Those who learned what they know about Islam, had their experience of a Muslim country, in Indonesia 40 years ago, or 30, at a time when the miasma of renewed fanatical fervor had not yet spread throughout the land, should take a look again. Take a look, for example, at what has been happening to the Christians in Molucca, to their children and their churches. Or read the reports of the Barnabas Foundation. Or see if the Hindus in Bali feel quite as secure, with Muslim masters in Jakarta and a Muslim-run army, than they once did, when nationalist leaders, and the afterglow of independence from the Dutch, of a different kind were in command. Or see if Christians, Hindus, and the most "secular" of Muslims miss the days when that admirable personage, the inimitable Wahid, was the head of one of the largest political groupings.

And what Americans learned so much of what they know about Islam (and the rest they have received from their long and earnest talks with informants, in the case of one of them Rashid Khalidi, an islamochristian and fellow faculty member at the Univeristy of Chicago, intent on sweetly propagandizing and spreading the Gospel of Said, and in the case of the other, his Arab girlfriend) from the times they spent, one more misleading than the next, in Indonesia? And what they thought they were seeing -- Islam as (they thought) it is ordinarily practiced, in time and space -- but really did not see at all, for one was a child, and saw as a child, and the other was the American ambassador, and saw as....an American ambassador usually sees things -- they did not see, and worse was yet to come.

For later, the one who had been a child in Indonesia, and thought as a child, was told a little more about Islam, by Rashidi (and even listened to a bit of Edward Said whenever the latter came to town). He learned, that young Barack Obama, he learned from Rashidi and others (see the report by an indignant Abimunah, about how thoroughly on the "Palestinian" side Barack Obama had been -- had been, that is, before this current campaign) nothing about Islam save that it was a religion, and a good one, learned nothing about its politics or geopolitics, but did lear that Islam had nothing to do (when it has everything to do)with the Arab war on Israel, for this is what he was told. Rashidi found him to be an easy mark, as did Abu Abimunah, found him so willing to listen, so unskeptical, so naturally sympathetic to the "legitimate rights" of the "national liberation" struggle" of the carefully-invented "Palestinian people," which is how the Saids and Rashidis and Abimunahs of this world have for several decades, ably assisted by an army of Western hirelings of the Arabs, and by those who, in the media, some of them ignorant, many of them lazy, some touched early on in their lives by the magic wand of antisemitism, all collaborated eagerly in repackaging what had always been a classic Jihad against Israel, as something else, a "struggle" of a "tiny people" (there are Arabs and Kurds in Iraq; there are Arabs and Berbers in Morocco and Algeria; there are Arabs and black Africans in the Sudan; but when you get to the subject of Israel, the "Arabs" disappear and become, presto-chango, "Palestinians" -- indeed, one sometimes reads or hears the nonsensical phrase "Arab and 'Palestinians.'"

And the other one, the one who also learned about Islam in Indonesia (quondam East Indies), not a budding politician but a weapons systems analyst who knew and understood little (as Richard Pipes, who knew him on Team B, told an interviewer from The Boston Globe) about the importance of history, the influence of what Pipes called "culture" on the minds, and hearts, and therefore on the behavior, of men, that one, called Paul Wolfowitz, just like the Barack Obama whom we were just discussing, found an Arab girlfriend who turned out to be a sly defender of Islam as she helped persuade him that, since Islam itself was not dangerous, and therefore one need not think, or come close to thinking, about ways in Iraq to -- as I like to put it -- "weaken the Camp of Islam" -- but was easily manipulated, and the charm of a Chalabi did not hurt, to think only of how to bring democracy to Muslims, to the non-existent "Iraqi people," supposedly ready and eager for it (and never mind what attitudes and doctrines Islam inculcates that make "democracy" almost impossible to transplant, and even where in a Muslim land it has been temporarily achieved by constraints put on Islam, difficult to maintain for a long period).

But without his childhood experience of Indonesia, would Barack Obama be as naive about Islam as he apparently still is? And would Paul Wolfowitz have been as naive about Iraq, and what would constitute goals both attainable, and sensible, had he not served as the cosseted and therefore largely blind ambassador to Jakarta?

What a role Indonesia has played, so unwittingly, in furthering the misundertanding of Islam. Will it continue to play that role?

