we must see what the chinese do to the Uighurs. if it works, we should try it. no matter what the "civilised" world thinks

Posted by: theygottago at August 8, 2008 10:03 AM

"Jihadism."
-- from the article above

Would that the word "Jihadism" -- though its use in the current climate is understandable -- had been avoided. It confuses, in the same way that the word "Islamism" confuses. By "Jihadism" I take it Walid Phares means "violent" Jihad. But if he had used the phrase "Jihad" or "violent Jihad" or "Jihad conducted through violence" he would have performed an act of pedagogy. For every time one reminds readers that the duty of "Jihad" -- the struggle to remove all obstacles to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam -- is central and not tangential, and every time one reminds readers that Jihad does not have to be conducted by violence -- whether traditional combat, qitaal, or terrorism -- but can be conducted by other instruments, which today include deployment of the Money Weapon, campaigns of Da'wa, and demographic conquest.

True, the immediate goal of the Uighurs is to remove the Chinese rule. But if that rule were removed, does anyone think that the non-Muslim Chinese livinig in Xinjiang under Muslim rule by the Uighurs would forever remain immune from Uighur attempts to impose rule according to Islam. For inevitably, rule by Muslims would lead soon enough to a return of Islam as the dominating force, just as it has in many other places in the Central Asian stans (Kazakhstan where the long rule of Communists helped to supprss it, and seemed to have stamped it out. And even in Muslim lands where an enlightened leader tried to systematically constrain Islam, as in Turkey with Ataturk, Islam as a political and social force is back, and on the march.

And how many Uighurs would then look forward to joining up with fellow members of the umma in Pakistan, where some have no doubt received training and support (as they have, we know, from the Taliban in Afghanistan), and might indeed extend that even further, with a Shi'a bump in the road at Iran/Iraq.

And then, why should not the Uighurs work their way east, for the world belongs to Allah, and why should not the those benighted People of Han be made to see things by the light of the silvery crescent moon, if everyone -- the rich Arabs with their money, the local Muslims with their campaigns of Da'wa and their procreation -- just keeps at it, the non-violent Jihad, in contradistinction to the violent Jihad, and not to "Jihadism."

Posted by: Hugh at August 8, 2008 10:08 AM

I don't think this is going to change anything regarding the commie lite go'vt of China and their policies with Islamic regimes. For one, they still have too many millions of people using cars and televisions and computers and other modern things for the first time and so their energy needs, which like with us they haven't worked on fulfilling using non oil methods, are going to keep bringing them in contact with, and in total support of, the Sudan, Iran and other militantly Islamist regimes.

Furthermore, the Uigyur jihad is only affecting a small minority of the Chinese people. I think the religious demographics of China are approximately 1.5 percent muslim, and that includes all muslim minorities, Hui, Uigyurs, etc. Hence, most Chinese have probably never so much as been in contact with a muslim of any kind at all; the majority probably don't know, or only vaguely know, what a muslim is at all. Unfortunately, it's going to take more than this to get China to rethink its foreign policies and its sucking up to the Islamist nations.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at August 8, 2008 10:37 AM

Unfortunately, it's going to take more than this to get China to rethink its foreign policies and its sucking up to the Islamist nations.

I wonder what, if anything, will happen with China's relationship with it's oil sources (i.e. Sudan etc) if it squashes this islamist threat. We all know that the traditional Chinese approach to dissent is less constrained than GW's "hearts and minds" style of fighting jihad.

Posted by: walterc at August 8, 2008 10:51 AM

Certainly the dreadful chinease neeed to be careful in how they handle muslims.

What the soon to be superpower of the world does not need is to have to fight a sort of a jirilla guerrella war in one corner of China...ad infinatam.

There is no need for it....provided the chinese treat muslims like they are (reasonably) fairly treated in the West.

The Ujairs are a proud and ancient people...the chinese need to back off Allah's chosen.

Equally I condemn any violent action taken by either side.

Posted by: hindenberg at August 8, 2008 10:56 AM

"hindenberg"'s hijab is showing.

But I should have remembered that that's the whole point of wearing it.

Posted by: Hugh at August 8, 2008 11:01 AM

The Ujairs are a proud and ancient people...the chinese need to back off Allah's chosen. - posted by hindenberg

They are not Allah's chosen. They have chosen this for themselves under the pretext of being Allah's chosen. As have the rest of the Islamofacists.

Posted by: gymgal at August 8, 2008 11:15 AM

I spent two weeks in Xinjiang last summer in the Uighur community. I went with people who had lived there for years, and I know people who are still there (at least those who haven't been kicked out for some made up excuse by the Chinese government thugs). In my experience, the Uighurs are cultural Muslims, and not devout. Obviously there is a devout minority, but they are the minority and not the majority. Hugh makes a lot of assumptions in his post, but you know what they say about assuming...

One thing you might want to do some research on is the underground Christian church and how it is spreading in China. Thanks in no small part to that idiot David Aikman and his book "Jesus in Beijing", the Chinese government has been cracking down ruthlessly on Christians and foreigners over the past couple years. I heard first hand stories about Chinese nationals and Uighurs being arrested and disappearing, never to be heard from again. I knew an American who had lived there for 18 years and had married a Uighur woman. He was detained and questioned by the police, accused of something he had absolutely noting to do with, and then kicked out of the country a couple months later. The thing they all had in common was that they were Christians. My point in all this is that there are probably more Christians than Muslims in China. Who knows what would happen if the Communists were no longer in power?

From the original article:

For now Chinese officials are downplaying the danger altogether and dismissing the threat: "Those in Xinjiang pursuing separatism and sabotage are an extremely small number,” said a pro Government Uighur leader. “They may be Uighurs, but they can't represent Uighurs. They are the scum of the Uighurs," regional communist official Bekri said.

To the Chinese, all Uighurs are scum. It's obvious in the way they (and all other minorities) are treated. The Communists came in back in the 1950s and tried to destroy the whole culture. They've failed, but that doesn't mean they don't try. Don't do as Mr. Phares does and automatically assume that this is just a bunch of Islamofacists on the rampage, because the Uighurs have been truly oppressed (those who live in the US who claim oppression - like Obama's spiritual mentor Jeremiah - have no clue what true oppression is), and they're tired of it. Granted, the jihadi nut cases my try to hijack that feeling for their own purposes, but there's more to it than jihadism.

