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A Jihad Watch reader went undercover to the Hizb ut Tahrir conference in London on the caliphate last Saturday, and kindly sends us this exclusive report about what was said there:
Khilafah The Need for Political UnityLondon Conference
Saturday 16th August 2008Hosted by
Hizb Ut Tahrir – Britain“The destruction of the Islamic Khilafah State over 80 years ago marked the beginning of dividing the Muslim World into countless nation states governed by a plethora of kings, dictators and western backed ‘democrats’. Today three major regions of the Muslim World are under occupation, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan. Oil and food crisis has pushed millions of people into starvation. Sectarian divisions are fuelled by occupying powers to further divide and weaken us.
The Muslim Ummah now needs a new political thinking and direction. It requires a new leadership that will unify the Umma and utilize her resources to address these countless problems. This one day conference will address the obligation of unifying our Umma under one leadership and discuss how political unity is the only practical way forward for the Muslim Ummah.” -- Hizb Ut Tahrir, Britain
Speakers
Sajjad Khan: Realising Political Unity
Dr. Mahmad Salim: The Shariah and Unity
Sister Sultana Parvin: Scientific and Educational Potential under the Khilafah State
Jamal Harwood: Economic Development through Unity and Khilafah policy
Dr. Imran Waheed: Pakistan Case Study – an application of Unity and Khilafah policyConference Attendance
2000-2500 people.The Troxy is located in the heart of East London, Commercial Road, E1. The overwhelming majority were from the Bangladeshi community. A high number of women attended, with the majority in attendance being male.
Islam Channel, the satellite media broadcasters, were present as well, for media coverage.
IntroductionSince 1924, the Muslim World saw the collapse of the Golden Age of Islam and the destruction of the Islamic State: the Uthman Khilafah I.E. the Ottoman Empire. Today, due to Islamic political parties such as Hizb Ut Tahrir, Muslims worldwide are supporting and working towards the re-establishment of this Islamic State.
Rallies, demonstrations, protests, and conferences take place in Turkey, Indonesia, Hebron, Kyrgyzstan, Al Quds (Jerusalem), Lebanon, Pakistan, Kenya, Bangladesh, Yemen, Ukraine, Australia and the United Kingdom. As part of a global campaign, Hizb Ut Tahrir are going from country to country announcing the need for political unity and establishing an Islamic State. Muslims in their thousands are responding to the call.
May this point be emphasized: Islam demands the political unity of the Ummah. The Muslim World united under one Islamic leadership and ruler.
This much-desired Islamic State is not some dream or vague imagination proclaimed just by Islamists, jihadists or extremists. No, this so-called Caliphate is a very real political and religious ideology long held in the hearts and minds of Muslims the world over. Indeed, since the days of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the yearning to return to the glory days of Islam never diminished.
British Muslims (despite their inconsistent condemnation and lack of public protests against acts of Islamic terrorism) state that Islam is a peaceful religion that seeks to live in harmony, not superiority with others. And so, as hard-working, law-abiding citizens of the respective countries in which they reside, they seek to be treated as such. They demand that they be recognized for their peaceful endeavors to encourage moderate Muslims to strengthen community cohesion. They want recognition for their achievements and contribution to society and should be supported. Instead, they feel victimised because of the global terrorism which has been carried out in the name of Islam. Thus we often hear complaints of ‘Islamophobic’ attitudes within the community, government and media, which British Muslims say they are continually confronting post 7/7. Yet is this a backlash or rightly placed frustration with the British Muslim community for their lack of conviction in condemning acts of terrorism in the name of Islam?
I’m sure that some truly condemn terrorism. However, there is a problem. If this is the view of the majority of peaceful Muslims in the UK and the West; then how on earth did we all end up in this so-called clash of civilizations? Why are there ongoing debates about whether or not Islam is a religion of peace, how to differentiate between the moderates and extremists, and how to fight this perpetual ‘War on Terror’? Who are we actually at war with? Who can we trust to help us in this war? What values are we defending and from whom, exactly? Could the likes of Osama Bin Laden indeed be correct when they state that the West has launched Crusades against Islam (i.e., Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and now perhaps Pakistan is next?). This is not a War on Terror, but a War on Islam -- they say.
Well, the Islamic Liberation party ‘Hizb Ut Tahrir’ certainly seems to think that the War on Terror is a War on Islam. And not only that, they are putting forth their case for the return of the Islamic State remarkably well, and ever so defiantly against the U.S. and U.K.
Their objective is to politically unify the Muslim World and its resources, to become the world’s one and only authentic Islamic State. A genuine and Sharia-governed Islamic State without Western designated ‘artificial’ borders, without corrupt dictators and non-Islamic leaderships and without the influence of Western imposed democracy, Imperialistic and Colonialist agendas. An Islamic Superpower ruled under one leader -- Islamically elected, of course.
One reason why the political case to unite the Muslim World and its resources is so appealing to Muslims is because this will also cause an affront to Western powers. And the following will prove it to be immediately obvious as to why.
