending supply of hot babes, not to mention the boys pure as pearls. All items not available to most of them in the physical world.
Want to close the gate to Allah's brothel, close the gates of jihad.
But the gates will never be closed because this is the only sure way to get to those virgins, and all that fruit. Apples, oranges, peaches, yummy.
Continuous warfare is required to keep the gate open. Dar al-harb must never be actually defeated.
Only fought on a continuous basis, here or there,
but fought. Islamic victory must never be complete. Dar al-harb is destined to be the jihadi's spring board to the seventy two, forever, unless filthy kufrs put a stop to it.
'Thank you dar al-harb for giving me the way and means to Allah's Paradise'...'Now take me to my virgins'...
And guess what, it's all about sex...and violence, and manipulation of not so smart muslims, by those who are smart.
And the kufr's of the world are going to pay for it, and have been paying for it, unless we wise
up. We pay with our lives so that some horny jihadi can get to the virgins...Good for him, bad for us...a bum deal for harb.
Stop muslim immigration...that's a gate we can close right now...
at July 27, 2008 2:17 AM
"'The Hook' is my favorite Imam.."
Here he is again:
http://sheikyermami.com/2006/12/20/abu-hamza/
at July 27, 2008 5:43 AM
Raymond:
That was a pleasure to read.
And Kevin who posted at 10:36 PM, that was a pleasure to read, also.
The grown ups seem to be few and far between, but they do exist.
Posted by: Moonzoo at July 27, 2008 7:42 AM
The permitted violence with the promise of eternal sex explains the draw for men, but what is the draw for women?
That is the question that keeps me up at night (not literally). Women in islam experience submission, repression, beatings, and possibly murder at the hands of her father, brother or husband, with no promise after death.
What is the attraction for women? Why is this not a religion killed off by lack of fertility?
Posted by: walterc at July 27, 2008 9:25 AM
Alert: "Umma is a oldest mafia cartel."
Funny you should mention the mafia. In the 1970's, the Italian-American Civil Rights league campaigned to have the terms "mafia" and "cosa nostra" removed from governmental language. They claimed the terms were offensive and were stereotyping Italian-Americans.
The move was effective. Negative public opinions about those criminals involved with organized crime dropped dramatically. The federal government had to curb investigations to avoid suggestions of racism or bias.
The irony was that the Italian-American Civil Rights league was not formed by concerned Italian-Americans fighting undeserved criminal stereotypes. It was formed by mafia boss Joseph Colombo.
Sound familiar?
Posted by: DJM at July 27, 2008 10:59 AM
Walterc, it's not like the women have a choice, is it?
Posted by: Vee at July 27, 2008 11:01 AM
"StillBreathing: "They who do not accept a healthy patriarchy will help to bring about an unhealthy one."
StillBreathing,
Can you cite an example of a "healthy" patriarchy?
Posted by: Abscedere at July 27, 2008 11:08 AM
pathway for camel's now that is rich!
Posted by: Thinking_One at July 27, 2008 11:28 AM
The other striking thing about western converts to islam is just how many of them are feckless, aimless losers. The spread of islam within western prison populations is evidence of that.
They can't become high achievers in western society, so they join a sect which sanctions obnoxious and violent behaviour towards that society.
Posted by: Monty at July 27, 2008 11:28 AM
"This may appeal to Western men who find it difficult to assert their “manhood” in increasingly neutered Western societies."
Sounds like a new definition of "manhood" is in order, then.
Raymond, do you really believe that Western women are responsible for gender neutrality in Western societies? If so, I'm very disappointed.
To begin with, there is no gender neutrality.
Women still bring less money home than do men.
Women are still subject to antiquated coverture laws, which prevent a married woman from changing her will and her insurance beneficiaries, without the signature of her husband. (It does not work that way, in reverse. A man may change his will and dispose of his property in any way, at any time he wishes, without his wife's permission.)
Women pay more for auto insurance and for stupid things like clothing and dry cleaning.