Posted by: Wonder95 at August 8, 2008 11:18 AM

“They may be Uighurs, but they can't represent Uighurs. They are the scum of the Uighurs," regional communist official Bekri said. But that is what Russian officials always said about Chechnya and their Indian counterparts argued about Kashmir.

It's also what Western officials have been saying for years about al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. They're Muslims but they don't represent all Muslims, or so we've been told. In fact, no one who kills anyone is representative of Islam, or so we've been told.

Any conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims can be portrayed as ethnic. It's between people who haven't already submitted to Islam and the notion of Arab supremacy, and those that have. There is almost always an ethnic divide. Given the media's love of the underdog, it's not surprising that they would present the Uighurs as freedom fighters. To admit that this is part of the worldwide jihad just makes it harder to cover. The framework of dictators opposed to self-determination is an easier one to work with.
Uighurs - Good, Beijing - Bad.

Posted by: PMK at August 8, 2008 11:52 AM

"hindenberg"'s hijab is showing. --Hugh

Really! "Allah's Chosen" - LOL!

There is no "Allah," a pre-Islamic pagan moon deity that, being pagan, has never existed.

There is only Warlord Mo, who conned you people back in the 7th century AD and is still conning you. Sad.

Islamic Jihad has come to China. I guess it's everywhere, except Anarctica.

Posted by: darcy at August 8, 2008 11:54 AM

I guess it's everywhere, except Anarctica. posted by darcy (welcome back, you were missed)

Shhhhh, they may not realize it. I'm worried for the penguins, the Islamofacists may mistake them for nuns.

Posted by: gymgal at August 8, 2008 12:09 PM

Obviously there is a devout minority [of True Believers], but they are the minority and not the majority. Hugh makes a lot of assumptions in his post, but you know what they say about assuming..."
-- from a posting above

Should we judge the behavior of any group of Muslims on the basis of their behavior at a particular moment in time, when they are in situations where they cannot possibly dominate, and not only must dampen their Muslim enthusiasms out of a sense of self-preservation, but have also, sometimes by deliberate government-imposed anti-Islam or anti-religion efforts (as by the Soviet government in Central Asia, or by the Chinese in Xinjiang), had their beliefs weakened, possibly reduced to little more than the rituals of worship -- shehada, salat, zakat, hajj, ramadan -- known as the five pillars. Shouldn't we rather look at how Muslims behave when they can behave according to the dictates of Islam? Do we have any examples of such? Has not Islam come back, in several of the five Central Asian stans, and is held in check (save in the largely secular exception, Kazakhstan) by old-line former Communist leaders? Has not Islam been coming back, after the largely secular first and second generation of nationalist leaders -- Suharto, Sukarno -- had been replaced, in Indonesia, though there a figure such as Wahid can offer an Islam that does not come out of the texts, but is indeed heterodox, and welcomingly so? Was not Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, himself a lover of wine and, some say, even ate pork, and did not foresee, did not want, Islam to have the kind of political and social power that, after him (and he died almost as soon as the state was born), little by little, and especially with a big boost under General Zia ul-Haq, it acquired? Despite 80 years of Kemalism, is not Islam back, in Turkey, with the AKP and ERdogan, and a vengeance? Why should we, then, be sanguine about the outward meek-and-mildness, as you suggest, of the Uighurs? Why shouldn't we worry more about the immutable texts and tenets of Islam, just as we might among those supposedly permanently "secular" Muslims in the Balkans, who since Ottoman rule ended, have had perforce to become "secular" and, of course, proximity to large numbers of Infidels does have a way of sometimes modifying the outward aspect, and some of the attitudes, of Muslims, as has happened among some of the better-off Muslims in Lebanon, or Syria. But the problem of Islam, and what it inculcates, does not thereby disappear forever.

Policies have to be based not on the transient, especially when we have seen how transient that transient can be. They must be based instead on a recognition of what the ideology of Islam is, why it is almost impossible to change it (those immutable texts), except in the most trivial of ways, and among only a handful of Believers, and why policies must be based on the grim apprehension of the meaning, and menace, of Islam.

That was the only assumption I made. The rest was, as was perfectly clear, conjecture about what would happen if the Uighurs came to rule in Xinjiang, and what could happen next -- not the next year, not necessarily the next decade -- but "next."

Posted by: Hugh at August 8, 2008 12:14 PM

And for the record, I do not necessarily think the Chinese are completely right and their critics entirely wrong to think of the Uigyurs as monolithically dangerous and threatning to them. Don't get me wrong, in the great majority of quarrels, to use a euphamism of sorts, between Islamics and non Islamics, I am quickly inclined to take the non Islamic side. That would include India and Pakistan, the India and Kashmiri Muslims, Israelis and Arabs (goes without saying really), Thailand and the Malay jihadists, Phillipines and Moros, Christians and jihadists in Eastern Indonesia, Igbo and Hausa in Nigeria and Serbs and Albanian/Bosnian jihadists. Aww fuckin hell, I just realized I shouldn't have said that last one, now I'm going to get a flaming from the Serbophobes who come here, (we all know who they are by now).

But in the case of China, well, the Chicoms who are still plundering the country when Human Rights groups aren't looking, I suspect, are only marginally more trustworthy than Islamists if at all. Either one I wouldn't trust as far as I could kick them. Obviously, I don't personally know enough about the Uigyurs to determine if they are simply nominal muslim people caught in Chicoms' wrath, just like Tibetians, or if they are by and large committed Holy Warriors like the groups I named above. Either way, in this case I must admit what the Chicoms say by themselves is not enough; they say the same things about how dangerous Tibetians, Falun Gong members and Chinese Christians are as well. More evidence is needed to demonstrate, in this case, that the Uigyurs are somehow less deserving of sympathy adn support than Tibetians, Christians and other cruelly repressed minorities under the Chicoms.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at August 8, 2008 12:17 PM

Really! "Allah's Chosen" - LOL!

There is no "Allah," a pre-Islamic pagan moon deity that, being pagan, has never existed.

There is only Warlord Mo, who conned you people back in the 7th century AD and is still conning you. Sad.

Islamic Jihad has come to China. I guess it's everywhere, except Anarctica.