Consider these facts:
• Around 70% World’s Oil Reserves – Owned by the Muslim World
• 55% World's Gas Reserves – Owned by the Muslim World
• 2 Trillion Dollars in Assets alone – Owned by the Muslim Gulf States, (6 Gulf nations alone). This is more than enough to wipe out the outstanding combined debt in the Muslim world.
• 4.7 Million in Military Reserves – Muslim World
• Massive Land Mass – 57 or so nations of the entire world are Muslim and/or Islamic
• Major Sea ports for trade etc are conveniently surrounded by the Muslim world (Mediterranean, Black Sea, Caspian, Red Sea, Persian Gulf, Arabian Sea)Also worth noting:
• Islam is reported to be the world’s fastest growing religion. Conversion rates are claimed to have increased significantly post 9/11. At present the number of Muslims around the globe is reportedly around 1.3 Billion. 1 out of 4 people in the world’s population is Muslim.
• The Financial World is looking to the Middle East for investments and developments as the new economic and financial headquarters, i.e., Dubai. While in the meantime the doom and gloom of the West’s dwindling economy and the dreaded credit crunch is grabbing headlines daily. I am beginning to be persuaded that the vision set out for the unity of the Muslim world is very real, and it needs to be addressed seriously by us in the West.At the conference I repeatedly heard speakers say something on the lines of “How can it be that we have allowed our lands Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, our people, our resources, our wealth and our very dignity to be eaten up and destroyed by the enemies of Islam, when we have such great potential among us? If only we unite as one Umma ...”
How eager they are for the defeat and collapse of the West. In anticipation they gather to discuss, plan and put forth their proposals to revive the Golden Age of Islam: The return of the Khilafah.
What a paradox. At one stage we have the Shia Muslim leader of the Iranian regime, Mr. Ahmadinejad, anticipating the return of the Imam Mahdi, Shia Islam’s long awaited Messiah figure. And then we have this call from primarily Sunni Muslims for the re-establishment of the Khilafah that is governed by an Islamic Leader; the Imam Caliph. Perhaps they are in cahoots. Nevertheless, a resentment and humiliation remains deep within the minds of Muslims at the ‘Allies offensive’ that brought down the collapse of the last Khalifah. In bitter memory of this crucial event in world history, Hizb Ut Tahrir vow to take back all that was stolen from them. And they will do so, by any means, despite the tailored peaceful political rhetoric that is used to back up the vision.
Trying to remain within the boundary of various incitement to religious hatred laws perhaps, Hizb Ut Tahrir have once again carefully scripted their words to get their point across and almost so eloquently manage to display authority and political clout to gain British supporters in favour of their arrogant, totalitarian and supremacist ideology.
It is a question of how long it will take to make this vision a reality. So far, this movement seems to have rallied enough support to start something serious. Hizb Ut Tahrir proclaim that they have members in their millions worldwide, yet will not disclose their exact numbers. Surely a political party would know the number of members it has? Despite the large crowds that entered the Troxy in London, I estimated that at least 2000-2500 turned up. The choice of this venue surprised me, as it didn’t have the capacity to hold any more than 3000. Perhaps this was due to the party aiming at gathering the local Bangladeshi community, who heavily populate the East London’s Aldgate East and Whitechapel. From what I saw at the conference of the kind of fervour and enthusiasm amongst the crowds, it doesn’t take much persuading for young impressionable Muslims to become passionate about the cause for Political Islam. They are easily swayed to think that the British government is their enemy, not just for supporting the Iraq war but for imposing democracy there. Democracy is non-Islamic. I know that many people may disagree with me saying this. But any good Muslim who is living according to Islam’s goals will never choose loyalty to their citizenship over loyalty to Islam.
That should end the ‘are you British or Muslim first?’ debate there.
Conference Speakers
Session 1: Unity the only path to progress
Sajjad Khan – Chief Political Advisor HT Britain: Realising political unity
There is a lack of global unity in the Muslim World. 80 years on, after the end of the Uthman Khilafah, then began political divisions. A reflection on the past, and reminiscing the days of the Islamic Empire. The Muslim World is in a mess due to corrupt leadership, dictatorships and Western interference.
Quoting David Milliband and John McCain in their condemnation of the recent Russian military offensive in Georgia -- 'this is no longer the 19th Century, when States invade other States’ -- Implying how preposterous a statement to make after the U.S led invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
After discussing the impressive capacity of wealth, oil, and resources available in the Muslim World, Sajjad goes on to say how the West is an aging population, whereas in the Muslim World is a young and fast growing population. A young and vibrant military capability is attainable. The Muslim World has the money and the manpower to develop and build our own military; we need not buy from the West. We must establish our own Islamic Military, for the benefit and protection of the Umma. Some skeptics talk of the dated and medieval system of the Khilafah. What they don’t realize that it is separate individual states that are dated and medieval in the 21st Century. Because all the worlds problems are transnational, not individual. Therefore, the need for a Transnational state is the solution to the world’s problems. The Khilafah will be a Transnational Islamic State, without the discriminatory artificial borders that separate the Muslim World rather than unite it.