If Western men can't be men without women playing the part of lesser beings, then there's no hope for our societies in the battle to contain and reverse Islam. Like it or not, you gentlmen need women.
Women (and the rights they fought for) are not responsible for driving immature men to Islam.
Posted by: Abscedere at July 27, 2008 11:33 AM
"That is the question that keeps me up at night (not literally). Women in islam experience submission, repression, beatings, and possibly murder at the hands of her father, brother or husband, with no promise after death.
What is the attraction for women? Why is this not a religion killed off by lack of fertility?"
Actually it is : muslims don't care for their children, not in the emotional sense, but especially not in the economic sense. The opposite of Christianity. They create them, but they look at them like you and I would look at a stray dog : keeps coming back, sometimes even useful, but generally something to kick out of the house when you see them.
Ever notice how muslim lands are desolate ? Esp. compared to Christian lands. Compare France with Jordan. Both not that remarkable countries, but in France you can't go 20 km and not meet a village. You can walk through the entirety of Jordan and not meet a single living soul. In fact, Israeli frequently do. There are large "muslim" areas but a trivial inspection will yield a baffling result : they're empty. Before the rise of islam you'd walk in Saudi Arabia and you'd constantly meet villages and people. There weren't any more people, but much more widespread. Jews and Christians, atheists were found almost exclusively in the larger cities, like medina or jerusalem.
This is also a comparison that can be trivially seen in Israel. Israel is a country of villages. Many villages, slowly merging into a big city. Gaza is one central point, shrinking, not growing. But esp. in the west bank this is visible : there are 3 very large cities and basically nothing outside them (don't tell them but most berbers near the dead sea aren't actually moslems). The west bank is a large stretch of land and in about 2/3rds of it you will never meet a living soul.
Same with Lebanon. Southern Lebanon is (or was very recently) Christian. Villages everywhere. Then move to the muslim areas, like the bekaa valley : nothing. One big spec, but no smaller specs. You will see this pattern repeat in all muslim countries.
In Christianity the image of a childhood is the holy family, all gathered around the crib of the little kid, celebrating the warmth of the family, around a cozy fire that's there for everyone to enjoy. The home of a christian child is, well, basically christmas. An open fire, warmth in the hands of mother, father bringing in a nice dish. To take care of your children is taken to extremes in Christianity. Children are, first and foremost, to become the equals of the father (or mother), and if possible, to become better than their parents.
In islam, a childs home is the street. Children are a burden, not a boon, and certainly not celebrated. No birthdays, no festive days. Certainly no personal rewards for accomplishments. Children are forced onto the street, forced to fend for themselves.
Just like under a communist system, or a socialist system muslims become infertile, very simple, because of the muslim government. Just like russians had no problems whatsoever related to reproduction (rather the opposite) before the tsar fell.
So what is causing all the problems ? Well why don't you go to Sana'a and check ? It's simple really. You will find that large white bags of grain are the cause. Upon further inspection you will find something distressing : they read "U.S. marine corps". Strange isn't it ? Well not really : it's UN food aid. Making sure muslims don't actually have to care for their children.
Social security is doing the same thing in Europe, but "better" (as in causing a bigger disaster). It's preventing neglected children from dying, with the result that these neglected children have children of their own, and ... neglect them. This is the real problematic group of people, and it's long since become more than 50% of the european population (esp. in the cities), and it's not just moslems.
This comparative lack of social security is what's causing muslims to integrate (relatively speaking) in the US. If people die of neglect (as opposed to having life support "forced upon them", without anything to do), then islam will never get anywhere.
In reality it's just the human race as a whole reacting to a new economic reality, through genetic (mostly memetic) "natural" selection : if people don't have to care for themselves (which obviously carries a big cost) then they won't (avoid the cost, without losing the value). So if people are kept on life support, sometimes even against their will, they will stop caring for, first eachother, then even themselves.