Given the decapatition of Christian schoolgirls, and the bombing in Bali, and the destruction of thousands of churches, and such hard-to-overlook events as this attack on a Christian school that resulted in hundreds of Christian children being wounded, it looks as if it may not.

But the damage that a "taste of Indonesia once upon a time" has done, in the minds of Obama and Wolfowitz -- peas in a pod on this though you won't find this mentioned, for obvious reasons, by the supporters and well-wishers of either man -- has already had its effects, in policies promoted and executed in Iraq, by Wolfowitz and policies now naively planned, for Afghanistan, by the Young Lochinvar just back from his star turn as Leader of The Western World -- no, make that Leader of the Entire Why-Can't-We-All-Get-Along World -- a post for which many of us did not realize was available, much less that it was one for which he, Barack Obama, turned out to be running.

Posted by: Hugh at July 29, 2008 8:16 AM

No-one who had read the chapters on Indonesia in V S Naipaul's 'Among the Believers' and 'Beyond Belief', would be at all surprised by any of this.

Nor would anyone who had read Simon Winchester's 'Krakatoa'.

Nor would any Australian who had any sort of awareness - channelled through, for example, the Catholic Church - of what the Indonesian Muslims did to the Catholic and animist people of East Timor during a brief 20 or 30 years of occupation, exploitation, and dismally predictable jihad mass murder.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at July 29, 2008 8:28 AM

A posting about some remarks by Barack Obama about Islam, given in an interview with Fareed Zakaria for Newsweek:

"Oh, god. So it's the Misperception-of-Islam-By-People-Who-Know-It-All-From-What-They-Pick-Up Problem, one more example of the Wolfowitz in Sheepish Obama's Clothing, phenomenon.

You know it: the smart Paul W. or Barack O. who does not bother to study Islam, to read the Qur'an, Hadith and Sira -- hell, he doesn't have the time -- but instead relies on "impressions," and above all on "personal impressions," even of people whom you do not know because they were never present (Obama's father, about whom he decided later to find out as he constructed or investigated his "identity" -- you know, trying to find himself, the way so many people do, but they usually go to California to find out, and he went...to Kenya) or because while ever-present, it turns out you never really understood them, never understood how even they, with whom you have supposedly been so intimate, hid from you, as possibly from themselves, the reality of Islam, and only recently have you begun to get a hint of that (Wolfowitz's Arab girlfriend, who helpd make him an enthusiast for the "bringing freedom" to "ordinary moms and dads" fantasy that Bush still clings to in his own private Fantasyworld).

And both of them, the sheepish Wolfowitz and the leanly wolfish lamb (so seemingly tough in his political readiness to trim, so innocent about the big world that he thinks he knows so much about, were fooled by their respective years in Indonesia.

For Wolfowitz as the American ambassador in Jakarta was made much of, told just what he wanted, or what his local interlocutors thought he wanted, to hear ("we are so hopeful about establishing relations with Israel, Ambassador Wolfowitz"), and Wolfowitz, of course, had no idea quite what an outlier in its Islam Indonesia, especially Indonesia a decade or two ago, was in relation to the other Muslim countries, and he was presented with a Potemkin-village Indonesia, ideologically speaking, that he never understood.

And Obama, similarly, having gone to school between the ages of 6 and 10 -- what child has horrible memories of that time? Very few, no matter where they may have been -- to a school that, while predominately Muslim, also had a Christian minority, he, Obama the child, could not possibly have understood that this school experience was most unusual, for the Muslim parents who sent their children to school with Christians were already most unrepresentative Muslims, within a most unrepresentative Muslim country still basking in the afterglow of nationalist secularism (Sukarno, Suharto), and Wahid was riding high, and not a thing about Obama's experience there, just as not a thing about Wolfowitz's, could help prepare either for learning about the full meaning of the Total Belief-System of Islam.

Wolfowitz and Obama -- peas in a pod, at least on this vital matter."

[Posted by: Hugh at July 13, 2008 5:45 PM]

Posted by: Hugh at July 29, 2008 8:41 AM

So the imam who instigeted hundreds of Muslims to attack the school after some "Christian gangsters" were coming (based on rumour, to be sure) to protect the school- apparently only after the Muslims attacked the school (and students) the day before?