The Khilafah will not differentiate between Shia and Sunni, because the Islam that prophet Mohammed and the Sunna followed will unite us. No persecution, no force shall be imposed upon anyone within the Islamic State. When the Jews were being persecuted during the Spanish Inquisitions, they fled to the Ottoman Empire and found a safe haven. This is what the Islamic State was like.
So do not allow yourselves to be intimidated, afraid or deterred from supporting the re-establishment of the Khilafah. The West will use these scare tactics to put the Umma off and preventing this vision to be accomplished, in the name of fighting this so called War on Terror.
Dr. Mahmad Salim: The Shariah and Unity
Quoting extensively from the Quran and Hadith, Dr. Mahmad puts forth the Islamic obligation for Muslims around the globe to support this vision for the re-establishment of the Islamic State.
No longer must Muslims unite on the basis of or identify themselves as belonging to any nationality, but should unite only as Muslims, as part of the Ummah. National or patriotic feelings are unIslamic. In this manner, you will be stronger together as one Umma. Do not be divided over nationality. The enemies of Islam are quick to supply weapons to corrupt leaders in the Muslim World, which causes divisions between nations against nations. Our resources should be plundered by our enemies.
Recall the Shahada (Muslim confession of faith), and stand by it in your actions. Why should we fight amongst ourselves, when we should be united to fight together against our enemies?
When the Khilafah comes, the Imam will be responsible for the protection of the people of the Umma, and including the non-Muslims who are also under the State. The prophet Mohammed demanded political unity for the Umma; we cannot go against this command.
Sister Sultana Parvin: Scientific and Educational potential under the Khilafah State
Does the Organization of the Islamic Conference represent the Umma? No. They have their own agendas. We have nothing to help ourselves. We are dependent on others, mostly. How then are we going to get the courage and enthusiasm to unite? Our own Muslim governments don’t educate us. They can’t even feed us, and the protection of their own people is disgraceful.
There was once a place of excellence in the past, in our Islamic history. A time where women were treated equally, they were educated. There was a high level of science and education, and remarkable inventions and developments were achieved. Now our doctors, around 500,000 from around the Muslim World, are leaving their homelands to come here to the West to find better salaries, respect, and recognition of their hard work. Their own governments have failed them. There is no mark of achievement in the Muslim World now, so they come to the West. We have the resources, yet the wrong governments. We can regain what was lost, if only we unite together. Super status belongs to Islam, if we make it happen.
Session 2: Unity – The practical path
Jamaal Harwood: Economic Development through Unity and Khilafah policy
With the aid of many images, maps and diagrams, Jamaal Harwood opens his presentation. The Umayyad Khilafah was strong and powerful. Jamaal quotes Bernard Lewis, the famous historian regarding this empire, calling it “the greatest economic power the world has ever seen”.
The Muslim World controls some of the world’s most strategic water ways, Oil and Gas reserves, minerals etc……..Yet with all this wealth, poverty remains high in the Muslim World. Our resources are being wasted and exploited by the greed of the nations especially the West. This is a case of chronic mis-management through corruption and bad leaders in the Muslim World.
Despite the Muslim World having more enough wealth to wipe out the debt owed by Muslim nations, it is not being done. The need for political unity is urgent and necessary. Our lands are fertile for agricultural produce, rich in oil wealth, abundant in minerals. The Khilafah will look to reform:
1. Food Security – Industrialisation
2. Land Reforms
3. Sharing Resources (land, manpower, wealth)The Khilafah will have an independent policy, not 57 separate policies. To distribute the wealth of our lands fairly and justly. It is the opposite of Capitalism, which has failed and is on a downward spiral.
The Khilafah will not recognize the Confederation of Nations, be it the United Nations, The EU, the OIC etc. There is only one State, the Islamic State. One Khilafah.
Imran Waheed – Chief Media Advisor: Pakistan Case Study. An application of unity and Khilafah policy
Imran begins his talk using Pakistan as a prime example of a so-called Islamic nation that has suffered due to the lack of and the need for the Khilafah State.
The 3rd of March 1924 was the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It resulted in the sudden carving up of lands by the Imperialists and Colonialists, and thus began the era of division amongst Muslims. Separate, individual nations formed, causing sectarianism and disunity in the Muslim World. Pakistan was one such case. However, Hizb Ut Tahrir is working actively in Pakistan, and the people are demanding the return of the Khilafah.
There is a battle between Democracy and Dictatorship; both are opposed to the command of the prophet Mohammed. Each side of this battle in the Pakistani political scene is really fighting for their own political gains. We have heard of the corruption of Bhutto, Sharif and Musharraf. The popularity ratings for Musharraf are astonishing in the West. Shimon Peres has been quoted saying that he prays for Musharraf everyday (at which point the crowd begin to curse, bemoan and slander Israel).
The security service in Pakistan only works for America’s War on Terror. It has no care for its own people or for the implementation of Islam. Pakistan being a nuclear nation, it has become an occupying ground for the West, with the U.S setting up their bases all over the land. Pakistan allowed the U.S to attack Afghanistan because it gave them free passage. Now watch and see how Pakistan becomes the next U.S. target.