What is the appeal for women ? Superiority. Plain and simple. I'm sure you've seen women react to (mostly imagined) superiority. Take fashion for example. Ever notice how married women are more interested in fashion than unmarried women ? Now how could that possibly be true ? Shouldn't dressing attractively be useful to, well, attract ? Or are all these women cheating spouses ? Obviously it's neither : they need the superiority feeling. Fashion serves to distinguish women from eachother, not to attract anyone. It serves to inspire jealousy. And then you realise the obvious consequence of this : for a woman, a burqa, or even never leaving the house, can be more fashionable than the latest paris fashions. Never leaving the house can be proof of your superiority, clearly being able to have servants do everything that needs to be done. Especially since it means never having to confront yourself with your own utter unremarkableness.
Note that nazism didn't (and doesn't) have any problem to attract (supposedly nurtering) women, especially young ones, who are fully aware of the movements aspirations of restarting the final solution. Then again restarting the "final solution" is both islam and communism's wet dream. What they don't realise is that this final solution will, first and foremost, eradicate muslims and communists, not so much self-reliant Jews and Christians.
The reality is that for both nazism and islam their doom can be guaranteed in a number of ways ... you could let them win (or think they won, or isolate them, all will create the same problems). That would destroy islam in at most 100 years, but probably only 30. Look at what's happening inside Iran, and what was happening before 1950 ... well, everywhere.
Or you could fight them. But you'll have to fight for every meter, and you'll have to kill, kill and then kill some more, including "civilians" (there are no civilian muslims, anymore than there are civilian wolves : all fight, only the method varies). It will eventually work (esp. since muslims have been known to lose when outnumbering the enemy 200 to 1 or more, so militarily they're, to say the least, exceedingly weak, and weak (but ruthless) organisations can crush a much larger muslim opponent, as has happened tons of times in muslim history)
Another trivial way to get rid of islam altogether : destroy the energy infrastructure of the west, making it impractical, or exceedingly expensive to use immigration as a weapon, and necessitating tons of work by parents to nurture their children.
In any case, for the long term you can sleep on both ears : whatever happens, in 1000 years (and unless we are careful in 100 years) the world will be, once again, deeply christian and the muslims finished, or, at the very best, deeply isolated, a minute fringe group at best. The question is how much of the west will have to die with it. Clearly it's quite a significant part.
Posted by: tomcpp at July 27, 2008 6:34 PM
Congratulations, Raymond, for a post with many excellent insights. The article and discussion reminds me of this earlier post by Marisol:
"Leading expert" again cites Jihadists' "boredom"
http://jihadwatch.org/archives/020246.php
... and my conclusions at the time:
Former CIA officer and now author Marc Sageman says that the latest jihadis taking up the global call for action more closely resemble criminal gang members than religious fanatics.
Duh, religious fanatics are criminal gangs. How many stories of these suicidal nuts in the streets did it take for the good doctor to realize these idiots are juvenile delinquents, systematically sexually frustrated losers, led by sexually frustrated adult delinquents?
"They are looking for glory ... thrills, and a sense of belonging to a group," he said in a recent presentation.
"There is a thrill and excitement attached to belonging to the vanguard of a violent social movement that is irresistible."
So. There's nothing new here, from either the delinquent or fanatic aspect, it's just another Hitler Youth movement. This "realization" doesn't change a thing.
....
Posted by: RalphInfidel at March 10, 2008 6:31 PM
Posted by: RalphInfidel at July 28, 2008 3:24 AM
Capt. Mullah & his parrot Mahmoud!
Capt: "Yarrr!!! Come join me crew!! We'll sail the seven seas, spreadin' our disease!"
Parrot: "Rawk....uranium for energy....Rawk....destroy the west...Rawk!"
Uh.....
Posted by: americanmadestrat at July 28, 2008 10:23 AM
If some people decide to become terrorists they will have to convert to islam.
Posted by: American at July 28, 2008 10:51 AM
First of all, if my comments are not printed in their entirety, then none of you have the right to say anything about freedom of speech. Oh, you mean that if you are not a Christian, a Jew or at least a lesbian or a homosexual, your comments are not welcome here….