Posted by: darcy

I agree, Darcy! Allah who? LOL!! Sad bunch of "believers", very sad.

__________________________________________________

"...the chinese need to back off Allah's chosen."

Posted by: hindenberg

You need to back off pushing your allah nonsense, especially now that we know that you're a snake oil salesman. Initially you came on JW with your average-guy disguise on, pretending to be one of us; but now that we know who you really are: a poopagandist who is pushing his poopaganda, then we can go about the business of rubbing your nose in your own poo. Please take your rotten 'religion' and flush it. Thank you.

Posted by: champ at August 8, 2008 12:40 PM

"I'm worried for the penguins, the Islamofacists may mistake them for nuns."

Posted by: gymgal

LOL!! Good one, gymgal!

Posted by: champ at August 8, 2008 12:42 PM

"I'm worried for the penguins, the Islamofacists may mistake them for nuns."

Posted by: gymgal

I can see it now, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Jamat y Islamiyah, the Muslim Leagues of Pakistan, Hamas/Fatah, Iranian Revolutionaries and other jihadis stage an invasion of Antarctica and find it populated with what they think are nuns. So they go all the way up to the Arctic and bring down some Polar Bears and set them loose on all the nuns making making Antarctica najis. And Animal Rights groups won't be able to raise their voice in protest as most of the world thinks Terrorists Rights preside over both Animal Rights and Human Rights.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at August 8, 2008 12:49 PM

Somewhere in the article it says: "As in Chechnya a local ethnic separatist claim exists but the struggle was hijacked by the Jihadi terror forces."

Just curious: are there any "local ethnic separatist" movements using violence anywhere in the world that are NOT Islamic...? Or if you can find a couple here and there (Basques etc.) what's the proportion of Islamic to non-Islamic? I'd bet it's like 90 to 1.

Posted by: DenverRodeo at August 8, 2008 1:08 PM

The troubles in Sharqi Turkistan consist of six parts: six parts are due to ethnic differences and a half dozen parts are due to religious problems. The question of whether it is "jihad" or "ethnicity" is really quite moot. Such things intertwine whenever a Muslim and non-Muslim population come to blows.

Add to the mix Eastern Turkistan has been treated as colonial territory since the 1800's, when Zuo Zongtang's Hunanese soldiers pacified it for the Qing emperors (the same Zuo of General Tso's chicken).

And, I will say it again. Having been subject to the self-righteous, noisy posturings of Communists and their sympathizers for the bulk of my adult life, I think that Beijing deserves the UIghur separatists-plus the Muslim dissidents elsewhere in China who'll settle for a China with a US-style first amendment.

Posted by: Kepha at August 8, 2008 1:31 PM

What I found most interesting about Hindenberg's comment was the baldfaced expropriation of a term that has been used, and is indelibly identified with, the Judaic tradition. "Allah's chosen" indeed.

Then again, brazen theft by Muslims is hardly bid'ah.

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at August 8, 2008 1:39 PM

Hugh, are you saying that Blindenberg is wearing her hijab on her sleeve?

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at August 8, 2008 1:53 PM

One important thing to note about the Uighurs is that they are Turkic Mohammedans - same as Kyrgyz, Kazakh, Turkmen and Uzbeks. There are minor differences between these groups, but they are similar enough that if one imagines the entire area between the Caspian Sea and Central China, that's the whole extent of Chinese Mohammedan terretory. If that country existed, it would be the third largest country in the world, displacing China.

Beyond travelling, the thing that Wonder95 needs to know is some history. As with other people of Turkistan, the hero of these was the 14th century Turkic warlord Tamerlane/Timur, who massacred millions of people from Moscow to Delhi. Hugh is right in what he generically pointed out about the Uighurs, but on top of that, don't imagine that if that area Islamized the way Kyrgyzstan has been doing, that they won't seek a return to their old glory. While it won't mean that Delhi or Moscow would be a part of the new country, it does mean that it will be a rich hinterland for Jihad.

Maxwell is right that given China's record with Tibetans, Falun Gong and other people, what they state about Uighurs doesn't deserve an automatic endorsement, but at the same time, I wouldn't give the Uighurs the same considerations that I'd give the Tibetans. This is not because of Chinese claims, but rather because the Uighurs, with other Turks, do have a pre-Communist history of Jihad to hark back on, and there is no evidence that the trends seen in previously moderate countries like Turkey, Indonesia, et al won't visit itself in Urumqi. So while I do hope that one day, Tibet becomes free, I'm very unlikely to wish the same for Xinxiang

Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 8, 2008 2:23 PM

Somehow, I do see major differences between Hindenberg and Naseem. If they are one and the same, that person sure knows how to vary his/her writing style to appear different.

I never agreed with 'her', but something tells me Naseem meant it when she decided to leave JW on her own.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 8, 2008 2:25 PM

If the moslems hate the Chinese that's good enough for me. We should start making friends with the Chinese and the Russians instead of always fighting against one another.

Similar to WW2.. have a Pre-war conference and divvy up the region and the oil.

Expel all local populations from where the oil is. Give them enough food for subsistence as long as they don't attack us.

Repatriate moslems to their native lands, ie. the "umma".

I know this sounds rather "radical" but radical means going to the root. The root of the problem is islam. islam is incompatible not only with the West but Russia and China as well.

Therefore islam must be excluded from the rest of the world.

The moslems in SE Asia need to be repatriated to the umma as do those in India where they make nothing but trouble.

Walls must be built between India and Pak. Kashmir must be taken by India and then walled off to the Paks.

I wouldn't be unhappy at all if I never ever saw another moslem again.

They hate us too so this should solve things without too much of a bloodbath.

The way they continue to invade the West with "immigration" will certainly lead to the war and bloodletting which our liberal "friends" are so desperate to avoid - even at the cost of giving up our own sovereignty.

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at August 8, 2008 2:29 PM

IP -

I think that hindenberg is a guy, because on previous posts he signed off with "Fred"; either way, he/she does come across like Naseem.