Mohammedan logic? Even the rumor of Christians (and any non-Muslims for that matter) protecting themselves after being attacked by the religion of peace is now an act of war by non-Muslims? The dhimmis do dare to bear arms? can't have that. no-no-no, that is against the pact of Umar.

Posted by: npabga at July 29, 2008 8:43 AM

by an imam at a local mosque who claimed that a bunch of Christian gangsters were coming to “protect” the school after it was attacked on Saturday by a Muslim mob
wow we cant have Christian gangsters(aka law enforcment) protecting a christian school from a muslim mob just following the quearan (koran) and the command to make peaple of the book feel subdued
sic mind you imo that inam needs to be picked up and given 1000 lashes with a black snake whip made from pigskin for instigating the attack

Posted by: ISLAMSNOTFORME at July 29, 2008 9:04 AM

The only thing in history that I have ever come across that has halted the spread of Islam is brute deadly force. This was the method used by the Crusaders and it stalled them but did not eliminate them.

Since that time, they have remained stalled due to the West's advancing technology and financial strength. Today they are strong financially, and rapidly gaining technology. Obviously, WMD technology is what they want. And why, so they can continue where they left off with the West after the last Crusade.

Posted by: Spot on at July 29, 2008 9:08 AM

Whoa - I mean, the kid THREW A SHOE AND IT HIT A **MUSLIM"S** HOUSE!!! An "accident?" Sure, whatever. The Muslims should be praised for their superhuman self restraint in the face of such a bald-faced, hateful, racist (let's throw that in for good measure), anti-Islamic, outrageous provocation.

Posted by: BunrattyBill at July 29, 2008 9:28 AM

"But without his childhood experience of Indonesia, would Barack Obama be as naive about Islam as he apparently still is? And would Paul Wolfowitz have been as naive about Iraq, and what would constitute goals both attainable, and sensible, had he not served as the cosseted and therefore largely blind ambassador to Jakarta?"

by Hugh

Yes! It's a PC thing. People without Barack's and Paul's experiences with Islam are equally naive.
Wolfowitz was a former Democrat. Indonesia is not Iraq. Chalabi had a huge influence on Wolfowitz. He also influenced more level-headed people who should have had no illusions about Islam. Many were no doubt influenced by the US experience in Kuwait. People expected the Iraqis to have the same reaction to being liberated from Saddam.
Barack didn't need a stint in Indonesia to make him unwilling to confront Islam. He could have spent his entire childhood in Hawaii and it would have made no difference in his politics.
US bad, everyone else good.

Posted by: PMK at July 29, 2008 9:30 AM

Bunrattybill-
"Whoa - I mean, the kid THREW A SHOE AND IT HIT A **MUSLIM"S** HOUSE!!!"

I know it doesn't sound like much but you have to understand to a Muslim the shoe, throwing a shoe, even showing someone the bottom of your shoe is considered a great insult. This business about 'chasing a mouse' sounds made up to me. I believe there may have been an intentional insult by the student.

Of course being from a different culture you wouldn't know this. But right here in America people are killed in road rage 'incidents' that started with someone giving 'the finger'.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at July 29, 2008 9:45 AM

Looking at Indonesia and how the Hindu/Buddhist culture was over come by stealth Jihad is an excellent example of what can and will be seen in Europe and other parts of the world. If I am correct Islam to Indonesian arrived unlike other places on a stealth basis rather than the well know violent means, and from that result what has happened is what we see now. Persecution of infidels, bombings in Bali which is predominantly Hindus, attacks on Christians. So we can expect these phenomenas once Islam takes root. Criticize Islam as much as we can, that will keep Mohammedans always on the defensive and it wounds them deeply.

Posted by: savsiv at July 29, 2008 9:50 AM

Vicious and inhuman. So this is the collective mentality of the Muslim man-on-the-street? So quick, so eager to take offense, and take matters in their own hands, and to mete out horrid, disproportionate justice-so-called, all in their zeal to defend a prickly, brittle and irrational Islam? What a wretched thing! What sorry examples of men, and what a vile, misbegotten example of citizenship in the Islamic Ummah!

Posted by: John C at July 29, 2008 10:22 AM

What I just said, I realize, can be said again. And again. And again, whenever we hear of the next outrage precipitated by Islamic Rage.