It is amazing to me how ignorant so called 'intellectuals' are about Islam. I have never seen so many misquotes about the Qu'ran and Muslim belief in one place before. If I wanted to know about Christianity, do you think I should go out and buy a book written by a Muslim? Or should I get a book written by George Bush? Or should I try to find a book written by a normal, knowledgeable Christian? It depends on whether I am looking for the truth about Christianity, or if I am looking to support my personal slanted views. I honestly don't have the time or space to point out all the mistakes you people made here.
I run a center for Western Muslim Converts. I have never, in all my years (I have been Muslim for 20 years and seen countless people embrace Islam) heard of a single Westerner who embraced Islam for sex, 72 virgins or anything of the like.
Westerners embrace Islam because the basic tenets of Islamic Belief make sense:
1) Belief in one God (for any of you really ignorant people who said things like: The Muslims worship Aalah, or Allah's paradise – as if only Muslims worship Allah – better get an Arabic copy of the Bible or the Torah and check what name those poor Arab Christian and Arab Jews use for God – oops – its Allah. Allah means the Creator and Sustainer of the Heavens and the Earth- God Almighty)
2) Belief in the Angels that God Created.
3) Belief in the Prophets that God sent to mankind
4) Belief in the Revelations that God Revealed to mankind.
5) Belief in Life after Death – the Day of Judgment – Heaven and Hell
6) Belief in Destiny, the good and the bad therein.
On the Day of Judgment, all of us will be judged for our Faith and our Deeds. In other words, did you believe in God, in his Prophets, Life after Death, etc. And if you did believe, what did you do to prepare for the next life? Pray, fast, give charity, etc. This is what Islam is all about – ask any Muslim in your neighborhood.
Oh, that's right; you only talk to extremists to find out what Muslims believe in. With all the 1000's of Mosques in the USA and Europe and you couldn't find a single normal (main stream) Muslim convert to talk to? That is because you don't want to hear the truth about Islam, but you only want to support your own ideas.
Or is it that the Jews who propagate these type of websites have another agenda? Hey Christians, we are your friends. Forget that we murdered your God and called his mother a whore. We are really close buddies. It's these frikin Mozlems we gotta keep a watch on….
Posted by: American Muslim Convert at July 30, 2008 5:22 AM
American Muslim Convert:
It is amazing to me how ignorant so called 'intellectuals' are about Islam. I have never seen so many misquotes about the Qu'ran and Muslim belief in one place before.
I'm sorry, but can't you come up with anything better than this tired smear? I have only been charged with misquoting the Qur'an and misrepresenting Muslim belief about, oh, ten million times. And yet, there's a funny thing: neither you nor any of the other Muslims who have made the charge have ever, ever, brought forward even one single example of this alleged misquoting and misrepresentation.
"Bring your proof, if you be truthful."
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at July 30, 2008 5:53 AM
Robert Spencer
First of all, I am honored to have the author of the article to be the first to respond to my comments, and I have to give you credit, where is credit is due. You did have the guts to post all of my comments, word for word.
To be honest, when I wrote about all the mistakes and misquotes, it was after reading all the comments posted to your article. I saw that most of them seemed to be posted by highly educated people with very eloquent writing. So it was amazing to me how ignorant about Islam so many of them really were. So, honestly, I was directing my comments more at them, than at you. However, I have now taken the time to re-read your article and promise to bring you a proof of your misquote and misunderstanding of our belief. Of course there is no room here to discuss all of the quotes you have made.