This is what happens due to the lack of the Islamic State. When the Khilafah returns, there will be a uniting of Muslim lands, without borders in Pakistan, Afghanistan and India. No more occupation of our lands. We will stand up against U.S. and Britain. (Takbir, Allah Hu Akbar)
An opinion poll recently carried out by the University of Maryland, 74% of Pakistanis support the establishment of a unified Khilafah in the Muslim World. The establishment of such an entity is therefore not a question of if, but when.
Posted by Robert at August 19, 2008 6:06 PM
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Marx and Hitler offered the world blueprints of their respective plans for global domination. Many didn't take them seriously; millions eventually perished in the pursuit of those plans.
Hizb ut Tahrir may or may not become a significant conduit for the rebirth of the Caliphate. If not, another movement will usurp the role. Either way, the blueprint is in the public domain.
Is the world paying attention?
Posted by: Cornelius![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at August 19, 2008 6:21 PM
Is the world paying attention?
Posted by: Cornelius at August 19, 2008 6:21 PM
No. It won't pay attention until people are already in the ovens. And the world will proclaim "We didn't know!"
But, oh yes they did, the PC Cowards.
Posted by: darcy at August 19, 2008 6:28 PM
I wonder what the Sowdi Barbarians will have to say when they are told to give up the "Land of the the Two Holy (ack, gag!) Places"?
Or the fabulously rich sheiks in charge of Abu Dabi, Dubai and Manama?
So many questions...so many obstacles.
Great article. Thanks!
at August 19, 2008 6:31 PM
If a man tells you he is going to kill you, believe him.
Posted by: MP at August 19, 2008 7:18 PM
If a man tells you he is going to kill you, believe him.
Posted by: MP at August 19, 2008 7:18 PM
As Ibn Warraq says, "What is it about "Kill the Infidels" you don't understand?"
Posted by: darcy at August 19, 2008 7:21 PM
If you think Hizb-ut-tahrir blueprint for the future looks pretty crazy, take a look at the geo-political plans of a Pakistani political adviser to Jamaat - e-Islami:
What Islam Wants: Islam's Diabolical Plan According to Pakistan's Jamat-e-Islami Party
http://www.islam-watch.org/JihadiUmmah/What-Islam-Wants-Nabiullah-Khan.htm
although admittedly his plans are limited, in the short term, to a mere swathe of territory including central Asia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Burma: the rest of the world will comelater. Among other things the local populations will be terrorised into conversion to Islam and forced to use Arabic as their everyday speech.
Posted by: wallyUK at August 19, 2008 7:24 PM
What an ahistorical fantasy! Don't these folks understand what a stagnant, rotting corpse the Ottoman Empire was during its long twilight? Or what an empty halucination PanIslamicism is? They have an true Islamic mindset, all right--just establish the Caliphate, and He Will Come! Sheepish balderdash.
Posted by: John C at August 19, 2008 8:12 PM
What an ahistorical fantasy! Don't these folks understand what a stagnant, rotting corpse the Ottoman Empire was during its long twilight? Or what an empty halucination PanIslamicism is? They have a true Islamic mindset, all right--just establish the Caliphate, and He Will Come! Sheepish balderdash.
Posted by: John C at August 19, 2008 8:13 PM
I have believed for many years that this war is going to become much, much larger before the main issues are decided. Far too many people will be impacted. History has shown that people will fight against cultural change like this. I use the example of 'good Germans' and 'good southerners' who fought and died for evil. Because their way of life was threatened. Yet with global interaction, this type of threat to the Muslim world is inevitable.
Posted by: joe-six-pack at August 19, 2008 8:33 PM
Typical. These Muslims just skipped right over question #1 and barreled ahead anyway didn't they? Must be cowards to skip that all important Question #1: Does Allah exist as described outside the claims of the Qur'an?
After nearly 15 centuries, do any of them have the answer yet? Can't be that hard to quantify.
Must be an ego/control sort of thing to be so sure that something exists and implement a life system based on it...without any concern of objective proof.
Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 19, 2008 9:20 PM
OT,
WE all know what a corrupted institution Wikipedia is, but check out this entry on Brigitte Gabriel...
"She has also accused CAIR of failing to condemn extremism,radical Islam and terrorism, which in her opinion is necessary for the elimination of extremism and the discovery of a more moderate, secular approach to Islam. It is important to note that CAIR have repeatedly and unequivocally condemned extremism according to their website."
No mention of CAIR's consistent refusal to condemn by name the terrorism of Hezbollah or Hamas.
Meanwhile, check out the "quote" section...looks like a bizarre edit has been applied to a quote in which - instead of denouncing Islam as she obviously intended - she seems to be validating it. What utter bullshit!
at August 19, 2008 9:23 PM
The article is an exercise in delusion. So many examples, from start to finish it is simply assumptions followed by lies, and topped off with self deception.
I shall not bother fiddling with all the twaddle exposed but just hit the opening statement. I do so because once the starting point is demolished there is no way from there.
The opening states, "“The destruction of the Islamic Khilafah State over 80 years ago marked the beginning of dividing the Muslim World into countless nation states governed by a plethora of kings, dictators and western backed ‘democrats"
The end of the Islamic othman caliphate did not mark the beginning of division, it merely formalized the already existing divisions. The Othman empire at that time was exhausted, it was moribund, it was propped up by western powers who chose to use it as a counterweight in the great diplomatic games of the imperial age.