Posted by: John C at July 29, 2008 10:28 AM

John C -

Well said.

Posted by: Mo at July 29, 2008 10:28 AM

"Of course being from a different culture you wouldn't know this. But right here in America people are killed in road rage 'incidents' that started with someone giving 'the finger'. "
Posted by: poetcomic1

But how often do you hear about an enraged mob surrounding the "finger-giver's" school or work-place and laying seige to it?

Please keep your oranges out of our apples.

Posted by: give me doughnuts at July 29, 2008 10:47 AM

Doughnuts to the OIC and the Ummah!

Posted by: John C at July 29, 2008 10:56 AM

Peotcomic1 - the showing of one's foot bottom is a well known insult in that culture - of course I know that. Recall that when the statue of Saddam was toppled kids were smacking it with their shoes to show contempt. This is no secret, even to those of us not from that culture. Let's assume your thesis (it's quite plausible after all). First, it was a kid. Second the reaction was out of all proportion (as usual). A rebuke, a scolding might have been in order, not what occurred. I hope you are not implying that any slight, not matter how trivial, is justification for any level of "outraged" response.

Posted by: BunrattyBill at July 29, 2008 10:58 AM

Give me liberty, or give me doughnuts!

Posted by: John C at July 29, 2008 11:03 AM

Here are some "highlights" (more like "lowlights") of the story, along with my comments:

>>Police evacuated the Christian Theological Arastamar Institute (STT SETIA) which is located in an eastern district of the Indonesian capital after it suffered damages during clashes between Christians and Muslims over the week-end.

>>Last night hundreds of residents from the village of Kampung Pulo had taken up arms threatening to storm the school after being instigated by an imam at a local mosque who claimed that a bunch of Christian gangsters were coming to “protect” the school after it was attacked on Saturday by a Muslim mob, causing damage to the building and hurting hundreds.

Who will pay for the damages suffered by the school? Why not charge the money to the Muslim Brotherhood Forum of Kampung Pulo Village? (see note below)

The imam needs to be arrested for instigating the mob.

>>In an attempt to solve the problem East Jakarta District Chief Murdani held a close door meeting with the warring parties to discuss the issue. At the same time though, he said that police would conduct a thorough investigation and check if the school’s legal status was in order and that it respected all building regulations. In case of violations he would issue orders to demolish the unlawful structures.

Ah ha. They'll find some minor violation of the building code, and they'll then demolish the building! I smell a muslim rat here...

>>Senny Manafe, a spokesperson for the school, ... claimed instead that the attacks were triggered by a trivial incident. In an attempt to chase a mouse in the street, a student threw a slipper against a house owned by a local Muslim. Outraged by the deed, the latter kicked and punched the student as people gathered drawn by the rumour that a Christian student had tried to steal the Muslim’s motorbike.

>>>“Many students suffered various injuries to the head. Others were burnt by Molotov cocktails,” Manafe said.

So, the student kept the mouse from entering the muslim's house, and to thank him, the muslim beat the snot out of the Christian, while everyone watched! (no doubt cheering him on). Who will pay for the hospital bills of these Christians?

>>The violence and charges against SETIA are the work of Risman Hadi, chairman of Muslim Brotherhood Forum of Kampung Pulo Village, who in the past opposed the opening and continued existence of the Christian institute.

They need to jail this guy, and then charge his organization for ALL expenses related to this -- hospital care for the injured, repair of the buildings, etc., plus lots of punitive damages.

But they won't do it. Because, after all, Islam is a "religion of peace"; those who did this weren't "true muslims".

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at July 29, 2008 11:18 AM

While trying to chase a mouse into the street, a Christian student threw a slipper against a house owned by a local Muslim. The Muslim homeowner, enraged, kicked and punched the student

The vital question here is this: "was that rotten brat chasing a muslim or Christian mouse?"

If the former, expect riots in EU over this matter.

Posted by: witness at July 29, 2008 11:19 AM

Bunrattybill-

COngratulations on your reason and restraint. I'm afraid you are too restrained! I was being tongue in cheek.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at July 29, 2008 12:17 PM

Islamic blight control:

First, Muslim mobs go on a rampage against a Dhimmi public nuisance.

Next, said Muslim mob retires, leaving Dhimmi premises of Dhimmi property in a deplorable shambles.