If someone really wants to know what a certain verse of the Qu'ran refers to or means, there are many Muslim Scholars as well as American Muslim Converts who have studied the religion deeply (not myself – I hold down a full time job) who can give very studious and accurate explanations. (Please note that not one of the converts you mentioned in your article are in this category.) I will mention just one (there are hundreds available) – www.bakkah.net – a site by Mr. Richardson, an American who embraced Islam and is what we call a 'Student of Knowledge', which means that although he is not a scholar, he has taken the time to acquire quite a bit of knowledge about Islam. Of course, this is only for people who really want to know the truth about the meaning of the Qu'ran, not for someone who is only looking for a certain understanding or angle. Quoting and trying to understand the Qu'ran out of context, without knowing when and in what circumstances it was revealed, is sometimes worse than misquoting it altogether. No Christian or Jew would like me to quote the Bible or the Torah out of context, and imply the obvious meaning of the words. And if I wanted to really know about the meaning of a strange verse in the Bible, shouldn't I ask a Christian Scholar? Or should I ask someone like the late David Koresh? Oh, maybe I should ask George Bush, isn't he a fundamentalist Christian? Or maybe I should ask a real idiot like Abu Hamza. (It is hard to find someone stupider than George Bush, but Abu Hamza pretty much plays the part)
The real point I want to make about your article Robert, is this:
Little wonder that Islam appeals to certain Western men over Christianity: it comports much better with man’s most carnal lusts—for war, booty, and women—than do Jesus’ teachings, such as “turn the other cheek,” “pray for those who persecute you,” and “he who lusts after a woman in his heart has already committed adultery.” Even Islam’s version of paradise is far more alluring—there, rivers of alcohol and super-natural, “high-bosomed” women await the holy-warrior who dies battling infidels (see Koran 47:15, 78:31, 37:40-48, 44:51-55, 52:17-20, 55:56-58, 55:70-77, 56:7-40).
I am sorry Robert, but no matter how you try to insult our belief in Heaven, this is not the reason people embrace Islam. If you want to debate about Christian and Jewish views concerning women's rights vs Islam's views, you will lose again. Up until recently Christians were in doubt if women even had souls that could be saved. If we look at orthodox Jews, we will find similar views to the Muslims. This is really a whole different debate. But the bottom line is that this is not the reason why Westerners, or anyone else, enters into Islam. At least I have never witnessed a single person entering into to Islam for these reasons in all my years doing work propagating Islam.
Islam is the fasting growing religion in the Western nations. This is a fact, like it or not. If you wanted to know why a Westerner embraced the religion of Islam, why didn't you ask one? The ten Muslim converts you mentioned in your article, by any stretch of the imagination, do not represent us. For any of your readers who really want to know why an American, or a British man or woman would become a Mulsim, the answer is as close as your nearest mosque. I challenge any of you to go down to your local mosque and find a Muslim convert with the same ideology as the people you mentioned in your article. Just find one….. Where is the proof Robert???
There are literally hundreds of books available written by or about American Muslims and Western Muslim converts explaining why exactly they embraced Islam. Google people……
You wanted a mistake, here is one mistake that you made. You misquoted:
"rivers of alcohol"
The Muslims believe that many rivers run in the Gardens of Heaven. We only know of one of these rivers which have an alcoholic drink, which is delicious to those who drink. This drink is clarified in Surah 76:21 and Surah 83: 25-28
So you have made a mistake is saying "rivers" instead of the correct "river" and you called it a river of alcohol, which would not be too tasty. The best translation would probably be wine. We know that this "wine" does not intoxicate, as the wine of this world does, as is explained by the other verses.
If you say that this is a small mistake, well if it took me this much typing to explain your small mistakes, how much would it take me to explain all of them? Again, if someone is seeking the true understanding of any verse of the Qu'ran, it is available from people of knowledge.
Really, it seems to me that you are just trying to belittle the Muslim belief in Heaven. Would you like to debate about the Christian belief in Heaven (oh, which of the 1000's of different denominations should we look at.) vs the Jewish belief in Heaven. Whether it is physical or spiritual? Can you give me a detailed explanation of their beliefs in Heaven? Don't go there Robert…. you will regret it…..
Posted by: American Muslim Convert at July 30, 2008 7:56 AM
"Just like under a communist system, or a socialist system muslims become infertile, very simple, because of the muslim government." tomcpp
Tom, I don't know about the accuracy of the rest of your portrayal of Muslim societies; it is an interesting perspective, and sounds plausible.