Divisions had already existed, witness the differing caliphates, the wars to establish hegemony among the warring tribes. The policies of arabization, the tribalisms, the shia-sunni split.
The caliphate had many different departments, governing many differing tribes, in other words even during the caliphate it was divided. There were areas that were prosperous, others that were impoverished. Some areas were badly managed some were milked of their natural wealth, the main beneficiary of the caliphates were by and far the caliphs and their few favorites.
That these obvious implications are so studiously denied by the conference just shows mankinds infinite capacity for self delusion.
Posted by: stickman at August 19, 2008 9:27 PM
Don't blame you, don't blame me, blame that feller behind the tree!
These guys will blame anyone and anything except the real reason all these former Ottoman Empire nation states, even with all their natural resources and a vast transfer of wealth from the West, are failing: Islam. As Winston Churchill so rightly observed, "No stronger retrograde force exists in the world."
Posted by: George Mc. at August 19, 2008 9:33 PM
It's bad for Muslims to lie to kufirs and dhimmis............
It's worse when they lie to themselves.
Posted by: tanstaafl at August 19, 2008 9:45 PM
I think this is good news, in that it will work out to our advantage in the long term. They are sticking their necks out too soon. It's not hard to read between the lines, as far as what was said at, and intended by, this conference. They clearly want to revive the old ways (which worked out so well for them in the past). Their animosity towards the West is transparent. I didn't know envy was an Islamic virtue?
I find seveal of their statements to be downright laughable. The greatest economic power the world has ever known? I think the economic, cultural, and political power of, first the British Empire, and later the American Republic speaks for itself. There is a reason why the world follows our model and not the Islamic.
The idea of Jews fleeing Christendom for the "tolerance" of the Ottoman Empire is just sad. More people were killed on September 11th, 2001 than were killed during the Spanish Inquisition, which lasted for 356 years. They really do live in a make-believe world, don't they?
They plead for a transnational solution to their problems and then turn around and say they will not recognize any other transnational body, be it the EU or the UN. There is to be only one state, an Islamic state. Do they think we were born yesterday?
It is the responsibility of the Caliph to wage jihad on behalf of Allah here on Earth. There is no dispute within Islam on this matter. I can remember certain Islamic clerics in the past berating bin Laden for what he was saying and doing as he did not have "the authority of a Caliph". Maybe now he will get that honour, he certainly is popular enough in the Islamic world. Or maybe that honour will go to the psychotic Iranian dwarf?
They are sticking their necks out too soon. When it comes to war what Westerners have always sought out is decisive battle; a war of brutal annihilation out in the open against enemies of the West. This is why the West has won, as Victor Davis Hanson would say. Pearl Harbour was the last time a Western power was defeated on Western soil by a non-Western power. That battle sure worked out well for the Japanese fascists in the end, didn't it?
Up until finding decisive battle with the cowardly and lustful mujahideen has been downright difficult, if not impossible. A centralized Islamist leadership bent on waging jihad in the House of War changes everything. Let them build their Islamic military. It will be sent to oblivion shortly thereafter.
Posted by: TheDiggler at August 19, 2008 9:49 PM
Here is C S Forester, best known as the author of the 'Hornblower' series, summing up, in 'The Barbary Pirates' (written for intelligent early teens), the shortcomings of all sharia-based systems of 'government'.
"The homelands of these people - the four North African countries of Morocco, Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli - were known as the Barbary States.
"They were parts of the vast Mohammedan Empire which at one time had threatened to conquer the whole world.
"Later, this empire fell to pieces of its own weight, largely because it had never been able to build any system of government except a simple tyranny".
{Let's stop a moment and reflect on that. 'it [Mohammedanism, the Empire of Islam, had never been able to build any system of government except a simple tyranny". And that, my friends, is the truth, right there. The proof? - oh, inter alia, Gaddafi, the House of Saud, Saddam Hussein, Ayatollah Khomeini, Assad, Nasser, Mubarak...examine closely any part of the Mohammedan world you might care to name, at any time from the 7th century onward, and that is what you find. Tyrannies of all kinds, great and small.}
Now, let's go back to Forester.
"The Arab Mohammedan conquest of North Africa had not been very successful. Local generals, and governors, and religious leaders managed to set themselves up as independent. At the same time they posed as dutiful subjects of the central government at Constantinople. but their rulers did not have an easy life, even if they lived in the midst of great wealth and unlimited power.
"The Dey or Bey, Pasha or Emperor, whatever the local ruler called himself, lived only as long as he could remain more powerful than his rivals and enemies. {Saddam Hussein, anyone? - dda}
"The moment his grasp weakened, he could expect to be strangled, and to be succeeded by someone else eager to take his place. {Sounds like an accurate description of every last one of the Caliphs and every last one of the Mogul Emperors, too - dda}.
"The truth was that a large part of the people were no more loyal to their rulers than their rulers were to Constantinople.