Finally, civic authorities close down Dhimmi accomodation for being in violation of health, safety, and zoning codes.

Posted by: John C at July 29, 2008 12:29 PM

Islamic blight control:

First, Muslim mobs go on a rampage against a Dhimmi public nuisance.

Next, said Muslim mob retires, leaving premises of Dhimmi property in a deplorable shambles.

Finally, civic authorities close down Dhimmi accomodation for being in violation of health, safety, and zoning codes.

Posted by: John C at July 29, 2008 12:30 PM

Stolen motorcycles and shoes hitting buildings = mob violence in the minds of Muslims. Yet again, the Western Media is silent regarding the massive persecution of Christians.

I am reminded of a 2004 story I ran into on the Internet last night. It was a CAIR press release against a department chain which displayed some shoes with the soles upwards. This was offensive to Muslims and CAIR demanded they apologize.

We see numerous examples of Muslims being unwilling to co-exist with non-Muslim. It appears that once they get in enough numbers in a country their demands that we capitulate to them increase.

The problem in Indonesia is the Muslims majority, not the Christians. Muslims need to be held account for their rabid bigotry.

Posted by: James Martel at July 29, 2008 12:43 PM

We should collect all our old shoes and carpet bomb Mecca with them. Until the über-moofti there proclaims a world-wide anti-violence and unpleasant behaviour fatwa.

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at July 29, 2008 1:14 PM

Lesson for today in Islamic Indonesia:

A school child throwing a slipper against a building is unconscionable and heinous. (if child is non-Muslim)

Beating, and burning hundreds of school children is justifiable and noble. (if children are non-Muslim).

Any questions?

Posted by: Xero G at July 29, 2008 1:56 PM

this is why we should be very skeptical when Muslims and their apologists say "Well yes, Islam teaches Jihad but only in defense". The Islamic threshold for "defense" seems to be much lower then ours.

Posted by: Monte Gardner at July 30, 2008 12:27 AM

In an attempt to chase a mouse in the street, a student threw a slipper against a house owned by a local Muslim. Outraged by the deed, the latter kicked and punched the student as people gathered drawn by the rumour that a Christian student had tried to steal the Muslim’s motorbike.
.................................

More jihad against little children. I live about three blocks from a Middle School (Junior High). Sometimes the kids get a bit loud walking home in groups, and we have had our share of soda cans and popsickle wrappings tossed in the yard over the years.

I have to tell you, I have never had the urge to assault any of these children. That this barbaric act was followed by the neighbors marching down to the school and pelting it with molotov cocktails shoud be unthinkable.

more:

"Last night hundreds of residents from the village of Kampung Pulo had taken up arms threatening to storm the school after being instigated by an imam at a local mosque who claimed that a bunch of Christian gangsters were coming to “protect” the school after it was attacked on Saturday by a Muslim mob, causing damage to the building and hurting hundreds."

Can't have the dhimmis protecting themselves. And there are those Imams again--not trying to diffuse an ugly situation, but rather whipping their parishioners up into a frenzy against the Infidels. Also note that he had no compunction about resorting to false rumors to do it.

more:

"In an attempt to solve the problem East Jakarta District Chief Murdani held a close door meeting with the warring parties to discuss the issue. At the same time though, he said that police would conduct a thorough investigation and check if the school’s legal status was in order and that it respected all building regulations. In case of violations he would issue orders to demolish the unlawful structures."

Notice how this is being presented as tensions between "warring parties", and "tensions between Christians and Muslims", rather than an unprovoked attack on Christians by Muslims.

As to the reference to "checking the school's legal status", I agree with Person of the Book's above posting:

"Ah ha. They'll find some minor violation of the building code, and they'll then demolish the building! I smell a muslim rat here..."

I think this is very likely. There is no rational reason to check the school under these circumstances. So often police and officials in Muslim-majority countries either do little to protect non-Muslims, or "they make them pay" for the protection by seizing their business, closing their school, or razing their church. How many times have we seen this happen?

Note to PoetComic1: I knew you were joking, and found the "culturally sensetive" references to shoes very funny. You do hear multicultural idiocy like this all the time, which is probably why so many people took your comments seriously. When reality is so absurd, it's not easy to satirize.

Posted by: gravenimage at July 30, 2008 4:45 PM