However, Muslims apparently do not become infertile. Pakistan's birth rate is 5.08. Saudi Arabia: 4.53. Iran: 2.33 (that is down, for Iran--but still higher than the US at 2.1).
Meanwhile, western Europe (hell, all of Europe) has birth rates well below replacement level and will see rapidly shrinking populations. And Muslims outpace Europeans in Europe. In the EU, non-Muslim women average 1.4 children. Muslim women in the EU have 3.5 children on average.
The average age in the Gaza Strip is 15.8 years old.
Infertility doesn't seem to be a problem. This is one reason so many radical Muslims believe that, even without violent overthrow, they will make Europe Muslim. Non-Muslims are eliminating progeny, while Muslims are mass producing progeny. Sure, more and more seem to like the mass murder of infidel hosts just for the enjoyment of it, but even without it the demographic trend is in their favor. Fertility isn't a problem.
Posted by: d1 at July 30, 2008 11:22 AM
American Muslim Convert:
It does not speak well of your reading comprehension skills that you repeatedly refer to me as the author of this article, when I was not: it was written by Raymond Ibrahim, as is clearly noted in both the title and the "posted by" line.
After that, your telling me how to read the Qur'an properly simply doesn't wash. "River" not "rivers"? Why, that changes everything!
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at July 30, 2008 12:28 PM
American Muslim Convert: Before accusing others of talking of what they do not know, check on yourself. I know that you've heard all about how the crazy Catholics debated the existence of souls in women. But you know -- it's false. They actually never did. Try to trace that back to a source: You can't. It didn't happen. It's like ecclesiastical folklore. Just not true.
You challenge Mr Spencer on whether heaven is physical or spiritual and snark on the 1000s of sects, and oh, how much trouble it'd be to figure it out. (And of course, as all edicts from Muslims directed at infidels tend to, you end with a threat. "Don't go there..." What if he does?)
You've got it figured out. But what you have figured out is the puerile conception of heaven of Islam. (I'm not going to argue that you're wrong: You're right.) It's physical, and physical as an adolescent lecher would conceive heaven: Boobs, booze, fast food, and no wife to interfere. It's hilarious that you argue "rivers" or a "river" of alcohol by saying: There are many rivers, and only one is alcohol, and it's not alcohol, it's wine. Hey, man. If it gets you drunk, alcohol is the category, and it doesn't matter a bit whether it's wine, beer, vodka, Bailey's Irish Cream Liqueur, or Everclear. Oh, but this wine doesn't intoxicate. So is it actually wine? Wine without alcohol? Is it wine made without fermentation? (Ah, yes: Allah can do ANYTHING!)
What you say shows a lack of understanding does not at all. Seems what really bugs you is having been figured out.
Posted by: d1 at July 30, 2008 1:23 PM
Hey there "Muslim Convert." Your postings have come to my attention (by the way, I’m the actual author). Bottom line of my posting: If you take a bunch of guys predisposed to living a life of rapine, adventure, and “amorous” affairs, and offer them two religions – Christianity and Islam – and tell them to chose, better believe they will all go for the latter, just like the pagan Mongols did after conquering much of Eurasia. They contemplated which religion to make their own, Christianity or Islam, and – surprise, surprise! – those wild guys all went for Islam. Yes, I’m sure according to you its because they – ignorant, barbarous savages – saw the “truth” of Islam. Interspersed below are a few comments to some of your “comments”:
“If I wanted to know about Christianity, do you think I should go out and buy a book written by a Muslim?”
Flawed point, since everything I write is derived straight from Muslim sources. In other words, all those issues you have problems with – jihad, misogyny, intolerance for non-Muslims, et al – come straight from, not just your “ulema,” but ultimately Islam’s scriptures. I suggest you read them some time. Start with Robert’s “Truth about Muhammad” and tell me what you make of the fact that all the “negative” things he says about Muhammad come straight from the Koran, hadith, and sira?
"I run a center for Western Muslim Converts. I have never, in all my years (I have been Muslim for 20 years and seen countless people embrace Islam) heard of a single Westerner who embraced Islam for sex, 72 virgins or anything of the like"
Yes, I’m sure would-be converts don’t go around telling everyone their main motivation for conversion is sex: it’s an unspoken, “subconscious” allure.