"They paid taxes only when the ruler was strong enough to compel them; and they were often hostile and independent under their own chiefs." {cf. Afghanistan, Somalia, Gaza? - dda{
There is more, on piracy and slaving and industrial-scale kidnapping for the mafia-style extortion of 'protection' money and ransom money from non-Muslim neighbours, but I think Forester has made his point.
A Carlebach (Ma'ariv, October 7 1955) has been quoted here many times over the past couple of months, but I'll cite just the portion that chimes exactly with Forester's observation about Islam's inability to nurture any form of government other than "simple tyranny":
"These Arab Islamic countries do not suffer from poverty, or disease, or illiteracy, or exploitation; they only suffer from the worst of all plagues: Islam.
"Wherever Islamic psychology rules, there is the inevitable rule of despotism and criminal aggression."
It only needs a slight rewording - "These Islamic countries...", or perhaps, "These Arabised Islamic countries..." - in order to apply to the entire Islamosphere.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 19, 2008 9:52 PM
V S Naipaul's "Among the Believers" and 'Beyond Belief" are recommended, at this point, to all concerned kafir who have just come on board.
They are easy to get hold of - nice cheap paperback, beautifully written, and provide four clinical case histories of that downward spiral into the void that happens when societies attempt to become more and more purely Islamic.
Some quotes that bear on the present discussion.
From 'Among the Believers' (page nos are from the 2001 paperback reprint of the 1981 edition):
p. 167.
“No religion is more worldly than Islam. *In spite of its political incapacity* {my emphasis added - dda}, no religion keeps men’s eyes more fixed on the way the world is run.”
p. 215.
...passion without a constructive programme. The materialist world is to be pulled down first, the Islamic state will come later – as in Iran, as in Pakistan."
p. 270, on the attitude of the purist Muslims in Malaysia:
‘Malaysia…vanished, became an abstraction itself, a land of pure belief, of total submission to allah. In that submission everything was solved.”
p. 331:
“This late 20th century Islam appeared to raise political issues.
"But it had the flaw of its origins – the flaw that ran right through Islamic history: to the political issues it raised, it offered no political or practical solution. It offered only the faith. It offered only the prophet, who would settle everything – but who had ceased to exist.
"This political Islam was rage, anarchy”.
The societies observed by Naipaul in the late 1970s and then again in the 1990s comprise: Iran; Pakistan; Malaysia; and Indonesia.
Iran goes downhill fastest.
All Australians should read 'Among the Believers' and pay particular attention to the chapters on Indonesia.
Here is the single most important passage for Australians to bear in mind, the one that reveals that we are right in the crosshairs of those who dream of a Caliphate.
In a Muslim school or pesantren (the Indonesian version of a madrasa) in Pabelan in Java, Indonesia, sometime during the 1970s, Naipaul records the following exchange, initiated after someone observed, of one of the students, ‘He’s from Timor’.
“Prasojo was interested. ‘Which one?’ {i.e., from East or West Timor}.
‘Timor’, said Taufiq, and laughed. ‘Our newest colony. Soon we’ll be colonizing Australia.’
Prasojo said, ‘You mustn’t say those things’.”
From VS NAIPAUL, Among the Believers: An Islamic Journey, 1981; 2001 paperback edition, p. 311.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 19, 2008 10:06 PM
Oh, the irony of Western Free Speech. It permits one to call for the destruction of the very system that allows such speech to exist in the first place.
The freedom to call for the end of freedom.
Posted by: Xero G at August 19, 2008 10:14 PM
Yet another illustration of how paranoia and totalitarian thinking go hand in hand. Now, while all paranoids are not totalitarians, virtually all totalitarians are paranoids. The Islamic faith, the ultimate example of spiritual totalitarianism, in no way disproves this hypothesis. After all, isn't it the case that Muslims tend to see enemies everywhere (even including Danish cartoonists)?
Posted by: Wellington at August 19, 2008 10:22 PM
Back in my party days, my group would say that these guys are on some "real smoke."
I used to work with a graduate of the war college. He said that when anyone started talking about changing the boundaries of a country, everyone in command/control listens.
We all know of the wealth that the muslim world shares with the poorer muslim nations. Well don't we? This attitude would be changed under some colective Caliphate? Yes if the boundaries of the countries were changed. Not much chance of that.
Collective socalism eats up the natural resources within its controls or boundaries. Thus the former socialist states have some of the worst enviromental history since man kept records. The King of Saudi Arabia understands that after the oil runs out his nation will be eating the sand and rocks because it is the populations belief in islam that keeps them from innovation and development. He's trying to put together a university there to help prevent it however he's going to be coming up against islam also. Good luck King!
Like I said, "blowing smoke."
Posted by: credit man at August 19, 2008 11:05 PM
CREDIT MAN: "The King of Saudi Arabia understands that after the oil runs out his nation will be eating the sand and rocks because it is the populations belief in islam that keeps them from innovation and development. He's trying to put together a university there to help prevent it however he's going to be coming up against islam also."
Actually, the principle source of wealth to be accrued by the Saudis (not to mention the Qatarese and the UAE) after their oil and natural gas deposits are depleted will be their extensive holdings in American and European companies and real estate.