Posted by: champ at August 8, 2008 2:45 PM

For Infidel Pride,

First off, yes, it's absolutely true that moderate, enlightened, secular peoples can, within the span of several generations, can easily revert back, especially when they and their neighbours grow careless. The historical example that has been harped on here, of course, is the Mughal rulers Akbar, Jahangir and Shahjahan. Now, I know they were not perfect; Akbar and Shahjahan were hardliners in their early years, (though in their later years they were influenced by heretical sufis and became much more tolerant and openminded), and all of them did enact a few objectionable measures such as apostasy laws designed largely to keep militant muslim subjects happy. However, these three were known most (not all, of course) of the time to be tolerant and liberal rulers compared to their contemporaries in the Muslim world or Western Europe, for that matter. They were clearly far removed from Orthodox Islam; Ibn Warraq as pointed out that Akbar was essentially an apostate of Islam in his later years, harshly questioning it the way such freethinkers as Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan and Ayaan Hirsi Ali did. And it is under them that the Mughal period produced the magnificent architecture and cultural activity that "Islamic Rule in India" is so much credited for.

And then we all know what happened. Shahjahan's favorite son, the enlightened heretic Dara Shikoh, was supposed to take power, but got taken over by Aurangzeb in a full blown Islamic revolution akin to that of Khomeini in modern day Iran, Izetbegovic in Bosnia, Al Bashir in Sudan, and the Palis and Hezbollah in Lebanon. All these happened because the people in these places and in surrounding countries of influence were simply not paying attention AT ALL as to what was taking place and, as Brigitte Gabriel noted regarding Lebanon, didn't see the writing on the wall until it was too late. And of course, they were decieved by the deceit and scrupulious claims of the revolutionaries in all these cases-Aurangzeb, Khomeini and Izetbegovich to name a few.

The other side is, while it's important to pay attention to what is going on under the surface in the Turkic countries, it does not imply, I don't think,rashness in regards to governance or that these countries need or deserve to be under murderous dictatorships. If that is the only thing separating them from becoming full blown Islamic Republics, I can understand that mindset, but in the case of Xinjiang and the stans, I don't quite see it. Kazakhstan for sure, even if it didn't have a majority Russian population. Moreover, I don't see any that Kyrgyzstan, while it may have been naturally more friendly to muslim hardliners now that it isn't ruled by ruthless commies, has even become anything like Egypt or Pakistan, let alone Iran or Afghanistan- if you have proof of this, I will gladly retract this. I'll grant you Tajikistan could be a dangerous case, but even they stomped down on jihadi insurrection the last time it was tried.

Bottom line is, while clearly you do have to be fully alert to social changes taking place in all muslim states and can't be an easily deceived idiot, i.e. Jimmy Carter on Iran or the gullible - some of whom actually post here - who believe Izetbegobitch was an actual democratic moderate, that does not necessarily imply you should go in the other direction and encourage Muslim states to be under cruel dictatorship. While in certain cases it is absolutely necessary, definitely is not in *all* cases. And I doubt you could get even Islam's leading critics, Robert Spencer, Bat Yeor, Steve Emerson, Ibn Warraw, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, to concur that simply being muslim implies you DESERVE to live under a monstrous dictatorship. They might agree that there's a good reason most muslims do live under cruel dictatorships, but those clearly are not the same things.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at August 8, 2008 3:22 PM

Oh yes, and also, yes, I don't think it's a good thing that today's turkic people look to Timur as their conquerer. It would probably be better to look to someone like Genghiz Kahn, who though he was just as vicious at least did not base his conquest on waging jihad. Or, if they want muslim rulers as national heroes, at least someone like Akbar or Jehangir who tried to foster mutual respect between Muslims and non Muslims.

But again, I don't really see this as sufficient evidence that the stans and Xinjiang would become like Iran, the Sudan, Libya, Pakistan r Afghansitan if they become democratic. If they were serious Islamists, they would have as their national heroes Jamat Y Islamiyah, Hezbollah, Iranian Mullahs, the Muslim Brotherhood or some historical figure like Mahmud of Ghazni or Aurangzeb, both of whom I've read have missles in Pakistan, excuse me, Dumbfuckistan, named after them, (unlike their genuinely enlightened counterparts Akbar and Jahangir).

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at August 8, 2008 3:30 PM

Before coming here this morning (it's morning here where I am, I am sitting at the computer with my cup of tea, after discovering to my disgust that my cat, with complete ecumenicity [perhaps he's an atheist?] had sicked up all over a. my Bible and b. my copy of the Qur'an...) I found the following Associated Press story in Jerusalem Post, concerning the rumblings of Jihad in western China.

Note particularly the use of that favourite Homeric epithet 'restive' to apply to a jihad-wracked region of the planet - we have seen it used in AP and AFP accounts of jihad warfare in the Philippines and in Thailand, now we see our old friend 'restive' turning up in a report on Xinjiang.

Note also at the end of the article, the robust Chinese approach to street-blocking ostentatious displays of militant Muslim piety. Perhaps mayors of some Italian and French towns could take note and adapt this approach to local circumstances.

Remember: Islam is a religion of war; Muslim men engaged in mass prayer demonstrations are conducting a military drill by any other name.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218104243115&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

Aug 8, 2008 16:02 | Updated Aug 8, 2008 16:05
Islamic group threatens Olympic transport
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
URUMQI, China

'Police shut down the bustling International Bazaar in the capital of China's restive Muslim region of Xinjiang on Friday amid threats from an Islamic group that attackers might target buses, trains and planes during the Olympics.

'A sign at the entrance of the bazaar in Urumqi did not explain why the area, surrounded by mosques with minarets, was off limits as the country prepared to kick off the Summer Games thousands of kilometers away in Beijing.

'But one of the many security guards in the bazaar's plaza, which was marked off with crime scene tape, told an AP reporter, "The area is closed because of a possible terrorist attack. It's just a defensive measure."

'In Tokyo, an anonymous bomb threat e-mailed to Air China's Tokyo offices on Friday forced a passenger jet to make an emergency return to Japan, the Japanese Transport Ministry said. Four other flights were delayed.

'The e-mail, written in Japanese and received in the early afternoon, urged the airlines to suspend its flights or the writer would "bomb the aircraft," said Transport Ministry official Fumio Yasukawa.

"We suspect this is a threat related to the Olympics," he said, refusing to provide further details of the note or say whether any particular groups were suspected of sending it.