Incidentally, I named a number of converts to Islam who became terrorists. Won't you please name me a number of Muslim converts to Christianity who became terrorists?
"Belief in one God (for any of you really ignorant people who said things like: The Muslims worship Aalah, or Allah's paradise – as if only Muslims worship Allah – better get an Arabic copy of the Bible or the Torah and check what name those poor Arab Christian and Arab Jews use for God – oops – its Allah. Allah means the Creator and Sustainer of the Heavens and the Earth- God Almighty"
Very good! You know the celestial language, after all. Of course, Arab speaking Christians and Jews call God “Allah” – since, after being conquered by Allah’s minions, and having the Arabic language imposed on them, they used the Arabic word meaning “god” for God. However, Allah and God have little in common. You’d know that if, along with trying to read some of Islam’s scriptures, you read the Bible.
"Islam is the fasting growing religion in the Western nations"
That Muslims procreate much more than Christians does not impress me as to the veracity of Islam. Sorry, I’m particular like that.
"If you say that this is a small mistake, well if it took me this much typing to explain your small mistakes, how much would it take me to explain all of them"
Wow, how utterly ironic. My “huge” mistake (which took you a few hundred words of redundant fluff to get to is that I called a singular, “river,” plural, “rivers.” Amazing, though, wouldn’t you say, that you do the same exact thing? After exhibiting one of my “mistakes,” you write, “it took me this much typing to explain your small mistakes.” Gee, why the plural? You only pointed out that one "mistake." (Also, note how I point out your mistake in one short paragraph, without a bunch of hot air?) But lest I forget, here’s another lesson for you in regards to the dichotomy of literal and idiomatic speech: “rivers” does not necessarily mean more than one river – as in the Tigris and Euphrates – but can be understood in the same manner as when someone says “waters” as opposed to “water.” In other words, when it comes to the concept of “liquid,” the difference between singular and plural is very slippery indeed.
at July 30, 2008 7:50 PM
Thank you both Robert and Raymond for pointing out my mistake about who wrote the article. But after Robert’s comment:
“I'm sorry, but can't you come up with anything better than this tired smear? I have only been charged with misquoting the Qur'an and misrepresenting Muslim belief about, oh, ten million times.” it sure seemed like the guy who made this comment must have been the author… Guess I am going to have to work on those reading comprehension skills… So in fact, it was not the author who was challenging me to come up with just one of his errors – it was Robert – pretending to be the author??? My mistake.
So now I am honored to have both the author of the article and the guy who appears to run the website comment on my postings….
Raymond:
I never claimed to be a professor of English language, but I stand by my statement (the meaning is clear) and the error you made, is still an error. You are going to have to do a bit better than insulting my command of the English language. I never called it a huge error, in fact it was the simplest error that I noticed, so I though I would start with it. Now that I know you are not the guy who “challenged” me to find an error… I apologize.
But you guys need to come down off your high horses. Do you really think you are better than everyone else? You remind of the Born Again Christians who used to debate with me after I embraced Islam. Yes, it’s hard to be well-mannered with the masses, when you are “Saved” with the elite. You must be a Born Again! Admit it. Yes, now it makes sense, why all you people are ranting and raving. Born again Christians have no respect for anyone, including themselves.
Anyway, the real subject of your article is the reasons that people (Westerners in particular) embrace Islam. I quote your comments Raymond:
“If you take a bunch of guys predisposed to living a life of rapine, adventure, and “amorous” affairs, and offer them two religions – Christianity and Islam – and tell them to chose (did you make an English mistake here Raymond? – do you mean choose?), better believe they will all go for the latter, just like the pagan Mongols did after conquering much of Eurasia.”
AND
“Yes, I’m sure would-be converts don’t go around telling everyone their main motivation for conversion is sex: it’s an unspoken, “subconscious” allure.”