Posted by: Cornelius at August 19, 2008 11:41 PM
dumbledoresarmy,
Thanks for digging up all those interesting quotations. I always enjoy your posts.
Posted by: Stendec at August 20, 2008 12:21 AM
I guess they forget that the "Golden Age" of Islam was a result of conquest of civilizations more advanced than their own, as well as dhimmis working for the tyrant in power. Even now they can't get oil from the ground without their kafirs. They send their children to western universities why? Slavery and tyranny was the basis of their "Golden Age".
Posted by: lafn at August 20, 2008 1:05 AM
Thanks for your important initiative. The problem is worse than you all think. How many of you know that in Sep. 2006 in Israel the radical Raad Salah, the leader of the Islamic Movement - Northern Wing in Israel had 50,000 (!) participants in a rally calling for the re-establishment of the Caliphate in Jerusalem
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/763217.html
Long Live (?) free speech in Israel!
at August 20, 2008 1:22 AM
"It's bad for Muslims to lie to kufirs and dhimmis............
It's worse when they lie to themselves."
Posted by: tanstaafl
Islam cannot exist without lying to kufirs and dhimmis.
But the most ESSENTIAL lies of all, are the lies Muslims tell each other – these they will cling to, like a drowning man struggles for his last gasp of life.
at August 20, 2008 2:31 AM
As Ibn Warraq once replied to Tariq Ramadan
Excerpt from Ibn's words to Tariq; this says it all;
..........A culture that gave the world the novel; the music of Mozart, Beethoven, and Schubert; and the paintings of Michelangelo, da Vinci, and Rembrandt does not need lessons from societies whose idea of heaven, peopled with female virgins, resembles a cosmic brothel.
Nor does the West need lectures on the superior virtue of societies in which women are kept in subjection under sharia, endure genital mutilation, are stoned to death for alleged adultery, and are married off against their will at the age of nine; ........societies that deny the rights of supposedly lower castes; societies that execute homosexuals and apostates........ The West has no use for sanctimonious homilies from societies that cannot provide clean drinking water or sewage systems, that make no provisions for the handicapped, and that leave 40 to 50 percent of their citizens illiterate. ...............
the entire article can be found at;
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_snd-west.html
at August 20, 2008 3:47 AM
Gabrielle
that rejoinder you posted, from Ibn Warraq to Tariq Ramadan - wow-eee!
What I would have given to see the look on TR's face when *that* shot slammed home!
Go Warraq!
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 20, 2008 5:26 AM
Nice. Really nice. Here we have a group of 2000 - 2500 Muslims at a conference, they clearly state their intentions and observations which leave absolutely no doubt where they are going and what they intend to do, and the idiots (this is a compliment) that call themselves MSM, don't see the importance of reporting on it.
That is real nice, MSM, real nice, keep up the good work (against humanity).
Posted by: Spot on at August 20, 2008 7:42 AM
Having read the reported meeting by Hizb Ut Tahrir I feel much more secure in the knowledge that they have clearly stated their aspiration to form a global Hailafah, which is something we all knew was their agenda, but the fact that they are having trouble uniting the Muslim world in order to forefill this dream is comforting.
Not only are they dis-united, Sister Sultana Parvin stated that 'Muslim governments don't educate and can't feed us or protect their own people'.
While Israel is able to feed her own people and send produce to supermarkets in europe, Palestine has been receiving aid from the West for as long as I can remember.
Jamaal Harwood said 'resources are being wasted and there is chronic mismanagement through corruption and bad leaders in the Muslim world'.
It is clear Hizb Ut Tahrir have a mountain to climb to unite the Muslim world and there is distinct possibility it will never be achieved. This is no reason, however for the West to relax on this news. We must form alliances with other religions such as Hindus and Seikhs. Members of both sects have good reason to despise Muslims. On their web site Hindus advise that a Muslim Caliphate is looming in the West and that they will fight to the death to preserve their religion. Jihadwatch does an excellent job in keeping us informed and we should spread the word as wide as possible. Finally we should continue to exercise our democractic rights and lobby MPs until we get someone in government who will listen. Don't be fobbed off with political correctness.
There is every chance that Islam will crumble from within and will never unite or become a global threat. Lets hope so.
Posted by: Tommo
at August 20, 2008 9:58 AM
Hizb ut Tahrir are laughing their socks off all over the world, as the dhimmified indigenous peoples continue to give them free rein to realise their dream... talk about partners in our own demise......
I used to believe they should be proscribed in the UK, but it'll never happen . It's not just a case of Hizb using our own democratic laws against us, because of the free thinking liberal groups/think tanks etc pushing for free speech, multiculturalism, inclusivity (many of these groups were Jewish-led, incidentally) - we've been well and truly hoisted by our own petard. When will we learn to stop meddling?
The Chief Rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, had the courage to buck the trend and come out against mistakes made by our own people. Some time ago he said that the multiculturalism nightmare started with us Jews. The only problem (and this is what he didn't say) was that while we were clamouring for all this entitlement, we took our eyes off the ball and in our arrogance never acknowledged other people not only were entitled to these rights, but could use them against us. How right he was......