'A flight carrying 70 people from Nagoya to Shanghai was forced to return to Japan after the threat was received, and it landed safely, he said. Two other jets underwent safety checks and departed Fukuoka, in southern Japan, one headed to Beijing and one to Shanghai, Yasukawa said.

'With China's communist government saying they have thwarted attempts to disrupt the Olympic Games, more than 100,000 soldiers and police are guarding Beijing and other Olympic co-host cities.

'The capital's iconic Tiananmen Square was closed off to visitors much of Friday as Chinese President Hu Jintao hosted world leaders at a luncheon banquet at the Great Hall of the People ahead of the opening ceremony.

'On Thursday, a videotape purportedly made by the Turkistan Islamic Party - a militant group seeking Xinjiang independence - was released with threats to launch attacks during the Olympics.
"Choose your side," says the videotape's speaker, grasping a rifle and dressed in a black turban and camouflage with his face masked. "Do not stay on the same bus, on the same train, on the same plane, in the same buildings or any place the Chinese are," he warns Muslims, according to a translation by the SITE Intelligence Group, a US operation that monitors militant organizations.
'The Turkistan Islamic Party is believed to be based across the border in Pakistan, where security experts say core members have received training from al-Qaida.
'The sprawling, far-flung western region of Xinjiang has long been a source of trouble for China's communist government. 'The rugged, mineral-rich territory is populated by the Uighurs, a Turkic Muslim minority that has had tense relations with the Chinese. Many Uighurs favor independence or greater autonomy for Xinjiang, which takes up one-sixth of China's land mass and borders eight Central Asian countries.
'Last month, the militant group issued videotaped threats and claimed responsibility for a series of bus bombings in China in recent months. The latest video features graphics similar to ones used earlier: a burning Olympics logo and an explosion imposed over an apparent Olympic venue.
'The new video claims the communist government's alleged mistreatment of Muslims justifies holy war. It accuses China of forcing Muslims into atheism by capturing and killing Islamic teachers and destroying Islamic schools, according to the SITE. It also says China's birth control program has forced abortions on Muslim women.
'At a shopping plaza in Urumqi, one Uighur businessman who would only identify himself as Kurban, said he did not support violent groups and valued his relationship with Han Chinese. But he also sympathizes with Uighurs who dislike the Chinese because so many Uighurs are forced to live in poverty and repression in the countryside.
"The countryside is tense and very poor," he said. "But if I talk about them anymore, the police will come and take me away."
'On Monday, assailants killed 16 border police and wounded 16 others in the Xinjiang city of Kashgar when they rammed a stolen truck into the group before tossing homemade bombs and stabbing them. Chinese authorities called the raid a terrorist attack and said they had arrested two men who are Uighurs.
Authorities have called the men terrorists, but officials have released no evidence linking them to a specific group.
Urumqi has been on high alert. Security guards were checking bags at the entrances of hotels, department stores and discos in the busy city, which unlike other Xinjiang cities is predominantly Han Chinese - the nation's largest ethnic group. In the past 50 years, Han Chinese have been flooding into the region, creating another sore point with the Uighurs.

'At noon prayers at one of the city's largest mosques, the crowd spilled out onto sidewalks, where men knelt on prayer rugs. A street-cleaning truck blasting loud music roared by the crowd spraying water that soaked the backs of worshippers.

'Xu Zhongcheng, an expert on counterterrorism and organized crime at Shandong Police College in eastern China, said security experts were taking the threats seriously, though more as "psychological warfare than real acts."
He added, "The more terrorist threats, the more closely the Chinese people will stick together."'

My view on the matter? The post-maoist criminal tyranny/ kleptocracy that is currently ruling - and ruining - China, completely disgusts me. Their cruel persecution of dissidents, their ghastly concentration camps (Lao Gai), their harvesting of organs from people they have executed, their violent and cruel suppression of perfectly peaceful and harmless Christians and Tibetans, is abominable. They should cop MUCH more pressure from other countries for these wicked deeds, than they do.

Were the Uighur secular, Buddhist or Christian I would be only too happy for them to be free of the Han Communist Empire.

But I concur with Hugh: in the long, long view, suppression of Jihad is paramount. Jihad exists in potentia EVERYWHERE that there is a large population of Muslims.

The Chinese authorities would do better to continue resolute suppression of all manifestations of Jihad and all attempts to practise sharia; but at the same time, to quit persecuting Christians and Buddhists and give both groups a free hand to try to convert the Uighur (who would have been shamanists and/ or Buddhists originally, or even possibly - some of them - Nestorian Christians, before their ancestors were frightened or tricked or bribed into adopting Islam).

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 8, 2008 6:08 PM

I should have made it clearer that the article I found in Jerusalem Post, and reproduced above, ends with the words 'stick together'.

The rest of the posting, beginning with 'my view on the matter', is my own comments/ thoughts on the situation.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 8, 2008 6:12 PM

Who is this person "naseem" that you people keep asking me about?

It seems to me that you either miss this person or hated him.

I do not know of Naseem, I am of German & Turkish descent.

I have been to San Francisco, and Boston with my parents...and I love America. When I first get there I look at you people as Kuffar...but then I start to become secular myself only within 2 days...and I love it over there.

Perhaps once I get citizenship ....I will belong...but I want you to make me feel welcome...I love the American women, their accents and blonde hair...but often too many of them are obese.

Fred

Posted by: hindenberg at August 8, 2008 6:20 PM

A ditty for Freddy

Freddy, be afraid
for kafir freedom is delicious,
but it takes a great toll
on the mohammedan's goal
of submission to the moon-god allah.
So be careful when you come
to the great satan's home,
for you may find you fail fitnah
and wail for eternity while you burn in hell.

Posted by: the poetess at August 8, 2008 8:23 PM

Secular in two days...must be some kind of record.

Just how secular are you Fred?

Posted by: duh_swami at August 8, 2008 8:29 PM

Fred - Naseem was a Mohammadean nuisance - kinda like you are, but you aren't as entertaining as Naseem was. What do you think of wild slutty womens?

Posted by: champ at August 8, 2008 9:12 PM

Allah's chosen people...

Tabakat Vol 1. p27
Ibn Sa’d reports Muhammad saying:

“Among all the people of the world God chose the Arabs. From among the Arabs he chose the Kinana. From Kinana he chose the Quraish (the tribe of Muhammad). From the Quraish he chose Bani Hashim (his clan). And from Bani Hashim he chose me.