Are you serious Raymond? I am sorry, but none of the people I have seen embrace Islam came from a life of rapine, adventure, etc… And your so called “subconscious” allure… what a joke. You are insulting the intelligence and the integrity of your fellow Americans (or Westerners – if you are not an American). I have found all Westerners extremely sincere in their reasons for changing religions. I don’t know of/have never met - anyone who would change his religion for the reasons that you mentioned. People, who do change their religion, take it quite seriously. They normally convert after months or even years of study. I witnessed men who converted to Islam after 17 to 20 years of study. Insulting their honesty and honor only show how low you really are.
To think that someone would choose Islam over Christianity (especially the “Burned Again” variety) because of sex, adventure…. That has to be the most ridiculous idea yet. Lets take a closer look at it:
If I want to be a Christian, what is required of me? – Simple – just accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. – Do you deny that it is that simple Raymond? Am I required to go to church every Sunday? – No! Do I have to give up drinking whiskey, gambling, womanizing, eating pork chops and looking at porn? – No! (well, your supposed to give that stuff up, but nobody really cares… as long as you accept Jeeeeessuuuuus!) Am I guaranteed salvation? – Yes, absolutely, positively – one way ticket to Heaven! (for anyone reading this, I challenge you to ask any Born Again Christian about this and see if he/she doesn’t give you these answers.)
If I want to be a Muslim, what is required of me? 1) Declare your faith openly. 2) Pray the five daily prayers. (Every day? Come on, isn’t that a big load? Someone who leaves the 5 daily prayers is considered to have left Islam.) 3) Pay the Zakat (poor tax) if you have excess wealth. 4) Fast (give up your food, drink and sexual relations with your wife from dawn to sunset) during the month of Ramadan every year. (29-30 days on the Lunar calendar). 5) Make Hajj (Pilgrimage) to Makkah at least once in your lifetime, if you have the health and the means to do so. – Oh, maybe we keep all this stuff secret Raymond, and just tell them about all the sex… Wrong. We tell this to every single person who ever wishes to embrace Islam. Not only this, but we tell them what they have to give up: No more drinking, no more eating pork, no more sex outside of marriage, no more gambling, no more wearing gold jewelry (for men), no more collecting interest from the bank, and more. No prohibitions are kept secret. After all this, are you guaranteed salavation? No! No one enters Heaven except by the Mercy of God Almighty, even the Prophets. Even Jesus and Muhammad.
Now, anyone please, do you think that a Western man or woman would choose Islam over Christianity because they think it is easier?
The truth is that people embrace Islam for many different reasons. But the reasons Raymond mentioned in his article are unheard of in Islamic propagation. Maybe I should change my angle Raymond? Hey dude, embrace Islam and get all the sex you want….. Adventure too dude….
I ask all Born Again Christians about two men:
The first man gets up every day and thanks God for all he has been blessed with. He prays to God constantly for forgiveness. He never fornicates, never commits adultery, steals, murders, lies, cheats, gambles or drinks. When ever he receives something in this life, he thanks God and attributes it to Him. When ever he loses something in this life, he blames himself, and he is patient to the Will of God. But when this man dies, he does not believe that Jesus died for his sins. He only believes that Jesus was a prophet of God.
Raymond, where will this man go, Heaven or Hell? (every Born Again, without exception will tell you – straight to Hell!)
The second man gets up every day and never remembers God. He never thanks God and he considers that everything he has in this world is from his own sweat and his own genius. He lies, steals, commits adultery, gambles, drinks and even kills his fellow man. But when he dies, he dies on the firm belief that Jesus is his Lord and Savior.
Raymond, where will this man go, Heaven or Hell? (every Born Again, without exception will tell you – straight to Heaven!)
Do you expect me to believe that God Almighty, the Creator and Sustainer of the Heavens and the Earth, will punish one man, who does not deserved to be punished? Yet He will Forgive another man, who does not deserve to be forgiven, based solely on his belief in Jesus? Nice religion you got there. Easy as pie.
at July 31, 2008 11:52 AM
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