Posted by: Matzpun at August 20, 2008 12:11 PM
Hizb ut Tahrir conference in London call for a world Caliphate is their desperate plea for the “End of Days”, where the present age of prophecy will come to an end. In the Wiki entry for “End Times” it says:
Islam gives very clear guidelines to its followers regarding the end of times. There are various signs (as many as up to 100) given in the Sunnah and Quran for the coming of Judgment Day. These signs can be divided into two parts, minor and major. The major signs include the coming of an Antichrist, Imam Mahdi and then Prophet Jesus (who will combine forces of good against evil), the blowing of Trumpet and the minor signs will precede them. For a list of all signs of coming of Judgment day in Islam, visit [1] Islamic eschatology is concerned with the Qiyamah (end of the world; Last Judgment) and the final judgment of humanity. Eschatology relates to one of the six articles of faith (aqidah) of Islam. Like the other Abrahamic religions, Islam teaches the bodily resurrection of the dead, the fulfillment of a divine plan for creation, and the immortality of the human soul; the righteous are rewarded with the pleasures of Jannah (Heaven), while the unrighteous are punished in Jahannam (Hell). A significant fraction of the Quran deals with these beliefs, with many hadith elaborating on the themes and details. Islamic apocalyptic literature describing the Armageddon is often known as fitna (a test) and malahim (or ghayba in the shi'ite tradition).
What they are really saying is that their “age of Islam” is quickly coming to an end, and depending upon the Sunni vs. Shia versions, there will be ‘signs’ of the fulfillment of their divine plan with the Imam Mahdi’s magical reappearance, trailed by Jesus in tow, for the final “Judgment day in Islam”. This is their death knell, and at some subliminal level they already see their impending doom. So the call for a world Caliphate is really the end of their times. The world is watching with narrow eyes, it's their end of times.
For more ‘signs’ expected by these superstitious people, read it at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_times#Islam
My favorite is the “sun will rise in the west”... go figure.
at August 20, 2008 3:06 PM
Re: Battle_of_Tours
A true believer might believe that the End Times might need some help, in the way that a chain reaction starts off from the liberation of neutrons from a small number of atoms, to build up to the required self sustaining reaction. For them, making some of them true might lead to others being made true too. Many of the major signs listed in the wikipedia reference could be achieved with atomic weapons:
• The three great sinkings of the earth
Subterranean atomic blast creating a cavity where the overlying structures just drop into the hole. A larger version of what was done with the Barnes Wallis' Grand Slam bombs in WW2. The only issue is delivery to the right point, but already solved by major industrial military nations. A 'great' sinking would depend on the 'greatness' of the structure above it to differentiate it from a 'minor' sinking.
• The appearance of smoke in the sky
Achievable with nuclear weapons. Or by the destruction of the well heads in the same way that was done during the 1991 Gulf War.
• The rising of the sun in the west
Fission of sun = Fission of nuclear bomb. The fireball rising above a nuclear blast(s) "In the West" might be taken to be one of the major signs.
• The fire which brings the people together
If nuclear weapons are used against mussulmen or their infrastructures, it is almost sure to unite the rest of the ummah. To what extent they will be brought together and what that will achieve is the big question.
• A wind that will take the souls of all Muslims and only leave infidels on Earth.
Again, nuclear warfare in the ME could be interpreted as the wind that takes the souls of (Arab) mussulmen and leaves the infidels elsewhere. The fact that most mussulmen are not arab might be ignored given that the arabs are the "best of the best" and allah's supposed chosen people. With no arabs to lead the rest of the mussulmen, how could Allah's will be achieved?
I don't buy into the A + B + C -> triggers D + E + F = fulfillment of prophesy, but I don't have to. It only takes someone who does believe that nuclear destruction will fulfill their deity's wishes and plans, and for that someone to have then have the means and opportunity to make that happen.
Posted by: Gharkad at August 20, 2008 9:21 PM
Islam has always been against having an "Islamic Pope" to avoid centralisation
Rather, the philosophy is to have many small areas under the control of local clerics.
Under this philosophy they can never unite.
at August 20, 2008 9:33 PM
I don't buy into the A + B + C -> triggers D + E + F = fulfillment of prophesy, but I don't have to. It only takes someone who does believe that nuclear destruction will fulfill their deity's wishes and plans, and for that someone to have then have the means and opportunity to make that happen.
Posted by: Gharkad
Exactly. Reality doesn't have to connect with mythology in the minds of the 'true believers' because any sign they want to find to justify their superstitious beliefs is valid in their ignorant outlook on the world. So nuclear disaster would signal to them what they want to believe, even "the sun rising in the west" by their twisted logic, if nukes go off in the west. In their ugly nighmarish dreams it all makes sense to them and their sense of impending doom.
Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at August 21, 2008 10:08 AM
"The Muslim World is in a mess due to corrupt leadership, dictatorships and Western interference."
Islamic nations are a mess because its a social system founded by a theaf. Islam does not respect hard work or personal rights. A great society is great peoply working proactivly to better themselves and others. Islam is a mental cripling.
at August 21, 2008 11:31 AM
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