So if you believe Sa'd and Mohammad, Arabs are Allah's chosen people...

I guess that means that non Arab muslims get to ride in the back of the bus...

How about that Fred? Do you ride in the back of the bus, or up front with Allah's chosen?

Posted by: duh_swami at August 8, 2008 10:01 PM

duh_swami, Fred probably rides wherever the blonde American women ride - unless of course they are obese - and then he'll lower his standards and sit with the redheads and brunettes. He must have to beat them off with a stick, being that he's so charming and all :-D

Posted by: champ at August 8, 2008 10:09 PM

After 'Fred's' last comment, I'm willing to consider the probability that this may be Naseem in another incarnation, maybe from a different location. Particularly the way 'he' draws out certain differences with Naseem that would lead one to think they are different, such as the fascination with blonde hair (Naseem hated it, Fred likes it). Marisol?

Maxwell

It's interesting that you brought up the Moghul emperors, but none of them (except Babur) was from Turkestan. And Babur's inspiration was very much Timur, and his conquests too were very much in the name of Jihad - just ask the Hindus who took back the Ram Janmabhoomi. Timur and Babur are the only ones relevant to Turkestan, and the Turkic peoples are different from Mongols, and wouldn't look at Chengiz, Hulegu, Kublai, Chagtai et al for inspiration. Similarly, Mahmoud of Ghazni was an Afghan, not a Turk, so they wouldn't be looking at him as a hero (Mohammed Ghouri they may - another Jihadi). [The other point you brought up - somewhat OT for this thread - was also a very important one - while Akbar was (arguably) secular, Jahangir was less secular than him (he stopped allowing Hindu converts to Islam from reverting to Hinduism), Shah Jahan was even less secular and resumed the destruction of Hindu temples, and of course, we all know about Aurangzeb]

About the stans, Xinxiang is exactly as Hugh described it - supressed today, so can't show their true potential. Kazakhstan is what it is because Russians and Kazakhs are virtually equal, and the Kazakhs know that if war broke out, they could lose 50% of their terretory. Tajikistan, as you pointed out is dangerous, particularly since they listen to Radio Teheran for inspiration, despite being Sunni, unlike their Shia mentors in Iran. Turkmenistan is worth watching, since the Kemalesque like cult of Niyazov is over, and the month named after him is back, thereby leaving the 'vacuum' that Islam can re-occupy.

The country in the region most worth watching is Uzbekistan, which contains Timur's capital Samarqand and a former Islamic pilgrim center of Buqhara, the largest city in the region Tashkent, and the 'restive' Ferghana valley, including Andijon, the birthplace of Babur, which witnessed a major jailbreak and rebellion some 3 years ago. President Islam Karimov, despite his name, has been a stalwart in cracking down on Islam, including going after anybody with a beard (our own RS would be in quicksand if he were to go down there, and not for the same reason that he would be if he went to Saudi Arabia). This country has been targeted by the Islamic Party of Turkestan precisely because it borders all other stans, Xinxiang and Afghanistan, and would be strategic for that reason, while being symbolic if the Jihadis could brand themselves as successors to Timur and Babur - a worthy association in and of itself.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 8, 2008 10:58 PM

Infidel Pride/Maxwell/Hugh...Thanks for expounding on these issues.

Champ...I liked your question to Fred about 'wild slutty womans'. A Naseem trademark.
He's not Naseem. I think he is a juvenile, probably about 16 or so. Became secular in two days, amazing.
It would take the most hard core muslim at least three days to become secular, and thats only if he spent two of them at a California nude beach.
Well, he did say he went to San Francisco, that's almost as good...:)

Posted by: duh_swami at August 8, 2008 11:39 PM

LOL, duh_swami! I agree, 2 days is definitely taking the Fast Track towards a secular lifestlye, whereas 3 days sounds more realistic.

Posted by: champ at August 9, 2008 12:08 AM

For Infidel Pride,

For all the good points and valid issues you raised, I would have to say my fundamental position still stands. Hugh is right that with Islamic leaderships one needs to be careful and pay attention to the social conditions among the people. That's what happened in the Mughal case I brought up. And while this is a short topic off topic disgression, I do know, as I said earlier, that the 3 *secular* Mughals, Akbar, Jahangir and Shahjahan were not perfect and passed objectioanble laws, such as apostasy laws, that it seems were passed mostly to appease the discontented islamic hardliners than anythinbg else. However, I brought them up because they were by an large, even Shahjahan, who became a lot more open minded and liberal in his later yeqars once he was influenced by Sufi heretics, paragons of secularism and tolerance compared to other muslim rulers and even non muslim rulers, in Western Europe and elsewhere, in their medieval times. That's why I brought them up as good examples of secular leaders overthrown by Islamic stealth takeovers.

But I digress at thsi point, the underlying point is, whether it was with the Mughals, the Khomeini revolution or the Islamization of Bosnia and Lebanon, it happens because people were being just abysmally clueless; all these cases should have been easily prevented. In Bosnia, as Bosnian Serbs as well as Muslim dissidents like Dzevad Galijasevic have pointed out, the radicalization and turning of Bosnian muslims into "traditional" i.e. militant hardliners, did not start in the Bosnian War but rather in the 1940s and intensified way back in the 70s, while Europe mostly ignored it. And like I said above, Civil War survivor Brigiite Gabriel has observed that the Islamist takeover of Lebanon ocurred because the Cristian majority was oblivious to the what was happening among the Palestinians and others they welcomed into the nation.

So you of course have to be careful, but that doesn't been having all muslims under vicous tyrants either. And you keep suggesting that Kazakhs are only held in check because of the Russsian population, but that doesn't really hold up. If they were trully intent on becoming jihadists, they could have still worked on it in more ways than one; for Muslims who are committed to jihadism, being 47 percent of the population is way more than enough for them to start. Recall that Nigeria is still half Christian as well, but that hasn't done shit to stop the Muslim half from installing Shariah law and turning the Northern states into miniature West African Saudi Arabias. And Bosnia, truth be known, is still a Christian majority state, but the Islamist leaders are still hard at work continuing the Islamization. So you need to have actual evidence on the social conditions of the poeple before arguing that Muslims deserve and need cruel dictatorships, and for the Kazakhs, there is none. Same for the other stans [except maybe, though I still don't know for sure, Tajikistan]. Unless there's actual evidence that Kyrgyzstan is becoming like Iran or the SUdan, or even like Malaysia and Egypt now that they are deomcratic. And simply not torturing and brutalizing Islamic groups like they did under the commies doesn't really count, though to be sure I certainly wouldn't mind if they did.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at August 9, 2008 12:15 AM

Champ,

You beat me to the "wild, slutty womens"! Darn, I'm always a day late and a dollar short...

hindenberg,

If you love it "over there" in America, Freddy, I doubt you're working on American citizenship. I think you have to be here, to do that.

"...but I want you to make me feel welcome..."

Why, of course you do! All Muslims want the najis Kuffar to make them feel welcome!

You want to be welcomed with public prayer space, prayer rooms provided by your employers (complete with footbaths), observance of Ramadan by everyone, to have your "feelings" coddled by the media (especially those rotten old cartoonists), and to live by sharia law--until you can enforce it on everybody.

You want us to welcome you by giving you jobs for which you are unqualified (and if we don't, you want to file lawsuits), you want us to welcome your ideology into our childrens' schools, you want to use our welfare systems to support your other three wives and all forty of your children.

You want us to welcome your rudeness. You want us to welcome your deliberate ignorance, you want us to welcome your "rights" to treat your women brutally, and you want the najis Kuffar women to lower their eyes when you glare at them with a look fit to kill. Me, I like to glare right back.

You want us to welcome your burqa-clad women, and to feel comfortable with them, though we can't see their faces, and though you would like to dress Kuffar women the same way. You want us to welcome you, even if you can't restrain your hatred of women enough not to rape and/or batter them (or, maybe that's your abject fear of women, coming out).

Freddy, I don't welcome you. I won't welcome you. I won't change my life to conform to your ideals, and I'll fight you every step of the way, when you try to impose that conformity on me.

Lan Astaslem!

Posted by: Abscedere at August 9, 2008 11:04 AM

"I am of German & Turkish descent."

....what kind of accent does Fred have? He loves the American blond "accent", although I do not know what he is talking about; but I am trying to imagine how a German & Turkish fellow might sound. Not good, that's for sure.

Posted by: champ at August 9, 2008 1:45 PM

@Abscedere

I do not know whether you are a woman or not...

My father said that the American women are some of the prettiest but dumbest women he had ever met. He said they always had spirt though...and judging from your response ...if he is right ...you are a woman.

My father said that the blondes thought that all middle-eastern men are into oil....and they just "threw themselves at him".

My father used to say to them that he was primarily a "dates exporter"...at which their face dropped...util they understood that he meant dating American women...LOL and they loved his chat up line...just couldn't get enough of him....after which his businsess really seemed to take off.

My dearest Abscedere...you and Mrs. Champion may be exceptions...but there are plenty of other American women in the sea...after all baracuddas and sharks are not everbody's favourite fish.

Fred

Posted by: hindenberg at August 9, 2008 1:54 PM

Fred, you will not last too long on Jihad Watch, as you are a loathsome piece of work. You father may have been a ladies man, although I sincerely doubt it, but you certainly are not.

There are several men on Jihad Watch who are about to teach you a few things about how to treat women, so enjoy the ride. Idiot. Don't say I didn't warn you!

Posted by: champ at August 9, 2008 2:53 PM

Wilkommen, Fred. Meinem Opa war deutscher Jude. Sorry, but my German is a lot worse than my CHinese. As for Turkish--I know only Rakhmat--and that's actually Uighur for "thank you".

I spent two years in Guangzhou, CHina, and bought my raisins and bread from Uighur migrants. I know quite a bit about their grievances, and can't say I'm completely out of sympathy with them. I have noted as well that some Uighur dissidents on the web have stood up for the Christians in central and eastern China, and for the Tibetan Buddhists as well.

I don't hold a candle for Islam, for I am a very fundamentalist Christian. However, I know maltreatment when I see it, and the UIghurs surely got it from the Chinese

Posted by: Kepha at August 9, 2008 3:17 PM

"My father said that the American women are some of the prettiest but dumbest women he had ever met."

Posted by: hindenberg at August 9, 2008 1:54 PM

Let me guess, Dad was the Turk, right? Just kidding, of course he was.

Physical beauty and natural intelligence is not exclusively monopolized by American women, or any particular geographic sect of women for that matter, but then again I can see why you would buy into this construct, for people who willfully subscribe to an ideology where the moral authority and source of emulation was an illiterate, child-raping murderer, their intelligence is outweighed by there greed and overall gullibility.

It is also easy to question the intelligence (or lackthereof) of someone who seeks to deny themselves honest pleasures in this world for a promise of rivers of non-intoxicating wines and endless sex with virgins in the hereafter.

Certainly, any woman who willfullly subscribes to Islam lacks a basic intellect, those who are forced to are to be pitied for sure.

I haven't quite figured out the reason behind the Muslim male obsession for virgins, hence the absurdly young age of traditional Islamic wives comparative to the West, but maybe it has something to do with the Muslim male's concern that if a wife had any prior "experience", especially if it was pleasurable, she might then be quite disappointed when discovering the well-documented impotence of the Muslim male, in general.

Any ideas?

Posted by: awake at August 9, 2008 4:57 PM

OMG, I LMAO, Awake!!! Masterfully done, and thank you for addressing this clown.

See, Fred, now that's what I'm talking about. Not all men share your warped attitudes towards women, and who better than a guy like Awake to attempt to adjust your funky attitudes, someone you could certainly learn from.

Posted by: champ at August 9, 2008 5:45 PM

"...after all baracuddas and sharks are not everbody's favourite fish."

posted by: Fred

Do not flatter yourself, Fred, as I would not compare you to a shark or even to a barracuda; but you are more like a deep sea bottom fish, like the Humpback Blackdevil fish, a name that better suites your not-so-charming personality.

Posted by: champ at August 9, 2008 6:43 PM

"I haven't quite figured out the reason behind the Muslim male obsession for virgins"

Awake,

The obsession comes from the fact that these men want to cause women pain, especially in a sexual context. They get off on that. The next best thing to a virgin is a woman they've battered and raped.

Maybe it has something to do with having to feel mastery over these creatures (women) with whom they have had no social interactions, in their sad, Qur'an memorizing, formative years.

The Muslim can feel his power over the woman, if she is a virgin. If she is a virgin, then anything he does to her has to be right, right?

The pleasure of causing her pain is the ultimate aphrodisiac--sometimes the only thing that stirs him, at all.

Of course Paradise is populated by virgins he can hurt every time he beds them.

Posted by: Abscedere at August 10, 2008 10:48 AM

Freddy,

If I get to choose what manner of fish I am, in your imaginary sea of dumb American women, I'll choose to be a baracuda, and thank you.

Don't forget to remove anything shiny from your person, when you enter the water.

Posted by: Abscedere at August 10, 2008 10:51 AM

My father said that the American women are some of the prettiest but dumbest women he had ever met. --hindenberg

That's funny considering that your Mohammedan father worshipped a pagan moon deity that doesn't exist! LOL! Mohammedan males - the dumbest people on the planet! Like you, "hindenberg." Now, go and whack your gross zebibah to a pagan idol, lol.

Posted by: darcy at August 10, 2008 4:11 PM

Oh, and btw, hindenberg, how do you like using the Internet that "Infidels" invented? As well as everything else invented by "Infidels" from Galileo's telescope on? Just think, hindenberg, you wouldn't have electricity in your dwelling without Infidels! Just who is your Mohammedan equivalent of Thomas Alva Edison? Right - no one.

Mohammedan 7th century Barbarians - the dumbest people around! Can't even invent anything! Just wait for the intelligent and creative Infidels to invent, and then you happily use! Like your cell phone, hindy? Infidels invented it!

You and your kind are parasite fish - the kind that attach on to those fish higher up in the food chain. Like the Sea Lamprey:

Direct Predation – Sea Lampreys attach themselves to other fish and suck on their blood and body fluids. They leave rounded scars on the fish. When they first arrived on the Great Lakes scene, they killed large numbers of predatory sport fish. People began to notice the lack of large fish and the scars on others. Lampreys preyed on whitefish, lake trout and chub populations in lakes Superior and Michigan. The Lamprey invasion made it hard on the people who fished the Great Lakes to make a living.

Ecological Impacts - One sea Lamprey can upset an ecosystem and food chain by eating an estimated 40 pounds of fish or more in its lifetime. Multiply that times 22,000 Lamprey found in just one river and you have a lot of dead fish.

*

The metaphor is so apt it's not funny.

Posted by: darcy at August 10, 2008 4:42 PM

Go get him, Darcy! Nice analogy on the fish, too, as that certainly describes hindenberg and his 'kind'. LOL!

Posted by: champ at August 10, 2008 4:50 PM

@darcy,

the muslim my dearest darcy is not like a parasite...it is like the lion...that rest in the heat...and the day....

and feeds at the time of his choosing ...a parasite however feeds all the time and I don't believe that is the right alalogy.

Everybody respects and fears the lion ...so it is with us...

see you in the fold soon my dear

Posted by: hindenberg at August 10, 2008 5:05 PM

You're not a lion, hindy, you're a parasite, just like the Sea Lamprey. Enjoy yourself using all of the Infidels' inventions, lol! Can't you parasites invent ANYTHING???

Looking forward to your realization that Jesus is God and allah is Not.

Posted by: darcy at August 10, 2008 5:18 PM

Here you go, hindy. Make sure to check out the pic of your sandstone idol:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

Posted by: darcy at August 10, 2008 5:30 PM

Fred -

What an insult to lions, and they are such noble creatures, whereas Islam is most definitely a parasite, and anyone who promotes or practices this evil (so-called) "religion" is too. Period, pal.

Islam is for losers.

Posted by: champ at August 10, 2008 6:26 PM

I agree, Darcy, as Fred will be in for a very rude awakening once he learns that allah is not the One True God, not unless he seeks Him before he dies!!

Jesus Christ is the One whom you need to seek, Fred, not after this false prophet, Muhammad, and his very REAL road to destruction. Wake up, Fred, you are following after a false prophet who promotes a false god; an "idol" to be exact, and everyone knows where the false prophets and their followers wind up - and it ain't heaven! Sadly.

Posted by: champ at August 10, 2008 6:33 PM

With this posting I address all new *non-Muslim* visitors to this site, and advise them to reflect carefully upon the numerous postings in this thread that have been made by our latest Mohammedan Boggart, 'hindenberg'. Observe the content. Observe the tone. Observe the thought-patterns.

Unfortunately for him, if he thought he could achieve anything here at jihadwatch, if he thought he could shock us, or frighten us, by his threats and boastings, he was as much mistaken as the young college 'gentlemen' who, some years ago, at a university that shall remain nameless, invaded an all- female residential college. They wore nothing but their academic gowns, imperfectly secured, and thought - as they galloped down a corridor with all the wobbly bits waving in the breeze - that the innocent maidens who emerged to find out what all the fuss was about, would blush, or scream, or faint. Alack and alas. That particular wing of the ladies' college housed anatomy-class-hardened third-year-medical students...who did, indeed, emerge from their rooms, but only to laugh in a most unmaidenly fashion, and point, and jeer unblushingly, and make clinically disparaging remarks. The raiders retired in some disarray with their tails between their legs.

The regular posters and readers here, after many 'anatomy of Islam' classes presided over by Professors Spencer, Fitzgerald, Raymond, et al, and having observed and dissected many examples of Mohammedan Troll rhetoric even more aggressive and repellant than hindenberg has managed, are merely snickering and pointing like those lady medical students.

And since we are speaking of anatomising Islam...all hindenberg has achieved is to expose its unappetising cadaver yet again, laid out on the slab smelling of formaldehyde, tag on toe.

While the regular posters sharpen up their scalpels, adjust their gloves, and check that their pens and notepads are ready and their Anatomy of Islam textbooks.

Oh non-Muslim newbie - click on Islam 101, or visit Ali Sina's Faithfreedom, or Ibn Warraq, or Bill Warner's 'Centre for the Study of Political Islam'. Study up a little. And then: return to hindenberg's postings and get out your scalpel and notebook (all diagrams to be correctly labelled when you're done).

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 11, 2008 3:47 AM